Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kireeti2]

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

By the way, speaking of Alice, someone finally translated the teaser. So now I can actually make sense of what they're saying - and, dang, if that first line just didn't make things way more complicated. Like...who pushed who off the roof there??? 

It was translated in January, 3 days after the Korean version was released, I saw it in this account under the Instagram story https://www.instagram.com/meyahmjw/

Speaking of the dialogues in the teaser, they are very confusing, it is like we are not able to pin-point exact relationship between the leads. The above dialogue you mentioned is followed by this dialogue "Did you do it? I believe you because your my son" And then a detective informs to joo won that he should have caught the guy who killed his mother but he couldn't. It's almost like they have mother-son relationship but I think we need wait for the premiere to clear this confusion.

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

This is really just a small smattering of dramas I've watched, but they're all ones I enjoyed when I did. Of course, @kireeti2, I don't know how much my tastes will align with yours, but it's worth a shot.

Thanks And yeah most of your suggested dramas are sort of aligned with the preference, since none of them have common K-drama love plot Although I am new to the K-drama, but I am sort of fed-up with the love plot pretty quickly

I think I will start with "Cross" drama, because  the plot has medical and revenge in it and then the two historical dramas you mentioned since I have less exposure about Korean history

Hey @kittyna,when your were classifying women's behavior in terms of "Fox and Bear" , were you implicitly pointing towards the Chinese drama "The Fox's Summer", it caught my eye due to your classification and it was quite confusing, since in the series everyone thinks the Female lead as Fox personality but she actually as Bear personality, but acts like a Fox since everyone was prejudice about her including her mother. So it made me wonder can there be Hybrid personality like Fox and Bear?

 

 

 

And the also the way SBS Instagram is promoting its dramas like "Back street Rookie", "The King: Eternal Monarch" with all the Behind scenes photos and videos, makes me  excited for August month, since before the drama they have to do tons of promotions, I can see them posting videos, photos of the "Alice" drama, like they have done with The King: Eternal Monarch and doing with the Backstreet Rookie.

[kireeti2]

I come bearing Good news, Alice has been licensed at VIKI. Not only Alice, there are lots awesome dramas from East Asia that you can watch on VIKI legally, no popups, just few ads to keep the dramas free to watch, if you hate ads you can buy VIKI pass and watch dramas ad-free

 

[mystylee33]

On 7/15/2020 at 11:02 AM, kireeti2 said:

It was translated in January, 3 days after the Korean version was released, I saw it in this account under the Instagram story https://www.instagram.com/meyahmjw/

Speaking of the dialogues in the teaser, they are very confusing, it is like we are not able to pin-point exact relationship between the leads. The above dialogue you mentioned is followed by this dialogue "Did you do it? I believe you because your my son" And then a detective informs to joo won that he should have caught the guy who killed his mother but he couldn't. It's almost like they have mother-son relationship but I think we need wait for the premiere to clear this confusion.

Thanks And yeah most of your suggested dramas are sort of aligned with the preference, since none of them have common K-drama love plotAlthough I am new to the K-drama, but I am sort of fed-up with the love plot pretty quickly

I think I will start with "Cross" drama, because  the plot has medical and revenge in it and then the two historical dramas you mentioned since I have less exposure about Korean history

 

And the also the way SBS Instagram is promoting its dramas like "Back street Rookie", "The King: Eternal Monarch" with all the Behind scenes photos and videos, makes me  excited for August month, since before the drama they have to do tons of promotions, I can see them posting videos, photos of the "Alice" drama, like they have done with The King: Eternal Monarch and doing with the Backstreet Rookie.

Sorry I don't know how to quote im not familiar anymore with the settings of soompi thread.... I just want to quote on what u said about the behind the scenes of the recent dramas aired in SBS, for now some fans are worrying about the videos sbs may release about Alice when it comes out specially in Youtube some of them may be blocked to other countries. I just hope that they would stop blocking international fans 

 other countries can’t access their videos in Youtube, Naver Tv, or any korean site,, ,InstaGram when reposting it. Views will get higher if only they’ll permit international fans to gain access....  Last night JooWon updated his ig and thankfully a fan saw it but unfortunately it has been deleted because he himself cannot post his upcoming drama trailer ALICE to his Instagram account so this is kinda disappointing to SBS 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sushimi
Do not quote emoji gifs, thanks

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, mystylee33 said:

Sorry I don't know how to quote im not familiar anymore with the settings of soompi thread.... I just want to quote on what u said about the behind the scenes of the recent dramas aired in SBS, for now some fans are worrying about the videos sbs may release about Alice when it comes out specially in Youtube some of them may be blocked to other countries. I just hope that they would stop blocking international fans

Yeah, I saw that too. Few fans were not able to access videos. It might be a technical glitch. I think the reasons for such views is because of the issues you mentioned. I pretty sure SBS is working on that. But all these promotions will not matter if the series is hit, for instance, The World of Married, there was literally no promotion and it's awesome story line and great acting cast acted as dramas promotion, for example I got to know about this awesome drama through good ratings and reviews,  not to mention it  ended up being drama with highest ratings in Cable Channels. I hope Alice would also end up like it

1 hour ago, mystylee33 said:

Last night JooWon updated his ig and thankfully a fan saw it but unfortunately it has been deleted because he himself cannot post his upcoming drama trailer ALICE to his Instagram account so this is kinda disappointing to SBS 

Yeah, I saw that too. It almost felt like SBS was not serious about drama promotion, but these technical issue are bound to happen. Perhaps there was something wrong with the video, like an editing mistake or wrong product placement. I guess we have to wait till August to see if the SBS is serious about drama promotion or not, since they were promoting other dramas so well,and Hopefully  they will put same effort in promotion of "Alice"

[kittyna]

On 7/15/2020 at 11:02 AM, kireeti2 said:

Speaking of the dialogues in the teaser, they are very confusing, it is like we are not able to pin-point exact relationship between the leads. The above dialogue you mentioned is followed by this dialogue "Did you do it? I believe you because your my son" And then a detective informs to joo won that he should have caught the guy who killed his mother but he couldn't. It's almost like they have mother-son relationship but I think we need wait for the premiere to clear this confusion.

 

It sounds almost like Kim Hee Sun is meant to be his mother, and that she was the only one who stood up for him when [something involving pushing] happened when he was younger. Like, whatever it was that happened in that opening scene of the trailer, it's clear that JW's character was traumatized by it and the trailer also seems to imply that his lack of emotion is related to that experience.

 

But then JW's mom (whether Kim Hee Sun or another character) is killed (or at least he thinks so), and he's spent the rest of his life thus far trying to solve that case. And it sounds like his mother's death/disappearance is linked to time travel.

 

Yeah...tons of different directions this could go in, and that's what's making Alice interesting so far  

 

On 7/15/2020 at 2:52 PM, kireeti2 said:

I come bearing Good news, Alice has been licensed at VIKI. Not only Alice, there are lots awesome dramas from East Asia that you can watch on VIKI legally, no popups, just few ads to keep the dramas free to watch, if you hate ads you can buy VIKI pass and watch dramas ad-free

 

Thanks for the tip! To be honest, I've never actually tried to watch a drama online while it's still showing; I usually tend to wait until it's complete with subtitles - or Cantonese dub if watching with family - first. But I just might try watching live for Alice...I don't know yet. 

 

In the meantime, though, @airplanegirl, do you remember from JW's past dramas (e.g. My Sassy Girl) what the guidelines were on this forum re: spoilers? I was around on Soompi back then, but more as a lurker than an active participant, so I don't really remember off the top of my head.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 4:34 PM, mystylee33 said:

Last night JooWon updated his ig and thankfully a fan saw it but unfortunately it has been deleted because he himself cannot post his upcoming drama trailer ALICE to his Instagram account so this is kinda disappointing to SBS 

 

On 7/15/2020 at 6:01 PM, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, I saw that too. It almost felt like SBS was not serious about drama promotion, but these technical issue are bound to happen. Perhaps there was something wrong with the video, like an editing mistake or wrong product placement.

 

It could be a editing issues, or it could also be that, technically, JW doesn't hold copyright, even over his own footage. It's the weird conundrum that musicians face, too: they might compose and perform the song, but the resulting recording is owned by the record company/distributor rather than the artist him/herself. 

 

(Which is why, recently here in North America, Taylor Swift had to fight her agency to even be able to perform some of her own songs. Not that I'm a fan of hers; the story was just big enough to actually make the news where I'm at.)

 

On 7/15/2020 at 6:01 PM, kireeti2 said:

I pretty sure SBS is working on that. But all these promotions will not matter if the series is hit, for instance, The World of Married, there was literally no promotion and it's awesome story line and great acting cast acted as dramas promotion, for example I got to know about this awesome drama through good ratings and reviews,  not to mention it  ended up being drama with highest ratings in Cable Channels.

 

That's true; word of mouth goes a long way on something like this. And if Alice also ends up available on Netflix, then YouTube K-drama channels like The Swoon (which is associated with Netflix) will also get involved, producing their own interviews, behind-the-scenes tidbits, trailers, etc.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 4:34 PM, mystylee33 said:

Sorry I don't know how to quote im not familiar anymore with the settings of soompi thread...

 

If you're on a computer, the method is the same: highlight the text you want to quote and hover your cursor over it until you see "Quote selection". I'm not sure about the phone, though....

 

Also, with the whole slew of updates Soompi's been doing, some text box features have been glitchy or temporarily dismantled (e.g. I logged on once to find that the "hidden content" button was missing, but it's back now). So if quoting doesn't work right away, you can always wait a bit and try again.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 11:02 AM, kireeti2 said:

I think I will start with "Cross" drama, because  the plot has medical and revenge in it and then the two historical dramas you mentioned since I have less exposure about Korean history

 

I should give fair warning: Cross did wind up embroiled in its own #MeToo scandal surrounding the second male lead actor (i.e. not Go Kyung Pyo, thank goodness), and he even had to drop out partway because of it. All things considered, though, the drama did do a decent job of making that actor's departure relevant to the story and the other characters' arcs. But, you know, just in case that makes you uncomfortable. 

 

Also, the two historical dramas play a lot with the history - not in the way that fusion sageuks do (i.e. by blending modern elements into a period setting), but by essentially fictionalizing these real historical figures' lives. Partly, it's because of "rule of drama" (i.e. that real life is rarely good television), and partly, it's because we really don't know much about what these people's lives were actually like. Especially with women (e.g. Shin Saimdang), whose names and stories were rarely recorded in any detail.

 

So, those dramas could help you learn about the time period, but don't take the main leads' bios all that seriously  

 

And I'm almost at the point when I can post that Seolleim in Salzburg fic preview, so stay tuned!

 

[EDIT] And...JW's just reposted the trailer.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sushimi
Do not quote emoji gifs, thanks

[kireeti2]

33 minutes ago, kittyna said:

it's clear that JW's character was traumatized by it and the trailer also seems to imply that his lack of emotion is related to that experience.

Just like male lead's character from "Remember", "The Fox's Summer" "Ojakgyo Brother", I think it will be similar with "Hwang Tae-Hee" character minus the family support. Well I am happy if it's the character is based on the above mentioned dramas, since I can sympathize with his character and Joo won really plays well in these sort of characters who has past-trauma and cannot express their feelings properly, like emotionally scarred. Those type of characters are pretty hard to play though, but since joo won is already an expert in it I think I have nothing to worry about

39 minutes ago, kittyna said:

That's true; word of mouth goes a long way on something like this. And if Alice also ends up available on Netflix, then YouTube K-drama channels like The Swoon (which is associated with Netflix) will also get involved, producing their own interviews, behind-the-scenes tidbits, trailers, etc.

I don't know, Netflix is being pretty calculative about taking K-dramas, I mean they are just interested in sort of dramas in which male lead as some International recognition, mostly in the west. And Joo won is sort of East Asian and South-East Asian star. So, they might take the license only after watching the ratings,like they did with "The World of Married"

 

43 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I should give fair warning: Cross did wind up embroiled in its own #MeToo scandal surrounding the second male lead actor (i.e. not Go Kyung Pyo, thank goodness), and he even had to drop out partway because of it. All things considered, though, the drama did do a decent job of making that actor's departure relevant to the story and the other characters' arcs. But, you know, just in case that makes you uncomfortable. 

Thanks for the Head-ups, I think, I will skip this one

 

By the way @kittyna, I came across this video about introverts, like how can you tell if your one, my behavior check-all-the-boxes

Spoiler

 

 

[kittyna]

23 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Hey @kittyna,when your were classifying women's behavior in terms of "Fox and Bear" , were you implicitly pointing towards the Chinese drama "The Fox's Summer", it caught my eye due to your classification and it was quite confusing, since in the series everyone thinks the Female lead as Fox personality but she actually as Bear personality, but acts like a Fox since everyone was prejudice about her including her mother. So it made me wonder can there be Hybrid personality like Fox and Bear?

 

Replying to this first since I didn't get to it earlier. I actually haven't heard of that drama before, so no. I first heard of the "fox/bear" thing from JW, actually, when I saw references to him preferring "bear" type girls in interviews. And then I went, "'Bear'? What does that mean?" As for fox...that exists in Chinese culture as well: calling a girl a "fox", though, seems to carry a stronger and more negative connotation in Chinese than Korean (it's essentially calling her a RickRoll'D).

 

  

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Just like male lead's character from "Remember", "The Fox's Summer" "Ojakgyo Brother", I think it will be similar with "Hwang Tae-Hee" character minus the family support. Well I am happy if it's the character is based on the above mentioned dramas, since I can sympathize with his character and Joo won really plays well in these sort of characters who has past-trauma and cannot express their feelings properly, like emotionally scarred. Those type of characters are pretty hard to play though, but since joo won is already an expert in it I think I have nothing to worry about

 

Hwang Tae Hui, Cha Yoo Jin...even Gu Ma Jun or Lee Kang To, if you count their loose cannon tendencies as not being able to express their feelings appropriately (since the only negative emotion they ever let themselves express is anger, everything comes out as just that). 

 

So, yep - JW definitely has tons of experience with that  I do think Alice might take it even further than he's ever done in the past, though.

 

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I don't know, Netflix is being pretty calculative about taking K-dramas, I mean they are just interested in sort of dramas in which male lead as some International recognition, mostly in the west. And Joo won is sort of East Asian and South-East Asian star. So, they might take the license only after watching the ratings,like they did with "The World of Married"

 

I actually wonder whether JW's popularity in the West has grown in the past few years due to the American version of Good Doctor - that one scathing criticism aside, most of the comments I've seen from people who watched the American version and then went back to watch the Korean one were positive  If there's enough of a demand there, then Alice being licensed by something like Netflix is possible.

 

12 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way @kittyna, I came across this video about introverts, like how can you tell if your one, my behavior check-all-the-boxes

 

lol - I'm not so much of a classic introvert as you are, then! I do identify myself as an introvert, but I fall somewhere closer to the middle of the spectrum than what's described in the video. So, for instance, I am definitely outgoing and talkative by introvert standards; I just have a point when I abruptly realize enough is enough and oh-my-God-please-let-me-be-alone-with-my-books-and-music-and-laptop. 

 

But I can't stand complete silence or stillness, either; it makes me feel insecure. 

 

[kireeti2]

And the promotions has begun for "Alice", SBS Drama Instagram posted story where we can ask questions directly to Joo Won and Kim Hee Seon, too bad we cannot ask in English for international fans

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCr9-aUpdWv/

I guess by the end of July or in the first week of August we might see new posts and videos of Alice and we are lucky we could see full fledged trailer

 

On 7/16/2020 at 10:39 AM, kittyna said:

lol - I'm not so much of a classic introvert as you are, then! I do identify myself as an introvert, but I fall somewhere closer to the middle of the spectrum than what's described in the video. So, for instance, I am definitely outgoing and talkative by introvert standards; I just have a point when I abruptly realize enough is enough and oh-my-God-please-let-me-be-alone-with-my-books-and-music-and-laptop. 

 

But I can't stand complete silence or stillness, either; it makes me feel insecure. 

Ah,I see, you are an "Ambivert" or an "Omnivert". In between of Introvert and Extrovert nature, sort of a balanced behavior.

 

On 7/16/2020 at 10:39 AM, kittyna said:

complete silence or stillness

These things are "Heavenly moments" for us  introverts. It makes us feel secure and we can stay like that until universe says otherwise

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sushimi
Do not quote emoji gifs, thanks

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

So, for instance, I am definitely outgoing and talkative by introvert standards;

I too behave like this, but in front of my close and trusted  friends, like they are only just 4 people where I would show my talkative  and outgoing nature, if an extra member adds to them like their acquaintance I would go complete mum and stay in my space 

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And the promotions has begun for "Alice", SBS Drama Instagram posted story where we can ask questions directly to Joo Won and Kim Hee Seon, too bad we cannot ask in English for international fans

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCr9-aUpdWv/

 

But at least there are fans who are eager to translate the questions and answers once they come  

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Ah,I see, you are an "Ambivert" or an "Omnivert". In between of Introvert and Extrovert nature, sort of a balanced behavior.

 

Yeah, but I still lean more to the introvert than the extrovert side. Like, I took one MBTI test once that said I was about 30% extrovert and 70% introvert - which seems about right.

 

In the meantime, Preview #4 of my upcoming installment for Seolleim in Salzburg is now ready!

 

Spoiler

I block out the rest of Nae Il’s questions behind me as well as Yoon Hoo’s reply as I unlock the door of the apartment, opening the latch with a violent wrench of my wrist and marching inside. Their voices follow me as I kick off my shoes and step into the foyer, the wine cupboard in the kitchen beckoning to me like a siren’s call.

 

What I wouldn’t give for a drink right now – but now is not the time.

 

The others are still going on as I abruptly turn on my heel to face them, their eyes widening when I snap my fingers in Yoon Hoo’s direction.

 

“You – come with me.”

 

His jaw drops. “Cha Yoo Jin….”

 

“Orabang….” Nae Il gasps, her words perfectly echoing his.

 

“Stay out of this, Seollebal,” I growl out, raising one hand to stop her. “This doesn’t concern you.”

 

A subtle shake of the head from Yoon Hoo keeps her from protesting, and she finally steps back just enough that I could reach in to grab him by the wrist. Leaving Nae Il still rooted to the spot in the foyer, I pull him along behind me into the living room before finally letting go, flinging myself free and rounding on him.

 

“Bravo,” I drawl out, my mouth curling into a sneer. “You must be feeling awfully proud of yourself right now.”

 

By the look on his face, it doesn’t take him long to figure out what this is about. “Look, Cha Yoo Jin: I know what I must have sounded like, but–”

 

“Shut up – you know full well what you did.”

 

Yoon Hoo recoils, blinking in surprise. “Cha–”

 

“Coming from anyone else, I could chalk up that sort of answer to stupidity – or, naivety, if that sounds better to your ears. But you’re not like that, Lee Yoon Hoo. You’re not stupid.”

 

He bristles. “I already said I didn’t mean it that way–”

 

“You saw that reporter!” I snap, cutting him off with a slash of my hand. “Even if you didn’t understand the language, you saw the look on her face. You, above all others, should have known how saying that I stopped you from performing back then could be misconstrued – which means I have little option but to believe that you did so on purpose.”

 

That seems to strike a nerve. Yoon Hoo’s eyes narrow; he draws himself up to his full height, closing the gap between us with a single long stride. “And if I did?”

 

I stare at him, incredulous, taking an instinctive step back despite myself. “Mwo?”

 

“Let’s just say I did mean it that way,” he says, closing in a second time. “What would you do about it? And besides” – his lip curls up in a snarl – “if you are going to start counting, you can’t say it isn’t fair.”

 

“What do you mean?” I let out a scoff. “Ya, Lee Yoon Hoo–”

 

“First: the Paderewski. I’m not going to say you planned it this way, but even you can’t deny that when our concertos are compared, yours will come out on top.”

 

“Fair enough,” I concede, “but–”

 

“Second: the orchestra. Don’t think I haven’t realized that they follow you more.”

 

“Ya, Lee Yoon Hoo!” I burst out, finally succeeding in getting a word in. “That doesn’t make any sense! How the hell could I have–”

 

“Language, for one. You can actually just say what you want and they’ll understand – I can’t. Nor – unlike you – can I just sit down at the piano and play it out for them when words don’t work.”

 

My jaw drops. “Your rehearsals have still gone well, though.”

 

“Ara,” he retorts. “I know they have. All I’m saying is that if I were to play the victim to the press to put myself back on top, it’s only fair.”

 

“It’s not the same, though!” I snap, stepping forward so urgently that he retreats once again.

 

“Why not?”

 

“Because…” I cut myself off with a muttered curse, unable to get my words out properly. “Because–”

 

“Stop it! That’s enough – from both of you!”

 

Both of us whirl around in surprise at Nae Il’s voice. She is standing in the living room doorway, arms spread out wide to either side. As Yoon Hoo and I gape at her, she marches resolutely into the room. “That’s enough,” she says, exuding all the authority of an angry schoolteacher despite her slight build. “This whole thing is just one massive misunderstanding, but rather than seeing that, you two are just acting like a bunch of selfish brats!”

 

My mouth opens and closes helplessly several times before I could speak. “A-aniya, Seollebal; it’s not like–”

 

“Quiet, Orabang,” she barks out. “You started it.”

 

As I stare wide-eyed at her, caught off guard by her harsh rebuke, Yoon Hoo attempts to defend himself. “Mianhae, Nae Il-ah; we were just–”

 

“And you,” she says, rounding on him, “shouldn’t have added to it.”

 

Both of us stand there in silence, fidgeting awkwardly under her withering gaze. Then, to our surprise, she suddenly points behind us at the balcony. “Get out.”

 

My jaw drops. “Eh?”

 

“Get out,” she says again. “Both of you. And don’t even think about coming back in here until you’ve both cooled down.”

 

Yoon Hoo retreats readily enough, but I make an attempt to step around Nae Il before she darts over to block my path. Making a shooing motion with both hands, she herds us both backwards out through the sliding door onto the balcony before closing it without a word.

 

Immediately, I lunge for the latch, but it is already too late: Nae Il has already locked it, and the only response I get when I slap one hand to the door is a text message repeating her orders from before.

 

By now, the sun has set completely. The sky is dark above our heads, and an evening breeze blows down from the mountains – crisp and cool for now, but sure to become uncomfortably cold if we take too long.

 

Yoon Hoo watches our exchange, leaning back against the railing with his arms crossed. “Just give it up, Cha Yoo Jin; you know how stubborn Nae Il is.”

 

I round on him. This is not the time for his patronizing. “Jugulae?”

 

He opens his mouth to protest, but something in my expression gives him pause. Instead, despite his better judgment, his eyes dart sideways over the edge, taking in the parking lot three floors down. “You can’t be serious.”

 

“With anyone else, I wouldn’t be. But with you” – I take a step closer, crossing over to his side of the small confined space – “I’m not so sure.”

 

So we've got one insecure sleep-deprived grumpy cat, one guy (not sure what animal analogy would work) who tends to play devil's advocate, and a news reporter who's decided to stir up drama for ratings. What can possibly go wrong? 

[kireeti2]

12 hours ago, kittyna said:

So we've got one insecure sleep-deprived grumpy cat, one guy (not sure what animal analogy would work) who tends to play devil's advocate, and a news reporter who's decided to stir up drama for ratings. What can possibly go wrong? 

It looks like they are having some altercation about the performance, perhaps a rivalry of conductors? By the way were you referring to RS orchestra group in the story or the orchestra group in Europe? Since Lee Yoon-Hoo is in-charge of RS orchestra group, so I am guessing its RS orchestra. So did Lee Yoon-Hoo said something damaging about Cha Yoo-jin, not like badmouthing him with accusing of excessive drink or guy with bad temper. But, like implicitly saying that he is being an obstacle in his progression as a Conductor?

23 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, yep - JW definitely has tons of experience with that  I do think Alice might take it even further than he's ever done in the past, though.

I am hoping for the same thing, the part in the synopsis where it says a "detective who can show emotions" was very intriguing. I guess there will be tonnes of emotional scenes which will make me cry like it did with "Good Doctor"

The way he was walking in the school hall sort of gives a signal that he is a rebel kid with emotionally damaged personality

Perhaps, this drama will also bring mental health issue dimension, because mental is sort of taboo in East Asian countries and this story might have the message to sensitize about mental health issues and also "The Light in Your Eyes" story also had similar theme like Alice, not like totally similar but like time traveling  of female lead and story sort of revolves around her

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

It looks like they are having some altercation about the performance, perhaps a rivalry of conductors? By the way were you referring to RS orchestra group in the story or the orchestra group in Europe? Since Lee Yoon-Hoo is in-charge of RS orchestra group, so I am guessing its RS orchestra. So did Lee Yoon-Hoo said something damaging about Cha Yoo-jin, not like badmouthing him with accusing of excessive drink or guy with bad temper. But, like implicitly saying that he is being an obstacle in his progression as a Conductor?

 

Well, I'm obviously not gonna give it all away yet, but I will clarify that the orchestra in question is the Royal Berlin (i.e. the orchestra Professor Stresemann works with when he's in Europe and the one that - in my fics - he wants Yoo Jin and Yoon Hoo to collaborate with).

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

The way he was walking in the school hall sort of gives a signal that he is a rebel kid with emotionally damaged personality 

 

Either a rebel kid, or one who's been bullied/ostracized and has decided to just stop caring.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Perhaps, this drama will also bring mental health issue dimension, because mental is sort of taboo in East Asian countries and this story might have the message to sensitize about mental health issues and also "The Light in Your Eyes" story also had similar theme like Alice, not like totally similar but like time traveling  of female lead and story sort of revolves around her

 

Mental health does seem to be increasingly prevalent in K-dramas, so if Alice does address it, I hope it does so in a way that's respectful without being cliché.

[kireeti2]

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

one who's been bullied/ostracized and has decided to just stop caring

With that physique, I don't think any kid would want to bully him Although it is possible that few kids could gang up on him and the dialogue which says that "He pushed me" or "He pushed him off the roof" sort of draws a picture where he was in a fight with few kids who might be bullying him and during that altercation something bad might have happened, like some kid died or got serious injury. But we have to wait for the drama to confirm our theories, but I am seriously hoping they will not make the leads Mom and Son because this seem to be big turn off in the fans, even a senior-junior relationship with not love story is also acceptable

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

Well, I'm obviously not gonna give it all away ye

So, that question was rhetorical?

@kittyna By the way I would like to ask a question about: Why Cha Yoo-jin was uneasiness or disapproved  of Nae-il's action in Fan Fiction during the interaction with Fatima and Muhammad ? Since it's sort of sensitive subject I am hiding it

Spoiler

You know, the Hijab incident. Where Nae-il wanted to wear it but Cha Yoo-jin was sort of not in favor of it. Is it because pro-choice vs Compulsory debate of Hijab? Or is ti because she might be targeted by Islamophobic group? I really didn't get why he acted the way he did 

 

[kittyna]

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Although it is possible that few kids could gang up on him and the dialogue which says that "He pushed me" or "He pushed him off the roof" sort of draws a picture where he was in a fight with few kids who might be bullying him and during that altercation something bad might have happened, like some kid died or got serious injury.

 

Yeah - going by the trailer, if JW's character was ostracized for whatever reason, it'd probably be that. I got the vibe that someone accused him of pushing someone else off the roof and that most of the students believed the rumour.

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But we have to wait for the drama to confirm our theories, but I am seriously hoping they will not make the leads Mom and Son because this seem to be big turn off in the fans, even a senior-junior relationship with not love story is also acceptable

 

Well, it will be what it is at this point. Generally, I think many of the actors' fans will stick through the drama regardless (fandoms in Hallyu tend to be loyal like that), but whether a love story, a sunbae-hoobae relationship or a mother-son story would do a better job of drawing in new viewers or fans...who knows?

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

So, that question was rhetorical?

 

I know - but it's also up to my discretion as the author what to disclose when  

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way I would like to ask a question about: Why Cha Yoo-jin was uneasiness or disapproved  of Nae-il's action in Fan Fiction during the interaction with Fatima and Muhammad ? Since it's sort of sensitive subject I am hiding it

 

Since you hid your question, I'll hide the response as well (Seolleim in Salzburg spoilers ahead!):

 

Spoiler

It's the second. Yoo Jin knows that Nae Il is joining Fatima in wearing a hijab voluntarily - heck, it was her idea to begin with (i.e. no one else suggested it, she brought it up and convinced Fatima to help her). But since there are often spikes in Islamophobic rhetoric immediately after terrorist attacks like what happened in Berlin in 2016, he's worried that Nae Il (Fatima and Muhammed as well, but mostly Nae Il) would get racist looks or comments just for trying to be a friend. Remember: this whole thing started because Muhammed told Yoo Jin that Fatima was bullied by her classmates for wearing a hijab in the first place, so that's definitely going to affect how Yoo Jin sees the hijab as a general whole  

 

We all know how protective and hyper-vigilant Yoo Jin is by this point (protective because of his innate personality, and hyper-vigilance is a common symptom of PTSD), but this is an example where (as Muhammed points out), he's overstepping his boundaries: wanting to keep Nae Il safe is one thing, but he needs to learn to step back and let her figure things out on her own.

 

Maybe, now, going back to re-read that scene, this will help it make more sense   But yeah, if you do have questions about my fics, please feel free to ask: whether it's clarifying things, or whether just for behind-the-scenes tidbits  

 

Finally, speaking of Yoo Jin and Nae Il...here's what they'd sound like speaking Mandarin Chinese.

 

[EDIT] Re: that video - JW does cheat a little by saying the first sentence in Korean, but Shim Eun Kyung's greeting is entirely Chinese

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

It's the second. Yoo Jin knows that Nae Il is joining Fatima in wearing a hijab voluntarily - heck, it was her idea to begin with (i.e. no one else suggested it, she brought it up and convinced Fatima to help her). But since there are often spikes in Islamophobic rhetoric immediately after terrorist attacks like what happened in Berlin in 2016, he's worried that Nae Il (Fatima and Muhammed as well, but mostly Nae Il) would get racist looks or comments just for trying to be a friend. Remember: this whole thing started because Muhammed told Yoo Jin that Fatima was bullied by her classmates for wearing a hijab in the first place, so that's definitely going to affect how Yoo Jin sees the hijab as a general whole  

 

We all know how protective and hyper-vigilant Yoo Jin is by this point (protective because of his innate personality, and hyper-vigilance is a common symptom of PTSD), but this is an example where (as Muhammed points out), he's overstepping his boundaries: wanting to keep Nae Il safe is one thing, but he needs to learn to step back and let her figure things out on her own.

Oh,I kind of figured that Nae-il was trying to show solidarity with Fatima and that Fatima might have been subjected to discrimination because asserting her identity by wearing Hijab voluntarily. But, it sort of made me baffled that how does wearing the Hijab as a solidarity? I know I am a guy and I have my unconscious bias when it comes interpreting Women empowerment and gender issues. But this show of solidarity of wearing Hijab have picked up pace after the elections of Trump and his ban on Muslim immigrants by naming them as a threat to national security and it was mostly driven by western feminist rather than the feminist from the Muslim community. I was sort of baffled because feminist like Iranian-American "Dr. Nina Ansary, Mashid Alineja and Egyptian feminist Mona Eltahawy(Had also criticized New Zealand prime minister for doing the same thing, like wearing Hijab as a Solidarity towards Muslim community https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shootout-headscarves/new-zealand-women-face-praise-and-protests-for-donning-the-hijab-idUSKCN1R71Q9)

What I heard from these feminist that the Oppression for some humans cannot be empowering to others, since the laws in Islamic Republic of Iran and Saudi Arabia have obligatory laws which imposes Hijab on women and this kind of solidarity is in tune with the politic Islam of these oppressive regimes(It's there words not mine)

I would like to now how does it work? I mean clearly the disease here is bigotry show by few or sizeable number of right wing people against Muslim, due to their insecurities and superiority complex. So, in what way  does showing such kind of solidarity would help the victims? Again, it's just my confusion which I would like to clear-up and I am not saying that it wrong thing to do or that I am some kind of right winger. This is sort of new phenomenon which I have observed, even at the height of Islamophobic climate  after 9/11 such kind of thing was never done, so I would like to know more about this phenomenon,if you have drawn inspiration from such moments and integrated in your Fan fiction I know it's way off the tangent, but I would also like use this opportunity know diverse views on such kind of sensitive subjects

 

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Finally, speaking of Yoo Jin and Nae Il...here's what they'd sound like speaking Mandarin Chinese.

Lol, Nae-il was able to speak Mandarin with ease(Are women born linguistic experts or what? ) And it was cute and funny at the same time to see Joo won to struggle, he was sort feeling shy I must say, Naeil's cantabile did not do well in Korea but it did well on some kind of Chinese online web platform, maybe, that;s why they had made Chinese version drawing more inspiration from Korean version.

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Well, it will be what it is at this point. Generally, I think many of the actors' fans will stick through the drama regardless (fandoms in Hallyu tend to be loyal like that), but whether a love story, a sunbae-hoobae relationship or a mother-son story would do a better job of drawing in new viewers or fans...who knows?

Yeah, but I think writers should also take in consideration of Kim Hee-seo's fan also. She no ordinary actor and also has lot of international fans and she is big in main-land China also. Her fans did accept her as a mom in "Angry Mom" series, but the story and context was totally different, even thought she was mom in that series, but she played like a student for like 90% of the series screen time. So, I am still skeptical about Mom-son relationship. Perhaps, she was talking to a different son in that scene like Joo won might be the witness of some altercation between his classmate and Kim Hee-seo's son was the one who pushed someone, there's tonnes of possibilities   from just that one edited scene and dialogue 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Sushimi
Do not quote emoji gifs, thanks

[kittyna]

And...this is where we get into the "behind the scenes" aspect of my writing:

 

Spoiler

42 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Oh,I kind of figured that Nae-il was trying to show solidarity with Fatima and that Fatima might have been subjected to discrimination because asserting her identity by wearing Hijab voluntarily. But, it sort of made me baffled that how does wearing the Hijab as a solidarity? I know I am a guy and I have my unconscious bias when it comes interpreting Women empowerment and gender issues. But this show of solidarity of wearing Hijab have picked up pace after the elections of Trump and his ban on Muslim immigrants by naming them as a threat to national security and it was mostly driven by western feminist rather than the feminist from the Muslim community. I was sort of baffled because feminist like Iranian-American "Dr. Nina Ansary, Mashid Alineja and Egyptian feminist Mona Eltahawy(Had also criticized New Zealand prime minister for doing the same thing, like wearing Hijab as a Solidarity towards Muslim community https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shootout-headscarves/new-zealand-women-face-praise-and-protests-for-donning-the-hijab-idUSKCN1R71Q9)

What I heard from these feminist that the Oppression for some humans cannot be empowering to others, since the laws in Islamic Republic of Iran and Saudi Arabia have obligatory laws which imposes Hijab on women and this kind of solidarity is in tune with the politic Islam of these oppressive regimes(It's there words not mine)

 

To be fully honest, I honestly don't know what the "right" answer would be to all of this - because Muslim identity and feminism are both so vast with so many different schools of thought that just about any combination is possible somewhere. Not to mention that I'm not Muslim myself; I just had a good number of Muslim girl friends growing up, who all had slightly different views about hijab (some wore it, some didn't, one wore it to school but would loosen it up before "fixing" it before she went home, etc.) So, really, I'm just trying to do my best with a respectful depiction and interpretation in my writing  

 

That being said, I didn't really consider all the gender/identity politics or political factors involved when writing that bit of the fic: it was just simply a case of 1) knowing that non-Muslim girls in "western" countries wearing hijab short-term out of solidarity is actually a thing (it's not the norm, but it does happen), and 2) believing that if Nae Il were to become aware of this, she'd want to join in. 

 

I think that, once again, context matters. So, it's one thing to be a feminist in a place where women are obligated by law to wear hijab or any other sort of cultural or religious dress, but it's another thing to be a feminist in a place where modest or "ethnic" forms of dress are socially frowned upon. And the latter is more likely to be the case in North America, Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand, etc. So, for instance, Muslim fashion has really taken off in these places, and there are a number of young Muslim women who openly wear hijab as a way of saying, "This is who I am, this is what I choose to wear, and feminism is about being allowed to do that."

 

Of course, that doesn't change the fact that many women who wear hijab are doing so out of obligation (legal/political, social, familial, etc.) Nor does a non-Muslim woman (like Nae Il) wearing the hijab for just one day do anything to combat systemic Islamophobia in western countries.

 

But for those who - like Fatima in my fic - are actually given the choice by their families or their society, then wearing the hijab (rather than not wearing it) becomes the statement of identity - and seeing, say, non-Muslim women making that one-day statement or an increasing number of modest fashion icons and clothing lines can make them feel like they belong in a place that otherwise doesn't welcome them.

 

But again, just to reiterate: when writing the fic itself, I only thought as far as whether this was something Nae Il would do and (if so) why. She's not very politically-minded; she just did it because she's a bleeding heart.

 

42 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol, Nae-il was able to speak Mandarin with ease(Are women born linguistic experts or what? ) And it was cute and funny at the same time to see Joo won to struggle, he was sort feeling shy

 

JW was just starting to learn Mandarin at the time, so he was probably still a bit shaky. But kudos for trying anyway  

 

42 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

So, I am still skeptical about Mom-son relationship. Perhaps, she was talking to a different son in that scene like Joo won might be the witness of some altercation between his classmate and Kim Hee-seo's son was the one who pushed someone, there's tonnes of possibilities   from just that one edited scene and dialogue 

 

Or maybe (since we know JW says his mother was a time-traveller), JW's mother disappeared (or died, or whatever), and Kim Hee Sun is another time traveller who knew JW's mom or what happened to her. So, then, JW wants Kim Hee Sun to try to help him sort out this whole mess.

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

I think that, once again, context matters. So, it's one thing to be a feminist in a place where women are obligated by law to wear hijab or any other sort of cultural or religious dress, but it's another thing to be a feminist in a place where modest or "ethnic" forms of dress are socially frowned upon

Ouch! This line just hit my unconscious bias  and I am happy it did. Since I was more into reading literature about how women are treated in Arab world, I sort of forgot west not a paradise either for these same women at least not in all the cases

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

But for those who - like Fatima in my fic - are actually given the choice by their families or their society, then wearing the hijab (rather than not wearing it) becomes the statement of identity - and seeing, say, non-Muslim women making that one-day statement or an increasing number of modest fashion icons and clothing lines can make them feel like they belong in a place that otherwise doesn't welcome them.

You know when you mentioned in Fan Fiction that Fatima was into fashion designing, the first thing that popped up in my mind were designer Hijabs. In my country also Muslim women have started wearing Hijabs with design on them, like not just plain or black colored ones. I remember when I was kid I use to see women wear black Hijabs and Burkas which sort of made them look I wouldn't say different but standing out of the crowd which may not be always a good thing. But in recent times I noticed them wearing Hijabs and also Burkas with few designs on them which sort of made them look magnificent and elegant. 

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

when writing the fic itself, I only thought as far as whether this was something Nae Il would do and (if so) why. She's not very politically-minded; she just did it because she's a bleeding heart.

That's true, not just bleeding heart, she does show characteristics of a person with lions heart. Because sometimes I feel like she shows more courage than Cha Yoon-jin

 

 

 

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

Or maybe (since we know JW says his mother was a time-traveller), JW's mother disappeared (or died, or whatever), and Kim Hee Sun is another time traveller who knew JW's mom or what happened to her. So, then, JW wants Kim Hee Sun to try to help him sort out this whole mess.

I hope this doesn't turn into a Spoiler, since your theory sort of  like it is in line with story of drama's. But it would be awesome if you are right

 

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

JW's mother disappeared (or died, or whatever),

I am positive, she died or killed. So I guess he will seek Kim Hee-seo's help to solve  or catch his mother's killer. Or there is a possibility that Kim Hee-seo and his mother are friends and she asked Kim Hee seo to look after him and he might have developed his feelings towards her in the process 

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

but it's another thing to be a feminist in a place where modest or "ethnic" forms of dress are socially frowned upon

I think the diagnosis is not entirely correct here(the way a Muslim women dress was never an point of contention  at least not in North American region, it's more like European issue where they have banned headscarves since the meaning of Secularism  is interpreted in a rigid manner and in a liberal way like in North American  region), Islam is not a foreign religion for west, from time immemorial they were contacts between them. I think the Islamophobic is driven by extremism in the Middle East and rising Alt Right in Europe and North American region. It was never about dress code, it was always about deep seated fear and misinformed majority. In my country we have similar case, since Muslim population is about 12% of India, and rising majoritarian ideology had demonized them completely. But here we try to have dialogue and awareness and bring people together. And it is working slowly but surely it did made impact with peaceful protest and asserting their rights as equal citizens. I think I am not able to completely on board  with this is maybe because of the literature written by above feminist, they sort of made compelling argument when it comes to how to actually help Muslim feminist. But I do thing at the end of the day it all boils down to  one word "CHOICE" which is sort of luxury for women in one hemisphere and norm in other hemisphere, and like you not all your Muslim friends use to wear Hijab and solidarity is something which should go beyond symbolism and the way I see it after 2018 it just died down and didn't do much for Muslim women or for that matter it failed to create  an awareness or sensitivity or compromise  with  the right wing camp, since a compromise is must to live peaceful life and whether we like it or not it is only long term solution "COMPROMISE" 

And lastly I would like to conclude by saying that, the present freedom, prosperity and peaceful environment enjoyed by men like me in west and in India is due to the Feminist like "Betty Freidan and Savitrabhai phula"  etc and  their knack to question status quo; going beyond solidarity, and their  revolution is no less than the Industrial or Agriculture. And I do  like to make some comments about the Buzz video you posted, as a guy I will never know what it likes to be women and particularly a women from minority community living in a hostile environment, but to fight for the rights of the women is not this way and it looked like very superficial and more importantly sort of a music video which purpose is not empowerment of women but to get likes and views. I am sorry but I have to say it "it's like monetization of the Feminist Moment" . Again it's my view and does have lot of Unconscious bias in it .

Dr. Nina Ansary and Journalist Masih Alinejad

Mona Eltahawy: Mona Eltahawy: This article contains lot of indecent language but it is very thought provoking 

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/06/do-non-muslims-help-or-hurt-women-by-wearing-hijabs/wearing-the-hijab-in-solidarity-perpetuates-oppression

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/06/do-non-muslims-help-or-hurt-women-by-wearing-hijabs/in-my-life-headscarves-have-been-symbols-of-oppression-not-solidarity

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2016/01/06/do-non-muslims-help-or-hurt-women-by-wearing-hijabs/muslims-need-more-than-just-symbolic-solidarity

One of many solution

https://thewire.in/gender/mona-eltahawy-interview-islam

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/04/24/muslim-women-islam-headscarves-hijab-saudi-arabia-column/3540144002/

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111462185/my-issue-with-kiwis-being-encouraged-to-wear-headscarves-in-solidarity

Your arguments were pretty compelling, but I think I would also like to put my thoughts into the issue 

[kittyna]

Spoiler

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think the diagnosis is not entirely correct here(the way a Muslim women dress was never an point of contention  at least not in North American region, it's more like European issue where they have banned headscarves since the meaning of Secularism  is interpreted in a rigid manner and in a liberal way like in North American  region)

 

That's not entirely true re: North America, although I sometimes wish it was. In reality, it depends on where exactly you are and who you ask. So, say, for me, living in the Toronto area, then most people are very strongly for multiculturalism, letting people observe their religions as they wish provided it's done voluntarily and by choice, etc., but at the same time, the province of Quebec instituted a law banning public and civil service employees from wearing any sort of religious dress in attempts to preserve rigid secularism (and even though the law is worded to apply to all religions equally, the public opinion is that it's predominantly aimed at Muslim women). This all within a single country (Canada), let alone what degree of variation we might see in the USA.

 

I do concede, however, that overt legislation against hijab or other religious practices is more an issue in Europe, where the Middle East forms the largest part of the (anti-)immigration debate. Not to mention that, compared to North America, European countries have a stronger claim of a "pure" or "original" culture that the alt-right claims is being threatened by ethnic and religious minorities. It isn't right, but that's how it is.

 

By the way: thanks for pointing out how things are in India right now; I'd heard a little bit in the news here and there, but was definitely confused for the most part. It makes more sense now  

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think the Islamophobic is driven by extremism in the Middle East and rising Alt Right in Europe and North American region. It was never about dress code, it was always about deep seated fear and misinformed majority.

 

Agreed - the matter of religious dress is simply the catalyst, not the actual crux of the problem. The presence of things like the hijab or mosques or halal food stores/restaurants are only targeted by alt-right rhetoric because they are the most visible signs of a Muslim community in North America or Europe - but the actual issue is, as you pointed out, driven by something far darker.

 

And, unfortunately for Europe and North America, some of their own pre-existing racial prejudices are fueling this vicious cycle: at least some young people are becoming radicalized and extremist because, well, "You say I'm the bad guy, then I'll be the bad guy." It's immature and it's reactionary, and it's wrong, but that is partially what's fueling radicalism - and that radicalism leads to violence, which adds to the fear and hatred that pushes even more young people over the edge.

 

I will say that I don't know much in terms of theory or scholarship, but this TED talk about the weird limbo young Muslims in Europe are caught in actually influenced me a lot in creating Muhammed and Fatima as characters in my fic. 

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

solidarity is something which should go beyond symbolism and the way I see it after 2018 it just died down and didn't do much for Muslim women or for that matter it failed to create  an awareness or sensitivity or compromise  with  the right wing camp, since a compromise is must to live peaceful life and whether we like it or not it is only long term solution "COMPROMISE" 

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And I do  like to make some comments about the Buzz video you posted, as a guy I will never know what it likes to be women and particularly a women from minority community living in a hostile environment, but to fight for the rights of the women is not this way and it looked like very superficial and more importantly sort of a music video which purpose is not empowerment of women but to get likes and views. I am sorry but I have to say it "it's like monetization of the Feminist Moment" .

 

That's a fair judgment, and I'm with you in being skeptical of token gestures of solidarity or those bursts of social media "wokeness" that happen with every single news cycle. The way I see it, gestures like this are purely reactive in nature: I can't fault the good intentions of people who do take part in these social media or Instagram-worthy campaigns (like, yes, it generates buzz and likes, but I do think at least some - or even most - genuinely care), but I'm realistic enough to realize that it's a gesture that just passes and fizzles out once real-life concerns (school, work, etc.) come back in.

 

[EDIT] 

 

I hadn't had a chance to read the articles you included when I initially replied, but now that I have looked at some of them, they're quite an eye-opener. To be honest, I was apprehensive at first, because I thought I'd just get the classic (and, in the hands of the wrong people, ultimately Orientalist and Islamophobic) rebuttal of, "Yeah, right, Islam gives women a choice: go to a 'real' Muslim country and you'll see otherwise!", but what I saw instead was an even broader spectrum of diversity than I initially imagined. Again, it's not that there aren't women who are compelled or forced to wear a veil or any other sort of modest dress (this is the case in North America and Europe as well, albeit on a familial or social rather than legislative level), but that the automatic mental association non-Muslims make between hijab and Muslim identity is not actually so clear-cut.

 

I was aware of that to some extent: one tidbit about my characters that I ultimately couldn't include in the fic is that Fatima's parents actually encourage her not to wear the hijab, especially after they find out about the bullying, but that she wants to do it anyway. I changed the reference to being about Christmas celebrations instead (since we see them all decorating a tree), but you get the idea.  

 

No "spoilers" for this next reply, since it's something that I think can be discussed openly without giving away too much from my fics  

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That's true, not just bleeding heart, she does show characteristics of a person with lions heart. Because sometimes I feel like she shows more courage than Cha Yoon-jin

 

Agreed. I think both of them are courageous in their own way, but Nae Il is bold whereas Yoo Jin is dogged, if that makes sense. So, say, Nae Il is willing to just jump into a situation, and she's also willing to explore and try new things. In comparison, Yoo Jin is courageous in terms of how he overcomes his own inner demons, but he generally tends to be more reserved and cautious.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I hope this doesn't turn into a Spoiler, since your theory sort of  like it is in line with story of drama's. But it would be awesome if your right

 

lol - That would be funny, wouldn't it? Personally, I doubt that - I'm not that good - but it would be interesting if that is how Alice turns out.

[kireeti2]

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

 

Spoiler

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

the province of Quebec instituted a law banning public and civil service employees from wearing any sort of religious dress

Yeah, I head it too, I found it hypocritical in nature. Like this province as a cross on their province flag, if I am not right. Like if they want to promote secularism they should start by changing the flag like "charity should start at your home". I completely agree with you, that these sort of reformation of Muslims religion is often used as ammunition by Alt-right groups, everywhere. In India like I have pointed out there was this issue with triple-talaq, it was used by Alt-right member groups to target Muslim men.Yes, the law is draconian and violates the right to equality and Life. As women are not allowed to do the same and they don't get any maintenance. But the majoritarian government went a further and made the civil dispute as criminal, now triple talaq is illegal but it attracts jail time if husband refuses to pay maintenance, this jail time is not awarded to other religious men if they violated the same provision. So this is the classic example how reformation of Muslim religion is often taken advantage by Alt-right, this is sort of preventing liberal Muslims and Muslims who wants to reform their religion and resistance from conservative Muslims.

 

 

Spoiler

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

I hadn't had a chance to read the articles you included when I initially replied, but now that I have looked at some of them, they're quite an eye-opener. To be honest, I was apprehensive at first, because I thought I'd just get the classic (and, in the hands of the wrong people, ultimately Orientalist and Islamophobic) rebuttal of, "Yeah, right, Islam gives women a choice: go to a 'real' Muslim country and you'll see otherwise!", but what I saw instead was an even broader spectrum of diversity than I initially imagined. Again, it's not that there aren't women who are compelled or forced to wear a veil or any other sort of modest dress (this is the case in North America and Europe as well, albeit on a familial or social rather than legislative level), but that the automatic mental association non-Muslims make between hijab and Muslim identity is not actually so clear-cut.

I am glad you didn't take it in the wrong way, on top of that I was taken-back by your reply. Since no matter how much we modernize deep down we all are tribal in nature and would like to cling on to our beliefs and opinion and will not let others say otherwise and I sort of thought that maybe my reply was reactionary in nature because after typing my reply and reading it, it sort of gave me an impression of person who was lashing-out, but it all started with that Buzz video, the other video was informative but the buzz video made me think, wait I should take this opportunity and promote about real Muslim world Feminist who are trying to reform and fights for the rights of the Women. Here I was like thinking that "Did I just went too far? I was like maybe I should have your know let it go" . And I was like maybe you might think like "Why is this guy preaching like he knows the hardship of minority women?" Sort of things were on mind while I was sleeping

I was mentally preparing myself to write an apology for going too far. But I am glad we are able to rebut and have discourse in amicable way and also I happy who found the articles compelling and diverse in nature, since these women are often labelled as western agents, right wing agents and given all sorts of smackss for giving their opinion and calling for reforms. You can checkout in the comment sections of the videos like how much smack they get for voicing their opinions. And out of all these wonderful ladies, my favorite is "Mona Eltanhawy" she is so badass and always right on the point. I would also like to suggest to read the books of Dr. Nina Ansary if you could get a chance, she rationally evaluated the plights of the Muslim Women in her book "Jewel of Allah: The untold stories of Iranian Women" ,and the other book is about women in general like  contribution of women in science,art, governing  in her latest book "Anonymous Is a Woman: A Global Chronicle of Gender Inequality"

By the thanks for sharing that ted talk video, now I can follow another brave women and learn from her, she does looks familiar and I think I did saw that video some where but sort lost from my memory, nevertheless, thanks it was refreshing to know that she is your inspiration for creating character like Fatima and I found her character more intriguing than Muhammad's, since women have hard time navigating in west due to their obligation towards their family and their personal freedom

And lastly she also spoke about the Hijab issue in North American context

Mona Eltahawy

P.S: I am not endorsing or trying to propagate these wonderful women ideology because they look westernized or doesn't wear Hijab or Burka, but I find they have sane and rational approach towards feminism(but not Mona Eltahawy she is just like use the F word against every misogynist a very passionate woman). But the moot point is they were not against religion but against the rigid interpretation of Islam(mostly done by men), nowhere in the holy book it was return that women should wear this or do that or follow men, but it was only written that they should dress modestly that's it. They bring an important aspect to the table that is reforming of Islam by more liberal Muslims, like more women taking lead in prayer(personally I would join the prayer if a woman is leading it) rise of status of women in middle east not just in terms of economics but also in terms of sexual freedom. The controlling of sexual freedom women was starting of patriarchy not the land, money or power, at least that was the case in India, which perpetuated the caste system in my country in the name of purity. So I was attracted to these feminist ideology because they talk about choice of women not just about what to wear, but basic personal freedom like sexual freedom

Another towering personality  from West Africa "Stella Nyanzi"  fighting for Human Rights(LGBT,WOMEN specifically) to say that such kind of ideology is not only prevalent among Middle Eastern feminist but it is a world wide phenomenon