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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

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1 hour ago, sonosong said:

He said that after Zhiwei wondered how come it's just now that she's seeing a "sliver of light in his heart." I took it to mean that he chose to keep his true and personal feelings hidden. I remember that, previously, Zhiwei didn't understand why he did certain things before and blamed him for it, even though Xin Ziyan tried convincing her otherwise. Ning Yi does things that may seem to be cruel to her (and to us), but he isn't a cruel person, and he wasn't hurting people because he was lusting after the throne either. He was defending himself, and letting people know that they can't keep undermining and humiliating him. This line of thought was supported by Chen Kun's interview in the BTS on how he chose to portray his character.


I'm not 100% on this either. I hope someone else has more thoughts on it because I'd like to know as well.

Hmm... the thing is, he was also pertaining to the time when Princess Shaoning tried to kill them, on that scene when he ended up falling on top of her. He asked, "Remember that day in Wei residence" or something like that. I thought that he was placing that on the same context as the light that Zhiwei found inside him... so I took it to say that he meant, "there are things that can 'bloom' only when there is darkness". But if I take it separately from Zhiwei's earlier comments, he could have also meant to say "whatever happened in the dark, remains in the dark." Cuz I do remember that Xin ZIyan noticed Ning Yi's pouch which was now in Zhiwei's possession and was curious about it. Zhiwei wasn't very careful about that. So I wasn't so sure if Ning Yi meant it as a warning or a flirtation...

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23 hours ago, whisper1 said:

I totally agree. The subtle erotic notes in RotP allow a viewer to fill the blanks. For example as FW is undressing behind the screen she asks NY to put out the candle, code for bed time. Couple that with the sound of silk falling or being drawn over the screen, and NYS expression ...well that's  the stuff of dreams. 

Or as they avoid attack falling to the floor NY whispers I'm  so tired. Aren't  you tired? Very hot stuff.

The way he looked away with practiced insouciance, staring into the distance with unfocused eyes, listening for the sound of her clothing falling to the floor...It contrasted so well with the previous scenes, where it is established that Ning Yi makes clothing for all the ladies at the brothel. He is constantly exposed to beautiful, willing women, but it is this moment that leaves him spellbound. 

I also feel like it's notable that she never asked him to step out and he never offered to step out either. It is highly improper for him to be in the room alone with her.

 

6 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Ning Yi said, "There are some things that only exist in the dark." I wonder if he was pertaining to "light can only shine when there is darkness" or that "some things can only be hidden." Was kinda confused about it.

 

He's referring to their affections for each other. If I remember correctly, there was a flashback to their dalliance in that little room. Both of their most intimate moments up to that point (her undressing in his manor and the scene with him on top of her) occurred in the dark. It's the only then that they allow their pretenses to drop. There is a practical element to this in that revealing their relationship would endanger Zhiwei, but it's also because Ning Yi is really emotionally repressed and thus unable/unwilling to verbalize the extent of his feelings. This motif is echoed throughout the show, like their underwater kiss before they both took their leave of each other. The only time when they were upfront was, like you mentioned, in Minhai. 

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1 hour ago, tendrilsofwind said:

He's referring to their affections for each other. If I remember correctly, there was a flashback to their dalliance in that little room. Both of their most intimate moments up to that point (her undressing in his manor and the scene with him on top of her) occurred in the dark. It's the only then that they allow their pretenses to drop. There is a practical element to this in that revealing their relationship would endanger Zhiwei, but it's also because Ning Yi is really emotionally repressed and thus unable/unwilling to verbalize the extent of his feelings. This motif is echoed throughout the show, like their underwater kiss before they both took their leave of each other. The only time when they were upfront was, like you mentioned, in Minhai. 

Yes, I thought he was referring to their affections. Except that I wasn't sure if he was simply flirting or warning her. :D

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OMG I think ep 26 <<<333!!! I love it when NY mentioned to ZW that in the dark when she falls into his arm, and he reminds her about that moment that special things happens in the dark, in a way, he is telling her he adores her :)!!!! Sooo cute that scene!!!

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12 hours ago, rosierosie said:

OMG I think ep 26 <<<333!!! I love it when NY mentioned to ZW that in the dark when she falls into his arm, and he reminds her about that moment that special things happens in the dark, in a way, he is telling her he adores her :)!!!! Sooo cute that scene!!!

True, jmo that moment is very special to both NY and FW, and they are both aware of their feelings of attraction. She , maiden like, tries to be appropriate and not look directly into his eyes but she can't  resist. NY nuzzling her face in such a gentle way is wonderful to watch as an expression of desire, as opposed to more explicit.

Although NY is exposed to many beautiful women, his experience was limited by his in the ZTemple, so I  find him portrayed as a rather innocent lover. 

 

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3 hours ago, whisper1 said:

True, jmo that moment is very special to both NY and FW, and they are both aware of their feelings of attraction. She , maiden like, tries to be appropriate and not look directly into his eyes but she can't  resist. NY nuzzling her face in such a gentle way is wonderful to watch as an expression of desire, as opposed to more explicit.

Although NY is exposed to many beautiful women, his experience was limited by his in the ZTemple, so I  find him portrayed as a rather innocent lover. 

 

Although... he did visit House of Lanxiang quite a bit... I wonder if he only made clothes there... 

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On 11/3/2018 at 8:43 AM, Pollen Ainne said:

Yes, I thought he was referring to their affections. Except that I wasn't sure if he was simply flirting or warning her. :D

I took it as both actually. As a warning, it wasn't just to her, it was also to himself. He has to remember their position and what he has to do.

 

I took House of Lanxiang as a cover. Only caring about weaving and maybe women. Think he mostly used it as a place to meet people in secret and probably gather information.

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3 hours ago, skibbies said:

I took House of Lanxiang as a cover. Only caring about weaving and maybe women. Think he mostly used it as a place to meet people in secret and probably gather information.

Yes, they used it as a secret meeting place since Zhuyin was in control there. But... still... how real did they make it look? I mean, if Wei Zhi who seem to not be interested in "laying" with the ladies can be considered suspicious... then doesn't that mean everyone else does?

 

I am just playing devil's advocate here :D

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Omo!! Ep 30 when NY puts on the act of how humiliating he feel when Ning Sheng accused him of not being the emperor's son is too funny!!! I loved these funny pretentious scenes!! It adds humor to the drama. Is Ning Qi a bad guy too? Sometimes the way he looked at NY, it looks like he is jealous of him too??? I am so impressed by ZW's smartness and quick mind to understand and turn the situation around, her character is good, not like those typical stupid heroine role. 

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7 hours ago, whisper1 said:

True, jmo that moment is very special to both NY and FW, and they are both aware of their feelings of attraction. She , maiden like, tries to be appropriate and not look directly into his eyes but she can't  resist. NY nuzzling her face in such a gentle way is wonderful to watch as an expression of desire, as opposed to more explicit.

Although NY is exposed to many beautiful women, his experience was limited by his in the ZTemple, so I  find him portrayed as a rather innocent lover. 

 

It was my favourite romantic scene! I loved it so much but I wanted a kiss, even a light, brief one. ZW is for once speechless and NY is bolder than usual (and than later). We don't actually know if he'd had other experiences with women, the series doesn't show anything in that regard but I would find it strange otherwise: he was imprisoned at 18, an age already considered suitable for marriage.

The statement "certain things must remain in the dark", I also take it as a warning. I read it as "don't let others know or guess about us" for he has a specific agenda, he cannot be distracted or hindered by anyone. As a matter of fact, we have to wait until the Minhai arc for them to lose all their barriers and finally admit they love each other.

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I’m so glad I found this forum! I have joined soompi just so I can discuss this drama! I have been in so much pain dying to discuss this with people but unfortunately this drama doesn’t seem to have been as popular as I had expected! This drama has affected me deeply and I am obsessed with the leads! Never quite come across anyone who is as talented as Chen Kun and Ni Ni! Honestly their chemistry is insane and they have set the standard of what I want form historical dramas now! I’m currently rewatching the drama despite the ending (completely wrecked me) and it has so many layers and intricacies I missed the first time around! Like in ep 24 when ZW is forced to attack NY with a knife and he grabs her in the dark, he literally sniffs her to know it’s her! I mean the boy was so in love and he didn’t even know! He literally knew her scent! Like I’m a total goner for this couple! 

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2 hours ago, mollyp said:

I’m so glad I found this forum! I have joined soompi just so I can discuss this drama! I have been in so much pain dying to discuss this with people but unfortunately this drama doesn’t seem to have been as popular as I had expected! This drama has affected me deeply and I am obsessed with the leads! Never quite come across anyone who is as talented as Chen Kun and Ni Ni! Honestly their chemistry is insane and they have set the standard of what I want form historical dramas now! I’m currently rewatching the drama despite the ending (completely wrecked me) and it has so many layers and intricacies I missed the first time around! Like in ep 24 when ZW is forced to attack NY with a knife and he grabs her in the dark, he literally sniffs her to know it’s her! I mean the boy was so in love and he didn’t even know! He literally knew her scent! Like I’m a total goner for this couple! 

You are not alone. I also just started posting here for this drama. Although I realize I've had a membership here for a year or 2 now without a single post to my name. Yes, this drama has spoiled me for any other dramas. I try to start another and then there would be little things that reminds me of tRoP and I find myself not doing the drama I am watching justice as my mind wanders off to tRoP instead. It's insanity. How I wish this was an episodal drama with multiple seasons of just Ning Yi and Zhiwei working politics together. I just really want more of them.

 

9 hours ago, mspilgrims said:

The statement "certain things must remain in the dark", I also take it as a warning. I read it as "don't let others know or guess about us" for he has a specific agenda, he cannot be distracted or hindered by anyone. As a matter of fact, we have to wait until the Minhai arc for them to lose all their barriers and finally admit they love each other.

Makes sense. I guess just as skibbies said, it was a flirtation and a warning at the same time.

 

10 hours ago, rosierosie said:

Omo!! Ep 30 when NY puts on the act of how humiliating he feel when Ning Sheng accused him of not being the emperor's son is too funny!!! I loved these funny pretentious scenes!! It adds humor to the drama. Is Ning Qi a bad guy too? Sometimes the way he looked at NY, it looks like he is jealous of him too??? I am so impressed by ZW's smartness and quick mind to understand and turn the situation around, her character is good, not like those typical stupid heroine role. 

I am kinda jealous that you are still at ep 30. Zhiwei's quick thinking at that time was really cool. I think Ning Yi was trying to solve the situation by using Ning Sheng's mother. Zhiwei's solution was better.

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18 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Although... he did visit House of Lanxiang quite a bit... I wonder if he only made clothes there... 

Lol, NY is really a favorite,and gets loads of attention, but let's  not  forget those behaviors are part of their profession. In the flirt dept. NY is no ameture, but he is never shown to have lecherous  or unseemly intent, just social amusment.

When he meets FW and she questions "Mr. Tailor" at first he has his flirt on, but it doesn't  take a second for him to realize she is extraordinary.  "He must have been bullied as a child" 

JmT NY appears to be aware of all the aspects of human sexuality but is a very discerning.  

Leftover bit from my studies...in this period of Chinese hist sex was considered an art form of mutual  pleasure. Goal to please the partner. 

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EP 37 was so funny and also sad. I adore the moment when ZW and NY get to spend alone together. Seeing him going back to his old palace, where his mother used to live was sad. I can only imagined how sad he grew up without his mother, losing his mother at such a young age (8  yrs old) must be tough and so sad. His character is deep in this sense. I wish he can find the happiness that he wants once he solved all the problems that happened when he was young. Also, lol at ZW for putting on an ugly disguise act, she is so hideous but Prince Helieng approves it!! haha the interactions between ZW and NY, and ZW and PH are nice to watch. ZW matches both of them well, but of course, she belongs with NY. PH is so set on marrying ZW, I don't know if he is going to??? I have to say CK makes NY comes alive, his emotions and portrayals of the character is just phenomenon!!! Watching this drama, I feel like I'm in there with them, watching everyone's moves and schemes. I'm glad I pick it up :). And, it is nice to read and have a small community on here :).

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Hey, can someone explain the conversation between Official Zhao and Ning Yi after Ning Chuan’s death? Does the emperor know he was poisoned by an unwitting Zhao? Or are both NY and Zhao just filling in the gaps and feeling guilty about everything? Something missing in translation perhaps? 

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On 11/4/2018 at 1:10 AM, mspilgrims said:

We don't actually know if he'd had other experiences with women, the series doesn't show anything in that regard but I would find it strange otherwise: he was imprisoned at 18, an age already considered suitable for marriage.

I don't know if you remember that scene with Qiu Yuluo throwing herself at him, but he seemed completely inexperienced at that time. The horrified expression on his face is absolutely priceless. I think House of Lanxiang was just a cover, and he's really good at pretending. But you can tell at the beginning that he wasn't used to females touching him. Even when Zhiwei held onto him, he kept telling her to take her hands off of him. Also, when he was explaining to the Emperor that he was feeling nervous and unwell after the marriage proposal and didn't want to go through with it, his father (man with a harem of women) laughed at him like it was the funniest thing on earth. Unless that was all a ruse...


But his expressions whenever he and Zhiwei get close seem rather innocent. I think there was only that time in the cave scene when she was tying the leg of the injured rabbit that he looked at her like he was going to devour her. Haha, not sure how to explain the look on his face. Just felt some sexual undertone there.

5 hours ago, morganian said:

the conversation between Official Zhao and Ning Yi after Ning Chuan’s death? Does the emperor know he was poisoned by an unwitting Zhao? Or are both NY and Zhao just filling in the gaps and feeling guilty about everything?

I just got to this episode last night with my family. I doubt the Emperor knows as Official Zhao chooses to punish himself in secrecy. We had a scene of him doing it before in secret after finding out as well. Now with the death of Ning Chuan, he punished himself one last time and laid his whip down. Ning Yi should have told the Emperor but he didn't either. I'm sure that's why he threw it into the cup, poured tea over it, and was about to drink it. I honestly think that this is a secret between them.

 

My question is, does Official Zhao stop him because he really cares for Ning Yi, or does he do it because he knows about the spell that binds the father and son together?

 

Also, if anyone remembers, in the trailers on the official Croton youtube channel, the scene where Zhiwei came with an edict to stop Ning Yi from killing Shaoning and Ning Chuan, they showed her pulling out her sword and holding it against Ning Yi's chest. But when I watched it on Netflix that scene was missing. Was that scene edited out? And I'm not 100% sure but it looked like they redubbed some lines as well because when Ning Yi and Ning Chuan were talking to each other their lips weren't matching at certain points? Is there a reason for this? 

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2 hours ago, sonosong said:

I don't know if you remember that scene with Qiu Yuluo throwing herself at him, but he seemed completely inexperienced at that time. The horrified expression on his face is absolutely priceless. I think House of Lanxiang was just a cover, and he's really good at pretending. But you can tell at the beginning that he wasn't used to females touching him. Even when Zhiwei held onto him, he kept telling her to take her hands off of him. Also, when he was explaining to the Emperor that he was feeling nervous and unwell after the marriage proposal and didn't want to go through with it, his father (man with a harem of women) laughed at him like it was the funniest thing on earth. Unless that was all a ruse...


But his expressions whenever he and Zhiwei get close seem rather innocent. I think there was only that time in the cave scene when she was tying the leg of the injured rabbit that he looked at her like he was going to devour her. Haha, not sure how to explain the look on his face. Just felt some sexual undertone there.

Actually his reaction to Qui Yuluo is quite normal. He didn't want her attention and she was supposed to be a noble lady. Her actions were very inappropriate for her status. He even told Qui Shangqi to discipline his daughter. Ning Sheng or Ning Qi would probably react the same, although maybe more mildly as they are more mild tempered than Ning Yi. 

 

I don't think that his actions are about not being used to females touching him. Everyone is basically not used to having women of reputable status being so forward. Even Hua Gongmei who wanted to marry Ning Yi would not be so forward as to try and touch him, as it is not appropriate for a lady to act that way. Thus, she can only scheme and try to make conversation with him. I found her despicable, but she was a true lady of the court. The best example would be Yao Yangci. She is the epitome of the perfect lady.

 

And his being nervous about getting married is a complete ruse. He just did it so the Emperor would rescind the order. He also acted unwell in front of the astrologists so they would think the marriage is a bad omen. He did promise Zhiwei he would get it revoked. 

 

But he was an innocent in love, that is for sure. The reason why he is nervous around Zhiwei is not about physical attraction, it's because he is in love with her. Unless he is cold blooded (which he for sure is not), he must have been physically attracted to some of those Lanxiang girls. He didn't seem so uncomfortable nuzzling Zhiwei in the dark. :D In fact, he did flirt with her quite a lot. But he began to be nervous around her when he was more aware of his feelings.

 

8 hours ago, morganian said:

Hey, can someone explain the conversation between Official Zhao and Ning Yi after Ning Chuan’s death? Does the emperor know he was poisoned by an unwitting Zhao? Or are both NY and Zhao just filling in the gaps and feeling guilty about everything? Something missing in translation perhaps? 

2 hours ago, sonosong said:

I just got to this episode last night with my family. I doubt the Emperor knows as Official Zhao chooses to punish himself in secrecy. We had a scene of him doing it before in secret after finding out as well. Now with the death of Ning Chuan, he punished himself one last time and laid his whip down. Ning Yi should have told the Emperor but he didn't either. I'm sure that's why he threw it into the cup, poured tea over it, and was about to drink it. I honestly think that this is a secret between them.

 

My question is, does Official Zhao stop him because he really cares for Ning Yi, or does he do it because he knows about the spell that binds the father and son together?

I am pretty sure it is a secret between them too. And he stopped Ning Yi because he cared both for the emperor and for Ning Yi. Ning Yi has always been his favorite prince.

 

 

Btw, I tried to start NiF again to see if I could finish it this time, but I didn't realize the first time that it was dubbed. I don't usually watch Chinese movies so I wasn't so aware of it. But now, it bothers me so much. The voice acting takes me away from the film so bad... ugh... why do they dub when their speaking their own language...

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4 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

Btw, I tried to start NiF again to see if I could finish it this time, but I didn't realize the first time that it was dubbed. I don't usually watch Chinese movies so I wasn't so aware of it. But now, it bothers me so much. The voice acting takes me away from the film so bad...


Oh lord, don't remind me of NiF. I regret eating spicy ramyeon with the red soup base while watching Episode 1 of this the other day. Almost puked out my food due to the bloodshed. (I'm such a baby when it comes to Tarantino-esque violence.)

 

Prior to this, I saw Bu Bu Jing Xin, and I also tried watching a few other dramas as well, like Sound of the Desert and a recent one with Yang Mi, so I was aware the voices were dubbed. That doesn't take away from enjoying the drama, but it does make me question the actor's acting abilities. I'm going to hated for saying this, but if I had heard Yuan Hong's original voice in Bu Bu Jing Xin, I probably would not have liked him as much as I do now. The guy is good-looking and talented, but when I heard his voice in this drama, I didn't find him attractive at all. (Another one of my unpopular opinions due to my foolish voice fetish.) 

 

4 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

And his being nervous about getting married is a complete ruse. He just did it so the Emperor would rescind the order.

No, I knew that was a ruse. But the fact that the Emperor was laughing and bought into it meant that it really was believable that he would not be sexually experienced with women. Before he was locked away, wasn't he spending most of time doing other things?

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5 hours ago, sonosong said:

My question is, does Official Zhao stop him because he really cares for Ning Yi, or does he do it because he knows about the spell that binds the father and son together?

 

Also, if anyone remembers, in the trailers on the official Croton youtube channel, the scene where Zhiwei came with an edict to stop Ning Yi from killing Shaoning and Ning Chuan, they showed her pulling out her sword and holding it against Ning Yi's chest. But when I watched it on Netflix that scene was missing. Was that scene edited out? And I'm not 100% sure but it looked like they redubbed some lines as well because when Ning Yi and Ning Chuan were talking to each other their lips weren't matching at certain points? Is there a reason for this? 

I think both? Zhao Yuan is like more straightward ver mirror of Emperor, he's very helpful when you can't figure out what Emperor is thinking. but anyways, I think Zhao Yuan knows very well that he's Emperor's favourite and he also personally likes him quite a bit. Especially when he realise that Ning Yi didn't know he almost unwittingly killed his dad but chose to carry that burden with him when he found out, instead of outing Ning Chuan and Zhao Yuan which would hurt the Emperor (and himself but he could get out of it pretty easily, comparatively)

 

Some of the trailer scenes never shows up or is edited heavily. There's a tiny bit of Zhiwei holding a sword against Ning Yi, but you don't see  her pulling the sword out. It appears in a flashback though, blink and you'll miss it.

 

As for the dubbing, that's one of the first very noticeable dubbed scenes. You'll see one of the lines they dubbed over in making of documentary (think it's the Ning Yi one?). He says something along the lines of "I'm the law!". All dramas in China have to go through SARFT, a government organisation that deem what gets broadcasted and what doesn't. Historicals are the stricter because there's more limitations on them, and prime time tv slot this was broadcasted in is also hardest to get passed. Judging by Ning Yi's dubbed lines where he sounds way too much like an "upstanding citizen" spouting out official party lines, the original lines were likely too morally gray? dubious ethically? for them.

 

Re: general dubbing. It's a common practice in cdrama industry in last 10 years I think, I believe all historical are dubbed, modern dramas are a toss up, webdramas usually aren't. The reasons are:

1. noise pollution. A lot of dramas are filmed at particular sets which have become popular tourist spots and is generally crowded by lots of drama teams. 

2. accents. taiwanese and hong kong actors are almost always dubbed over (webdramas excluded) because their accent stick out A LOT. historical are dubbed because of that too, most people have their local accents and not standard mandarin, this apparently pull people out of dramas. People criticised Chen Kun for his pronunciation too (it's more noticeable when he's emotional).

3. voice fitting the character.

4. terrible acting. yeah that's right, a lot of dramas will pay big bucks for a trending actor for their face (and steady fanbase that guarantee profit) even if they can't act. dubbing can sometimes make them watchable. apparently there's people that straight up doesn't remember lines and just say random stuff and let the dubber do their thing.

Side note, I think webdramas not being dubbed is likely due to budget reason, but also just they use younger actors who might not run into accent problem as much, the content are also light and fluff that accent isn't an issue and can be a charm point. They wouldn't use big named actors who can't act as well.

 

NiF's dubbing is mostly due to 1, and they dub themselves, which is nice, because at least you know they can act and my brain isn't royally confused fitting voices to face after I get used to them. There's bit of 3 in it though. They also ran into accent problems, a supporting character who's from the south have very noticeable Beijinger accent. 

 

tRoP was able to record live because the set they filmed at is new (built for a movie that was filmed in 2016), pretty remote that there aren't much tourists or other drama team. Also because this production team really like challenging themselves. It's an anomaly in present cdrama scene.

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