[Mainland Chinese Drama 2017] The King’s Woman 泰时丽人明月心

[tintin92]

well just covered the whole episodes for this week  i feel a little behind though.everyone of you guys watch the drama without subs or you are actually fluent in mandarin?  

This Drama is coming to an end. as we all know the story got draggy and had so many ups and downs. i recommended this drama to two of my friends and they left it halfway. why? because they expected a romantic palace drama with other things. romance in this drama was full of bumps and misunderstandings. i love both leads and the story was fine to me. but if you are familiar with historical chinese dramas , you know that they have good starts and they screw the endings ( i say this after watching 4 historical dramas this year ).

one thing i wanted to ask is do you guys believe in YZ and Li Ji's romance? 

some say the romance was poisonous. first it was by force then so many misunderstandings happened and most importantly lack of trust between the leads. but i personally think that they really loved each other they weren't meant to be from the beginning. Li er was not built for palace life and YZ's personality and kingdom made him who he was  

 

 

@january1234 i know how you feel right now. but you know what? that's the way chinese dramas fail all the time! The drama usually has a great potential and a great story BUT the directors and writers don't know how to do their job and usually screw the story. it's not new for me after watching historical chinese dramas.

[fellice]

2 hours ago, dramalover1 said:

She could choose to protect her idiotic senior JK. 

Let's hope it won't happen..

2 hours ago, tintin92 said:

well just covered the whole episodes for this week  i feel a little behind though.everyone of you guys watch the drama without subs or you are actually fluent in mandarin?  

This Drama is coming to an end. as we all know the story got draggy and had so many ups and downs. i recommended this drama to two of my friends and they left it halfway. why? because they expected a romantic palace drama with other things. romance in this drama was full of bumps and misunderstandings. i love both leads and the story was fine to me. but if you are familiar with historical chinese dramas , you know that they have good starts and they screw the endings ( i say this after watching 4 historical dramas this year ).

one thing i wanted to ask is do you guys believe in YZ and Li Ji's romance? 

some say the romance was poisonous. first it was by force then so many misunderstandings happened and most importantly lack of trust between the leads. but i personally think that they really loved each other they weren't meant to be from the beginning. Li er was not built for palace life and YZ's personality and kingdom made him who he was  

 

Beside all of their misunderstanding in this drama, I trully believe they love each other. I thought YZ and Lier show me enough proof of their love especially on this week episode where Lier already made her decision to choose YZ. This drama is actually about The King's Woman which must be about Lier. But in fact we got to know a lot more about YZ and his family background meanwhile from Lier's story, we didn't get many coverage about her family from the writer or maybe the annoying character like Jingke covered up the potential of Lier story (idk how to write it in better word) so I think we understood YZ perspective more and feeling sorry for him bcs his ruined childhood (not to mention ZBB wonderful acting made us love YZ character more). I think we should be thankful that Lier finally accepted the king's love. Lier got her parents and her grandfather killed by Qin state so it must be hard for her to accept YZ as her king and as her true love. Also how many times Lier saved YZ, without her maybe YZ would have been died or injured. Whatever Lier did for the king, I don't think YZ can fully trust Lier. He would not trust her again if she did something unsatisfying and it will be happen again and again. They weren't meant to be from the beginning.

 

In my opinion, the writing of this drama got lost during the middle episodes (maybe around episode 25 onwards about Yandan escape). Their writing became inconsistent and me too feeling the excitement to watch this drama is gone and want to finish it only bcs of ZBB n DD chemistry. I'm just disappointed why the writer can't bring this drama to its full potential. All of the actor and the actress are doing well in this drama (except Jingke which gave us very poor performance) so I don't have much complain since I don't have high expectation. 6 more episodes to go. I will enjoy all of YZ and Lier moments as I could and also I hope they can serve us a good ending.

 

PS: They should have not release the preview for the ending. It ruined people's expectation.

[rosamundekingsley99_stv]

Thanks for the previews - preview to episode 45 does not make any sense when you compare it to the trailers and the final image in the closing credits... I don't that Li'er will end up trying to kill YZ.  I suspect that she fakes in order to save him and dies - at least, that is the sense that I got from watching the trailers and in the closing credits, YZ holds her limp body as he weeps copiously and I doubt that he would weep copiously unless she died trying to save him and that is when he realizes that she truly loved him and that he had been foolish to doubt her.

 

Cdramas often offer up a twisted happy/sad/bittersweet ending.  Hence all the songs about reincarnation and waiting a thousand years to meet again.

 

The very things that cause YZ to love Li'er are also the very things that make it impossible for her to be able to thrive in the palace.  

 

But if the writing is as sloppy as it has been for the last 10 or so episodes, then the last 6 will probably be a rush.  And I do not think that it will be the ending that preview 45 seems to hint at.

 

If anything has been consistent, it is that YZ's suspicious nature always gets the better of him - he will be alone - he will always be alone not only because is he is the emperor of Qin but because life and circumstance have made him suspicious of everyone.  That principle and that characteristic fundamentally will not change - he will be forced always to give up whom he loves because of it and he knows that.  He admits to much in one episode.

 

DD's acting has been atrocious the last 10 episodes - the writing is bad but DD is incapable of more than 3 expressions and she does not seem to be able to project the conflicting emotions within her.  Even when she declares that she loves YZ to Qing, DD is not able to project the confused pain, horror and frustration about always being suspected or even regret that she has  come to love him.  And the miscarriage should have been played out more.

 

In the previews, YZ seems to be testing Li'er and everyone else.

 

I deliberately do not call YZ "king" because at this end of the day, somehow this drama has become about YZ and not Li'er. That is a testament to ZBB's acting - he can super silly in the behind the scenes video but then collect all his projection powers and make us believe the pain and turmoil of being King, of being YZ, of sometimes not being able to pick being YZ because of the enormous responsibilities that he carries.

 

Whatever the case, the music has been exquisite and YZ is amazing.

 

If Jing Ker was like this in real life, I am not sure why he was celebrated throughout history.  Also, every time I look at the actor playing Jing Ker, all I can think of are runways and Calvin Klein models - his lips do not really move.

 

 

[marimari00]

What in tarnation is Episode 45???  I know Kdramas can have makjang (crazy) plot twists but what was that? Should I spare myself the grief? I've tolerated the angst up to know because of ZBB-DD chemistry and as long as I can justify the story but I'm finding it hard to follow now that the story seem to cool off  the romantic tension between Li and YZ (save for ro 37) and now gearing up for Li to become the master betrayer of them all. Why did she bother returning to the palace in the first place? Just needing to vent but I'm holding out hope that the writers won't make the ending that twisted and irrational 

[rosamundekingsley99_stv]

1 hour ago, fellice said:

Let's hope it won't happen..

 

Beside all of their misunderstanding in this drama, I trully believe they love each other. I thought YZ and Lier show me enough proof of their love especially on this week episode where Lier already made her decision to choose YZ. This drama is actually about The King's Woman which must be about Lier. But in fact we got to know a lot more about YZ and his family background meanwhile from Lier's story, we didn't get many coverage about her family from the writer or maybe the annoying character like Jingke covered up the potential of Lier story (idk how to write it in better word) so I think we understood YZ perspective more and feeling sorry for him bcs his ruined childhood (not to mention ZBB wonderful acting made us love YZ character more). I think we should be thankful that Lier finally accepted the king's love. Lier got her parents and her grandfather killed by Qin state so it must be hard for her to accept YZ as her king and as her true love. Also how many times Lier saved YZ, without her maybe YZ would have been died or injured. Whatever Lier did for the king, I don't think YZ can fully trust Lier. He would not trust her again if she did something unsatisfying and it will be happen again and again. They weren't meant to be from the beginning.

 

In my opinion, the writing of this drama got lost during the middle episodes (maybe around episode 25 onwards about Yandan escape). Their writing became inconsistent and me too feeling the excitement to watch this drama is gone and want to finish it only bcs of ZBB n DD chemistry. I'm just disappointed why the writer can't bring this drama to its full potential. All of the actor and the actress are doing well in this drama (except Jingke which gave us very poor performance) so I don't have much complain since I don't have high expectation. 6 more episodes to go. I will enjoy all of YZ and Lier moments as I could and also I hope they can serve us a good ending.

 

PS: They should have not release the preview for the ending. It ruined people's expectation.

@fellice great insights and agree with you on bolded.  Most Asian dramas focus on what is not meant to be no matter how much you want it... YZ and Li-er are an example of that.  And I would hold off on the predicting the ending - the previews generally have been just that previews - they want us to get all angry and then we will be sorely disappointed.

[fellice]

32 minutes ago, rosamundekingsley99_stv said:

Thanks for the previews - preview to episode 45 does not make any sense when you compare it to the trailers and the final image in the closing credits... I don't that Li'er will end up trying to kill YZ.  I suspect that she fakes in order to save him and dies - at least, that is the sense that I got from watching the trailers and in the closing credits, YZ holds her limp body as he weeps copiously and I doubt that he would weep copiously unless she died trying to save him and that is when he realizes that she truly loved him and that he had been foolish to doubt her.

 

Cdramas often offer up a twisted happy/sad/bittersweet ending.  Hence all the songs about reincarnation and waiting a thousand years to meet again.

 

The very things that cause YZ to love Li'er are also the very things that make it impossible for her to be able to thrive in the palace.  

 

But if the writing is as sloppy as it has been for the last 10 or so episodes, then the last 6 will probably be a rush.  And I do not think that it will be the ending that preview 45 seems to hint at.

 

If anything has been consistent, it is that YZ's suspicious nature always gets the better of him - he will be alone - he will always be alone not only because is he is the emperor of Qin but because life and circumstance have made him suspicious of everyone.  That principle and that characteristic fundamentally will not change - he will be forced always to give up whom he loves because of it and he knows that.  He admits to much in one episode.

 

DD's acting has been atrocious the last 10 episodes - the writing is bad but DD is incapable of more than 3 expressions and she does not seem to be able to project the conflicting emotions within her.  Even when she declares that she loves YZ to Qing, DD is not able to project the confused pain, horror and frustration about always being suspected or even regret that she has  come to love him.  And the miscarriage should have been played out more.

 

In the previews, YZ seems to be testing Li'er and everyone else.

 

I deliberately do not call YZ "king" because at this end of the day, somehow this drama has become about YZ and not Li'er. That is a testament to ZBB's acting - he can super silly in the behind the scenes video but then collect all his projection powers and make us believe the pain and turmoil of being King, of being YZ, of sometimes not being able to pick being YZ because of the enormous responsibilities that he carries.

 

Whatever the case, the music has been exquisite and YZ is amazing.

 

If Jing Ker was like this in real life, I am not sure why he was celebrated throughout history.  Also, every time I look at the actor playing Jing Ker, all I can think of are runways and Calvin Klein models - his lips do not really move.

 

 

I agree with miscarriage should have been played out more. I feel like the miscarriage was cut short abruptly and that's it. We moved to the next problem. It seems like the writer just gave us more tragic story between YZ and Lier and didn't even go further to the detail bcs they're in a rush on the latest episode (If only they cut Jingke's unimportant scenes) 

 

I'm amazed how ZBB can make this drama into his story. He got that screen presence which made the viewers focused on watching him and that's impressive. I hope he could hit it big on his next projects bcs he deserve it. And about DD's acting, there's definitely lack of expressions on her acting. Idk if it's because the writer or bcs DD inability to show multiple range of expression. I just hope she could be better and improve her acting. I know she got the potential. The writing of this drama didn't even help her. 

 

36 minutes ago, rosamundekingsley99_stv said:

@fellice great insights and agree with you on bolded.  Most Asian dramas focus on what is not meant to be no matter how much you want it... YZ and Li-er are an example of that.  And I would hold off on the predicting the ending - the previews generally have been just that previews - they want us to get all angry and then we will be sorely disappointed.

 

Yes I think a preview can be misleading. If it's 48 episodes I don't think it will end that way since it's the preview for episode 45. But let's see, I just hope we can get something sweet after all of their tragic story

[dramalover1]

The more I watch, the more I'm convinced Li was miscast because as great as ZBB + DD chemistry is, DD just can't carry her role convincingly on her own. In every scene where the couple's together, my eyes are drawn to the guy, not to the girl. When it's her and JK, my eyes are drawn to her (b/c JK has ZERO presence). Her and Han = about the same with Han getting a tad more weight because he is a one-note character and the actor's good at playing that one note. 

 

I really hope they stop casting DD in main heroine roles until her acting improves. It's totally min-pae to her co-star / main love interest.

 

And I think it's crazy how YZ is trying to make TM his heir when he's not his own child. I guess that shows how much he loves Li b/c he wants to make sure she won't be without influence after his death. 

 

AND WHY DID HS COME BACK JUST TO TELL LI'ER JK'S COMING!!!! What was the point?????

[dramalover1]

1 hour ago, rosamundekingsley99_stv said:

Thanks for the previews - preview to episode 45 does not make any sense when you compare it to the trailers and the final image in the closing credits... I don't that Li'er will end up trying to kill YZ.  I suspect that she fakes in order to save him and dies - at least, that is the sense that I got from watching the trailers and in the closing credits, YZ holds her limp body as he weeps copiously and I doubt that he would weep copiously unless she died trying to save him and that is when he realizes that she truly loved him and that he had been foolish to doubt her.

 

Cdramas often offer up a twisted happy/sad/bittersweet ending.  Hence all the songs about reincarnation and waiting a thousand years to meet again.

 

The very things that cause YZ to love Li'er are also the very things that make it impossible for her to be able to thrive in the palace.  

 

But if the writing is as sloppy as it has been for the last 10 or so episodes, then the last 6 will probably be a rush.  And I do not think that it will be the ending that preview 45 seems to hint at.

 

If Jing Ker was like this in real life, I am not sure why he was celebrated throughout history.  Also, every time I look at the actor playing Jing Ker, all I can think of are runways and Calvin Klein models - his lips do not really move.

 

 

 

Yes. Too bad if they do reincarnate and meet again, they're going to have another goguma life and die horribly and have to wait another 1k years to try again...only to fail. Grr...

 

JK was a drunk in real life too. His only claim to fame is failing to assassinate YZ. 

[rosamundekingsley99_stv]

28 minutes ago, dramalover1 said:

The more I watch, the more I'm convinced Li was miscast because as great as ZBB + DD chemistry is, DD just can't carry her role convincingly on her own. In every scene where the couple's together, my eyes are drawn to the guy, not to the girl. When it's her and JK, my eyes are drawn to her (b/c JK has ZERO presence). Her and Han = about the same with Han getting a tad more weight because he is a one-note character and the actor's good at playing that one note. 

 

I really hope they stop casting DD in main heroine roles until her acting improves. It's totally min-pae to her co-star / main love interest.

 

And I think it's crazy how YZ is trying to make TM his heir when he's not his own child. I guess that shows how much he loves Li b/c he wants to make sure she won't be without influence after his death. 

 

AND WHY DID HS COME BACK JUST TO TELL LI'ER JK'S COMING!!!! What was the point?????

@dramalover1  First, thank you so much for all your insights and straight talk!

 

On the bolded point, I wonder if YZ is trying to test Li-er rather than this being a straight benevolent shot.  He loves her but he does not trust her (although he respects her).  And making TM his heir is not that strange when you consider that this drama is built upon the premise that YZ is really Lu's child and not the prior king's (even historically this would be incorrect).

 

And at this point, I do not know what the Han Shen character is supposed to represent?  It seems like he has decided to be the truthsayer to both JK and Li-er which I really do not get.  And I think that in this drama, Han Shen seems to die at least from what I can tell in the closing credits, which does not really set us up for The Legend of Qin.

[rosamundekingsley99_stv]

There is this one point in the trailer (and I am reading English subtitles) where Li-er's voice says "You can't kill him.  He is the father of my child" and in the background YZ's crown beads are being sliced off - is the "father" YZ or JK?

 

I don't know if the writers even intended this - I doubt it given the primary storylines are so muddled - but swimming right underneath the currents, there is a hint about parenting.  It seems that biological parents are not always the best and that in fact, sometimes the parent that you know as your biological and who raised you may be better.  In TM's case, YZ is a much better father than JK could ever be, and I almost wonder if subconsciously Li-er realized this and returned to the palace in episode 17 or so.  Again not intended but what is hinted at.

 

YZ's relationship with Lu (terrible and constantly wondering), YZ's relationship with his mother (wondering, terrible but resolved at her death but only really because she was dying).

 

And YZ's dialogue with TM on his lap was quite telling too - that there is no "carefree" when you are in charge, something TM does not quite understand.  And even when Li-er was being tortured for the Yan Dan escape, YZ made sure to take care of TM if nothing else.

[dramalover1]

3 minutes ago, rosamundekingsley99_stv said:

@dramalover1  First, thank you so much for all your insights and straight talk!

 

On the bolded point, I wonder if YZ is trying to test Li-er rather than this being a straight benevolent shot.  He loves her but he does not trust her (although he respects her).  And making TM his heir is not that strange when you consider that this drama is built upon the premise that YZ is really Lu's child and not the prior king's (even historically this would be incorrect).

 

And at this point, I do not know what the Han Shen character is supposed to represent?  It seems like he has decided to be the truthsayer to both JK and Li-er which I really do not get.  And I think that in this drama, Han Shen seems to die at least from what I can tell in the closing credits, which does not really set us up for The Legend of Qin.

 

I actually don't know if that's true because it looks like Madam Chu and Prime Minister are making moves when they hear about Tianming becoming the Crown Prince. In reality, YZ makes Fusu the crown prince (the oldest prince), so I don't know if it's another pointless  plot device drama writers are using to force another goguma scenario (I really hope not, but who knows????) But in another scene, YZ said he loves Li and wants to share the world with her but she doesn't get it. So it could be that making Tianming his successor is a way for him to share the world w/ her and expressing his love. Consorts and concubines had pretty crappy lives after the emperor they served died because they generally didn't have much. And it isn't like Li is a princess with doting parents she could go back to. She's an orphan b/c Qin killed her family. 

 

I also did not understand why HS lingered and started to interfere with JK and Li after leaving the palace. It would've been better if he'd told Li he's going to XYZ town and if YZ can't protect her anymore or she needs an ally, she can call on him.

 

I'm pretty sure HS dies based on the ending credit footage. I haven't seen The Legend of Qin, so I can't comment on whether or not it makes any sense.

 

4 hours ago, tintin92 said:

well just covered the whole episodes for this week  i feel a little behind though.everyone of you guys watch the drama without subs or you are actually fluent in mandarin?  

This Drama is coming to an end. as we all know the story got draggy and had so many ups and downs. i recommended this drama to two of my friends and they left it halfway. why? because they expected a romantic palace drama with other things. romance in this drama was full of bumps and misunderstandings. i love both leads and the story was fine to me. but if you are familiar with historical chinese dramas , you know that they have good starts and they screw the endings ( i say this after watching 4 historical dramas this year ).

one thing i wanted to ask is do you guys believe in YZ and Li Ji's romance? 

some say the romance was poisonous. first it was by force then so many misunderstandings happened and most importantly lack of trust between the leads. but i personally think that they really loved each other they weren't meant to be from the beginning. Li er was not built for palace life and YZ's personality and kingdom made him who he was  

 

@january1234 i know how you feel right now. but you know what? that's the way chinese dramas fail all the time! The drama usually has a great potential and a great story BUT the directors and writers don't know how to do their job and usually screw the story. it's not new for me after watching historical chinese dramas.

 

I watch both raw and sub. I get about 10-15% of what they're saying in Chinese, but not that much more. I either wait for Eng sub or Korean sub. I noticed that Korean fan subs are generally better than Eng fan sub or DramaFever. I don't need subs for K-dramas since I speak Korean natively and know a lot of complex court words from having watched way too many historicals.

 

I think most C-dramas (and K-dramas for that matter) fail from middle - ending because drama writers and directors don't seem to really study the story structure properly. They set up the opening without any thoughts to the theme (aka what life truth does this story trying to say?), transformative arcs for characters, transformative story arcs, major turning points (all stories need at least 3), pinch points (about 2-3, but most go for 2), climax and resolution. If you don't know those things and start writing the script, you end up with a very lopsided story. You can generally get away with this in a novel form (because novels are much more forgiving), but with movies and dramas, you have to much more precise about where you place those plot point, arcs and so on, on top of giving the viewers that the ending, whether sad or happy, is inevitable (and it wasn't due to characters being idiots and acting illogically). Otherwise the story feels draggy and the pacing feels off. (BTW - Pixar studio films are very good at this, like Finding Nemo, Monsters Inc and Up.)

13 minutes ago, rosamundekingsley99_stv said:

There is this one point in the trailer (and I am reading English subtitles) where Li-er's voice says "You can't kill him.  He is the father of my child" and in the background YZ's crown beads are being sliced off - is the "father" YZ or JK?

 

I don't know if the writers even intended this - I doubt it given the primary storylines are so muddled - but swimming right underneath the currents, there is a hint about parenting.  It seems that biological parents are not always the best and that in fact, sometimes the parent that you know as your biological and who raised you may be better.  In TM's case, YZ is a much better father than JK could ever be, and I almost wonder if subconsciously Li-er realized this and returned to the palace in episode 17 or so.  Again not intended but what is hinted at.

 

YZ's relationship with Lu (terrible and constantly wondering), YZ's relationship with his mother (wondering, terrible but resolved at her death but only really because she was dying).

 

And YZ's dialogue with TM on his lap was quite telling too - that there is no "carefree" when you are in charge, something TM does not quite understand.  And even when Li-er was being tortured for the Yan Dan escape, YZ made sure to take care of TM if nothing else.

 

Yeah. YZ is a better father. JK doesn't even work (and what money he has, he's spent it all on alcohol), so... I mean... JK is a total deadbeat. 

[haileyyooo]

1 hour ago, fellice said:

I agree with miscarriage should have been played out more. I feel like the miscarriage was cut short abruptly and that's it. We moved to the next problem. It seems like the writer just gave us more tragic story between YZ and Lier and didn't even go further to the detail bcs they're in a rush on the latest episode (If only they cut Jingke's unimportant scenes) 

 

I'm amazed how ZBB can make this drama into his story. He got that screen presence which made the viewers focused on watching him and that's impressive. I hope he could hit it big on his next projects bcs he deserve it. And about DD's acting, there's definitely lack of expressions on her acting. Idk if it's because the writer or bcs DD inability to show multiple range of expression. I just hope she could be better and improve her acting. I know she got the potential. The writing of this drama didn't even help her. 

 

 

Yes I think a preview can be misleading. If it's 48 episodes I don't think it will end that way since it's the preview for episode 45. But let's see, I just hope we can get something sweet after all of their tragic story

If the preview in ep 45 JK going to assasinates YZ then JK will die (IMHO) and still 3 episodes left Im pretty sure those 3 ep will remain happy ending (as I seen BTS video YZ & GSL playing together with 3 children)

[dramalover1]

4 minutes ago, haileyyooo said:

If the preview in ep 45 JK going to assasinates YZ then JK will die (IMHO) and still 3 episodes left Im pretty sure those 3 ep will remain happy ending (as I seen BTS video YZ & GSL playing together with 3 children)

 

BTS videos don't really mean anything because they most often don't get inserted into the main drama.

[tintin92]

Has anyone here read the novel? is it sloppy and full of misunderstandings? 

well they failed at developing a good drama based on a novel ( and this is not new for historical CDramas  if you have seen princess agents, which was based on a novel also, the story was even worse)

Guess we have to wait and see how the finale goes. BTW they released previews until episode 45 and the drama has 48 episodes  How come?

 

[dramalover1]

10 minutes ago, tintin92 said:

Has anyone here read the novel? is it sloppy and full of misunderstandings? 

well they failed at developing a good drama based on a novel ( and this is not new for historical CDramas  if you have seen princess agents, which was based on a novel also, the story was even worse)

Guess we have to wait and see how the finale goes. BTW they released previews until episode 45 and the drama has 48 episodes  How come?

 

 

IIRC the novel's about JK and LI, rather than YZ being the main male lead. 

 

The only C-dramas that I thought were better than the books they're based on are:

 

Bu Bu Jing Xin

Eternal Love - 10 Miles of Peach Blossoms.

 

Eternal Love has a happy ending too, so it was just my thing. And every action is incredibly well-motivated and the male lead actor was perfect. ZBB and DD are in it too. 

[tintin92]

6 minutes ago, dramalover1 said:

 

IIRC the novel's about JK and LI, rather than YZ being the main male lead. 

 

The only C-dramas that I thought were better than the books they're based on are:

 

Bu Bu Jing Xin

Eternal Love - 10 Miles of Peach Blossoms.

 

Eternal Love has a happy ending too, so it was just my thing. And every action is incredibly well-motivated and the male lead actor was perfect. ZBB and DD are in it too. 

i have seen both bu bu jing xin and Eternal love. didn't read BBJX's novel but i read Eternal love and i liked both novel and drama  

you should add General and i too. i watched the drama then read the novel. it was quite good  

[dramalover1]

57 minutes ago, tintin92 said:

i have seen both bu bu jing xin and Eternal love. didn't read BBJX's novel but i read Eternal love and i liked both novel and drama  

you should add General and i too. i watched the drama then read the novel. it was quite good  

 

BBJX novel's pretty good. Eternal Love was good, but I thought Drama did a better job, esp. w/ Ye Hua. But I loved the epilogues in the novel.

 

I haven't read General and I or seen it. It's on my list tho. 

[ForgottenSoulx]

what are peoples thoughts on this drama ?? i just finished nirvana in fire.

[Latte_Anyday]

@tintin92 said:-

Quote

 

one thing i wanted to ask is do you guys believe in YZ and Li Ji's romance? 

some say the romance was poisonous. first it was by force then so many misunderstandings happened and most importantly lack of trust between the leads. but i personally think that they really loved each other they weren't meant to be from the beginning. Li er was not built for palace life and YZ's personality and kingdom made him who he was  

 

Well, firstly I'm no history buff and there's little to no mention as to whether this Lady Li is fact/fiction but I watched this Drama mainly for Dilraba/Bin2. I loved their chemistry in Pretty Li Huizhen which again Bin2 stole the show. I agree with the general opinion in this thread/forum that Li-Ying Zhen are similar to Romeo-Juliet in that they're doomed star-crossed lovers... I notice it's a trend among most C-Dramas for pairings with tragic endings maybe it's the culture i.e. a demographic interest in such ill-fated love perhaps? Or the viewers are a bunch of masochists pretty much like Li who keeps coming back to Ying Zheng despite his constant mistrust and always questioning her motives etc. Who knows LoL. But yea as you mentioned in your post Ying Zhen-Li are in a v.toxic relationship. She's too carefree for the decorum of palace living while Ying Zhen was born into royalty - one where he has to bear all the responsibilities that comes with bein' a King. 

[lavender2love]

@lavender2love

" It's generally true history is written by winners but is it true that YZ's history is written by his enemies ? That would impact the perception of the king and all his achievement s would be downgraded.It would be negative. What you wrote is interesting . The sensational will always precede the achievement.  "

 

On 9/26/2017 at 9:02 AM, dramalover1 said:

Yes. 

 

Because usually the 1st emperor's accomplishments and records aren't pulled together until 2nd, 3rd and 4th emperors.  Qin fell 4 years after YZ's death, so his records were pulled together and revised by Han Dynasty, which had every reason to portray YZ as being evil, so they could claim the mandate of Heaven to destroy Qin and establish Han. The rumor that YZ was really an illegitimate child of Lu Buwei was a Han invention because they wanted to undermined his legitimacy. 

 

(If you look at Asian historical records and royal/imperial annals, most record their kings and queens positively unless they were dethroned in rebellion, then they were recorded as tyrants. Yongzheng of Qing was almost tyrannical in his power and suppression of officials (he hated corruptions/bribery, frivolous spending, etc. He was notoriously stingy), having spies everywhere because he trusted no one, but he is judged well because his records are good. His son  Qianlong  is also favorably recorded although I find him frivolous and careless with funds and failed to continue his father's work to fight corruption within his government.

 

Spoiler

 

And Taejong of Joseon era (3rd king  & Sejong the Great's father)  killed his own brothers,  his in-laws (plus his sons' in-laws) and other officials and military guys who threatened his power (even if they'd helped him become the king), and yet, he is also written more or less favorably based on his reforms and concentration of power.)

 

YZ was a very smart guy, and he understood the critical importance of checks and balance, how to break up feudal lords to concentrate power (and bestow it unto him), etc.  (He also understood the critical importance of having unified currency, unified writing, unified measurements, and they were all standardized under his rule.) Han Dynasty followed his model of administration (ha!). When they didn't with military in the later period, the emperors started to get into trouble.  (YZ believed in having military power split among 3 officials, all with power to check each other. Later Han combined them into 1 official, which gave that person all the military power, not the emperor.)

 

YZ's biggest weakness IMHO is that he was inflexible and refused to revise really harsh laws. To Qin people, it didn't matter as much since they could use the existing merit system to reduce penalty from military service, etc. But to the people of other fallen kingdoms, it became a huge problem because they had no such merit, and they were punished very harshly for the same infractions. 

 

BTW - his refusal to revise and repeal harsh laws came from Han Fei and Li Si's philosophy that if you change laws too often, you create confusion, so it's better to establish them once and not change them. And since they were working fine under Qin, he saw no reason why he should change them after unification. 

 

And yes, he had some weird quirks like wanting to be immortal, but a lot of emperors and kings had weird quirks and habits, so I don't know if it matters that much. If you look at Korean history, even Sejong the Great (whose annals were recorded with utmost respect and reverence) had quirks -- like forcing his officials to come in early and work late regardless of their age and health, refusing to accept resignation from certain ministers (who were way way past the retirement age... we're talking people in their 60s and if you consider the lifespan...), looking the other way when Councilor Hwang Hee got into one corruption and sex/dirty scandal after another, demanding meat and other fatty food with every meal (despite the fact that he was obese and diabetic), being lazy with physical activities, gifting his queen with her own separate residence, and so on. 

 

Wow..... @dramalover1... this is more like a fine lecture . I did ask you once if you were a lecturer or an author. You should be being so learned. Thank you I really enjoy it and almost took down notes... haha. It's a pleasure to learn from you

 

HELP.... !! I'm so behind...4 pages lagging. I'm going to whirlwind through first and then come in again for seconds..

BUT on this page I fear .... !!! Oh dear.... !!

 

7 hours ago, january1234 said:

Well, the trailer above means that's the end for me.I wasn't realistically thinking of a happy ending for HER, but I thought the writers might have the sense to preserve the ONE thing in the series that really made it worthwhile -their relationship . Instead of which they seem to be throwing in the kitchen sink of every thing they could think about to get her center stage in a VERY tragic ending-possibly the WORST where they turn against each other, and ruin all the chemistry we loved between the leads.And if this means less of them as a couple, and more of her trying to act like the tragic heroine-possibly fellow assassin of the King she seems to be at present loving so much, then I am out.

 

 I'm sad too @january1234.... nay DEPRESSED. What are they thinking of... Kill the goose ( the great love of the King and Li'ER ) for the ghastly sensation ? I may throw in the towel too but like @dramalover1 said.... 6 episodes away after the loooonnnggg ride. I'll watch with  trepidation and scoot before the knife falls or the poison is on her lips. Just tread cautiously ...!!

 

 

7 hours ago, tintin92 said:

well just covered the whole episodes for this week  i feel a little behind though.everyone of you guys watch the drama without subs or you are actually fluent in mandarin?  

This Drama is coming to an end. as we all know the story got draggy and had so many ups and downs. i recommended this drama to two of my friends and they left it halfway. why? because they expected a romantic palace drama with other things. romance in this drama was full of bumps and misunderstandings. i love both leads and the story was fine to me. but if you are familiar with historical chinese dramas , you know that they have good starts and they screw the endings ( i say this after watching 4 historical dramas this year ).

one thing i wanted to ask is do you guys believe in YZ and Li Ji's romance? 

some say the romance was poisonous. first it was by force then so many misunderstandings happened and most importantly lack of trust between the leads. but i personally think that they really loved each other they weren't meant to be from the beginning. Li er was not built for palace life and YZ's personality and kingdom made him who he was  

 

 

@tintin92 " but i personally think that they really loved each other they weren't meant to be from the beginning."  

II agree but more  . I love that the development of love and trust for each other are in the palace. I actually love her character and can understand the King's deep love for here. I'll have a deeper discourse for another time if I'm still hanging around.

 

2 hours ago, haileyyooo said:

If the preview in ep 45 JK going to assasinates YZ then JK will die (IMHO) and still 3 episodes left Im pretty sure those 3 ep will remain happy ending (as I seen BTS video YZ & GSL playing together with 3 children)

 

I think PD and writer are trolling us BUT it would wonderful if that is the case. Can dreams come true ? Where is the magic wand ?

 

OOOPPPPSSS ..... just saw that dream go down the drain by @dramalover1 matter of fact comment.

 

" BTS videos don't really mean anything because they most often don't get inserted into the main drama. "

 

Okayyy... I'm  get off now to catch up. Thank you wonderful people for your posts, videos, lectures, opinions, images .....

 

I wish I can say Long live the King and long live the QUEEN. But it's a pipe dream. It'll never happen.