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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

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5 hours ago, troptina said:

 I'm still pretty confused about the history of the Da Cheng "remnants." I had assumed a remnant referred to the children of Gu Heng.  Did Gu Heng have multiple consorts, and was  Mama Qiu one of them?  Since she gave birth to twins, shouldn't the twin kids be real remnants too?  If Mama Qiu isn't FZWs birth mother, who is then?  And presumably the Fourth Prince was also a child of Gu Heng from another consort?  And is Yueling also a child of Gu Heng too, or a more distant relative?  The Da Cheng story line was so disorganized compared to the beginning of the series.

 

I find it hard to believe that, with all the Da Cheng subjects around, that Yueling (assuming she was a princess) had no protection from people like ZC and had to be sold to a brothel.  Even ZC seemed to have made a decent humble living being a teacher.

I think you're confused about the semantics. "Remnant" here refers to the remaining members of the previous empire's royal family not its supporters. So only Emperor Ai's children who were princes and princesses of the Dacheng empire are referred to as remnants in this context because only they can restore the old empire as per their lineage.

And they are 'remnants' in the first place because the current emperor, Ning Shizeng (Emperor of Tiansheng) and his army killed all members of the Dacheng royal family during his rebellion/take over. Atleast they thought they did except there were two they missed. First is Feng Zhiwei and second is the 4th prince Zhangsun Hong that was revealed in the end.

Zhangsun Hong is more eligible to restore the previous empire since he's male and older. Wait does birth order matter if you're just a consort's kid @skibbies ?

 

6 hours ago, skibbies said:

Her identity is the same in the novel too since it's one of the core elements that cause conflicts. It's clearer in the novel

  Reveal hidden contents

because of the way Mama Qiu raised her. Mum was a former general and got her to learn martial arts, go to school to learn presumbly what all nobility would learn and more. Feng Hao on the other hand was just a spoilt brat that tend to cause problems wherever he goes. Mum felt guilty for making her son eventually having to be sacrificed, so she let him do whatever he wants. This is implied in the drama too but there's less details about how she grew up, and she seem to have grown up in better environment than in the novel. They were pretty broke there, and bullied by her relatives.

Okay I guess the Real Real remnant is actually Zhangsun Hong, the bald guy, but I always like to pretend he doesn't exist. He's a drama original character that's used to tied up loose ends, really badly. Also probably to make it more realistic, because they can't restore their kingdom with a princess.

Woah this makes so much sense. No wonder Feng Hao was allowed to do anything and act like a kid even when he should've manned up. I kindof assumed he had low IQ so they went easy on him. The fact that she was guilty for setting up feng hao to be sacrificed (hence spoiled him) could've been more emphasized in the drama. I too was a bit confused after watching the show and only after reading on here understood that Feng Hao was supposed to be a decoy for Zhiwei to protect her incase anything happens while Zhiwei herself was a buffer for Zhangsun Hong.

Can't believe they created a new character for the drama that did no good for the story. They diluted the essence of the story by bringing him in. Sigh...

Also is this actor in the production crew? He's in all the BTS instructing and directing other actors. Was he a last minute hire?

 

 

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16 minutes ago, niniandkun said:

Also is this actor in the production crew? He's in all the BTS instructing and directing other actors. Was he a last minute hire?

He is the co-director if I'm not mistaken. I saw him going over scenes with Chen Kun and Ni Ni in the bts. Also, they used multi-cams and he was monitoring them with the crew. But I honestly wish his character was not created. 

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1 hour ago, niniandkun said:

Zhangsun Hong is more eligible to restore the previous empire since he's male and older. Wait does birth order matter if you're just a consort's kid @skibbies ?

 

Woah this makes so much sense. No wonder Feng Hao was allowed to do anything and act like a kid even when he should've manned up. I kindof assumed he had low IQ so they went easy on him. The fact that she was guilty for setting up feng hao to be sacrificed (hence spoiled him) could've been more emphasized in the drama. I too was a bit confused after watching the show and only after reading on here understood that Feng Hao was supposed to be a decoy for Zhiwei to protect her incase anything happens while Zhiwei herself was a buffer for Zhangsun Hong.

Can't believe they created a new character for the drama that did no good for the story. They diluted the essence of the story by bringing him in. Sigh...

Also is this actor in the production crew? He's in all the BTS instructing and directing other actors. Was he a last minute hire?

All else being equal, yeah birth order matters even if you are a consort's kid. It's usually little tricky if 1st prince is consort's, 2nd is Empress, then it'll depend on what rank the consort is (she could just be a maid/servant too), which is partially tied to which family or faction is behind the mother, and probably how well the child does. Empress' child usually trump everyone else's unless they screw up badly, or someone else is notably super brilliant or it's times of turmoil etc.

 

Feng Hao was more like a 18 year old I think, just didn't care about going to school and do lot of dumb richard simmons. (Ok 18 in the modern sense) Zhiwei was also older, so she would have had more responsibility andgirls are generally presumed to be more mature as a teen and sensible too. But yeah they could have emphasised more on why he's the way he is. He has some pretty adorable and heartfelt scenes in the drama though, lot more likeable compared to the novel. Same with their cousin Qiu Yuluo.

Spoiler

Mama Qiu doesn't really waver much in the novel. I think there was ANOTHER twist, where she finds out Feng Hao isn't Mama Qiu's son? She begged Gu Heng to take him away, so that might partially explain why she could be so ruthless. But then...it turns out....Gu Heng sent his son back.... 

 

hahahaha He's the co-director of the drama. His wife is in there too, I think it was Ning Qi's wife...? It was either her or his mum (either way, the other is another production member's wife) He broke his leg early in the production, so they just worked it into the scenes. He actually majored in acting in late 90s but that didn't seem to help here. Everyone's been suspecting they ran out of money/time to hire an actor tbh, and along with the comparatively shoddy script (I know it's edited badly too) builds up to this theory that they rewrote the ending arcs on the fly very late into the drama. but who knows. Scriptwriter say it's her fault in an FAQ posted around when it hit Netflix, but she doesn't elaborate further.

 

That said, I don't think they diluted the story so much as they didn't smooth him into the other bits of the drama. If there was more of mentions of him, or he cameo'ed in earlier scenes, or helped in Ning Sheng's scheme, whatever, it would have transitioned the last arc better. They needed to round up the Bloody Pagoda/Dacheng remnants, and throughout the drama, you don't see them do anything. There's been people questioning how they could do anything with so little people. Turns out they did have more people, you just never see them. In the novel, they were convenient plot device for intel gathering + creating chaos + bodyguards, I know they took it out because it's unrealistic, but they wiped it way too clean. I guess in story reason is, 4th Prince had all that instead but he was subjugated and lost the hope and will to restore the kingdom, and turned to revenge instead. Plausible story but badly executed.

 

Actually, on top of Zhiwei's tendency to blame herself, if her being lied to, first about her being a Princess, second, about her being an only hope or whatever, it might help smooth the ending too. Ahhh wait, I think this was novel logic, where she spent all of the book being taken care of and working with these people, and she worked really hard to create a place for them, and was set up to do so. Anyways I'll stop rambling about the novel since very different characterisations and dynamics there, romantic or familial wise.

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7 hours ago, skibbies said:

I wouldn't call it nice but a scene that stuck with me was when Zhiwei went home after becoming Imperial Advisor and they had a fight. She wanted her to stop doing what she was doing, because it was dangerous, not just because she's a remnant, but because she's a girl and lying to the emperor would leave her dead. She said it super angrily and very much "I'm telling you to do this because I think it's good for you" which is an incredibly common way Chinese parents tend to communicate with their kids. I know that doesn't necessarily make her sympathetic, but it does make her real to me, make it very clear she was struggling between her duty to Dacheng and her love for her child. The scene when Zhiwei was in jail was fantastic too, but well, Zhiwei was sentenced to death.

17 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

I saw Qiu Mingying as a little more of a gray character though. In one of the flashback scenes, it was shown that her husband carried off one of her sons right after she gave birth, when she was too weak to stop him. Maybe it is the sunk cost fallacy? She might have felt that she already lost so much for Dacheng, she might as well keep going on this path.

 

 

I get that she showed a lot of tough love and her personality is stiff after going through many hardships in life; losing her son, husband, empire, kicked out of her family, enduring the humiliation of then coming back etc. Her being general before (not sure if its true in the drama but likely because she knows martial arts) also adds to this demeanor.

She's not a black and white character by any means. It's just that from a likeability point of view, it would've helped to see a softer side.

I know we don't have to like every character but personally I wanted to see one more mother-daughter affectionate scene. Even a smile from her. If only to justify how much zhiwei lost because of her. 

I do like the jail scene a lot. That alone made me care about her more.

 

11 hours ago, whisper1 said:

You asked why I  have Master Zong on my blacklist for exploiting one of my favorite characters  GuNanyi. MZ is essentially the only family and home GN knows, but what has Zong done with him? Decided early on after an assessment of Nanyi's abilities that martial arts was the kid's powerhouse neglecting  the development  of everything else. What he created was a weapon to be used, and he used him. First to guard and protect FengZhiwei. He is presented to us as a monosylabic,  flat, socially inept body guard, refered to as an idiot, basically a half of a person. Zong was content with that. FW little by little draws out GN's hidden abilities, not by demanding but by accepting what she could, correcting what she had to, and leading by example. GuNanyi was made whole by FW.

When Zong tells GuNanyi to protect FengZhiwei  and while you are at it kill NingYi. That did it for me. Zoneg wanted a weapon without a heart but he didn't  get it, because GN had learned to sympathize  and empathize  from FW, and refuses to carry out Zong's order to kill. GN goes on to memorize the medical manual  and transcribe it from memory, find a bit of romance with the little princess, and so much more, wish we had seen a bit more of him. He represents one of many in society who are overlooked, regected or exploited because they don't  fit the mold, and Zong jmo represents how that happens.

Being used as weapon is something NingYi struggles with too, deciding that he can become "the weapon with a heart", so I  was impressed when he cried as Ning Sheng went down. 

 

Ah thats an interesting thought. Is it really because of Zong Chen alone tho? I thought Zong saved him from some other tragic background story and gave him a life by looking after and training him. Really don't know much about Gu Nanyi's background in the drama to judge. I assumed his social ineptness was because of that trauma ( whatever caused him to lose his family) and maybe slight neuro-atypical traits. Hadn't thought about it being caused by Zong's upbringing. I guess it is possible.

Zong's not a hero by any means. Even though initially he's presented as Zhiwei's teacher and good friend of Qiu Mingying who helps a lot we later find that its all for the cause. Hard to know if he had a heart or not. Can only judge with people unrelated to the cause because he'll do anything to help or hurt someone for Dacheng. I still find it super shady that he kept the knowledge of the 4th prince from Zhiwei. I thought he cared about her more being her teacher and spending time with her but at the end I'm not so sure. We'll only know the truth of that if he had to choose between the 4th prince and her.

Except for that line he told Gu Nanyi "protect zhiwei" when he died made me think he realized prince might hurt her. 

As for how he treated Gu Nanyi, from Nanyi's perspective it seemed like he did alright but maybe thats cuz he's naive. Through a modern lens Zong had the responsibility of a parent after adopting nanyi and he definitely didn't treat him like a son but for that time, he was just a teacher/leader who essentially recruited Nanyi to be a soldier. Gave him a purpose and saved him from some other gruesome fate. Think his family was also involved with the bloody pagoda? idk someone else needs to clarify.

 

But you're right in that for someone who raised a person, he didn't give a damn about Gu Nanyi. Forget Zhiwei, he should've cared about Nanyi more but he just used him. Aww its so sweet of you to care about him in the midst of other louder characters.

 

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18 minutes ago, skibbies said:

Anyways I'll stop rambling about the novel since very different characterisations and dynamics there, romantic or familial wise.

No it is interesting. This is the source of inspiration after all. I don't care for it enough to read the whole novel but its nice to hear tidbits about it relating to the drama.

 

23 minutes ago, skibbies said:

hahahaha He's the co-director of the drama. His wife is in there too, I think it was Ning Qi's wife...? It was either her or his mum (either way, the other is another production member's wife) He broke his leg early in the production, so they just worked it into the scenes. He actually majored in acting in late 90s but that didn't seem to help here. Everyone's been suspecting they ran out of money/time to hire an actor tbh, and along with the comparatively shoddy script (I know it's edited badly too) builds up to this theory that they rewrote the ending arcs on the fly very late into the drama. but who knows. Scriptwriter say it's her fault in an FAQ posted around when it hit Netflix, but she doesn't elaborate further.

 

That said, I don't think they diluted the story so much as they didn't smooth him into the other bits of the drama. If there was more of mentions of him, or he cameo'ed in earlier scenes, or helped in Ning Sheng's scheme, whatever, it would have transitioned the last arc better.

1 hour ago, sonosong said:

He is the co-director if I'm not mistaken. I saw him going over scenes with Chen Kun and Ni Ni in the bts. Also, they used multi-cams and he was monitoring them with the crew. But I honestly wish his character was not created.  

Thats the thing they didn't transition him in. So it takes away from the story that unfolded before. You can justify it by saying he was in hiding or whatever but its bad storytelling to present him like this. Just how did he as a director stand for the ruining of the work he helped create <_< I'm starting to think there's a hidden conspiracy about the ending. Can we sue them?? ugh...

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11 hours ago, niniandkun said:

 

 

 

Ah thats an interesting thought. Is it really because of Zong Chen alone tho? I thought Zong saved him from some other tragic background story and gave him a life by looking after and training him. Really don't know much about Gu Nanyi's background in the drama to judge. I assumed his social ineptness was because of that trauma ( whatever caused him to lose his family) and maybe slight neuro-atypical traits. Hadn't thought about it being caused by Zong's upbringing. I guess it is possible.

Zong's not a hero by any means. Even though initially he's presented as Zhiwei's teacher and good friend of Qiu Mingying who helps a lot we later find that its all for the cause. Hard to know if he had a heart or not. Can only judge with people unrelated to the cause because he'll do anything to help or hurt someone for Dacheng. I still find it super shady that he kept the knowledge of the 4th prince from Zhiwei. I thought he cared about her more being her teacher and spending time with her but at the end I'm not so sure. We'll only know the truth of that if he had to choose between the 4th prince and her.

Except for that line he told Gu Nanyi "protect zhiwei" when he died made me think he realized prince might hurt her. 

As for how he treated Gu Nanyi, from Nanyi's perspective it seemed like he did alright but maybe thats cuz he's naive. Through a modern lens Zong had the responsibility of a parent after adopting nanyi and he definitely didn't treat him like a son but for that time, he was just a teacher/leader who essentially recruited Nanyi to be a soldier. Gave him a purpose and saved him from some other gruesome fate. Think his family was also involved with the bloody pagoda? idk someone else needs to clarify.

 

But you're right in that for someone who raised a person, he didn't give a damn about Gu Nanyi. Forget Zhiwei, he should've cared about Nanyi more but he just used him. Aww its so sweet of you to care about him in the midst of other louder characters.

 

I have selfish motives when it comes to the rich cast of characters in RotP.  They provide the viewer with a lot to chew on, and I  can be like a dog with a bone, only satisfied when I've  exhausted  myself,lol. I greatly appreciate the discussion.

 

Why is his name GU Nanyi? Could he be the lost son of Chief Gu? Or why does he have the same birthmark as FengZhiwei?  Just wondering...

 

We first meet GN as this wuxia warrior, the strong silent type, a stone cold killer if ordered ,  thorny. When FengZhiwei  lifts his hat his face looks angelic, innocent, almost fragile, childlike, true dichotomy. Screen time well spent.

 

This may be a question of nature or nurture. 

I will give Master Zong credit for a few things, he recognized a talent  successfully training him to be a terminator, and to read and write. He provided housing.

 

GN admits to FW he doesn't  or didn't  have a home, no concept of friend. All his personal and intra personal growth seems to come via FengZhiwei's nurturing. Nanyi doesn't  even know what tears are until he is overwhelmed with motion as FengZhiwei  cries on his shoulder. JMT a beautiful growth of a character without beating the audience to death. The same goes for the scene with Mama Yale, wonderful stuff. GuNanyi  takes important baby steps toward becoming a complete person...a doctor? A husband? No longer limited to existing  as Zong's  robotic killing machine.

 

Back to Mama Qui. Anyone think she was motivated by a good bit of resentment toward FengZhiwei for surviving while her own child was sacrificed? 

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On 12/1/2018 at 9:00 AM, troptina said:

Hi Everyone, I joined just to be able to follow this forum!  Like all of you, I'm also a HUGE fan of TROP!  I've probably rewatched the series at least several times!  I know there are big differences between the drama and novel, but can some of you help me understand how you figured out whether FZW is really the remnant or not?  I was confused with the flashback that showed Gu Hen with 2 infant boys and presumably a girl wrapped in the yellow blanket.  I thought Mama Gu gave birth to twin boys.  So does this mean that either Mama Gu isn't really her birth mom or that she's not the real remnant?  I also heard that Feng Hao isn't really her brother.  Can someone help me with this confusion?  And also to clarify the differences in her identity in the drama vs novel?  Thanks so much!

 

I was confused about this too.

why is there a birth certificate for the ninth prince? Was that faked to protect FZW? And why does FH has a birth mark too? Was it also fake to act as a cover?

 

why did everyone says it’s a prince but ended up a princess? 

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I feel that FZW mum is selfish because she decided her fate for her by making her swear on something that makes no sense. NY didn’t kill her husband. It was crown prince. And NY saved FZW so many times. She’s ungrateful. 

 

She is also manipulated by Zong to have FZW become an official in order to overturn the empire. FZW already want to let go of the past but Zong kept urging her on. And that brother part is so annoying. It’s not convincing.

 

Its gaining popularity worldwide. If there is a season 2, I feel like it can be continued with GN saving FZW from the cliff. And maybe hide her away from the royalty. 

 

NY can marry Secretary Yao daughter as part of the storyline to further his bloodline. Perhaps later in the story, he met FZW again.

 

I feel like there’s so many back story missing. Like GN background? Where did he come from? Who is he? I’m very curious.

 

I also don’t know why they killed off Hui Qiong. She’s a good pair up with FZW because they are similar in character. 

 

I wished that Helian died off earlier in the show. 

Does that mean that even though FZW married him, they were never together like a couple? 

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Why does the emperor lock NY up for 8 years but appears to be more lenient towards other sons who attempted to kill him? Like NS was let out of the prison after a short while but unfortunately he died. 

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On 12/3/2018 at 8:33 AM, whisper1 said:

Why is his name GU Nanyi? Could he be the lost son of Chief Gu? Or why does he have the same birthmark as FengZhiwei?  Just wondering...

He's Gu Yan's son in the novel but they aren't related in the drama. At the beginning of episode 23, Gu Yan was kneeling in front of his wife and child's plague, I think, so they have no relations in the drama. It's just a shared last name, Gu isn't super unusual. I don't remember him having the same birth mark?

 

On 12/3/2018 at 9:19 AM, alittlemei said:

why is there a birth certificate for the ninth prince? Was that faked to protect FZW? And why does FH has a birth mark too? Was it also fake to act as a cover?

 

why did everyone says it’s a prince but ended up a princess? 

Both faked, and used as "evidence" when discovered. As for why a prince, because it's easier to hide a child when you misgender them, also because a prince is easier to gather remnants as hope to restore the lost kingdom, than a princess.

 

On 12/3/2018 at 9:30 AM, alittlemei said:

I feel that FZW mum is selfish because she decided her fate for her by making her swear on something that makes no sense. NY didn’t kill her husband. It was crown prince. And NY saved FZW so many times. She’s ungrateful. 

 

Does that mean that even though FZW married him, they were never together like a couple? 

No one knows what happened that night. Ning Yi could have helped Crown Prince killed Gu Heng. The audience knows he didn't, but Qiu Mingying doesn't. Ning Yi did solicited Gu Yan to be a traitor, however. Marriage is between two families, especially in those times and especially if it's to royal family. Considering Zhiwei's identity, there's high chance that she'd end up unhappy or dead. Ning Yi at the time was an unfavoured prince who just got released from prison with very little power, who may get pulled into power struggle that usually end up with him and families tied to him died, which even under other circumstances isn't a great match. I'm not sure if Qiu Mingying knows Ning Yi saved Zhiwei afterwards? It's very unclear how good the information network Zong Chen had access to, and even if he had good amount of info, it doesn't necessarily means Mama Qiu gets in the know, so I wouldn't call her ungrateful at all. She's just working with very different set of information and values.

 

Zhiwei doesn't like Helian Zheng romantically, he knows that, it's made clear repeatedly. They married because there wasn't any other choice presented to her.

19 hours ago, alittlemei said:

Why does the emperor lock NY up for 8 years but appears to be more lenient towards other sons who attempted to kill him? Like NS was let out of the prison after a short while but unfortunately he died. 

Ning Yan died. Ning Chuan was stripped his Crown Prince title, imprisoned then died. Ning Qi was imprisoned and went crazy. Ning Sheng was stripped his prince position (making him a commoner and can't be buried in the royal tombs or recorded as a prince) and imprisoned. He almost got killed but both Ning Qi and Shaoning begged to keep him alive AND his mother requested to die in his place. That's not lenient at all. I think he might have requested a place to study buddhism and that's where he stays, it could be a very nice prison too. Narrative-wise, he's mostly let out to round off a plot thread and up Ning Qi's kill count I guess? Ning Qi's last scene looks like House of Lanxiang, idk what's up with that, but it's not as desolate as where Ning Chuan was staying. Ning Yi kept his Prince of Chu title while imprisoned. (I still have no idea how he kept that...it should have been stripped.. )

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11 hours ago, alittlemei said:

Why does the emperor lock NY up for 8 years but appears to be more lenient towards other sons who attempted to kill him? Like NS was let out of the prison after a short while but unfortunately he died. 

I wondered this too. I'm guessing he became more lenient as he got older and that prophecy (one that stated all his children will die) was dawning on him.

EDIT: Just read @skibbies answer. I suppose its not lenient in that regard.

RE:

Yes, birth certificate was faked along with the birth mark to act as cover.

Everyone said prince because thats the natural expectation especially for a potential regent.

Helian Zheng and Feng Zhiwei although married didn't consummate.

Missing backstory...well we know the show was cut short especially in the end. In that light it may be too much ask for everyone's backstory. But I found this on google that might help https://cfensi.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/an-introduction-to-the-characters-in-the-rise-of-phoenixes/

 

EDIT: Hold up...this link says Gu Yan is Gu Nanyi's biological father but under Nanyi it says his father abandoned him on the streets because he was autistic. Huh? lol ignore the info on that link. Think its from multiple sources. I'm still gonna leave it there because the other info is helpful.

 

Edited by niniandkun
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22 minutes ago, niniandkun said:

EDIT: Hold up...this link says Gu Yan is Gu Nanyi's biological father but under Nanyi it says his father abandoned him on the streets because he was autistic. Huh? lol ignore the info on that link. Think its from multiple sources. I'm still gonna leave it there because the other info is helpful.

Both of those are from the novels, the second is little debatable, but the information is from Gu Nanyi who got the information from Zong  Chen. From the last chapter of the novel

Spoiler

Gu Yan apparently didn't abandon him on purpose. Bloody Pagoda forced him to go on missions a lot and he had to leave Nanyi behind (idk with who, because Gu Yan's wife died giving birth). He betrayed Bloody Pagoda so it'll dissolve apparently, but that didn't work out well. Gu Heng hunted him down for betraying them, when he got home, Nanyi already disappeared, and was found by Zong Chen first.

 

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17 hours ago, whisper1 said:

Why is his name GU Nanyi? Could he be the lost son of Chief Gu? Or why does he have the same birthmark as FengZhiwei?  Just wondering...

1 hour ago, skibbies said:

I don't remember him having the same birth mark?

I want to know the answer to this too lol. On Episode 14, Zhiwei remarks that they both have the same mole near the eye (this is when they just joined Qingming and had their first meal together). I hoped for some interesting connection or backstory but nothing. So just a coincidence then?

 

17 hours ago, whisper1 said:

I have selfish motives when it comes to the rich cast of characters in RotP.  They provide the viewer with a lot to chew on, and I  can be like a dog with a bone, only satisfied when I've  exhausted  myself,lol. I greatly appreciate the discussion.

I really like Gu Nanyi but more for Zhiwei than for himself. He is a worthy addition to Zhiwei's entourage. That may sound mean but its just what I honestly feel. But can def relate to wanting to know more and understand all the characters in tRop.

17 hours ago, whisper1 said:

Back to Mama Qui. Anyone think she was motivated by a good bit of resentment toward FengZhiwei for surviving while her own child was sacrificed? 

Its hard to say. My take is that she didn't resent ZhiWei. She cared about her as the princess of the empire she devoted her life to and as a daughter she raised. But mostly because of the former. Her unwavering loyalty to dacheng and ethos of the time means she probably believed she was carrying out a divine order or very honorable mission. So sacrificing her kid is sort of like a good deed whose rewards even her kid might benefit from in the next life. Not that it wasn't a painful choice for her but I don't think she resented Zhiwei for it. Must have channeled it all to the Nings.

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15 minutes ago, skibbies said:

Both of those are from the novels, the second is little debatable, but the information is from Gu Nanyi who got the information from Zong  Chen. From the last chapter of the novel

  Reveal hidden contents

Thats too bad. Then it doesn't work in the drama because Gu Yan's wife and kid went missing after NingYi forced him to surrender. I can't remember what exactly happened with them now did Ning Chuan kill them or force them into hiding then they died? ah will keep a lookout for this on my next watch.

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I really like the scene when Zhao Geishi expressed to the Emperor his feelings of sympathy and sadness for NY's life as a commoner  after experiencing life as a royal.  He summed it up pretty nicely by chronologically stating his solitary life in the temple, then being shunned by his siblings, then having the love of his life shipped to Jinshi,turning into a commoner, and then to have his mother killed.  I was totally feeling like, yeah that's why turned out the way he did!  

 

Thanks everyone for helpine me understand the 'remnant' concept.  I totally get it now.  

 

By the way, does anyone know if the manga (https://ac.qq.com/ComicView/index/id/636445/cid/16) is actually based on the novel or not?  It's alot less daunting to read the manga, than trying to understand the electronic version of the book using translation (http://big5.quanben.io/n/huangquan/list.html).  Is this electronic version an abridged version of the actual novel?

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1 hour ago, troptina said:

By the way, does anyone know if the manga (https://ac.qq.com/ComicView/index/id/636445/cid/16) is actually based on the novel or not?  It's alot less daunting to read the manga, than trying to understand the electronic version of the book using translation (http://big5.quanben.io/n/huangquan/list.html).  Is this electronic version an abridged version of the actual novel?

It's based on the novel. Almost chapter to chapter I think? (judging by the chapter title anyways, I only skimmed the first chapter) It just started though and it's weekly updates, so it's going to take years to finish. The electronic version is the original version, it was posted as a web novel online, they even ported over all the announcements about her various books being published at the end XD If you are wondering why the chapters are so short in the beginning, I think it's because they were free chapters. The chapters gets longer and longer. It's only missing the extra/epilogue chapters. Someone is doing weekly partial translation of the novel (that skip a lot of description stuff) on tumblr iirc?

EDIT: wait wait manhua, how is it Changxi 14th year? does this mean she's 17 in the manhua? I guess that make sense?? why not make her 18 though? (The book spans from Changxi 12th winter to Fengxiang 5th. The Emperor died in Changxi 20th year, Changxi is emperor's name, as in Changxi emperor, not Ning Changxi, he doesn't get a name in the novel...I think? It's used as calender years too.)

 

Ok I got curious and read the manhua. It has a flashback of 16 years ago. So she's 17, when babies were born in Ancient China, they are 1 years old, then they age when it hits Chinese New Years. so if you were born in December, congrats, you are 2 years old when it hits January. I actually forgot babies were born as 1 year old for a bit because modern China doesn't do it anymore (Korea does though iirc) and I was like ?___?

 

also she became imperial advisor really fast, it'd have to be before CNY? but I thought she was there for several months at least? that's a really long winter.

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Upon rewatching the series, it is said that NY is locked up for 8 years because he met with General yuan cong. Isn’t he the general that was planted by the Crown Prince to fake a rebellion?

 

i always thought that he left the capital to get help for his brother prince #3. But now I understand that he was also trapped by crown prince scheme! 

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On 12/2/2018 at 1:38 PM, troptina said:

@Pollen AinneI completely agree that they really fell in love only after their own transformations.  However, it seemed pretty clear they were attracted to each other from the very beginning. I think it was the early realization that "this person is so different from anyone I've met." That's why FZW carried the clothes that NY gave her when she was running away from Qiu residence for her life.  It's also the reason for why he couldn't stay back when the masked men went to save her from Chang Hai's soldiers.  I still find it so funny that NY was so frank in responding to FZWs question of why he saved her in the first place by saying it's because he likes girls like her.  And for a split second she debates whether any of it could be the honest truth.

Yes they were attracted to each other. I mean Zhiwei could have left to explore the world as what she wanted but she stayed when she heard that Ning Yi might die. So she decided to help him. Although of course, she did owe him, so it might be part repaying a favor, but they definitely were attracted to each other from the start. It just wasn't love yet.

 

Ning Yi wasn't being frank when he said he liked Zhiwei though (at the beginning). He was deliberately avoiding Zhiwei's question by using "like" as an excuse. Zhiwei also calmly thought about his answer, because she wasn't affected that much. She simply called his lie by completely ignoring his excuse. I mean their feelings at the time were not that strong. But Zhiwei was intrigued at how deceptive Ning Yi was, and Ning Yi was intrigued at how perceptive Zhiwei was.

 

On 12/3/2018 at 9:30 AM, alittlemei said:

I feel that FZW mum is selfish because she decided her fate for her by making her swear on something that makes no sense. NY didn’t kill her husband. It was crown prince. And NY saved FZW so many times. She’s ungrateful. 

In the end, most characters in the story weren't black and white. I too quite disliked her. But she wasn't all bad. In the end, she did ask Master Zong to let Zhiwei choose for herself and she had no knowledge of the 4th Dacheng Prince so it wasn't because of his existence. In her own way, she did love her children. Yet, she was also bound to a deep loyalty to the previous dynasty. However, I can't quite understand how she can easily sacrifice Feng Hao for Zhiwei which makes one think that maybe her love for Zhiwei also stemmed from her loyalty. And yet, she did mention that she cared about what happens to Zhiwei now unlike before because now she sees Zhiwei as a daughter. I guess maybe Zhiwei was both daughter and princess to her so she weighed more than Feng Hao who was just a son... But the fact that she actually asked Master Zhong to not force Zhiwei meant that in the end, her love for her daughter as a mother won?

 

12 hours ago, skibbies said:

No one knows what happened that night. Ning Yi could have helped Crown Prince killed Gu Heng. The audience knows he didn't, but Qiu Mingying doesn't. Ning Yi did solicited Gu Yan to be a traitor, however. Marriage is between two families, especially in those times and especially if it's to royal family. Considering Zhiwei's identity, there's high chance that she'd end up unhappy or dead. Ning Yi at the time was an unfavoured prince who just got released from prison with very little power, who may get pulled into power struggle that usually end up with him and families tied to him died, which even under other circumstances isn't a great match. I'm not sure if Qiu Mingying knows Ning Yi saved Zhiwei afterwards? It's very unclear how good the information network Zong Chen had access to, and even if he had good amount of info, it doesn't necessarily means Mama Qiu gets in the know, so I wouldn't call her ungrateful at all. She's just working with very different set of information and values.

I wonder though if not once did she actually think that Ning Yi was seriously in love with his daughter? I mean, he did save her from a death sentence. That she should know about. And when Ning Yi freed her and Feng Hao from Ning Chuan, what was her reasoning about that? She already knew, Ning Yi knew about their secret and yet kept it hidden. I actually do think that Qui Mingying intentionally turns a blind eye to the reality of Ning Yi and Zhiwei's shared feelings because no matter what, she could only see Ning Yi as an enemy. In a way, even if she knew the entire extent of how much Ning Yi protects Zhiwei, she will never accept him or be thankful to him. 

 

On 12/3/2018 at 9:30 AM, alittlemei said:

NY can marry Secretary Yao daughter as part of the storyline to further his bloodline. Perhaps later in the story, he met FZW again.

I am sure that this is not gonna be a popular opinion, but I do like Yao Yangci as Empress. Not as Ning Yi's lover of course. But I can see her as someone who would work with him like Zhuyin. They are both regal and brilliant. And I hope no one stones me to death.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

I wonder though if not once did she actually think that Ning Yi was seriously in love with his daughter? I mean, he did save her from a death sentence. That she should know about. And when Ning Yi freed her and Feng Hao from Ning Chuan, what was her reasoning about that? She already knew, Ning Yi knew about their secret and yet kept it hidden. I actually do think that Qui Mingying intentionally turns a blind eye to the reality of Ning Yi and Zhiwei's shared feelings because no matter what, she could only see Ning Yi as an enemy. In a way, even if she knew the entire extent of how much Ning Yi protects Zhiwei, she will never accept him or be thankful to him. 

WIth Ning Chuan and keeping their secret, from her pov it'd be freeing them for his own agenda, which she doesn't know about. There's no reason to suspect at the time that Ning Yi likes Zhiwei (it's debatable from audience point of view that he likes her romantically at that point. He's interested in her, I'm still not sure about like). For the death sentence, yeah she might have turned blind eye to that, because what else was she suppose to do? He represent the family that destroyed her kingdom and her family. Even if there's feelings between her daughter and this prince, who's to say how much of it is real and how much of it is manipulation or with an agenda? I think even when she wanted to let Zhiwei do what she does, it doesn't include getting involved with Ning Yi in anyway because it's antithesis of what she believed in her entire life. Maybe if they had 10, 20 years, she would change.

 

9 hours ago, alittlemei said:

Upon rewatching the series, it is said that NY is locked up for 8 years because he met with General yuan cong. Isn’t he the general that was planted by the Crown Prince to fake a rebellion?

Yep! and he's only mentioned twice I think?

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14 hours ago, Pollen Ainne said:

 

On 12/3/2018 at 7:00 AM, alittlemei said:

NY can marry Secretary Yao daughter as part of the storyline to further his bloodline. Perhaps later in the story, he met FZW again.

I am sure that this is not gonna be a popular opinion, but I do like Yao Yangci as Empress. Not as Ning Yi's lover of course. But I can see her as someone who would work with him like Zhuyin. They are both regal and brilliant. And I hope no one stones me to death.

This is shallow but it irks me that she has the same hairstyle as Qiu Mingying. She better get a new hairdo as empress :lol:

I support the idea of her being empress only because I want NY to experience fatherhood and have the opportunity to be a better father than his own in this lifetime.

From the short scenes we see of her I can't see much physical chemistry between her and NY. Thats good, NY should'nt have it too good either. He better not fall for her, not even as a minor second love. Just care for her as a friend and mother of his kids. I allow him to experience other joys but not romantic love. Thats reserved for Zhiwei in his next life. I've officially lost it....:crazy::lol:

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