[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

moonlover399993 · October 26, 2016

24 minutes ago, kdramawriter said:

For some reason I always agree with you 40somethingahjumma. I was really surprised by all the negative reaction because I've been really enjoying the ride. I think the show did a service to itself by starting the relationships so slowly, it was extremely careful in how it showed how each character developed feelings for each other and that's exactly the reason we're having SUCH a tumultuous/heated reaction to all the action that's happening now. I don't think of this show as any Korean Drama, it seems to be heavily influenced by American television: these last four episodes are essentially a long Season Finale. In the season finale, all the action that has been simmering finally COMES TO HEAD and that's why these episodes feels so incredibly fast paced. Because they are, and because we're finally paying off everything that we've learned in episode 1-17. The Chae Ryeun flashback feels like it's stuffed in, but if you remember, almost every character death has had a similar flashback (Lady Hae, King Taejo) The show has not deviated from it's pre-existing style. How you feel about it is up to you.

I still love the emotional journey of the characters; I still feel like show stays really true to it's roots.

ON WANG SO

Wang So has always said to Hae Su that he would protect her, but there are two things that he can't protect her from: death, and himself. These are to the two things that are inevitable and it's going to be Wang So who hurts her the most. What's also incredibly tragic is all the things that Wang So said in the beginning when Hae Su entered the palace BECAME TRUE. He told her to trust no one in the palace (she trusted Chae Ryung, Wook, both whom betrayed her) and he told her everyone in the palace is alone. Her optimism rebutted at first, but look at where we are. Wang So is alone. Hae Su is alone. That is a true tragedy, to be told your fate, to buck against it, and to ultimately fail. Ugh, right in the gut man.

I don't know why people are disappointed that Wang So is not a good king. We've been told and shown over and over again that the King's seat is an incredible precarious position. Both Yo and Mu were easily killed by usurpers, no wonder they were paranoid. So now that Wang So sits on the throne, he loses the power of the Yoos and the Hwangbos, and now has to consolidate that power. He's not as powerful as Wook because Wook has been acting as a minister for all these years, working with people and getting them on his side. It's just like in Game of Thrones how Robert Baratheon was a great general, but a terrible King. I think Wang So will be a good king, but this initial hardship is refreshing! I always appreciate this about the show, that it takes unexpected direction for us. The things we think will happen definitely do not.

ON HAE SU

Okay, what happened to all those Hae Su haters that were angry at her for not wanting to Wang So to become king at the end of 16?? Where are your loud complaints now? Because literally everything that Hae Su has feared that Wang So would do, that the Kingship would force him to do, the separation, the cruelty, etc, he had to do it ALL this episode. I didn't think Hae Su was stupid at all for stating her doubts for Wang So. She has personally seen the death of two kings at the throne. She's personally served both. I think she was completely cognizant of all the machinations, the paranoia, the greed of the power who are around the king. She didn't want it for Wang So. Now do you get why?? She's accepted that Wang So would become King because of her great love for him. She even made him King because that's what he wanted. And now, who's paying the price? Hae Su. God girl, I want you to get out of there no matter how much you love Wang So. Her love is such a double edged sword. On the one hand, who she is allowed her to love Wang So, despite GIGANTIC RED FLAGS (um, temple of death much) BUT it's also the reasons that she also loved Chae Ryung. Like 40somethingahjumma said, she would not shuttle these characteristics just because it's more convenient to do so. Hae Su is the definition of inconvenient.

ON PATRIARCHY

Overthinking kdrama talks about how this is a story of a monstrous patriarchy that feeds on women and destroys them in the process. These women love these men despite their absolute power to destroy them. And this is such a fine read for me. Because if you look at every single female character, they die when they fall in love with a Prince. It's too precarious of a position to be in if you are not also yourself a Royal surrounded by power. Even being the daughter of a general is not enough. Seon Deok, Hae Su, Cha Ryeun, are all going to die DIRECTLY as a result of their love for the princes. This is the great overarching sadness of the show: that theses women are doomed as soon as they fall in love with a prince, but that they struggle on anyways. Aish, my heart hurts writing this. There are NO sides to blame for this. There are no ships sinking or whatever - this I've always maintained because I've not been watching the show for this. Just the mere fact that women have ALWAYS suffered at the hands of the men who love them. That's the great tragedy for me.

ON FUTURE SADNESS

My theory is that all those poems that Hae Su made Wang So write over and over again are going to come back and it's gonna bite Wang So so hard in the richard simmons. If we thought LJK did a great job with the Queen Yoo death scene, wait until the Hae Su death scene. We're all gonna need to take leave from work for a week.

I also suspect that her diary written in Hangul will somehow be in a museum in the future. Maybe she sees it when she goes back to the future and maybe that's the moment she meets next-Gen Wang So.

***Sorry I haven't able to update Escape From the Palace, I'm like too emotional right now.

I'm really looking forward to that part. Hopefully they have one last scene together as So had with his mother. Your right, we all are gonna take a leave from work, or in my case absence from classes. It's too much for a person to handle seeing those raw emotions. If we can't handle it, I really don't know how actors can show such raw emotions during those scenes. That's why they are on A-list, especially our LJG.

arabela · October 26, 2016

I llike WS from the beginning and fall in love with him on the way .... but is hard love ... cause I was always aware this is a guilty love ...

I like a character who is extremely impressive , smart, loyal, direct, has a lot of courage, is determined and passion, honest, can be loving and funny, can be generous, can risk his life for his beloved ones, can make great things, but who can also be so egocentric and ruthless .... he killed a horse just to make a point, put a mountain on fire just to express his fury, killed the monks just to get himself his mother appreciation ( his mother doesn't need his killings, like she said and like we can see- she try to kill two of king s son and don't get punished, sshe has a very powerful position, she wasn't in real danger so his killings wasn't necessary, even if they did help his mother, and he didn't do it to truly protect her, but to get her appreciation, this is way he wasn't satisfy with her mere being protected but went after her approval and love ---- no matter how I can empathize with his pain, I don't think killing is an answer) , forced himself on a girl just because he loves her and needs her, always tell her you are mine, even you are my queen, but never I am your person, who's love is so much embedded with possessiveness, who is more of a taker than as a giver , who is not able to let go of his pain and need to punish his mother for rejecting him even on her beddeath , who is more afraid of losing HS s love than to be able to feel real and authentic remorse

like when a victim of an emotional and physical abuse becomes a bullier, I find myself having mixed feelings and ambivalence .... he is not only merely a wolf dog, but he is also something like this ... and being a king gives a lot of opportunities for this part to show up, cause is his nature to react with anger and merciless in disparate situation, to punish when he is hurt, to take what he thinks it is his, to not trust, but to forced himself on other .... these are his strategies to survive and now as a king he has even more to fight for his survive so he has more to be this part of himself ... everybody fights with what he has , and this is what he has as this stage in his life ... when he will nature even more he will probably have more resources on his side and don't need to be so ruthless ... this doesn't make him an evil man, but also it doesn't give him the forgiveness and love he yearn so much, nor does it give him excuses .... in the end I understand HS .... you can love such a man,but you cannot live with him when this ruthless side is taking over him .....

pwnkl · October 26, 2016

Just my 2cents with Wang So.. and with the preview where he go crazy mad and shut downs HS.

Honestly, I don't like it either.. that this "mossy-sunken-ship-of-WW&HS" is like the major blow for So breaking up with Soo. Yea, sure it's petty but I remember someone already said in here were talking about past affairs moreover engagement/marriage during Goryeo's era that enuff is a whole different story.

To us it's heck petty but I don't really find it so out of character.. his jealousy is pretty consistent throughout.. and we were always reminded by that even when he's not showing the gray side of him. perfect one is during the first stargazing date that time So is like his clothes light colored-- then he admits of being jealous with Jung then with Queen Yoo's death + HS let Jung in. Simply, Wang So is Wang So before HS and until now.. then the next scenario that shows his jealousy when HS hid Jung in her room. He even said to her bluntly.. how long did he contemplated on breaking through her door. The dude is trying, holding it in, if you guys can understand HS from leaving because of the excessive pain she's receiving then is So's endurance limitless? Pressure from the throne, worry and concern to HS + HS's anger and ofc his own feeling.. I bet you he's also blaming himself for getting caught with the marriage with YH must've been feel so frustrated that he's a king and yet he's still incompletely free from being controlled and furthermore.. don't you think he's dead lonely for not not be able to go to HS in with no restraint? Talking about self desire here.

The last straw was his ego being stepped on. Guys, Wang So is a man.. and ofc he's a human he's no exception for each human's emotion. if HS became paranoid from her visions then Wang So is probably going to go paranoid with his blind jealousy.. blind? yes.. I could question that.. he might have been faithful and knowing that HS has someone for a decade and it seems just like nothing to him.. but heck he only knew that much, it's different if you now have assumptions what's worse if you can justify it. Yes' he got prior recollection to justify that jealousy.. How many times did HS tried to protect WW from him? vocally and not. Wang So is not dense after all as he sense that HS is caring deeply towards Wook.. it's just that he didn't suspect him for he was a married man, why just two people he candidly mention-- Baek Ah and Jung.. he knew HS hates polygamy so in his logic Wook is a minus. And now what? if the English translation is dead accurate..

Quote

WS: "Did you really plan on getting married with Wook?" -- HS: "Yes, you're right"

I could just imagine how much crazy he thinks.. bottom line.. he's probably gonna think he lose against Wook. He's the first.. she's into that household long enough.. when did, how, what did, and you said you hate polygamy?.. I bet million questions is frying his brain. As much as I hate the idea, I won't throw stones at him because I could understand Wang So's POV and actions.. and let's not forget.. He already had this creeping resentment towards Wook. If HS got CR then Wang So also have people before HS.. have all the right to resent and avenge the lost of someone dear to him. And yet he still tried to spare CR because of HS.. Yes he might have been a bit rough towards HS after ascending the throne but his love never change, that I'm certainly sure. However the issue with Wook-Soo is not something easy to deal with for him, as how hard jealous person Wang So is. Now that they're both burnt-out.. what's next is expected.

---

Anyway, the speculation if Wook confessing intended to help HS out of the palace.. Then this is really something.. it's not poor written but it's a trash. I'm going to go against that idea until the very end. Wook is a bastard! The moment he made YH a queen, that I completely give up to the thought somehow they could redeem his character with two colors before getting darker than black. Honestly I still can't believe it how the writer is still not exposing Wook's evil deeds towards HS.. if this happen then what? HS until the very end is going to get fooled thinking that Wook's only stain is his greed towards the throne? Come on.. you made Wang So a monster in her eyes.. but the real monster keeps his sheep's clothes in HS's eyes? I'm seriously dumbfounded with this.

But I agree with the theory that the one who frames up Wook is YH or at least YH helped WS. This will be sweet! I'm so in to this!

In regards, if ever Wang So consummate with YH because of his blind jealousy.. and writer-nim going to forsake history. I DAMN TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! this should never happen! This will just ruin So's character..

Lastly, they better not leave YH unpunished.. that'll be just so wrong *sigh* how could innocent people like SD and Eun gets a lash while this witch is living the life? So please I demand that WS will only consummate her according to history.. please please pretty please~drama-gods' writer-nim. You already inflict intense countless torment almost each episode.. can you let this one go?

P.S I'm not being one-sided in this.. I wanted to write about HS but it's 2 AM here and I have to back read 20+ pages (currently on page 1577).. but probably it'll be for tomorrow. Good Night! / Good Day! Eclipse

Yippeun_eonnie · October 26, 2016

I'm planning to make a project different than @akinahana89, hers is so awesome project really thanked her for creating the project. And I want to do something more simple....Next week during the finale can we all send many IG comments on LJG instagram using the same hashtag so he will notice.

It will be great if the hashtag is the short quote of his lines in this drama...like example my propose is "You are my person"

Can you all give ideas on what the catchy phrase to be used in the hashtag so it will catch his attention??

Even Hae Soo screwed his life in Goryeo I plan to make him a happiest man that day...LOL

October 26, 2016

Spoiler

Crap... .he scared me...where is my WS

elisluvgeunscouple · October 26, 2016

History will be still a history coz it was clearly stated in Korea/Georyo History

chi13lou · October 26, 2016

6 hours ago, tinniet said:

This girl simply doomed herself.

and she said she was planning to say yes to marrying WW to Lady Oh!LOL

junejungki · October 26, 2016

8 minutes ago, moonlover399993 said:

I'm really looking forward to that part. Hopefully they have one last scene together as So had with his mother. Your right, we all are gonna take a leave from work, or in my case absence from classes. It's too much for a person to handle seeing those raw emotions. If we can't handle it, I really don't know how actors can show such raw emotions during those scenes. That's why they are on A-list, especially our LJG.

That part when WS cried when his mother died. I have to look away. I cannot take it. It was too much for me. You see, how good his acting was.

zachomel · October 26, 2016

After such episode last night, listening to Jung Seung Hwan's Wind OST does not help at all.

I keep thinking on Soo looking at the mirror with so-called wedding gown scene.

5 days waiting and knowing its the last week of the drama is torturing indeed.

liddi · October 26, 2016

@n00nk3y Nope, you're not the only one. I am really hoping that the drama rips our hearts out as well - because if they are adapting from BBJX, I would feel inordinately shortchanged if the pain for the characters (and the viewers) is not at least as searing and unforgettable as the source material. MLSHR has been doing a stellar job so far of breaking our hearts, and I cannot imagine that they would stay their hand when it comes to the two people who are the core of the entire story.

@40somethingahjumma No, you didn't misunderstand my post I see what you mean... but perhaps I am less willing to accept the purges, knowing So's capacity and hoping that Soo's redemptive love helped temper that part of him. However, why am I surprised? 4th Prince did exactly the same thing when he claimed the throne based on a lie, and then put to death his father's loyal eunuch (one who guided and protected Ruoxi during her tenure in the palace) as he knew the truth with regards to whom Kangxi really appointed as his successor. And the cruel purges that followed... many of whom framed or stood against him in the past, or did harm to those he loved, like the head eunuch in the laundry department who dared to have designs on Ruoxi when she served there. Anyway, back to Goryeo. I am bracing myself as this side of So is revealed more and more though I fear for So and Baek Ah's relationship, knowing that Woo Hee is rightfully afraid of being exposed as Yo's spy, and the repercussions that are possibly awaiting her once So finds out. Would So stay his hand for Baek Ah's sake? Or would he finally assert himself as Baek Ah's king, and not his brother, when it came down to it? I am afraid that it will be the former... which means in the end, we will see Gwangjong alone at the dinner table... the two people he loves the most having left his side.

@jayakris Thank you for sharing the actual disclaimer shown in both versions. Actually, there are at least 2 SBS versions that I have seen - one of which has the opening song, and no disclaimers (yes yes, MLSHR and its multiple versions!). I have no idea either why the disclaimers would differ... all I can tell you is that the translation of the subs you saw were Dramafever's, and we never thought to question it until you pointed it out. But whatever the reason, please no different endings between versions as well. That would really, as someone once mentioned, make MLSHR the drama version of "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, with 101 endings and at least as many ways to get there

isengdoang · October 26, 2016

1 hour ago, zi4r said:

Spoiler

BTS is adorable! I guess they realize the fans need some healing after the intense episode last night.

I haven't watched the episode with subs, even though (unlike Ep17) it was a visual-enough episode for me to almost fully understand what's going on. My US VPN is down (they promise to get it back up in the next 6 hours) and my China server is also going through maintenance, so I can't watch DF or Youku versions. DarkSmurfSubs aren't out yet either. So, for now, with the limited understanding of the episode, let me give a general opinion on its quality.....

IMO, Ep18 is very well done despite all the limitations/difficulties imposed on it by the plot setup to this point and the large ground it had to cover, given we have only 2 episodes left. Yes, they could've tightened up the editing a bit, but (well, I might be being extra-forgiving, after the abysmal editing quality of the previous episode but) they did it well enough for the editing to not detract from the plot and the tension it delivered. And deliver, it did!

To talk about the quality of the episode, I need to address the difficulties the episode had to overcome, and how I felt it sufficiently (actually, quite brilliantly at some points) overcame them. It is, IMO, one of the strongest episodes, because many things could have gone so wrong and yet they managed to make it work. Here's what I mean:

1) How they handled the progression of Hae Soo's character

I have given harsh criticism to how Hae Soo's character was painted in Ep14-16... and I felt it was intentional, and not a f-up by the writer or IU's acting. I was right. And I am so saddened by what the kind of role this drama has made this character fulfill.

(Read inside spoiler tag for character trajectory from Ep1-13):

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Ep 1-8: HS was an innocent, fish-out-of-water, trusting and giving girl. That made her a cute damsel-in-distress for her scenes with Wang So, and I had no problem with that. Because what else can we expect out of a girl trapped in a 16yo body due to a timeslip?

Ep 9-10: She had to deal with the visions. Yes, she fumbled along the way but at least for me, held herself admirably well, against the onslaught of confusion and fear imposed by the visions.

Ep 11-12: Here comes the breaking of her spirit. So much tragedy, so much heartbreak, so much pain..... yet, her quiet resilience and strength of character took my breath away and made me fall in love with her. There she was, a crippled laundry-maid, and yet she kept her heart true to the man she loved (WW) and also strove to protect the man who is madly in love with her (WS).

Ep 13: The true calling has come, for her time in Goryeo. I believed that she would play a pivotal role in the war over the throne. And there she was. This tiny figure, limping away..... yet so strong, making all the right decisions, taking on the weight of responsibilities no one in her station should have to bear.

Look at her character trajectory... Beautiful, isn't it? We were witnessing the true making of a person. So how did I expect that character to go from there? Up and up, of course... at least until GJ becomes King and breaks her heart, I thought. Here's what I was hoping for (inside spoiler tag):

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I was hoping that WS's love would begin to heal her... that she would become trusting and loving very few people, yet doing so more fully to those few people; that she would become wisened and hardened by time, and yet still retaining a warm heart... one that she only allows WS (and maybe a few close friends) to see. In later episodes, I had hopes that she could become his strength, not just as a lover but as a partner. Because being a courtlady means having the eyes-and-ears in every nook and crevice of the palace. Can you imagine how much of an asset that would have been to WS (let's say, as Chae-ryung was to WWon)? It's not that I wanted WS to use her; but I was hoping she would still play a bigger role than just a dumb girlfriend to WS. Because someone as burdened as WS needs a strong partner... and the character trajectory of Ep1-13 proves that HS could have become that!

Just imagine..... HS managing to uncover some conspiracy in the palace, and helping WS protect Mu... how nice it could have been! Then, when GJ becomes King, I was hoping she could remain his confidante --- yes, he would marry YH, but HS would remain to be his strength, his love, his core of existence..... until one day, he goes too far and she cannot bear to embrace the man he has become. Then, the heartbreak would come for both parties, then HS dies/disappears, then modern era...... THE END.

Tragic or happy ending, it wouldn't have mattered much to me. If Hae Soo and Wang So have fully lived their time together, then it would have been worth it. I would have embraced that plot fully.

But rather than that, what did we get? We didn't get to see HS's "healing" because of the timeskip. Rather than being as highlighted, she has become the total opposite: (inside spoiler tag)

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A hardened woman that seems to be especially suspicious of and tough in judging WS. A woman efficient in menial labour of tending to the King (mercury poisoning non-withstanding) and the princes, but seems to have no other purpose or role in the palace life. (She, BA and WH could have been great source of strength and support for WS, but all three seem to have lost interest in serving any purpose other than to just exist.) And worse, once the events turn turbulent in Ep14, she was totally unprepared for it all, and she seems to not know at all where she stands in WS's life. (Well, she's right in feeling that she matters little in practical sense to him, because as I've said, she doesn't play any essential role in his life at all!)

So, since she doesn't have any other role in Ep14-17 than to be WS's love (and to make her visions not come true), her focus was entirely on that. And amidst all the death and tragedy and conspiracies, she becomes this woman focused on his feelings towards her, and nothing else. And oh how I LOATHED that. How dare they!!! They built a female character with such potential to be strong and wise and resilient... and then destroyed her mid-series and made her into this pathetic woman who just waits around for her man, one whose insecurities and emotions overrule logic at every turn.

Now that I've watched Ep18, I realize this is exactly how cruelly the writer wishes to paint this story. HS has never mattered much as a courtlady... and without those responsibilities, only as the King's lover, she matters even less now. Unlike YH or Queen Yoo or Woo-hee or even Chae-ryung, in the courtly game, she is utterly useless. Even if she could become a Concubine/Queen, she would still be just an accessory, the pretty girl on the King's arms. She has direct access to the King's ears, but the headstrong WS has never truly respected her enough when it comes to her opinions (Oh, he loves her and respects her feelings; but her thoughts and her advice? Not much.) and the full-efficiency-mode GJ respects it even less.

This makes for a very logical break in their relationship. There was no need for a real turning point. (Even CR's punishment and death was not really a turning point, because the relationship between HS and GJ (unlike that of HS and WS) has never really worked. Since he stepped on the throne, she already has no place in his life, even though she undoubtedly still occupies almost the whole of his heart.

So why do I feel Ep18 has done well about this character? HS's handling of WS's marriage to YH, his treatment of Queen Yoo & Jung, punishment, and death of CR..... She handled them all with the maturity that I find so refreshing to see.

From her loving reassurance when they discussed the marriage...

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To her offer of comfort and acceptance despite her own misgivings about his treatment of Jung...

(Just a side note here: This mirrors the first "makeup" scene. That was the last time he prevented her from touching the scar/face, right? IMO, he stopped her this time, because her touch would've undone him as always... and he was worried it would soften his resolve.)

And finally to the utterly betrayed and shattered look in her eyes when confronting him about CR...

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Each of those developments feel very well-earned. Unlike her almost-tantrums in Ep14-16, I feel her pain here EVERY step of the way. By the way, I am not hating on WS/GJ at all in this episode either (In fact, I love who he has become too; I will talk about it below), but I feel HS is finally back to being a true character, rather than just a shell of it. I know there are many in these forums that feel HS is too naive or asking for too much or whatever in this episode... but this is the most logical progression this character can go through after the mess of Ep14-17... and she herself is the most logical she has ever been in a very very long time!

I fully stand by her decision to leave the palace. WS/GJ needs to feel her void keenly so that he can do soul-searching of his own; the palace life is killing her inside out and if there's any salvation she can find in that world, it is not in GJ anymore by this point. Yes, I am saddened and angered by all the opportunities lost in the previous episode. But I hope her character find some peace and happiness... because HS/Go Ha-jin, you have suffered enough at the hands of this writer.

2) How Gwangjong turned "evil"

Now, here comes the fun part.

(Read inside spoiler tag for criticism of drama regarding justice)

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If there's anything this drama is lacking, it's justice... some sweet sweet justice. Time has been the only one that has been giving us any semblance of justice in this story. Taejo, the bad husband, the bad lover and the bad father? Well, he died of old age and yes, he yearned for Lady Oh at the end and it's oh so sad. But that's it; no other punishment for his tacit cruelty towards So and his mismanagement of many wives. Wang Yo, the puppet turned borderline-interesting villain? The guy who murdered his own innocent brother in cold blood? Gone. Died just on his own. Yes, he was barking mad by the end, but he didn't get to suffer a poetic end in the hands of someone out for revenge/justice. And sigh... what a waste.

So, to say the truth, I wasn't sure whether we're getting any satisfaction in this front. Before Ep18, the baddies left are: Queen Yoo, Yeon-hwa, Wang Wook and Wang Won. (Jung is just a stupid kid, so as much as I want to strangle him half the time, he's no evil.) I couldn't imagine WS killing his own mother; I know he's marrying YH so I'm not sure how the show can deliver any good justice regarding her. So I was expecting WWon to fry this episode, and then WWook to fry the next episode. But I'm not sure how well the show will handle either one of those frying, because WS has been saying over and over again about no more bloodshed between brothers.

Okay, first, let me talk about my disappointment: the WWon part. Aish!!! He deserves so much worse than just that grilling he received. I hope we're gonna see some more of what happened to him, but I think the show will disappoint me on this front.

But OMG!!! How I love the part with Queen Yoo! (Okay, just to warn you, I have serious mommy issues, so I'm sorry if I come across as insensitive.) The punishment for a woman who wouldn't look upon his face? She has to die looking at that face, with only him as her company. Part of me really really wants his scar to be more visible, and that to be the last thing she sees. But I guess, it might have made WS/GJ look weaker, I don't know. But as it is, it's already brilliant. Especially because they employed the flashback of his blood-splattered face of Ep4 soooo well. BAM! The impact.

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(Another side note: Who says we need guyliner to make someone evil? LJG is wearing the least eyeliner in this scene compared to his earlier WS scenes but look at that! A good actor doesn't just use sweat and tears for his acting..... snort and drool too! Gosh, he always gives it ALL to his performance, doesn't he?)

And from the direction the plot is heading, the punishment of YH and WWook will be very nicely intertwined, I am hoping. I will talk about YH character in the next section.

But most importantly, it's about how they handled the "turning into evil" that earned my applause. Because there's no real "turning" here. All the pain in WS has always been there, waiting to break through. The state of the nation, the court and its politics when he comes into power is a total mess. The nation has been festering; "evil" has been prospering and the innocents have been suffering.

Thus, as a newly crowned King, a house-cleaning --- a total purge, really --- becomes absolutely necessary. And that's all he's been doing. He can hardly be called ruthless at this point. Meeting with each individual, letting them know he knows of their crimes/their weakened position..... if they have something to offer in return --- something to bolster his power, something to prove their allegiance, something to trade --- they will have a position in his reign. Anyone else has to step aside. And of course, swift punishment to anyone who has ever committed crimes against the throne.

It seems, unlike HS, the timeskip has made WS a lot wiser in terms of politics. And I am happy to see some political intrigue bleed into this drama, because we've gotten so precious little of it in the previous 17 episodes.

Of course, there's still a chance that GJ will spiral totally out of control and become truly evil. But actually, it's no longer necessary. Now, he can just remain a King who is strict and swift in his dealings with his subjects --- one that is just and efficient, yet merciless against betrayal. (I suspect, that's who the real Gwangjong in history truly is.)

Why is truly-evil GJ not necessary anymore? Because the part about HS leaving him has nothing to do with him becoming evil. She is leaving him because even though she can forgive and understand him (and maybe even support the general direction of his decisions), she cannot stomach the reality of what is necessary to be King. And as I've said, she doesn't have a place in his life no longer, because she cannot fulfill the role of a cunning woman..... a worthy partner and right-hand woman to a monarch.

So now I understand how they butchered HS's character in Ep14-17. (At least, this is how I take it to be.) They did it to eliminate the need to make WS/GJ truly ruthless. In order to salvage WS/GJ's character, they had to weaken HS's character. It is so so sad to see it happen. But I guess, given how well the show handled the progression of both characters in Ep18, I am willing to roll with it, my feminist side be darned.

3) How to deal with Yeon-hwa

(Read inside spoiler tag for my defense for Yeon-hwa)

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We know that nothing visibly bad will happen to Yeon-hwa. According to history, she will be Queen and will provide him with an heir and spares. So we were all preparing ourselves for the inevitable... YH's rise to power.

Firstly, I'd like to say, as a person who loves strong female characters, I don't hate YH. I feel that she'd make a worthy Queen, given how wise she is to political maneuvering in court. I feel many people pile hate on her unjustly, despite the fact that all she has done is to ensure her own safety and her place in the palace. Just as WS hated being sent away, YH does too. And as a woman, being married off as a hostage is a fate that she has to fear each day. So what do you expect her to do? Curl up into a ball and cry? I, for one, love her strength. Her cunning in Ep10-11 is absolutely brilliant. She never gives up, no matter the obstacle. If there's a female character to admire in this show, she's definitely one of them!

I'm not saying she's worthy of WS's love. She and WS were not a good match. But she and GJ though? Together, they can be quite a pair to be reckon with. (Inside spoiler tag: Look at their mirroring cunning expressions... Took my breath away.)

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But well, she might be a worthy queen in my eyes, but she's also responsible for destroying the epic love of WS and HS (Actually, I feel as if they were doing the destroying all on their own, but I am sure many romantic viewers of this drama would disagree with me). So of course, her marrying WS/GJ and having a happily-ever-after is not something even I can stomach.

This is where I feel the show has outdone itself!

First, why marry Yeon-hwa? I thought they would go the cheap way of "Well, HS is scarred, GJ can't marry her, end of story, move on". But no, we get to see GJ steadfast in his decision to marry HS; after all, he himself has a scar! This allows for a true and noble sacrifice from HS's part... because here, she is given a CHOICE. Theoretically, she can still marry him, but she sets him free of that promise so that he can make a good political marriage and be a strong King. Do I like that it's necessary? No. But you have to admit, the script has given much more respect to this to-marry-or-not-to-marry saga than I expected. And I'm so happy for it.

Next, consummation of marriage. Well, they will have kids. So of course, that must happen too. I was SCREAMING on top of my lungs (at office) at my screen when GJ came in drunk and approached YH. I was worried that the show is going to pull another cheap "Oh he didn't know what he was doing, he was drunk" stunt. THANK GOD!!! They didn't.

The true genius of the script comes from how GJ is using not just YH's present situation but her whole future as a mere transaction. Betray her brother, throw away her birth family, be his puppet... in return, he'd let her have his heir. There's no security in her future either way -- he can take more wives and the war of the concubines is almost inevitable whether her son is made crown prince or not. Yet, she has to throw away her present attachments for that uncertain promise of a future. That move wouldn't have been so masterfully cruel if YH doesn't love WS/GJ. But in her own way, she does! GJ seems intent on reminding her each and every day that his heart is something she can't own or even hope to sway.

All in all, I hope GJ wreaks havoc on WW and YH's whole family..... but I hope the script will give a good conspiracy to base that on. (Let's say, if the old poisoning plot of Mu/WS can be unearthed, but I guess that's too much to ask?) Because I do wish YH to feel the raw pain of the transaction. Her family being destroyed by her own hands. And getting to see WW on a frying pan..... Well, that thought alone has whet my appetite for the rest of the week.

After this episode, (I know many people here might disagree but) I am very satisfied with where this drama has headed. We now have an inkling of where each character will end up, and given the countless F-ups that the plot has made from episodes 14-17, the position each character stands after this episode is the best we could hope for each of them. Really, I am so pleasantly surprised by how much clean-up the plot has made in just Ep18.

I hope the show retains this quality and this pacing (well, I hope they can do better, but don't ask for miracles) in the next two episodes. So, show, please don't let me down.

wow!!!

Edited October 26, 2016 by LyraYoo

moonlover399993 · October 26, 2016

8 minutes ago, junejungki said:

That part when WS cried when his mother died. I have to look away. I cannot take it. It was too much for me. You see, how good his acting was.

@junejungki I have seen GIF of that, but not full episode. Recently I can't look at WS when he's furious with his smile or when he's bawling his eyes out. Same, I look away, I can't, it really hurts and tugs your heart painfully. Fictional or not, LGJ is DAEBAK, and that makes the whole experience either awesome to watch or you just have to look away. But recently, there are moments MANILY with WS or WS/HS I really can't watch because it hurts TOO MUCH.

antiherofans · October 26, 2016

1 hour ago, zi4r said:

BTS is adorable! I guess they realize the fans need some healing after the intense episode last night.

I haven't watched the episode with subs, even though (unlike Ep17) it was a visual-enough episode for me to almost fully understand what's going on. My US VPN is down (they promise to get it back up in the next 6 hours) and my China server is also going through maintenance, so I can't watch DF or Youku versions. DarkSmurfSubs aren't out yet either. So, for now, with the limited understanding of the episode, let me give a general opinion on its quality.....

IMO, Ep18 is very well done despite all the limitations/difficulties imposed on it by the plot setup to this point and the large ground it had to cover, given we have only 2 episodes left. Yes, they could've tightened up the editing a bit, but (well, I might be being extra-forgiving, after the abysmal editing quality of the previous episode but) they did it well enough for the editing to not detract from the plot and the tension it delivered. And deliver, it did!

To talk about the quality of the episode, I need to address the difficulties the episode had to overcome, and how I felt it sufficiently (actually, quite brilliantly at some points) overcame them. It is, IMO, one of the strongest episodes, because many things could have gone so wrong and yet they managed to make it work. Here's what I mean:

1) How they handled the progression of Hae Soo's character

(If you want to read only the part where I praise Ep18, go here.)

I have given harsh criticism to how Hae Soo's character was painted in Ep14-16... and I felt it was intentional, and not a f-up by the writer or IU's acting. I was right. And I am so saddened by what the kind of role this drama has made this character fulfill.

Ep 1-8: HS was an innocent, fish-out-of-water, trusting and giving girl. That made her a cute damsel-in-distress for her scenes with Wang So, and I had no problem with that. Because what else can we expect out of a girl trapped in a 16yo body due to a timeslip?

Ep 9-10: She had to deal with the visions. Yes, she fumbled along the way but at least for me, held herself admirably well, against the onslaught of confusion and fear imposed by the visions.

Ep 11-12: Here comes the breaking of her spirit. So much tragedy, so much heartbreak, so much pain..... yet, her quiet resilience and strength of character took my breath away and made me fall in love with her. There she was, a crippled laundry-maid, and yet she kept her heart true to the man she loved (WW) and also strove to protect the man who is madly in love with her (WS).

Ep 13: The true calling has come, for her time in Goryeo. I believed that she would play a pivotal role in the war over the throne. And there she was. This tiny figure, limping away..... yet so strong, making all the right decisions, taking on the weight of responsibilities no one in her station should have to bear.

Look at her character trajectory... Beautiful, isn't it? We were witnessing the true making of a person. So how did I expect that character to go from there? Up and up, of course... at least until GJ becomes King and breaks her heart, I thought. Here's what I was hoping for:

I was hoping that WS's love would begin to heal her... that she would become trusting and loving very few people, yet doing so more fully to those few people; that she would become wisened and hardened by time, and yet still retaining a warm heart... one that she only allows WS (and maybe a few close friends) to see. In later episodes, I had hopes that she could become his strength, not just as a lover but as a partner. Because being a courtlady means having the eyes-and-ears in every nook and crevice of the palace. Can you imagine how much of an asset that would have been to WS (let's say, as Chae-ryung was to WWon)? It's not that I wanted WS to use her; but I was hoping she would still play a bigger role than just a dumb girlfriend to WS. Because someone as burdened as WS needs a strong partner... and the character trajectory of Ep1-13 proves that HS could have become that!

Just imagine..... HS managing to uncover some conspiracy in the palace, and helping WS protect Mu... how nice it could have been! Then, when GJ becomes King, I was hoping she could remain his confidante --- yes, he would marry YH, but HS would remain to be his strength, his love, his core of existence..... until one day, he goes too far and she cannot bear to embrace the man he has become. Then, the heartbreak would come for both parties, then HS dies/disappears, then modern era...... THE END.

Tragic or happy ending, it wouldn't have mattered much to me. If Hae Soo and Wang So have fully lived their time together, then it would have been worth it. I would have embraced that plot fully.

But rather than that, what did we get? We didn't get to see HS's "healing" because of the timeskip. Rather than being as highlighted, she has become the total opposite. A hardened woman that seems to be especially tough in judging WS. A woman efficient in menial labour of tending to the King (mercury poisoning non-withstanding) and the princes, but seems to have no other purpose or role in the palace life. (She, BA and WH could have been great source of strength and support for WS, but all three seem to have lost interest in serving any purpose other than to just exist.) And worse, once the events turn turbulent in Ep14, she was totally unprepared for it all, and she seems to not know at all where she stands in WS's life. (Well, she's right in feeling that she matters little in practical sense to him, because as I've said, she doesn't play any essential role in his life at all!)

So, since she doesn't have any other role in Ep14-17 than to be WS's love (and to make her visions not come true), her focus was entirely on that. And amidst all the death and tragedy and conspiracies, she becomes this woman focused on his feelings towards her, and nothing else. And oh how I LOATHED that. How dare they!!! They built a female character with such potential to be strong and wise and resilient... and then destroyed her mid-series and made her into this pathetic woman who just waits around for her man, one whose insecurities and emotions overrule logic at every turn.

Now that I've watched Ep18, I realize this is exactly how cruelly the writer wishes to paint this story. HS has never mattered much as a courtlady... and without those responsibilities, only as the King's lover, she matters even less now. Unlike YH or Queen Yoo or Woo-hee or even Chae-ryung, in the courtly game, she is utterly useless. Even if she could become a Concubine/Queen, she would still be just an accessory, the pretty girl on the King's arms. She has direct access to the King's ears, but the headstrong WS has never truly respected her enough when it comes to her opinions (Oh, he loves her and respects her feelings; but her thoughts and her advice? Not much.) and the full-efficiency mode GJ respects it even less.

This makes for a very logical break in their relationship. There was no need for a real turning point. (Even CR's punishment and death was not really a turning point, because the relationship between HS and GJ (unlike that of HS and WS) has never really worked. Since he stepped on the throne, she already has no place in his life, even though she undoubtedly still occupies almost the whole of his heart.

tl;dr; start reading here: So why do I feel Ep18 has done well about this character? HS's handling of marriage to YH, WS's treatment of Queen Yoo & Jung, punishment & death of CR..... She handled them all with the maturity that I find so refreshing to see.

From her loving reassurance when they discussed the marriage...

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To her offer of comfort and acceptance despite her own misgivings about his treatment of Jung...

(Just a side note here: This mirrors the first "makeup" scene. That was the last time he prevented her from touching the scar/face, right? IMO, he stopped her this time, because her touch would've undone him as always... and he was worried it would soften his resolve.)

And finally to the utterly betrayed and shattered look in her eyes when confronting him about CR...

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Each of those developments feel very well-earned. Unlike her almost-tantrums in Ep14-16, I feel her pain here EVERY step of the way. By the way, I am not hating on WS/GJ at all in this episode either (In fact, I love who he has become too; I will talk about it below), but I feel HS is finally back to being a true character, rather than just a shell of it. I know there are many in these forums that feel HS is too naive or asking for too much or whatever in this episode... but this is the most logical progression this character can go through after the mess of Ep14-17... and she herself is the most logical she has ever been in a very very long time!

I fully stand by her decision to leave the palace. WS/GJ needs to feel her void keenly so that he can do soul-searching of his own; the palace life is killing her inside out and if there's any salvation she can find in that world, it is not in GJ anymore by this point. Yes, I am saddened and angered by all the opportunities lost in the previous episode. But I hope her character find some peace and happiness... because HS/Go Ha-jin, you have suffered enough at the hands of this writer.

2) How Gwangjong turned "evil"

Now, here comes the fun part. (If you want to get to the meat, go here.)

If there's anything this drama is lacking, it's justice... some sweet sweet justice. Time has been the only one that has been giving us any semblance of justice in this story. Taejo, the bad husband, the bad lover and the bad father? Well, he died of old age and yes, he yearned for Lady Oh at the end and it's oh so sad. But that's it; no other punishment for his tacit cruelty towards So and his mismanagement of many wives. Wang Yo, the puppet turned borderline-interesting villain? The guy who murdered his own innocent brother in cold blood? Gone. Died just on his own. Yes, he was barking mad by the end, but he didn't get to suffer a poetic end in the hands of someone out for revenge/justice. And sigh... what a waste.

So, to say the truth, I wasn't sure whether we're getting any satisfaction in this front. Before Ep18, the baddies left are: Queen Yoo, Yeon-hwa, Wang Wook and Wang Won. (Jung is just a stupid kid, so as much as I want to strangle him half the time, he's no evil.) I couldn't imagine WS killing his own mother; I know he's marrying YH so I'm not sure how the show can deliver any good justice regarding her. So I was expecting WWon to fry this episode, and then WWook to fry the next episode. But I'm not sure how well the show will handle either one of those frying, because WS has been saying over and over again about no more bloodshed between brothers.

Okay, first, let me talk about my disappointment: the WWon part. Aish!!! He deserves so much worse than just that grilling he received. I hope we're gonna see some more of what happened to him, but I think the show will disappoint me on this front.

But OMG!!! How I love the part with Queen Yoo! (Okay, just to warn you, I have serious mommy issues, so I'm sorry if I come across as insensitive.) The punishment for a woman who wouldn't look upon his face? She has to die looking at that face, with only him as her company. Part of me really really wants his scar to be more visible, and that to be the last thing she sees. But I guess, it might have made WS/GJ look weaker, I don't know. But as it is, it's already brilliant. Especially because they employed the flashback of his blood-splattered face of Ep4 soooo well. BAM! The impact.

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(Another side note: Who says we need guyliner to make someone evil? LJG is wearing the least eyeliner in this scene compared to his earlier WS scenes but look at that! A good actor doesn't just use sweat and tears for his acting..... snort and drool too! Gosh, he always gives it ALL to his performance, doesn't he?)

And from the direction the plot is heading, the punishment of YH and WWook will be very nicely intertwined, I am hoping. I will talk about YH character in the next section.

tl;dr; start reading here: But most importantly, it's about how they handled the "turning into evil" that earned my applause. Because there's no real "turning" here. All the pain in WS has always been there, waiting to break through. The state of the nation, the court and its politics when he comes into power is a total mess. The nation has been festering; "evil" has been prospering and the innocents have been suffering.

Thus, as a newly crowned King, a house-cleaning --- a total purge, really --- becomes absolutely necessary. And that's all he's been doing. He can hardly be called ruthless at this point. Meeting with each individual, letting them know he knows of their crimes/their weakened position..... if they have something to offer in return --- something to bolster his power, something to prove their allegiance, something to trade --- they will have a position in his reign. Anyone else has to step aside. And of course, swift punishment to anyone who has ever committed crimes against the throne.

It seems, unlike HS, the timeskip has made WS a lot wiser in terms of politics. And I am happy to see some political intrigue bleed into this drama, because we've gotten so precious little of it in the previous 17 episodes.

Of course, there's still a chance that GJ will spiral totally out of control and become truly evil. But actually, it's no longer necessary. Now, he can just remain a King who is strict and swift in his dealings with his subjects --- one that is just and efficient, yet merciless against betrayal. (I suspect, that's who the real Gwangjong in history truly is.)

Why is truly-evil GJ not necessary anymore? Because the part about HS leaving him has nothing to do with him becoming evil. She is leaving him because even though she can forgive and understand him (and maybe even support the general direction of his decisions), she cannot stomach the reality of what is necessary to be King. And as I've said, she doesn't have a place in his life no longer, because she cannot fulfill the role of a cunning woman..... a worthy partner and right-hand woman to a monarch.

So now I understand how they butchered HS's character in Ep14-17. (At least, this is how I take it to be.) They did it to eliminate the need to make WS/GJ truly ruthless. In order to salvage WS/GJ's character, they had to weaken HS's character. It is so so sad to see it happen. But I guess, given how well the show handled the progression of both characters in Ep18, I am willing to roll with it, my feminist side be darned.

3) How to deal with Yeon-hwa

(If you want to get to the meat, go here.)

We know that nothing visibly bad will happen to Yeon-hwa. According to history, she will be Queen and will provide him with an heir and spares. So we were all preparing ourselves for the inevitable... YH's rise to power.

Firstly, I'd like to say, as a person who loves strong female characters, I don't hate YH. I feel that she'd make a worthy Queen, given how wise she is to political maneuvering in court. I feel many people pile hate on her unjustly, despite the fact that all she has done is to ensure her own safety and her place in the palace. Just as WS hated being sent away, YH does too. And as a woman, being married off as a hostage is a fate that she has to fear each day. So what do you expect her to do? Curl up into a ball and cry? I, for one, love her strength. Her cunning in Ep10-11 is absolutely brilliant. She never gives up, no matter the obstacle. If there's a female character to admire in this show, she's definitely one of them!

I'm not saying she's worthy of WS's love. She and WS were not a good match. But she and GJ though? Together, they can be quite a pair to be reckon with.

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(Inside spoiler tag: Look at their mirroring cunning expressions... Took my breath away.)

But well, she might be a worthy queen in my eyes, but she's also responsible for destroying the epic love of WS and HS (Actually, I feel as if they were doing the destroying all on their own, but I am sure many romantic viewers of this drama would disagree with me). So of course, her marrying WS/GJ and having a happily-ever-after is not something even I can stomach.

tl;dr; start reading here: This is where I feel the show has outdone itself!

First, why marry Yeon-hwa? I thought they would go the cheap way of "Well, HS is scarred, GJ can't marry her, end of story, move on". But no, we get to see GJ steadfast in his decision to marry HS; after all, he himself has a scar! This allows for a true and noble sacrifice from HS's part... because here, she is given a CHOICE. Theoretically, she can still marry him, but she sets him free of that promise so that he can make a good political marriage and be a strong King. Do I like that it's necessary? No. But you have to admit, the script has given much more respect to this to-marry-or-not-to-marry saga than I expected. And I'm so happy for it.

Next, consummation of marriage. Well, they will have kids. So of course, that must happen too. I was SCREAMING on top of my lungs (at office) at my screen when GJ came in drunk and approached YH. I was worried that the show is going to pull another cheap "Oh he didn't know what he was doing, he was drunk" stunt. THANK GOD!!! They didn't.

The true genius of the script comes from how GJ is using not just YH's present situation but her whole future as a mere transaction. Betray her brother, throw away her birth family, be his puppet... in return, he'd let her have his heir. There's no security in her future either way -- he can take more wives and the war of the concubines is almost inevitable whether her son is made crown prince or not. Yet, she has to throw away her present attachments for that uncertain promise of a future. That move wouldn't have been so masterfully cruel if YH doesn't love WS/GJ. But in her own way, she does! GJ seems intent on reminding her each and every day that his heart is something she can't own or even hope to sway.

All in all, I hope GJ wreaks havoc on WW and YH's whole family..... but I hope the script will give a good conspiracy to base that on. (Let's say, if the old poisoning plot of Mu/WS can be unearthed, but I guess that's too much to ask?) Because I do wish YH to feel the raw pain of the transaction. Her family being destroyed by her own hands. And getting to see WW on a frying pan..... Well, that thought alone has whet my appetite for the rest of the week.

After this episode, (I know many people here might disagree but) I am very satisfied with where this drama has headed. We now have an inkling of where each character will end up, and given the countless F-ups that the plot has made from episodes 14-17, the position each character stands after this episode is the best we could hope for each of them. Really, I am so pleasantly surprised by how much clean-up the plot has made in just Ep18.

I hope the show retains this quality and this pacing (well, I hope they can do better, but don't ask for miracles) in the next two episodes. So, show, please don't let me down.

Wow, you are amazing. I agree with you.

Hae Soo has no role in WS life anymore because she already done her part. Put Wang So on the throne.

Now she need to go home. For me, right now, Hae Soo is A Trophy Wife. Boring and lonely life.

I have no problem Wang So turn into Gwangjong and seeking revenge. His revenge towards his mother is the best for me.

Yeon Hwa is a queen material. I am okay with Wang So marrying her (even tho I cry watching it) but I don't want this drama to show their baby making process. They can do it later after the drama is over

Edited October 26, 2016 by LyraYoo
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kdramawriter · October 26, 2016

49 minutes ago, bebebisous33 said:

I agree with @40somethingahjumma that Hae Soo loves Wang So as much as So loves her. First of all, Hae Soo was really angry about CR's death, but as soon as she hears his explanations, she calms down and accepts his touch later. Sure, she adds that CR's only crime was to be born as a slave. Yet, she is not mad any more, just hurt.

The reason of her distance to Wang So is her guilt again. CR could spy on her because Hae Soo trusted her. She believed in CR and never thought that CR was able to betray her. For Hae Soo, she feels again responsible and guilty. She should have realised that. Sure, she is mad at So for CR's punishment... Hae Soo comes from the 21st century and her sense of justice is different. Striking is that CR wrote a letter in order to explain herself. And by reading the letter, she realises how wrong she was. Even if CR was a slave, she was never forced to do it. She did it out of love for Won. The bitter irony are CR's words:

It is as if CR was saying that Hae Soo would do anything for the loved one too!! If she had been CR, she would have done the same. Her words have a terrible impact on her. Yet CR is really wrong: Hae Soo valued family and friendship a lot but not to the extent to kill and manipulate people.

Yes to all of this. CR is the reason that Hae Su is leaving the palace, not because she's choosing CR over Wang So. Not in the least. CR's letter made her realize the TRUE powerlessness of being a woman in the palace who is not a queen. Chae Ryung was a slave, she would have be punished if she refused the orders of Won. Was it fair for Chae Ryung slowly murder the king, of course not. But is it fair to ask Chae Ryung to give up her own life because she feels like the King's life is worth more? I think that's a morally ambiguous category. I think she would have been punished by Won if she refused to do his bidding. Maybe beatings. Maybe death. He's a prince and he can do whatever he wants.

When Hae Su says CR was just a girl in love, she's not excusing Chae Ryung. She's reflecting on herself because HS is JUST A GIRL IN LOVE. Look at the monstrosity that CR created, just because Hae Su hasn't said so on camera, doesn't mean she's not reflecting on all the events that have happened while in Goryeo (THIS IS the reason she has all those King death flashbacks with Jimong).

Evangeline Yang · October 26, 2016

2 hours ago, riuenu said:

well said, and I totally agree with you @Evangeline Yang, C version was too draggy, but at least, we can see more time of the OTP together..K version is far too short...we lost our Wang So, in return, we got King Gwangjong..these 2 episode turn So character to Gwangjong like flipping table..I still cant accept the change of that..

I didnt backread, and I dare not backread...cause I know I barely survive while watching episode 18...many may blame Soo, why he wanted to leave the palace with Jung, and leave So, but....that what I tweeted last night when I watch episode 18, our So had long gone..and I missed him dearly...

4

Yup, I only find the C version in the middle very draggy but I really enjoyed the OTP before the steaming of Yutan's part because that steaming really turns me off. For days I can't see steam buns the same anymore some more her eyes... Ewwww can remember she was steamed with eyes open. Anyway, at least OTP part, the female lead learn to let go a bit and tell the male lead she was from future before she went away when the 4th was very hurt and all these was a good build up. Very emotional and can feel how dysfunctional the whole relationship was. But this K-drama? Director killed our OTP. I think actually they wanna showed how So changed the moment Eun died but those stupid time jump has wasted all these build up. Like from the time So told Soo he wanted the throne and then the live recap someone said the next moment is 1 yr already. What happened in that one yr. Even before that when Eun died and So leave the capital, that 2 years what really happened?

In C version, they at least explained what happened during the time jump. But K version cut everything. Awwwww Director and Editor, you are on my hit list! If this drama was by KBS, somehow I feel the outcome will be diff. Just compare it with another hit pre-production drama which SBS rejected and ended in KBS. I was trying so hard to argue with my friend about SBS and KBS and he has not watch ML and he told me not his cup of tea but he was comparing that drama with ML. I was so upset. Truly upset. =( Until I told him I feel so stupid because the end of the day he insulted our Joongi as well because he trying to compare that preproduction drama rating with ML rating and I really wish I can slay him like how Wang So slew the monks. =( End of ranting.

junejungki · October 26, 2016

1 minute ago, moonlover399993 said:

@junejungki I have seen GIF of that, but not full episode. Recently I can't look at WS when he's furious with his smile or when he's bawling his eyes out. Same, I look away, I can't, it really hurts and tugs your heart painfully. Fictional or not, LGJ is DAEBAK, and that makes the whole experience either awesome to watch or you just have to look away. But recently, there are moments MANILY with WS or WS/HS I really can't watch because it hurts TOO MUCH.

I posted a message on his IG. Telling him to take responsibility for all the heart ache and mental breakdown fans are facing right now. Give each of us a big hug. hahahahaha!!!!

moonlover399993 · October 26, 2016

Just now, junejungki said:

I posted a message on his IG. Telling him to take responsibility for all the heart ache and mental breakdown fans are facing right now. Give each of us a big hug. hahahahaha!!!!

OMG! HAHA! I would really want to see that message, haha. Wonder if he'll answer by showing a pic or a spoiler of something happy??

kdramawriter · October 26, 2016

1 hour ago, zi4r said:

Spoiler

BTS is adorable! I guess they realize the fans need some healing after the intense episode last night.

I haven't watched the episode with subs, even though (unlike Ep17) it was a visual-enough episode for me to almost fully understand what's going on. My US VPN is down (they promise to get it back up in the next 6 hours) and my China server is also going through maintenance, so I can't watch DF or Youku versions. DarkSmurfSubs aren't out yet either. So, for now, with the limited understanding of the episode, let me give a general opinion on its quality.....

IMO, Ep18 is very well done despite all the limitations/difficulties imposed on it by the plot setup to this point and the large ground it had to cover, given we have only 2 episodes left. Yes, they could've tightened up the editing a bit, but (well, I might be being extra-forgiving, after the abysmal editing quality of the previous episode but) they did it well enough for the editing to not detract from the plot and the tension it delivered. And deliver, it did!

To talk about the quality of the episode, I need to address the difficulties the episode had to overcome, and how I felt it sufficiently (actually, quite brilliantly at some points) overcame them. It is, IMO, one of the strongest episodes, because many things could have gone so wrong and yet they managed to make it work. Here's what I mean:

1) How they handled the progression of Hae Soo's character

I have given harsh criticism to how Hae Soo's character was painted in Ep14-16... and I felt it was intentional, and not a f-up by the writer or IU's acting. I was right. And I am so saddened by what the kind of role this drama has made this character fulfill.

(Read inside spoiler tag for character trajectory from Ep1-13):

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Ep 1-8: HS was an innocent, fish-out-of-water, trusting and giving girl. That made her a cute damsel-in-distress for her scenes with Wang So, and I had no problem with that. Because what else can we expect out of a girl trapped in a 16yo body due to a timeslip?

Ep 9-10: She had to deal with the visions. Yes, she fumbled along the way but at least for me, held herself admirably well, against the onslaught of confusion and fear imposed by the visions.

Ep 11-12: Here comes the breaking of her spirit. So much tragedy, so much heartbreak, so much pain..... yet, her quiet resilience and strength of character took my breath away and made me fall in love with her. There she was, a crippled laundry-maid, and yet she kept her heart true to the man she loved (WW) and also strove to protect the man who is madly in love with her (WS).

Ep 13: The true calling has come, for her time in Goryeo. I believed that she would play a pivotal role in the war over the throne. And there she was. This tiny figure, limping away..... yet so strong, making all the right decisions, taking on the weight of responsibilities no one in her station should have to bear.

Look at her character trajectory... Beautiful, isn't it? We were witnessing the true making of a person. So how did I expect that character to go from there? Up and up, of course... at least until GJ becomes King and breaks her heart, I thought. Here's what I was hoping for (inside spoiler tag):

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I was hoping that WS's love would begin to heal her... that she would become trusting and loving very few people, yet doing so more fully to those few people; that she would become wisened and hardened by time, and yet still retaining a warm heart... one that she only allows WS (and maybe a few close friends) to see. In later episodes, I had hopes that she could become his strength, not just as a lover but as a partner. Because being a courtlady means having the eyes-and-ears in every nook and crevice of the palace. Can you imagine how much of an asset that would have been to WS (let's say, as Chae-ryung was to WWon)? It's not that I wanted WS to use her; but I was hoping she would still play a bigger role than just a dumb girlfriend to WS. Because someone as burdened as WS needs a strong partner... and the character trajectory of Ep1-13 proves that HS could have become that!

Just imagine..... HS managing to uncover some conspiracy in the palace, and helping WS protect Mu... how nice it could have been! Then, when GJ becomes King, I was hoping she could remain his confidante --- yes, he would marry YH, but HS would remain to be his strength, his love, his core of existence..... until one day, he goes too far and she cannot bear to embrace the man he has become. Then, the heartbreak would come for both parties, then HS dies/disappears, then modern era...... THE END.

Tragic or happy ending, it wouldn't have mattered much to me. If Hae Soo and Wang So have fully lived their time together, then it would have been worth it. I would have embraced that plot fully.

But rather than that, what did we get? We didn't get to see HS's "healing" because of the timeskip. Rather than as I have hoped, she has become the total opposite: (inside spoiler tag)

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A hardened woman that seems to be especially suspicious of and tough in judging WS. A woman efficient in menial labour of tending to the King (mercury poisoning non-withstanding) and the princes, but seems to have no other purpose or role in the palace life. (She, BA and WH could have been great source of strength and support for WS, but all three seem to have lost interest in serving any purpose other than to just exist.) And worse, once the events turn turbulent in Ep14, she was totally unprepared for it all, and she seems to not know at all where she stands in WS's life. (Well, she's right in feeling that she matters little in practical sense to him, because as I've said, she doesn't play any essential role in his life at all!)

So, since she doesn't have any other role in Ep14-17 than to be WS's love (and to make her visions not come true), her focus was entirely on that. And amidst all the death and tragedy and conspiracies, she becomes this woman focused on his feelings towards her, and nothing else. And oh how I LOATHED that. How dare they!!! They built a female character with such potential to be strong and wise and resilient... and then destroyed her mid-series and made her into this pathetic woman who just waits around for her man, one whose insecurities and emotions overrule logic at every turn.

Now that I've watched Ep18, I realize this is exactly how cruelly the writer wishes to paint this story. HS has never mattered much as a courtlady... and without those responsibilities, only as the King's lover, she matters even less now. Unlike YH or Queen Yoo or Woo-hee or even Chae-ryung, in the courtly game, she is utterly useless. Even if she could become a Concubine/Queen, she would still be just an accessory, the pretty girl on the King's arms. She has direct access to the King's ears, but the headstrong WS has never truly respected her enough when it comes to her opinions (Oh, he loves her and respects her feelings; but her thoughts and her advice? Not much.) and the full-efficiency-mode GJ respects it even less.

This makes for a very logical break in their relationship. There was no need for a real turning point. (Even CR's punishment and death was not really a turning point, because the relationship between HS and GJ (unlike that of HS and WS) has never really worked. Since he stepped on the throne, she already has no place in his life, even though she undoubtedly still occupies almost the whole of his heart.

So why do I feel Ep18 has done well about this character? HS's handling of WS's marriage to YH, his treatment of Queen Yoo & Jung, punishment & death of CR..... She handled them all with the maturity that I find so refreshing to see.

From her loving reassurance when they discussed the marriage...

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To her offer of comfort and acceptance despite her own misgivings about his treatment of Jung...

(Just a side note here: This mirrors the first "makeup" scene. That was the last time he prevented her from touching the scar/face, right? IMO, he stopped her this time, because her touch would've undone him as always... and he was worried it would soften his resolve.)

And finally to the utterly betrayed and shattered look in her eyes when confronting him about CR...

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Each of those developments feels very well-earned. Unlike her almost-tantrums in Ep14-16, I feel her pain here EVERY step of the way. By the way, I am not hating on WS/GJ at all in this episode either (In fact, I love who he has become too; I will talk about it below), but I feel HS is finally back to being a true character, rather than just a shell of it. I know there are many in this thread that feel HS is too naive or asking for too much or whatever in this episode... but this is the most logical progression this character can go through after the mess of Ep14-17... and she herself is the most logical she has ever been in a very very long time!

I fully stand by her decision to leave the palace. WS/GJ needs to feel her void keenly so that he can do soul-searching of his own; the palace life is killing her inside out, and if there's any salvation she can find in that world, it is not in GJ anymore by this point. Yes, I am saddened and angered by all the opportunities lost in the previous episodes. But I hope her character find some peace and happiness... because HS/Go Ha-jin, you have suffered enough at the hands of this writer.

2) How Gwangjong turned "evil"

Now, here comes the fun part.

(Read inside spoiler tag for criticism of this drama regarding justice)

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If there's anything this drama is lacking, it's justice... some sweet sweet justice. Time has been the only one that has been giving us any semblance of justice in this story. Taejo, the bad husband, the bad lover and the bad father? Well, he died of old age and yes, he yearned for Lady Oh at the end and it's oh so sad. But that's it; no other punishment for his tacit cruelty towards So and his mismanagement of many wives. Wang Yo, the puppet turned borderline-interesting villain? The guy who murdered his own innocent brother in cold blood? Gone. Died just on his own. Yes, he was barking mad by the end, but he didn't get to suffer a poetic end in the hands of someone out for revenge/justice. And sigh... what a waste.

So, to say the truth, I wasn't sure whether we're getting any satisfaction in this front. Before Ep18, the baddies left are: Queen Yoo, Yeon-hwa, Wang Wook and Wang Won. (Jung is just a stupid kid, so as much as I want to strangle him half the time, he's no evil.) I couldn't imagine WS killing his own mother; I know he's marrying YH so I'm not sure how the show can deliver any good justice regarding her. So I was expecting WWon to fry this episode, and then WWook to fry the next episode. But I'm not sure how well the show will handle either one of those frying, because WS has been saying over and over again about no more bloodshed between brothers.

Okay, first, let me talk about my disappointment: the WWon part. Aish!!! He deserves so much worse than just that grilling he received. I hope we're gonna see some more of what happened to him, but I think the show will disappoint me on this front.

But OMG!!! How I love the part with Queen Yoo! (Okay, just to warn you, I have serious mommy issues, so I'm sorry if I come across as insensitive.) The punishment for a woman who wouldn't look upon his face? She has to die looking at that face, with only him as her company. Part of me really really wants his scar to be more visible, and that to be the last thing she sees. But I guess, it might have made WS/GJ look weaker, I don't know. But as it is, it's already brilliant. Especially because they employed the flashback of his blood-splattered face of Ep4 soooo well. BAM! The impact.

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(Another side note: Who says we need guyliner to make someone evil? LJG is wearing the least eyeliner in this scene compared to his earlier WS scenes but look at that! A good actor doesn't just use sweat and tears for his acting..... snort and drool too! Gosh, he always gives it ALL to his performance, doesn't he?)

And from the direction the plot is heading, the punishment of YH and WWook will be very nicely intertwined, I am hoping. I will talk about YH character in the next section.

But most importantly, it's about how they handled the "turning into evil" that earned my applause. Because there's no real "turning" here. All the pain in WS has always been there, waiting to break through. The state of the nation, the court and its politics when he comes into power is a total mess. The nation has been festering; "evil" has been prospering and the innocents have been suffering.

Thus, as a newly crowned King, a house-cleaning --- a total purge, really --- becomes absolutely necessary. And that's all he's been doing. He can hardly be called ruthless at this point. Meeting with each individual, letting them know he knows of their crimes/their weakened position..... if they have something to offer in return --- something to bolster his power, something to prove their allegiance, something to trade --- they will have a position in his reign. Anyone else has to step aside. And of course, swift punishment to anyone who has ever committed crimes against the throne.

It seems, unlike HS, the timeskip has made WS a lot wiser in terms of politics. And I am happy to see some political intrigue bleed into this drama, because we've gotten so precious little of it in the previous 17 episodes.

Of course, there's still a chance that GJ will spiral totally out of control and become truly evil. But actually, it's no longer necessary. Now, he can just remain a King who is strict and swift in his dealings with his subjects --- one that is just and efficient, yet merciless against betrayal. (I suspect, that's who the real Gwangjong in history truly is.)

Why is truly-evil GJ not necessary anymore? Because the part about HS leaving him has nothing to do with him becoming evil. She is leaving him because even though she can forgive and understand him (and maybe even support the general direction of his decisions), she cannot stomach the reality of what is necessary to be King. And as I've said, she doesn't have a place in his life any longer, because she cannot fulfill the role of a cunning woman..... a worthy partner and right-hand woman to a monarch.

So now I understand how they butchered HS's character in Ep14-17. (At least, this is how I take it to be.) They did it to eliminate the need to make WS/GJ truly ruthless. In order to salvage WS/GJ's character, they had to weaken HS's character. It is so so sad to see it happen. But I guess, given how well the show handled the progression of both characters in Ep18, I am willing to roll with it, my feminist side be darned.

3) How to deal with Yeon-hwa

(Read inside spoiler tag for my defense for Yeon-hwa)

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We know that nothing visibly bad will happen to Yeon-hwa. According to history, she will be Queen and will provide him with an heir and spares. So we were all preparing ourselves for the inevitable... YH's rise to power.

Firstly, I'd like to say, as a person who loves strong female characters, I don't hate YH. I feel that she'd make a worthy Queen, given how wise she is to political maneuvering in court. I feel many people pile hate on her unjustly, despite the fact that all she has done is to ensure her own safety and her place in the palace. Just as WS hated being sent away, YH does too. And as a woman, being married off as a hostage is a fate that she has to fear each day. So what do you expect her to do? Curl up into a ball and cry? I, for one, love her strength. Her cunning in Ep10-11 is absolutely brilliant. She never gives up, no matter the obstacle. If there's a female character to admire in this show, she's definitely one of them!

I'm not saying she's worthy of WS's love. She and WS were not a good match. But she and GJ though? Together, they can be quite a pair to be reckon with. (Inside spoiler tag: Look at their mirroring cunning expressions... Took my breath away.)

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But well, she might be a worthy queen in my eyes, but she's also responsible for destroying the epic love of WS and HS (Actually, I feel as if they were doing the destroying all on their own, but I am sure many romantic viewers of this drama would disagree with me). So of course, her marrying WS/GJ and having a happily-ever-after is not something even I can stomach.

This is where I feel the show has outdone itself!

First, why marry Yeon-hwa? I thought they would go the cheap way of "Well, HS is scarred, GJ can't marry her, end of story, move on". But no, we get to see GJ steadfast in his decision to marry HS; after all, he himself has a scar! This allows for a true and noble sacrifice from HS's part... because here, she is given a CHOICE. Theoretically, she can still marry him, but she sets him free of that promise so that he can make a good political marriage and be a strong King. Do I like that it's necessary? No. But you have to admit, the script has given much more respect to this to-marry-or-not-to-marry saga than we expected. And I'm so happy for it.

Next, consummation of marriage. Well, they will have kids. So of course, that must happen too. I was SCREAMING on top of my lungs (while in office) at my screen when GJ came in drunk and approached YH. I was worried that the show is going to pull another cheap "Oh he didn't know what he was doing, he was drunk" stunt. THANK GOD!!! They didn't.

The true genius of the script comes from how GJ is using not just YH's present situation but her whole future as a mere transaction. Betray her brother, throw away her birth family, be his puppet... in return, he'd let her have his heir. There's no security in her future either way -- he can take more wives and the war of the concubines is almost inevitable whether her son is made crown prince or not. Yet, she has to throw away her present attachments for that uncertain promise of a future. That move wouldn't have been so masterfully cruel if YH doesn't love WS/GJ. But in her own way, she does! GJ seems intent on reminding her each and every day that his heart is something she can't own or even hope to sway.

All in all, I hope GJ wreaks havoc on WW and YH's whole family..... but I hope the script will give a good conspiracy to base that on. (Let's say, if the old poisoning plot of Mu/WS can be unearthed, but I guess that's too much to ask?) Because I do wish YH to feel the raw pain of that transaction. Her family being destroyed by her own hands. And getting to see WW on a frying pan..... Well, that thought alone has whet my appetite for the rest of the week.

After this episode, (I know many people here might disagree but) I am very satisfied with where this drama has headed. We now have an inkling of where each character will end up, and given the countless F-ups that the plot has made from episodes 14-17, the position each character stands after this episode is the best we could hope for each of them. Really, I am so pleasantly surprised by how much clean-up the plot has made in just Ep18.

I hope the show retains this quality and this pacing (well, I hope they can do better, but don't ask for miracles) in the next two episodes. So, show, please don't let me down.

This is required reading y'all. Everything here is perfectly broken down. Thank you!!

Edited October 26, 2016 by LyraYoo

lilac_alex · October 26, 2016

5 hours ago, antiherofans said:

Good. Even tho this drama has been a pure torture and endless pain for me, I can't help but excited to see WS's wrath. And also his regret after HS death.

I am in to deep, there is no turning back

Bring the pain to the max

MLSHR, you turn me into a sadist

yes that is true! its almost the end of the line so let's brace ourselves with the inevitable.

I haven't been this much invested in a kdrama in a long time (the first time was 3 years ago). I'm intrigue with the experience which I know will only come a few in between.

junejungki · October 26, 2016

2 minutes ago, moonlover399993 said:

OMG! HAHA! I would really want to see that message, haha. Wonder if he'll answer by showing a pic or a spoiler of something happy??

I dont think he will read my message but I posted it anyway. After several minutes my message drown in thousand other messages

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[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

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