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[Drama 2017] Criminal Minds 크리미널 마인드

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dforte Fan Level: 1-3

dforte

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Ok I'm back. Mainly coz I feel I might need to clarify a few things.

First of all, thank you for the overwhelming welcome. I don't think I've ever been this popular anywhere in my whole life, haha. Happy to know my post provided some new perspective. But after reading some of your comments right after mine, I'm getting a bit worried some of you might be misunderstanding my post. Both the content and the intent.

 

I might sound like I'm repeating myself here. But given my concern, I can't leave it as it was.

Please take note that the rating I gave is only a B+. And that's already taking into account that there have been just 2 episodes. I get that the show need some time to develop itself and find its voice. So it is a solid start. Impressive, given the challenges it faces as a remake. As is, it is already a decent show. The bashing it received online is definitely overblown. But I don't mean that all the criticism is unwarranted. And for most of you, "decent" is not what you are looking for, is it? As supporters and fans, you would want your show to be outstanding, right? So there's a definite need for much improvement. Coz if it just maintains this standard, it will end up being rather mediocre.

By the way, I'll try to use the names of cast and characters in the future. But my brain can't handle too many acronyms at once. So gimme some time.

On the plus side, the drama already has a lot going for it. Mainly, the performance by four members of the cast. 

  • Obvious highlight of Week 1: the teamleader guy. He carried the weight of almost the whole show and fulfilled his role spectacularly.

  • JG's acting is superb even though I feel his emotional intensity is not given enough focus. I will touch on that later.

  • CW is being largely constrained by the script and characterization at the moment. What a shame because even then, she still manages to hold her own. I want to see her unleashed.

  • I don't know much about the media girl but her acting is natural and more than decent.

Next, interesting characters. I don't know whether the drama will be able to live up to its own plan. But from the character descriptions, the characters are obviously well thoughtout. The two guys --teamleader and JG character-- are the only ones that were really introduced this week. And they more than live up to what I was expecting after reading the character descriptions. So we're off to a good start.

Finally, the wealth of material for its script. Being a remake has its own advantages. There is more than enough material that the drama can choose to pull from the original. If they make the right choices, this has the potential to be a hell lot more gratifying than the original.

 

But there are problems it definitely need to fix.

First problem, the other two cast/character. I don't know whether the issue is acting or characterization. And I'm not even comparing them to Reid and Garcia. Nevertheless they still need to somehow portray those two as believable genius and IT woman. I hope giving them more dialogue in week 2 would help shape them into true characters, not mere caricatures like they are now.

Next problem is mainly about editing. And I have a lot to say.

By the way, can someone clarify a few things for me:

  • How does the production process work for korean dramas? I read somewhere on the thread that they're still in production phase. Really? Even though it's already airing? For much later episodes, I suppose?
  • And do korean shows adjust the editing, according to critical reviews while airing?

Well, I sure hope they'd do readjustments. Because the editing has been very problematic. Lemme quote something so I can talk about it.

12 hours ago, zi4r said:

I, for one, actually like the fact that EP1 makes the viewers try to catch up & ponder on the logical links in the case. Given the two tracks of investigation, NCI & Hyunjun, the reveal of the case comes from two different directions... making the flow unconventional and fun to watch & figure out. The last profiling scene between the team leader (KKH) & the 'cold' girl (HSW) sums up all the logical links in a nice & tidy fashion. But it seems, many viewers found it hard to follow, and some even felt that there were logical holes in the resolution (which I disagree).
So the question is: How much to explain? Too much explanation... and we might end up with clunky dialogue and boring/simplistic episode structure, which to me would be an even worse trade-off.

I'm not sure how much explanation they should add to the profiling either. But IMO the bulk of the issue comes from editing and dialogue, not lack of explanation.

The choppy editing gave me total whiplash. I could not concentrate on the information being thrown at me coz I was busy trying to understand the timeline and scene setting. And it was even worse for me. I'm not being racist here but many asian faces look alike to me. So sometimes I couldn't even tell which character I was looking at!

And the dialogue. I know zi4r feels that the delivery is more inventive and natural than the US version. I agree. But there is a downside to it. The smooth dialogue does not give me enough indication as to what I should be focusing on. The profile delivery in the original was simplistic in structure and kinda boring and sometimes unnatural. But that allowed the viewers to get all the information at one go. --You seem to have mindboggling attention for detail @zi4r but you can't expect all the casual viewers to retain and analyze like you do! Have some sympathy for people like me, will you? XD

Another problem I had with the episode. This one has huge negative impact IMO. And I think it's editing issue too. Correct me if I'm wrong.

First, the bomb-blast. People here have talked about it. How it was cut too short. I fully agree. Remember, I was completely new to korean drama so I didn't know JG or the teamleader guy or anyone else. So it was especially hard for me to follow. I didn't understand who died, who was crying, and who blamed whom for what. It took me half the episode to guess why the JG character might blame NCI for the situation. And only after reading on this forum, I fully understood the skinny dude's anger.

Next, the skinny dude's sister kidnapping. I know she's not his sister but lemme call her that for convenience sake. There weren't enough scenes showing the skinny dude's emotions about the incident. Someone here said he was being too violent or impulsive. I totally disagree. If it were me, I would've been out of my mind! Probably beaten the suspect into a bloody pulp. But in most scenes, the skinny dude seemed pretty calm and collected as if she doesn't matter all that much to him. I know the CW character gave him a talking to. But it just doesn't make sense it was enough to calm him that much. I wouldn't calm me for sure. And when they finally saved the sister? Again, there was little opportunity for him to show emotion. I would've liked to see him on the ambulance or at the hospital. I also wanted an emotional reunion with the girl's mother. In the original Criminal Minds, if there was one thing done well, it's the aftermath of the case. The impact of the team's good work on the victims and families. And in this drama, that part was totally ignored!

I find it curious that all these problems keep happening during the skinny dude's emotional scenes. And it is totally obvious that there is nothing wrong with JG's acting. In fact, he is great! It seems to me that they wanted to ensure the audience focus on the profiling character in the first week. And to do that, scenes were edited to purposely downplay the non-profiling character.

That's a huge mistake IMO. The drama could still have showcased the working of a profiler through one great actor, while also cashing out on the intense emotions played by another great actor. That's why I said the episodes felt "incomplete". I don't feel as if I got the full resolution to the case. How is NCI ok with the skinny dude investigating the case even though he is emotionally involved? How was the girl's family affected by the kidnapping? How is the skinny dude affected by all of this, except for him joining NCI? I needed more. And I didn't get it.

And it's a true damn shame. The 2 episodes have much more potential than they actually delivered. All because of questionable editing choices. If I were the cast, I would be pretty pissed off right now.

 

So. I'm sure I won't be getting much love from all of you this time, haha. But please know that I'll still be tuning in this week. I don't know when exactly I'll get to watch the episodes with subtitles. But I will stop by to drop some comments once I am done watching.

To all those who commented on my previous post, I will respond in the next one. Ciao for now.

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lovelyrainy Fan Level: 23-1

lovelyrainy

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@dforte 

Quote
  • How does the production process work for korean dramas? I read somewhere on the thread that they're still in production phase. Really? Even though it's already airing? For much later episodes, I suppose?
  • And do korean shows adjust the editing, according to critical reviews while airing?

 

As for your questions:

- They mostly do "rolling", filming and airing at the same time. In the beginning, filming might be done 3-4 weeks prior but usually once they reach their last 1/3 stage, the schedules are too hectic that they finish filming only 2-3 days prior to airing. You will notice how exhausted the cast look as time goes by. Descendant of the sun, Moon lover... are the first and very few pre-produced dramas, they only started doing that since last year.

- Some shows do that, I forgot which one but the writer and PD changed their ending several years ago. The most recent example is Introverted boss, the show got too much criticism that they changed everything after the 4th - 5th episode

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pixelsticks Fan Level: 29-1

pixelsticks

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21 hours ago, vangsweetie637 said:

@pixelsticks omo!! :o i would've have never noticed the missing 'S' if you didn't point it out. We viewers really do have sharp eyes :tongue::lol: 

3

I'm sure they were hoping no one noticed.  I bet it's probably fixed by now.  <<<fingers crossed>>>

@sakura2016 for some reason that blogsite is blocked for me. 

@gzan Hello!  We might be the only 2 people on here who do not dislike Lee Han & Na Hwang.  Are you really from Colorado?  Maybe that's why?  hehehehe

And Victory!   tv baby 66 We got @dforte to post again! :wink:

I also wished for the same things you did at the end of episode 2.  Instead of the just the long, KKH "walking away like a wounded animal off to hide in the woods" scene with the voiceover quote...why not show him walking away but MCW coming to grab him...(to show team connection-but was she sent away-not allowed to go into forest?), quickly pan to ambulance arriving at hospital with JG/fake sis on it and mother is waiting and they hug (could have taken 30 seconds).  Maybe this was all part of why the one director left.  But then again, I would love for you to watch other Kdramas to see how you feel about their editing/way they depict emotion as well. 

I'd love to chat more...but I have a RUSH RL job....so see ya! 

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zi4r Fan Level: 21-3

zi4r

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Posted

My soompi notifications are all gone. The whole tab is blank. And I dunno why. :bawling:

And given the mess with my computer, I barely had time to soompi this weekend. So I've given up on trying to back-read and respond. I'm just going to focus on next episode. If I missed out on anyone's post, my apologies.

 

@stroppyse We were just talking about gender issues, and then this happens:
>> “Criminal Minds” And Seoul To Start Joint Campaign Fighting Violence Against Women. :wink:

@girlyponytail Thank you for reading. And please don't call yourself dumb. It's just that we all notice different things. That's why we're on this thread, right? To share information & thoughts & opinions.

@vangsweetie637 Thank you for reading. I was actually typing a response to all your various posts combined together, when my computer died. I usually type out my posts elsewhere and copy-paste into soompi, but this time I decided to do it straight on soompi. Meaning, I had nothing saved, and my computer decided to quit on me on this exact instance! Murphy's Law huh. :bawling: Anyway, I'm so sorry, chingu..... But I don't think I will have time to restructure the post again before Ep3. Please know that I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the first 2 episodes!

@Uniform Victory Thank you for the character background posts. And @Mau_Cherry for the input.
It's all going to be very useful reference for me! Greatly appreciated.

@pixelsticks Lol about the "S". The things you notice! :lol:
But seriously, I hope they fix it next episode. It's kinda embarrassing.

@pixelsticks @sakura2016 Try this link: http://ajavilla.blogspot.sg/ 

@mulberry9 Gosh, that IG post. Why can't we get that in the drama?! Waeeee!!!! desperate1-onion-head-emoticon.gif?12928

@dforte Thanks for writing more. Very insightful post, as expected.
Sigh..... I'm not going to comment on your remarks about editing with JG scenes. Because I've been trying very hard to ignore them for days now. My heart hurts thinking about the missed opportunities. I'm just going to look ahead now. Onward to episode 3. Hopefully my two biases will get to shine this time.

 

My brain is in full writer-block mode at the moment. Frankly speaking, EP02 didn't inspire me enough to write a proper analysis post. Hopefully, EP03 will help me restart my writing brain.

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gzan Fan Level: 8-1

gzan

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3 hours ago, pixelsticks said:

@gzan Hello!  We might be the only 2 people on here who do not dislike Lee Han & Na Hwang.  Are you really from Colorado?  Maybe that's why?  hehehehe

Lol it's very possible. That just means we'll have to stick together, amiright? And, yeah, I am truly from Colorado. Does this mean that you are also partaking of the beautiful landscapes and scary drivers that make up this 'wonderful' state? >D

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gzan Fan Level: 8-1

gzan

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17 minutes ago, lovelyrainy said:

Sorry for jumping into the middle of your conversation but I see Colorado fellows!!!!!!Hi there!!!@gzan @pixelsticks

Well, hello!! :D we actually exist, whaaaaaat? What part of Colorado do you live in, @lovelyrainy? If you don't mind me asking, that is. I am uncaring, personally, since I live in Colorado Springs and it's such a big damn city now..... It would be kind of hard to stalk me. (No, this is not a challenge, don't do it)

4 minutes ago, haniiiii said:

@gzan  @pixelsticks So it is at least three of us. ^^ I find Lee Han and NaNa Hwang quite amusing :D 

They're super awesome, right? I especially love their interactions with each other. The whole make up thing at the end of episode 2 was freaking hilarious.

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gzan Fan Level: 8-1

gzan

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5 hours ago, haniiiii said:

@gzan Right. The end of second episode was awesome. First Hyun Jun entering NCI and his swaaaag ♥ and then the make up scene :D 

Ohman yes. Hahaha NaNa Hwang and the lab tech were basically all the fangirls hahaha xD

5 hours ago, lovelyrainy said:

New instagram update fromg Jun Ki

@gzan Aurora as of now, I used to live in Denver. I had some business in CS last year and was surprised how developed it is

Ahhh, I am looking forward to this week's episodes. I'm going to be sad next week when I have no internet up in the mountains. (Yay camping?)

Spoiler

Oh, Aurora... XD to be fair, I actually hate driving through Denver, period. But Aurora right off 225 is a special kind of scream-inducing annoyance. (Though the little hole in the wall Greek place up there is FREAKING AMAZING). But, yeah. CS has literally EXPLODED the past few years. I am old enough to remember when there were only a handful of businesses east of Academy, before Powers really blew up. Is blowing up. They're continuing to build new businesses and such, it is both terrifying and exciting at the same time

.

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antoniaclamens Fan Level: 28-1

antoniaclamens

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Hi guys, i couldn´t log yesterday, but I’m happy to backread and find so many insightful posts.

I’m also happy to see a man here @dforte and know your POV as a man and a non kdrama watcher.  First to you and all who follow your example, please let´s not call JG “the skinny guy”, let me borrow a gif to quote him:

WpEnZXD.gif

I see you tried to call him JG in your second post, but you soon forgot to keep doing it! Second, I have to agree with you, they lost the chance to show us many emotional scenes, and that’s sad. Because both the bomb scene and the kidnapping aftermath had so much potential. And I’m sure LJG would have been awesome in those scenes. I still have hopes for flashback scenes. Sigh. After watching MLSHR (last LJG’s drama) I’m afraid of another editing nightmare (though even with the editing nightmare or maybe because of the editing nightmare, MLSHR is my favorite and most beloved drama). In spoiler because offtopic:

Spoiler

 

If you want K-dramas recommendations, from LJG (I won´t and can´t hide it, he’s my favorite actor) you should watch Moon Lovers Scarlet Heart Ryeo (MLSHR), if you want to try a period drama, or Two Weeks. Time Between Dog and Wolf is very good, tough it’s an old drama. Other good (nonromantic) dramas: Healer, The End of The World, Nine: Nine Time Travels, Awl, The Devil, Liar Game, Mixed-up Investigative Agency, Phantom aka Ghost. 

BTW I can´t hate you because you said LJG is a great actor (I know he is but not everyone recognizes it) but I must disagree when you said that if the drama mantains this standard it will end being mediocre. So far the drama is a good one, so if it keeps this standard it will end being a good drama. Korean dramas usually starts flat (from my long k-drama experience: like 7 years and over 150 dramas) so CM already has so much potential to end being great!

@violina it's really nice to see that CM is joining a campaign to prevent violence against women. it's sure a smart way to earn media coverage while supporting a good cause. And it really fits the drama and the message it could deliver (as already commented SW suffered from genre discrimination in his previous job)

@glassnokamen thank you so much for sharing the link of LJG KKTV interview english subbed. We get to know why he chose the drama and what to expect from the adaptation (at least from his POV)

@Chellsee finally we could have the OST! i love the song and i want it in my play list asap!!! thank you for the news 

---

After episode 2, here are some thoughts:

I love everything about Hyun Joon, but one thing i love the most about him is how he cares about people above all. They showed us many examples: when SW was injured he stops first to check on her before chasing after the criminal. When he was chasing the car he decided to prevent the accident even when it means he would loose the criminal. After crashing with the car the first thing he did was asking SW if she was alright... And he's a gentleman: i love how he opened the door for SW when they were at the correctional. :heart:

About SW i love how she's so understanding and always manages to say the right words to make both KH and HJ take the right decisions...

can´t wait for episode 3 

 

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pixelsticks Fan Level: 29-1

pixelsticks

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Posted
3 hours ago, gzan said:

Lol it's very possible. That just means we'll have to stick together, amiright? And, yeah, I am truly from Colorado. Does this mean that you are also partaking of the beautiful landscapes and scary drivers that make up this 'wonderful' state? >D

Sadly...no.  But I grew up there, went to college there!  Miss the mountains in the summer.  Stuck on hot beaches now.  But yes...let us support the quirky characters of this show! 

2 hours ago, lovelyrainy said:

Sorry for jumping into the middle of your conversation but I see Colorado fellows!!!!!!Hi there!!!@gzan @pixelsticks

SQUEE!  Wow...what a small world! 

1 hour ago, haniiiii said:

@gzan  @pixelsticks So it is at least three of us. ^^ I find Lee Han and NaNa Hwang quite amusing :D 

I cannot wait to see Hyun Joon interact with them.  That is where I hope there will be some levity in this show!  

Hey.....aren't you the "famous" Czech fan that saw JG on the filming site? :ph34r:  

5 hours ago, zi4r said:

 

@pixelsticks Lol about the "S". The things you notice! :lol:
But seriously, I hope they fix it next episode. It's kinda embarrassing.

@pixelsticks @sakura2016 Try this link: http://ajavilla.blogspot.sg/ 

 

 

Hahaha...somehow I sense that to be a compliment and a snark.  :wink: And thank you for the new link!  And I hope your computer troubles end.  

19 minutes ago, antoniaclamens said:

First to you and all who follow your example, please let´s not call JG “the skinny guy”, let me borrow a gif to quote him:

 

BWAA!!!  Perfection!!!!

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