[Drama 2013] Thorn Flower / Spine Flower 가시꽃

[elegance1]

Oh, I am still watching. I think you are right, but I don't think it's only the language barrier. I also think dailies can most often become too long and many can easily make it shorter with more meaningful parts. I am still curious as to how this will end and how the reaction will be when Se Mi is out in the open. 

[Guest d0137]

Agree with elegance1 I have not been watching but was following baduy's great recaps and some of the previews...I could catch that Jennifer former friend (kid robber) has found from Jennifer she was never pregnant or has never slept with IDIOT HK, i mean how could she think she would after rape attempt and him being the start of all this mess in Ser Mi's life??? errrrWhatever i manage to pick up from the previous sounds like nothing is moving much on making the "mess less messy"
30 minutes but god don't they drag this? 60 episodes would have kept people a bit more willing to watch it all the way through. It is a frustrating drama and i guess many who watched Glass mask -Yellow boots might have thought is one of those dramas with an unsatisfying ending...everyone is messed up and unhappy and somehow related so i personally do think the ending and resolution will be as bad as Glass mask ... lets all forgive each other and forget this was all about revenge!
Havent had the time to watch this or other drama in last few days but there is a couple i started and will be joining forums sometime this week once i catch up with the story lines...
Always appreciate  any comments from Baduy on this drama... Get the feeling sometime next week Jennifer's identity might be disclosed ...just think of Glass mask and when her identity was disclosed lol! around about same time (episodes nr)  )

[Triton823]

Been busy teaching a course at the college I work at and had not time to watch it, but relie on the insight of baduy's brief synopsis and it's hard to watch the episode on my phone when service sucks!? Going to try to get caught back up this weekend.

[baduy]

As an example of one of the many things that easily gets lost, there's the final twist in the business of the President supposedly  being Se Mi's father, which was meant to fall across the weekend between 85 and 86 in the original scheduling. First, when the President keeps on insisting to Jennifer that she's his daughter, and she's replied yet again, yes she knows he is but if he keeps on trying to tell other people that, she'll get his sent to an asylum, he says he's sorry for how he treated her, but he never knew she was his daughter until her mother told him so the night she was killed. Now of course, Jennifer knows she isn't his daughter, so she suddenly realizes that her mother deliberately lied to the President in an attempt to get him to stop the investigation being swept under the carpet, by making him think that the woman his son had treated so vilely was his daughter. Now we understand what was behind the scene his wife witnessed through the window of the inn, which we've now seen no less than five times and which we are about to see again (but each time a different layer of meaning has been revealed) where the President rose and took Se Mi's mother's hands (a sight that convinced his secretly watching wife there was some sort of long-standing relationship between the two of them, a thought which led to her ordering Se Mi's mother's death and will shortly also lead to her signing the committal form to consign the President to a mental hospital. Realizing now that her mother told the President and why, Jennifer seizes the opportunity to make him suffer still further by revealing that both she and her mother lied to him in order to manipulate him, that she isn't his daughter at all (and she shows him the certificate to prove it) so she'll have no compunction in getting him incarcerated in asylum for life, since prison is much too good for him. That really does drive him crazy and make him attempt to strangle her, whereupon, in yet another echo, this time of the scene where Jennifer goaded Hyeok Min into the fatal attack on Kim Baek Choon by the same technique, she pulls open her blouse and screams for help, claiming that he tried to molest her while alluding to his attack on her mother (which Jennifer claims she's hearing about for the first time). This is what unites mother and son in their assent to sending the President off.  His wife fears he really is insane and may try something similar on Soo Ji if given the chance, thus wrecking all hopes for the survival of Tae Kang, while Hyeok Min feels he has to protect his wife from his father at all costs, even if it entails the scandalous admission that the head of the family has  become insane (mental illness still carrying a huge stigma in many sections of Korean society, especially in the head of a dynasty who it is feared may have passed the malady down through the revered "bloodline").

[baduy]

The text preview for tomorrow's episode (87) looks pretty tasty.


Hyeok Min's mother enlists Seo Won's help to drive both Jennifer and Je Joon out of the family. She promises that if he succeeds in doing this, his own permanent place in the family will be assured.

Soo Ji's mother offers to invest 80 billion Won in Taekang, but only on condition that Nam Joon takes over the position of President [now vacant, of course, because the former President has been legally declared insane] instead of Hyeok Min. Hyeok Min balks at this, but then gives way.

Hyeok Min finds out about Seong Min's relationship with Nam Hee and summons her to meet him. Learning of this, Seong Min calls Jennifer in great alarm.

Add in that the video preview shows us Je Joon secretly observing Eun Seok playing with Seon Yeong, with Ji Min tailing him and seeing him doing so, not to mention Jennifer spotting Soo Ji having a bit of a problem with a slipping fake baby-bump, and it looks like more big developments are unfolding.

I wonder whether they've been doing some editing to get the major cliffhangers back on to the Friday / Monday boundaries?

[Auntie Mame]

Given that I was away from internet service for several days last week (and even a smartphone wouldn't have help unless I had service from the ONLY carrier in the area), I was amazed at how little action I missed.  8-|

As luck would have it, I got back up to speed, in time, to see the altercation between Jennifer and President, which lead to him being taken away to the loony farm.  It's probably the safest place for him anyway.  Otherwise, with all the people in his household and their personal agendas, he would have either had another stroke or die. 

Thanks, Baduy for the explanation of the flashback to the President and Se Mi's mother.   Although I understood that Jennifer had revealed the truth of her paternity to him, I didn't understand the relationship to the flashback. 

I had always thought that Se Mi's mother had told the President that Se Mi was his daughter from way back.  And, that was the reason Se Mi's family was employed at the President's house. It was the President's indirect way of supporting Se Mi, his daughter from the rape.  (I'd wondered why Se Mi's mother continued to work at the President's house, after suffering the trauma of the rape.)  :-?

I wonder what is in store for the remaining 30 or so episodes.  But, I don't see a fairy-tale ending for Jennifer.  Besides, her definition of a happy ending would be to successfully achieve her goal of revenge.  As for Eun Sok, I think Jennifer has had second thoughts and is willing to leave Eun Sok with his current family.  After all, family is made of more than a simple blood relationship. 

[Guest d0137]

@BaduyThanks for explanation!
I thought she might have been saying that to the president but didn't pick up the flashback bit anof preview ... nice one
I was lied it was actually satisfying to see in the preview that he was dragged to the "the loony farm" as Autie Mame put it ). Hope that if he gets out of there is to go direct to prison where his son and wife must likely or should be joining later. Finally the revenge is picking up and and as Baduy said "bigger development started unfolding"...
ALERT!! Eun Sok identity is at risk thanks to his slow motion dad (he should also understand what his so called family is capable of doing and avoid sneaking around. Has he knows last time Ji Mi somehow knew he went to the bakery (HELLO HOW DID SHE??) COULD HE NOT ASK HIMSELF HOW OR KNOW HE WAS FOLLOWED??? understand him but err....... Ji Mi found some time in her busy schedule to tail her husband lol!
@Auntie Mame I also don't see a fairy tale ending for Jennifer ....

[baduy]

A lot in today's episode (87) was anticipated and explained in the preview. In fact, I think there are only two scenes that need a bit of explanation beyond what the preview already offered.

When Seo Won's about to leave the house after getting Evil Mom's promise that he will become a permanently treasured member of the family if he manages to break up Je Joon from Ji Min and Jennifer from Hyeok Min, Soo Ji takes him aside and says that he must surely share her suspicions that Jennifer has some ulterior motive for clinging on to Hyeok Min and that she's quite certain she's lying when she claims to love him. She asks Seo Won to help her prove those suspicions are true.

And later, when Jennifer catches Soo Ji tweaking her fake baby bump, she remarks that Soo Ji's belly doesn't seem to be swelling much, and is she sure there isn't some problem with her pregnancy? To which Soo Ji responds with a meaningful look at Jennifer's stomach and says she could say the same about Jennifer's pregnancy.

Text preview for ep 88

Seong Min, angry at the sight of Nam Hee in tears, grabs Hyeok Min violently by the collar. Hyeok Min calls Nam Hee a spy and says Seong Min should hand back everything his father has given him and then follow Jin Yang Hee and disappear for good.

When Hyeok Min fails to show up for dinner with Soo Ji and her mother because he has gone on a date with Jennifer, his mother asks Seo Won to go looking for him. Seo Won says that Hyoek Min will soon be receiving a summons to interrogation from the prosecutor's office.

The calm way Je Joon accepts the knowledge that Ye Jin isn't his daughter disconcerts his mother-in-law and she tells him so.  He points out in reply that she herself was happy to raise Seong Min, and he asks her to finally put a stop to talk about him divorcing Ji Min.

Added to which the video teaser shows Evil Mom telling Nam Joon that he should forget any ideas of Nam Hee marrying Seong Min, and she might consent to Seong Min marrying Nam Hee on the right conditions, only to be both surprised and relieved when he says he himself is adamantly opposed to any such marriage.

[Auntie Mame]

@Baduy:  Did the drama ever fully explained what the President did to Nam Joon's father?

All I know is that Nam Joon is out to avenge his father.  Did the President directly or, perhaps, indirectly cause the father's death?

Just curious, not that it makes a lot of difference. 

Thanks
:-??

[baduy]

Nam Joon's father discovered that Taekang was engaged in large-scale bribery of politicians to gain commercial advantages. When he tried to blow the whistle, he was himself framed for the malpractices he'd unearthed and then murdered in a way that allowed his death to be interpreted as suicide motivated by shame at his supposed misdeeds.

[Auntie Mame]

baduy said: Nam Joon's father discovered that Taekang was engaged in large-scale bribery of politicians to gain commercial advantages. When he tried to blow the whistle, he was himself framed for the malpractices he'd unearthed and then murdered in a way that allowed his death to be interpreted as suicide motivated by shame at his supposed misdeeds.

[baduy]

Mvibo have now put up ep 27 with English subs. And they seem to have cleaned the virus infection from their rotating banners, though I'd still advise staying clear of their homepage if you can and going straight to the drama listings.

And I can see why the subber, as well as making 춘향 and 이몽룡 into Romeo and Juliet, although Paolo and Francesca might have been more (in)appropriate, decided to translate 김칫국 as "pasta soup" (although 'pasta soup' is hardly the everyday Western dish the subber seems to think it is, but anyone who's misled by this to think that 김치 is "pasta" is in for a surprise,  possibly unpleasant, depending in more senses than one on taste).

[elegance1]

Omg. I was just screaming YEEEEEEEEEEEEEES very silently when I saw tomorrow's preview. 

[baduy]

In the first sequence of today's episode (88), after hearing Hyeok Min furiously order him, as per the preview, to hand back the stocks their father gave him and to get lost along with his birth mother, Seong Min adamantly refuses to do any such thing and says he won't leave the house until his father has been released from the asylum and restored to his rightful place. That, of course, doesn't go down well with Jennifer.

That aside, I think the only thing that needs filling in about today's episode (88) beyond what was in the preview info is how Seo Won is getting stuck into his undertaking to Evil Mom to buy his way into the family by splitting up both Hyeok Min and Je Joon from their wives.

When Evil Mom alerts him that Hyeok Min has gone missing and has failed to show up at Soo Ji's house, he promises to get him back. At first he can't get in touch with him, because Jennifer has surreptitiously turned off Hyeok Min's cellphone after rejecting a call from Soo Ji, but as soon as that obstacle is overcome, Seo Won tells Hyeok Min that he needs to come over to his office right away, because he's been tipped off that he's going to be issued with subpoena to attend for interrogation. That succeeds in making Hyeok Min break off his date with Jennifer and rush to Seo Won's office to find out more. While Hyeok Min is on his way, Seo Won calls Soo Ji and tells her he's going to bring Hyeok Won over to her house very shortly and suggests that as a quid pro quo she should get Ji Min over there, too. Soo Ji agrees to that deal and duly asks Ji Min over, but without telling her Seo Won is going to be present as well (which is why Ji Min is in such a bad mood with Soo Ji as well when she's there, with neither she nor her brother wanting to be in the company they find themselves in).

Embedded in this scene is a bit more black comedy when, after Seo Won has proposed a toast to the health of Ji Soo's baby, Hyeok Min recalls to himself how, shortly before, Jennifer had come up with her suggestions for names for her baby: if it's a boy, she wants to name it Min Je, blithely claiming that the Je comes from "Jennifer" (rather than the more obvious source, Je Joon), and she says now it's up to Hyeok Min to think of a girl's name, whereupon he comes up with Min Seo (claiming got the Seo from  part of Jennifer's Korean name, but here too, there's a more ambivalent source in his weaselish old ex-buddy). No sooner has Hyeok Min privately relived this moment than Soo Ji pointedly asks Seo Won can he offer any suggestions for naming her baby. Seo Won responds, as Soo Ji fully intended him to, by pointing out that she should be asking the baby's father that one. Hyeok Min is lost for words, and Ji Min rubs salt in his wounds by asking what sort of father hasn't even thought about names for his own baby. But without waiting for Hyeok Min to find his tongue again, Soo Ji comes out with her own suggestion for a girl: Min Joo. Seo Won approves of that one, but Hyeok Min remains silent, and Ji Min doesn't bother asking him has he any ideas for a boy's name, leaving Soo Ji to come up with Min Ji as her suggestion. In a pensive, indeed mournful tone which seems to strike no-one present as odd, although we understand well enough why she's fighting back an inner grief she daren't express more openly, Soo Ji repeats absently "If it's a boy, Min Ji, if it's a girl, Min Joo". Seo Won repeats his earlier toast to the baby, this time with the proposed names, but he's the only one who isn't grim-faced as they clink their glasses once more.

This sequence apparently spreads over into tomorrow's episode, with Seo Won bringing Ji Min home drunk and trying to stir up further trouble by telling Jennifer that Hyeok Min is staying over at Soo Ji's for the night.

One minor correction concerning my earlier posting about the cliffhanger scene at the end of today's episode. From the tiny snippet in yesterday's teaser I assumed that the conversation between Nam Joon and Evil Mom in the President's study had started by her objecting to Seong Min and Nam Hee's relationship. But it turns out that it didn't. On the contrary, Evil Mom smarmily tells Nam Joon that she willingly consents to the idea of Seong Min marrying Nam Hee. Doubtless she sees this a a good way of getting rid of her stepson for good, assuming that he'll take his bride and join his birth mother abroad, while at the same time tying Nam Joon's hands where her family is concerned. So when Nam Joon scornfully rejects her unwanted approval and says he would never ever consent to any sort of link between their families, he both shocks Evil Mom and dismays the ever-eavesdropping Jennifer. [if Jennifer's ears responded to eavesdropping like Pinocchio's nose did to fibbing, they'd have to rename the drama The Elephant Woman.]

Text preview for episode 89

After escorting the drunken Ji Min back home, Seo Won tells Jennifer that Hyeok Min is still at Soo Ji's house, and suggests she should go over there and fetch him back. But Jennifer seems unconcerned.

Seon Yeong reveals to Nam Joon that Jennifer is merely pretending to be pregnant in order to ensnare Hyeok Min, and that comes as a great relief to Nam Joon.

When Hyoek Min excuses himself for staying over at Soo Ji's house by saying he got drunk, Jennifer bursts into floods of tears and Hyeok Min is seriously shaken.

EDIT, having now watched the actual episode, I can't help wondering why the preview writer always has women "bursting into floods of tears" even when all that actually happens on screen is that their eyes go slightly damp at the corners.  I also note that Jennifer, who was of course eavesdropping like mad again today, has adjusted her hairstyle just in case excessive ear growth needs to be concealed.

[Auntie Mame]

Honestly, they should all consider learning sign language, with which to hold their secret conversations.
8-|

How many coincidences can there be for someone, to be in the right place, at the right time, to overhear a conversation.  8-}

[Guest d0137]

@Auntie Mame =)) Agree i kind of had the same thoughts ... things are moving a little faster and next week few more developments might occur... right now from recaps and previews i was only rather happy to have the president but all other lunatics are still on the loose needing anger management slot appointments...
I look forward to end of next week episodes...

[baduy]

Auntie Mame said: Honestly, they should all consider learning sign language, with which to hold their secret conversations.

[Triton823]

So the have effectively taken the president out.....whose next? Im think the creepy guy who wants in jm pants and jm. I think mommy dearest will be last to go....dang thats a lot of bad guys to knock off.

[Guest d0137]

@Triton823
Yes looking forward  for the next in line to get the "Pay back".I think  Seo Won and HM will be the last ones to get their punishment since they started it all and the others contributed to destroying her live...
We do see Soo Ji falling down the stairs on preview, is about time they find out she isn't pregnant and also about time she stops blaming Jennifer for loosing the baby, it was unfortunate ... but i guess she might bribe the doctor and say she just lost the baby on this fall.
Unfortunately Nam Joom and Seon Yeong might get a small punishment considering Jennifer acknowledgment of her son connection with them. Wonder what she can do to get back at them for her suffering in relation to her son without affecting her son well being. This might already be a hint she might leave or die at the end (she came back only for revenge and if is not for her son i don't think she cares if she dies  as long as she gets them all punished for destroying her and her parents lives) she kind of already said, specially when it comes to H Min.
By the way can anyone clarify:If Soo Ji found out she is Se Mi? she certainly found Jennifer knows her detective and might have made a deal with him (also unclear what she had on him to make him zip his mouth??)
2-What is it Je Joon exactly knows by now regarding what happened to Se Mi and Her parents? Is it for real?? he knows most of it and is still on their side?? He is still an annoying character...
Seo Won kind of knew Se Mi had a child that was given for adoption correct? has he mentioned this to HM or Ji Mi? do they all now about this fact from back then?He is the Evil clever one and i wonder if he will be the one revealing her identity eventually...Actually H Min is not all that clever but is a potential Phsyco... 

[baduy]

d0137 said:

By the way can anyone clarify:If Soo Ji found out she is Se Mi? she certainly found Jennifer knows her detective and might have made a deal with him (also unclear what she had on him to make him zip his mouth??)