[Drama 2021] The Red Sleeve Cuff, 옷소매 붉은 끝동

[realistic2280a]

1 hour ago, pad-hari said:

I think it's becoz his daughter also suffered in the hands of Sado and she is not approving San as the king.  So, in order to clear any misunderstandings he made his daughter hand over the official   stamp of the king and accept San as the king before the whole court officials so that there is no problem in the future. 

 

Really love this move from King Yeongjo as he cleared everything for San's smooth transition of the throne. 

 

Ah... Thanks for the answer... 

 

Overall, its a sad history of San and Deok Im... together, they did not have any descendents after they passed away and it seemed that San was loyal and did not have any children except with his other concubine when Deok im passed away.. sigh

 

Perhaps his father's history has taught him to be extremely catious... but being a crown prince and still has no sons then must be an issue for him when he was alive... he has a queen but didnt bear him any children before Deok Im.. hmm

[jojoanna]

3 hours ago, pad-hari said:

I think it's becoz his daughter also suffered in the hands of Sado and she is not approving San as the king.  So, in order to clear any misunderstandings he made his daughter hand over the official   stamp of the king and accept San as the king before the whole court officials so that there is no problem in the future. 

 

Really love this move from King Yeongjo as he cleared everything for San's smooth transition of the throne. 

When King Yeongjo asked his daughter Princess Hwawan to hand over the Royal Stamp of the King to San...I was thinking it was more for Princess Hwawan to give up the idea of wanting her adopted son Jung Baek-Ik to be the successor to the throne. Princess Hwawan was against her father King Yeonjo giving regency to Crown Prince San. In many ways she was using her father favoritism of her to do things against Crown Prince San.

Secondly probably King Yeongjo also knows her daughter Princess Hwawan was one of the culprits in bringing down late Crown Prince Sado. King Yeongjo knows what her daughter has done and that her action cannot be forgiven but he even as a King cannot punish Princess Hwawan as he knows he was the reason for Princess Hwawan to act high and mighty and thinking she can do anything to anyone and no need respect anyone because she has her father the King behind her.

So the move and decision of King Yeongjo was a beautiful and most amazing act i.e. asking his favorite daughter Princess Hwawan to hand over the King's Royal Seal to San in the presence of the Queen and also all the ministers. It was like the King's Final Act to tell everyone "Here...that's my final decision and nobody can change that...so back off!!!"

Once this series ends...I am so going to re watch "Lee San, Wind of the Palace / Yi San / 이산" 

[baconham]

How does everyone else feel about San asking Duk Im to be his consort instead of the Queen?

I know they are trying to follow history but hearing him say it for real in the latest episode kinda spoiled the "romantic-ness" of the relationship they both build from the first episode to the latest episode. Also, after hearing Duk-Im say it herself in one of the episodes that she rejected San because she didn't like that she had to share San with other women who will eventually become San's other concubines / Queen.

Hearing San say it straight to her felt like a slap in the face because it implied that she is only worthy of being his consort (the last part where he added that he wanted to start a family didn't make it sound any better in my opinion lol. The fact that he only asked her to be his concubine kinda killed the romantic vibes for me).

The writers are probably trying to follow history but I just secretly wished that they would tweak it a little since you know they did make it seem like San only had eyes for Duk Im - the build up from Episode 1 showed how madly in love he is with her and how he couldn't forget her since young. Is it just me? lol

At the beginning of this drama all the heart-fluttering romance actually reminded me a little of "the moon embracing the sun" where the leads also met as kids and the crown prince was madly in love with the female lead throughout the drama. I could feel that they were really destined for each other in that one because she was eventually made his Queen.

Edited December 19, 2021 by baconham

[andy78]

4 minutes ago, baconham said:

she rejected San because she didn't like that she had to share San with other women who will eventually become San's other concubines / Queen.

i think he has a legal wife...she is the only one he chose...still romantic to me

[rocher22]

I was surprised when San said that three years have passed..

 

The King calmly asked Deokim to become his concubine.  

It was simple and honest.  

I liked the  part ''I want a family with you'' the most.  

 

 

 

 

[mskololia1]

8 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

Just finish the episode... 

 

Im not sure if we can credit DeokIm for saving San, infront of the grandfather with the revelation of the will... or San saved himself by finally strongly telling the king that he was not his dead son but his grandson; and the will finally made his 'abdicate' his responsibilty to San...

I think she does get some in that the poem read and written by the king was heard in court along with his admitting to San-a et al his oath (forgotten) to his dead son.

 

@baconham, I do not have an issue with DI becoming San's concubine because it was spoken to her when she gave him a meal when becoming a court lady.  His mother insisted.  Also, he probably has a queen and SKs don't like playing with their history for romance, etc. 

[happiness]

8 hours ago, realistic2280a said:

Deok Im didnt get any special favours during all those time... hmm

It was as the King Jeongjo said, there was a period of mourning for King Yeongjo for those years and following protocols for the mourning, celebrations were probably kept simple or avoided and things such as taking on a new concubine were probably not seen as good considering he was supposed to be bereaving for his family that passed.

4 hours ago, baconham said:

How does everyone else feel about San asking Duk Im to be his consort instead of the Queen?

I know they are trying to follow history but hearing him say it for real in the latest episode kinda spoiled the "romantic-ness" of the relationship they both build from the first episode to the latest episode

Mm, that didn't seem surprising. Crown Princes tended to be married once they become of age, and if you think back to the conversation San had with his mother on Deok-im's coming of age ceremony, he said he would never fall for a court lady because they didn't have a high enough standing in society. If we look at the context of King Yeongjo's insecurity for having a mother who was of low birth and how many officials opposed his ruling because of his mother's status, I don't think there was any way that there would have been an approval of making a court lady and not someone of noble birth San's wife. It's certainly not as romantic given this, but from the context of society back then, it would have been really unrealistic to have San take Deok-im as his legal wife.

 

Anyway, I do wonder if this writer's intention is to portray their love story as only romantic? A lot of Deok-im's story focuses on her grappling with her feelings for San while also trying very hard to fight for her own values and beliefs (wanting freedom, a simple life, doing what she wants to do, and treasuring herself more than she treasures San, etc.) that there's this sort of looming sadness in their romance that is hard to shake off. In a typical romance, the King loving only one person is romantic, but the circumstances don't seem ideal for Deok-im so it's also hard to see this in a non-tragic light. "If I can't have it properly, I'd rather not have it at all..." really hits hard.

[celflor]

I think we must take in consideration that MBC catalogue this as fact sageuk, so they will follow the real history and taking just few spins to make the story richer or more appealing for the viewer.

 I kind of really immerse on this love story because Yi San is

 my all time favourite historical drama and because of this I started to investigate more about real Jeongjo and Deok Im, the fact that Jeongjo just became father first with Deok Im as his concubine talks a lot to how he cherished and loved her. Reading about kings and queens in Joseon era I discovered that usually (not always) when a King didn't have issue with the Queen or concubines means that they never consumated the marriage (note: concubines are also King wives, they're his legal wives too), so seeing that they both became parents at such old age for that time and the fact that he spend almost every night in Deok Im quarters (fact in RL) make me think that even if she didn't became his "official" wife he treat her as his only women.

Also history says that Queen Hyoui (San's offcial wife) adored Deok Im, because she was such a kind and well mannered lady. Someone says that the queen is the only women the king choose and this is wrong, actually concubines of low rank are the only  ones choosen by the King, Queen and concubines of high rank are usually noble families dauthers and they're selected through a extensive test, with Queen Dowager as the examinator as she's the oldest in the royal family (note: the questions the Queen ask Deok Im in the first episodes when she asked her to save San the first time are actually questions that was made to her in her exam before became a Queen) so Kings had minimal to none voice choosing their queens or some concubines.

Some are sad that San only want Deok Im to become his concubine but going back in history is the only way they can be together, his great grandfather King Sukjong established a law where concubines can't ascend to Queen because he had lot of cat fights and problems with his court when he made one of his concubines (the infamous Jang Hui Bin) queen, so I guess this law can't be demolished and the only thing that he can offer her is be his concubine. Back to the drama I can understand Deok Im, who feeling true love will want to share his loved one with others, she's not into power, position or money, she just want to have a family and good simple life with the man she loves...

Edited December 20, 2021 by celflor

[realistic2280a]

I need to rush somehwere and will reply to few who tag me later ya....

 

But i feel i want to comment on the question of how do we feel that San wants to take Deok Im as concubine instead of queen...

 

1. Historically, yi san already has a wife, though not shown in the red sleeve cuff ; they were married when they were kids! The drama did say it was depicting historical figures, hence cant move much on that...

 

2. Those who have followed korean dramas and history for so long, we all understood that that Korean  culture is strictly Confucious hence men have higher status than women... and in the Palace, strict protocols are followed and in the case of DeokIm being of lower class,  she can only climb up the status ladder, becoming a concubine and when she bears a son, then she can go up as a Consort, depending on how powerful is the King and his desire to grant her the title...  

 

Even in European royalties, it was only in recent times that commoners can get married with royal crown/ princes and are not frown upon... Looking at Japan recently, the Princess has to leave the Palace to follow her commoner husband..

 

Tradition is indeed steep and stiff... so its not surprising for us to accept Deok Im's fate as a concubine, as that was the norm or expectations of social structure back then...

 

 

 

P/s. Im following on the #wang lee hom scandal/divorce updates... the man is trying so hard to save his image for fear of being cancelled in China, where he made his money from... the ex-wife is on a vengence mode

[phuong1317]

 

[realistic2280a]

14 hours ago, mskololia1 said:

I think she does get some in that the poem read and written by the king was heard in court along with his admitting to San-a et al his oath (forgotten) to his dead son.

 

 

Hmm.. did he.. when was this?.. im confused, what did he say? I need to see the episode back again..

 

14 hours ago, happiness said:

It was as the King Jeongjo said, there was a period of mourning for King Yeongjo for those years and following protocols for the mourning, celebrations were probably kept simple or avoided and things such as taking on a new concubine were probably not seen as good considering he was supposed to be bereaving for his family that passed.

 

Mm, that didn't seem surprising. Crown Princes tended to be married once they become of age, and if you think back to the conversation San had with his mother on Deok-im's coming of age ceremony, he said he would never fall for a court lady because they didn't have a high enough standing in society. 

 

Perhaps.. taking a concubine i would think wouldnt be considerd a celebration; rather a need/national importance for Yisan since he is still childless and since he became king, he needs to get that son ASAP...

 

But yes, thanks for reminding Yisan arrogant's words of not wanting to get married with non-noble women.. he is eating his words in this drama.. i do wonder if Deok im will ever remind him that...

[pad-hari]

Awww, from novel - 

It's so beautiful to read these excerpts from the novel.  

 

 

 

“i can’t forget anything about you. i can’t erase it no matter how hard i try. but you forget me too easily. you try to live your great life of yours without me. you erase my existance effortlessly.”

cr:@yuruuu0911

[pad-hari]

Can somebody who is well versed in korean history tell me what is the significance of the red sleeve cuff in the court lady's hanbok?  thanks 

[celflor]

26 minutes ago, pad-hari said:

Can somebody who is well versed in korean history tell me what is the significance of the red sleeve cuff in the court lady's hanbok?  thanks 

Court ladies that receive the King grace, change their cuff to red to symbolize she was chosen by the King. Now everyone had dark pink cuff but I think soon we'll see a change in Deok Im cuff when she accept the King proposal.

The higher the rank of the concubine the more elaborate the clothes she'll wear

[happiness]

 

Seyoung updated her instagram account. She celebrated her birthday on the set.

[celflor]

13 hours ago, happiness said:

 

Seyoung updated her instagram account. She celebrated her birthday on the set.

Seems like she's wearing all white hanbok and two ideas came into my mind that means sad ending? ㅠㅠㅠ but then I notice she looks too healthy (like with make up and everything) and her hair looks like is down too not in a bun soooo that means bed scene? 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by gm4queen
Please don't quote tweets! Thanks!

[simplesim]

12 hours ago, celflor said:

Seems like she's wearing all white hanbok and two ideas came into my mind that means sad ending? ㅠㅠㅠ but then I notice she looks too healthy (like with make up and everything) and her hair looks like is down too not in a bun soooo that means bed scene? 

 

Haha... methinks you are wishful thinking?

 

I also don't want (can't accept) sad ending but guess must be prepared for it. Especially I don't want to cry like crazy on the 1st (2nd) day of the New Year. Think its just too bad that the scheduled finale has to be on 1st Jan 2022.

[phuong1317]

17 hours ago, celflor said:

Seems like she's wearing all white hanbok and two ideas came into my mind that means sad ending? ㅠㅠㅠ but then I notice she looks too healthy (like with make up and everything) and her hair looks like is down too not in a bun soooo that means bed scene? 

im prepared for a sad ending I really dont think they are going to change history but you never know personally ill be a little disappointed if they ended it happy since I watched the old drama yi san and her death made such a big impact on him and how he ruled his kingdom 

[happiness]

New stills for the upcoming episode. 

 

Translation of Seyong's Allure interview! The tweet above has translations more focused on the drama-related questions. The tweet below has translations focused on her thoughts as an actress. Really admirable. She works really hard to self-improve.

 

[celflor]

14 hours ago, simplesim said:

Haha... methinks you are wishful thinking?

 

I also don't want (can't accept) sad ending but guess must be prepared for it. Especially I don't want to cry like crazy on the 1st (2nd) day of the New Year. Think its just too bad that the scheduled finale has to be on 1st Jan 2022.

 

Maybe I'm being optimistic haha but the PD team already says that they'll take another route for the final episode despite history is the biggest spoiler here, so I'm preparing for that everything can happen I think 

9 hours ago, phuong1317 said:

im prepared for a sad ending I really dont think they are going to change history but you never know personally ill be a little disappointed if they ended it happy since I watched the old drama yi san and her death made such a big impact on him and how he ruled his kingdom 

I was thinking the same but this drama is very different from "Yi San" at least from my point of view, more concentrated on the couple story than just in him as it was in "Yi San" plus the PD team say that they'll take another route in the drama last episode and maybe not follow the final in the novel so I'm preparing myself that everything can happen here hehe maybe they'll finish in their happy years as we already know how this will finish anyways  (history and novel are big spoilers)