[Official] Gao Wei Guang / Vengo Gao / 高伟光 ❤ Dilraba Dilmurat / Di Li Re Ba / 迪丽热巴 - Next project "The Pillow Book"

[Nupur Sinha]

2 minutes ago, sg_niner said:

They have never promoted this cp before. Why would they tease it now? I don't think they would do that only for generating viewership. As all said, the show is well-established, well-oiled, etc. They surely don't have to pull this trick to create viewership, knowing there could be possible backlash on actor and the show itself.

By tease i did not mean they were promoting the CP . I meant that clip was added to make  his Q & A seem more funny. By "generating curiosity" i meant promoting V's Q & A clip which kind of worked as everyone wanted to know whose name he wld take. I know this show has been airing for 20 years now and is very popular in China. But what i understand is that reality shows always release sensational clips beforehand so that audience are interested to watch the episode no matter how big the show is. But its all my personal opinion. You can think otherwise. No worries.

[Gdragonlove]

6 hours ago, Babyval said:

I think it’s unfair to attack V. But we must not forget this is China. And in China, things are done a little different. Everything is based on Volume. 
 

From my years in the fashion Industry, from being based in first, the UK, to  China, then to Japan, then traveling to all major shows LFW, NYFW, PFW and of course, Milan Fashion Week ( where of course, our GWG was a constant from 2017) twice a year, doing everything 6 seasons ahead, and managing the public image of a company and its branding, for 3 decades,  I can say this for certain. Fan base in China, is crucial. The bigger the fan base a brand has, the bigger the selling power. The bigger, the Volume. 
 

Where China use not to care about public image, it and its people now take public image to the nine heavens! Literally. 
 

In all, 耳边的小风， also analyzes that the ALS have already begun shipping  RB and Johnny Huang’s new drama, Love Advance Customization. Pulling out all stops to ship that Johnny is sweet and attentive to RB. ( Evidence presented in the post. ) 

 

Here is my two cents. I feel that V did very well last night at HC. He did the right thing by not revealing RB. Why? Because: 

1) He needs to get his Acting career off the ground. By this, he needs to keep a low public key on RB and his relationship. Keep public image, tight. Meanwhile he is going to have to go all out these 2 years, earn as much as possible, because he knows that a relationship cannot grow without bread. RB has her bread. He can, and should, do better.

2) Sexism in China. He, is a male, of Han decent. As such, he, has more leverage and more freedom in his contract. She, is female. And most likely, Muslim. So her contract with JX May, most likely be more restrictive.  
Sexism and sexual discrimination RULES in China. Though equal opportunities are slowly creeping in, the change is still slow. 

3) Increasing his income and placing himself on the road to success. His acting contract may be one thing. His modeling contract. Another. If his modeling contract is signed under another company, which, I strongly suspect it is so, then JX can only take very little out of the cut he gets for attending VIP shows in Milan and modeling for Vogue or Bazaar. Though JX can take a cut out of his taking on advertising for brands, the percentage and the number of brands he takes on, is negotiable, though, he has to do a minimum number for JX. Any extra and those covered on his modeling contract, they can’t touch. Conflict of Interest. 
Then Again, I can be all wrong. 

4) Acting Clout. GWG has already set the wheels in motion for himself to step outside the controls of JX. By his auditioning and getting the role of ZGS in Candle in the Tomb, he is changing his acting direction, and his image of Dijun in fairyland to more gritty roles, such as ZGS. 

It is suffice to surmise that he is preparing to cover more vertical roles in his acting, as oppose to staying in the grid of classics and fairyland. 

 

5) Timing. It is not a good time to reveal their relationship status now. Because of all above reasons. A wrong step now, threatens to derail, both his, and RB’s career prospects. 
 

6) JX. Because we have already TMOPB and ELOD, more than 100 episodes of pink bubbles plus BTS  to feed off, JX does not need to do too much in shipping this couple. With GR and all the stuff on WB and Zhihu, and more on tic tok and doyin,  this ship going on full steam. Best to maintain an air of mystery and keep the ship running on the fuel that was gathered before, than do a reveal now and run out of steam. 

There is no need for JX to do anymore than they need to, for now. No need to pore any more resources into shipping this couple. The ship is already sailing on its own steam, and full steam ahead. 
 

Overdoing it now, will just add legs to a snake, and the story won’t be attractive anymore. 

As to when GR couple will do a reveal, we will just have to wait and be patient. They will do a GX once the storm has let off, AND, when, RB’s career, nor GG’s, takes a beating AGAIN. 
 

Conclusion, GG has to get his acting and modeling career in balance and down pat.

He needs to get firmly established with a few ML roles, DONE WELL, under his belt.

 

He needs to further his international reach, by having 1 Hollywood movie or at least 1 foreign language film into normination at Cannes. 

 

Meanwhile, RB can do well by tweaking and carefully planning her career moves and mimicking his coming successes. At least, to be on par, but not, stealing the thunder from GG. 
 

Meanwhile, they can and should keep doing what they are doing now, in their relationship.  It’s good for GG, good for RB and GG’s relationship, and keeps the money rolling in and keeps the ship running. 

 

 

Yes, thank you for the explanation. i agree with your logic too. Popularity and fanbase is everything in China. It can make or break the actor/singer. Since both of them are getting popular now, it would be unwise for the agency or themselves to go public as it may cause them to lose their fans. I think it’s the same for some other chinese actors and singers to keep their relationships a secret until they announce their marriage.

 

Agree that V is starting to gain his popularity now so he needs to stabilise his acting career first as he has mentioned several times in his interviews that he really wants to become a better actor and want to do more roles. With als being so protective of R, it will be difficult for them to be “open”. If V make it too obvious, he may he attacked or boycotted which is bad for him and it will in turn affect R. Maybe that’s why both of them are “avoiding” making mention about each other so that R’s crazy fans will not make crazy comments again.

 

Although i am making some reference to korean celeb scene on how they manage their celebrities but I do believe it is true to a certain extent. For example, they need to manage good and bad publicity and how best to promote their actor/actress in a good light. Honestly, if they lose fans, ultimately they will be the ones who suffer. Take for example EXO-Chen who announced his marriage and baby arrival in January 2020 - it was received with mixed reactions and boycott even asking him to leave the group. See link here: https://www.koreaboo.com/news/k-exo-ls-begin-boycott-exos-chen-demands-withdrawal-group/

 

For the case of V and R who are well loved by fans now, if their relationship is exposed now, they may suffer some drop in their popularity now which is not ideal for them. Especially they are now on the path towards more drama and more appearances, after huge popularity increase from ELOD. Usually a lot of promotional activities will follow once you become famous and that is the time the celeb must grab hold of. If they miss it, the opportunity may not come again. Therefore I think both of them are focusing on their career at the moment, whilst trying very hard to maintain their secret relationship, away from all the negative als or reporters. The moment you have any negative news, the companies will not want to cast you anymore for fear or backlash or boycott. I am guessing this is one of the key reasons why JX, V & R are so careful about GR news recently. 

 

It is sad news for us but keeping low profile may be the best way for them at the moment until they feel it’s the right time. 

 

For us, let’s just focus on the happy updates and sweet treats we receive from this forum. We should be happy as long as there are happy news or evidence or them being together :> and wait for the official announcement from them! After all, there are already quite a lot of picture and video evidence, like the dinner with parents, photo taking for each other, eye contact during promotional videos, weibo updates!!! Hehehehe
 

Do keep the happy news coming in people!

[Gdragonlove]

59 minutes ago, triplesung said:

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4508251816751779

 

"GaoWeiGuang and Reba's Recommendation"

 

I mean...What is happening?  

I know this is a JX artist broadcast but RB is not even part of it.

 

Mhmm, probably they are paid or endorsed by the specific brand or product to “recommend” it? Given that a celeb is invited to participate on a big program for a special event, quite unlikely for them to pick and choose to say what they want. 

 

But if it’s not sponsored or scripted, then V must be helping R to promote her promoted product hahaha. Bit too obvious?

[Babyval]

@Gdragonlove NIIICE! Concise! as Dijun puts it- Li Luo. Which means - tidy. You pulled the end threads together so well! Love your writing! 

[triplesung]

1 hour ago, sg_niner said:

They have never promoted this cp before. Why would they tease it now? I don't think they would do that only for generating viewership. As all said, the show is well-established, well-oiled, etc. They surely don't have to pull this trick to create viewership, knowing there could be possible backlash on actor and the show itself.

For HC, there was probably not a lot of possible questions to ask him that would put him in a corner. Other than that, I would say they really are testing the waters.

 

28 minutes ago, Gdragonlove said:

 

Mhmm, probably they are paid or endorsed by the specific brand or product to “recommend” it? Given that a celeb is invited to participate on a big program for a special event, quite unlikely for them to pick and choose to say what they want. 

 

But if it’s not sponsored or scripted, then V must be helping R to promote her promoted product hahaha. Bit too obvious?

A delulu can dream, right?  

Or they probably got it wrong and wrote GWG's name.

 

https://m.weibo.cn/detail/4508270032629461

Fans and their amazing hearing: "RB's favorite drink" 

[MayanEcho]

1 hour ago, Gdragonlove said:

 

It is sad news for us but keeping low profile may be the best way for them at the moment until they feel it’s the right time. 

 

For the sake of their sanity and career, keeping their relationship low-key, if they are together, is their best course.

 

Unfortunately, crazy and ridiculous as some fans sound, they are also organized enough to attack anyone whom they think is "going against" how they wanted things are for their idol. One group dukes it out with a rival idol's fans. The other group will make sure the posts of their idol gets huge likes and comments; hence, work like "bots". Still another group, dubbed "terminators", will complain, harass, even send demanding malicious letters to the companies of products endorsed by just about anyone who earned their ire/dislike/hate. 

 

[Jandj]

is it me or even the seating plan lol ...... he never sits with another female close other than Reba 

 

 

 

 

[水蜜桃]

4 hours ago, Babyval said:

I’d like to add that variety shows such as HC are scripted. So it’s a given that KX knows what questions the MC at HC will pose to V. 
 

It takes some simple acting skills to pull off and all participants, already know the part they have to play. 
 

There is also some room for editing too. some bloopers are downright funny. But complete f- ups are edited. So actually, what we see, on HC last night, had already been cut and polished. 

As such, let us remember that V’s mission to HC is to promote ELOD this time. So in a way, it’s some sort of publicity for ELOD, as well as, well, just the right amount of tickling to get some attention. 
 
Testing the water, is also a good way of looking at it. 

 

i wouldn't say "scripted" like the people are given scripts and lines to memorize, but there are directors and a general direction the show goes. it comes down to the degree at which it is "scripted". they do general run downs with general questions and "tests" of the games-  and lwj would have definitely told gwg about those questions beforehand. 

 

it's not really the "revealing or not revealing himself". lwj asked those questions, and we know for sure that these questions were previously agreed. "高伟光情商" (gwg eq) was trending on weibo when kb aired. this topic and the relation between gwg & rb would have been discussed. it is most definitely "testing the waters". it's very new. they didn't 炒cp, even when pillowbook & peach blossoms dongfeng was at its most popular. 

 

i disagree with stealing the thunder from gwg. gwg is still very far from doing anything international, at best he's a B-list actor. i say this as a fan of him. rb is "女顶流“， she is at the top of the "influence" celebrities, she is known across the country. 

 

sexism is getting better from both sides in china (see ex. papi酱 & luo zhixiang) and only a true problem in the countryside,  and it is not the stem of this contract problem. the other jx actors have the same contract as gwg, it is only rb's whose is longer than everyone else's. she  signed a longer contract. He, 99% likely, does not have a modeling contract anymore. His modeling days are long over. 

 

timing is most definitely a factor, which is why i don't think they'll make it public for another year, we have until rb is 30. 

 

the best thing for their careers would be to leave jx, especially for rb. rb is still under contract, while gwg is simply "working alongside" jx (see interview w/ liu ruilin where he is asked "any future possibilities of working together? [w/ gwg]" and he asks gwg "will there be?") gr weibo community theorizes that he's waiting for rb to be done w her contract so they can leave together (all speculation).

 

however, jx's recent actions make this all very suspicious. 

[Brianna2020]

The actions of JX and HC are suspicious. Also, R and V have been dropping a lot of hints and they know what the reactions will be. They have always thought carefully about how things are perceived. 

[KliraPhegon]

8 hours ago, triplesung said:

Because I am having severe withdrawals from this CP, let's bring this back. I mean, how much more obvious can they get 

In the video, if u watch closely, u can see that initially V n R aimed for each other’s hands, only after V remembered to slide further and support her elbow 

[triplesung]

2 hours ago, 水蜜桃 said:

"高伟光情商" (gwg eq)

I have read before what this means but I forgot. Can somebody tell me?

 

I think we need a abbreviation list here again because there are too many and I can't remember all of them 

[triplesung]

4 minutes ago, KliraPhegon said:

In the video, if u watch closely, u can see that initially V n R aimed for each other’s hands, only after V remembered to slide further and support her elbow 

Not to mention, they still continued their conversation. There must be a lot of things they want to say to each other.

[Tracy_1506]

1 hour ago, 水蜜桃 said:

i wouldn't say "scripted" like the people are given scripts and lines to memorize, but there are directors and a general direction the show goes. it comes down to the degree at which it is "scripted". they do general run downs with general questions and "tests" of the games-  and lwj would have definitely told gwg about those questions beforehand. 

 

it's not really the "revealing or not revealing himself". lwj asked those questions, and we know for sure that these questions were previously agreed. "高伟光情商" (gwg eq) was trending on weibo when kb aired. this topic and the relation between gwg & rb would have been discussed. it is most definitely "testing the waters". it's very new. they didn't 炒cp, even when pillowbook & peach blossoms dongfeng was at its most popular. 

 

i disagree with stealing the thunder from gwg. gwg is still very far from doing anything international, at best he's a B-list actor. i say this as a fan of him. rb is "女顶流“， she is at the top of the "influence" celebrities, she is known across the country. 

 

sexism is getting better from both sides in china (see ex. papi酱 & luo zhixiang) and only a true problem in the countryside,  and it is not the stem of this contract problem. the other jx actors have the same contract as gwg, it is only rb's whose is longer than everyone else's. she  signed a longer contract. He, 99% likely, does not have a modeling contract anymore. His modeling days are long over. 

 

timing is most definitely a factor, which is why i don't think they'll make it public for another year, we have until rb is 30. 

 

the best thing for their careers would be to leave jx, especially for rb. rb is still under contract, while gwg is simply "working alongside" jx (see interview w/ liu ruilin where he is asked "any future possibilities of working together? [w/ gwg]" and he asks gwg "will there be?") gr weibo community theorizes that he's waiting for rb to be done w her contract so they can leave together (all speculation).

 

however, jx's recent actions make this all very suspicious. 

I agree Jx actions are very suspicious.

on 5/20 V posted wb and cp fan yy that numbers for R but jx uploaded video showing jx staff gave that numbers for V to solve. I dont understand why jx is okay for HC host to ask V those questions which make people think they want to test water but their actions on 5/20 was like splash cold water to cp fan.

some people said that V appeared on HC to gain heat and help ratings. I dont really know what kb and jx intentions are. At first i thought they may want to test water for GR but given their sitatations, it did not make sense.

btw, i watched 2 bts of R ‘s current drama. It seems ML wwant to associate or attach to her. R is still cold and keep distant, she even put a pillow inside her coat when they practiced intimacy scenes. I hope ML dont fry cp this time again.

 

[guguthecat]

Page is moving so fast... so many good points too. 

 

For me, either his HC question was scripted or not, it doesn't matter. The point is V accepted it, meaning HC, V and maybe R already knew the consequence.

Whether he answers it or not, its his choice and I think he made the right decision not to mention R.

The question is the important hint here... There will be no smoke if there is no fire. Come on GR... everyone already knew their secret but noone dare to confirm except these two speak up. They would not 'tease' R but they can 'tease' V... Lets say, they are just testing the water and testing us! 

Simple question with a simple answer! Why did V struggling to answer it? Can you see how overprotective he is to R? 

If he answered R in the first place, he had to admit he 'like' her and GX probably will come this year but their careers will be at stake. So he chose 'Yang Mi' and 'Jiang Xin'... which is 'nothing' more than just colleague boss and friend to him. 

If he answered R in the end after so many question attempts, it will look like there is nothing between him and R. People will think he answer her just because he was pushed. 

OFC, there is 'something' between them... GRSZD  thats why he struggling...

In order to protect R... protect himself and their relationship the best way is playing 'you will not get anything from me because the truth is only ours'

This is only in my point of view, I could be wrong...

The ship is continue sailing... smoothly but slow. As long as they are happy, we are happy. Right? 

Lets chill and just enjoy the dog food they give us. 

 

For the newcomers... welcome on board but please don't ship this CP if your heart made of glass... we can't help you everytime your glass breaks... my advice: read as much as you can from the previous pages then you will understand our CP's history and foundation... 

 

Goodnight all 

[Eery2]

May be they'll give little hints here and there so that people will realise that they are together without announcing anything. And when they GX people will just say 'oh', not surprised

[Karma29]

V and his sweetness. So happy that atleast he knows overseas Donuts keep on supporting him. 

 

[dongfenggun86]

Morning friend...

I read so many post from newcomer that ship gg & mm. I really happy they gain more fans, however they still confuse about them. To ship people, you need a lot of patient and trust. If there a bad rumor about them, don't just sad and blindly trust them. Follow your heart and wait for the comfirmation.

For me, they a lot of couple i ship and the longer one was from ten year ago. Eventhough it were crushed, i still happy for them.

But, based on our gg and mm, trust me when i said they were different from other shipper couple. 

I will continue to support them and loved them for eternal. As long they happy, i will cheer on them. 

[ChibiLy]

2 hours ago, Tracy_1506 said:

I agree Jx actions are very suspicious.

on 5/20 V posted wb and cp fan yy that numbers for R but jx uploaded video showing jx staff gave that numbers for V to solve. I dont understand why jx is okay for HC host to ask V those questions which make people think they want to test water but their actions on 5/20 was like splash cold water to cp fan.

some people said that V appeared on HC to gain heat and help ratings. I dont really know what kb and jx intentions are. At first i thought they may want to test water for GR but given their sitatations, it did not make sense.

btw, i watched 2 bts of R ‘s current drama. It seems ML wwant to associate or attach to her. R is still cold and keep distant, she even put a pillow inside her coat when they practiced intimacy scenes. I hope ML dont fry cp this time again.

 

Wow...the pillow inside her coat is taking it to another level. She must be super cautious of the ML.

[Gdragonlove]

1 hour ago, ChibiLy said:

Wow...the pillow inside her coat is taking it to another level. She must be super cautious of the ML.

 

sorry i didn’t watch R new show. what does pillow inside her coat mean? why put pillow inside her coat?

[水蜜桃]

2 hours ago, triplesung said:

I have read before what this means but I forgot. Can somebody tell me?

 

I think we need a abbreviation list here again because there are too many and I can't remember all of them 

高伟光情商 - gwg eq- gao weiguang emotional quotient/intelligence 

you know how there's an iq? an eq is the emotional intelligence of yourself 

 

common for weibo: 

names: 

gg- 哥哥(gege) (brother) = gao weiguang

mm- 妹妹(meimei) (younger sister) = dilireba

gs- 光叔 （guangshu)= uncle guang

rb- 热巴 (reba) 

dlrb- 迪丽热巴 （dilireba) 

dj- 帝君-dijun 

dh- 东华 donghua

fj- 凤九 fengjiu

jh- 姬衡 （jiheng) OR 结婚 （jiehun- get married) 

gr- 光热- guangre

ttq- 甜甜圈- donut circle (gwg fanbase name) 

als- 爱丽丝- alices (rb's fans name) 

wf- 唯粉- fans of only one party

dw- 毒唯- toxic fans of only one party

xwb- 小尾巴- xiao weiba- little tails (name of guangre fans) 

 

more names: 

二房 （erfang), zyl- zhang yunlong

2bb, zbb, bb- zhang binbin

dmm, ym (大幂幂， 杨幂)- yang mi 

jn- 杰娜 - jiena couple (zhang jie x xie na) 

jy- 晋嫣- jinyan couple (luo jin x tang yan)

ls- 隆诗- longshi couple (wu qilong x liu shishi) 

llhh- 李莉华华- lilihuahua (rb's dw fans like to say she's gwg's girlfriend, but it's not true) 

yyy- 杨吟吟- yang yinyin (confirmed ex gf of gwg's) 

lrl- 刘芮麟- liu ruilin  (yan chiwu, 16th in peach blossoms) 

ly- 赖艺- lai yi (oldest disciple of mo yuan's in peach blossoms) 

hmy- 黄梦莹- huang mengying  (sujin in peach blossoms)

jx- usually 嘉行 （jiaxing= jaywalk studios) OR 蒋欣 （jiang xin, female lead in gwg's drama living towards the sun) 

hjy, [whale emoji], whale boy (used only by me  )- huang jingyu (male lead in rb's drama love advanced customization) 

wl, 三石 （three rocks), 30- wu lei (male lead in rb's drama changge xing (长歌行) (princess changge) ) 

dl- 邓论- deng lun (male lead in rb's drama sweet dreams (1001) ) 

hgn, xzl- 红姑娘，辛芷蕾- xin zhilei （technically we never use xzl, she's only known as hgn)  ( love interest of gwg's character in candle in the tomb) 

myl- 马伊利- ma yili (female lead in gwg's drama miss s）

lh- 鹿晗- lu han (shipped w/ rb in running man in 2017)

yz- 杨紫- yang zi (her fandom has a bit of a rivalry w/ als) 

hls- 何老师- teacher he (he jiong) (mc of happy camp) 

lwj- 李维嘉- li weijia (mc of happy camp) 

...more names: 

4s, slth (三生三世十里桃花) (EL- used in english forums)- three lives, three worlds, ten miles of peach blossoms (i usually use the abbreviation peach blossoms here) , eternal love

6s, zss, 小破书/小金书 (little broken book, little golden book) (ELOD- used in english forums)- three lives, three worlds, the pillowbook,  eternal love of dream

xyes- 向阳而生- living toward the sun (gwg's drama w/ jiang xin) 

wsd- 微时代- v love (gwg x dlrb first drama working together) 

bscq- 班淑传奇- legend of banshu (gwg & dlrb both star in drama) 

ljz, qslr- 秦时丽人明月心/丽姬传- the king's woman (rb's drama w/ zhang binbin) 

as- 爱思小姐探案集- miss s (gwg's drama w/ ma yili) 

gd- 爱情高级定制- love advanced customization (this list is slightly older, now that the chinese name for this drama has changed, idk the new abbreviation) 

1001- 一千零一夜- sweet dreams (rb's drama w/ deng lun) 

nqxx- 鬼吹灯之怒晴湘西- candle in the tomb: the wrath of time (gwg stars in this drama) 

llmk- 鬼吹灯之龙岭迷窟- candle in the tomb: the lost caverns (gwg stars in this drama) 

jxtz, jt- 极限挑战- go fighting! (rb's variety show) 

 

related vocab: 

gb- (官博) official weibo (of the drama, of tv stations, etc) 

gd- (官抖）official douyin (of the drama, of tv stations, etc) 

dy- (抖音) douyin-/tik tok

hyh- 后援会- a group made of fans for promoting their idol

wb- 微博- weibo (chinese instagram/twitter) 

tb- 贴吧- tieba (chinese type of reddit) 

老福特 LOFTER- chinese tumblr

zb- 资本- capital assets

lz- 绿洲- lv zhou- chinese instagram)

ch- 超话- chao huo- super topic (community) (i usually describe this with gr weibo community) 

b站- b zhan- bilibili (chinese youtube (sort of) ) 

 

often used abbreviations: 

szd, grszd- 是真的，光热是真的- is real, guangre is real

cp/夫妇- couple /character pairing

zqsg- 真情实感- real feelings, true opinion

u1s1/yysy- have 1, say 1 (having a thought and spitting it out) 

srds- 虽然但是- even though, but

nsdd- 你说得对- you are right

kdl- 磕到了- ...how am i supposed to translate this?? i'll give some context. in the united states, when people are watching something entertaining, they eat popcorn. in china (popcorn exists but it is relatively modern) when just talking/watching something entertaining, they will use their teeth to crack open sunflower seeds. the verb "磕“ is to crack open. usually, this is used/said when somebody shares an evidence of the ship and if the people acknowledge the evidence and deem it to be true, they will say "磕到了". 

blx- 玻璃心- glass hearts

bx- 避嫌- avoid arousing suspicion (taken from google translate bc i have nothing better) 

kb- 快本- happy camp

ylq- 娱乐圈- entertainment circle (chinese entertainment industry) 

cpn- cp脑- thinking that every little thing the celebrity does relates to your shipping of them (we have slightly less of this because we have so much real evidence, but some other cp fandoms like to point out similar clothing during outings and calling them "情侣装" (couples clothes/matching clothes for couples) when they have literally never interacted ever) 

yy- 意淫- making stuff up