[Mainland Chinese Drama 2017] The King’s Woman 泰时丽人明月心

[january1234]

  rosamundekingsley99_stv, dramalover1, Irish_law, briaes- really insightful analyses into the characters and motivation-and the actors' interpretation (or sometimes the lack of it). This forum has been a real find in terms of both the way the series has been discussed, the contributions by everyone-all the clips and humor and the knowledge of history. And also for the references to sources of Asian history/recommendations for other drama. you've all given me a lot to think about.

The first of this is the portrayal of Li, both written and as acted by DD. I must admit  I tried to stop myself from further exploration of her character after the strange decision to leave the palace with Han Shen to speak to JK, followed by an even more inexplicable decision to help free Yan Dan. I still don't get it-and even more don't get why she had to do it-?Chivalry- and why YZ said it was HIS fault in 37. And why is it  (if it is) related to the incident of the 3 children in the moonlight.? Yan Dan wasn't chased to death. He played chess with the King/walked around the palace/seemed to be able to speak to anyone he wanted-even the King's favorite concubine/read his books etc etc. He in fact was free to plot assassination against the King. The only discomfort he was in was that he was the one held hostage rather than the other way around. YZ himself had been held hostage in much less comfortable surroundings, after all, so to YZ (and Yan Dan and all Royal princes) it was the way things were . I also did not get a strong feel of a friendship between them-although they had one revealing conversation and he facilitated  her being released from kidnapping. So why was there a burning need to free him and thus get herself and Tian Ming involved in the consequences of this plot with JK, TM's biological father-unless it was the writers need for unnecessary complication via some weird family dynamic ? Someone should be shouting "LESS IS MORE!!!". It was also for me, badly placed after the lovely scenes in 23/24-and even more questionable when she says in prison to poor Qing'er (whom as someone pointed out, she hadn't considered much if at all) that she expected this to happen, but she was sorrier about the King's pain (?!). The problem is that when she does this sort of thing - it becomes hard to marry up the evident wish to  write her as a Super Heroine-saving the King etc because she was the catalyst for the destruction that followed.

Again though- I don't know if is DD or the difficulties any actress would have with that script. I admit that I don't feel the range of emotion I feel with ZBB. Even when he's crying- I  don't feel he's a  Weak King -after all Even Tigers Cry.And-one of my favorite scenes at the start of E23 where he orders her to sleep beside him-that gaze was all glittering intensity  and cheekbone-like a male tiger about to have a catnap. I have seen the odd trailer of him swishing his robes around like a child and am always surprised that someone who looks like he should be prancing around in a boy band could tun into a barely controlled Tiger.

 

Tian Ming - yes -indeed-what purpose does he serve? Sometimes I feel I'm more concerned about him than his Own Script Mother seems to be-despite the script (like a lot of shows) only giving you a glimpse of him , just to register she has a cute child. But I'm not sure what joy, pain, pride  or pleasure she gets from him (unlike the episode above where there's all of that between YZ and his dying mother-and more with all of that being poured into his  grief and regret when his Mother dies  ). Maybe it's a problem with the rules concerning the use of child actors. Maybe it's a problem with the script as a device. Maybe it's DD - but in fairness she hasn't much to work with. Maybe it's a prequel to a series and they're sticking to it.  Maybe it's me. But whatever it is-the relationship with Tian Ming doesn't feel like an authentic mother-son one, unlike YZ and HIS mother with all the love and hate being poured into grief and loss at her dying. Well done ZBB, you're growing up.

[dramalover1]

BTW - I finally figured out why I was so annoyed w/ the 2nd pregnancy plot thread. (spoiler galore)

 

Spoiler

General Timeline/ events:

 

She finds out she's pregnant w/ YZ's baby while in jail after Yan Dan escape.

 

Instead of telling one of the guards, Li Si, Li Zhong or YZ, she keeps it quiet. 

 

When in Ep 37, she is nauseous, and YZ realizes she's pregnant, he asks her why she didn't tell him such an important matter back then. She says he wouldn't have listened and he has bad temper. He just says sorry to that because he's too happy about the baby. From the way he questions the rightness of having his child outside of the palace, it's obvious he wants to use the baby to convince Li to come back to him. 

 

Then she goes back to the palace. Confronts Madame Min for no real reason, gets nauseous during the confrontation, thereby revealing that she's pregnant to Madam Min.

 

When Madam Min sends Li the miscarriage medicine, Li drinks it.

 

She loses the baby.

 

Shes goes on military expeditions with YZ.

 

My thoughts

 

This whole baby thing feels so manipulative. I finally figured out why I felt vaguely weird about the whole pregnancy thing even tho I thought YZ was so cute when he found out.

 

Li's excuse (you wouldn't have listened. your temper's terrible) is so flimsy, it's almost shocking. When did she ever worry about YZ's temper? (If she cared that much about his temper, why did she leave the palace the 1st time or let Yan Dan escape?) Everyone knows that if YZ had known, he would've never left her in the prison OR allow anybody to keep torturing her for information. As a matter of fact, he would've immediately taken her out, given her the medical care, etc. she needed to recover and have good pregnancy and deliver a healthy child. 

 

And it's not like he wouldn't have believed her. Qin Palace has lots of physicians who could've read her pulse to determine her pregnancy. And none would dare lie because if they lied and she miscarried in jail, YZ would've had them executed along w/ their family. (YZ's MO for dealing with people who failed him is no secret.)

 

I feel like the whole withholding of pregnancy is another emotional manipulation on Li's part to make YZ feel even worse than he does about the torture (and the torture was something she brought onto herself). Of course YZ's going to take all the blame because he made her suffer while pregnant (and as I mentioned previously, pregnancy was very delicate back then due to crappy medical science, etc.). And it's obvious that he desperately needs something like a child between him and her to ally his fear about losing her, etc. He's besides himself with pure joy when he realizes she's pregnant with his child, and he's even starting to coming up with good names. 

 

And what makes me even madder the more I think about it is that if she'd revealed her condition, YZ would've not only stopped the torture for her but for Qing because she would need a trusted maid to take care of her to protect the baby from those who would want to cause a miscarriage. So Qing too suffered for much longer than she had to.

 

And it's such a plot convenience she confronted Min for no real reason, then drink the miscarriage medicine. She wanted to keep the pregnancy secret from others in the court, and YZ agreed, and they didn't even tell the royal physicians. So why would she just drink the medicine, ostensibly sent by YZ for her pregnancy, without checking first? That made ZERO sense.

 

I feel like the writers made her lose the baby so that she could join YZ for the military invasions. There is NO WAY YZ would let her come w/ him if she were pregnant. 

 

So even though we had some sweet scenes when YZ found out about her pregnant, ultimately, I feel like it was a cheap way to manipulate audience. If Li had just revealed it earlier, HS would've never taken her out of the palace, and there wouldn't have been all those pointless angst on YZ's part about how he felt bad he couldn't make her happy, etc., going on the foolish campaign and get lost and get rescued by Li, etc. 

 

Writers and directors are really messing things up here, spending way too much time on plot points that end up being meaningless and rushing through critical points that should've been expanded and spent more time on. They wasted so many episodes on JK's baby (like I care), and YZ's baby got maybe 2 episodes, when TBH I much prefer that YZ and Li have a baby together and be happy. 

 

I watch it because I like YZ, and I really hope Li treats him better.

[SeGafanlady]

On 9/27/2017 at 6:08 AM, thunderman1 said:

 

  Hide contents

LE will die.. sad but it will happen. I want a blissful ending but ya'll know C-dramas are either open ending or tragic!

 

 

most of them but not all... epic chinese drama General and I had the best happy ending..

 

and I agree with the poor writing of Sun Li character.. (not a good timing now since I'm watching General and I again) I was hoping Sun Li can be as amazing as Bai Ping Ting.. 

 

still the best and purest love story ever.. 

 

Spoiler

 

[dramalover1]

40 minutes ago, SeGafanlady said:

 

most of them but not all... epic chinese drama General and I had the best happy ending..

 

and I agree with the poor writing of Sun Li character.. (not a good timing now since I'm watching General and I again) I was hoping Sun Li can be as amazing as Bai Ping Ting.. 

 

still tbe best and purest love story ever.. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I haven't seen General and I. Is it really angsty?

[dramalover1]

11 hours ago, Irish_law said:

I'm still on ep. 27, can't help raising my eyebrows when Li'er decides to help Prince Yan Dan, I was like, why. I know she wants to help but it's very risky, even though Ying Zheng loves her but she did this kind of political move behind him, gosh trouble is coming for her. I thought she's smart enough and think other option to help. 

 

Yes entertaining. Agree with you, Tree With Deep Roots is such an excellent kdrama, I loved it!! Six Flying Dragons made me want to learn about joseon, the politics, the noblemen, the land policy and the kings more, and I found a tumblr (link I posted) made by a korean native to explain the historical background. For international viewers like me, it's very helpful.

 

It is very complicated because records are plenty, but many are sort of recorded with too much reverence and/or slant.

 

TREE WITH DEEP ROOTS is great, although the whole conflict between Taejong and Sejong  was ridiculous. Taejong was known for being stupidly adoring with his son (Sejong was his 3rd son, not the oldest, born from his queen, not concubines). And without Taejong's bloody purge, Sejong wouldn't have been able to do what he set out to do. And Sejong adored his father.  

 

And if you look at the history of Joseon, it's obvious that Taejong had the right idea about killing all the royal in-laws for one reason or another. 

 

PREVIEWS

 

[SeGafanlady]

1 hour ago, dramalover1 said:

 

I haven't seen General and I. Is it really angsty?

it's awesome on a whole different level..... 

[Latte_Anyday]

Ep.37:- So instead of drinking himself into a drunken stupor like Jing Ker, a heartbroken Ying Zhen goes into battle? Okayyy~ The sight of Bin2 with his hair down remind me of his role in Ten Miles Of Peach Blossoms. Poor General Meng LoL! He was only doin' his duty to protect the King & he got reprimanded f it aish~ It's hard to please Ying Zheng ain't it!? And the kind lady too... The sight of a domestic Ying Zheng is freaking hilarious and the lady's right with the rate of lovin' our OTP are at - when will dinner be served LoL?? Ying Zheng is so possessive, not to mention crazy jealous as well. Like yea I get you love your woman but let poor Lady Li breathe a lil huh. Wow Lady Li is I swear Wonder Woman in disguise LoL. She survived the torture f helping Prince Yan (he's a hottie too) AND somehow her pregnancy is...unaffected? Was she practising meditation during her torture? It's just not feasible.

 

Ep.38:- I'm sorry but I normally ff scenes whenever Jing Ker appears, it just bores me f some reason Aww~ Han leaves the palace he looks even more handsome btw. Again I'm disappointed w Lady Li f showing her weakness before Lady Min. Seriously when will she ever learn? I don't feel sorry f Lady Min at all, but I appreciate her hustle. She definitely is sharp witted and manipulative. Then again one needs to resort to such dirty tactics to survive in the palace.

 

I really love how Bin2 puts his hand at the back of Dilraba's head when they hug (it's like a signature Bin2 move LoL) he holds her even closer this way and I notice his hands look huge against Dilraba's small head eheheh   

[blessedchild]

1 hour ago, Latte_Anyday said:

Ep.37:- So instead of drinking himself into a drunken stupor like Jing Ker, a heartbroken Ying Zhen goes into battle? Okayyy~ The sight of Bin2 with his hair down remind me of his role in Ten Miles Of Peach Blossoms. Poor General Meng LoL! He was only doin' his duty to protect the King & he got reprimanded f it aish~ It's hard to please Ying Zheng ain't it!? And the kind lady too... The sight of a domestic Ying Zheng is freaking hilarious and the lady's right with the rate of lovin' our OTP are at - when will dinner be served LoL?? Ying Zheng is so possessive, not to mention crazy jealous as well. Like yea I get you love your woman but let poor Lady Li breathe a lil huh. Wow Lady Li is I swear Wonder Woman in disguise LoL. She survived the torture f helping Prince Yan (he's a hottie too) AND somehow her pregnancy is...unaffected? Was she practising meditation during her torture? It's just not feasible.

 

Ep.38:- I'm sorry but I normally ff scenes whenever Jing Ker appears, it just bores me f some reason Aww~ Han leaves the palace he looks even more handsome btw. Again I'm disappointed w Lady Li f showing her weakness before Lady Min. Seriously when will she ever learn? I don't feel sorry f Lady Min at all, but I appreciate her hustle. She definitely is sharp witted and manipulative. Then again one needs to resort to such dirty tactics to survive in the palace.

 

I really love how Bin2 puts his hand at the back of Dilraba's head when they hug (it's like a signature Bin2 move LoL) he holds her even closer this way and I notice his hands look huge against Dilraba's small head eheheh   

 

Me too! Love it when Bin2 puts his hand at the back of Dilraba's head!

[Guest]

 

 

 

 

 

[shellie_gal]

9 hours ago, dramalover1 said:

 

I haven't seen General and I. Is it really angsty?

 

imo, this drama is the worst. the novel translation was wonderful and i loved it. the drama is a butchered up version. i tried multiple times to watch it because i simply loved the novel but i couldn't finish it. it leaves a bad taste in my mouth every time.

 

 

a lot of cut and paste scenes where you can tell angelababy wasn't there at the time of shooting, reddish skin color, very bad cgi, a typical love story (which was changed from the novel), etc. you can read more reviews on mydramalist or watch it. it's on dramafever.

[Kasmic]

Omo just bumping in here. Sorry Ive been always lurking but neva had time to delurk and post comments but this next spoiler is scaring me. I know this drama may not end well and looks like all hell breaks loose. Ekkkk!!!

But why does she want to kill the King? And she  doesnt look like she wants to do it...

[Latte_Anyday]

@dramalover1BRAVO on all the points you brought up on the inconsistencies in Li's character throughout the drama. I feel like Li's characterization is a typical Mary Sue that I've seen in about 99% of C-Dramas. The fact that there was hardly any history/interaction w Han-Li revealed anywhere in the beginning and all a sudden the viewers are led to believe he had a one-sided crush on her the entire time! BTW there's still no reveal on Ying Zhen-Li's childhood connection either. Don't get me started on how wishy-washy & weak Li has become. 

Like I've said countless times Li seem to be more the King's bodyguard than his woman. I felt Dilraba's breakdown in the miscarriage was...awkward? She look too pretty f a woman who lost her baby. Also I can't understand why Li is acting so chaste when Ying Zhen gets intimate/kisses her. Even he reminds her that she's his wife. 

OT I only watched General & I midway through. Been wanting to watch in its entirety but having a case of too many dramas,  too lil time. Some ep. were dull though. 

 

[dramalover1]

I just watched up to ep 40 in English sub. God. Talk about goguma progression. (For those of you who don't know, goguma = sweet potatoes / yam in Korean. It's when something feels frustrating and difficult to stomach like eating sweet potatoes without anything to drink)

 

Spoiler

Ep 39-40

 

she loses the baby, can't swear Tianming's YZ's baby to Min.

 

Li is so sad that she fell for YZ but YZ's love can be shaken by frivolous accusations from Min. (Um. No. Li, it's all your fault b/c you kept running off (staging  fake kidnapping, etc.) w/ JK, who YZ knows is your 1st lover and Tianming's daddy. Min was just smart to use it to rouse YZ's jealousy and insecurity that he may still be Li's 2nd choice. Besides, she hasn't told YZ how much she loves him, and that he's the only one for her. She told HS and Qing she loves YZ, but never to YZ. Which is so stupid it hurts. Is he supposed to read her mind now?)

 

YZ's insecure and jealous b/c he thinks maybe he's still Li's 2nd choice.

 

Huayang Empress is dead.

 

Li asks YZ to take Dowager (YZ's birth mom) to Handan. Again this makes ZERO sense b/c he plans to invade Zhao/Handan ASAP, but he lets her go b/c she asks so pretty.

 

Lu Buwei is an idiot so he arranges for a secret meeting with Dowager. Li knows this, but WITHHOLDS THIS CRUCIAL INFO FROM YZ. (And she wonders why YZ has a serious trust issue w/ her.... BECAUSE YOU KEEP WITHHOLDING STUFF LIKE THIS!!!!!) And without letting YZ know, she takes Dowager to the secret meeting place.

 

LBW takes YZ's mom hostage to force a meeting.

 

Li Mu (the only decent general on Zhao's side who can stop YZ's invasion) kills himself upon being accused of treason.

 

Zhao falls. Li tells YZ that Dowager's waiting. AGAIN SHE DOESN'T TELL HIM ABOUT LU BUWEI. I don't know why. But it's SO FRUSTRATING!!!!!!!!

 

So of course, YZ is like shocked like crazy to see Lu Buwei. Prince Jia apparently has been monitoring Lu Buwei, so he attacks YZ while he's meeting Lu Buwei. YZ kills him.

 

YZ and Jia fight. Jia loses and runs.

 

Min Dai has her revenge of Zhao falling apart, then kills herself.

 

YZ massacres everyone in the city who's ever mocked him. (I think that in history, instead of killing them on streets, he had them all buried alive along w/ their family)

 

Dowager's not doing so hot, and is going to die soon.

 

LZ says YZ is missing. AGAIN. (And I guess it's up to Li to find him again  in Handan....and save him... This plot device is getting old now)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Latte_Anyday said:

@dramalover1BRAVO on all the points you brought up on the inconsistencies in Li's character throughout the drama. I feel like Li's characterization is a typical Mary Sue that I've seen in about 99% of C-Dramas. The fact that there was hardly any history/interaction w Han-Li revealed anywhere in the beginning and all a sudden the viewers are led to believe he had a one-sided crush on her the entire time! BTW there's still no reveal on Ying Zhen-Li's childhood connection either. Don't get me started on how wishy-washy & weak Li has become. 

Like I've said countless times Li seem to be more the King's bodyguard than his woman. I felt Dilraba's breakdown in the miscarriage was...awkward? She look too pretty f a woman who lost her baby. Also I can't understand why Li is acting so chaste when Ying Zhen gets intimate/kisses her. Even he reminds her that she's his wife. 

OT I only watched General & I midway through. Been wanting to watch in its entirety but having a case of too many dramas,  too lil time. Some ep. were dull though. 

 

 

Yeah. Seriously...  Qin already has the best army, best military generals, etc. What YZ needs is a woman who loves him and trusts him and cares deeply about his happiness, not a woman who guards his body while playing frivolous mind games w/ his emotions/affection. This is getting old now. And her acting is getting progressively worse because in every scene she is either looking pretty or just pulls her eyebrows together as hard as possible to create deep furrows as tho they can emote whatever she wants to emote.

 

NO. NO. NO.

[dramalover1]

2 hours ago, Kasmic said:

Omo just bumping in here. Sorry Ive been always lurking but neva had time to delurk and post comments but this next spoiler is scaring me. I know this drama may not end well and looks like all hell breaks loose. Ekkkk!!!

But why does she want to kill the King? And she  doesnt look like she wants to do it...

Because the plot says she should.

[eighbcdefg]

2 hours ago, Kasmic said:

Omo just bumping in here. Sorry Ive been always lurking but neva had time to delurk and post comments but this next spoiler is scaring me. I know this drama may not end well and looks like all hell breaks loose. Ekkkk!!!

But why does she want to kill the King? And she  doesnt look like she wants to do it...

 

WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?!

[fellice]

2 hours ago, Kasmic said:

Omo just bumping in here. Sorry Ive been always lurking but neva had time to delurk and post comments but this next spoiler is scaring me. I know this drama may not end well and looks like all hell breaks loose. Ekkkk!!!

But why does she want to kill the King? And she  doesnt look like she wants to do it...

I read for Youtube comments that YZ will kill Lier by giving her poisoned drink? Is it true? Like why? >_< I don't want their story to end like this.. It would be so bitter. At least when Lier has to die, I would be relieved if she died to protect the king. Idk what's going on anymore. I just hope the plot of this story won't go to more frustating decision.

[dramalover1]

5 minutes ago, fellice said:

I read for Youtube comments that YZ will kill Lier by giving her poisoned drink? Is it true? Like why? >_< I don't want their story to end like this.. It would be so bitter. At least when Lier has to die, I would be relieved if she died to protect the king. Idk what's going on anymore. I just hope the plot of this story won't go to more frustating decision.

She could choose to protect her idiotic senior JK. 

[Guest moo1304]

3 hours ago, Kasmic said:

Omo just bumping in here. Sorry Ive been always lurking but neva had time to delurk and post comments but this next spoiler is scaring me. I know this drama may not end well and looks like all hell breaks loose. Ekkkk!!!

But why does she want to kill the King? And she  doesnt look like she wants to do it...

 

the plot become ridiculous... i feel like wasting my time watching this series 

 

[dramalover1]

3 minutes ago, moo1304 said:

 

the plot become ridiculous... i feel like wasting my time watching this series 

 

Yeah. I'm pretty close to giving up, and I only have 6 more eps to go to finish this. Argh.

[january1234]

Well, the trailer above means that's the end for me.I wasn't realistically thinking of a happy ending for HER, but I thought the writers might have the sense to preserve the ONE thing in the series that really made it worthwhile -their relationship . Instead of which they seem to be throwing in the kitchen sink of every thing they could think about to get her center stage in a VERY tragic ending-possibly the WORST where they turn against each other, and ruin all the chemistry we loved between the leads.And if this means less of them as a couple, and more of her trying to act like the tragic heroine-possibly fellow assassin of the King she seems to be at present loving so much, then I am out. Also, I  agree with those of you who have commented on DD's acting, that's getting worse too-and more irritating. And I will just be even MORE irritated at her attempts , if she tries , to kill the king-or act out any conflict between them as she's no match for ZBB acting wise. I have just managed to live up to E42.As I''ve said before, why don't Directors , producers etc  realize what their strengths are (that awesome ZBB-DD) chemistry-and ALSO that  less is MORE. Instead of trying for some Universal Greek tragedy style drama, they had a perfectly good story people wanted to watch . And BTW, the history is less and less accurate.

I'll keep watching the forum-but I may not if I don't want to see an ending that will feel I  wasted  time watching this.

You've all been great contributors.