Quantcast
Jump to content
sugarplum892

[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

Recommended Posts

On 11/4/2018 at 2:32 AM, Pollen Ainne said:

Yes, they used it as a secret meeting place since Zhuyin was in control there. But... still... how real did they make it look? I mean, if Wei Zhi who seem to not be interested in "laying" with the ladies can be considered suspicious... then doesn't that mean everyone else does?

 

I am just playing devil's advocate here :D

@Pollen AinneI wonder if NY was Zhuyin's lover...there's a moment when FZ asks Zhuyin about her relationship with him and she looks away and is silent for a moment before explaining that both she and NY had had difficult lives. And then later when NY asks Zhuyin about her plans for the future and suggests she should find a good man and settle down, a tear streams down her face.

Edited by Diaroadic
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/11/2018 at 11:25 AM, Pollen Ainne said:

 

I wish a happy ending for them too. But Zhiwei vowed her soul to eternal damnation if she married Ning Yi in this lifetime. So maybe another lifetime?

If Zhiwei fake 'dies' and comes back to life, won't that be another 'lifetime'? Also NY tells her 'don't believe what you see' so many times it seems like a motif in this show foreshadowing something major that we shouldn't believe...like Zhiwei committing suicide by jumping off a cliff. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/2/2018 at 7:33 PM, whisper1 said:

I have selfish motives when it comes to the rich cast of characters in RotP.  They provide the viewer with a lot to chew on, and I  can be like a dog with a bone, only satisfied when I've  exhausted  myself,lol. I greatly appreciate the discussion.

 

Why is his name GU Nanyi? Could he be the lost son of Chief Gu? Or why does he have the same birthmark as FengZhiwei?  Just wondering...

 

We first meet GN as this wuxia warrior, the strong silent type, a stone cold killer if ordered ,  thorny. When FengZhiwei  lifts his hat his face looks angelic, innocent, almost fragile, childlike, true dichotomy. Screen time well spent.

 

This may be a question of nature or nurture. 

I will give Master Zong credit for a few things, he recognized a talent  successfully training him to be a terminator, and to read and write. He provided housing.

 

GN admits to FW he doesn't  or didn't  have a home, no concept of friend. All his personal and intra personal growth seems to come via FengZhiwei's nurturing. Nanyi doesn't  even know what tears are until he is overwhelmed with motion as FengZhiwei  cries on his shoulder. JMT a beautiful growth of a character without beating the audience to death. The same goes for the scene with Mama Yale, wonderful stuff. GuNanyi  takes important baby steps toward becoming a complete person...a doctor? A husband? No longer limited to existing  as Zong's  robotic killing machine.

 

Back to Mama Qui. Anyone think she was motivated by a good bit of resentment toward FengZhiwei for surviving while her own child was sacrificed? 

@whisper1 Hi everyone, I am thrilled to find this forum...having watch RoTP twice I need to 'talk' with other fans!  @whisper1, I suspect Gu Nanyi is Chief Gu's lost son. I love his character, strong, silent, gentle, yet a warrior - he's completely his own person. Chief Gu is rather like that too; he has a great deal of integrity. I want a second season partly to see how GN's story  develops.

 

Mama Qui is complicated... I think she does resent FZ somewhat, because her baby died so that FZ could live. Also that oath she demanded of FZ cannot be binding as her soul cannot rest, because she murdered the concubine Yahua. 

Edited by Diaroadic
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@sonosong The harem scene was weird...I didn't understand why NY ordered ZW to go there - he seemed shocked when she removed her robe. Did he  just want to talk to her privately? I was reassured by the way scene ended, with them embracing the way they did after he proposed to her in Minhai. I felt they had rekindled their feeling for each other, even though she looked sad.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Diaroadic said:

If Zhiwei fake 'dies' and comes back to life, won't that be another 'lifetime'? Also NY tells her 'don't believe what you see' so many times it seems like a motif in this show foreshadowing something major that we shouldn't believe...like Zhiwei committing suicide by jumping off a cliff.

Welcome Diaroadic!  I'm glad you found this forum!  Actually, a fan on TROP twitter page posted a translation of an interview of the writer of the drama recently, as it was the one year anniversary since the filming completed last Dec.  When asked whether FZW really died in the end, she hinted that they intentionally didn't film her dying was to let viewers have hope that she might not have died.  While this is comforting to hear from the writer, I don't think Season 2 will happen (unless somehow Neflix decides to commission the movie as a Netflix production).

22 hours ago, Diaroadic said:

I suspect Gu Nanyi is Chief Gu's lost son. I love his character, strong, silent, gentle, yet a warrior - he's completely his own person. Chief Gu is rather like that too;

In the novel, Nanyi is indeed Chief Gu's son.  In the drama it doesn't seem like they're related, as Chief Gu had acknowledged that his entire family died at the hands of Crown Prince.  You can read ninjareflection.com's novel translations to get some bits of the novel.  There are many things in the novel that's different from the drama.

 

5 hours ago, Diaroadic said:

The harem scene was weird...I didn't understand why NY ordered ZW to go there - he seemed shocked when she removed her robe. Did he  just want to talk to her privately? I was reassured by the way scene ended, with them embracing the way they did after he proposed to her in Minhai. I felt they had rekindled their feeling for each other, even though she looked sad.

Honestly, the whole harem scene was just terribly edited.  Some people felt that scene was "forced" and there was very little chemistry left between them.  In terms of what happened that night we don't know.  I'm glad you interpreted that they rekindled their love for each other.  The novel ended is a happy one--you can read it from ninjareflection.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read ninjareflection and it gave me hope. What's the point in basing a show on a novel then stopping half-way, with lots of loose ends? The writer probably couldn't say whether or not there will be a season 2, but leaving the ending open is an old trick and indicates that the producers were keeping their options open. Netflix may well commission another season as TROTP has been an international success, though not so much in China...I'm still hoping...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/18/2018 at 4:38 AM, Diaroadic said:

@Pollen AinneI wonder if NY was Zhuyin's lover...there's a moment when FZ asks Zhuyin about her relationship with him and she looks away and is silent for a moment before explaining that both she and NY had had difficult lives. And then later when NY asks Zhuyin about her plans for the future and suggests she should find a good man and settle down, a tear streams down her face.

Welcome to the forum :)

I don't think they were lovers or even slept together. NY doesn't show a sliver of attraction towards her and there is no lingering awkwardness between them. Zhu Yin wouldn't be so casual teasing him about Zhiwei. He came to Lanxiang on the pretext of being a tailor and exaggerated his eccentricity. Think that helped him get away with not sleeping with anyone.

Regarding her reaction on those two scenes, the first one I think it's because she was suddenly reminded of the Wugu incident. The tragedy of that incident and how it ruined their lives is what brought NY and Zhu Yin together.

Second reaction, well...she was forced to live in a brothel for 8yrs. Probably tired of men. And after going through everything she had, settling down like a normal person might have seemed so far fetched. There's no way she can truly re-enter honourable society, she'll always be shunned for being a Lanxiang woman. Their convo after that is how zhiwei inspired her to be curious about the world and look beyond what was typically expected from them.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the chance of s2 will be super low, and even if they do, I sincerely hope it's with a different cast and story. This story is fairly complete, it's just all the deleted scenes gaps, continuing it would be Ning Yi as an emperor. As far as making that as a drama, it's not going to be pretty. It'd have to be court intrigue which this team could be decent at, but not excellent, and would be hard to get pass SARFT I think. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, skibbies said:

I think the chance of s2 will be super low, and even if they do, I sincerely hope it's with a different cast and story. This story is fairly complete, it's just all the deleted scenes gaps, continuing it would be Ning Yi as an emperor. As far as making that as a drama, it's not going to be pretty. It'd have to be court intrigue which this team could be decent at, but not excellent, and would be hard to get pass SARFT I think. 

@skibbies S1 ended about halfway through the novel/story it's based on. The second half of the novel follows FZ and Gu Nanyi's  adventures and brings FZ and NY back together again - a great story-line for S2 imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RITUAL ETIQUETTE VIDEO HERE!

 

All of the behind the scenes videos for The Rise of Phoenixes are incredible but the one on ritual etiquette and bowing is my favorite, which I just watched. It underscored just how careful the showrunners were in constructing a complete world with its own internal logic (at least in the beginning…) The etiquette master talks extensively about how movement and physicality is inextricable from culture and how they’ve used these ritual movements to create fuller characters who are more authentically of their time and culture (even if in this case, the culture is a fictional one inspired by imperial China). This is the kind of attention to detail that makes this show immersive as hell.  

 

The best BEST BEEEESSST part is from 7:07-9:10 in which the etiquette master discusses the scene where Feng Zhiwei goes back to her old home with Gu Nanyi to see her mother for the first time since beginning her cross-dressing political adventures. Zhiwei has been disguised as a man, kicking richard simmons and taking names at court for a time by that point, but when she sees her mother after so long, she greets her with a woman’s bow. It’s her mom and Zhiwei’s been hiding from everyone but she doesn’t have to hide in front of her mother. And of course we know how that scene ends, with Zhiwei’s mother pushing her to give up her position so that her identity won’t be discovered, with Zhiwei refusing and finally, defiantly, bowing goodbye as a man. For a character who’s never fully able to be herself, who’s always slipping in between worlds and never quite fitting completely, this was such a heartbreaking moment of realization. She can’t go back to who she was and where she came from but neither can she give up even though it will inevitably cause her… just too much pain.  

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/6/2018 at 8:09 AM, altamarea said:

Wow It's amazing!  Sorry to cut your comment.

Ciao a tutti!

 Hi, I'm addicted with this drama.

Thank you all for the interesting comments, I read you with pleasure!
 

Benvenuto in Italy   storyofthestone !

Welcome to Italy! Thank you for the interesting love story, I know it, and I love the Basilica of San Vitale. I live here on the Adriatic, near Ravenna, in Rimini. Are you planning to visit the Republic of San Marino? We wish you a pleasant stay and vivid impressions.

 

Hi altamarea! I had a great time in Italy! It was actually my second time this year. Did not go to San Marino; only Rome, Venice, Ravenna, and Orvieto.

 

I love that the fans of this show are so international, by the way. It makes the discussions incredibly interesting, having so many different cultural perspectives. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/28/2018 at 5:32 PM, tendrilsofwind said:

 

That's such an amazing detail. I love it when other people pick up on things like this and share it.

 

 

I don't think Ning Yi knows what a healthy relationship looks like. He loves his mother like an eight year old boy--with an insatiable hunger for contact, all petulant tantrums and reckless behavior. Throughout the show, he craves intimacy, but also draws away at its unfamiliarity. The only thing he seems certain of is his mother's unconditional love for him. I can't think of a logical reason for him rejecting Zhiwei either, but NY is never logical when it comes to matters of the heart. I guess that's what happens when you start repressing your emotions at birth. Even in Minhai, he never let her plot with him. He always felt the urge to protect her, even after she learned to protect herself, even when it involved decisions he had no right to make. I don't want to say this applies to all men, but a lot of men, especially those who believe themselves to be brilliant, truly think they always know better. 

 


Is your username a reference to Dream of the Red Chamber? You should be used to anguish and misery then haha that show messed me up when I watched it as a child. 

 

For those of you devastated by the ending, just keep in mind no one in Chinese drama history has ever died after jumping off a cliff. The statistics are on our side. 

 

Haha, yes, it is a reference to A Dream of the Red Chamber. I read an English translation with the most gorgeous color illustrations when I was 11 and then watched the show from the 1980s. Probably the first drama I was ever emotionally invested in... I don't think I should have been watching and reading stuff like that at that age though. Too much sadness.

 

I absolutely love what you wrote re: NY and his complete lack of reference for healthy relationships. After finally finishing the show I feel so conflicted about the trajectory of his characterization. On one hand, someone like him has the cards stacked against him in terms of building healthy relationships and knowing how to be a good friend and partner. It was going to be an uphill battle from the beginning to learn how to be a person who knows how to trust and to express his emotions in a healthy manner. I think he equated love with the ability to protect and that warped into possessiveness when he gains omnipotent power as emperor.

 

On the other hand, I really hated that in the last part of the show, the writers kept trying to draw a parallel between NY and his horrible father, as if it was inevitable and predestined that he would turn out the exact same way. But Ning Shizheng and Yale's relationship was never analogous to NY and ZW's relationship. Yale was always an object of abuse and a prisoner in that whole deal. I felt like the writers wanted us the audience to empathize with the emperor's horrific actions. The writers seemed to want the audience to take it for granted that NY was going to become terrible in the same way that his dad was and so kept making him act in ways that would reinforce this idea. NY may have been a calculating, stone-cold schemer, but ultimately when it came to ZW, he wanted her to stay alive and be happy, even if it meant letting her go. So I resented that they were trying to set up NY as inevitably turning into his father, this selfish, heartless, possessive, paranoid patriarch who thinks he knows best for everyone. They are similar in some ways, but the way they wrote the predestined nature of NY's fate really bothered my optimistic American soul...

 

The emperor kept insisting that he and Yale were the same as NY and ZW and nobody ever calls him on that richard simmons. And then NY even kind of tacitly forgave his dad in the end, even though dad kept mom in solitary confinement for 18 years, which is literally psychological torture. We as the audience can see the episodes and episodes worth of evidence that NY and ZW are not like the emperor and Yale, but I didn't have confidence that the writers were on the same page as us. It felt like they were trying to make NY selfish and possessive in the last part of the show so as to justify the ending/force that parallel between father and son. NY went through so much struggle and character development. He had his own kind of idealism and in the end will be doomed to repeat the same mistakes of his dad? Were they implying that he'll also end up with a bunch of sons who will kill each other to succeed him? Like when he told XZY that he would never treat his sons like his dad, was that supposed to be foreshadowing that he actually would end up doing the same?

 

I think, for me, that horrible bed scene was the pivotal scene that made me realize what the writers' intentions were. As the story progressed, ZW became more and more sure (a faith that was sorely tested) that NY would never do anything to hurt her. And then there he was, physically shoving her onto the bed in that scene and also demanding that she be empress. He basically held the safety of the Dacheng subjects hostage in order to get her to agree to be empress. When that would mean she NEVER gets reincarnated. Did he forget about her oath? He can't have all her lifetimes if she marries him in that one. I think that's one of the signs that the writers intended for him to turn into a person who she ultimately couldn't trust to prioritize her wellbeing. Instead of letting her be free to make her own decisions, he was so desperate to have her that he would basically imprison her in his palace and sacrifice her future lives, just like his dad did to Yale.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Diaroadic said:

@skibbies S1 ended about halfway through the novel/story it's based on. The second half of the novel follows FZ and Gu Nanyi's  adventures and brings FZ and NY back together again - a great story-line for S2 imo.

The novel also had Zhiwei as protagonist and vastly different characterisations. There's lots of reasons why Ning Yi is the focus, Chen Kun is the star of the show for one, and they were very insistent on grabbing him for it. I'm happy that it was well received amongst those who liked it and the production company likely recouped its cost. That said, it's hardly a commercial success.

 

The other arc has a kid who's vital to the plot that appears in Minhai but she never showed up, and tbh that was an arc that felt little unnecessary, but it was handy way for Zhiwei to gain power, and then she restored her kingdom. Tiansheng was split in half because Ning Yi let her have swift victory (tbf she could have done it on her own, it'd just lot more bloody), that's not going to fly with SARFT. 

 

The production team had pretty clear ambitions, they wanted to fuse court intrigue with complex characterisation, and splash of romance. Would an adventure story be cool? Yeah. Do I think the same team will make one? No. They really don't feel like it (and I'm not sure if they can make it good tbh). Could it still happen? I guess, with a different cast and team. However it'd likely bomb, since it's not what the fans expected/liked tRoP for, and people who normally would like adventure story wouldn't watch a sequel. Unless you have very little to do with first story AND you are so good at adventure story that it overshadows the other new and unexplored IP with actors who have bigger fandoms.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@storyofthestone I think Ning Yi was getting desperate after mum died and Xin Ziyan parted ways with him. He was little possessive and being an Emperor doesn't help, even if he doesn't use the position to do anything, the fact he holds power over Zhiwei unbalance their relationship.

 

As for the last part of the show, there's fair bit of Ning Yi doom to the lonely and bloody road of being an emperor, because that's how it has been in history. I think the comparison between the two pairs was exaggerated, but if Zhiwei stayed, even if she could became an Empress, she'd be trapped in the palace, probably have to share her husband and can't actively participate in court, and that would breed resentment. I think for the bed scene, he was angry that she was using their relationship to bargain for these strangers' lives, he didn't expect her to agree to sleeping with him for that. For Zhiwei, it's like she said, "now I have an excuse to do what I want" + extrapolating from the book, sleeping with him is quoting from the books "paying back what they had", like culmination AND closure to their relationship. 

 

Ning Shizheng didn't want his son to fight to death over the throne, I don't think any father do, but it seems to happen fairly often when it's royal family. Would Ning Yi's kids do so? Maybe, one can only hope it's lot less bloody than this one. Even with a competent crown prince, one have to give enough chance for him to practice and learn, but at the same time, not too much power that he might just overthrow you. If there's other competent prince, one have to spread the power and balance the court (what Ning Shizheng tried), it's not exactly easy.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 000sadface000 said:

I just finished it and I can't stop crying literally can someone please tell me what the novel ending was? Cause I can't deal with this one.

I sympathize with you. I felt the same way too. You can read bits of the novel ending translated in English from ninjareflection.com . The YouTube behind the scenes also helped.  After rewatching it a few times, it starts getting less painful.  I recently was finally able to move on to some of Ninis other movies, although none were as good.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/28/2018 at 1:00 AM, troptina said:

I sympathize with you. I felt the same way too. You can read bits of the novel ending translated in English from ninjareflection.com . The YouTube behind the scenes also helped.  After rewatching it a few times, it starts getting less painful.  I recently was finally able to move on to some of Ninis other movies, although none were as good.

I agree, in RotP  Nini really shines, her comedic as well as dramatic  talents are wonderful, hard to follow up. ChenKun, what can I say? ... I watched 2 complete viewings because I couldn't  focus on anything but their pairing.

On 12/21/2018 at 9:57 AM, Diaroadic said:

@skibbies S1 ended about halfway through the novel/story it's based on. The second half of the novel follows FZ and Gu Nanyi's  adventures and brings FZ and NY back together again - a great story-line for S2 imo.

 

I can certainly  envision a second season. There are loads of threads to pull. 

I have no problem with the show deviating from the book, and many times the show is better than the source. Example: Game of Thrones, I found the show a huge improvement over the books. (Reading them was like getting unmedicated dental  work) whole storylines, characters, settings were chucked into the dustbin with good result. 

 

MTS on second season: 

FengZhiwei  is smiling way too much for a suicide. The ever loyal and vigilant  Gu Nanyi  uses his wuxia powers to save her but she is injured. He takes her to a secret location where she recuperats under his doctoring, but there is some memory loss. Oh and she is pregnant but the details escape her.

 

NingYi  soldiers on as emporor,  heartbroken without her love and estute council. Remaining celibate  despite several romantic closecalls. All the while grooming NingJi to eventually replace him so he can roam the empire trying to satisfy the question " where is her body??"

Please feel free to add on, I love a challenge to put creativity to use over the holiday. All passionate and talented members here could probably build a killer storyline!!!

 

Ps I watched Balzac and the Little Chinese Seamstress, I thought it a lovely film,very well done. Going to try Painted Skin.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


Announcements



×
×
  • Create New...