rosamundekingsley99_stv

@enigmatic_zephy because history proves true - you end up trusting TOO MUCH when you love and when you have to maintain the august quality of the throne and its institutional power, you cannot afford to love and trust TOO MUCH. We don't need LCY and XF to tell us that - just look at Roman history and Chinese history. @nuttyz but all this subtlety is purposeful in power dynamics - that is one of the most successful ways to flesh out your enemies - each person will interpret to his/her own advantage and purpose.

@nuttyz But you can't help becoming you are based on the environment that you are in, and in a strange sense, he has suffered the same ending as his father. @gsmith you hit the nail on the head - and I have highlighted that portion (thanks @USAFarmgirl!) - yes, LCY fought for his revenge and ended up with NOTHING. As the Klingons stated in Star Trek, "revenge is a dish best served cold" - and indeed, because you are left with NOTHING.

@USAFarmgirl Thank you for all the helpful tips!

@USAFarmgirl I still have not figured out how to use the highlighter, so I have bolded the parts of your statement that I found intriguing. To me, both had limited emotional growth potential because of the worlds that they occupy - they have to focus on self-preservation constantly - it is only when neither know who the other is when they were able to open themselves, and in that moment, that was probably the only moment of actual love - not the crazy romantic kind, but the kind that sustains throughout the river of life and adjusts to the curves, the disappointments and shared joys. You are right - they did not have the opportunity to experience love for a lifetime, but then again, they are not creatures who could make choices and mistakes that allow someone to experience love. I think that I read somewhere that the male lead here is not that different from the male lead in The King's Woman. Except to a certain extent, he knew that he would be lonely for most of his life because of the position that he occupied. I am not sure that the male lead here quite appreciated all of that because he was so totally focused on revenge. The male lead in The King's Woman wanted revenge, the girl, yes, but he also wanted to create a unified China - he had a goal that was beyond just personal vendettas, and so he had to give up everything else. There is a scene in Scarlet Ryeo (the Korean remake of Scarlet Heart) where the general asks the 9th Prince what he is willing to give up to attain the throne? Once he knows that the 9th Prince can give up the thing he treasures the most, then he will support him. And the 9th Prince ultimately did give up what he treasured the most - the woman he loved. @Takingthehighroad - this is a great quote and Blaise Pascal understood the human mind and heart way better than most of us do in the modern era. No, the heart and mind do NOT always work in tandem, and hence, you see all the reasons for the catastrophes, but also the miracles, and the sacrifices that people make.

@piluche the beginning is the end and the end is the beginning; as for the river of forgetfulness, do have of us really ever forget? We'd like to think that we do, but the bruise and the ache are still there - it is just not painful. And despite this drama's ending, neither of them will ever really escape from the mayhem of their emotions and the choices that they made.

@furu.vu217 LCY can never stop acting - he has learned always to mask his true emotions because once he shows love for something, he has learned that it will be taken away from him - love is a fundamental weakness in palace politics. And that is why we all watch and are grateful that despite the pageantry, we can choose to live our own lives and not constantly be playing a game of chess in order just to survive.

@USAFarmgirl or, not learning enough to let go of the past and be open to what could be in the future; when XF held too long onto GX, she failed to see what was right in front of her. Destined to meet but not destined to be together... and maybe this love is not that great, because neither of them can let go of their fears to love. Remember, love is about letting go and neither could let go of revenge (the male lead) and perceptions of a great first love (the female lead).

@jayyepeee this is truly insightful and yes, I too had to watch this drama several times over because each time, you pick up something new. The edges of this drama are jagged and uneven, perhaps not that different from life and the lives that these characters led. This drama is not a linear drama and really in the end, it is not about Qin Sang or Lan Po - it is about the dynamics of family and that you reap what you sow, and you cannot avoid the gamble with lives that someone else set into play long ago - and that is fate.

@Carsten Lovekiky Translator 12 has a new website - https://theresanother.wordpress.com/ - the entire novel is translated here and well worth reading. This Chinese novelist is really about peeling back the different layers of onion and providing an emotional gut punch. Both the drama and the novel should be treasured in their own ways - also, the novel is more realistic to the times of that in-between era between Mao and the end of the monarchy. Unfortunately though, most of the drama watching public probably would not have accepted such brutal and ruthless characters so they had to soften it which is why the secondary characters were probably brought more to life in the drama. Additionally, Translator 12 has provided a lot of great Chinese history and background.

@Hapiangle It happened with The King's Woman and it happened with Siege in Fog too - the endings are awful because they are chopped up and rushed. Most historical cdramas do very well until the mid point and then the last third becomes a mess because the ending is so rushed.

@40somethingahjumma I was with you too originally when I ran through the first 50 episodes in one run and when I watched the episodes as the English subtitles came out, but upon watching the episodes a second and third time, my opinion evolved. Yes, she was bitter and she had closed off her heart and mind to any other possibilities, but there were glimpses that she started to appreciate Liankai but did not trust the thoughts of her heart because of her past experience with Panchi. And, I personally felt that she was constantly trying to get Liankai's attention when she misunderstood the scope of his relationship with the madam who lived in his mother's house. For example, she asked Liankai if he did not want to know who her ex was, and she stated that she wondered how it would be to be truly loved after she saw Liankai's mother's tapestry portrait. There were such subtle hints built throughout the first 21 episodes that watching it piece meal, I missed the clues. This drama was definitely written more like a book than a drama - I just wish the editing had been more coherently executed.

@rosierosie LK and QS belong together - as Qin Sang's father quotes an old saying in China - "It takes ten years to be given a fate of staying in a ship together/It takes a hundred years to obtain a fate of sleeping on the same bed/If you're fated, you will meet even if you're thousands of miles apart/If you're not fated, you wouldn't get to hold hands even if you're just standing face to face" but the catch is that there are no promises as to how long fated couples can stay together. Remember, sometimes, once if you're late, you are late forever.

@jewelsc the novel is still worth reading. It provides background and context that the drama by itself cannot. And we should not judge the novel's characters by our standards today - for the standards back then, this amount of in-family feuding over power and privilege and money was not uncommon. It is not that uncommon today either.

@rosierosie I actually have the same question as you on this - I do not understand Mandarin so I had to rely on the English subtitles but I am pretty sure that I am missing something in translation or the editing turned out very bad on this. I hope that at some point they will release an unedited version because that probably will help us flesh out the story. The actress who played Qin Sang (Su Yin) I have to say did a good job on the following: she evolved physically from a bratty, spoiled, "woe is me" princess to a strong, calm, measured woman who can look people straight in the eye and speak without being defensive. Via her clothes, her posture, her hair and her accessories, Qin Sang demonstrated the evolution of her emotional maturity, and Liankai contributed to this because of his unconditional love for her. For all of Liankai's faults, unconditionally loving someone was not one of them, and he had the key to the door to Qin Sang's heart - he just had to shake the rust out of the lock and push the door open, as he ultimately did in episode 21 when he thought that they would both die and he laid his vulnerabilities and heart out in the open. There were signs in the early episodes that Qin Sang started to fall for Liankai, started to question the playboy facade that he so effortlessly and smoothly presented, but the editing was so choppy you missed it the first time you ran through the episodes. Only after you watch a second and third time do you start to put the pieces together. Qin Sang was too insistent her heart was dead, too insistent that she did not care what Liankai did... indifference does not generate the type of emotion that these two generated in each other. And, whether she realized it or not, she did love Panchi in her own way but they did not generate this type of combustion, and she viewed him more as an escape route from her mother's ambitions than as a partner in building a life together. At the end, I admired the way Qin Sang gazed into Panchi's eyes with such equanimity because he is a memory of long ago and that is it. While, he is stuck on what-might-have-been, she has moved on; he thought that he could return and claim her heart again since Liankai is gone. But the problem is Panchi was a paper cut in her life and Liankai had the ability to shatter her heart, and he did when died. The end is the beginning and the beginning is the end - Qin Sang's journey to loving Liankai started out at the train station and her seeing him for the last time before he died ended at the train station too. The journey of love for Qin Sang came full circle, and the memories that they made and shared, it loops and loops and hurts and hurts. In order for her to survive, to live on, she must bury her memories and forget them until they meet again in another life. As I watched this drama, Qin Sang's quote in episode 3 seems to capture this drama's theme: "For some things, if you are late for once, you are late for the rest of your life." Panchi was too late and ironically, so was Qin Sang. It took her almost three years in her marriage before she recognized Liankai's devotion and love because of her bitterness and stubborn personality, and once she recognized that love and returned it, she was forever playing catch-up and never quite caught up.