[ Drama 2016] The K2 더 케이투

[meh2222]

6 minutes ago, liltash85 said:

Wow the preview looks intense. Btw im in Seoul now, will try my best to be at the coffee giving event tomorrow. Hope i can meet jcw n yoona. 

OMG!!!!! Wish you ALL THE LUCK!!!!! I'M SO EXCITED FOR YOU!!!

[YourHighness .]

54 minutes ago, kaoriharang said:

 

hmmmmm, could be a good guess.

it is vague huh the preview i cant figure it out.

Yeah just a guess but it can happen.

10 minutes ago, liltash85 said:

Wow the preview looks intense. Btw im in Seoul now, will try my best to be at the coffee giving event tomorrow. Hope i can meet jcw n yoona. 

Wah! Good luck!

[kaoriharang]

44 minutes ago, YourHighness . said:

Yeah just a guess but it can happen.

Wah! Good luck!

 

lets hope for the best really!

start praying ^^

i would like a otp dramatic reunion scene! then a kiss ~

[BlueFreak]

OH MY GOD.... ..tik tok tik tok tik tok... i watched the preview, Wow so intense..... tsk tsk tsk... fine, give me all that in episode 15, but a very goooood one for final...

By the way, keep calm agents.. we have left less than 24 hours before we can watch The K2, ''Bodyguard Action''

[YourHighness .]

31 minutes ago, kaoriharang said:

 

lets hope for the best really!

start praying ^^

i would like a otp dramatic reunion scene! then a kiss ~

I am expecting a tight hug if not a kiss He hugged her tightly when he dreamed of her almost dying then imagine her in actual danger. Please please don't disappoint us Writer.

[gimely]

22 minutes ago, YourHighness . said:

I am expecting a tight hug if not a kiss He hugged her tightly when he dreamed of her almost dying then imagine her in actual danger. Please please don't disappoint us Writer.

 

oh, yes! please, Writer! Anna too will see Jeha firstly after his hospital bed. How she worried and  run to Jeha's arms when he came back from a mission so how much happy she will be when Jeha come back from death?  I want to watch a very intensive  scene!!!! 

[nona88]

i come back but i still have work to do and i am going to sleep for few hours and wake up to do my work  i really want to enjoy ep 15-16 so i am doing my best to finsh the works 

okay before going look from the preview 

i think that YJ tell the word "traitor" to the JSS president not JH ( since he helping her brother ) 

and JH going to join hand  again with YJ at least for bringing ANNA back ( maybe right maybe wrong)

 i really like that there will be so many scenes between the OTP 

and finally i am going to sleep 

[cmoirae2]

7 hours ago, alekaonu said:

hi @Bambiina chingu, I  your comments on YoonA above. Thanks chingu because of your comment, my heart feels happier when I'm in here. If everyone gives her a chance like you, then this thread would be better, less hate.  

Chill chingu deul, this week is the finale week, let us all JH+AN and JH+YJ and YJ+Kim and K1+J4 shippers just enjoy this thread and the drama while it lasts. Peace and no War, ok chingu deul? Yaksukhae?

 

Dearie no one spreading hate in this thread  Not everyone may think on the same plane but opposing views don't equate to hate.  Hate is too strong a word. I totally agree let's make the most of whatever remains of the drama. With that said may I make a suggestion to everyone that if there are any hateful posts moving forward to escalate this to moderators So they can take the necessary action.  if I remember bashing of actors and actresses on soompi is not allowed.   Let's all spazz with wookie hotness with the last 2 episodes.   Peace no war 

 

No hate says wookie ... No no no

 

[an-naum]

Yeay~  it's Friday! i'll go to sleep, wake up, go to work while busiing myself, go back from work, and the episode is ready to be watched. from the preview, maybe JeHa able to escape but YJ remain behind inside Cloud 9. are you crazy SW? u want to bomb the place? Be strong Je Ha ( no rest for him). nite everyone

[siddo]

@bebebisious33: Yes, indeed it would be a good closure.

@shae: Lol, shae you and your hilarious take. Please stick to the end of drama so that you can come up with more comic takes in this show.

@lamylamy: I know you're very disappointed with writer's work on YJ but honestly you're hating way too much and using very harsh words for him and every character. It's not cool, bro. And I only agree with this -Choi Yoo Jin will be forever the synonym of lost justice.

@cmoirae2: Thank you for this -- Me => I share your sentiments.  I almost feel that the story was half baked.  What did Anna do in the 14 years she was in Barcelona?  If this has been articulated early on then it would've given a better foundation to the story.

Exactly what I was trying to say

@grape fruit: You're welcome.. It's okay if you can't reply everyone at the time, you can just continue with what discussion is going on when you come online. Thank you for loving my post. And about the next episodes, hmm I'm afraid we'll be only left with action scenes and no revelations. Because it's only 2 episodes left and I don't see the writer being interested in showing any good in YJ. Sad but true.

@miriamdream2: You're right.  It was JH calling YJ chingu in episode 6 inside cloud 9. He said, “People who don't betray do exist, isn't it, friend?” . Obviously that was in Korean.  Yes, YJ saving Anna could also be fine and possible. I know why you're saying that. Yoojin has wronged Anna many times and it'll only be fitting in the end if she dies saving Anna. With it, she could ask Anna for forgiveness too for what she did to her. Yes, even that's a good ending to YJ. I came up with JH because you know, it wasn't just for our ship but emotionally, mentally and a lil bit romantically she gets a closure. And this new set of green Smiley's are more awesome than those previous ones...hehe...

@reemkanabta: Lol, you find it cheesy? *sob* It was emotional for me. If she could had someone like JH by her side, her life would have been much better. Much loved, much wanted and much trusted. What else does a self sufficient woman needs other than a loving man by her side! And going to prison is also fine for me. She can be happy there too without worrying about those creeps out there who sucked her life out.

@jagmac44: Agree with you on your post. And I'm excited too for the last episodes.

@yourhighness: I will disagree with you on this. International audience does count and that’s the reason why forums like Soompi, Dramafever, Drama beans, Drama cool exists. Not just that. Drama viewing sites like Crunchyroll, Dramafever and Viki exists. Majority of the audience there, are international and that's the reason these sites come up with subtitles in different languages.  And they also contribute a small portion of money by registering into this sites, installing the Viki app(ads & all), surfing their websites for a specific time (clicking on ads and all). Even if the contribution is little. It's there. And I find it funny that just because we don't contribute that much to the show’s earnings we don't possess the right to question the writer? This isn't right, no? The show anyway earns so much through its endorsements, brand partners and of course cable TV payers. But with money, popularity of the show is also that much important. And Korean as well much of the international audiences are the reason behind it. This is no wonder that South East Asian shows are so popular all over world because of their content, script, writing and hence the international audience demand it. So we cannot downplay ourselves here.

As perfect smile bias said, “in media analysis there is this thing called "death of the author" it basically means that Once a creator puts his work out there, his original intention is lost, everyone understands the work differently and have their own interpretations” , To which I agree. People take notice of the work and hence they discuss/debate on the work. Different people will have different perceptions, interpretations. Likewise they'll also have criticism and questions too. And as someone who watches their work so closely, so ardently, & with interest,  I possess the right to ask questions to them. But you're right here. Giving feedback to my questions is their right. Whether they'll answer or refuse to answer me is their call. But asking is what I can do and I'll keep doing.

But if you still feel I don't have any right to ask, then let's agree to disagree. 

[siddo]

@auroredawn:  Intention, yes that's exactly I want to know about YJ. What was YJ’s intention behind hiding Anna these 14 years. 

Was she hiding just because of JSJ’s Presidential ambition?

Was she hiding her to keep her away from her own evil step family? 

Was she hiding her to control JSJ?

The first 2 gives her a benefit of doubt. To me it's  questioning her intentions.  It somehow paints her less bad. Though YJ herself said in episode 2 to KDM  that she uses Anna as a tool for JSJ, somehow her actions can't make me believe that. Her actions somehow brings up her intentions. I remember her action when she hurt her hand when her step brother took Anna away and nobody knew where she was for a while. That me questioned why would she hurt her hand, gets so stressed about a girl she doesn't care much. Likewise the writer has given much scenes and actions of Yoojin which makes me want to know her intentions.  

Regarding Anna’s deprivation of freedom. I too feel bad that she was deprived of her social freedom and I'm very angry on YJ for that. But here I want to know whether she was given freedom to do any other things like any other normal person. That'll make me know her intentions again.

And the 3rd option, well I still don't know how she's controlling JSJ. She's making him the President, but this is what he always wanted/ wished to be. If JSJ believed that YJ could hurt Anna, she could have made him do anything. From sleeping with her, to forcing love to her,  to ask for his loyalty, to forever become her slave. Isn't this what everyone talks here? That she likes to keep people slave to her, so she had a jackpot with Anna to keep JSJ to herself. But I can’t see any of this happening. 

I think we can talk and talk about this but will never to reach to a same point. Opinions and interpretations will always be different here in this case. So let's just see if the writer sheds any light on this part.

------

Let me make this clear, I don't want proof of Anna facing abuse, I want proof of Yoojin perpetrating abuse or not? Because abuse is no small thing. As a YJ fan, this is something I should know, I feel. And I'm not attacking Anna with my questions asking writer for the answers. I'm not justifying any of YJ’s evil actions but I'm eager to know what were and are her intentions. I do not feel what YJ did is right, I only want to know why she did it? 

Please please stop accusing us YJ fans of justifying her bad actions and let us be. What I write is my personal interpretation and I don't think anybody's understanding me in my interpretations (by understanding I don’t mean agreeing). What I'm doing is finding some “hope of goodness” in my favourite character of show. That's Yoojin.  I don't think it's bad to hope that we YJ fans still want to see some goodness in YJ. And all my posts are regarding that itself. I don't intend to demean or have demeaned Anna or any other character of the show except JSJ (for obvious reasons) ;  just want to see some nice traits in the character I have invested my time in. I'm someone of the belief  ‘Hope till your hope dies’ So I will continue this hope till the show ends and I'm not forcing anyone to agree with the ‘hope’ I make in my  posts nor do I intend to shove my opinion down other's throat.  It just makes me upset when my ‘hope’ is confused as my excuse to justify her evil actions, as my support towards her bad deeds or my hatred towards other characters of the show. Trust me, it's not.

In case if anyone intends to quote this post, please, please don't. I can't explain any more than this. Gtg ttfn..

[YourHighness .]

1 hour ago, nona88 said:

i come back but i still have work to do and i am going to sleep for few hours and wake up to do my work  i really want to enjoy ep 15-16 so i am doing my best to finsh the works 

okay before going look from the preview 

i think that YJ tell the word "traitor" to the JSS president not JH ( since he helping her brother ) 

and JH going to join hand  again with YJ at least for bringing ANNA back ( maybe right maybe wrong)

 i really like that there will be so many scenes between the OTP 

and finally i am going to sleep 

When she said "traitor" it seemed like JH was in front of her so pretty sure she is calling him a traitor.

2 hours ago, gimely said:

 

oh, yes! please, Writer! Anna too will see Jeha firstly after his hospital bed. How she worried and  run to Jeha's arms when he came back from a mission so how much happy she will be when Jeha come back from death?  I want to watch a very intensive  scene!!!! 

She better not run too hard into his arms. Our boy is injured. He wouldn't care but still.

31 minutes ago, siddo said:

@yourhighness: I will disagree with you on this. International audience does count and that’s the reason why forums like Soompi, Dramafever, Drama beans, Drama cool exists. Not just that. Drama viewing sites like Crunchyroll, Dramafever and Viki exists. Majority of the audience there, are international and that's the reason these sites come up with subtitles in different languages.  And they also contribute a small portion of money by registering into this sites, installing the Viki app(ads & all), surfing their websites for a specific time (clicking on ads and all). Even if the contribution is little. It's there. And I find it funny that just because we don't contribute that much to the show’s earnings we don't possess the right to question the writer? This isn't right, no? The show anyway earns so much through its endorsements, brand partners and of course cable TV payers. But with money, popularity of the show is also that much important. And Korean as well much of the international audiences are the reason behind it. This is no wonder that South East Asian shows are so popular all over world because of their content, script, writing and hence the international audience demand it. So we cannot downplay ourselves here.

As perfect smile bias said, “in media analysis there is this thing called "death of the author" it basically means that Once a creator puts his work out there, his original intention is lost, everyone understands the work differently and have their own interpretations” , To which I agree. People take notice of the work and hence they discuss/debate on the work. Different people will have different perceptions, interpretations. Likewise they'll also have criticism and questions too. And as someone who watches their work so closely, so ardently, & with interest,  I possess the right to ask questions to them. But you're right here. Giving feedback to my questions is their right. Whether they'll answer or refuse to answer me is their call. But asking is what I can do and I'll keep doing.

But if you still feel I don't have any right to ask, then let's agree to disagree. 

Isn't that what I said? LOL. That international fans only count if they are paying and contributing to the show in some way. Are you?

Nope brand partners and endorsements do not depend on us. We watch online, we don't watch the advertisements and have no way to purchase them from Korean stores, even if we do.

I think your are giving international fans too much credit. We are really not as important as you think. For example MLSHR is a huge hit internationally but in Korea its a flop and that's how it's seen. A flop show; no partners will come forth to make a sequel of that show.

LOL, ask any media person and they will tell you that only a paying customer has the right to question the writer about his work. Walk upto any writer and question them about so and so character and then tell them that you read their work illegally. Guess what their answer would be.

I think I've cleared up on point pretty well if you still think we international fans are that important than it's upto you.

[SunnySun26]

[perfectsmilebias]

1 hour ago, YourHighness . said:

LOL, ask any media person and they will tell you that only a paying customer has the right to question the writer about his work. Walk upto any writer and question them about so and so character and then tell them that you read their work illegally. Guess what their answer would be.

I'm sorry dear, but you are wrong. It is a given reality accepted by media companies that piracy is a prevalent thing. They are doing things to lessen it and prevent it, but they are also doing things to adapt to the current media consumer market environment. For instance, movie companies are rarely ever able to make enough profit from playing the movie in theaters alone, the reality is that people aren't going to movie theaters as much anymore in major Western markets (which is why they have really pushed towards China, even though piracy in China is a very big problem). Movie companies have to rely on other sources of revenue to get major profits, e.g. home entertainment, streaming sites, and merchandise.

For example, Game of Thrones is one of the most illegally streamed TV shows, actually the majority of people around the world view it illegally since they don't have HBO. And yet it is still a mega international success. That is because it gets money through other ways rather than being solely dependent on real-time ratings. GOT has a very large and active fandom. More and more companies are seeing the financial benefit of tapping into the power of fandom communities, many found online in social media and forums. These communities provide what is called "free immaterial labor" which a lot of media companies and other companies use when they interact with people on social media. In a sense fandoms provide free marketing material which has great outreach. Free immaterial labor which includes analysis and criticisms, is also another way companies gather data on consumers that they use later on to design targeted marketing strategies and make products and works that will cater to that audience. 

And even then, it isn't like most people on this forum are directly contacting the writer demanding him to change. We are merely commenting on a forum. Everyone has the right to analyze and criticize the media they consume. 

Spoiler

 

EDIT: I also wanted to add, that if a show that fails to get high rating in Korea it is only considered a flop by those that would have directly benefited from its Korean success, in other words the writer, director, actors, and brands that wish to target a Korean market. 

First, a little background on what I know (it isn't too much) of the Korean broadcast market.

The broadcast companies that aren't cable channels, e.g. KBS, MBC, SBS, commercials/advertisers are not what funds them, their main funding comes from the government. (Sponsorships help partly fund their productions) That is why they can afford to play dramas without commercial interruption.

Cable channels like tvN and OCN do not have the luxgury of state funding so that is why they have commercial breaks. But still, their dramas heavily utilize Product Placement (Subway, Innisfree, etc.) which is a form of advertising. There has been a surge in Product Placement within TV shows  and that is precisely because most people no longer watch their TV live. They either watch it on a Video on demand streaming service, they record it on their DVRs so they can skip the commercials, or they stream or download it illegally. With product placement, people are still exposed to the brand because they can't skip the show like they would do with a traditional commercial. So, live TV-watching and therefore live TV ratings are becoming less and less important for advertisers, who are what fund private broadcast companies that the government does not fund.

Now back to what is and is not considered a flop. 

Korean broadcast companies, whether public or private, all want their shows to get high ratings. This is because more companies, brands, and advertisers will approach them and offer funding during the show's run. But just because, for instance one KBS show becomes a hit, doesn't mean all the sponsors that helped fund that drama are going to automatically fund the next show KBS produces. So, a high-rated drama does not equal a steady stream of money for the broadcast or production companies, the ones in charge of drama-making. So, a high-rated show can bring in a instance of high revenue and even stregthen the broadcast company's brand name for a time, but they are not the ones to benefit the most from highly-rated drama.

Those that benefit the most are those involved specifically within the drama itself. Directors and writers of a sucessful drama will more likely get job offers in the future. Actors get to heighten their recognition among the Korean public which makes them attractive to brands trying to sell to Korean consumers. And brands will benefit by using those actors in their advertsing and those actors and their agencies will benefit from those brand ambassdor jobs.

But, Korean broadcast companies, get a lot of their money by syndicating their dramas to international broadcast companies and streaming services. Of course, getting high ratings in Korea will encourage foreign companies to buy the broadcasting rights to dramas. But that is not always the case; there have been plenty of dramas that were still bought and even became popular internationally even though they weren't in Korea, for example Healer. Korean broadcast companies also, for mostly popular Hallyu dramas, get money through merchandise. 

Hallyu actors and their agencies can get a lot of money internationally even if they aren't as popular or widely recognized in Korea, one could argue Ji Chang Wook falls into this category.

And brands that wish to use Korean actors to market their products can still get a lot of money if the drama is sucessul in international markets rather than in Korea, especially brands that have a presence in international markets. For example, Subway is an international brand, even if The K2 was not a hit in Korea, but it was in say China or Japan, Subway would still benefit and gets lots of money because it would just target the lucrative consumer markets of those countries.

So in the end, the production companies, advertisers, and sometimes the actors and their agencies still benefit greatly if their drama is not a success in Korea, but is a success elsewhere.

 

So yes, foreign audiences are very important and impactful to media creators in Korea. And considering The K2 was tvN's attempt at targeting the Chinese market, what with Ji Chang Wook's expensive casting and Yoona's casting, tvN is most likely very invested in what foreign audiences have to say.

[ashvaugn]

 

[klgirl]

Hi everyone! I'm here to post the last meme for K2 since it is finale week here.  I thought I'd honor my other most beloved character - Master Song - besides I never noticed exactly where he was looking before I took the screenshot....haha. Master Song -- byuntae.

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[vangsweetie637]

Finally! A preview. But it sure keeps us in the loop doesn't it? I was one of the guilty ones, who wanted Anna to be kidnapped *smirk* but i have totally forgotten that JH is injured  so now i am scared he will lose most of his energy. He seems to have gotten hurt again at the end. Omo, please don't let anything happen to our K2. 

One more day. Just one more day then we will be watching the finale.

[YourHighness .]

@perfectsmilebias I'll reply to you tomorrow. Just so you know, I work in this industry and hence I know how directors, writers and production companies work. You seem to have some misconception about this industry and the power of fandom that I will clear tomorrow.

[perfectsmilebias]

11 hours ago, Bambiina said:

All this talk about YJ this and YJ that .. YJ dying for JH .. YJ dying for Anna … Does anyone ever think it could be Anna dying for YJ? .. Wahahhahaha .. what a twist huh .. show that beach .. no matter how much you hurt Anna .. she is willing to die for you … wahahahah..

 

Writernim .. why not writer nim .. Let Anna be the human shield and saved YJ from the bullet .. let her take the bullet .. OMG .. I think I will run naked in the thread .. I’ll go yippe yippe .. what a slap to YJ face … May be .. she’ll realize that there good people in this world … that would die even though you were such a beach ..

 

Let see Anna dying on JH lap …

 

Sometime I wonder what Jejin shipper expect JH to do? … Don’t betray YJ .. work with her .. and watch happily Anna being send to Spain leave Anna?

 

Sorry – I can’t help but to judge Jejin shipper .. I keep thinking really?? They really support such act .. They say they don’t but why do they want to see JH betraying Anna .. even after YJ clearly threatened she want to kill everyone that is close to Anna .. and mock Anna and try to separate Anna from everyone that Anna loves and still they support her? … Why?? … because Anna character not interesting?? ..  because YJ character is interesting?

 

.. This mind boggling issue make me enjoy K2 less .. wakakkaka. YESSSSSSSSSS .. because of this I find K2 less entertaining .. wakakaka .. yea I am crazy .. I was like huh? Why? .. Anna is the victim .. why they didn’t feel anything when YJ want to kill people close to her ..  Why? Why they allow YJ to separate Anna and JH … why are they so ‘cruel’ toward Anna? .. is she not a woman? .. is she not a victim? .. She lost her father and her mother … she was deprived human interaction .. she was imprison .. I believe she has no real friend … why ..

 

Why?? .. Why people are so cruel toward Anna .. whyyy.. whey .. because she is not an interesting character ..?? see I am going round and round ..

 

Wakakaka …. I was hoping we can all agree and discuss .. making joke .. instead .. aiyoh .. here I am since day one keep on going in circle (yeah yeah – no one fault … just my fault because I am trying to find the logic …  )

 

Thank God it’s finally over and I don’t have to frown every time I read comment ‘supporting’ YJ .. Oh mai .. what are they saying .. do they really think that way ..  …

 

@nona88 I was one of those fans that were quite disappointed with the casting (not just Yoona .. SYA too - she was not that popular - compare to other actress her age) ... anyway they proved me wrong .. THEY ARE GREAT .. both of them ... 

Hey! I've really tried avoiding talking about the drama itself... but I wanted to address this issue of how JeJin view the scene where Jeha ends his friendship (at least vocally) with YooJin.

Some people have said that it was not a betrayal but it was. Their alliance was based on a very simple agreement. YooJin promised to give Jeha resources so that he could avenge Raniya and in return Jeha would become part of Cloud 9, in other words he would be her bodygaurd and partner working together to destry PKS. Later on, Jeha made her promise not to attack or try to kill Anna anymore. Resources (which Jeha used extensively) and not attacking Anna, YooJin delivered on her promises.

She didn't promise that she would be kind to Anna, she didn't promise that she wouldn't drag Anna's mom's name in the mud. She didn't even promise not to kill anyone aside from Anna.

Jeha didn't promise to become YJ's lover, he didn't promise her not to get involved with Anna. 

But still, it was Jeha that broke the alliance, he was the one to betray YooJin.

Truly, I understand why he did it. It broke my heart to see their alliance be broken, but I understand and accept why he did it. That is not my problem with the scene.

A Tumblr post sums up my feelings of that scene very well. I'm not as critical of her on the drama overall, though it has disappointed me a little to much, but I do enjoy Jeha. But her thoughts on that scene in particular really match up with mine, I'll highlight the part.

Quote

 

So I was looking at gifsets from The K2 and I realised why I couldn’t get through it… 

Whilst they’re part of the reason why I dropped the drama, it wasn’t just because Yoo Jin was more interesting than the lead couple, or because JeHa/Anna felt too superficial and cheesy 

It was because I just don’t particularly like Je Ha that much as a character; I don’t know if he ‘grows’ much in later episodes, but I just feel like he has no depth. 

And seeing him being wishy washy with Yoo Jin, I don’t get a sense of someone who feels morally insecure, I just see someone who took what they needed and then used ‘you’re a bad person’ as an excuse wash their hands clean of them. 

Credit:  lavenderbyun

 

So for me, I understood why Jeha betrayed YooJin, but I really didn't like that he was self-righteous about it. That not only did he betray her but he rubbed it all in her face, even though he was totally fine with taking everything she gave him. His alias, his momentary freedom from Interpol, and Mirror, he took those things that she offered him and used them to his own benefit. 

But no, he's trying to justify his betrayal and he's trying to make it seem less like a betrayal. He's blaming his betrayal on YooJin, even though she did everything they agreed to. He's making his betrayal her fault, when in fact, it was his own choice.

I'm not against Jeha saying those things to YooJin either since there is truth to his words. Its just his timing, he's only telling her now when he is betraying her. When he has gotten all he has needed from her and doesn't need her anymore.

[perfectsmilebias]

13 minutes ago, YourHighness . said:

@perfectsmilebias I'll reply to you tomorrow. Just so you know, I work in this industry and hence I know how directors, writers and production companies work. You seem to have some misconception about this industry and the power of fandom that I will clear tomorrow.

But in the end, why can't people criticize the writer? It's not going to change anything. Everyone has the right to criticize the writer's effectiveness, his style, his messages, etc. etc.

Those aren't misconceptions, those are things I learned from case studies and academic literature I read for my New Media class in university. The media industry is not as straight-forward as it used to be.

Are you perhaps the writer of The K2??? lololol Is that why you don't want anyone to criticize the writing?? The writer seems to take a lot of ideas from this forum as some have pointed out... hahahah