[Drama 2015-2016] Six Flying Dragons 육룡이 나르샤

[Guest]

@earthna30  Believe me when I say I have no insight or knowledge of what's ahead.  In fact I just might be the last person on this thread to ask.  I really just watch an episode at a time and sometimes only half LOL if the subs are not done.  Which I understand  and am grateful for those who take the time to sub because it's hard work and often they get little thanks.  I don't know the future of BY but she is an amazing character who you can't help but love. Because of her very nature I hope she is around for a long while.  We have seen & felt her struggles and how every time she overcomes them one by one.  The real surprise at least for me is that she does it with such strength yet graceful at the same time.  She isn't afraid always so willing to protect those who are weaker to the point I believe she would lay down her life.  And do it with a smile on her face she is that kind of woman.  She is filled with thoughts of others before herself or her own needs. Even able to sacrifice her feelings of love for the greater good and change.  I was just thinking when BW tries to explain that the people don't have time to govern themselves.  Her next question forgive me it's late but something like, it will change won't it?  She is the true voice of the people, to me she faithfully continues to bring them into the open  and deserves to be the only woman dragon....

[Mico Ricco]

credit :-

http://www.topstarnews.net/detail.php?number=164167

http://www.topstarnews.net/detail.php?number=164197

 

[zenya22]

 

It looks like the writers in this episode and upcoming ones are going to delve into serious politics and philosophy. Episode 18, there was no wasted conversation or scene, all precise and meaningful. YBW whether he likes it or not did learn from HIB and hopefully will further learn from JDJ the teacher he presently admires and respects regarding the nature of man. JDJ realized in his discussion with HIB that human beings in knowing, recognizing who they are, their strengths and weakness, that they have a choice of listening to their innate goodness or to the worm and it is almost easier to choose the worm. JDJ through HIB, recognized that the Saedebu Scholars no matter how devoted they are to philosophical studies, when encountering the different phases in life can also succumb to the swaying of their baser nature.

. “He who exerts his mind to the utmost knows his nature” and “the way of learning is none other than finding the lost mind.” This for me is so profound and deep.

It seems that JDJ has learned, lessons of knowing his nature and finding or recognizing his lost mind. In episode 10 when he was presented the easy way out by YH to solve his problem by letting BW die in prison, JDJ recognized that his mind was lost and in identifying that “lost mind” he also realized that the mind that was lost resides within himself. He was then able to bravely face and wrestle with it walking the mountains the streams and finally arriving at the rock and directed his mind to the right path. That way of learning, finding the lost mind, maybe the hardest lesson for anyone as it is always hardest to see one’s mind is lost or flawed. However, as sage a scholar as JDJ is, he is involved in politics where the seat of power resides and he is working to change that seat. So could it not be that in his quest to establish a new country that the worm in his heart is not yet vanquished as he thinks? He as the puppet master holds “hidden” but strong power but what if his position will be challenged, how will he react? The same question that HIB asked of YBW could be asked of JDJ.

YSG is smack in the middle of the power struggle being fought by JDJ and YIG and YSG looks confused as he does not yet know the rules of war in a political arena. In a military war it is more straightforward especially in this war of face to face combat. You know that the warrior opposite of yourself and wielding the sword against you or the one shooting arrows at you is the enemy. There might also be strategies of war but you still know who you are devising the strategies against. Now politics is muddy. YSG, Ji Ran and his son Bang Woo were ready to attack YIG as he was part of the triumvirate who committed crimes against people and country. He is the bad guy and yet the versed political adviser, JDJ, is telling them to hold hands with YIG and his people and go against General Choi at the Dodang in-order to prevent the generals from warring with each other. It was hard for YSG to fathom fighting against the General whom YSG had fought wars side by side with. For YSG political combat is like fighting in a field of smoke and mirrors. It is hard to tell whom or what is real and involves manipulation and lying. This political infighting can become a fertile ground for “losing the mind” and the seeding of self preservation and ambition.

BW on the other hand in his enthusiastic youth and intelligent mind is niggled by what HIB told him and he tries to fight or deny it. He seems to fear the truth in it and he asks BY to bring him back and show him the path when he gets lost and changes. When the four younger dragons were at the cave and JDJ was telling them about his plans for forming a new governance, each of them had different thoughts. MH, said he did not understand, BJ was thinking if this could be possible, BY was thinking if the people, the commoners were included in that plan and finally YBW was thinking that he wants all of it. I wonder if at that moment he knows what it is that he wants. He is yet to learn what HIB told him, that when he hears the whispers of the worm is when he will know himself.

 

 

 

 

[zenya22]

11 hours ago, chickpea said:

Greetings, All,

@homura - Many thanks for your brilliant work fact checking, filling in the historical background and providing insight into the philosophical underpinnings of the politics in the drama.  Regarding the above quote, doesn't this mirror GTM's dying ehortation that if he didn't take advantage of the poor and helpless who should he have taken advantage of... the rich and powerful?  And his (correct) assessment of fallen human nature that from the beginning (a thousand years ago) and to the end (a thousand years from now) the nature of human beings is to lean toward selfishness for the purpose of self-preservation and elevation in the community (society).  You can see why these two were friends and relatives...  Regarding Samsa, I can see how this can function as a system of checks and balances of the political class and this responds to HIB, but what's not addressed is the relationship between the political class and the majority non-noble, non-political, non-scholarly class which is what GTM's statement is referring to...but then we'd be talking about something more akin to a social contract...  Its too bad JDJ didn't hear GTM's last words in addition to HIB's last words, he may have devised a different system...  and we'd have a different drama...

The "worm in the heart"... what do you think this refers to?  Blind ambition, hunger for power, greed...?  Ah, I just read JDJ's words again, we have a saying here that the person who steps on other people to get to the top with the intention of then doing great things when he gets to the top, will be a person at the top who steps on people...  In other words, does the end justify the means or does the means justify the ends...  Can a person who will plot political intrigue, hold suspicions, falsely accuse and murder to create a "just society" be a "just" ruler?  Can a society be "just" if its foundation is based on all the foregoing...  I think back to that good/just speech LBW had with HIB, LBW is willing to forego "good" to be "just" but, can you separate goodness and justice, or are you (or that worm in your heart) blinding yourself to the reality that one cannot be both evil and just or good and unjust... the moment you step on the path of evil, injustice naturally follows... it may take a while for it to materialize, but eventually materialize it will...   So what does this mean?  That the end of every great society is implanted at its birth... 

I can't find the cite now but there was some talk about the "secret" that could get BY's brother killed... What I took from this is that the now LBJ and perhaps little sister BY are the illegitimate children of some royal and a maid and I am speculating here but I foresee a role for GTM's twin brother in this drama as, perhaps, protector, life-long love of the deceased (or missing) mother or even perhaps foster father of LBJ and biological father of BY...  That's what I'm thinking...

What I'm hoping is that LBJ and YH get over their tragic past, together take out all the baddies who raped her and find a place in each other's heart again...  And since they're both fictional chacaters, it can happen... writer-nim????

Finally, I'm gonna miss that blue eye shadow...

 

 

 

Great post and good question. I love how the writers threw in the speeches and questions of GTM and HIB before they died. As you pointed out the question that BY also asks what about the common people will they have a say in the check and balances, will thay be able to check the nobles, there was still slavery and a big partition between class divide. So who does the check and balance benifit most?

As for YH and BJ I want some happiness even if for a short time too. Because in TWDR only BJ is transported to TWDR and not YH nor BY.  But just for a little bit of time. I agree writer nim

[KdramaAddict]

4 hours ago, USAFarmgirl said:

@earthna30  Believe me when I say I have no insight or knowledge of what's ahead.  In fact I just might be the last person on this thread to ask.  I really just watch an episode at a time and sometimes only half LOL if the subs are not done.  Which I understand  and am grateful for those who take the time to sub because it's hard work and often they get little thanks.  I don't know the future of BY but she is an amazing character who you can't help but love. Because of her very nature I hope she is around for a long while.  We have seen & felt her struggles and how every time she overcomes them one by one.  The real surprise at least for me is that she does it with such strength yet graceful at the same time.  She isn't afraid always so willing to protect those who are weaker to the point I believe she would lay down her life.  And do it with a smile on her face she is that kind of woman.  She is filled with thoughts of others before herself or her own needs. Even able to sacrifice her feelings of love for the greater good and change.  I was just thinking when BW tries to explain that the people don't have time to govern themselves.  Her next question forgive me it's late but something like, it will change won't it?  She is the true voice of the people, to me she faithfully continues to bring them into the open  and deserves to be the only woman dragon....

 

I love your analysis of Boon Yis character. I have just completed 5 episodes and already impressed as how this one character has been shown. We know that all other 5 dragons are males and for a female, first to be among one and then to have qualities to stand right beside (not even behind) it takes a lot of courage and uniqueness of ones personality. And she has all.

She does not back of against what wrong and know how to respond patiently at right time and place and not just react then and there to spoil the impact ( the way she burnt the grains...was outstanding step) and I hope she does the same throughout the series.

[bodashiri]

On 2015. 12. 4. 오후, azzurri said:

I was also intrigued by what Taejong said to his son Yi Do about Jung Do-Jeon in TWDR. He had such high regard for the person he called his Teacher, and in fact despite claiming that JDJ did nothing, wiki tells us that he kept most of JDJ's reforms intact during his reign. If that isn't proof that Taejong held JDJ in high regard, I don't know what is. Yet he refused to admit it, and in fact did the opposite. He vilified JDJ but honored Poeun whom he himself killed. It's almost as if Taejong was acting spitefully against JDJ, although what was the point of that since JDJ was already dead. I am curious as to what caused this extreme falling out between Teacher and Student. I'm sure the writers will give us an interesting explanation of this.

 

Frankly speaking, in my eyes, SFD is a bloody love-hate bromance between Yi Bang-Won and Jung Do-Jeon. (LOL)

Even when Yi Bang-Won didn't know who the owner of the cave was, he said  "I want to see him. I want to be like him, and I want to know him." (ep. 5) Being harshly scolded and expelled by Jung Do-Jeon when they first met in the cave, Bang-Won was discouraged at first but said to himself "He's awesome. So awesome. Teacher Sambong, take good care of my room in the cave. I'll definitely be back." (ep 10)  After hearing the balance and check system Jung Do-Jeon is creating in his mind, Bang-Won thinks "I want to have them. All of them" "Really, he is a genius I cannot mimic."

At first it was admiration and yearning. Now it slowly changes into envy and Jealousy. It can be inferiority complex, possessiveness, obsession in the future. After founding Joseon, he may feel betrayal, being abandoned, and being ignored.  

I'm curious about how SFD writers will describe the reasons of their conflicts, and when the worm inside Bang-Won will finally start whispering to him. My guess is that Yi Bang-Won will get fed up with his longtime one-sided crush on Jung Do-Jeon in the future. In proportion to his unrequited love for Sambong, his hatred will be growing worse. It reminds me of the relationships between Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Antonio Salieri in the movie Amadeus (1984).

 

[nevill]

@USAFarmgirl i loved your post and it made me think that this wish of BY to make the ppl part of the governing system and the lack of trust by BW show how he (and for now rightly so) thinks he is smarter than anyone else less JDJ and maybe BY and even more than anyone knows whats better for everyone even if they dont know it - to his mind he is a parents knowing better for his children

another motif of kings in Sajeuk 

@homura and in turn he feels that JDJ is a parent now for him - but like most children they get disillusioned and realize their parents are only human and that i think what will happen with JDJ 

and one day he will come to think that he knows even better than JDJ

thats what times does

and children get smarter than their parents 

[nevill]

LM-GSY getting ready

 

[nevill]

LIG & Peasant making peace 

 

[nevill]

always adorkable MH

 

[AlexandraReid]

3 minutes ago, nevill said:

LM-GSY getting ready

 

Is that SSK at the back? it seems so lol 

 

 

[nevill]

36 minutes ago, MiAmour said:

 

Is that SSK at the back? it seems so lol 

 

 

it is she is with her phone

[nevill]

remember the time it was sunny - running in the field

 

getting ready for battle 

 

[nevill]

cute BTS

 

[nevill]

so its GTM week at SBS - here cute BTS 

drinking blood - Dracula

to watch:

http://program.sbs.co.kr/builder/endPage.do?pgm_id=22000008547&pgm_mnu_id=38035&pgm_build_id=11501&pageIdx=1&listOrder=regDtDesc&searchCondition=title&searchKeyword=&contNo=43

[nevill]

lets not forget the most evil of evils - the one consumed by the worm HIB

to watch:

http://program.sbs.co.kr/builder/endPage.do?pgm_id=22000008547&pgm_mnu_id=38035&pgm_build_id=11501&pageIdx=1&listOrder=regDtDesc&searchCondition=title&searchKeyword=&contNo=44

[nevill]

Heaven in the Voices

THE A-PHILOSOPHER'S CHAIR

“War should not be waged by the rich, because it is the poor who make up the casualties,” bellows Jeong Do-jeon, the man who will become the founding prime minister and master architect of the new nation Joseon. Pointing at the Goryeo prime minister and his cronies seated comfortably under the tent, he continues, “War should not be decided on by the old, because it is the young who perish.”

One by one, the massive sea of common folks, scholars and ministers in the square joins him in the rally against diplomatic ties with the weakened Yuan regime, which the elites are pursuing for personal benefits despite the risk of antagonizing the mighty Ming empire that has replaced it in China. Fights break out between the two sides, as the prime minister lets his armed guards beat up even the weak and the old to shield the Yuan envoys secretly present. Watching on with tears in his eyes, Jeong leads a Goryeo-equivalent of the crowd anthem, “Do You Hear the People Sing?” in the film Les Miserables:

to read more:

https://aphilosopherchair.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/heaven-in-the-voices/

[nevill]

repeating myself - so cute

[zenya22]

Thank you @evill for including Gap Boon in your GIF posts. I am also glad that she was included in EP 18 but I feel some sadness for her. BJ went to ask for her help in locating the any departing boat from the rivers. She seemed so happy to be helping but as she went running down the stairs to do her errand she turned back to ask BJ to ask if he was allright. When he nodded his head she smiled back an turned to do what she had to do. I find it sad. He was the orabeoni whom she had followed, his sidekick side by side and now she  seems to be no longer that. I wonder if he even told her his new name or that he prefers to be Orabeoni Dang Sae for her. Maybe if she met Boon Yi again and become friends with her that she might feel some semblance of connection as he is going to be mighty busy as the number 1 and best warrior of the 3 Hans guarding JDJ, YH and BY. She is a strong woman she will do what she has to do.

[nevill]

@zenya22 sad that GB is less included im really not sure she knows his new name and when she said he looked good she was happy for him yet sad to not be included in the new life he had 

she knows he has a new name and found his sister from MH but BJ has yet to have a tet a tet with her

of course these are turbulent times - but i really hope she will come live with them at camp  - i think BJ is her only family and she needs him more than BY who has enough to support her