[Drama 2015] Answer Me 1988 응답하라 1988

[beldaran]

The boys are back  And they've seen a lot of sun....

http://tenasia.hankyung.com/archives/855902

http://star.mt.co.kr/stview.php?no=2016020217044145906

And, actually, yes... reading crap tons of articles pertaining to the series and its actors = my coping mechanism... because there's no way I'm over it. 

I really hope the DVD/BD comes out soon.. because "Mama want". :x

[iloveenglishsub]

14 hours ago, hushhh said:

Warning: This post will discuss characters as if they are flawed human being created by a writer who is interested in showing fully human characters and not perfect gods.

This is my interpretation.  I don’t expect every- or anyone to agree with me.  I actually expect there to be a fair amount of disagreement, but to quote a former professor, "Learning takes place in the space of community and disagreement" And we certainly have both on this thread.

......

Although she loves him, Ra Omma is continually dissatisfied with her husband.  All the mother complain, but Ra Omma has what the other’s lack. She has the money Omma Lee needs and the life-partner Sun-Young lacks, yet she is dissatisfied. She is sexually unfulfilled by her husband and unhappy with his slow adjustment to their (relatively) newly found wealth. The scene where Ra Omma berates her husband for failing to meet her expectation by buying a knock-off instead of a brand name jacket is particularly painful to watch.  It made me think of the scene later in the series when he explains that even though Mi-Ran did not go to college she was one of the smartest people he knew.

I see the dynamics of the Kim-Ra marriage as problematic although most people seem to see it as successful. I feel awful for Kim Sung-Kyun who is emotionally needy and lives within an environment where two of his close family members are emotionally withholding and the third is otherwise engaged.

Sorry I have to cut your post, chingu. Like you said, we can agree to disagree. About the scene where Ra Miran ranted on her husband for buying fake branded outfit, there is another scene that connects to this scene, right? Kim sajang didn't say anything to defend himself. Miran omma told him to just be friend with good people, not a friend that scam their own friend. Then she told him about one of Kim sajang's friend who was so kind when Kim family was still poor. That friend visited and gave her money to buy good things for the kids. He wasn't rich himself. Miran omma was really thankful for that friend. The only thing Kim sajang said when he heard the story was, "It's that friend", meaning it's the friend that helped them and now that Kim sajang is well off, he wants to help. This scene intertwined with Sung appa when he gave money to a poor woman, when he himself was short of money. Maybe you view this part of their story as a way to show how smart Miran is (her knowing a brand is fake) and about her temper. But as we viewers can have different insights about this, I would say the insight I got from this scene is about kindness and compassion. One may not have a lot of money, but one can still choose the option to help even though there is another option to just ignore others in need because "we don't have money too". Sung appa is shown to be in the similar position as Kim sajang's friend in the past. That friend helped others in the past, now the one whom he helped (which is Kim family) return the favor. Sung family also cleared their debt some episodes later, right, because the person who was indebted to Sung appa and omma felt he had to pay the debt no matter what. Sorry I have to mention about Sung family in this, because I see the situations as a big picture.

Miran omma becoming quiet after Kim sajang told her it was the old friend that sold him fake brand, I take that as a way she is surprised to know the truth, felt bad because she didn't know it was a person she had received kindness from, and what else. But we might experience that kind of thing too, right? We got pissed off and angry because we don't know the truth behind one's action. Once my grandma scolded my dad because he still insisted on using an old motorbike and old car that made annoying sound, and told him to just buy a new one. My dad said nothing, but later on granny found out that he was saving up for emergency cases, because granny was often sick and had to be hospitalized. Her reaction is similar to miran omma, actually  miran omma/my granny didn't say anything but I'm sure they were thankful that Kim sajang/my dad had done a good deed, and felt sorry because they didn't know thus the scolding. 

About the dynamics of relationship between Kim sajang-miran omma, I actually feel that they developed to be better throughout the episodes. Yes madam cheetah stays as stern and Kim sajang as goofy. But still they give and take. Some people might wonder how can people with such personalities live together, but to me Kim appa & omma potrayed it very well. One may not express love through words all the time, but they are not "cold" or unexpressive at all times. But for me who grow up watching my grandma (she is a lot like ra miran, not expressive. Kkk), it's her preparing meals everyday, waiting for granddad to eat together (miran omma also waits for her husband to start eating), taking care of my granddad's belongings, knowing his habits and favorites, attending to him when he was sick, that also count as expression of love. In the first episode it was so awkward to see Miran hugging JH *I cringed* because she is not an expressive person, but I can see in the next episodes she gradually started to open up more about things, like admitting she can't read Latin, crying when JB is conscious from surgery, jumping with glee when JH is home.

Since what you posted about Kim appa and omma is based on their story in ep 3 (if I'm not mistaken you're doing a rewatch?), I agree that the same scene can be interpreted in different ways. What I post here is my perspective on Kim scenes I ep 3 as well. In the next episodes, it would be nice if you can see how kim sajang, miran omma, and their children grow to understand more about each other. She worried for Kim appa when he injured his hip and was gloomy on his birthday and stayed by his side when he realized it was because of his late mother. He stayed by her side during the pain of menopause. They stayed by each other in that one-room house for years. Do save that for later episodes. And also do enjoy madam cheetah's performance in National Singing Contest again. It was one of my favorite scene, so hilarious. My post turned out to be long but I hope you don't mind.

[packmule3]

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

 

For @kodomonojikan 

Question 6: If DS isn’t being motherly to TK when she took care of TK in China [Episode 9], can we say instead that she’s only being sisterly to him? 
Answer: No. 

In Episode 8: One Warm Word, TK’s tight-lipped smile said it all. He wouldn't tolerate it if she acted sisterly to him. He didn’t appreciate it when DS teased him about being his noona and patted his head.

Translation by @fangurling123 [Thank you, dear!]: “Stay put and just wait for noona.”

credit: @nearsea 

Note the title of this episode. One Warm Word. Warm = kind, solicitous, caring, concerned. 
Although DS uttered this whole sentence in kindness, the word “noona” was the “one warm word” that left TK cold. He didn’t like it.  

Now watch how the scriptwriter cleverly reversed their situation when DS arrived at the baduk center. 

Despite being a “noona”, DS acted like a young child, making silly faces on the phone booth window while she waited for TK’s arrival. [Note: the director would NOT have Hyeri kiss that phonebooth just for kicks. lol]  

And the “donsaeng” TK was the one treated like the baduk-god by his hero-worshippers. lol. DS’ sphere of influence as a “noona” was comically puny compared to TK’s sphere of influence as a baduk player.  But even here, she didn’t really grasp the full extent of his preeminence in the world scene; that would happen in the next episode on the trip to China. 

Spoiler

When TK reached DS who was waiting at the bottom of the stairs, he stroke HER hair. That was his subtle way of returning the favor when she stroke his hair and told him to stay put and wait for “noona”.  He was indicating here that SHE did a good job by staying put and waiting for “donsaeng Taekkie”. Pat pat her hair. 

See that? She found him cute in the beginning of the episode, now HE found her cute. This was his way of expressing his fondness – by touch. From this time on, he would be the one initiating this head stroke. Remember in Episode 19? When he came out of the elevator in that hotel China and saw her waiting for him? He also stroke her hair:  Pat pat. Good job for waiting for Taekkie. lol

Spoiler

Although this head stroking was such a small gesture, two things happened here.

First, TK was subtly asserting his dominance over her. He didn’t relish the idea of being in a noona-donsaeng relationship. This runs true to his character. He also didn’t like to be in a hyung-donsaeng relationship with SW. In Episode 17, when they were figuring out the new dynamics of a blended family, TK told SW that he was more mature than him so he wouldn’t call him Hyung and SW didn’t contest that. 

Second, in allowing him to stroke her hair like that, DS showed that she trusted him. The fact she allowed it to happen in full view of many people is significant, too. It showed their close relationship.

You see, the head is a vulnerable part of the body. If a male acquaintance or a male stranger reaches out to touch a girl's hair or her head, the girl’s first reaction is to duck. Then she’ll consider the guy suspicious, forward, creepy, weird or even stalkerish. It’s just not done. In many cultures, women consider head-stroking an intimate gesture. It’s reserved for men they’re closed to or have affection for. 

 

Now, let’s look at how other characters in the story approached this head-touching thing.

If I were SW, I would find this situation encouraging. From Episode 8. 
 

Spoiler

See that? Bora didn’t flinch. SW raised his hand over her head to gently brush away snow on her hair, and she didn’t recoil. SW lightly stroke her hair three times before she told him to stop. And I believe she told him to stop because she didn’t want the fuss, NOT because she was disgusted by his gesture.  

Why do I believe that? 

Because she walked back to thank him. lol. She walked away, then came back to return his jacket. She explained that she didn’t want to be involved with him, so she’d pretend this whole thing never happened. In other words, they’d return to status quo.

But look what she did afterwards: she reached out and thumped his arm to thank him. She didn't stroke him gently, like SW would have done. She whacked his arm. lol.  That extra, familiar, touch was totally unnecessary. She meant it soften her rejection. Translated, it meant that she DID care enough not to hurt his feelings.  

If I were SW then I would be encouraged that she wasn’t grossed out by my proposal. Her rejection wasn’t final. She could still see me as a man. Given time, proximity and perseverance, this rejection could be reversed. And it was. 

Now, this writer does things in pairs. Yin-yang. In this same Episode 8, there was another incident of hair stroking for comparison: JH and DS. 
 

Spoiler

lol. See that? She disliked the way he ruffled her hair. He was tousling her hair hard. It wasn’t gentle at all because he was exasperated with her dimwittedness.   

And when he smooshed her face like this, she didn’t appreciate it either. After he walked away, she shook her hair. Like, "what the heck??!!"  lol. By no stretch of imagination could this scene be considered “lovey-dovey” for her.  She didn’t like it. 
 

Spoiler

The last hair stroke here would be DR and DS. I find this amusing because this is the only relationship that didn’t change from start to finish. In Episode 2, he was already tugging her hair and in Episode 15, he was still doing the same attention-seeking act. Each time it resulted in the same consequence. She chased after him with the intent to karate chop. At this point in their relationship, it was safe to say that they had friend-zoned each other. Silly DongRyong.  
 

Spoiler

So there you go. Four different instances of hair-touching in the series. 

 

Question 7: What about bias, packmule3?
Answer: Everybody has biases; many people are just defensive about theirs. lol.

For instance, my bias is DS, and I’m extremely annoyed when people dismiss her affections for TK as motherly or sisterly.  For me, it screams of double standard.

Take Episode 8 again. JH arrived at McDonalds to DS’ astonishment and horror. He took the orders of her friends but he scolded DS for ordering a lot of food. This was similar to Episode 3 when he also wondered how much she ate at that dukbokki place because he paid for it. He thought she was ordering more food that she could eat. Dramabeans called his behavior “a boyfriend” thing. Here’s how it was described in dramabeans:

“Jung-hwan is actually nice to Deok-sun’s friends, and buys them all whatever they want to eat. Of course, to Deok-sun he’s his usual nitpicky self, and snaps at her to only order what she can eat instead of always leaving food half-eaten. It comes out sounding very oppa/boyfriendy, not that either of them picks up on it.”

See that? That’s the bias of dramabeans: JH.

….which is perfectly fine FOR ME. Again, dramabeans does a superb job of recapping. But we simply have to remember that she has biases, too. So if you read her recaps without any filters, it's bound to happen: her bias will eventually become your bias. 

The way I see it, DS did exactly the same thing while waiting for TK outside the Baduk center. In that scene outside the Baduk center, DS scolded TK for forgetting his bag and ordered him to retrieve it from inside the building. She also vetoed an offer from one of the juniors to get the bag for TK. She nagged him to hurry up and get his bag. TK simply scampered off with a smile.

Now, I would consider this behavior as very “girlfriendly”-ish.  lol. That was why the people at the baduk center were flabbergasted. It wasn’t simply because some chit of a girl was ordering their baduk-god TK around. It was because THIS particular girl was ordering him around – this girl whose hair he had just affectionately stroked. 

See that? If dramabeans could report JH’s behavior in Mcdonalds as oppa/boyfriendly, then I could surely describe DS’ behavior outside the Baduk center as noona/girlfriendly.  It’s two sides of the same coin. 

So yes, I think biases are fine... as long as you know they’re there. 

@shooastrid, baduk?

[hushhh]

On 2/2/2016 at 9:05 AM, iloveenglishsubs said:

Sorry I have to cut your post, chingu. Like you said, we can agree to disagree. 1)About the scene where Ra Miran ranted on her husband for buying fake branded outfit, there is another scene that connects to this scene, right? Kim sajang didn't say anything to defend himself. Miran omma told him to just be friend with good people, not a friend that scam their own friend. Then she told him about one of Kim sajang's friend who was so kind when Kim family was still poor. That friend visited and gave her money to buy good things for the kids. He wasn't rich himself. Miran omma was really thankful for that friend. The only thing Kim sajang said when he heard the story was, "It's that friend", meaning it's the friend that helped them and now that Kim sajang is well off, he wants to help. 2) This scene intertwined with Sung appa when he gave money to a poor woman, when he himself was short of money.  3) Maybe you view this part of their story as a way to show how smart Miran is (her knowing a brand is fake) and about her temper. 4) But as we viewers can have different insights about this, I would say the insight I got from this scene is about kindness and compassion. One may not have a lot of money, but one can still choose the option to help even though there is another option to just ignore others in need because "we don't have money too". Sung appa is shown to be in the similar position as Kim sajang's friend in the past. That friend helped others in the past, now the one whom he helped (which is Kim family) return the favor. Sung family also cleared their debt some episodes later, right, because the person who was indebted to Sung appa and omma felt he had to pay the debt no matter what. Sorry I have to mention about Sung family in this, because I see the situations as a big picture.

5) Miran omma becoming quiet after Kim sajang told her it was the old friend that sold him fake brand, I take that as a way she is surprised to know the truth, felt bad because she didn't know it was a person she had received kindness from, and what else. 6) But we might experience that kind of thing too, right? We got pissed off and angry because we don't know the truth behind one's action. Once my grandma scolded my dad because he still insisted on using an old motorbike and old car that made annoying sound, and told him to just buy a new one. My dad said nothing, but later on granny found out that he was saving up for emergency cases, because granny was often sick and had to be hospitalized. Her reaction is similar to miran omma, actually  miran omma/my granny didn't say anything but I'm sure they were thankful that Kim sajang/my dad had done a good deed, and felt sorry because they didn't know thus the scolding. 

7)About the dynamics of relationship between Kim sajang-miran omma, I actually feel that they developed to be better throughout the episodes. Yes madam cheetah stays as stern and Kim sajang as goofy. But still they give and take. Some people might wonder how can people with such personalities live together, but to me Kim appa & omma potrayed it very well. One may not express love through words all the time, but they are not "cold" or unexpressive at all times. But for me who grow up watching my grandma (she is a lot like ra miran, not expressive. Kkk), it's her preparing meals everyday, waiting for granddad to eat together (miran omma also waits for her husband to start eating), taking care of my granddad's belongings, knowing his habits and favorites, attending to him when he was sick, that also count as expression of love. In the first episode it was so awkward to see Miran hugging JH *I cringed* because she is not an expressive person, but I can see in the next episodes she gradually started to open up more about things, like admitting she can't read Latin, crying when JB is conscious from surgery, jumping with glee when JH is home.

Since what you posted about Kim appa and omma is based on their story in ep 3 (if I'm not mistaken you're doing a rewatch?), I agree that the same scene can be interpreted in different ways. What I post here is my perspective on Kim scenes I ep 3 as well. In the next episodes, it would be nice if you can see how kim sajang, miran omma, and their children grow to understand more about each other. She worried for Kim appa when he injured his hip and was gloomy on his birthday and stayed by his side when he realized it was because of his late mother. He stayed by her side during the pain of menopause. They stayed by each other in that one-room house for years. Do save that for later episodes. And also do enjoy madam cheetah's performance in National Singing Contest again. It was one of my favorite scene, so hilarious. My post turned out to be long but I hope you don't mind.

I have no issues with you cutting my post-cut away.  I'll cut yours for focus.

A marriage between two people is (hopefully) about what they want and can tolerate.  MiRan and SaJang seems to want each other.  To my mind they the couple looks miserable to me, with neither having their needs satisfied. But they seem happy to be with each other. I certainly wouldn't interfere with their marriage, even if it were possible (which it isn't).  It's their choice (well the writer's really) and it seems to satisfy them (the writer).  However as happy as they are together that marriage is just something I wouldn't want for myself or people I care for.  I also have friends and family in the real world who have thriving marriages that wouldn't work for me either. So it's different strokes for different folks.

In no way am I suggesting the writer is wrong, made a mistake, or needs to change a pairing because it is something I wouldn't want for myself. I'n not suggesting that the relationship ruined the drama for me. I think it add an interesting aspect to the question why do relationships work.  Also, I accept that this is the relationship the writer wants to explore and I'm happy to see it explored. There are tons of different relationships I find enjoyable or instructive on screen that I wouldn't want to encounter in real life. (I'm talking about you my dear Secret Love) 

1) My point exactly.  Mi-Ran assumed the worst about SaJang and just berated him to no end. This is fictional drama, but is relatively realistic so I keep referring to the social research on what makes for a good relationship and that relationship strikes me as unhealthy--again per real world research. 

https://ncsu.edu/ffci/publications/2007/v12-n1-2007-spring/wiley/fa-11-wiley.php

Making some internal cuts for space.

Avoidance or withdrawal. Avoidance or withdrawal occurs when one partner shows they are unwilling to start or continue an interaction. This pattern is also called “stonewalling” (Gottman and Levenson 1992) and occurs when one partner just “checks out” of the conflict while the other remains or wants to remain engaged. Sometimes it happens when the avoider is feeling overwhelmed or flooded.  This is KSJ’s pattern.

Negative interpretations. Negative interpretation patterns often occur when couples believe the worst instead of the best about each other (Fincham, Bradbury, and Scott, 1990; Holtzworth-Munroe and Jacobson 1985). Such couples are definitely not “keeping it positive.” They may engage in a harsh start-up bid based on a negative interpretation or assumption. This is Mi-Ran’s behavior.

Put downs. At times, negative interpretations can devolve into verbalized insults, such as if Jim had said “You did not take out the trash because you are lazy.” Now, he has not only made a negative assumption about the partner’s character, but he has also verbalized it into a full-fledged insult. Contemptuous put-downs are destructive to emotional connection and are linked to the failure of relationships (Gottman et al. 1998). These can be plain or indirect but often involve ridicule or sarcasm. Just like “sticks and stones,” words can hurt. Couples can avoid this by taking a moment to calm down and think, and trying to reframe the situation before they allow themselves to say things they may later regret. Again Mi-Ran.

2) I thought that the conflation of KSJ and SDL situation. LIH nags SDL about his behavior, and it makes sense because they are in more of a dire straits, but I never got the sense that LIH did not like SDL, I just felt that she was frustrated with him.

3) I never said I thought Mi-Ran was smart.  Her husband thinks she is smart. BTW I am not saying she is not a good person.  In someways she is like JH, emotional intelligence lags behind.  For instance when LIH came to borrow money for DS class trip, Mi-Ran missed the LIH's need and in her generosity accidentally made it impossible for LIH to ask for help.  However after [reconsideration off screen] she figures out that LIH needs and takes care of it.  So I don't think that she bad person, I just think she isn't good for her husband emotional health.

4) True.  THat is what the drama is doing, but to my eyes it simultaneously highlight aspects of Mi-Ran SaJang I find unpleasant.

5) Yes when Mi-Ran realized she was in the wrong she became silent.  She did not apologize for misjudging KSJ, she did not apologize for her assumptions, she did not tell him he did the right thing.  She felt bad.  How does her feeling bad help SaJang feel better. SaJang is in a marriage where he is happy to be seriously injured because it means he gets his wife's attention. Yikes

6) I have no response to your real world experience--I'm sure your family understood each other well.

7) I look forward to seeing KSJ needs being met with an open heart.  I know that the family rallies around Mi-Ran in the latter part of the series.

I am paying more attention to the parents as I watch.

Mi-Ran didn't interest much the first time around. The only parents that had my attention was Appa Choi, SW's Mom and Appa Kim.

[fionnoula]

12 hours ago, carolinedl said:

@JCM I agree with you. Nicely said

I think people have different ways of showing their love. Some of you keep analyzing the ways the characters love and which one seems to be better, but I think that is definitely going against the show. The show is about showing the different types of love, without judging.

I keep thinking back to Papa Sung and his daughters. Bora is rough, does not show her love. DS is sweet, shows her love and Papa Sung responds to her openly. Does that mean Bora loves her dad less? Does it mean Papa Sung loves Bora less? Like we have seen in the last episode, not at all. It's just that people have different ways of showing they care and love is also about accepting that.

 

 

Lovely perspective

I love all the characters and personality of the ssangmundong families.

They portrait a realistic human natures and behaviours that can represent so many of us,

Nobody is perfect, Nobody is without flaws.

But I, also I think most of audiences can also see that each one of them have beautiful and good sides/traits to themselves which we admire amd can related to, which is also why the show got so much love in Korea.

I hope I will be seeing the kims in the next Reply (we already have the sung for 3 installment already ). They have tight bond, they are funny and interesting to watch.

Miran eomma I love your kind heart, generousity and compassion for your neighbourhood. I love your no nonsense attitude in your home. The way you are keeping up with your husband silly and (at times not) funny jokes all the time. Sometime I want to joint you in smacking Kim appa. Tke kind of jokes he spew ...really .... You are the QUEEN miran

Kim appa, you sure know you're wife love your antics (but please, not all the time lol ), she was missing them when you sulk because you dissapointed in your children that one time. I love how high you think of your wife and how much you love her when you have that long man to man talk with jungbong. I bet you'll get really upset hearing all these outsider theories about the love of your life, the queen of your heart lol

I want to have sons that have the kind of understanding and bond like jungbong and junghwan. They love each other so much. they understand each other and they support each other, no question asked.

I imagine Jungbong will be quite a pain in the richard simmons for his wife, what with the way he obssesed over things, but I think his most obsessed possesion is his wife (after all the years that gone by, she is still the one), so it's good .

Junghwan, darling....you have mature over time, the daughter that your mother never have. As time goes, I see that you are keep being better and better in expressing your love and appreciation toward your loved one and people around you. I have faith in you junghwan. You'll find a lovely lady that can get you, love you as the way you are and you'll love her just as much. There's so much more behind that prickly facade of yours.

The Kim Men, when they love, they love hard.

All in all Lovely...lovely....lovely...

PS : shout out to all the Kuch Kuch Hota Hai Lovers out there !!!! High Five Girls

[carolinedl]

Today's R1988/Immortal Songs 2's song is:

Come back to me again by Byeon Jin Seob; covered by Sandeul.

 

 

 

[chickfactor]

11 hours ago, carolinedl said:

@JCM I agree with you. Nicely said

I think people have different ways of showing their love. Some of you keep analyzing the ways the characters love and which one seems to be better, but I think that is definitely going against the show. The show is about showing the different types of love, without judging.

I keep thinking back to Papa Sung and his daughters. Bora is rough, does not show her love. DS is sweet, shows her love and Papa Sung responds to her openly. Does that mean Bora loves her dad less? Does it mean Papa Sung loves Bora less? Like we have seen in the last episode, not at all. It's just that people have different ways of showing they care and love is also about accepting that.

 

 

I agree. All the couples had their own dysfunctions. The Sung couple fought bitterly in the beginning. He called her stupid and uneducated. She called him stupid and threw ink on him. They loved each other, but being poor makes people angry and they took it out on each other. No couple is happy all the time. They didn't shy away from showing us this reality.

The Kim couple definitely had their hardships. They were poor, and their oldest son was very sick. Things were pretty rough - she confessed that she thought about killing the whole family with charcoal gas, and just end the suffering. Yeah, things got pretty dark for them at some point.

He's a bit silly and likes to joke around, and she has no time or patience for it. But I thought they loved each other a lot and were a great couple.

[carolinedl]

Also, Papa Kim loves how strong his wife is. I guess they complement each other. I love how in this show, people still love each other despite their flaws. They love the person all the more because they know how unperfect they are, but it is sthg they have accepted. That's love: not wanting the other to change but accepting them as they are...

I also agree @chickfactor - I love how every realtions is shown to have ups and downs, difficult moments to go through. Relations are like that. You get angry, you get annoyed and then you get over it. You fight and then you compromise. (BTW I love your profile photo... Makes me hungry now....)

R1988 is indeed a very realist show. And that is why it is so popular in Korean, and even abroad (look at us! ).

[JCM]

11 hours ago, hushhh said:

But they are presented happy together. Well, he is presented as happy to be married to her, prizing her as his wife, and being supportive. She less so of him. However I just wouldn't want to spend time with both of them at once. 

On the "not wanting to spend time with both of them at once" - Yeah, I'm right there with you, it would be absolutely maddening and draining from an outsider's perspective.

But, I don't know if I would agree that she that she is presented as being less happy to be with him than him with her. I go back to how she expresses herself - through actions instead of words and with the fact that one can't always take her words and tone at face value. For instance, when he injures his hip. In the hospital that's so busy that he has to wait - she's there, obviously distressed and ready to snap at the staff when they insinuate that they can't prepare the OR for the deputy chief. . . and she takes care of him as he recovers. Yes, she does it in her typically gruff way - but my point is, if she wasn't absolutely in love with him and happy to be with him, she wouldn't put in the effort that she does. She'll never say it - but she's happiest when she's needed. We saw that after her trip and she came back and everything was done. JH noticed how sad she was and setup all those situations that she had to fix. Now she absolutely nagged and berated Jung Bong as she fixed his hands (I can't believe you! How old are you that you can't do this properly?!). She nagged and berated  Sung-Kyun for breaking the briquettes (Way to go! You can't do anything right! I can't believe you!) And nagged and berated Jung Hwan for not being able to find his shorts (They're right here! You couldn't even find this!?). None of you can do anything properly!!! She's verbally expressing irritation, distaste, incredulity that they are unable do to the simplest things and puts off a very "bothered" vibe that she has do to everything because they are unable to do so. . . . but her mood immediately improves and now she's ready to have dumplings and soju (that she had rejected before) If that's what you really want to do, I guess.

She's actually really happy and content that they need her and she can do things for them again - but she'd never express that. That's not how she operates. If she can't do anything for them, or if she feels that she's not needed, that takes away her ability to express how much she cares because doing is how she expresses those feelings instead of saying them. That's why I said that she's the kind of person that you should only worry about when she stops complaining. If she's stopped complaining, then that means she's shut down and withdrawn (like she did when she got home and saw that they had done everything). Her complaints are exaggerations and she doesn't really mean what she says.

We also have the "renewing of vows" towards the end of the series. That scene in particular, I think, shows just how much she loves him and how happy she actually is with their relationship and the life that they have built together.

 

Quote

This is fictional drama, but is relatively realistic so I keep referring to the social research on what makes for a good relationship and that relationship strikes me as unhealthy--again per real world research. 

 

Real world social research (and I say this as a social scientist - BA in Social/Cognitive Psychology/MS in Clinical Neuropsychology/Ph.D. in Human Social Behavior [a mix of Sociology and Psychology]) also comes with many caveats. One of those being that there are exceptions to every rule. Our goal is to generalize our results as wide as possible, but we paint with a wide brush and not everyone fits every trend. I'd also say that looking at research on mate selection (why do we choose who we choose) could perhaps shed some light. With this pair, we're kind of dealing with an "opposites attract" sort of approach - and that does seem to be a "common wisdom" or at least a "common trope" in story telling. And there is some research that supports this view - but that research also says that these relationships also require work and a great understanding of each other. BUT there is just as much research that supports the opposite view - "Birds of a feather flock together" The Theory of Like Attraction says that we are drawn to people of similar disposition and attitudes as ourselves (and only say we want someone different when we really want someone like ourselves). Both of these theories can't be correct - they say opposite things about what makes attraction and what makes a relationship work over the long haul. Then if we want to bring in The Social Exchange Theory of Mate Selection that basically turns relationships/mate selection into almost a "subconscious business decision" it states that when we go through the decision to be with some one we make a comparison between what we will "have to give up" from our single lives to be with this person and compare that to "what we will gain" from joining in this relationship. We then engage in a cost-benefit analysis and seek to "maximize our profits" if "that which we will gain" is greater than "that which we would have to give up" we decide to join the relationship. If that analysis comes out negative, we do not.

I go back to the whole - social research talks big picture, and explains trends in data, trends in research - but not everyone fits every trend we see in the data. 

In my previous post I argued that they compliment and complete each other - so I was making more of an opposites attract argument in their case. But one could also argue social exchange - that they gain more together than they had when apart, so it makes sense in that social cost benefit analysis for them to be together. But, I guess my overall point, is whatever the reason they choose each other and stay together - they've obviously made it work for them and, at least in my opinion, they're happy with the life they have (based on some of the things I said above).

AND we have an even bigger caveat that we have to consider in all of this. The fields of psychology and sociology are heavily weighted in a western/individual cultural bias. Collectivistic cultures operate on different norms and consider different obligations when it comes to relationships and the reasons for being in a relationship. So when attempting to apply social research cross-culturally, it's not always universal and adjustments for cultural, regional, and chronological norms (time periods - the decisions we make today would not necessarily be the same decisions for the same reasons that we would have made in the 70s for example) also may need to be made.

I'm not trying to knock social science research (it's what I've made a career of after all) because it can be extremely powerful and informative overall, but one also needs to recognize its limitations

[fnkrm]

On 2 February 2016 at 9:27 AM, hushhh said:

Warning: This post will discuss characters as if they are flawed human being created by a writer who is interested in showing fully human characters and not perfect gods.

This is my interpretation.  I don’t expect every- or anyone to agree with me.  I actually expect there to be a fair amount of disagreement, but to quote a former professor, "Learning takes place in the space of community and disagreement" And we certainly have both on this thread.

I watched Episode 3 this weekend, and seeing it knowing the end game it has been interesting to see how the writer treat a variety of couples. Episode 3 gave us the Kim family’s backstory and offered insight into Kim Appa and Ran Omma’s relationship.

@Packmule3  did a lovely analysis earlier that identified DS as Kim Appa’s spiritual daughter that I think has great merit. I would also say that Ra Omma is not only JH biological mother but JH also resembles her psychologically. In some ways the relationship between Ra Omma and Kim Appa can be seen as a projection of a possible relationship between JH and DS.  I'm not saying that this is the writer's intent, but she has laid enough information into the script to support that extrapolation.

 

Oh wow, I didn't even realised this. 

Or maybe Papa Kim have always wanted a daughter so he seek comfort in DS who is willing to entertain his jokes? 

(Since his two sons don't entertain his jokes... Honestly, I think his jokes are super funny!!!)

 

8 hours ago, packmule3 said:

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

 

For @kodomonojikan 

Question 6: If DS isn’t being motherly to TK when she took care of TK in China [Episode 9], can we say instead that she’s only being sisterly to him? 
Answer: No. 

In Episode 8: One Warm Word, TK’s tight-lipped smile said it all. He wouldn't tolerate it if she acted sisterly to him. He didn’t appreciate it when DS teased him about being his noona and patted his head.

Translation by @fangurling123 [Thank you, dear!]: “Stay put and just wait for noona.”

credit: @nearsea 

Note the title of this episode. One Warm Word. Warm = kind, solicitous, caring, concerned. 
Although DS uttered this whole sentence in kindness, the word “noona” was the “one warm word” that left TK cold. He didn’t like it.  

Now watch how the scriptwriter cleverly reversed their situation when DS arrived at the baduk center. 

Despite being a “noona”, DS acted like a young child, making silly faces on the phone booth window while she waited for TK’s arrival. [Note: the director would NOT have Hyeri kiss that phonebooth just for kicks. lol]  

And the “donsaeng” TK was the one treated like the baduk-god by his hero-worshippers. lol. DS’ sphere of influence as a “noona” was comically puny compared to TK’s sphere of influence as a baduk player.  But even here, she didn’t really grasp the full extent of his preeminence in the world scene; that would happen in the next episode on the trip to China. 

When TK reached DS who was waiting at the bottom of the stairs, he stroke HER hair. That was his subtle way of returning the favor when she stroke his hair and told him to stay put and wait for “noona”.  He was indicating here that SHE did a good job by staying put and waiting for “donsaeng Taekkie”. Pat pat her hair. 

See that? She found him cute in the beginning of the episode, now HE found her cute. This was his way of expressing his fondness – by touch. From this time on, he would be the one initiating this head stroke. Remember in Episode 19? When he came out of the elevator in that hotel China and saw her waiting for him? He also stroke her hair:  Pat pat. Good job for waiting for Taekkie. lol

Although this head stroking was such a small gesture, two things happened here.

First, TK was subtly asserting his dominance over her. He didn’t relish the idea of being in a noona-donsaeng relationship. This runs true to his character. He also didn’t like to be in a hyung-donsaeng relationship with SW. In Episode 17, when they were figuring out the new dynamics of a blended family, TK told SW that he was more mature than him so he wouldn’t call him Hyung and SW didn’t contest that. 

Second, in allowing him to stroke her hair like that, DS showed that she trusted him. The fact she allowed it to happen in full view of many people is significant, too. It showed their close relationship.

You see, the head is a vulnerable part of the body. If a male acquaintance or a male stranger reaches out to touch a girl's hair or her head, the girl’s first reaction is to duck. Then she’ll consider the guy suspicious, forward, creepy, weird or even stalkerish. It’s just not done. In many cultures, women consider head-stroking an intimate gesture. It’s reserved for men they’re closed to or have affection for. 

 

Now, let’s look at how other characters in the story approached this head-touching thing.

If I were SW, I would find this situation encouraging. From Episode 8. 
See that? Bora didn’t flinch. SW raised his hand over her head to gently brush away snow on her hair, and she didn’t recoil. SW lightly stroke her hair three times before she told him to stop. And I believe she told him to stop because she didn’t want the fuss, NOT because she was disgusted by his gesture.  

Why do I believe that? 

Because she walked back to thank him. lol. She walked away, then came back to return his jacket. She explained that she didn’t want to be involved with him, so she’d pretend this whole thing never happened. In other words, they’d return to status quo.

But look what she did afterwards: she reached out and thumped his arm to thank him. She didn't stroke him gently, like SW would have done. She whacked his arm. lol.  That extra, familiar, touch was totally unnecessary. She meant it soften her rejection. Translated, it meant that she DID care enough not to hurt his feelings.  

If I were SW then I would be encouraged that she wasn’t grossed out by my proposal. Her rejection wasn’t final. She could still see me as a man. Given time, proximity and perseverance, this rejection could be reversed. And it was. 

Now, this writer does things in pairs. Yin-yang. In this same Episode 8, there was another incident of hair stroking for comparison: JH and DS. 
lol. See that? She disliked the way he ruffled her hair. He was tousling her hair hard. It wasn’t gentle at all because he was exasperated with her dimwittedness.   

And when he smooshed her face like this, she didn’t appreciate it either. After he walked away, she shook her hair. Like, "what the heck??!!"  lol. By no stretch of imagination could this scene be considered “lovey-dovey” for her.  She didn’t like it. 
The last hair stroke here would be DR and DS. I find this amusing because this is the only relationship that didn’t change from start to finish. In Episode 2, he was already tugging her hair and in Episode 15, he was still doing the same attention-seeking act. Each time it resulted in the same consequence. She chased after him with the intent to karate chop. At this point in their relationship, it was safe to say that they had friend-zoned each other. Silly DongRyong.  
So there you go. Four different instances of hair-touching in the series. 

 

Question 7: What about bias, packmule3?
Answer: Everybody has biases; many people are just defensive about theirs. lol.

For instance, my bias is DS, and I’m extremely annoyed when people dismiss her affections for TK as motherly or sisterly.  For me, it screams of double standard.

Take Episode 8 again. JH arrived at McDonalds to DS’ astonishment and horror. He took the orders of her friends but he scolded DS for ordering a lot of food. This was similar to Episode 3 when he also wondered how much she ate at that dukbokki place because he paid for it. He thought she was ordering more food that she could eat. Dramabeans called his behavior “a boyfriend” thing. Here’s how it was described in dramabeans:

“Jung-hwan is actually nice to Deok-sun’s friends, and buys them all whatever they want to eat. Of course, to Deok-sun he’s his usual nitpicky self, and snaps at her to only order what she can eat instead of always leaving food half-eaten. It comes out sounding very oppa/boyfriendy, not that either of them picks up on it.”

See that? That’s the bias of dramabeans: JH.

….which is perfectly fine FOR ME. Again, dramabeans does a superb job of recapping. But we simply have to remember that she has biases, too. So if you read her recaps without any filters, it's bound to happen: her bias will eventually become your bias. 

The way I see it, DS did exactly the same thing while waiting for TK outside the Baduk center. In that scene outside the Baduk center, DS scolded TK for forgetting his bag and ordered him to retrieve it from inside the building. She also vetoed an offer from one of the juniors to get the bag for TK. She nagged him to hurry up and get his bag. TK simply scampered off with a smile.

Now, I would consider this behavior as very “girlfriendly”-ish.  lol. That was why the people at the baduk center were flabbergasted. It wasn’t simply because some chit of a girl was ordering their baduk-god TK around. It was because THIS particular girl was ordering him around – this girl whose hair he had just affectionately stroked. 

See that? If dramabeans could report JH’s behavior in Mcdonalds as oppa/boyfriendly, then I could surely describe DS’ behavior outside the Baduk center as noona/girlfriendly.  It’s two sides of the same coin. 

So yes, I think biases are fine... as long as you know they’re there. 

@shooastrid, baduk?

 

I think hair stroking is a subjective thing.

I wouldn't like a potential boyfriend to stroke my hair like that because my hair is my asset and I wanna look pretty to him.

However, I always let my brother to stroke my hair. It gives me comfort (or some sort). 

 

I think that is why some viewers sees this hair ruffling between DS and JH as potential lovers while Ds and TK as brother-sisterly love. 

But again... It is just a matter of perspective.

 

Side Note:

It is interesting though that the dynamics between DR and DS never change.

I was hoping for a twist: like DS falling for DR. It would be really funny!!! *laughing like a dork from just imagining the potential scenes*

[hushhh]

On 2/3/2016 at 6:26 PM, JCM said:

On the "not wanting to spend time with both of them at once" - Yeah, I'm right there with you, it would be absolutely maddening and draining from an outsider's perspective.

But, I don't know if I would agree that she that she is presented as being less happy to be with him than him with her. I go back to how she expresses herself - through actions instead of words and with the fact that once can't always take her words and tone at face value. For instance, when he injures his hip. In the hospital that's so busy that he has to wait - she's there, obviously distressed and ready to snap at the staff when they insinuate that they can't prepare the OR for the deputy chief. . . and she takes care of him as he recovers. Yes, she does it in her typically gruff way - but my point is, if she wasn't absolutely in love with him and happy to be with him, she wouldn't put in the effort that she does. She'll never say it - but she's happiest when she's needed. We saw that after her trip and she came back and everything was done. JH noticed how sad she was and setup all those situations that she had to fix. Now she absolutely nagged and berated Jung Bong as she fixed his hands (I can't believe you! How old are you that you can't do this properly?!). She nagged and berated  Sung-Kyun for breaking the briquettes (Way to go! You can't do anything right! I can't believe you!) And nagged and berated Jung Hwan for not being able to find his shorts (They're right here! You couldn't even find this!?). None of you can do anything properly!!! She's verbally expressing irritation, distaste, incredulity that they are unable do to the simplest things and puts off a very "bothered" vibe that she has do to everything because they are unable to do so. . . . but her mood immediately improves and now she's ready to have dumplings and soju (that she had rejected before) If that's what you really want to do, I guess.

She's actually really happy and content that they need her and she can do things for them again - but she'd never express that. That's not how she operates. If she can't do anything for them, or if she feels that she's not needed, that takes away her ability to express how much she cares because doing is how she expresses those feelings instead of saying them. That's why I said that she's the kind of person that you should only worry about when she stops complaining. If she's stopped complaining, then that means she's shut down and withdrawn (like she did when she got home and saw that they had done everything). Her complaints are exaggerations and she doesn't really mean what she says.

We also have the "renewing of vows" towards the end of the series. That scene in particular, I think, shows just how much she loves him and how happy she actually is with their relationship and the life that they have built together.

Real world social research (and I say this as a social scientist - MS in Clinical Neuropsychology/Ph.D. in Human Social Behavior [a mix of Sociology and Psychology]) also comes with many caveats. One of those being that there are exceptions to every rule. Our goal is to generalize our results as wide as possible, but we paint with a wide brush and not everyone fits every trend. I'd also say that looking at research on mate selection (why do we choose who we choose) could perhaps shed some light. With this pair, we're kind of dealing with an "opposites attract" sort of approach - and that does seem to be a "common wisdom" or at least a "common trope" in story telling. And there is some research that supports this view - but that research also says that these relationships also require work and a great understanding of each other. BUT there is just as much research that supports the opposite view - "Birds of a feather flock together" The Theory of Like Attraction says that we are drawn to people of similar disposition and attitudes as ourselves (and only say we want someone different when we really want someone like ourselves). Both of these theories can't be correct - they say opposite things about what makes attraction and what makes a relationship work over the long haul. Then if we want to bring in The Social Exchange Theory of Mate Selection that basically turns relationships/mate selection into almost a "subconscious business decision" it states that when we go through the decision to be with some one we make a comparison between what we will "have to give up" from our single lives to be with this person and compare that to "what we will gain" from joining in this relationship. We then engage in a cost-benefit analysis and seek to "maximize our profits" if "that which we will gain" is greater than "that which we would have to give up" we decide to join the relationship. If that analysis comes out negative, we do not.

In my previous post I argued that they compliment and complete each other - so I was making more of an opposites attract argument in their case. But one could also argue social exchange - that they gain more together than they had when apart, so it makes sense in that social cost benefit analysis for them to be together.

AND we have an even bigger caveat that we have to consider in all of this. The fields of psychology and sociology are heavily weighted in a western/individual cultural bias. Collectivistic cultures operate on different norms and consider different obligations when it comes to relationships and the reasons for being in a relationship. So when attempting to apply social research cross-culturally, it's not always universal and adjustments for cultural, regional, and chronological norms (time periods - the decisions we make today would not necessarily be the same decisions for the same reasons that we would have made in the 70s for example) also may need to be made.

I'm not trying to knock social science research (it's what I've made a career of after all) because it can be extremely powerful and informative overall, but one also needs to recognize its limitations

This post is very informative. 

Thanks for highlighting how the relationship works for that couple from your perspective.

I do believe that Omma Cheetah is much loved by the viewership, and your well written post supports the prevailing worldview.

Forums are traditionally a collection of varying life experiences, perspectives, and preferences. So long as all are treated respectfully (or ignored) perspectives can co-exists and we would expect the human being voicing them to in the real world.  

I really have nothing against RMR and KSK marriage for THEM.

 

 

It looks miserable to me, and as I have said previously, it just isn't something I'd want any part of.  As of Episode three she looks miserable and the thing that make KSJ KSJ doesn't seem appreciated. As of episode 3 that's what I see.

I totally respect your expertise and training. I bow to your greater knowledge but hold on to my own preference.  Psychology is not my life or training. However, the study I quoted wasn't about like or unlike, it was about deep communication and understanding within relationships whether it was one of like or unlike. I don't think telepathy or mis-direction are the language of love. I think they lead to pain and confusion and is frustrating for people who need affections expressed. 

I also included the cross-cultural caveat in one of my earlier post.  That is a very important issue.  Again, I have not said, am not saying, will not say their marriage doesn't work for them. But I do feel free to point out the complaints they voice about their relationship and make the observation that it is not something I'd like to be a part of or be around in the real world.

 Thanks again for the good read.

[ilmare]

8 hours ago, hushhh said:

 

3) I never said I thought Mi-Ran was smart.  Her husband thinks she is smart. BTW I am not saying she is not a good person.  In someways she is like JH, emotional intelligence lags behind.  For instance when LIH came to borrow money for DS class trip, Mi-Ran missed the LIH's need and in her generosity accidentally made it impossible for LIH to ask for help.  However after [reconsideration off screen] she figures out that LIH needs and takes care of it.  So I don't think that she bad person, I just think she isn't good for her husband emotional health.

 

sorry to cut your post.

regarding pt 3, i dun think Kim Omma missed Sung Omma's need. the 3 mums are as close as sisters and know very well what each other are going thru, past and present. Kim Omma acted in such a way (telling Sung Omma to take her time to pay back) is her way of saving Sung Omma from embarrassment (having to borrow money again). the 2 families are staying up/down stairs and i am sure they can hear each other shouting/screaming at their respective spouses/kids. in ep2 when BR was raising hell over her denim jacket, Sung Appa made a comment abt it was more entertaining to watch the Sung family than Olympics (track & field) on TV, and we could clearly hear BR voice in the background. it is possible Kim Omma overheard Sung parents' exchange.

by presenting the money as supplement allowance for DS trip(indirectly with the corns), Kim Omma answered Sung Omma's need.

the family dynamics between the families are best. the parents are parents to all the kids, open doors to one and all.

both Kim Omma and BR are poster girls for tough love.  

[JCM]

34 minutes ago, hushhh said:

This post is very informative. 

Thanks for highlighting how the relationship works for that couple from your perspective.

I do believe that Omma Cheetah is much loved by the viewership, and your well written post supports the prevailing worldview.

Forums are traditionally a collection of varying life experiences, perspectives, and preferences. So long as all are treated respectfully (or ignored) perspectives can co-exists and we would expect the human being voicing them to in the real world.  

I really have nothing against RMR and KSK marriage for THEM. It looks miserable to me, and as I have said previously, it just isn't something I'd want any part of.  As of Episode three she looks miserable and the thing that make KSJ KSJ doesn't seem appreciated. As of episode 3 that's what I see.

I totally respect your expertise and training. I bow to your greater knowledge but hold on to my own preference.  Psychology is not my life or training. However, the study I quoted wasn't about like or unlike, it was about deep communication and understanding within relationships whether it was one of like or unlike.

I also included the cross-cultural caveat in one of my earlier post.  That is a very important issue.  Again, I have not said, am not saying, will not say their marriage doesn't work for them. But I do feel free to point out the complaints they voice about their relationship and make the observation that it is not something I'd like to be a part of or be around in the real world.

Thanks again for the good read.

 

On the yellow point - I'm once again right there with you. I don't think it would work for me either. ..but likely for different reasons that you. I see quite a few traits of myself in Mi-Ran and quite frankly (while I do find him totally adorable) I can see myself getting irritated with KSK at times if I was in a relationship with him. I at least hope that I'm not as "gruff" or confrontational as Mi-Ran is and am a bit better at actually expressing and explaining what I feel lol, but I see similarities, and that's perhaps why I attempt to explain/talk about her behavior so much (perhaps a potential bias) but I tend to think that I see where she's coming from. I frequently say what I've been saying about her about myself "When I stop complaining is when you should worry about me" but I do also go the extra step to explain that things are never as bad as I may make them sound - I've just perfected ranting into an art form. ;-)

Green - True. But my point from the beginning is that they do communicate, just not in a typical way. In fact, in my view/understanding, their entire relationship is built upon a very deep understanding and ability to communicate with each other that has grown from the fact that they know each other better than they know themselves. I was generally using the research on mate selection to support/explain 1)the idea that social research is based on trends in the data and not everyone fits the trend (your post was on communication - one theory of communication in relationships and how to keep that communication healthy. My point was that they do communicate, in a way that makes sense and is healthy for them, but does not fit the trend of that particular theory of communication) and 2) examining potential explanations for why they choose each other in the first place might better help us understand why their relationship works for them. 

Blue - oh yeah, I agree with you. It would irritate me as well, in fact, it does irritate me. My parents are a lot like them (not to the same extent, but there are some similar elements). . my mom is more emotional, my dad is more logical - but he's more of the jokester - and has some difficulty in expressing how he feels in words. To an outsider looking at their relationship and the way they both frequently snipe at each other one might actually think that they're unhappy and argue all the time. But that's not the case, They've been together 40 years and are still very much in love and happy with the life they have. That's just the way they express themselves to each other - through naggy, picking at each other jokes. It drives me absolutely crazy (I'm 35 and to this day, I DREAD introducing them to anyone because I always have to explain just what the heck is going on and that no, they don't hate each other lol) even though I totally understand their relationship, where they're coming from, and how they express themselves to each other - it doesn't make it less annoying for me. ;-)

Even though we're largely taking different "sides" of viewing this particular relationship, I think in some ways we're essentially saying a lot of the same things - that it works for them, but wouldn't really work for us. The only difference in what I'm saying (at least I think) is that I think I understand how it works for them and can maybe see how they view each other and that their relationship is, while not without it's potential rough spots here and there or totally without stress is healthy for them overall.

[hushhh]

On 2/2/2016 at 9:43 AM, packmule3 said:

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS.

For @kodomonojikan 

Question 6: If DS isn’t being motherly to TK when she took care of TK in China [Episode 9], can we say instead that she’s only being sisterly to him? 
Answer: No. 

In Episode 8: One Warm Word, TK’s tight-lipped smile said it all. He wouldn't tolerate it if she acted sisterly to him. He didn’t appreciate it when DS teased him about being his noona and patted his head.

Translation by @fangurling123 [Thank you, dear!]: “Stay put and just wait for noona.”

[Image removed of DS patting Taek's head]

 

[Image removed of Taek patting DS's head]

When TK reached DS who was waiting at the bottom of the stairs, he stroke HER hair. That was his subtle way of returning the favor when she stroke his hair and told him to stay put and wait for “noona”.  He was indicating here that SHE did a good job by staying put and waiting for “donsaeng Taekkie”. Pat pat her hair. 

[Image removed of Taek patting DS's head]

See that? She found him cute in the beginning of the episode, now HE found her cute. This was his way of expressing his fondness – by touch. From this time on, he would be the one initiating this head stroke. Remember in Episode 19? When he came out of the elevator in that hotel China and saw her waiting for him? He also stroke her hair:  Pat pat. Good job for waiting for Taekkie. lol

Although this head stroking was such a small gesture, two things happened here.

First, TK was subtly asserting his dominance over her. He didn’t relish the idea of being in a noona-donsaeng relationship. This runs true to his character. He also didn’t like to be in a hyung-donsaeng relationship with SW. In Episode 17, when they were figuring out the new dynamics of a blended family, TK told SW that he was more mature than him so he wouldn’t call him Hyung and SW didn’t contest that. 

Second, in allowing him to stroke her hair like that, DS showed that she trusted him. The fact she allowed it to happen in full view of many people is significant, too. It showed their close relationship.

You see, the head is a vulnerable part of the body. If a male acquaintance or a male stranger reaches out to touch a girl's hair or her head, the girl’s first reaction is to duck. Then she’ll consider the guy suspicious, forward, creepy, weird or even stalkerish. It’s just not done. In many cultures, women consider head-stroking an intimate gesture. It’s reserved for men they’re closed to or have affection for. 

 

Now, this writer does things in pairs. Yin-yang. In this same Episode 8, there was another incident of hair stroking for comparison: JH and DS. 

[Image removed of JH ruffling DS's hair]

lol. See that? She disliked the way he ruffled her hair. He was tousling her hair hard. It wasn’t gentle at all because he was exasperated with her dimwittedness.   

And when he smooshed her face like this, she didn’t appreciate it either. After he walked away, she shook her hair. Like, "what the heck??!!"  lol. By no stretch of imagination could this scene be considered “lovey-dovey” for her.  She didn’t like it. 

[Image removed of JH Squeezing DS's face]

The last hair stroke here would be DR and DS. I find this amusing because this is the only relationship that didn’t change from start to finish. In Episode 2, he was already tugging her hair and in Episode 15, he was still doing the same attention-seeking act. Each time it resulted in the same consequence. She chased after him with the intent to karate chop. At this point in their relationship, it was safe to say that they had friend-zoned each other. Silly DongRyong.  

So there you go. Four different instances of hair-touching in the series. 

 I've been gently warned about the potential of misapplying social research expeciallty cross-culturally. This is something I know, and did appreciate the gentle reminder, not because I had forgotten, but because I had neglected to put that caveat in my post.

But this is biological research and should apply to ALL MAMMAL -including humans being that walk the earth.  It many not apply to those that swim the oceans or live underground.  --so here I go.

Some people,

Spoiler

I think this is the new neutral term,

are talking about "motherly" touch, "sisterly" touch, "loverly" touch as if touch has an specific physical identity.  It does not. All touch, mother, father, sister, lover, cat travel along the same neural pathway. How you feel about the touch is a psycho-social construction.  It is about how you feel about the person. So there is no brother touch.  There is your brother and him touching you. Your context makes it into a brotherly touch. There is no lover's touch, your feeling about your lover makes it so. 

So the existing relationship creates the nature of the touch. Is the CT-DS touchfest sisterly/brother or lover.  It wasn't brotherly for Taek, if it were ever sisterly for DS after a while she sense that that wasn't the nature of her relationship with Taek and she allowed him to touch her as he saw the relationship.

Quote: That its activity varied depending on whom subjects believed was touching them suggests that the emotional and social components of touch are all but inseparable from physical sensations. "When you're being touched by another person, your brain isn't set up to give you the objective qualities of that touch," says study coauthor Michael Spezio, a psychologist at Scripps College. "The entire experience is affected by your social evaluation of the person touching you." https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201302/the-power-touch 

A short, clear, fun read if you are interested in the pyscho-biology nature of touch.

sncrly

Sumfu

 

[JCM]

17 minutes ago, hushhh said:

 I've been gently warned about the potential of misapplying social research expeciallty cross-culturally. This is something I know, and did appreciate the gentle reminder, not because I had forgotten, but because I had neglected to put that caveat in my post.

But this is biological research and should apply to ALL MAMMAL -including humans being that walk the earth.  It many not apply to those that swim the oceans or live underground.  --so here I go.

<snip>

How you feel about the touch is a psycho-social construction.  It is about how you feel about the person. So there is no brother touch.  There is your brother and him touching you. Your context makes it into a brotherly touch. There is no lover's touch, your feeling about your lover makes it so. 

<snip>

 

If it matters at all, I wholeheartedly approve of your use of context to derive meaning. Without context, nothing in the social world has meaning - behavior, without context is meaningless and unable to be interpreted. 

(in fact, I tell my Sociology students that if they were to develop a drinking game around the number of times that I say the word "context" in any given class, they'd have a serious problem with alcohol by the time they ended the semester lol).

EDIT: You also have a really good point in looking at the potential differences between how Taek meant it and how DS received it. There is no objective reality in the social world. Our perceptions/interpretations of communication and behavior due to our contexts is the reality as far as we are concerned - because that's all we know. It's totally possible for a person to say/communicate/behave one way with a certain meaning and another person hear/receive/see something totally different with a different meaning if they're inhabiting/using different contexts to give meaning to those symbols.

[hushhh]

2 minutes ago, JCM said:

 

If it matters at all, I wholeheartedly approve of your use of context to derive meaning. Without context, nothing in the social world has meaning - behavior, without context is meaningless and unable to be interpreted. 

(in fact, I tell my Sociology students that if they were to develop a drinking game around the number of times that I say the word "context" in any given class, they'd have a serious problem with alcohol by the time they ended the semester lol).

I think context is every thing regardless of your field.

Not so sure about accounting though...

[cheskaunnie]

12 hours ago, beldaran said:

The boys are back  And they've seen a lot of sun....

http://tenasia.hankyung.com/archives/855902

http://star.mt.co.kr/stview.php?no=2016020217044145906

And, actually, yes... reading crap tons of articles pertaining to the series and its actors = my coping mechanism... because there's no way I'm over it. 

I really hope the DVD/BD comes out soon.. because "Mama want". :x

 

im glad im not the only one who cant get over with them,, it's so hard to let them go, i really fell in love with all of them 

[hushhh]

2 hours ago, ilmare said:

sorry to cut your post.

regarding pt 3, i dun think Kim Omma missed Sung Omma's need. the 3 mums are as close as sisters and know very well what each other are going thru, past and present. Kim Omma acted in such a way (telling Sung Omma to take her time to pay back) is her way of saving Sung Omma from embarrassment (having to borrow money again). the 2 families are staying up/down stairs and i am sure they can hear each other shouting/screaming at their respective spouses/kids. in ep2 when BR was raising hell over her denim jacket, Sung Appa made a comment abt it was more entertaining to watch the Sung family than Olympics (track & field) on TV, and we could clearly hear BR voice in the background. it is possible Kim Omma overheard Sung parents' exchange.

by presenting the money as supplement allowance for DS trip(indirectly with the corns), Kim Omma answered Sung Omma's need.

the family dynamics between the families are best. the parents are parents to all the kids, open doors to one and all.

both Kim Omma and BR are poster girls for tough love.  

 

It's a valid interpretation.

It carries as much weight as mine.

[beldaran]

There have been a couple of interviews from Kim Seon Yeong (who portrayed the role of Seon Woo's mom):

I wish I could do the whole interview, but some of what she said seems to be as follows:

http://www.newdaily.co.kr/news/article.html?no=298995

• She had a lot of fun when she first read through the script. She ended up talking to herself, wondering if people really did or said things like that. She thinks that being part of the production was like a dream.
• It has also been her dream to act ever since she got cast in a production when she was in middle school but she grew up in the countryside, so she couldn't be part of a drama school? 
• Director Kim Jin Yeong cast her into a production while she was pregnant... and she's grateful to him for opening the doors to an acting career for her. She may have been cast in 'Answer Me 1988' due to her performance in the movie "Love Clinique". (Fact: She was in two of Director Kim Jin Yeong's movies in 2011 and 2012, after having done only two other movies in 2005 and 2006.)
• She thinks Shin Won Ho is a great leader... and where there's a great leader, people (followers?) gather. XD She's overflowing with feelings of gratitude; merely saying thanks seems to be insufficient.
• He let the Ajumma Trio just do whatever they wanted on their scenes together because they just had so much to say. :x
• It sounds like she'd gotten close with Go Kyeong Pyo (Seon Woo) and she had just started getting close with Choi Moo Seong. The scene when she was wailing to her mother on the phone left a deep impression and it apparently became the top search after the episode broadcast? She said something about loving a scene that Choi Moo Seong was in... maybe in the alley? She also loves the scene in Episode 2 when Lee Il Hwa and Deok Seon were rushing because of Bora's jacket.
• She doesn't think she can expect something like 'Answer Me 1988' to come her way again. She knows not everything can be like that. She's going to continue being passionate in her work, though.

 

http://www.asiatoday.co.kr/view.php?key=20160202001634315

• She did a lot of research and studying for her role, and was a little lost for the first 1-2 weeks, wondering if she was doing OK. But apparently the character "Kim Seon Yeong" was created while she was in her casting interviews with Shin Won Ho PD. Only when she was told did she realize that the character was like her.... filled with tears and laughter :x
• Her favorite scene was when she was worrying about possibly remarrying (with Choi Moo Seong) and Ra Mi Ran had asked, "What about your life?" She suddenly started crying, which wasn't in the script, but she couldn't stop the tears and kept crying. She adlibbed something about crying because of the garlic?
• In 1988, Kim Seon Yeong herself was in elementary school in the countryside, which felt more like 'Answer Me 1988', with sharing food, treating neighbors' kids like your own, etc. Her home had a large yard (?) which became the playground for the whole neighborhood. 
• She'd only had small roles before Answer Me 1988, so she wasn't all that experienced with being in front of the camera yet. The staff helped her a lot, as did Ra Mi Ran. She confessed that she learned quite a bit from Hye Ri and Park Bo Gum, who were like younger siblings but were her seniors when it comes to being in front of the camera. She wants to continue acting even after this. When she worries about it, Ra Mi Ran tells her something like, "You should do what you want to do, what's the problem?"  

 

(I wasn't kidding about the article-hunting semi-obsession.)

[melleri]

Thanks for the interview. I had no idea she wasn't a veteran actress with a lot of experience. She's so natural. I couldn't tell she wasn't used to the camera at all. I also totally loved that scene she mentioned when she cried on the phone to her mother.  It was such a beautiful scene.  And Ra Mi Ran in real life sounds true to her Reply character.    The three ladies were the best and I miss them. I really hope she continues acting for a long time.  

I also continue to be amazed by PD Shin and how much thought and work he puts into this drama and casting.