[Mainland Chinese Drama 2018] The Rise of Phoenixes 凰权·弈天下

[galea]

Has anyone else seen this post yet? It looks quite interesting, especially the pictures of some scenes that (I think) didn't make it into the final version. 
https://movie.douban.com/subject/26761328/discussion/615780214/

[pristineqi]

1 hour ago, tendrilsofwind said:

 

How did they even find Soompi? I had such a hard time even finding a forum where tRoP was even discussed.

 

Soompi used to be more for international fans of K-entertainment. I registered because of K-dramas ... ehhhh, and Lee Min Ho lols 

 

I wish n pray fervently that a DVD will be produced for the whole 100 episodes ... with a happy ending, pleassssssse. [Psssst, do you think they will hear my prayer?? Or read my request here in Soompi?? :P]

[tendrilsofwind]

1 hour ago, galea said:

Has anyone else seen this post yet? It looks quite interesting, especially the pictures of some scenes that (I think) didn't make it into the final version. 
https://movie.douban.com/subject/26761328/discussion/615780214/

 

That person should go into investigative journalism. She is truly the Upton Sinclair of our times. I took a look at douban and they are just as conflicted there as we are here, but she seems to be of the same opinion as me, in which case she has my undying support 

 

 

[yunmo19]

1 hour ago, galea said:

Has anyone else seen this post yet? It looks quite interesting, especially the pictures of some scenes that (I think) didn't make it into the final version. 
https://movie.douban.com/subject/26761328/discussion/615780214/

 

I visited douban forum when I was watching the series too. The quality of this drama's discussion forum excels as well   Their analyses brought out a lot of things I didn't notice in the plot and production, which REALLY helped a lot.

 

I will try to summarise the stuffs pointed out on this thread later today, when I have time/

[staygold]

@skibbies Thank you for translating! Wish I could read all the comments!! I translated first comment and it said " Foreigners are not stupid!"  Well thank you to the poster! 

 

I doubt if anything in this drama is there without a reason. Everything has to have a thought behind it. The care with which they have shot and lit every scene proves that. 

 

My favorite scenes so far have been the board game between Ning Yi and the Emperor, and the confrontation between Ning Yi and the general.

[pristineqi]

https://ninja-reflection.com/2018/09/03/rise-phoenixes-ep1-3-summary/

 

Whoopee!!! I just found the above 

[skibbies]

5 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

 

I kind of want to see those NiF threads now too!

 

How did they even find Soompi? I had such a hard time even finding a forum where tRoP was even discussed.

For NiF: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4156660186?pn=1

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-funinfo-6760301-1.shtml

 

As for how they found soompi, it's a really big forum for kent and the only forum I could think of when it came to dramas. I remember it from d-addicts days but that's no longer active. Living/studying oversea kind of means you remember these. Although I think they might have just googled title + discussion or forum. I'm surprised they didn't look into tumblr, there's another thread where a fan casually looked into the tRoP tag on twitter and tumblr, someone wrote a massive first impression post on tumblr iirc.

 

2 hours ago, staygold said:

My favorite scenes so far have been the board game between Ning Yi and the Emperor, and the confrontation between Ning Yi and the general.

I really like the use of Go in this drama, it's used to imply fair amount of things  Ning Yi have many more amazing scenes to come.

[tendrilsofwind]

11 hours ago, skibbies said:

For NiF: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4156660186?pn=1

http://bbs.tianya.cn/post-funinfo-6760301-1.shtml

 

As for how they found soompi, it's a really big forum for kent and the only forum I could think of when it came to dramas. I remember it from d-addicts days but that's no longer active. Living/studying oversea kind of means you remember these. Although I think they might have just googled title + discussion or forum. I'm surprised they didn't look into tumblr, there's another thread where a fan casually looked into the tRoP tag on twitter and tumblr, someone wrote a massive first impression post on tumblr iirc.

 

I saw that tumblr post! It was so beautifully written. Are you talking about this one?

http://dangermousie.tumblr.com/post/178076756261/rise-of-the-phoenixes-initial-thoughts

 

I'm always so happy when I find people to discuss Chinese dramas with. Making an account on Chinese forums require stuff like your phone number and I am paranoid so I never make an account. It also takes me longer to read Chinese so I prefer english discussions. 

[yunmo19]

Ok, here goes the speculations of our friend at douban on the changes made to the original script based on behind the scene materials, cut movie clips and weibo interactions of some actors. She posted another article on weibo (https://www.weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309404284525340455382&sudaref=s.weibo.com&sudaref=www.facebook.com&display=0&retcode=6102) with more bts details so I'm gonna translate both.

 

Spoiler

1. Minhai arc

-  From pictures of the leaked movie script, apparently there were more scenes for FZW to show her political acumen and leadership skills. There was supposedly an explosion (?) scene at Minhai harbor, and FZW organized the rescue operation. A character named Zhou Xizhong, a prominent guy aligned with Chang clan, was involved in this scene (curiously I cannot find any information about casting for this guy)

- Gu Nanyi got some character development scenes, leading to him being more mature later. The author also said something about the timeline is messed up. In the character introduction and the actor's weibo post, they said GNY and FZW were together for 8 years but the timeline in the drama did not add up. ??? Have to wonder where those years went....

2. Hua Qiong's fate

- A bts clip showed her alive, swimming and calling FZW's name in the flood at Jin Siyu's residence. More movie still and pictures showed her in a green garb we never saw on screen, and her accompanying FZW in the scene at the cliff where NY's mother died. It's pretty much certain that she was not supposed to die at the end of Jin Siyu's arc and even accompanied FZW back to Tiansheng. There was no clue about her eventual fate in this version though.

3. Final scenes between NY, FZW and Ning Shizheng (the Emperor)

- In the scene NY talked to FZW before their first night together, a bts clip showed him with different dialogue (he was being a lot creepier). This part was changed in the final version.

- In the scene FZW confronted Ning Shizheng, their conversation was clearly dubbed over. The way the scene was shot made it impossible to tell what they were saying, but apparently NSZ did not say anything about FZW cannot marry NY.

- The infamous deleted scene of father and son bowing to each other, apparently a scene where they made peace and NSZ handed over his powers to NY. I think I saw that scene somewhere (with sub) so I will try to find it later to get what they were talking. 

4. More cut scenes: There were like a hundred GBs of movie clips and movie stills with deleted scenes.... Some notable scenes: FZW pointing a knife at her throat to threaten Jin Siyu, the Dacheng emperor (FZW's father) killing someone (the empress?) and laughing madly, and FZW in a garb we never saw in the film, etc. 

 

The author also came up with a theory of a different version of the final arc, but I will leave that out to avoid confusion.

 

[MikiRei]

Spoiler

Further to the above, that link you posted also discussed about the behind the scenes clip where they were rehearsing the ending (but it's the version with FZW and NY together).

 

However, in the rehearsal parts, Ni Ni said the lines, "Have I changed a lot?" This signifies that there's been a lot of years in between. Otherwise, there's no reason for FZW to be asking NY whether she's changed a lot. It also explains the beard NY suddenly grows. It looks like the original version actually took a lot more years before NY became emperor- and not all of the sudden. The bowing scene pretty much implies that. 

 

Oh, btw, the Weibo post didn't mention the bit where FZW said "Have I changed a lot?" - I noticed no one's talked about that yet. 

 

[tendrilsofwind]

2 minutes ago, MikiRei said:

  Hide contents

Further to the above, that link you posted also discussed about the behind the scenes clip where they were rehearsing the ending (but it's the version with FZW and NY together).

 

However, in the rehearsal parts, Ni Ni said the lines, "Have I changed a lot?" This signifies that there's been a lot of years in between. Otherwise, there's no reason for FZW to be asking NY whether she's changed a lot. It also explains the beard NY suddenly grows. It looks like the original version actually took a lot more years before NY became emperor- and not all of the sudden. The bowing scene pretty much implies that. 

 

Oh, btw, the Weibo post didn't mention the bit where FZW said "Have I changed a lot?" - I noticed no one's talked about that yet. 

 

 

Spoiler

I was pretty shocked when I saw that beard too. Literally showed up overnight. This eight year theory makes so much more sense.

 

 

@yunmo19 thank you for taking the time to translate everything! You did a great job!

[zenya22]

Hello guys, glad I found this forum even though am very late but updating myself. I am only up to 21

 

I just found this amazing drama in Netflix and am so happy to find it in Soompi forums. This reminds of Nirvana in Fire which is one of my favorite well written dramas in the Chinese historical drama genre. I binged watched up to episode 21 and in episode 20 I found the confrontation of Emperor and Prince/Father and Son so stirringly tender and yet sullen on the part of Prince of Chu especially when he asks the emperor "are you asking me as my emperor or as my father" regarding his mother. The emperor in this scene never really asked what did happen to the mother, not wanting to know possibly because of guilt or because he already knew. The emperor abandoned both mother and son but his older brother the Prince of Qiao took him in and cared for him. He was only 8 years old. But it was good that the emperor heard from the horses' mouth so to speak the atrocious acts commited by his first born son/the crown prince. I love how Prince of Chu fought for justice for his brother the Prince of Qiao who was framed then murdered by the Crown Prince Ning Chuan. The crown prince then set up Prince of Chu to be the scapegoat and put under house arrest and confined to the Zhong zeng temple for years.  Episode 21: The other scene that I love was the formal redress announcement at the palace court and the statement of the title as the Crown Prince to the Prince of Qiao honoring him in the afterlife. I had tears for the Prince of Chu's reactions. The cinematography was excellent too. Just like NIF 1, there are misunderstandings between the scholar/strategist and the prince he supports, but the difference here is the scholar was not a scholar in the beginning but later and the scholar Zhiwei is a woman whom the Prince of Chu/Ning Yi was attracted to. On to the next episodes. I am going back to read posts in the forum to keep me updated. Thank you all for the posts.  The actor playing Prince of Chu/Ning Yi is so good and am going to look up his other works. 

[yunmo19]

2 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

 

  Hide contents

I was pretty shocked when I saw that beard too. Literally showed up overnight. This eight year theory makes so much more sense.

 

 

@yunmo19 thank you for taking the time to translate everything! You did a great job!

 

2 hours ago, MikiRei said:

  Hide contents

Further to the above, that link you posted also discussed about the behind the scenes clip where they were rehearsing the ending (but it's the version with FZW and NY together).

 

However, in the rehearsal parts, Ni Ni said the lines, "Have I changed a lot?" This signifies that there's been a lot of years in between. Otherwise, there's no reason for FZW to be asking NY whether she's changed a lot. It also explains the beard NY suddenly grows. It looks like the original version actually took a lot more years before NY became emperor- and not all of the sudden. The bowing scene pretty much implies that. 

 

Oh, btw, the Weibo post didn't mention the bit where FZW said "Have I changed a lot?" - I noticed no one's talked about that yet. 

 

 

I think 

Spoiler

in the final version, episode 68 also implied that some times (a few years even) passed between the scene where NY said he will bring the truth of his father's death to light as the Emperor and his crowning scene. I rewatched episode 68 and found that these scenes were separated by landscape scenes:

 

 

 

 

 

I think these scenes were meant to indicate the passing of time, and that meant the crowning did not happen immediately after the Emperor's (supposed) death. It also makes sense too - normally wouldn't they need some times for the Emperor's funeral and the royal family's subsequent mourning? Not to mention in the next episode, we find that Consort Qing is no longer in the palace and the 7th prince is already in hiding. They could not have been outsted so soon. I also would not put it past the director to skip the exposition and use imagery as a narrative tool (a straight example would be the scene where Xin Ziyan killed Lady Wang (the 7th prince's mother))

 

[moochiball]

4 hours ago, yunmo19 said:

Ok, here goes the speculations of our friend at douban on the changes made to the original script based on behind the scene materials, cut movie clips and weibo interactions of some actors. She posted another article on weibo (https://www.weibo.com/ttarticle/p/show?id=2309404284525340455382&sudaref=s.weibo.com&sudaref=www.facebook.com&display=0&retcode=6102) with more bts details so I'm gonna translate both.

 

Omg, so much deleted scenes!!! I won't mind having a 90 episodes version if they think 100 episodes is too long.

 

Spoiler

I wished they didn't cut out so much of FZW's parts. Hua Qiong's scenes were deleted so much as well! No wonder FZW made no fuss when her friend 'died'. 

 

I wished they didn't delete so much from the Min Hai arc. I wanted to see FZW take charge of something. After people found out she was FZW, it seems like the control she had over the situation begins to diminish more and more in the subsequent arcs 

 

 

[zenya22]

Episode 23 is somehow epic for me how strategic and yet ruthless Ning Yi can be. When the emperor chickened out of judging the traitor Chang Hai and yet again gave the order to Ning Yi to find a way to prosecute Chang Hai and save him from execution even though as Ning Yi said, Chang Hai commited an unforgivable traitoruos sin against country/kingdom and ruler. The emperor wanted Ning Yi to find a reason to save CH and go against the vote for execution by the officials because of the strong political influence of the Changs in court. I knew, I knew NY was going to do what he did, provoke Chang Hai to pick up a sword and swing at him therefore Ning Yi had an excuse of defending himself with a sword and cutting Chang Hai's neck. I even think that he knew beforehand what his father would ask of him. That he was already prepared for it. 

 

The father realized that this son can be as brilliantly devious and not as easy and dumb as his son the crown prince. 

[skibbies]

19 hours ago, tendrilsofwind said:

 

I saw that tumblr post! It was so beautifully written. Are you talking about this one?

http://dangermousie.tumblr.com/post/178076756261/rise-of-the-phoenixes-initial-thoughts

 

I'm always so happy when I find people to discuss Chinese dramas with. Making an account on Chinese forums require stuff like your phone number and I am paranoid so I never make an account. It also takes me longer to read Chinese so I prefer english discussions. 

Yeah that's the one. I almost want to use tumblr again but then I won't have time for anything else....

 

You can get by with some sites without a number, but it will still hassle you for one because they use it for password recovery a lot. I find the Chinese internet ecosystem kind of interesting since it's entirely separated from the English one, it's kind of neat. I read Chinese forums largely because none of my friends would watch the long cdramas I watched and my taste is bit niche compared to MDL's. Also to not get rusty with Chinese, and sometimes read fics (I read a bunch because of NiF and Disguiser, then I started reading web novels...) I peeked into a couple of blogs for cdramas when I watched NiF but never stuck around, so I'm pretty happy about soompi too.  A Virtual Voyager is a pretty active cdrama blog I think? They only have initial impression post for tRoP though.

[moochiball]

4 hours ago, zenya22 said:

I knew, I knew NY was going to do what he did, provoke Chang Hai to pick up a sword and swing at him therefore Ning Yi had an excuse of defending himself with a sword and cutting Chang Hai's neck. I even think that he knew beforehand what his father would ask of him. That he was already prepared for it. 

 

The father realized that this son can be as brilliantly devious and not as easy and dumb as his son the crown prince. 

 

I find it so interesting how different players of the court are driven by a different purposes, and NY uses this to his advantage to make it seem like his performing a task for the person (in this case the emperor) when it is actually aligning with his own personal motives.

 

Spoiler

I think the emperor also wants to kill Changhai. It's just that the Changs are too powerful. It's like an unspoken order given by the emperor to NY. The emperor doesn't want to be hold accountable for Changhai's death or else the whole Min tribe will hold it against him and use this as an opportunity to rebel. When he was reviewing the reports from the subjects, he was disappointed that a majority of them said to spare ChangHai's life and only 2 suggests to execute him. So he uses NY as an escape goat to execute Changhai and NY doesn't mind doing so because he just wants to give justice to third prince and his mum.

 

NY does the dirty work for the emperor, but he makes sure to let the emperor know that he is doing this because the emperor wishes him to, not because he wants to for his own motives. Even when he was ordered to capture the crown prince, he makes sure to let the emperor know that the emperor is making him do the dirtywork. This is so he can leverage on the fact that the emperor owes NY for doing his dirty work later on. 

 

But Xin ZiYan is against killing ChangHai because it means that NY will create a huge enemy out of the Changs and their supporters in the court. Hence his chances of seating on the throne will be slimmer. 

 

Because of how brash his actions are when plotting and planning, it makes me wonder what NingYi is thinking sometimes. Like ZiYan once asked NY, what's the hurry? Is it because he wanted to make sure Zi Wei's secret as the daughter of the lost empire to be buried so he executed changhai?

 

[skibbies]

6 minutes ago, moochiball said:

 

  Hide contents

Because of how brash his actions are when plotting and planning, it makes me wonder what NingYi is thinking sometimes. Like ZiYan once asked NY, what's the hurry? Is it because he wanted to make sure Zi Wei's secret as the daughter of the lost empire to be buried so he executed changhai?

 

Regarding why Ning Yi was brash:

Spoiler

I think with the goal of revenging 3rd prince so close, he's more irrational. That + ZhuYin's death, he cares deeply for everyone that becomes close to him, and Changhai killed ZhuYin. I don't think Changhai was close to knowing Zhi Wei's link to previous empire quite yet, though given more time, he probably would find out.

 

[yunmo19]

2 hours ago, moochiball said:

 

I find it so interesting how different players of the court are driven by a different purposes, and NY uses this to his advantage to make it seem like his performing a task for the person (in this case the emperor) when it is actually aligning with his own personal motives.

 

  Hide contents

I think the emperor also wants to kill Changhai. It's just that the Changs are too powerful. It's like an unspoken order given by the emperor to NY. The emperor doesn't want to be hold accountable for Changhai's death or else the whole Min tribe will hold it against him and use this as an opportunity to rebel. When he was reviewing the reports from the subjects, he was disappointed that a majority of them said to spare ChangHai's life and only 2 suggests to execute him. So he uses NY as an escape goat to execute Changhai and NY doesn't mind doing so because he just wants to give justice to third prince and his mum.

 

NY does the dirty work for the emperor, but he makes sure to let the emperor know that he is doing this because the emperor wishes him to, not because he wants to for his own motives. Even when he was ordered to capture the crown prince, he makes sure to let the emperor know that the emperor is making him do the dirtywork. This is so he can leverage on the fact that the emperor owes NY for doing his dirty work later on. 

 

But Xin ZiYan is against killing ChangHai because it means that NY will create a huge enemy out of the Changs and their supporters in the court. Hence his chances of seating on the throne will be slimmer. 

 

Because of how brash his actions are when plotting and planning, it makes me wonder what NingYi is thinking sometimes. Like ZiYan once asked NY, what's the hurry? Is it because he wanted to make sure Zi Wei's secret as the daughter of the lost empire to be buried so he executed changhai?

 

 

My take on NY: 

 

Spoiler

NY is smart, for all intents and purposes, but it doesn't necessarily mean he also has to be level-headed, alway thinks through every scenario and set up everything etc. He's also brash, intuitive and somewhat of a risk taker, especially when it hits too close to home (like when it involves his mother or FZW). Sometimes he doesn't plan, he just goes with it - remember when he talked with Xin Ziyan in the first episode about he doesn't have a plan to take down the Crown Prince? And when he decided to trust Gu Yan whose loyalty he couldn't be sure of? And  when he passed the poisoned ring to Zhao Yuan and later said he had no idea what his action could have caused? This side of his personality also showed up in another aspect of NY - he's actually rather prone to 'flipping the gameboard' (for lack of a better word). It's a common pattern in his actions that you will see in crucial moments near the end. 

 

[zenya22]

3 hours ago, moochiball said:

I find it so interesting how different players of the court are driven by a different purposes, and NY uses this to his advantage to make it seem like his performing a task for the person (in this case the emperor) when it is actually aligning with his own personal motives.

 

Ahhh, from how I understood the translation in Netflix on the vote for or against CH execution was the other way around, the vote for no execution 2 against the rest for yes execution. Thanks for the correction 

 

I think the Emperor and NY/father and son are two of a kind. When NY told the emperor he wants to investigate the crown prince, the emperor asked him if he was doing it because he wanted to take over the position of the crown prince and NY answered that he was the useless prince and had no desire at all to rule but to help his father do whatever needs to be done for the sake of the emperor and the empire. I could not help laughing. They communicate indirectly but understand each other thoroughly like when ZW used the moves of MY to play chess with the emperor to tell the emperor what NY intended to do. Maybe one of the reasons NY wants action fast is he feels he needs to rid of the bad influence in the court and the kingdom which affects the lives of people and the view of the people of the rulers of the kingdom. He wants to start with a clean slate? It is not a good start to rule a kingdom fighting with bad guys at the start of his rule? 

 

I love political dramas especially historical ones. There is so much jockeying and battling of wills going on..