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hushhh

SunTaek
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Posts posted by hushhh

  1. Hasn't watched yet, (Duh!) but read Dramamilk.

     

    From reading:

    On 5/10/2018 at 1:19 PM, hushhh said:

    I know everyone is worried if

    Ji-An will call no, but they connect anyway

    Will Ji-An and DongHoon meet yes

    Will one die not yet

    Will both survive so far

    Will the marriage continue so far

    Will they kiss and be merry  not so far

    Will they kiss and say goodbye not so far

     

     

    Me, I just want to know will DongHoon accept the Chairman's invitation to eat? In #15

    Where will they go? Dramamilk didn't say

    What will they eat? Dramamilk didn't say

    It's been 14 episodes and still no acceptance of that invite no matter how inviting the Chairman works to make it.

     

    EDIT: After some consideration, maybe DongHoon will make a counteroffer to the chairman and invite him to JH bar.  I'm sure the Chairman will have a great time there.

     

    If Dramamilk got it right,

    "How can a little girl like you .  .  .  how .  .  .  pity an adult like me. . . . To me, it hurts my heart so much so I can't live like this."

    It means the DH has drawn a line between him and JiAn; the writer has done what she said she would do, write a healing drama. 

     

    It seems like the healing will be a gentle rain falling on all.  Therefore YH will be encompassed in that gentle rain and I suppose so will GI, who will remember his better self and be motivated to behave that old impulse to do better.

     

    My Mister is clearly a story from JiAn's perspective.  Because of the wiretapping she comes as close to omniscience as anyone can be in the drama.  She has imprinted on DongHoon like a duckling on a duck after birth.

     

    Were I to name it the drama from DongHoon perspective I'd name it How to Save a Feral Child.  Makes me think a little of the stories of deep attachment that the rescued usually forms with the rescuer. 

    • Like 1
  2. 4 hours ago, sadiesmith said:

    I am sure Kim Young Min and Jang Ki Young did not get hurt at all.  It was all so obviously fake in the BTS.  Never  sure how seriously I need to take your comments.

     

    And if anyone needed to take a real hit, I sure hope everything was done with careful coaching and direction from experts in the field.

     

    If I am talking about real people (the actors), acting, the craft, emotional health, physical safety, I'm usually serious.

     

    If I'm talking about the story, the obsession with the story, the fandom, people insisting that a story they are watching end the way they want it to or there will be consequences, I might be serious or I might have my tongue firmly in my cheek. 

     

    the statement about concerns about the other actors safety was serious. I've enjoyed the fight scenes. They have been beautifully shot and I assumed well choreographed.  

     

     However  hearing an veteran actor talked about voluntarily being brutalized and being hurt for a movie, it make me wonder about the safety for actors  who works with him on set.

    • Like 3
  3. 32 minutes ago, sadiesmith said:

     

    A few notable lines from these Dramabeans articles that might shed light on his approach to acting (at least in action genre):

     

    1. http://www.dramabeans.com/2014/04/a-hard-day-selected-for-directors-fortnight/

    Lee Seon-kyun, in his first action role, threw his entire body into filming — the movie isn’t a well-coordinated illusion of stunts; rather, the actor was actually physically hit, bruised and broken. Of his character, Lee Seon-kyun said, “He is desperate to stay alive. He isn’t worried about coming across as cool and isn’t trying to be the new section chief. I wanted to portray realistic action scenes so I actually threw punches and got hit in character.

     

    2. http://www.dramabeans.com/2014/06/a-hard-day-racks-up-ticket-sales-lee-seon-kyun-reflects-on-its-success/

    Asked about filming action scenes for the first time, the actor said, “It was disgusting. I not only sustained a lot of minor injuries which caused my whole body to hurt, but when the cameras rolled, I found myself becoming Go Geon-soo instead of Lee Seon-kyun. It wasn’t until I heard the word ‘Cut!’ that I returned to my body and I’d find that I had terrible aches.

     

     

     

    In order of worthiness:

    A Hard Day (action), All About My Wife (sort of romantic comedy), Petty Romance (romantic comedy), Helpless (thriller), King's Case Note (sageuk comedy)

     

    This isn't good.

    It isn't good acting.

    It is self-abuse.

    It sends an awful lesson to young actors hearing a veteran respected actor say such awful stuff.

     

    If that is his process how can I watch him punch Kim . DJY and LGI in the face and not worry about Young-Min and Chang Ki-Yong safety.

     

     

     

    • Confused 2
  4. Thank you @chickfactor

    I don't speak Korean, but I have always hated Dramafever's subs.  Even unknowing me realize they have a habit of flattening the experience and remove the Korean"ness" to some degree. When I watched them they would always replace Noona with a proper name.

    Spoiler
    2 hours ago, chickfactor said:

    Just wanted to point out a few esoteric, probably irrelevant points:

     

    - When the chairman said he wanted to give Ji-An a "permanent" job (Dramafever), he actually didn't say that. After JY said that she can't work here anymore because of the rumors (about her killing someone), the chairman said that he will find her another job elsewhere, not a permanent job at their company.

     

    - This is about their names.

     

    When DH asked JA what her name meant, (Ep.5) Dramafever said that she replied her name meant "quick" and "comfort."

     

    She said "이를 지" (JI) which actually means "arrival" or "achieve," not "quick." So her name actually means "achieving comfort."

     

    When she asked Dong-Hoon what his name means, he says it's doesn't mean anything. He replied, "동녘 동" (DONG) which means "east." But Dramafever said that it means "power." So I think that was also wrong.

     

    Anyway, DONG (east) is a very common name. If you know any Korean people, you likely know something named DONG. (Also someone with surnames: Kim, Lee, or Park)

     

    He also said that HOON is a 돌림자, which is a name assigned by his clan. But Dramafever said it means "name." That's not true, because HOON probably does mean something, but DH considers it meaningless because it was assigned by his Park clan to his generation, not something they had a choice about.

     

    Like I said, esoteric points that probably mean nothing.

     

     

    One thing the drama reminds you of that that how lonely someone can be in the company of friends.  DongHoon has a battalion that will come to his rescue should thing go wrong (or if he does not pick up a few phone calls). The folks in the neighborhood and folk at work admire him and are in his corner, yet to the soul loneliness he endure was overwhelming (and all JH's fault--kidding, only kidding).

    Spoiler
    1 hour ago, akhenaten said:

    May I just say how much I loved that scene when the announcement of Dong Hoon's appointment as Director came out?  I love how his team was just so happy for him.  They were just hugging him and you could see how proud they were of their boss.  I think this moment made Dong Hoon realize how important it was for his team that he succeeds.  Being their boss, his success is their success too.  It's actually a big deal.  Which is why he can never just sit back and accept whatever BS Joon Young or anyone else in the company throws at him because it's so much more than himself now.    

     

    [I also loved how LSK played Dong Hoon in this scene as very shy about what was happening although very happy.  The way he smiled and touched his forehead, as if he almost wanted to cover his face but couldn't do so.  At the same time, that quick glance towards Ji An's empty desk and the minute look of disappointment in his eyes and the way his smile faltered slightly. Masterful acting!]  

     

    I wonder if Dong Hoon's fear of success stems from the fact that most of his childhood friends in the neighborhood continue to live mediocre lives.  Among them, even among his own family, he's actually the only one having achieved a measure of material and professional success.  And with his talent, he can actually achieve greater things.  But he seems to feel guilty about it.  So he tries to keep his head down.  Dong Hoon makes me think of that lamp in the Bible, which hides its light under  a bushel basket.  Dong Hoon knows he shines brightly, but he's afraid of his own radiance.

     

     

    • Like 7
  5. Well

    I am so looking forward to Thursday night.

     

    When one hopes the nature of Donghoon and JiAn's love will be clarified.

     

    LOL as if what the writer says about the story will stop the viewers rewriting the writer's work, despite copyright law.

     

    I'm very appreciative of the gift of the writer's imagination.

     

     

    I don't think this drama has been written as a healthy romance. The relationship is too asymmetrical as it is for it to be healthy.  The asymmetrical nature is not about the age. JiAn knows too much and hero worship Donghoon to be his equal at this point. 

     

     

    A time jump might equalize it, but I'm not sure. 

     

    I read the idea that this is a transcendent love.  This makes some sense to me. A transcendent love is the epitome of "romantic" love as understood in the age of chivalry. Romantic love was a meeting of the mind and soul but not sexual. That kind of connection wasn't expected in marriage in general, which was often seen as a political and economic transaction.

     

    Oh Thursday how I yearn for your answers.

     

     I'll even go along with the idea that DongHoon's extistential loneliness is the result of being separated from the Monk, who was his true soulmate

     

    I think DongHoon's connection is similar to his connection to the Monk.  I either see both relationships as romantic or neither a being romantic. 

     

    Thursday will tell.

     

     

    • Like 5
  6. Random thought.

     

    I got hit with a bad cold this morning and haven't been able to be awake and have coherent ideas most of the day.

     

    I watch episode 13, fully awake (I think) and episode 14 during fitful sleep.

     

    Ki-Hoon is just awful.  If the drama had ended at #13 he would have been the character I disliked the most, even more than DY.

     

    KH is that friend you never share your challenges with because they will make it about them and you will have to spend your time comforting them over how much pain YOUR illness is causing them.  You only tell them things when you have gotten over it. Even then they will berate you for hiding your pain from them, because it is always about them.

     

    KH refusal to respect people's boundary just make me want to reach into the screen and shake him.  His continued questioning of YH regarding the details of his brother marital life was one of the rudest things I've ever seen.  KH lack of respect fo DongHoon's boundaries was unbearable.  I was glad when DH hit him.  I wish he'd hit him more. 

     

    **side note: the fight choreography and the filming of it was well done, especially during the beatdown of DY in fourteen.

     

    SH was shown well.  His response and KH's response was tied to their temperament and experiences.He's been married, and I think unfaithful, He understand how hard marriage is Whether or not DH should forgive YH is up to him, but at least SH is making him aware that option is available while not pushing his view with the aggression of KH.

     

    Ae-Ryun was marvelous today.  The closest to happy I've seen her as she took her place in the social life.  Everyone must be surprised when DH admitted it was hard not to have access to his best friend and not to be able to talk about his loss because JH's loss took up so much space. 

     

    I still don't see romance, but I don't quite know exactly how to categorize the relationship between JiAn and DH.  I'll know by #16.  I do think that JiAn loves DH.  What exactly is her love I can't say.  It may be romantic or a duckling for a duck, who knows.  I definitely don't see romance from DH. But maybe he's showing it in a particularly Korean way that I don't understand.

     

    I don't usually have issues with age gaps in romance.  What I have issues with is if one person in the relationship isn't a fully formed adult or when there is an asymmetrical power dynamics. 

     

    #13 really showed the advantage and drawbacks of small town living, 1) everybody knows your name, keep track of your activity and worries when you are not where you should be, 2) no freaking privacy.

     

    I'm not sure what will happen to DongHoon marriage.  The celebration was a reminder that YH has never found her footing in the neighborhood community.  I think SoYoon has shown YH respect in way that has alienated YH from the community and YH has not has the skills or spirit to fight for a place. Perhaps DH doesn't know how to help YH integrate and isn't interested in having her do so

     

    I really don't know what happen in #14.  I think it strengthened my admiration for Chief Song.  I like him.

     

    From the previews I wondered if the healing is about Donghoon coming out into the light and sharing his pain until it doesn't matter if folk know the details of stuff that is embarrassing.   If that is the lesson he might be able to reconcile with YH.

     

     

     

    • Like 10
  7. Healing time means:

     

    All rifts are healed

     

    Scars remain as a reminder of lessons learned

     

    Forgiveness falls like a gentle rain

     

    What seems dead blooms anew

     

    Love grow from fertilizer 

     

    the circle of decency widens

     

    and prosper.

     

    And please, for the love of what is good and holy, or secular, (I don't care which) GET KH SOME HELP.

     

    A person who respond with that much rage over a second hand offense is not someone another human being should risk living with.

     

    It might  seem that the rage he unleashed on YR when he was considered filled with potential is not longer an issue because he has resolved his issue with her, but it isn't.  KH is dangerous.   It seems that failure is the only way for him to live in the world without causing damage.  Were he to have true power with nothing to keep him in check he would be an unrestrained force for destruction.  His rage isn't cute or acceptable. 

     

    • Like 9
  8. I know everyone is worried if

    Ji-An will call

    Will Ji-An and DongHoon meet

    Will one die

    Will both survive

    Will the marriage continue

    Will they kiss and be merry

    Will they kiss and say goodbye

     

     

    Me, I just want to know will DongHoon accept the Chairman's invitation to eat?

    Where will they go?

    What will they eat?

    It's been 14 episodes and still no acceptance of that invite no matter how inviting the Chairman works to make it.

     

    EDIT: After some consideration, maybe DongHoon will make a counteroffer to the chairman and invite him to JH bar.  I'm sure the Chairman will have a great time there.

    • Like 3
    • LOL 16
  9.  

    I started this last Saturday after returning from a workshop.  Decided not to post, but have now reconsidered.

     

    For the record

    I hate it when I hear actors go on about their significant others not liking the fact that doing love scenes are a part of the job.  If their partners have issues with that aspect of their work, the partners should keep it to themselves, not be involved with actors, or make an agreement that the actor they are involved with should never play romantic leads. But harassing someone about the work they do, when you were aware of that fact, is abusive.

     

    Then there are actors like a particular South Korean who I hope never ever take another romantic lead because she can’t or won’t do the tamest of love scenes in a convincing manner.  After two series whenever I see her named as a lead in a romance I automatically skip it.

     

    Also I’m not anti romance or “skinship” or kisses, nor bed scenes. I thoroughly enjoy them when they have been earned by the narrative and propel the story forward.  I have an issue when they are gratuitous and seem more like fan service than necessary to tell the story.

     

    What many viewers don’t really get is that acting is hard. Even if you are talented, for most, it takes a great deal of training and practice to do good work consistently.

     

    To be a good actor takes a lot of emotional commitment for most.  [Nothing works exactly the same for all people]

     

    Emotions are physical things; they manifest in the muscles.  They are chemical; they show up in your hormone.

     

    Your brain cannot easily differentiate between the real world and fantasy. This is something you have to be trained to do.  Watching children play and people with dementia respond to videos be bears this out.

     

    Even when your intellect can differentiate between what is real and what is imagined, the other system that manifest emotion can’t tell the difference.  The physical response to kissing someone whether it is the partner in “real” life or “reel” life can be the same. Consequently, if a performer isn’t vigilant, doing love scenes or violent scenes can be emotionally exhausting or dangerous. Worse they can leave emotional residue.  Unfortunately the profession has not created a consistent practice/ritual to clean characters off an actor’s psyche.  And just a bad there are actors who believe carrying that emotional residue is  “proof” of they commitment to a role.

     

    I spent half of Saturday in a theatrical intimacy workshop with directors, actors, and teachers discussing how do you stage intimacy in a way that serves the story without damaging the actors or putting them into dangerous circumstances.

     

    A rehearsal room or a soundstage is a weird working space and has a lot of dangerous traps that few people know how to navigate.

     

     

    I saw a SK drama BTS feature where an actor explained how he had gotten hurt working out the fight scene with his fellow actor WITHOUT THE PRESENCE OF A FIGHT COORDINATOR. That is messed up and one would think that actors at that level of the profession would have people protecting them, but they didn’t.

     

    How many SK productions have been halted by awful life changing accidents from stunts gone wrong. 

     

    Even in the US even actors with clout can run in trouble on set and can get hurt when folks push for the "story" without thinking of their safety. 

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/02/uma-thurman-crash-footage-kill-bill-instagram

     

    The thing is most people can understand how dangerous a fight scene can be but few understand how doing physical intimate love scene can be.  Only recently is the industry beginning to admit that throwing people that situation can be problematic, even the tamest of scenes.

     

    There is an issue of people’s body being used to tell a story and the uses of that body having emotional consequences for the person the body belong to.

     

    The questions at workshop were from men asking legal and logistic question and from women asking how to protect themselves physically and emotionally,   “is this okay?” “what can I do if they ask . . .” “They ask me to do this late in the process I wasn’t comfortable but I didn’t want to come off as a problem so . . .”

     

    Every time I hear the forum clamoring for superfluous skinship I wonder if they know that the mouth belongs to a person that’s living within that character’s skin that might well be taking home the emotional residue.

     

    If SK’s sets aren’t safe for action and violence, I doubt they are emotionally safe to staging intimacy.

     

    Equally problematic are people suggesting that the actors who are doing a job, in a workplace should hook up romantically.  I never hear people regularly clamoring the calculus teacher and school nurse should hook up just because they work in the same place.

     

     

    • Like 10
  10. 2 hours ago, berny said:

     

    Yeah so those who give so much over-analysis on hugging...

     

    Can go and hug a pair of slippers instead. 

     

     

     

    I know thinking can often seems like too much work sometimes, but it does have it uses.

     

    I don't know how slippers feel about being hugged so wouldn't hug them. 

     

    I only hug when it is welcome.  I know when it's welcome because I ask.

     

    I hug a lot and I'm hugged frequently, AND I teach physical proximity and contact so I know the different types and how they are used. 

     

    The three things I am most appreciated for out of the classroom in my workplace is random pep talks, hugging in the hallways, and laughing in the theatre.

     

    Regardless of how in need of a hug someone looks, it should never done without seeking permission,  (thank goodness JiAn asked instead of jumping him as she did for the kiss) because we [our department] care about ours and our students and colleagues physical autonomy and emotional safety.

     

    Inviting in the department's physical intimacy choreographer into the classroom at the beginning of the semester is standard practice for preparing students for any physicality (violent or romantic) they might be doing in partner work.. 

     

    Doing the new student sexual assault education presentation campus at the beginning of school with the Title IX enforcement officer is a part of my responsibility, so yes I analyze hugs.  It is a part of my job.

     

    Not all creepy strangers look creepy.

    Not all creepy strangers are men.

     

    Additionally: http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/dont-force-your-children-to-hug-or-kiss-their-relatives-this-christmas-7092829/

    • Like 7
    • Thanks 2
  11.  

     

    2 hours ago, berny said:

    That is why when someone ask you for a hug ....just hug them ! ok ?

    Cause you'll never know if you'll ever get the chance to be asked by that person again.

     

     

    Here is my bad habit of inserting reality into a joking advice.

     

    For me this is not a rule I would subscribe to or propagate.

    There are some people whose way of hugging makes you feel dirty.  

    There are folks so disengaged from hugging that they leaving feeling worse.

    Some who uses proximity of hugging to exert dominance.

    Others who used the proximity to get some creepy satisfaction.

     

    Hug only when you want to.

     

    I say this as someone who believes in the therapeutic value of hugging.  

    • Like 7
  12.  

     

    14 minutes ago, arctichare said:

    Yes, definitely people's life experiences will shape the way they view the world, I think I was trying to find a short hand way to say that.

     

    As for your second point, I honestly can't tell if you're referring to my post. I don't think I denigrated anyone. I pretty much agree that different people will react differently to this show. That seems to be the only guarantee with this show. That's the beauty and fun of it.

     

    I honestly can't tell if I was referring to your post or not.:D:rolleyes::D

     

    I don't really pay attention to who post what, unless I'm going to post the comment, and even then I don't pay attention.

     

    [Denigrators rarely check themselves, so I doubt it is you.]

     

    I'm not accusing anyone specific, just the posts calling folks who disagree with perspectives delusional. It is just the folks who insist if you don't see romance you are crazy.  It has to be romance [be being mean here] because there is not other important relationships grown human being can have.

     

    All I'm saying, yes some folks must have romance or their drama isn't work consuming. See what you need to see.  But let the folks who see mentorship and marital reconciliation dream on until the dream is realize or all hope is dashed.

     

    But then you can just call me crazy!  Wheeeeeeeeegiphy.gif

     

    • Like 8
    • LOL 2
  13.  

    5 hours ago, arctichare said:

     

    I think the show knows its mind. I think the ambiguity of their central relationship is the point of the show.

    It's just that this is not what you're expecting or want from the show. 

     

    Yes, exactly. Their interactions can be explained away. Different people will look at their relationship through different lenses. I think this is very much intentional by the writer/director. Remember when Kwang-il couldn't describe what their relationship was like - were they dating? was she his mistress?

    I don't find this relationship unrealistic at all, in fact quite the opposite. I think in life, we come across and become close to different people for a number reasons. Yes sometimes those relationships can be easily categorized into neat little boxes but a lot of the times, that is simply not possible.

    I believe this show is about the latter. Obviously not everyone enjoys this kind of ambiguity and that's absolutely fine but a piece of art being ambiguous does not negate its value. Isn't that what art is? It's subjective. So many folks on this forum are convinced of the romantic nature of their relationship but if you check out Dramabeans or other forums, you'll find people who only see them as platonic partners and are baffled at the thought of romance. People will see what they want to see. 
     

     

    I also think that people will see what their education, exposure, and life experience have led them to expect. 

     

    It is frustrating when people start denigrating folks for not experiencing what their lives have prepared them to respond to.

     

    I'm all for disagreements; disagreements create opportunities for learning. But not for the denigration of people you don't agree with.  The posture spoils the drama, and if not that is spoils the forum.

     

    @Noor1

    I hear you but realistically, we can all say we know for sure where we stand with people in our life!

     

    I don't think that is true.  So many people have come home to empty houses to find their seemingly happy spouse has left them. So many parents have been surprised to find their children have run away with goodness knows who they met on the internet. One hopes to know one's near and dear but there is no guarantee that you do.

    • Like 12
  14. My favorite part of being in a forum are the mental health providers who are here to diagnose folk that don't see the world as they do as crazy.

     

    My second favorite are the story consultants who threaten the writer for not writing the story they want to watch.

     

    #funtimesinforumland

     

    I do hope JiAn finishes her contract before she messes up her work history.

     

    Has anyone considered paying for KH much needed therapy.  The entertainment industry is truly lucky he was not successful.  The amount of misery he would create on a film set is astronomical.

    • Like 12
    • Thanks 1
  15.  

    Spoiler
    19 hours ago, arctichare said:

    English sub of the clip.

    You can hear Ki-Beom at the start of the clip too.

     

     

    A native speaker would know more, but from the translation I don't think what Ki-Hoon said indicates they know she is listening.  

     

    I think it suggest the opposite.  It sounds as if Ki-Hoon is chiding Dong-Hoon for thanking whoever is on the phone in a way that the person cannot hear.

    • Like 5
  16. I wrote this before, but I continue to be enthrall with Lee Sun-Kyun physical grace.  HIs movement is beguiling and cast a spell on me every time I see him move.  

     

     

    I could watch a movie with Lee Sun-Kyun and Bradley Whitford where all they do is walk.

     

    Okay, it would be nice if they ran now and then, LSK could manage a soccer ball and Whitford could dance.

    • Like 4
    • LOL 6
  17. 6 minutes ago, sadiesmith said:

     

    But maybe he is precisely the person to bring about changes in the top echelon. He can be the director that actually cares for the well-being of the workers, the one who does not cut corners and values real safety, the one who finally will stop the widespread "bad behavior" in the workplace.  And he can even be a hands-on director if he wants to.  But I agree with you, if he takes the position and everything else stays the same, he will die an even earlier death.

    You may be right, but research suggest that outcome isn't guaranteed.

     

    http://bpr.org/post/social-science-researchers-examine-peter-principle

     

    • Like 6
  18. I think that Donghoon will become a director, and it is necessary eventuality for him to be a threat and challenge to DY.

     

    However I think it is a bad outcome for Donghoon and will make his life a work more miserable.

     

    Consider Yoo-Ra continued lament about the constant drive to be the best at whatever you do and how miserable it makes everyone.

     

    In fact the ajusshis who Donghoon runs with are the collateral damage of that kind of hyper competitive culture.

     

    We have seen Donghoon at work with his team. [He is like the Catcher in the Rye keeping his team from doing off the edge.] He loves his work, the hands on nature of it, the importance of it. That the outcome of his work is tangible; if he does his work well buildings stay standing and people live safely.  

     

    Go over the scenes of him working and how hands on he is. Look at his pleasure at being with his team.

     

    Now consider the directors you have seen.  What work have you seen them do, outside of interview prep?  Their jobs seem to be all politics and maneuvering to get to the top or get their man to the top.  That world is not of any interest to Donghoon or Donghoon's spirit.

     

    Think back on Donghoon's comment on the building that was constructed in the wrong place and how deeply he identifies with that building. He lives in a world where everyone insist you keep climbing or be dismissed as a failure when he has long found the spot where he wants to hang out.

     

    A metaphor for Donghoon's position can be seen in education.  The some of best teacher in a school might make excellent principals, but many will not. The skill set needed for those positions is very different.

     

    When Donghoon get promoted I will think congratulations and condolences.

    • Like 12
  19. 3 hours ago, joowonie said:

    Beyonce is is very talented but I never understood why she chose to stay with Jay other than protecting their brand bc expecting a serial cheater to change is like saying a zebra can change its stripes lol If a person has any ounce of self respect, they will not stay in a relationship with a spouse who repeatedly cheats on them. It’s bc even if you can forgive a person, you can never forget, it’s always going to be in the back of your mind. Therefore, given the writers realistic approach, he will not be advocating for this type of emotional abuse!

     

    Beyonce:  Well Beyonce has access to therapists, marriage counselors,  financial advisers, image counselors, back-up dancers,  a warrior sister, and marching bands is she so choose, at her disposal.  I assume that the choice she made is an informed one.

     

    I am not omniscient enough to know exactly what went into her decision to keep her family intact.  But lacking any significant information, and seeing that her life isn't a scripted drama, I can only discuss the outcome--she stayed. 

     

    I don't about forgiving but not forgetting, I'm just not omniscient enough to know about the inner working of the mind of the entire human population and what every human being is capable of.  

     

    I also don't assume that my  personal limitation is the extent of humans capability.

     

    What I do believe is that when folks insist that the world and human being stick to the only options they themselves see possible and acceptable misery multiplies.

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  20. A random observation about the conversation regarding the consequences to JiAn for wiretapping DongHoon.

     

    Yeah, it illegal, but that not my problem with it.

    My problem with the wiretapping is that it is emotionally invasive.

     

    Therefore for JiAn and DongHoon to have a relationship going forward not based on lies (even lies of omission) Donghoon must learn of the wiretapping.  If he does not whatever relationship he has with JiAn (familial or romantic) will be based on a rotting foundation of lies. AGAIN a woman he trusted would have rendered him worthless with her deception.

     

    As an introvert I know I am hyperviligiant about privacy.  But really wiretapping to jumpstart an intimate relationship falls into creepy stalker territory. Consider how you would feel it it happened to you and the eavesdropper wasn't as attractive.

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  21.  

    One thing I will say about the writer of Another Oh Hae Young and this drama is that the writer is intrigued by sound. My favorite part of AOHY was watching the sound engineer do his work.

     

    The writer also seems fascinated about the intimacy created when you overhear or tape someone who is not aware that you are taping them.  That was and element in AOHY, but to a muuuuuuch lesser extent.

     

    The director of this and  Misaeng creates realistic office machinations, cut throat office politics and showing the fierce loyalty  a good manager with integrity can engender in his subordinates.

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  22. Lest we forget, as I often do, not only did JiAn wiretap Donghoon but she gave DY access to DongHoon PRIVATE INTERACTIONS on command. She never once checked what Donghoon was doing before she turned it over.  THat is basically leaving him naked before his enemy.

     

    The only way that is remotely forgiveable is if we see before she met with DY she would cue the recording up to a relatively innocuous spot in the recording.

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  23.  

     

    3 hours ago, dvdwyn said:

    i dont understand why DH brother saving up money under the carpet bed to buy an iphoneX, he can just get installment or small downpayment with contract in korea.. 

     

    :crazy:

    Is that what he's saving for.  Silly me, I thought he was trying to pay off his debts or give his wife a lump sum to impress her.:confused:

     

     

    2 hours ago, joowonie said:

    Actually, using Beyonce and jay as an example isn’t the best choice bc they are a“brand”, one can argue that it would hurt their collective networth if they are no longer seen as a “power couple”. His wife isn’t amartyr like some of us make her out to be.

    I hadn't heard Beyonce called a martyr, People say weird things but I don't always read them.

     

    Beyonce and Jay-Z are the best choice for the point I was making because of the public revelation of cheating and the wife's decision to move on. 

     

    I could have posted this instead about women being counseled to forgive , http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/domestic-violence-church-submit-to-husbands/8652028 but the pictures aren't as interesting.

     

    I could have posted this or any of the multitudes of stories about men's choosing revenge http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/harford/aegis/ph-ag-murder-trial-opening-1027-20171026-story.html but Bey and Jay were just easier.

     

    Yes, Dh was partially to blame for her loneliness but that is not an excuse to cheat nor should it be forgiven bc she plotted with the person he hated the most to destroy him.

    There’s nothing loving and mature about having an affair for more than a year [Not quite a year, but that is nit picking.  I haven't heard anyone suggest that having an affair was either loving or mature.] when you could have done the right thing for your family, divorce before commuting adultery. If you’re not happy talk like normal adults instead of harboring hatred to the point of destroying your family by cheating & plotting with your ex. [Talking isn't communicating.  Communicating require both people interested in sharing and finding a solution. YH said when she brought up the subject of moving DH got quiet.  He didn't counter offer or engage.  He didn't communicate, (perhaps because the way things were was not an issue for him) so YH stop talking with him about it.  I get that.  I don't in general talk to things that are inanimate looking for answers]  I’m not saying a couple cannot recover from adultery but it does depend on the duration and other factors like “not plotting with the person your husband considers to be the scum of the earth” to get him fired! [I don't know how, why relationships survive or fall apart.  There are stories of folks forgiving spouses that tried to kill them and reuniting after they served their jail time.  There are stories of people who reunite with people who threw acid on them.  I don't understand people and their choices, many of which I consider pathologically unhealthy. I also can't always predict how a writer will steer the story, so .  .  .  

     

     

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