Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Well, I have to give credit where credit's due: even though I haven't watched Nodame Cantabile or its sequels, I did look up synopses of what happens there - so I should probably come clean now.

Yeah, but still, your fan-fiction made me imagine the scenes like it was actually happening, and more over it was well integrated with Nae-il's cantabile story line, like I never get to imagine Japanese version, though I have seen first part and not the sequel, it did not made me think about it at all I mean Korea version completely dominated thinking although it was written on the lines of Japanese version,so kudos for that. And another reason that I have enjoyed reading the fan-fiction is because it was the first time I every read something which come close to fiction books, I usually read non-fiction books a lot.

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Thanks for the pics! I'm still getting used to the fact that fire fighters in Korea wear orange uniforms, to be honest: in North America, at least, that's what prison uniforms look like, which means that that association from North American TV shows and movies is a bit hard for me to shake  

Even in Canada it is orange? Lol! I guess Canadian system does have a lot in common with American systems, I hope you guys only copied the Uniform color and not the entire Justice system, because American justice system kind of sucks. It's same all over the world but American system is not in lines of reformations, and they usually award more jail sentence than a convict deserve. It must have to do something with  private-run prison systems and few corrupt judges 

[kittyna]

Behind-the-scenes pics from Alice - It looks like they've finally wrapped shooting  The pics were posted by one of the cameramen(?), and running the caption through Google Translate, it looks like they're from the end of filming.

 

And some inspirational advice from Gyun Woo - I don't remember where exactly this quote's from, though. It's similar to the lecture he gives in China in the first episode, but there's enough that's different that I don't think that's it.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Even in Canada it is orange? Lol! I guess Canadian system does have a lot in common with American systems, I hope you guys only copied the Uniform color and not the entire Justice system, because American justice system kind of sucks. It's same all over the world but American system is not in lines of reformations, and they usually award more jail sentence than a convict deserve. It must have to do something with  private-run prison systems and few corrupt judges 

 

To be honest, I don't know what exactly Canada's judicial system is like, especially in regards to convictions, imprisonments, etc.

[kireeti2]

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

The pics were posted by one of the cameramen(?), and running the caption through Google Translate, it looks like they're from the end of filming.

I guess it is the wrap up photo shoot, I can see Joo won and Kim Hee Seon in a group photo. But we have to wait for another 2 months to see the drama

[kireeti2]

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

And some inspirational advice from Gyun Woo - I don't remember where exactly this quote's from, though. It's similar to the lecture he gives in China in the first episode, but there's enough that's different that I don't think that's it.

Interesting quote, as far as I know Confucius is the guy who always championed looking in the past to avoid mistakes in present and to find solution for present problems. But it is sort of confusing because the past is always judged by present parameters which means that present situations is bound to be different than past, so my doubt is whether Confucius made provision to Taylor the past solution according to the present? Or it should be implemented as it is so that to avoid  repeat the past mistakes?

Sometimes I feel like Confucius contradict himself, like his philosophy emerged as a counter to Taoism, which is to question the status quo and rigidity. Since Taoism always likes to go with the flow and humans should not interfere with that flow. But in the end Confucius sorted of ended up exactly like  Taoist because his philosophy sorted created it's own way and disturbing that way is not desirable

 

More updates from Symphony's Romance: So, the main lead left a note saying that he is off to do his conducting with Mater Fei She Er as per the contract he signed and asked the female lead to practice with her passion and excel. Back in china "RS" orchestra is (maybe acronym for Rising Star group of Korean version) is struggling to get concerts and they are sort of on their own. Even after performing in with best conductor didn't help them much, which sounds realistic, in Korean version the group sort of got fame instantly due to Cha Yoo Jin and Nae-il. In this version they took a realistic option to portray the RS orchestra journey to success. And by the way second lead came to the rescue to female lead as she was struggling to cope in absence of male lead. The room mate of the female lead sort has crush on second lead, so I guess second lead will also have his fair share of romance, to justify Symphony's Love title .

P.S: As expected female lead's teacher is father of male lead, I am  guessing he still doesn't know that she the girlfriend of his son and they seem to be getting on well. He does cherish her as his student

 

[kittyna]

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

as far as I know Confucius is the guy who always championed looking in the past to avoid mistakes in present and to find solution for present problems. But it is sort of confusing because the past is always judged by present parameters which means that present situations is bound to be different than past, so my doubt is whether Confucius made provision to Taylor the past solution according to the present? Or it should be implemented as it is so that to avoid  repeat the past mistakes?

 

I think it is the idea of self-reflection, or looking back at history so as not to repeat the same mistakes. Of course, each generation is socialized to a slightly different cultural norm, such that we are now centuries removed from things that were considered right in the past.

 

However, even if those parameters have changed, human nature (or human psychology, if you prefer) hasn't: we are prone to the same thoughts, feelings, and impulses inside as our ancestors were, and here is where we need to reflect on the past, I think.

 

So, one good example of this I came across recently consists of a thought experiment posed by a history professor to his students: what would they have done if they were white Americans during the time of slavery? Because the students involved now live in the 21st century and have a very clear sense that the Transatlantic Slave Trade and anti-Black racism were wrong, they all said they would have been abolitionists back then. Except, as the professor then pointed out, that's not likely if the students truly lived in that historical context: if they grew up believing that slavery and racial hierarchies were normal (as they would have back then), the vast majority of them would have just accepted it.

 

What this means, for me anyway, is that we judge the past through present standards and parameters because we live in the present - not because we're actually any better. Placed in the same context as those in the past, we would have acted in the exact same way as those in the past - and that's what we need to be careful about. Again, I think Confucianism's goal here is for people to reflect on their own personal faults and the mistakes and sins those faults leave them susceptible to.

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Sometimes I feel like Confucius contradict himself, like his philosophy emerged as a counter to Taoism, which is to question the status quo and rigidity. Since Taoism always likes to go with the flow and humans should not interfere with that flow. But in the end Confucius sorted of ended up exactly like  Taoist because his philosophy sorted created it's own way and disturbing that way is not desirable

 

I wish I knew more on distinguishing between Confucianism and Taoism - whereas Korea during the Joseon Era really set a strong distinction between them (they were adamant about studying Neo-Confucianism and frowned on references to Buddhism and Taoism), Chinese culture is generally a bit of a blend.

 

What I do know, though, is that whereas Taoism is about going with the flow and letting things run their course, using nature as the example (i.e. that just like everything works out in nature, so too will it work out in life), Confucianism was (ideally!) more about controlling the self so that an ethical social order would naturally emerge. Again, that's far easier said than done, but that's the impression I got. So...same goal, different ways to get there...? Maybe?

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Back in china "RS" orchestra is (maybe acronym for Rising Star group of Korean version) is struggling to get concerts and they are sort of on their own. Even after performing in with best conductor didn't help them much, which sounds realistic, in Korean version the group sort of got fame instantly due to Cha Yoo Jin and Nae-il

 

It might be Nae Il's Cantabile trying to wrap everything up into a neat little package - or that the production gives viral online success more credit than it's worth  Realistically, neither Cha Yoo Jin, Seol Nae Il, nor Rising Star would be famous right now - and that's also why I downplay the fame aspect in Seolleim in Salzburg. Rather than get lots of media attention, I think they're just all going to be young musicians doing their thing (studying, practicing, rehearsing, performing - even if it's just smaller local gigs) and enjoying what they do - honestly, I think the only one who actually cares whether they become famous or not is Chae Do Kyung (and you'll note in my fics that I've denied her that fame).

 

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

As expected female lead's teacher is father of male lead, I am  guessing he still doesn't know that she the girlfriend of his son and they seem to be getting on well. He does cherish her as his student

 

Aw...well, here's hoping that part works out - and maybe even some sort of reconciliation with the male lead is on the horizon as well  

[kireeti2]

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

Confucianism was (ideally!) more about controlling the self so that an ethical social order would naturally emerge. Again, that's far easier said than done, but that's the impression I got. So...same goal, different ways to get there...? Maybe?

While searching for more insights I stumbled upon on this video, did Confucius said to defend parents even they did something wrong?(at 2:22)

 

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

studying Neo-Confucianism and frowned on references to Buddhism

Lol! Where did Buddha came from? as far as I know he never preached any ritual to perform nor he gave any indication that one should be obedient to anyone, all he said was suffering is because of desire.

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

Aw...well, here's hoping that part works out - and maybe even some sort of reconciliation with the male lead is on the horizon as well

I think this version is more in line with Nae-il's cantabile, so I guess they will be a reconciliation between them, and on top of that female lead will make sure that they'll forgive each other

 

Can you shed more light on this passage from second Analects, I don't know if it authentic or not: "In the second passage in the Analects, the disciple You Ruo 有若 says a person who behaves with filial piety to parents and siblings (xiao and di 弟), and who avoids going against superiors, will rarely disorder society"

I know with blood ties comes loyalty and a sense of protecting one's family members no matter what. But the avoiding going against superior? Does it apply in scenario where the superior had committed and unlawful act? Or does it mean to follow the Deontology principle? Does it mean that one doesn't have any discretion to judge if an act is good or bad according to his own understanding? (P.S: Forgive me if my questions are too silly in nature) But I do feel like most of the principles foster conformity, like I know that Confucius grew up during phase of "Warring States", where stability was not the norm, but still, I find principles rigid and narrow in nature.Is it fair say that  Confucius was naive to think that person in power will never get corrupt? And also,  is it fair to say that he thought human nature is  something that would  never change? Like doing ritual may have its benefits, but from time to time everything changes and so does the nature of human and the way he does the rituals. And also,  human nature sometimes stays in equilibrium state but as the time passes the state tends to movie toward dynamic state and tries to reinvent itself.

Spoiler

( For example in China during cultural revolution Confucius principles were totally discarded and the leaders of that time went as far saying it was against the well being of the Chinese citizen and now the same Chinese government with different leadership is opening Confucius schools in every country, of course it is to promote its soft power and also to foster more obedient and loyal citizens back home)

By the way this is my source

 

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

did Confucius said to defend parents even they did something wrong?(at 2:22)

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Can you shed more light on this passage from second Analects, I don't know if it authentic or not: "In the second passage in the Analects, the disciple You Ruo 有若 says a person who behaves with filial piety to parents and siblings (xiao and di 弟), and who avoids going against superiors, will rarely disorder society"

I know with blood ties comes loyalty and a sense of protecting one's family members no matter what. But the avoiding going against superior? Does it apply in scenario where the superior had committed and unlawful act? Or does it mean to follow the Deontology principle? Does it mean that one doesn't have any discretion to judge if an act is good or bad according to his own understanding? (P.S: Forgive me if my questions are too silly in nature)

 

Well, I'm neither a philosopher nor a historian, so I'm certainly no expert on the subject. All I can give, really, is what I've observed from lived experience growing up in a household that claims to adhere to Confucian principles and from watching dramas produced and set in a culture that also claims to adhere to those principles (i.e. Korea )

 

Adherence to hierarchy and filial piety are probably the most visible and tangible aspects of Confucianism, but again, they're only part of a much bigger picture. Even in the video you posted, I think the emphasis is on the Five Constant Virtues: benevolence, righteousness, ritual propriety (i.e. etiquette, hierarchy, etc.), wisdom, and integrity. Remember: Confucius's teachings were initially directed at government leaders and his ultimate goal was to create an ethical society through reforming those who held sway, trying to get them to follow virtues passed down to them by their ancestors rather than their own earthly wants (like that official in the video who just rides horses and womanizes all day). 

 

I think you do raise an important question: what is a junior/child/hoobae/whatever-else-you-want-to-call-it to do when their seniors/elders/leaders/etc. commit unlawful or immoral actions? I'm not 100% where Confucius himself would stand on this, but I know that the reality is something of a spectrum. JW, for instance, was quite a hardliner on this point when he was younger: he insisted that even if one's elders were wrong, one should never scold or reprimand them and any girl who he caught doing that was a write-off for him romantically speaking.

 

I don't know if his stance has changed since then, but for me...the way I was taught, there's a bit more leeway than that. At its most basic, the parent-child relationship works like this. Parents are responsible for teaching their children right and wrong, and children are expected to obey their elders, both in thanks for the love and care they (ideally) provide, and in deference to all the extra years of lived experience parents would have. Or, as a popular Cantonese saying puts it: "We've eaten more salt than you have rice". However, as the children grow older, they are also responsible for encouraging their parents to continue on that same righteous path they started on and not to grow lax with age. In other words: if my parents raised me right, I should have enough ethical/moral knowledge to notice when they're breaking the rules and point that out. Nicely, of course (yelling at your elders is still a no-no), but a child should not stay silent under those circumstances.

 

Point is: there's a huge difference between respecting your elders and blindly obeying them or condoning their actions.

 

If you look closely, this is the biggest "type" of generational conflict that shows up in K-dramas: an adult child realizes that his/her parents have done something illegal/immoral/etc....now what? Usually, resolution in these dramas comes from the child using a variety of measures to bring their elders back around (whether by revealing their wrongdoings to the authorities or media, by sacrificing themselves for their parents in hopes that would wake them up to their sins, etc.), and an actual break in the relationship (like what we see between Kim Tae Hyun and his father in Yong Pal) only happens when that repentance isn't possible.

 

So what about that stolen sheep example? lol - The way I was taught, just letting it slide or covering for the parent wouldn't be an appropriate response  But be that as it may, if I were to try to make sense of it...my guess would be that it's based on the reality that a parent who steals a sheep probably is doing so out of desperation rather than out of corruption or greed - in other words, that it is important for a child to understand that even if a parent does something wrong, it's possible (not always, but possible) that their intentions were actually good, or that they were only doing what they thought was best for the child's well-being. 

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I do feel like most of the principles foster conformity, like I know that Confucius grew up during phase of "Warring States", where stability was not the norm, but still, I find principles rigid and narrow in nature

 

Yeah, it is meant to foster conformity to some extent - which is why we see that in its legacy today in East Asian cultures (with Japan being the big one here for retaining that desire for conformity, I think). As for China, as you pointed out, the Cultural Revolution was a massive upheaval, because the Communist Party wanted people to support them over their own parents, teachers, etc. Nowadays, though, I feel like urban Chinese society, at least, worships money as much as any other place in the world  

 

Still, if this sort of cultural comparison is what interests you, I recently watched a TED talk that explained the difference between domestic and international responses to the lockdown in Wuhan due to COVID-19. It's pretty interesting stuff. (Note: it was filmed in April 2020, so views - especially in the West - have probably shifted significantly since then. At least they have in Canada, where - after seeing the complete mess that is the US right now - we're a lot more open to things like mandatory mask rules, contact tracing apps, etc..)

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol! Where did Buddha came from? as far as I know he never preached any ritual to perform nor he gave any indication that one should be obedient to anyone, all he said was suffering is because of desire.

 

I brought up Buddhism because whereas Chinese cultural philosophy is a blend of Confucian, Taoist, and Buddhist ideas, Korea (due to a strong shift towards Confucianism and away from Buddhism during the Joseon era) has overtly stronger Confucian influences today.

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think this version is more in line with Nae-il's cantabile, so I guess they will be a reconciliation between them, and on top of that female lead will make sure that they'll forgive each other

 

I hope so, too  By the way, now's a good time to point out that after a short hiatus, work on Seolleim in Salzburg has resumed! So, will I do such a reconciliation in my fics? You'll have to wait to find out.

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

mandatory mask rules, contact tracing apps, etc.

I totally agree with mandatory mask, since it not only curbs the spread of virus but also flattens the curve. I am still skeptical about contact tracing apps, at least in my country, our government as no privacy law in place and they use my personal data(Here I am using the word personal data, because there is an argument that social media website also has my data and what's wrong if government as it, but the thing is the data these websites have is non-personal data, which means they cannot identify me with the data I had provided to them and government can zero-in on me with my personal data)  as they wish. But these contact tracing apps are only effective in advanced economies where smartphone penetration is high and has a data law protection in place, for ex: like Canada , they put it in place data protection act long back during SARS outbreak. So if a solution in one country might not be a solution in another country, if not it might end up creating mayhem

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I recently watched a TED talk

  Really informative and thought provoking video. I thin what she said is right, now that everyone is aware of the inequalities faced by his/her fellow citizen, this pandemic may actually serve as a reset button to bridge those inequalities

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

JW, for instance, was quite a hardliner on this point when he was younger: he insisted that even if one's elders were wrong, one should never scold or reprimand them and any girl who he caught doing that was a write-off for him romantically speaking.

Joo won has always been consisted with his ideal type, he said he will always look for a girl who treats elder people with respect, back then it never made any sense to me, like it was natural for someone to treat the old with respect, but now I understand what he actually means. If we see the qualities listed by Joo won for his Ideal type, I think it is fair to say that he is looking for a stable personal life rather than drama or excitement

[kittyna]

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I totally agree with mandatory mask, since it not only curbs the spread of virus but also flattens the curve. I am still skeptical about contact tracing apps, at least in my country, our government as no privacy law in place and they use my personal data(Here I am using the word personal data, because there is an argument that social media website also has my data and what's wrong if government as it, but the thing is the data these websites have is non-personal data, which means they cannot identify me with the data I had provided to them and government can zero-in on me with my personal data)  as they wish. But these contact tracing apps are only effective in advanced economies where smartphone penetration is high and has a data law protection in place, for ex: like Canada , they put it in place data protection act long back during SARS outbreak. So if a solution in one country might not be a solution in another country, if not it might end up creating mayhem

 

Well, not everyone is for contact tracing - just like not everyone is for requiring masks here. However, I guess (like the speaker in the TED video), I'm still Chinese enough that I'm pretty indifferent either way. If it helps to stop the disease from spreading out of control, I'm okay with inconveniencing myself with wearing a mask outdoors. And actually, that's the case for the majority of Canadians I've seen as well  

 

Right now, though, an actual official contact tracing app or a similar service connected to people's phones (which, incidentally for possible fic reference purposes, was done in both Korea and Austria, from what I've heard) is not yet available in Canada: it's in development and was supposed to have been ready a few days ago, but not yet.

 

But I do agree that Canada - especially East Asian Canadians - has past experience from SARS. So even while COVID-19 was still in China, we were adopting things like masks right away: just voluntarily as a particular ethnic/cultural community rather than a government-recommended thing, though. And I'd also argue that Korea had the same epidemic readiness due to MERS several years back.

 

Speaking of different solutions in different countries: I still remember when Italy was placed under lockdown and people went, "Yeah, that might have worked in China, but like hell that's gonna work in a liberal democracy." But it did: not just in Italy, but in many places in Europe. So right now, from my perspective here, it feels more like the US is the outlier than anything else.

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Joo won has always been consisted with his ideal type, he said he will always look for a girl who treats elder people with respect, back then it never made any sense to me, like it was natural for someone to treat the old with respect, but now I understand what he actually means. If we see the qualities listed by Joo won for his Ideal type, I think it is fair to say that he is looking for a stable personal life rather than drama or excitement

 

I think that if JW had coupled those expectations with a certain degree of machismo, then it would have been problematic: like, if he strongly believed in the older gender-based hierarchy as well as the age-based one. However, JW does have a strong respect towards women. It may still be based off patriarchy (e.g. the way he acted like it was his duty to shelter/make things easier for Choi Kang Hee when she guested on 1N2D because she was a girl), but I personally am okay with that. Better a guy that's too accommodating or nurturing than one who's just all "my word is law because I'm the man!".

 

And, like you, I can also see a desire for a stable and loving home life, with minimal spousal or generational conflict. 

[kittyna]

Cute lovey-dovey pics from Symphony Romance - And now I kinda wish that Nae Il's Cantabile had more images like this (especially that dumpling shot - so cute!). Or that I actually had the drawing skills to do illustrations for Seolleim in Salzburg - but since I don't, imagination will just have to suffice 

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

just voluntarily as a particular ethnic/cultural community rather than a government-recommended thing, though

Yeah, I did heard that wearing mask is normal in East Asia, first I thought it was precaution to not to get sick, since most of the East Asian are workaholic and they wouldn't want to miss they office due to sickness, but it turns out mask is often worn when he/she is sick so that to others don't get sick because of them

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Speaking of different solutions in different countries: I still remember when Italy was placed under lockdown and people went, "Yeah, that might have worked in China, but like hell that's gonna work in a liberal democracy." But it did: not just in Italy, but in many places in Europe. So right now, from my perspective here, it feels more like the US is the outlier than anything else.

I really wouldn't compare the lock downs implemented in liberal democracies and in authoritarian countries. Context is still relevant, lock down as policy is a neutral term and the way it is implemented is key in understanding it's impact on the citizens. What I had heard from the international media is that lock down in china was notorious in nature, like there were reports of starvation and not being empathetic towards citizens with special needs. These things will not happen in liberal democracies, again the utilitarian aspect of Chinese policy does exclude few people who are more vulnerable than others. China was not only country which was successful in curbing the spread of virus but so did the South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong( since it is still a one country  two system policy type arrangement, so operational aspects do vary from mainland), Ice land, Germany; all these countries were able to curb the spread without making their citizens give up their rights or state loosing it's control over citizens, it's more like these countries found their "Golden Mean" when it comes to striking a balance between individual rights and overall society well being.

P.S: I am not trying to making it one look like  one country vs other, its just I am trying to point out that having a social contract with a state which respects it's citizens rights even during in extraordinary situation like pandemic will be able to have a stable political environment and is more beneficial in the long run

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/chinas-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-brutal-but-effective

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3048208/left-home-six-days-disabled-chinese-boy-dies-after-carer-dad-and

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I think that if JW had coupled those expectations with a certain degree of machismo, then it would have been problematic: like, if he strongly believed in the older gender-based hierarchy as well as the age-based one. However, JW does have a strong respect towards women. It may still be based off patriarchy (e.g. the way he acted like it was his duty to shelter/make things easier for Choi Kang Hee when she guested on 1N2D because she was a girl), but I personally am okay with that. Better a guy that's too accommodating or nurturing than one who's just all "my word is law because I'm the man!".

 

And, like you, I can also see a desire for a stable and loving home life, with minimal spousal or generational conflict. 

He was courteous and considerate to every female guest that appeared in 1 Night 2 Days show. Does speaks the volumes of his respect towards women. I did find him conservative when in a talk show "Witch Hunt" and in his interviews, where he said he doesn't like when woman in skirt and he prefers woman who dress modestly. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have dressing preference, since women also have dressing preference when it comes to men, but there is lot of difference in saying "I don't like women in skirt" and "I will not let my girl/wife wear skirt" so I guess it is just a preference and not imposition of his idea

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Cute lovey-dovey pics from Symphony Romance - And now I kinda wish that Nae Il's Cantabile had more images like this (especially that dumpling shot - so cute!). Or that I actually had the drawing skills to do illustrations for Seolleim in Salzburg - but since I don't, imagination will just have to suffice 

LOL! It's just tip of the iceberg, there are lot of scenes where my heart literally melted while watching their cute romance. But on side note, I find feel lead in this series is trying too hard to act cute and innocent, where as Nae-il's character cuteness and innocence sort of feels organic, like it feel natural, in the Chinese version the voice kind of ruins it for the female lead when ever she tries to act cute, maybe it's just me because it is first time that I am watching a Chinese drama, maybe it's the language issue for me

[kittyna]

19 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

China was not only country which was successful in curbing the spread of virus but so did the South Korea, New Zealand, Australia, Hong Kong( since it is still a one country  two system policy type arrangement, so operational aspects do vary from mainland), Ice land, Germany; all these countries were able to curb the spread without making their citizens give up their rights or state loosing it's control over citizens, it's more like these countries found their "Golden Mean" when it comes to striking a balance between individual rights and overall society well being.

 

For me, my question isn't about China: this is about how well physical distancing measures worked in Europe, Australia, Korea, etc. 

 

I'm just saying that when word first got out that Italy was planning a lockdown, there were some voices here in North America that said, "But how would that even work - isn't that a violation of their personal rights?" So there was some skepticism that it would be effective, or expectation that there would be a popular protest against the idea. However, that's not what actually happened, and I personally like to think that liberal democracies where restrictions and physical distancing measures were successful (e.g. Italy, Germany, Canada, etc.) succeeded because the citizens were looking out for each other and willing to make sacrifices for the public good.

 

Spoiler

So I'm just bewildered that a lot of people in the States (not the majority, just...a lot of people) don't seem to have gotten that memo yet. Mind you: I understand that accelerating the reopening process is because people's livelihoods are at stake, since the USA doesn't have as much of a financial safety net for individual citizens (e.g. paid sick leave, public health care, etc.) compared to many other developed countries. And if that's why people were against physical distancing measures...I get that. But what's confused me so far is how many people have made these rules a matter of personal rights and freedoms: like, does your right to wear whatever you want really matter when your not wearing a mask could potentially kill someone? Somehow, for a lot of Americans, yes. And I genuinely don't get that.

 

31 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

I did find him conservative when in a talk show "Witch Hunt" and in his interviews, where he said he doesn't like when woman in skirt and he prefers woman who dress modestly. It's not necessarily a bad thing to have dressing preference, since women also have dressing preference when it comes to men, but there is lot of difference in saying "I don't like women in skirt" and "I will not let my girl/wife wear skirt" so I guess it is just a preference and not imposition of his idea

 

I remember him talking about this on Happy Together with the Fashion King cast: he said that he thought the short skirts that were so popular in Korea were impractical (which might not be true, but it's an understandable assumption) and that he "didn't know where to look" when his female classmates wore them. I think he's cool with longer skirts, though? Maybe?

 

Again, that's something that could potentially be patriarchal or sexist (like he's pinning responsibility for his own inappropriate(?) thoughts on the girls), but given the rest of his behaviour, I doubt that's the case. Or, at least I hope not.

 

43 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

But on side note, I find feel lead in this series is trying too hard to act cute and innocent, where as Nae-il's character cuteness and innocence sort of feels organic, like it feel natural, in the Chinese version the voice kind of ruins it for the female lead when ever she tries to act cute, maybe it's just me because it is first time that I am watching a Chinese drama, maybe it's the language issue for me

 

Maybe it is the language - because many Chinese dramas and films are dubbed. While voice actors are probably just as good at what they do as the screen actors (I seldom watch Chinese dramas, but that'd be my guess), it does mean there can be a disconnect between a character's facial expressions, gestures, etc. and their tone of voice.

 

Something similar happened, I found, in the Cantonese dubbed version of Nae Il's Cantabile - this is one of the few K-dramas where I watched it twice (once on my own in Korean, then a second time with family in Cantonese), and I was surprised at how...less lovable Nae Il was in the dub. Personally, Shim Eun Kyung's own voice was far more suited to Nae Il's sweeter, gentler side later in the drama, and some of the nuances seem to have been lost in the translation and subsequent dubbing. Maybe whoever did the translations kept more of Nae Il's over-the-top possessive side from the beginning of the drama, but the end result was that she came across more childish than childlike in that dubbed version.

 

By the way, with recent dramas now like Hi, Bye, Mama and Flower of Evil showing JW's female co-stars as moms (Kim Tae Hee and Moon Chae Won, respectively), now I want to see JW being cast as a father in a future drama. Who's with me?

[kireeti2]

17 hours ago, kittyna said:

I remember him talking about this on Happy Together with the Fashion King cast: he said that he thought the short skirts that were so popular in Korea were impractical (which might not be true, but it's an understandable assumption) and that he "didn't know where to look" when his female classmates wore them. I think he's cool with longer skirts, though? Maybe?

 

Again, that's something that could potentially be patriarchal or sexist (like he's pinning responsibility for his own inappropriate(?) thoughts on the girls), but given the rest of his behaviour, I doubt that's the case. Or, at least I hope not.

Again it was similar thing which he said in "Witch Hunt" episode, like when he was practicing for musical his female partner worn so called revealing outfit(I don't know what did he mean by that). so he asked to wear more modest clothing in practice session. I was sort of disappointed of his lack of gender sensitivity. Clothing something which is not only about fashion, but it is also a choice(freedom) to wear what one likes(especially women) and mobility. Since if we look at the past clothing of the women were often seen suitable to wear at home and not to work, as the time progressed women started wearing clothes which help them to be mobile while working and also gain their independence to pursue their careers. The first thought was that he should've known better, before saying something like this to a girl, I mean maybe she sweats a lot while practicing for the musical or it was the outfit which she is feels comfortable while practicing, not necessarily she worn that outfit to attract attentions or anything. I hope now he has a broad understanding and outlook, particularly towards women.

Spoiler

I can't say if our Joo won has a patriarchal mindset, since he dated "BOA", and I do believe that a strong and independent woman like her would never date guy who holds low opinion of women. So I guess all he needed was a time to change his outlook towards women I am hiding this because people might take a different interpretation

17 hours ago, kittyna said:

Maybe it is the language - because many Chinese dramas and films are dubbed. While voice actors are probably just as good at what they do as the screen actors (I seldom watch Chinese dramas, but that'd be my guess), it does mean there can be a disconnect between a character's facial expressions, gestures, etc. and their tone of voice.

Oh, so it is the language issue, sometimes the female lead expression and voice is sort of incompatible to watch

17 hours ago, kittyna said:

Personally, Shim Eun Kyung's own voice was far more suited to Nae Il's sweeter, gentler side later in the drama

I do agree with this one, I think no one can replace or do a better job in being Nae-il than her

 

17 hours ago, kittyna said:

By the way, with recent dramas now like Hi, Bye, Mama and Flower of Evil showing JW's female co-stars as moms (Kim Tae Hee and Moon Chae Won, respectively), now I want to see JW being cast as a father in a future drama. Who's with me?

I don't know, Joo won has a still long way to go as an actor, I am not saying he will do a bad job at being father, but the last drama I have watched clearly did not show that he can play a father's role, since it requires lot of maturity as an actor and also in personality. So maybe in his mid or  late 30s? But I would make the call after watching "Alice" and "Fire Fighter". And kim Tae Hee and Moon Chae Won are way ahead of joo won in terms of acting so they can literally portray any character.

17 hours ago, kittyna said:

For me, my question isn't about China: this is about how well physical distancing measures worked in Europe, Australia, Korea, etc. 

 

I'm just saying that when word first got out that Italy was planning a lockdown, there were some voices here in North America that said, "But how would that even work - isn't that a violation of their personal rights?" So there was some skepticism that it would be effective, or expectation that there would be a popular protest against the idea. However, that's not what actually happened, and I personally like to think that liberal democracies where restrictions and physical distancing measures were successful (e.g. Italy, Germany, Canada, etc.) succeeded because the citizens were looking out for each other and willing to make sacrifices for the public good.

Yeah, this pandemic has clearly shown the inequality as a reality which was only discussed in research papers and in academics. I think the protest against Lock down was done by anti-vaxxers or the ones  who believe earth is flat. The ones with the rational outlook have done their part and as you can see the North States of USA have flattened the curve, but the Southern States of USA are still struggling. Your argument does holds water when we talk about people claiming excessive individual rights even during extraordinary times

[kireeti2]

Oh Yeo Seo  a.k.a My Sassy Girl sends love and support to Joo won(at least that's what the translation says), even after passing of 3 years they are still goods friends. To hold on to your co-star is really difficult in drama industry since they are too busy with their work celebrities usually lose contact with their co-star and eventually they become just acquaintance, it is heartwarming to know that they are till good friends, I guess the shooting of Alice is still not done.

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCaY4HtpH4o/

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Again it was similar thing which he said in "Witch Hunt" episode, like when he was practicing for musical his female partner worn so called revealing outfit(I don't know what did he mean by that). so he asked to wear more modest clothing in practice session.

 

Just throwing this out there: where did you find episodes of Witch Hunt to watch? I do like watching JW's talk show appearances (I feel like you get more out of them than the short 5-10 minute interviews), but I haven't been able to find either of his Witch Hunt episodes. If you still have your source, please let me know 

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I was sort of disappointed of his lack of gender sensitivity. Clothing something which is not only about fashion, but it is also a choice(freedom) to wear what one likes(especially women) and mobility. Since if we look at the past clothing of the women were often seen suitable to wear at home and not to work, as the time progressed women started wearing clothes which help them to be mobile while working and also gain their independence to pursue their careers. The first thought was that he should've known better, before saying something like this to a girl, I mean maybe she sweats a lot while practicing for the musical or it was the outfit which she is feels comfortable while practicing, not necessarily she worn that outfit to attract attentions or anything. I hope now he has a broad understanding and outlook, particularly towards women.

 

I think that, for better or worse, JW does hold on to the traditional "bear girl/fox girl" dichotomy. The video explains the vlogger's opinion of it, but I can also add some things from what I've observed in dramas.

 

Fox girl - She's the type of girl that everyone thinks guys like: physically attractive, fashionable, has a certain cool/sophisticated air to her, boldly confident, etc. However, people also associate foxes with seduction and manipulation - to go back to the video I shared in the link, if a fox girl uses aegyo, she's doing it on purpose to get the guy's affection. In Chinese culture, at least, fox girls are also seen as homewreckers (the mistress, the girl in the bar you have a one-night stand with, etc.), but I don't know how much that holds true in Korean culture.

 

Bear girl - She's a bit more homey and down-to-earth, with a naturally nurturing side and innocence. It's linked to traditional Korean femininity, based on an old legend about a bear who was transformed into a woman after passing a test of endurance and who ends up marrying and producing a son (the ancestor of the Korean people). So, generally speaking, bear girls are seen as submissive, gentle, authentic/genuine in their aegyo (i.e. they either don't do it at all or it just comes out unconsciously), etc. However, that's not to say that a bear can't be tough or strong as well: I think in modern-day interpretations, at least, a woman who's diligent in her career or studies and prioritizes hard work over financial or romantic success would still be a bear.

 

The dichotomy is actually pretty common in K-dramas, and even now, it's not unusual for the first and second female leads (if they're both interested in the male lead) to match up with this divide. That link uses Good Doctor as an example, but I don't really think it's the best one, since we don't get that competition over the guy (which is where the tropes matter). Instead, out of JW's dramas, I think the best examples of the "bear girl/fox girl" stereotype are Gaksital (Oh Mok Dan vs. Ueno Rie) and Nae Il's Cantabile (Seol Nae Il vs. Chae Do Kyung - who's literally called a "fox" outright by the other girls). Yong Pal and My Sassy Girl also feature both female leads competing over the male lead, but the girls themselves don't really fall into those tropes (the second female leads in both cases are still foxy, but I don't think you can call either Han Yeo Jin or Princess Hye Myung "bear" types).

 

So, if you put JW's comments about dressing modestly into that original context, I think that it's not so much about how the girl is dressed but what he thinks that style of dress implies (like the time he said he preferred UEE's cute side to her sexy side on the Ojakgyo Brothers episode of Happy Together). Which I know, in this day and age, isn't doing him any favours in the feminism department, but that's something he's got to figure out on his own. And what I expect and hope for is that he acknowledges his own role in that interpretation: i.e., if he finds himself thinking dirty thoughts after seeing a girl dressed in a certain way, the onus is on him to know better.

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And kim Tae Hee and Moon Chae Won are way ahead of joo won in terms of acting so they can literally portray any character.

 

Well, they're both his sunbaes (Kim Tae Hee by a long shot), so point taken  

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Oh Yeo Seo  a.k.a My Sassy Girl sends love and support to Joo won(at least that's what the translation says), even after passing of 3 years they are still goods friends. To hold on to your co-star is really difficult in drama industry since they are too busy with their work celebrities usually lose contact with their co-star and eventually they become just acquaintance, it is heartwarming to know that they are till good friends, I guess the shooting of Alice is still not done.

 

 

Hm...so maybe those wrap-up photos were for that specific filming crew? Or maybe the producers need to re-shoot certain scenes after the fact? Oh, well - whatever needs to be done to make Alice the best it can be, I'm all for it.

[kireeti2]

14 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Just throwing this out there: where did you find episodes of Witch Hunt to watch? I do like watching JW's talk show appearances (I feel like you get more out of them than the short 5-10 minute interviews), but I haven't been able to find either of his Witch Hunt episodes. If you still have your source, please let me know 

LOL! That emoji is kind of corny. And also, coming to source of "Witch hunt", it was available on Netflix in my region until last month. But for some unknown reason I am not able to watch it on Netflix, it might be available in your region, so if you want to watch Joo won's episode it'll the first episode on Netflix "witch Hunt" program, although it was officially 13th episode, for some reason the episode numbers are messed up on Netflix, most of my sources are off-grid(if you know what I mean, cyber laws in my country are just laws), and I don't know what kind of cyber laws are there in North American region, so I am not disclosing my off-grid sources.

23 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I think that it's not so much about how the girl is dressed but what he thinks that style of dress implies (like the time he said he preferred UEE's cute side to her sexy side on the Ojakgyo Brothers episode of Happy Together)

Lol! That scene was so funny, Joo won was like "I'll not look at the dance", like a teenage kid or child avoiding eye contact with his/her parents while there was a romantic scene playing on TV show or in movie

 

25 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Which I know, in this day and age, isn't doing him any favours in the feminism department, but that's something he's got to figure out on his own. And what I expect and hope for is that he acknowledges his own role in that interpretation: i.e., if he finds himself thinking dirty thoughts after seeing a girl dressed in a certain way, the onus is on him to know better.

That's why I still cannot see him play in Father role. I always feel like father is someone who is non-judgemental at least in front of his kids. Therefore I feel like he needs to be more sensitive towards women, not like being considerate, he is really being considerate and keeping safe distance from a female colleague, like not making her uncomfortable or acting up. In a scene of 1N2D where he has to do skipping rope challenge with "Soo Ae" where he was clearly trying to not make her uncomfortable, so I think our joo wonie is not without flaws when it comes to being sensitive towards women. Perhaps not having sister might have role to play in his opinion, since he already respects and loves his mother, but that respect sort of confides towards the mother and elderly women. If he had a little sister or I prefer he had elder sister since he would just be a protective brother if he had a little sister, and will not learn anything about feminism or be sensitive towards women. A elder sister would be much more effective in being sensitive towards women

 

36 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I think that, for better or worse, JW does hold on to the traditional "bear girl/fox girl" dichotomy. The video explains the vlogger's opinion of it, but I can also add some things from what I've observed in dramas.

Lol! This dichotomy is almost similar to American High School drama. Like there is cool and attractive girl which every boy in the school wants to date and there is this nerdy girl with glasses who only tries to study and get good grades, and join math and science club to get into university of her choice. Oddly here though, the nerdy one ends up with famous boy in the high school. I guess humans are not that different after all

I think in a successful relationship between hetero/homo/trans it all boils down to fulfilling emotional need. Yes physical need will play it's role, like getting attentions of a person, but to make that attention into relationship will take more than being physically attractive/smart/rich(debatable)/acting cute. I think Joo won is also looking for something similar, a compatible partner, not submissive or sexy, a partner who'll fulfill his emotional need, like not making him feel alone. In an interview he did mentions that he really doesn't care about looks or being smart as long as she is compatible, something like that. He did mentioned about having a belly fat as a criteria, I don't know if it is fetish or not, but it ended up creating a sort of funny comments online.

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And also, coming to source of "Witch hunt", it was available on Netflix in my region until last month. But for some unknown reason I am not able to watch it on Netflix, it might be available in your region, so if you want to watch Joo won's episode it'll the first episode on Netflix "witch Hunt" program, although it was officially 13th episode, for some reason the episode numbers are messed up on Netflix

 

I see. And...I don't have Netflix (because I'm cheap like that ). Oh, well - it was worth the shot. In the meantime, there's this one episode recap to tide me over  

 

The big takeaway from that recap is that JW in 2014 was 1) really, really earnest when it comes to relationships, and 2) rather hopelessly naive for someone who was 27(!) years old at the time. Like, he seems to be the sort of person whose entire perspective on love/dating/marriage/etc. revolves around long-term relationships, and who is pretty clueless when it comes to flirting.

 

For example (and I quote):

 

Quote

javabeans: Joo-won’s reaction to the third question is so adorable, because it’s a guy asking about this really forward girl, and Joo-won’s jaw just drops like it’s omgsoshocking for someone to be that aggressive. It’s like a kid saying That’s like in the movies! Except… dude, Joo-won, you’re the one IN all the movies!

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That's why I still cannot see him play in Father role. I always feel like father is someone who is non-judgemental at least in front of his kids. Therefore I feel like he needs to be more sensitive towards women, not like being considerate, he is really being considerate and keeping safe distance from a female colleague, like not making her uncomfortable or acting up. In a scene of 1N2D where he has to do skipping rope challenge with "Soo Ae" where he was clearly trying to not make her uncomfortable, so I think our joo wonie is not without flaws when it comes to being sensitive towards women. Perhaps not having sister might have role to play in his opinion, since he already respects and loves his mother, but that respect sort of confides towards the mother and elderly women. If he had a little sister or I prefer he had elder sister since he would just be a protective brother if he had a little sister, and will not learn anything about feminism or be sensitive towards women. A elder sister would be much more effective in being sensitive towards women

 

That depends on how he was brought up - even younger brothers could be expected to be their older sisters' guardians if the family's a bit more on the conservative/traditional side. However, in today's MeToo era, I think that as long as JW doesn't do anything creepy, I'm satisfied - which might be setting the bar rather low in regards to feminism, but I personally am more comfortable being around a more reserved or protective guy anyway. Better that than a flirt, as far as I'm concerned.

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think Joo won is also looking for something similar, a compatible partner, not submissive or sexy, a partner who'll fulfill his emotional need, like not making him feel alone. In an interview he did mentions that he really doesn't care about looks or being smart as long as she is compatible, something like tha

 

Same. I get the sense that the emotional connection's what's more important to him - and for me, personally, that's also a sign of maturity on his part. I like that he's focused more on the long-term stability of a relationship than short-term passion or attraction.

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

He did mentioned about having a belly fat as a criteria, I don't know if it is fetish or not, but it ended up creating a sort of funny comments online.

 

lol - That came back around to bite him so hard when he started dating BoA, because she's definitely got a flat, toned stomach.  So if you look at interviews from 2016 (when he was dating but hadn't gone public with it yet), you can see how he tries to clarify his comments from earlier: that what he meant was just that he didn't think girls needed to be super-skinny in order to be attractive. He also clarified at several different points that he was referring to a "small" belly - i.e. the kind that comes just from being of a healthy weight.

[kireeti2]

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

I see. And...I don't have Netflix (because I'm cheap like that )

Lol! It's not like that I belong to top 1%, I use my brothers account, who in turn uses his friends account.

 

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

The big takeaway from that recap is that JW in 2014 was 1) really, really earnest when it comes to relationships, and 2) rather hopelessly naive for someone who was 27(!) years old at the time. Like, he seems to be the sort of person whose entire perspective on love/dating/marriage/etc. revolves around long-term relationships, and who is pretty clueless when it comes to flirting.

That was pretty clear with his interaction with women in 1N2D, he is either helping them with activity or keep a safe distance from them. Like a boy who  just came  from All Boys school To be frank 2013 or 2014 is pretty old when we compare with 2020 parameters about a guys understanding of women. In 2013 I was 20 years old and I wasn't that sensitive towards women or girls my age, it took me some time and after reading lot of literature I was able to broaden my thinking, So I guess joo won would have also gone through an enlightening phase and broaden his thinking towards women.

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

Same. I get the sense that the emotional connection's what's more important to him - and for me, personally, that's also a sign of maturity on his part. I like that he's focused more on the long-term stability of a relationship than short-term passion or attraction.

In every interview he gave, he always been consistent in mentioning that he is more in favor of marriage, because it is more realistic than dating

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

lol - That came back around to bite him so hard when he started dating BoA, because she's definitely got a flat, toned stomach.  So if you look at interviews from 2016 (when he was dating but hadn't gone public with it yet), you can see how he tries to clarify his comments from earlier: that what he meant was just that he didn't think girls needed to be super-skinny in order to be attractive. He also clarified at several different points that he was referring to a "small" belly - i.e. the kind that comes just from being of a healthy weight.

LOL! He was sort of clueless about defining his ideal type, most importantly he didn't had a ready made answer, so I guess he tried to be genuine in his answer. I think Joo-won dating BOA was  a sign that he sort of changed his perception towards women, since BOA is woman with strong personality and on top of that she wears whats comfortable to her not to accammodate  others ,and on the other hand Joo won sort of feels like a timid person and has a conservative outlook towards women. But both have similarities like they both are private persons and like golfing. But they failed to reach happy ending

Spoiler

girlfriday: Sometimes he’s such a tiny baby: Maybe this explains why joo won held(at least I would like to think he has changed by working with some excellent actresses like KIM HEE SEON AND KIM TAE HEE, that a woman can be both bear and fox, at the same she can change according to the situation and as she likes) those views because he might be immature when he was at that age, I mean we don't know much about his views after he turned 30 or after  enlistment or during dating or after break-up. His views might have changed if not at least he not immature like he was in his 20s and he'll definitely not say to a woman to dress modestly. I still feel like he said those things not because  it made him uncomfortable but he might be concerned about few men who'll sort of give dirty look towards a women no matter what she wears and they'll leave no chance to harass  a woman if a she  is wearing modern outfit. And in 2013 or  should I say before "Me too" movement although it as nothing to do with, I find the "Me too" is a paradigmatic shift and we can use it as paradigm, like "BC"  there was also argument made against women who were r***ed "that she was wearing revealing outfit, so she got what was coming" But today this argument holds no water and top of that they can be tried for slandering

 

[kittyna]

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol! It's not like that I belong to top 1%, I use my brothers account, who in turn uses his friends account.

 

Not "1%" per se - I probably can afford Netflix if I tried; I just don't want to spend my money that way. When push came to shove, my family opted to splurge on Spotify instead

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That was pretty clear with his interaction with women in 1N2D, he is either helping them with activity or keep a safe distance from them. Like a boy who  just came  from All Boys school To be frank 2013 or 2014 is pretty old when we compare with 2020 parameters about a guys understanding of women.

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And in 2013 or  should I say before "Me too" movement although it as nothing to do with, I find the "Me too" is a paradigmatic shift and we can use it as paradigm, like "BC"  there was also argument made against women who were r***ed "that she was wearing revealing outfit, so she got what was coming" But today this argument holds no water and top of that they can be tried for slandering

 

Yeah, I tend to forget how much of a paradigm shift MeToo was, simply because from our perspective, we're in 2020 looking back at 2017. But you're right that the last word we ever had from JW on the subject was before that point, so....

 

I do think that even back then, JW was a bit ahead of a number of guys his age. For instance, I don't think he's the sort who'd ever think a girl who was assaulted "had it coming" because of how she was dressed, or whether she was drinking, or something like that. However, I think back to, say, his comment on Healing Camp (so, 2015) about how a guy and a girl going out drinking at night would look like they're in a relationship, and I think that JW's comments are aimed less at attributing blame as they are about trying to prevent sketchy scenarios from happening in the first place.

 

We don't know what he's seen and heard from male peers and sunbaes in the entertainment industry over the years - and considering things like Burning Sun, maybe we don't want to know. But I wouldn't be surprised if some of the dirty jokes, the inappropriate comments and touches that show up a lot during parties, etc. made him really uncomfortable. And if he, say, notices that most of those comments are aimed at girls who look or dress a certain way...while the wrong is still on the part of the guys saying those things, I can see how he might swing the other way out of a desire to protect the girls.

 

It's sort of ironic, actually: you're a guy @kireeti2 who thinks that JW is still too conservative in his thoughts about how women dress/behave/etc., and I'm somehow a girl who finds him safer or more comfortable to be around because he has those beliefs. Technically, if we went by stereotype or conventional wisdom, we should probably be the other way around  

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Maybe this explains why joo won held(at least I would like to think he has changed by working with some excellent actresses like KIM HEE SEON AND KIM TAE HEE, that a woman can be both bear and fox, at the same she can change according to the situation and as she likes) those views because he might be immature when he was at that age, I mean we don't know much about his views after he turned 30 or after  enlistment or during dating or after break-up. His views might have changed if not at least he not immature like he was in his 20s and he'll definitely not say to a woman to dress modestly.

 

I do think he was naive through most of his 20s - he had this really idealized view of dating and relationships that didn't even hold up to his own personal growth or maturity. Early on in his career, if Win Win tells us anything, he used to think that purity and integrity in his feelings meant liking or loving someone without thinking critically about them, and he had to wrestle with his own growing awareness that that simply wasn't true. There was a bit of a Peter Pan complex going on (i.e. holding on to an older belief because it's associated with childhood and innocence), but he did eventually work through it.

 

But that's the thing about people: they change and evolve over time.  

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

LOL! He was sort of clueless about defining his ideal type, most importantly he didn't had a ready made answer, so I guess he tried to be genuine in his answer. I think Joo-won dating BOA was  a sign that he sort of changed his perception towards women, since BOA is woman with strong personality and on top of that she wears whats comfortable to her not to accammodate  others ,and on the other hand Joo won sort of feels like a timid person and has a conservative outlook towards women. But both have similarities like they both are private persons and like golfing. But they failed to reach happy ending

 

I actually don't think JW ever had a thing against women with strong personalities or a preference for more timid girls - I think that's something he liked all along, or he wouldn't be as open to noona crushes and relationships as he was (only he'll ever know for sure, but a number of fans - myself included - think he did have genuine feelings for Choi Kang Hee back in 2013). And he seems to like befriending girls like that, too: I think of Moon Chae Won, Oh Yeon Seo, etc.

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Not "1%" per se - I probably can afford Netflix if I tried; I just don't want to spend my money that way. When push came to shove, my family opted to splurge on Spotify instead

Lol! I know, I was being sarcastic, I think Netflix provides cheapest subscription in India compared to other countries(due to sheer number of population) but still, I prefer to use other people's account, I guess that makes me cheap and smart at the same time

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

It's sort of ironic, actually: you're a guy @kireeti2 who thinks that JW is still too conservative in his thoughts about how women dress/behave/etc., and I'm somehow a girl who finds him safer or more comfortable to be around because he has those beliefs. Technically, if we went by stereotype or conventional wisdom, we should probably be the other way around  

Yeah, I did observed this paradox. I thought as woman you would find his views conservative , since the opinion he held was implicitly offensive in nature.But if I had seen those interviews at that time, I would have thought it was normal, but I saw it in 2019, so it kind of gave me an impression that he was conservative. I do feel like he might have changes his views, if we look at his latest interview for K-con he did showed lot of changes, in his 20s he was like into movies like "Notebook", but in the interview he suggested "CASINO" movie and his favorite girl group as "Blackpink" that's a major signs of change in views and opinion he held

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

I'm somehow a girl who finds him safer or more comfortable to be around because he has those beliefs

I think those sort of qualities depends upon a guys morality not views he holds, a guy can be liberal in his views and still be a predator. Since lot if them like to use their liberal views or act nice to smoke screen their malign intentions. If we look at statistics, 70% of crime against victims regardless of gender are committed by the person they know very well, like a friend or next door neighbor. Me Too movement is manifestation of that, sexual harassment at workplace is done by the someone that victim spends 8-9 hour of his/her time.

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

only he'll ever know for sure, but a number of fans - myself included - think he did have genuine feelings for Choi Kang Hee back in 2013).

Even with UEE, they were like very close, in one interview he said that they might have dated if they have pushed a bit more, but unfortunately they were not able to consolidate their feelings. In "Happy Together" episode also they said yes at the same time when were thrown a question that "If the person beside me asked me out, I'll say yes". I still think Joo won has time to find his better-half, he is just 32, and maybe he'll find someone in his late 30s or early 40s. Or maybe his mom will set him up with a date, since it is common for parents to set up dates for their children in Korea, at least that's the case if we follow K-drama. It's like they were doing that setting up date  before it was  made cool by "Tinder" or other dating sites.