[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

19 minutes ago, mywebfoot said:

Some rambling thoughts about Ho Rang and Won Seok

As some have commented, poor Won Seok is being manipulated into a proposal, one that is still highly uncertain that he wants to do. Definitely Ho Rang is wrong to manipulate Won Seok, but Won Seok also needs to make a decision about what he wants. Certainly both have their reasons for being the way they are, but it certainly doesn't excuse the harm they are going to do to each other. 

Won Seok, like many start up people I know, really loves his creation. Unfortunately, part of the nature of a startup business is that it SHOULD fail if it isn't sustainable. Won Seok unfortunately has that dilemma in front of him - if his app is unsustainable, should he kill it and move on to something more lucrative? Or should he keep pounding at it, in the hopes it will 'take off' one day. Won Seok is cute and book smart, but he is also terribly indecisive. Sang Gu is right, Won Seok cannot be a good businessman. This trait of his plays out in his relationship with Ho Rang. 

Ho Rang is unfortunately convenient for him. Until she started making her wish for marriage clear, she was everything he needed and wanted. Then came the dilemma - the relationship became unsustainable and now it comes time for a decision - to break up or get married. 

We all know that part of being an adult is making hard decisions. Won Seok has finally made them. He's quit the startup and decided to get married. Now the second part of being an adult kicks in - living with the decisions you've made, even when things get difficult. Let's see if he can do it. If he can't, honestly, he should do more growing up before getting married, not bring better specs to the marriage. 

Ho Rang. Sigh. She just makes me sigh. I'm all for being accepting of other people's personal life goals, regardless of how weird they seem to me. I mean, if Ho Rang can clearly see that her life goal is about being acceptable by some amorphous societal standard, and that is what will make her happy, then, ok, go for it girl.

BUT SERIOUSLY, have some pride too. If there's anything about Ho Rang that truly annoys me, it's this - she has absolutely zero pride in her own abilities. Zip. Her view of herself is 100%, no 110% based on how other people view her. Ayyyyyy, how did you get that way Ho Rang? What happened between high school and now to make you that way? When did you give up on yourself?

The saddest part is she thinks that will make her a good wife, being self-sacrificial and other-centred. In reality, when the lack of self-image is taken to such extremes, it would just turn her into an insecure, clingy person. The sum effect will be that she will be even more manipulative, even more demanding of Won Seok because her self-worth is embodied in him. 

 

I agree with most of what you wrote.

 

I don't think that Won Seok is being manipulated into a proposal.  I think she realized how much HoRang is his rock who will support him, even when everyone see him as a failure.  He was able to resist her pressure until he realize how much she sustains him emotionally. 

 

Personally I'm more worried about their inability to share interest outside of "being in love." 

 

While I don't understand Ho-Rang goal, I'll defend them against all comers with the same energy I defended Soo-Ji's right to refuse Sang Goo.  I don't think she is unaware of the abilities. She would be in a supervisory post if what didn't know her value.  

 

Whatever happens we can bet there is angst ahead because we are at episode 9 of 16.

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

I've go to say the rhythm and trajectory of episode nine was kind of weird.

It have all the hallmarks of a final episode with all the storyline resolved or on the verge of being resolved.

but then [if my subtitles are correct) the reveal that SeHee was married 12 years ago.

 

All that talk about needing only one love will gather new meaning soon.

 

SeHee rescue of Ji-Ho and his holding tight to her hand until he forgot it wasn't his own hand reminds me of the story of kitty rescue.

 

So BokNam isn't the stalker,  okay. He's just a victim of identity theft.

 

Cool.

 

But that doesn't mean he's too attractive, cool, desirable to be a stalker.  

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

I know Bo-mi is non-standard in her interactions with people and presentation of self.  Though she is not "feminine" or flirty in her interaction with her male co-workers, she works to maintain her identity as a woman.  She always wears a dress.

 

Bo-mi is no weirder than Se-Hee; She is no weirder than Sang-Goo. She is no weirder than Won-Seok.  Call those guys out for being askew.

 

Also her emotional quotient is very high. 

She has greater insight into Se-Hee and Sang-Goo than anyone.

SHE CAN RECOGNIZE Se-Hee's DIFFERENT EMOTIONS

. 

 

Perhaps Bo-Mi isn't human, but a very advanced AI [kidding]

 

At first I thought she had a romantic interest in Se-Hee, but now I think Bo-mi likes him in the way you like an awkward friend and wants his happiness. 

 

All the web-designers in this drama are a little off-but that's what people believe about app designers.

 

I think the world is less critical of "non-standard" men, i.e. Se-Hee and Sang-Goo than they are of non-standard women.  Just look at the dragging Soo-Ji is getting in forum because she dares to reject what seems like a decent man.

 

Just because a nice guy likes a woman, it doesn't mean that woman is obligated to like him back.  OR even if she likes him, it doesn't mean she is obligated to uproot her life so that he can have what he want, if it isn't what she wants.

 

This is K-drama, so it can spin out in any direction at any second, but at the core of this drama are healthy positive female friendships.  I would be surprised if Bo-mi turned out of be a deranged jealous demon.  Also despite his reserve Se-Hee respects her.  I think at his core Se-Hee knows quality human being when he see them.

 

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

For people wondering why there is so much sexual assault being portrayed on My First Life, it is probably because young women living in cities experience unwanted sexual attention most everyday they leave their home.

 

I have 9 playwriting students this semester, 7 women and 2 men.

4 of the women are writing about sexual harassment, sexual assault, rape.

1 man is writing about the end of the world.

4 (one man and three women) are writing about relationships.

 

As many people are writing about sexual harassment and rape as are writing about loving relationships.

At that age most people are writing about what they know/experience. 

 

Sexual harassment, sexual assault, rape is pervasive in young women lives.

 

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

10 minutes ago, darr said:

On this point, I was thinking that if BN  was once SH's tenant,won't he be able to recognise him? 

My annoyance is that they are making such a handsome guy a bad boy. He is too sweet. 

 

I'm sorry the more dangerous/deadly the character the more attractive the character needs to be.

 

What's the point in having an unattractive serial rapist?

 

There is a old idea that evil can be seen in the face as a lack of attractiveness.  Well evil can be very pretty.  It is evil's beauty that reel the victims in.

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

Oh boy, pass my bedtime but can't resist responding to the conversation about Woo Soo-Ji, since it echoed a conversation I had in playwriting class today.

 

A student is working on a play about a 22 year old woman who as just started grad school and her 22 year-old best-friend (with benefits) who want them to have an exclusive relationship.  Can't really go into the critique  of my student's work-in-progress here, but one reason Soo-Ji's not wanting a relationship works in My First Life   (and not in the draft of my student's play) is because Soo-Ji's motive is clear. The writer of My First Life has done an excellent job of showing the toxic patriarchal nature of the  workplace that Soo-Ji works in and thereby establish the risk to her career were she to DO anything that opened her up to rumors of her personal life. 

 

1) Soo-Ji is well-educated, ambitious, and a hard worker.  She has wanted to run her own company since adolescence and has put in the work to prepare to do that.

 

2) Despite the overwhelming sexist workplace environment where men drooling over her like vultures (do vultures drool?) over a carcass she has managed to do her work and advance by putting up with their disgusting sexual harassment without succumbing to a sexual relationship with any of them.

 

3) she is careful to keep her private lives and relationship away from the office so that no one knows anything about her life off the clock.  Even when they question her in situation that makes it impossible for her to avoid sharing her personal details without being rude, she does social jijutsu and avoid sharing without giving insult.

 

4) Then the sexual harasser put her on the spot by pressuring her to accept their "Friend" request you can she her squirm.  They wanted to friend so that they could see her private pictures and started fantasying about seeing her in a bikini. They were fantasying because she doesn't allow her to be seen like that.  

 

5) she does not have a reputation of sleeping her way to the top.  Until these unfounded rumors started it seems she was respected by at least one of her female colleagues.

 

6) she does not go braless to be sexy.  She does not like wearing bras.  She finds them uncomfortable. I suspect she also does not particularly like high heels. Those are a part of her work personae, as is her sleek ponytail.  She goes braless, free her hair,  and wears sneakers when she was hanging out with her friends. She probably slipped off her bra because it was uncomfortable not to be snaring men to sign contracts..

 

7) Soo-Ji is right. Historically when a sexual/romantic relationships goes bad in a work situation it is the woman (because she is usually the less valued) that is exiled from the organization.

 

8) Soo-Ji's has dedicated her life to her work ambition.  Why should she give up/risk her dream to be with a man who won't settle from what she is offering--friendship and sex, not a romantic partnership.

 

9) It is clear that her position at work is not secure, not because of her competency, but because of the rapacious work environment where men view women and flesh to satisfy their desire, and baubles to pretty up meetings.  The junior drooling dogs that roam the corridors of her workplace can't be dealt with through HR because their behavior is learnt from those at the very top.

 

Honestly I cannot understand how anyone would see Soo-Ji as doing anything to attract the attention of her male co-workers.  It is clear she views them with contempt and work as hard as she can to create barriers that keep them out of her life.  She knows they are dangerous to her physical safety.  When she realize that she was going to be working alone with one of them, she immediately chose to leave the office.  The idea of her dressing provocatively in the office is ludicrous. 

 

For people who don't get sexual harassment in the workplace or don't understand why women give in, Here is a story of sexual harassment of woman trapped who gave in a little to a powerful man get away. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/opinion/lupita-nyongo-harvey-weinstein.html

Here is a story of a woman who did not get away: 

https://www.newsday.com/entertainment/celebrities/annabella-sciorra-harvey-weinstein-raped-me-1.14663483

 

There are countless stories of women who had to give up their dreams because the octopus and stingrays that were the gatekeepers of their chosen profession.

 

It isn't just Hollywood. It happens in every profession where men hold the power.  it is crap like this that drive brilliant women from many profession. 

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/10/disturbing-allegations-sexual-harassment-antarctica-leveled-noted-scientist

 

Sometimes is seems that men commit sexual harassment and assaults but it is women that make the victims suffer with their idiotic and archaic views, if she dressed more conservatively then the wouldn't . . . 

1) Clothing do not cause rape; rapist cause rape.

 

2) Women are not things that are there for men's taking. 

 

3) If you like cake and you see a cake in a box that does not belong to you, do you take it or leave it alone? If you like cake and you see a cake outside of a box, maybe on a plate, and that cake does not belong to you, do you take it or leave it alone?  If you take it, is it the cake's fault for being outside the box or your fault for being a thief?

 

 

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

1 minute ago, hushhh said:

 

 

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

35 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

 

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

2 hours ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

 BUT rather..  a man who is super awesome at his job and he knows and the company knows that he is that ONE crucial resource, he has a very happy stable personal and professional life, he does what he wants, lives freely, if he doesn't like something he will not do it.. and basically whatever he wants whenver he gets it...has no sad stories about his life... he is absolutely gorgeous..and knows that

 

and YET you insist that he has inferiority complex for not being attractive

 

 FYI

 

Theodore Robert Bundy (born Theodore Robert Cowell; November 24, 1946 – January 24, 1989) was an American serial killer, kidnapper, rapist, burglar and necrophile who assaulted and murdered numerous young women and girls during the 1970s, and possibly earlier. Shortly before his execution—after more than a decade of denials—he confessed to 30 homicides committed in seven states between 1974 and 1978. The true victim count remains unknown, and could be much higher.

Bundy was regarded by many of his young female victims as handsome and charismatic, traits that he exploited to win their trust. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy

 

  31 minutes ago, enigmatic_zephy said:

aha.. and you see you heard what you wanted to hear..

1. You missed, BM saying that fake complaints are also rampant to which SH agrees to see if he has been blocked by another app... and they find only one other app which is a gaming app that seemed to block him ( could be the same girl who reported.. or two girls max.. now would a stalker stop at just 2 girls???

 

there is another thing...

 

with all this stalker conversations:

 

 

we are missing one very basic aspect of this drama..

this drama is simple..about everyday things..

 

stalker is not everyday thing.. that would be a major drift to introduce a plot point.. it is more in nature of the drama to show a man in love who is always so meticulous being so wrong about someone.. all because he was concerned for his wife

 

rather than actually put a stalker in the scene and then say that go hubby save your wife

 

I'm pretty sure BM is a stalker.

 

He was blocked by one other dating app and a gaming app.

 

1- He has seen Ji-Ho is clothes she has not worn around him (so he has been watching her without her knowledge).

2- He knows Se-Hee's signature when Se-Hee paid in cash during their one official interaction (so he's been tracking Se-Hee).

3- He knows more about their marriage than he should from his interactions with Ji-Ho.

 

I may not be a stalker but the evidence line up that way. 

 

While stalkers aren't everyday things for most people they are an issue on dating apps.  Dating creating apps is what Se-Hee does for a living.

 

SH waited and did not act on instinct or jealousy, he and his team gathered evidence and when they had a preponderance of evidence he acted.

 

People seem not to have heard that one of the crimes BM/stalkerperson was accused was kidnapping and rape. 

 

Also even if BM isn't a stalker/rapist.  He is a narcissist who is pursuing a newly married woman, who has said she is not interested in him. Stalker or not, he is a not a keeper, but a throw back in the great blue sea.

 

Since different types of relationships and the challenges the real world one face, it makes sense to explore the alternates ways of creating relationships.

 

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

I have nothing deep to say. No analysis. No unpopular opinions.

 

I really like this drama.

 

I love the writing and the actors' work.

 

It is a joy to see Jung So-Min light up the screen.  She is wonderful.  For me, she wasn't anywhere near all she could be in her last (Father) drama. I'm so glad this drama came along.

 

Lee Min-Ki is also excelling in his role.

 

I'm glad to be introduced to Esom. She is wonderful.  I love watching work.

 

Happy happy happy to be able to watch this drama after my very punishing Mondays and Tuesdays.

 

I'm still watching While You Were Sleeping and were I not head over heel with My First Life it would be my favorite.

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

I love the female friendship in this drama.

 

As much as I am enjoying this drama, I know that I am enjoying it because I anticipate SeHee changing. 

 

If this drama was a potential lover I'd run away because the rule is, never date anyone assuming they will change from who they show you to be into a prince charming.

[[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라]

I am enjoying this drama.

 

It isn't packed with razzle dazzle.

Instead it is self-assured and deliberate in the approach

You might even think it it on the verge of slipping into  being boring 

but it never does.

It is almost like a home cook meal.

There is nothing obviously exciting about it.

You might even approach it with a, "what again?"

Yet as you eat it you are engulfed in warmth and caring

At the end of it, you realize that the solidness of the experience has made you happy.

 

******************

Despite all that loveliness

It is a truly bad idea to marry someone to whom your appeal is that you make a great scullery maid.

It is a bad idea to marry someone just because they "need" you.

It is a bad idea to marry someone you love who does not love you.  

 

 

I'm going to try to work around those bad romantic myth and continue to enjoy the show. 

 

 

[[Drama 2017] While You Were Sleeping, 당신이 잠든 사이에]

My system is so slow it is not allowing me to backread.

 

It seems the future is not set.  It is dependent on a series of variable, therefore Woo-Tak and Hong-Joo were able to dream different future with different elements for the same event.

 

Even the future "kiss" dream was different for Hong-Joo and Jae-Chan, and neither vision of the future came through. The  future took the third path. 

 

So it seems the future is infinitely malleable, you just have to figure out the right  manipulation to get the desired outcome. 

 

[[Drama 2017] While You Were Sleeping, 당신이 잠든 사이에]

19 minutes ago, MissForsythia said:

Oh, we have the same theory here. While reading few of the comments here, a thought suddenly come to my mind. What if Woo Tak is that soldier's son? Goosebumps.If it is true, what will happen to the 3 of them?

 

i think that soldier may have great reason for AWOL. And their responsibility is to unfold that reason...

 

 

 

 

I suspect might be related to the soldier, but I think he might be too old to be his son.  Korean men who are professional soldiers tend to do their enlistment relatively young.

 

I wonder if what we know is all their is to know about the soldier and how he  relates to the precognition ability.

 

The reason i'm curious if Woo-Tak is related to the soldier is because if they were sticking to the formula his back story should have been shared by now so I feel it is suspicious that they haven't one so as yet.

35 minutes ago, skinnerbox said:

 

Isn't the dog's name Robin? The subs said 'Woo-bin' but the bowl had 'Robin'

 

The boy seems to like batman and superheroes 

I think the subber was listening so hard she wasn't paying attention to the visuals.

[[Drama 2017] While You Were Sleeping, 당신이 잠든 사이에]

wow 130 pages.

the series has fans

and it deserves them

 

Jae-Chan and Hong -Joo  link seems to  relate to losing a parent on the same day by the same killer. (Even though Hong-Joo precognitive dreams preceded her father's death. They haven't made that connection as yet.

 

We know at least three people were killed by the soldier that day, Jae-Chan and Hong-Joo's father and the soldier.  I wonder if Woo-Tak is related to the soldier.

 

Also I think proximity triggers the precognition ability. Jae-Chan didn't have precognition dreams until he moved next to Hong-Joo. Woo-Tak didn't have the dreams until he met Jae-Chan and Hong-Joo.

 

We still have no idea why the soldier did what he did.

[[Drama 2017] Chicago Typewriter 시카고 타자기]

I finished watching the series.

Well, not really.

I mostly skipped episode 15.  I couldn't deal with the torture. So I had the episode on in the background and would glance at it every now and then when it was safe.

Episode 16 gave my tear ducts a good work out. Such beautiful writing. Assumed early on that Shin Yool was who Seol/Soo-hyun had shot.  That would have explained her trauma around shooting and his not remembering how he died.

As painful as it was to watch I'm glad the script didn't cop-out and not have Soo-hyun punish the folks who betrayed the movement, regardless of how justified their actions were. Both bullets broke my heart.  

In truth, there is no reason to assume that Soo-hyun did not climb back down that mountain and went on with her life, but the way she fell asleep against the tree and no indication of her life after, makes me wonder if she died there.

There is something sublime about the solution for Jin Oh fate is to have him kept safe in a book. It works well with the series theme about the importance to stories and knowing your history.  My one wish is that Se-joo had put him in a story with a happier ending. Although it might have messed with the integrity of the story I really wish that I could be sure that Shin Yool/Jin Oh would reincarnate. 

It was satisfying when SeJu told Jin Oh how much love and faith Hwi-young had for Shin Yool.  It was even more satisfying when SeJu differentiate that from the love he had for Jin Oh.  It wasn't a remembered affection.  SeJu met and loved Jin Oh, not because of what he had done in the past, or because his past self loved him, but who SeJu knows, Jin Oh to be.

Episode 15 deserved to be seen and episode 16 should be watched again for beauty of the story, the writing and the acting, but honestly I can't go through that emotional wringer again.

Chicago Typewriter was a wonderful  with great heroes both male and female.  If anything our 1930s heroine was more independent and badass than our contemporary heroine. It was a great exploration of love, romantic and platonic. 

 

Spoiler

 

[[Drama 2017] Chicago Typewriter 시카고 타자기]

On 4/23/2017 at 2:17 AM, hushhh said:

New edits in this color.

 As someone wrote previously I don't think Bang Jin knows the people she is seeing are ghosts. The way she dropped the information on her mom and her mom's reaction suggest this might be a new development.  Is that is true it opens the question, why now? what was the trigger? Interesting this this turns out to be true.

I know that Jeon Seol had problems with "seeing" or "sensing" something relating to her killing in a past life.  I wonder why she doesn't sense Yoo Jin-O?

This hasn't  been proven as yet but the series seems to be moving in that direction.  I thought having Seol pointing a gun at 1930's Han Se-Joo was very likely a misdirection because it happened so soon in the series. 

On 4/23/2017 at 2:17 AM, hushhh said:

Without any evidence to support it, and in what would be the obvious arch, I think the person Jeon Seol killed in a past life who didn't deserve it is Yoo Jin-O. It would explain why he doesn't remember how he died, because that fact would be something so psychologically wounding that for sanity's sake he would repress it.  Also YJO being back might explain JS being able to return to a profession she was trained to do.

 

 

I really love how SeJoo was able to give a logical reinterpretation of their "ill-fated" connection to Seol in episode 11.  Accidents aren't happening because she brings him bad luck, but rescues happens because she bring him good luck.--excellent writing. 

 

[[Drama 2017] Chicago Typewriter 시카고 타자기]

@packmule3

 

Confession: I am not a careful detailed watcher in general and I've gotten worse over time.

 A friend gave me this as a gift and I try not to think about what her comment on my time management stills were.  It no longer works, which I find appropriate. So I keep it around. [That comment has nothing to do with anything.but why not make it.]

Things I'll continue to question . . . 

1) Han Se-Joo  might have written his magnus opus but it was stolen by Tae-Min which is why he longer has the courage go go "deep" when writing.

2) Why four Western writers as heroes? No Eastern writer's made the cut?

3) Why do people still romanticize artists' mental illness and addiction.  I'm not convinced you have to have these kinds of issue to create well.  Those issues are often an obstacles to creative production.  FSFitzgerald might have written more had he been sober more frequently-- or not.

4) People may not get O'Neill but then they really don't get Shakespeare.  They know understanding Shakespeare has some cache so they try harder with him.  O'Neill can seem dated, okay be dated but he was revolutionary in his time. He took on difficult subject and wrote strong, difficult women. [Mary Tyrone had a raging heroin addiction and it is her play.] Off the cuff, without checking--I should but I won't, I'd say three of those writers [not Hemingway] were famous for the women they wrote about or the women who affected their lives. [Joyce/Molly Bloom, Fitzgerald/ Zelda + Daisy Buchanan. O'Neill/Mary Tyrone, Josie Hogan , and others. 

 

 

On 4/29/2017 at 0:30 AM, packmule3 said:

Hi there @triplem

Just temporarily delurking and tagging you because you mentioned on another thread   that you had questions about this kdrama. Now, I’m going out on a limb here but did your questions concern the ghostwriter Jin-Oh’s scenes with the Se-Ju’s agent Gal Ji-Seok and Se-Ju’s mentor/surrogate father? Like, how are these two men able to see Jin-Oh if JO is only a ghost? Do these men have special powers, too?

If you rewatch those scenes again, I think you’ll notice that Gal Ji-Seok never actually acknowledges JO’s presence. It’s a nice camera trick, though. When Ji-Seok walks out of the mansion, JO approaches him as if he’s been waiting for him to come out of the mansion. Then they both casually walk together. Gal Ji-Seok is expressing relief for evading SJ’s wrath, and JO interjects comments as if he’s part of Gal Ji-Seok’s conversation.  In reality, Gal Ji-Seok is only muttering to himself.  He doesn’t spare JO a glance the whole time.    

Same thing with the surrogate father, Baek Do-Ha. What he sees under the table isn’t JO, but the manuscript “Fate” which JO is sitting on. Baek Do-Ha is upset when he sees the manuscript.  Why? Because it’s evidence incriminating his son, and he thinks Se-Ju should have known better and should have disposed of it to prevent embarrassment and damage to his son’s and family’s reputation.  

But in regards to who this Ghostwriter Jin-Oh actually is, I don’t know yet.

He IS definitely a real phenomenon, and not something that Se-Ju is seeing simply because he’s having a nervous breakdown. The Chicago café owner didn’t imagine his encounter with the night-poltergeist. 

But right now, FOR ME, it’s possible that the:

1. Ghostwriter is a separate entity, an actual ghost of a friend of Se-Ju in the 1930s. Or,

2. The Ghostwriter is his ALTEREGO.  You see, Se-Ju has suppressed a lot of emotions to become the successful writer that he is now. And it’s possible that seeing that old typewriter again, his “old friend,” has reminded him – or TRIGGERED since we’re talking of Chicago Typewriter and machine guns – him of what it is to be a real writer again creating stories with his very own SOUL. The Ghostwriter JO is Se-Ju’s spiritual or ghostly manifestation of his attempt to break-away from the exhausting demands of being famous writer and to find his "real self" again. This explains why the Ghostwriter tells Se-Ju that he’s only typing words that Se-Ju has written himself. (It's literally true. Lol.) And that the Ghostwriter doesn’t know the ending (because it's up to Se-Ju). 

Also, both "theories" (Ghostwriter is a separate being vs Ghostwriter is alterego) can explain Jeon Seol’s double vision in Episode 2. Remember: in Episode 2, when Jeon Seol is pointing the gun at the stalker and having a flashback, she can’t tell who she’s pointing the gun at. 

She’s seeing double: she’s seeing the images of Ghostwriter JO and 1930’s Se-Ju from behind. Her vision can either mean: that her recollection of the past is hazy (and she can’t remember who she’s trying to kill as the traitor/Japanese collaborator) OR that, in her subconscious, she’s PERCEIVED the Ghostwriter Jin-Oh and the 1930’s Se-Ju to be one and the same person.

Anyway, it’s too early FOR ME to choose sides. But I’m simply tossing out both ideas to you, @bebe1989 and others who are open to different interpretation of the same scenes.  

Another thing:  Time pieces.  Notice the clocks hanging in the café and Salvador Dali’s melting clock in the foreground in Episode 1 during the book-signing event in Episode 1? I think the clocks as prop are deliberate, especially the melting clock.  That melting clock is from Dali’s famous surrealist painting called “Persistence of Memory”. I only saw it once in New York, decades ago, so the details of the painting are fuzzy now. But I remember admiring Dali’s sense of humor. He said that the inspiration for the clock (or let’s say, his “muse”) was Camembert cheese melting in the hot sun.  

And I also remember thinking what a brilliant way of proving a point: TIME is literally…errr, visually, MELTING AWAY.  You see, for me, the central message of that painting was that our interpretation of daily events can be confused or distorted or colored by our memories of the past. That is, the “persistence of memories” intrude in the present time, making it harder for people to discern, grasp or understand reality for what it truly is. 

And I think this is one of the major themes of the show Chicago Typewriter: memory. 

We see that Seo-Ju’s having a difficult time differentiating reality from the past. He doesn’t know if he has dreamed of it before, or has read of it before, or has lived through it before.  For him, an action that is happening in REAL-TIME becomes mixed-up -- or fused -- with an identical and corresponding action that occurred in past. Like the ghostwriter JO, his memories persist in haunting him. 

So it’s going to be interesting how he deals with recovering his past suppressed memories. 

 

 

@bebe1989 and @CatchMine_ID:

I can't write long now (hahaha) because of -- what else? -- work. I'm only posting this now and will edit/revise/clarify later. So hang in there.   

When I brought up the definition of Chicago Typewriter, I had only seen the title and hadn't watched a single episode of the kdrama. I didn’t know that the writer and I were on the same wavelength, and that we both understood the historical context of a manual typewriter from Chicago.  

So here’s another factoid (or factoidS, I can't count). Since I’ve watched all six episodes, I know these haven’t been mentioned in the story, and I won’t be repeating anything, like a nag. 

The portraits on the wall – from left to right:

James Joyce, Irish writer. Famous for the novel, Ulysses. Known for the “stream of consciousness” style of writing. Meaning, the written words try to mirror the character’s FLOW of thoughts. A paragraph can run on and on, without breaks in the sentences or periods, and the topic jumps from one thing to another, which is confusing for readers – just like our active minds have no order.  

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The three portraits on the other wall are portraits of American writers.  BTW, all four writers were known alcoholics. They battled their alcohol addiction just as they battled with the written words: daily.  

Ernest Hemingway. Famous for the novels, "Old Man and the Sea," "Farewell to Arms," and "For Whom the Bell Tolls." Known for his journalistic way of writing. Journalistic meaning the “who, what, when, where and why” are delivered in succinct and staccato style.  

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F. Scott Fitzgerald. Known for The Great Gatsby, considered the greatest American novel in the literary world because of the way it depicted American decadence vs American idealism. I actually talked about this is the Warm and Cozy romcom thread. His wife, and love of his life, Zelda, had schizophrenia and he took care of her. I thought it was interesting that, from a bystander’s point of view, Se-Ju appears to be suffering from a split personality, too. 

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I love how his hairstyle looks like devil's horns on the portrait hanging in Se-Ju's wall. 

 

Eugene O’Neill. He was a playwright who won many accolades: Pulitzer and Nobel prizes. The literary world considers him to be the American equivalent of Shakespeare. But to be brutally honest, I think his plays are overrated.

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Overrated. Look: if the regular folks don’t line up to watch his plays, and only the same group of intellectual elites care enough watch them and dissect the plays’ meaning, then the playwright failed to connect and be relevant.  For me, what good are the awards and coronations, when the writer’s words fail to leave an IMPACT on people’s lives? Or to put it in kdrama context: what good is it to put on a brilliant kdrama when it can only pull in 0.01% of viewers? Or worse, when only 0.01 of the viewers UNDERSTAND its meaning? See that?

 

 

Anyway, Eugene O’Neill is known to “haunt” the hotel where he died. The hotel is now a residence hall in Boston University…lol.  

Which brings me to a minor thing -- the ghostwriter’s name: 

In O’Neill’s most famous play, Long Day’s Journey into the Night, the female protagonist was told to forget the past, and she replied with deathlike calm. “Why? How can I? The past is the present, isn't it? It's the future, too. We all try to lie out of that but life won't let us.”  This is a famous quote, and in a sense, I think it’s fitting that the Ghostwriter’s name is a play on Eugene O’Neill’s name. 

Because you see, Se-Ju is himself fighting the ghosts of his past – not just the 1930s/Japanese-imperial-era/reincarnated spirit-world past – but his past troubled life as an abandoned child and youth. He’s battling these specters (or “issues” as people say nowadays) because he’s been living a life of lies. His PERSONAL past IS very much connected to his present, and it will be in the future, too. 

On the surface, he seemed to have everything made: He’s rich. He’s disciplined. He churns out stories with precision. He doesn’t have writer’s block or writer’s weakness for addiction like booze and cigarettes. He takes good care of his body and image. He has a huge following. He’s got solid contracts, thanks to his agent. And his life is well-oiled machine, thanks to his secretary. He’s a famous, world-renowned writer, comparable to Stephen King. 

But he’s been living a lie.  I think, even from the beginning of the drama, this “delusion” of his greatness was foreshadowed.  That impressive fight scene at the beginning of Episode 1??

To me, that whole scene is a figment of HIS imagination. It didn't happen. Lol.

I don’t think Se-Ju’s such a great fighter himself. Several incidents belie that. For instance, when he and Jeon Seol are chasing the dog. lol. His running form is klutzy, and he appears out of breath. Then, when he’s attacked by the stalker. It’s Jeon Seol who finds the gun in the dark, like a ninja. And he’s seems to be cowering in the dark, when the lights turn on. He doesn’t even have the wits to call the police; Jeon Seol has to remind him. Also, when he’s stressed out, he faints. Like, when he imagines that Jeon Seol hitting him with the shovel, and when realizes that he’s been conversing with a real ghost.  He’s hardly a brave, quick-thinking, cool street fighter that we see at the beginning of the Episode 1. 

Furthermore, his success as a writer is a lie. Despite his fame and fortune, he really hasn’t written THE greatest story of his life. His tour de force, or that all-moving, all-powerful, literary chef-d'oeuvre, is yet to be written.

Jeon Seol’s friend, Bang-Jin, hints at this. In Episode 1, she scoffs at Se-Ju’s books, and I think it's because as a writer herself, she understands that Se-Ju's books are a “sold out” (meaning they’re guaranteed blockbusters) AND a “sellout” (meaning, they’re sold because of popularity, not because of its literary value. The writer has betrayed the craft).  Of course, Jeon Seol defends her writer-idol and refuses to listen to Bang-Jin’s honest appraisal.  But Bang-Jin’s is right. So far, Se-Ju’s been re-living his old 1930s self and writing stories to seduce women and to gain fortune. The Chicago cafe book signing is proof of that.

Also, did you notice that Se-Ju hasn’t come up with any ORIGINAL thoughts on writing yet? He’s been quoting from other famous writers, like Chateaubriand, Steven King, Louis L’Amour, Hemingway… because he hasn’t come up with his OWN insight on writing.  Up until now, he’s been writing pulp fiction. And when Jeon Seol asked him what kind of writer he wanted to be, his answer was so banal.  He said, while looking at his REFLECTION in the mirror: to write well (or something just as shallow).  In other words, no… I mean, in his OWN WORDS, he has no idea what he truly wants. Lol.  He has to quote and borrow somebody else’s words to sound profound.   

Which brings me to this:

Why did I bother to mention all the writers on the wall? Lol. (Honest: I’m not trying to be a twit, or an insufferable bore.) Those men are Se-Ju’s “idols”. He looks up to them, he wants to be like them, he seeks to emulate them. 

But he’s sooo different from them. Those four men lived tortured lives. They had enormous inner conflicts, troubled memories, and personal specters. And the reason these writers became famous writers is because they wrote what they personally wrestled with every single day. They were authentic.  

In contrast, Se-ju writes to ESCAPE his unresolved issues, secret demons, and his dysfunctional family. He avoids struggles and pain with his writing.

One, he does “research” because he himself hasn’t personally LIVED through the stories he narrates. Two, he "rewards" himself with gorgeous pastry, fine coffee and a cinnamon stick after each deadline met, as if meeting that deadline is simply another mission accomplished. Three, he doesn't break a “sweat” while writing his fiction; there's no "blood equity." Four, remember his confrontation with his stalker? The heinousness of mass murder -- and that his stalker was influenced by his writing -- so shocked him as if the concept of such evil existing in the world is alien for a crime-fiction writer....    

And last but not the least, there isn’t angst or desperation involved in his writing; his emotions aren’t ruffled so he doesn't even pause in deep thought or brooding silence when he types away.

Remember what he said during the fight scene? He said he has to protect his notes, his hands, and, most importantly he says, his head, because these are important to his livelihood. 

But I personally think he’s forgotten the most essential of all, for any writer: the soul.    

He’s missing his soul. And the Ghostwriter, whether by accident or be design, is there to give it back to him.

In the 1930s past, the Chicago Typewriter is the gift that starts Se-Ju off to becoming a great writer. He has this “flashback” in Episode 6 of the true significance of the Chicago Typewriter to him.  But I want to call it his “flash of inspiration.”  Every time, he gets a flashback, he also acquires an inspiration to his story. So, let’s see if his discovery that the Chicago Typewriter is gift will inspire him to find what he’s been missing for a long time now: his soul... A soul which hasn’t been used for quite some time.   

And didn’t you notice? In Episode 2, the shaman mother of Bang-Jin asks Jeon Seol if she delivered an urn. Jeon Seol didn’t deliver an urn, she delivered a typewriter.

For all intents and purposes, the typewriter did indeed contain a dead soul. Whose soul is it? To me, whether it belongs to this actual Ghostwriter named "Yoo Jin-Oh" (lol. The name he gives to Bang-Jin is "yoo" or YOU in English, which I thought was clever, because he can be the Writing Spirit that SHE prayed for.)  or to Se-Ju himself (because he's in need of his alterego) remains to be seen for now. 

Off to a meeting now. Will edit and revise later.

Have a good weekend, y'all.  

***************************************

Tagging some people: 
@Berou (this is what I was obsessing about in that other thread...) @MadraRua hello. 

@staygold liked your Liar and Lover post. Will comment this weekend.  

@phikyl @fikachuuu @nonski (yes, will look at that kdrama, too. Thanks for the tag. Will see if I can watch before my flight. Although I so detest having to cover my ipad from nosy people trying to look over my shoulders to sneak a look at what I'm doing.... What I watch or read or write is absolutely none of their business.... lol) 
@hushhh @lynne22 @onlysb1 @romanov (I'm here, and at Liar and His Lover) @nearsea (for when she returns ) 

[[Drama 2017] Chicago Typewriter 시카고 타자기]

I am really enjoying the 1930s arc of the drama.

Warmth and richness of the friendship between the leads is satisfying to watch.  It unexpected that the 1930s story as less screen time but I feel as if I understand the relationship better.

7 hours ago, Yongzura said:

Now, another question is playing in my mind.... Does Bang Jin know she can see a ghost?  I'm bewildered about that.  We know she can, but does she know she can.  Every time she meet YJO she does not act like she know she has the ability to see a ghost.  She acted as though she was meeting a real person, that's why she was hurt when YJO asked her about JS and told JS someone wanted to see her.

Hmmm.... and does her mother know that she really can see a ghost?  I need to watch it again... 

 As someone wrote previously I don't think Bang Jin knows the people she is seeing are ghosts. The way she dropped the information on her mom and her mom's reaction suggest this might be a new development.  Is that is true it opens the question, why now? what was the trigger?

I know that Jeon Seol had problems with "seeing" or "sensing" something relating to her killing in a past life.  I wonder why she doesn't sense Yoo Jin-O?

6 hours ago, salz said:

Lot of interesting theory above about their past death which make a lot of sense and could be close to what really happened..

And guilt might definitely play big part of why Yoo can't reborn&lock in the typewriter needing the novel to finish by the incarnation of the original writer, Seol forever feel guilty because of her killing and SJ could have different guilt since he should be the main reason of whatever occur in past and the person who make Seol&Yoo can't move on so he need to be the one who end it through the novel. 

Well the mystery thicken but that what make it interesting I prefer to know the answer much later though so can enjoy the mystery and guessing longer to keep me interested 

Spoiler

Without any evidence to support it, and in what would be the obvious arch, I think the person Jeon Seol killed in a past life who didn't deserve it is Yoo Jin-O. It would explain why he doesn't remember how he died, because that fact would be something so psychologically wounding that for sanity's sake he would repress it.  Also YJO being back might explain JS being able to return to a profession she was trained to do.

I suppose forgiveness all around is what will be needed for YJO to move on.

 

I am so relieved that Gal Ji-Seok hadn't hired a ghost writer against Han Se-Joo wishes.

[[Drama 2017] Chicago Typewriter 시카고 타자기]

3 hours ago, packmule3 said:

I'm just about to write to @hushhh to tell her that I'm going to check out Chicago Typewriter tonight.  Thanks for the invite, and I'll see you later, dear!

By the way, people do know that a "Chicago typewriter" isn't a old-style keyboard machine from a city in Illinois, right? It's a machine gun (also known as Tommy machine gun) used by gangsters in Chicago. When it's fired, it produces a loud burst of sound, which people say, is similar to the clacking of typewriter.

 They mentioned that in the first episode.

I haven't seen the last to episode.

The semester is ending plus a ton of performance related obligation is eating my clock and leaving little time behind.

[[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비]

21 minutes ago, makeuptemple said:

I am trying to get one thing, when Sunny & GRP meet at the bridge, she said I am counting to 50 before I leave, when she was still counting 47, 48.. we see GRP, they hugged each other and Sunny said I am not going to see you again in this life time. they hugged each other said good bye, and GRP said the news about her will arrive late, did she killed herself or was she death at that moment?

second I thought GRP are immortals When GRP received a card, he took of his dress and hat. Told KS that do not make so much rain etc. And went to his room where he works and Sunny entered from the other door, so he received a death card.  I was crying so much at that time barely read the subs. I watched that ep 3 times and each time I was bawling..   @janeeta @maryofbethany can you enlighten please  

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Grim Reapers souls are paying for their sin of suicide. The have an allotted amount of time in torment and then an allotted amount of time on probation as grim reapers.  It seems once they have served their sentences they reincarnated like other souls. Wang Yeo sentence was up.  

So technically they are not immortals, they are just longlived.

 

[[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비]

On 1/23/2017 at 9:54 AM, fikachuuu said:

While I agree with most of what you said (I'm pretty Sunny biased myself ), I would like to interject with the reason she left was because she was too heartbroken to see him but rather because she did not want to give herself an excuse to see grim reaper because I think she must have a feeling that what they're doing is forbidden and might warrant punishment upon GR. So basically she was trying to protect him like how she did during Goryeo, sacrificing herself in order to not become his weakness (that PJW can exploit although I agree with what was said in an earlier post way back that it was pretty fatalistic of her to do so). Remember she wrote the open letter to Grim reaper via radio (Sorry I don't know what's it called)? She mentioned in the letter that she (to me it kinds of doubles as a prayer to divinity of sorts) hopes that in their next life they would be able to meet again with new names, the wait short and their meeting long. This seems to me as if she knows that she still has a next life to go to, that she can still be reincarnated. Therefore, I think the reason she chose to leave and not see GR in this lifetime is because she wanted  to give them a better chance at being together in the next (by not doing what is considered forbidden, GRs afterall are considered sinners, they shouldn't be enjoying life now but yearning for it instead).

Edit (Computer just submitted my reply without my permission -_-).

Besides that, I agree with @hushhh that Wang yeo/Lee Hyuk is a passive character.  Therefore he is the passive one in his relationship with Sunny being the one who takes the lead in the relationship.

In Goryeo: The first time that she showed that characteristic of hers of taking the lead was when she refused to wait for the king to come to her but instead ran to meet him and ended up meeting him in the middle. She also confronted the PJW on the unjust execution (even though she kind of lost on that one?). She told the king upfront that his enemy is PJW and not her brother Kim Shin and several times advised him to rethink his royal decrees (like the execution of the ministers).  Perhaps she could have found another way to protect WY and her brother at the same time instead of sacrifing her self but it could be because she was young and naive at the time. 

In present timeline: She showed this characteristic by refusing to go by her original name (due to it being sad sounding) and changes it to something that sounds more cheery. She asked divinity (even though she is not aware that she was talking to him) to p**s off and leave her life alone as she knows how to take care of her life herself lol. And she was the one who initiated to leave (probably also because she knows that GR could not do so since he doesn't have anywhere else to go) so that she can move on her life without GR and give them both a better chance at a better next life. (At least that is my assumption)

In reincarnation timeline: Even after a lifetime she's still the one leading (or taking charge in) the relationship by nudging him if he wants to progress in the relationship, bringing him to a motel (Lol you so agressive Sunny) and buying him couple bracelets so that she can claim him hers (I find that it's more like her arresting him then him arresting her even though she was the one who asks him to do so.) So even though WY is no longer gullible but confident and even acting cool he still just follows her lead willingly lol. (I daresay that if PJW wasn't in the picture in Goryeo, it would be Kim Sun who would be his main influence since in subsequent lives it is shown that he just follows what she says lol). And not to forget Sunny's the one saying all those cheesy lines to WY/Lee Hyuk like "How dare you say I look like a criminal? Did I steal your heart or something?" and "Think of it as a handcuff, you stole my heart" when she gave him the bracelet as well as, when WY/Lee Hyuk asked if it's a bribe, she simply says "Then arrest me then". Lolol 

So Sunny being the agressive one while WY being the somewhat passive one means that they're made for each other haha. I guess opposites attract in their case.  And by WY initiating in pulling her into a kiss at the end, I feel that it shows that he has finally let Sunny's aggressiveness rub off on him and now he's the one taking charge. hehe.

 

I would just out point, for my analysis Sunny only exist in the contemporary timeline.

Though I might accept that it is Sunny in the future time line since she did not drink of forgetfulness. 

Sunny's lack of independent autonomy/goals/desire is a standard problem with female characters, especially 2nd female leads who just have plot function, but no personal aspiration. All they do is try to get the male lead's affection and block the female lead's progress.  

My point might be clearer if you look at it in reverse.

Weightlifting Fairy Kim Bok-Joo.  In that show (it's a good drama) the rom-com poles are reverse.  The female lead Bok-Joo is the center of story.  She is fully autonomous.  She has multiple goals beyond her romantic relationship. She  has family loyalty and obligations, she had professional goals and her romantic dreams are secondary to both of these for much of drama. The male lead Jung Joon-Hyung, takes the "female" position in the relationship.  He too has family obligations and professional goals and well as romantic aspiration.  But once he recognized his romantic aim puts his professional aspiration behind him and puts all his energy into his romantic relationship/girlfriend. We rarely see him in pursuit of his professional ambition (training as a swimmer). He drops everything, except his family issues, to run toward Bok-Joo if he suspects she is in trouble.

Unlike Sunny, Jung Joon-Hyung does have personal ambitions and emotional relationship outside of Bok-Joo.  Sunny does not.

Contrast Sunny with EunTak as a character.  EunTak has relationships outside of Kim Shin. She has bullies at school, she has ghost friends, she has avaricious family members. She has goals outside of Shin, she has her college exam, she has her dream to work in radio.  She studies. This is a character that is multifaceted. 

Kim Shin.  He has a sister he cares for.  He has "people" he watch over and protect. He has a goal he is seeking. He has an "enemy" he loves.  He has mistakes in the past he wants to resolve. We see him in relationships that have nothing to do with EunTak and goals that have nothing to do with EunTak because he is a fully developed character.

Wang Yeo.  He has his relationship with Shin.  He has a relationship with DH.  He has a relationships with EunTak and Shin where he grow as a character so that instead of following the rules he makes the decision to break the rules and protect EunTak.  This is action outside of his relationship with Sunny.  He has his relationships at work.  We see him interact with the newly dead express reactions to their fate.  We get to know him independent from Sunny. Multifaceted.

Sunny? She waits. She wants Wang Yeo to be happy.  And . . .    That's what i mean that she is not a fully developed character.

 

@selenette @phikyl @packmule3

[[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비]

5 minutes ago, NRGchick said:

Talking about that scene with the mysterious CEO. They must have reshot the scene. 

As shown in Ep 5 - future sequence. 

 

She turns to wave at the CEO.

 

In Ep 15.

 

 

They most likely did several different takes at time and used different ones in the different episodes.

[[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비]

@gamshe

1- to be clear nothing I have said about Sunny is about the female actor or her work. My analysis is not even meant to be a criticism of the writer to whom I am grateful for having created the work that has given so much pleasure. 

2- I am not looking at the work through a  script analysis lens, but instead analyzing as story analysis. Meaning I am not examining plot points details in depth but trying to understand how different element comes together to leave the audience with a theme/ the author's message.

More under the spoiler.

Spoiler

I'm glad you see the drama in a way that give you pleasure, as my way of seeing it does me. 

Of the seven "universal" stories possible, (I don't necessarily agree to the number) The major one is this drama is Quest. More specifically the Goblin's quest. Wang isn't questing, it is much too passive for that.  EunTak might be questing but her major arc is growing up. 

The Goblin goes on a quest and gains what he did not seek and is all the better for it--like all quest.

Wang Yeo's story is a rebirth story.

Eun Tak is a coming of age story

Sunny has no story, no journey, no change.  Again if people can show me evidence otherwise I'm happy to  read the analysis.    

@AddictedToDramas wrote a convincing post that made me see the value in Eun Tak's death and clarify her story for me. So I am receptive to evidence.

Because of conditions/situation my watching of episodes 14, 15, 16 was less than attentive, but the overall points I'm making should not change too much on re-viewing since I'm not really talking about plot points. 

I'll address your specific points within your post.

But my hypotheses on Sunny is, despite YIN lovely work, Sunny's presence on the contemporary time line was not crucial to tell the story of the Wang Yeo. You make some of my points as to why she was not necessary.  

To understand my point it is important to know that I do not see Kim Sun and Sunny as the same person.  Sunny does not see them as the same person.  At some point Kim Sun's soul drank of forgetfulness.  Kim Sun's soul was reincarnated either once or twice since being with Wang Yeo, and even if the essence of Sunny is the same as Kim Sun, their personalities is  not the same.

Therefore I never said that Kim Sun was necessary.  I said all the Goryeo characters were underdeveloped, but I never said any was unnecessary.

On 1/23/2017 at 8:33 AM, gamshe said:

 

I am here to disagree!  

While I also think KES could explore her and WangSun's story more and better, I think she was more than a conflict. What I mean by she is the reason for conflict is that she was the catalyst for action, but she herself did not engage in any action.  She was the core reason of WY having a second chance at life and love. [Foil's role] He regretted his sins towards her the most, leading to suicide, leading to being a grim reaper, leading to become an empty book. What did she do? Empty book as in a new oppurtunity to write it better. It led to meeting her and Kim Shin again. Led to meeting good friends like Euntak and Deokhwa.  This is about Wang Yeo, you are describing the fullness of Sunny as a character but you are mostly talking about Wang Yeo. Because of his feelings towards her, whether it be love or being sorry, he was given a second chance to face his sins, forgive himself, make peace with Kim Shin [again this  is about Wang Yeo] and treat and love Sunny better. How did he treat Sunny better? He left her alone. Well that is better than having an archer kill her, but truly he was never there for her. Unless you consider stalking her being their for her. I think that is kind of creepy myself. He was given a chance to live a better life. He was given a chance to help kill the eunuch and protect his loved ones since he couldn't do it as WY. What did Sunny actually do? You are talking about how Sunny affected Wang Yeo and supporting my contention that she is a foil.

What you are describing here is not a fully developed character but a foil created to glorify another character.  You are not describing Sunny's as an autonomous entity but as a character created to show the growth of another more important character. This is called the typical "girlfriend/wife" role.  It can pay well, but many actresses find it unsatisfying artistic work. 

In Jerry McQuire Renee Zellwelger played a foil to help the Tom Cruise character develop into better human being. In Bridget Jones Renee Zellwelger played a flawed person in need of growth.  One sure sign of a foil is the character that is all knowing/all caring.  Their perfection renders them incapable of growth and often hides the fact that their depth is paper deep.  

She was this bright young woman who had to be brave at such a young age towards an awful human who had all the power in his hands. She never wanted to be queen and carry all the hardships it caused but still she tried to do her best. She never received love from WY, at least not in a traditional way since WY almost never showed it but she was so willing to love him and show it. She waited and waited for him to come see her while also being worried about him. And as soon as she heard that he came, she ran to him to meet in the middle. This is not Sunny.  This is Kim Sun.  They are not the same.

Kim Shin says in ep 13; ''My young sister protected you with her life. I am sure my sister knew that once Park Joon Won said ''Kim Shin''  that ''Kim Sun'' would be next. That she would be used to pressure you. That's why that idiot died there as the sister of a traitor, rather than becoming your weakness. To save you.'' This is the role of the catalyst.  She is the reason things happen.  Here Kim Sun serves as the reason for the conflict.  Her she is not in (fighting) conflict (there are times when Kim Sun was engaged in a conflict, but this point you are making reinforces her role of giving Wang Yeo and Kim Shin something to fight about.  If she didn't exist, the men would be fighting over political power and the "war" would be less poignant. She loved WY and she was the only good thing in his life. She was the only person who showed him the love she had. She was the only thing in WY's life that made him better (at least tried) and more human. She also carried this purpose by being in GR's life too. She was the connection to the human life, she was the only human in GR's life, and an effective one. Again this is Kim Sun, not Sunny.  Even so you are writing about how she serves Wang Yeo.  Reverse the exercise and discuss how Wang Yeo foster something in Kim Sun or Sunny. 

I also do not think that her leaving was an another reason to make Wookie cry. [That was a joke, built on truth.  What did her leaving do for her? If anything, this was the most decisive action she took in the drama, and doing it made her disappear from the story.  It reinforces my view that she has no story. If she did we would see her growth after she decided not to spend all her time waiting.] Her leaving showed that she was just too heartbroken to face him. Some people here thinks she never forgave him. But I think that she never even blamed him. She said that every moment with him, even with all that hardship, she was happy. Even while dying, the only think she thought was if WY was sad too, because she only saw his back. Even when they confronted eachother at the bridge, she wiped his tears in an affectionate manner while saying ''You should have noticed it earlier.'' when he said he was a fool. She was like a shelter to him, both in Goryeo and modern times. Because while everyone was against him (KS and ET, it was only natural for them) she was the only one to wipe his tears and when he was dealing with all of the pressure from PJW, she was a door to smile even a bit. Even after dying, she was WY's only way to become easeful even a bit; remember the scene where he laid next to her painting. Opposite to Euntak, she had to stay in between KS and GR. As she said, she was both the sister of the traitor, and the person who loves WY. This is classic girlfriend role.  Not human being but girlfriend which in movies is a lesser human whose only function is to make the person they love happy.

She left but she was still sad to leave, as seen when she wanted to hug GR and when she cried after leaving several times. But as GR says, she is good at leaving. Because she believes in her decisions and acts according to them. And she was the only reason who protected herself from the deity in a way. Because she wanted to deal with her life herself. She did not want to forget her memories. She did not want anyone deciding things for her. And the deity said that he understands and never erased her memories. Even after dying.

That's why I think she and GR never forgot their memories. I am sorry I don't remember why Sunny's memory survive the god's returning everyone's to blank slate.  BUT Wang Yeo got  his memory back as punishment -- it wasn't a choice he made.  He might have been happy to have them back, but it wasn't his choice.  Sunny originally retained her memory because Wang Weeper's phrasing of leaving her with good memories and erasing the bad during his memory wipe. He did not understand that even the pain with him had an element of joy for Sunny. Unless there is something I missed both Wang Yeo and Sunny memory retention was passive and due to happenstance.  Contrast that with EunTak.  Her memory retention was an active struggle.  When she realize that she would forget Shin she fought against fate to WRITE IT DOWN. EunTak fought to keep her memories.  She fought for her love as did Shin. Wang Yeo and Sunny never did.  They brooded and did not act.  Kim Sun acted.  Not Sunny. Some people think that they did because Sunny would want to but I don't agree. They never drank the tea and they never wanted to forget their memories. They just wanted a fresh star but they wanted it with the memories of their 1000+ years love. I won't post the screenshot because I did it earlier, but remember the scene where Lee Hyuk and Sunny was in the car. She was looking at him, smiling while he looked like he was trying hard not to. I think that they were on a silent agreement to just live their new lives, but together. 

Therefore I think Sunny was more than a conflict. She was a person who could even oppose the deity. She was there to give and receive love and just be herself. 

Also I think Sunny's choice of names is pretty interesting. While she thinks her given name Kim Sun reminds of her something sad and always emphasizes that her name is Sunny, it is still a variation of Sun. I think while she doesn't want that name, she doesn't want to leave it either, so while she has a new name, it also consists of Sun. It is like a mirror for her choice of leaving, and her character.

I don't agree that Sunny is a fully developed character.  Almost everything you write is about her function is making Wang Yeo better. 

Here is why I say, although delightful, to the over arching story Sunny is superfluous because Kim Sun was enough.

Working from the assumption that Wang Yeo's story is one of rebirth I would say that

Wang Yeo's "death" to be reborn was not his actual death but when his deeply held assumptions about the world change--his death was when he accepted that despite what he thought/felt he was deeply loved.  That destroyed his original self-concept.  When he accepted  truth he was free to accept love and to love.  That's a short version of his death and rebirth.

-1. If Wang Yeo's regret  ordering/allowing Kim Sun's death, assuming his love for her was so deep, he killed himself--he did not need a contemporary Sunny to suffer, he had done that while living.  Also Goblin message about Wang Yeo being loved in the past would be enough for his rebirth because his connection was so deep with Shin.

-2. Or let's say that Wang Yeo didn't kill himself out of regret, but out of self-pity, then contemporary is Sunny is still unnecessary.  Whatever lesson he learned from Sunny he could have learned from Shin.  The learning to love and accept love that was an important of Wang Yeo's journey he had already accomplished with Shin.  He went from a rule-bound bureacratic Grim Reaper to rule-breaking Grim Weeper to help the people he loved, Shin and EunTak.   This behavior was in stark difference from Goryeo Wang Yeo who did not love  and did not know he was loved.  Sunny could have been waiting for him on the other side/ or better yet Kim Sun and he would still have had his growth and his romantic ending.

So I would say what healed Wang Weeper was his relationship with Shin which started in ignorance and develop into deep abiding bonds .

-

Ah I love your words. It made me emotional.  I am glad I am not the only one who loves her.I would like to state again, this is not about loving or not loving Sunny or YIN--it's about character function and character richness. Thank you and yes I will be making lots of gifs, can't wait to share it with you. 

@selenette @Princi_86 @winterdew @bebebisous33 I would love to read your thoughts too. ^^

 

Ah @selenette I don't have complete scenes, do you mean all of their scenes? I will make though, but I can also make a specific gifset of a scene of your choice ^^ Let me know, and I can't wait to read itttt.

As best I can see Sunny has three functions

-1. To be a point of conflict between Shin and Wang

-2. To be a harbor for EunTak when the story needs EunTak to be independent of Shin

-3. To show how being reincarnated works in this world

 

 

@selenette @phikyl @packmule3

[[Drama 2016-2017] Guardian: The Lonely and Great Goblin 도깨비]

25 minutes ago, haqita02 said:

I can never put what you said here into better words. 

Thanks.

I haven't watched all of it as yet. 

And I've read a few post that actually argues well that EunTak's death make a point and extend the depth of the story.