[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[cojulie]

30 minutes ago, blue003 said:

Did WS actually understand HS? I mean what did he actually think by offering to make HS concubine n then make her a second queen when a kid comes in the picture? HS wanted to leave the palace but why was WS being obsessed with keeping her with him when she clearly said so? Imagine if she had a kid then... WS would have told her-ok you go but leave my child

 If she had wanted power, none of this would have happened. She could have married the king in the first place. I understand WS was desperate but the HS he loved didn't want any of this in the first place.why did he alienate her even more?

 

If she has a child, especially a boy that could potentially become the next king - she would hold more power in the palace and people would be less likely to challenge her or use her as bait.  I think he sees that as an opportunity for them to be together and be happy without all the obstacles in the way.  HS was the one who told him she wouldn't give up or leave him even if they didn't marry but as soon as CR happened, she changed her mind and told him she hated him.  I don't know about you guys but that's a pretty strong word to use to someone you love/loved especially one you know has a complex about being unloved for the better part of his life.

I won't deny that WS is a little blind and even naive in thinking becoming king can give them the happy ending they wanted but I don't think HS understands WS at all anymore.  She might have understood him initially which is why WS fell for her, but she is constantly challenging him by taking everyone else's sides but his.  Even the bad guys.  And I don't agree with that.  There is no black and white for HS - she's always in the gray area trying to be 'fair' but she doesn't think about how it affects WS, especially as king.  A true queen supports her king (I hate to say it because that means YH basically deserves to be queen) and a woman who loves her man should try to trust and understand his reasoning but she doesn't. I am probably biased but I have always felt that WS is quick to forgive HS and let things slide but HS is not - she's quick to forgive everyone else but him.  Perhaps it's her knowledge of who KG becomes that makes her more so because she doesn't want to see him like that but she stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt long ago.  

If the only woman he has truly loved doesn't support or understand him - who will?  He's a pitiful character honestly.  

[hello_kathy]

 OK, I haven't back read any of the new posts... But I started watching ep 19, and no subs so I don't know what was spoken... But the scene with So and YW....DID THEY OR DIDN'T THEY?!?  My heart sank, so I stopped watching it, heck, I'm at work and I'm not supposed to be on my phone watching this!!!  I hope they didn't... At least not while this drama is airing

[vu_hoa1983]

7 hours ago, blue003 said:

Did WS actually understand HS? I mean what did he actually think by offering to make HS concubine n then make her a second queen when a kid comes in the picture? HS wanted to leave the palace but why was WS being obsessed with keeping her with him when she clearly said so? Imagine if she had a kid then... WS would have told her-ok you go but leave my child

 If she had wanted power, none of this would have happened. She could have married the king in the first place. I understand WS was desperate but the HS he loved didn't want any of this in the first place.why did he alienate her even more?

 

WS , actually GJ, asked HS to be his queen first and foremost and she refused. At that point, he was ready to risk everything and made her his queen. He always wants to have kids and build a family with her but she is not comfortable with this idea until she gets married. When HS refused to become GJ's queen, she already accepted her fate of sharing him with someone else - especialy with GJ saying she is forever the only Queen in his heart. Him asking HS to marry him is a way to desperately keep her besides him.

Becoming a King's concubine in HS's case was never about power.HS has no backing to use as a leverage to YH anyway. Only GJ's love to her will prevent YH from doing anything bad to her. 

You say that GJ obsessed with keeping her by his side? This is what he means in the beginning until now - even when she didn't love him back he still tried to hold on to her. Because he wants her in his life, despite her defying his orders times and intervening in his decisions. He is trying to hold on to the very very few people he trusts and he even promised not to let her go. Didn't she say she wouldn't leave him too? If she is tired of living in the palace and wants a quiet place to live where he can visit her - that is one thing. But getting married to Jung, becoming another person's wife in a place where is not entitled to go anymore is totally a different thing. HS is tired of everything in the palace - so talk with him through. Tell him how she is tired of seeing all the dead people around her. Tell him how she is scared of the king he becomes.  Tell him everything before taking the drastic action with Wook and Jung. GJ could take her refusal of marrying him if she tells him she loves him enough to not need a status in the palace - instead, she brushes him off coldly.

The GJ I know was never the one who will favor his child over HS or force HS to stay by using her child. Until now, GJ was never cruel to her. 

"I didn't let her go. She was letting go of me" - eventually, GJ did let HS go because he knew she was letting go of him. He still loves her even when knowing about Wook, even after she married to Jung for years. But it takes 2 hands for a relationship. You know what is true obsessiveness? Not letting go until the end even though the other party totally gives up. And you still blame him for holding on to her before letting her go? Trying to hold on to her is what WS must do. Unlike HS, he did try what he could to savage the relationship until he knew there is no point in trying anymore. 

[gwiyeowooh]

When most of people got pressed on HaeSoo after announcing that she wants to leave the palace...

HaeSoo be like...

[moonlovertales]

12 minutes ago, antiherofans said:

 

I still don't get it, why on earth a snake YH can give up everything to WS but our noble HS can't do that even tho he is the love of her life?

 

I think people are really mistaking this. YH didn't give up everything to WS FOR him but rather for her own greed and ambition. She is a woman who couldn't show loyalty to her own blood and mother, what makes anyone think she will show loyalty to WS? She would no sooner give up on WS if she could put another (her son) or herself on that throne.

[moonlover399993]

Just now, kiinn said:

 

I watched both version. There's no 'action' at all, they cut it with So clenching his teeth and stood close to YH. 

I'm dying to deny this, but after re-watching the epi, couldn't help to feel they actually did it, but the director/writer purposely left it vague for our imagination. then, we'll all go nuts and die of curiousity  *scratching my head 'til it bleeds" 

 

Thanks. The only thing I do now is read recaps and check Instagram. Don't have the energy to watch the whole episode. I will once final airs. Just not now. I noticed that, not now but before, that the writer or director, or both, they love to leave scenes vague and ambiguous Really not helpful 

[clarissasan]

Hae Soo still loves Gwang Jong,

it's just how she sees him that has changed in the last 2 episodes. The love still the same and I'm sure her love for him is equal to the love WS has for her.  

We can't measure their love from their action to each other, from their sacrifice to each other.

We saw many of sacfrices that WS had done (that almost took his life)  in the past for HS because i think it's a bold, courageous action and such act like that usually portrayed by 'Man' in our society, in our life.  (at least in novel or movies)

Meanwhile HS took the role of supporting and providing care and comfort, which didn't require her to sacrifice her life or anything and it portrayed 'Woman'. I know this theory sounds strange because now  we know about gender equality in our society, but that's how we commonly portray Man and Woman. And from that I conclude that their way of showing love is different from each other. Wang So by sacrificing, Hae Soo by caring. And that doesn't mean one's love is less than the other.

Hae Soo still loves him but now afraid of him. And GJ didn't do anything better that would make her change her mind.

In the last episode, he gave Chae Ryung a brutal death penalty, and he knew about HS's reaction towards that, she was furious and depressed. Now in this episode we saw GJ (again) gave death penalty to Wang Wook, while he knew HS also treat all the princes like her family.

 

but I appreciate anyone's opinion so that's okay if you're mad at one of them   

[Rose3]

Okay, I am having headache now, I am just going to watch the SBS version tomorrow and for the finale I am not going to watch other versions, will just stream for the SBS and wait for eng subs. 

I am suddenly thinking, it all starts with the visions/premonitions...Hae Soo telling Wook to be careful of Wang So and that affect him later and then she being scared, doubtful and severe of Wang So because of her vision of Wang So being a cruel and bloodied ruler. Also for other visions. 

Why does the writer include this variable? What does her visions/premonitions all mean? What is the point of including them in the plot? Where does all of these ties to?

[babypillow]

If anything out of this series, it made me realised what a fantastic actor LJG is ..... omgoodness !!

His facial expressions, the tears, his slight muscle movements - total silence but speaks volumes with so much emotions. 

What a brilliant actor!! 

[vu_hoa1983]

Hm, I don't really understand why GJ is so mad at HS for having loved WW before. Is this because he assumes HS has always cared for WW from the beginning until now, judging how she asks him to save his life? Since GJ didn't know about their relationship, he couldn't know the reason these two broke up. He is mad because he is jealous that HS stills care about WW even until now? 

Rather, I think GJ is angry that HS doesn't even want to deny or explain - it's like she is totally giving up their relationship.

[yuhotarubi]

2 minutes ago, Rose34 said:

Okay, I am having headache now, I am just going to watch the SBS version tomorrow and for the finale I am not going to watch other versions, will just stream for the SBS and wait for eng subs. 

I am suddenly thinking, it all starts with the visions/premonitions...Hae Soo telling Wook to be careful of Wang So and that affect him later and then she being scared, doubtful and severe of Wang So because of her vision of Wang So being a cruel and bloodied ruler. 

Why does the writer include this variable? What does her visions/premonitions all mean?

 

In her attempt to change history or protect those she cares for, she made it take it's course as it's supposed to happen, I guess that's the only way we can think of it. Those premonitions and her reactions to them is what made history as she knows it happen, only she didn't know that, and I guess that what the writer wants the audience to see as the reason HA-Jin was sent back in time. Right? Only she failed to make her a character on her own and reduced her to a plot point .

[Uniform Victory]

17 minutes ago, moonlovertales said:

 

Had WS been an original character and not based off on the novel, I would have called him a byronic romantic hero but considering he is based off as a different version of the novel character, I call him white-washed. Had it been anyone other than LJG playing this role, It would have fell flat, he makes you feel for the character. Because of this show, I went ahead and read the novel + watched a bit of the c-version, the 4th person is not as interesting as Wang So but I still liked him because he felt real, he felt like a person with faults and shortcomings so it made a lot more sense when they broke off at the end because it was no one's fault really. But here, the writer makes it out to be like everyone is out to see who can hurt Wang So more? I might be invested enough to analyze each character but does the writer really think every viewer will be that invested?

I know, I was quite confused during the first half because Wook seemed to have just as much as equal footing in this love triangle as So though I knew in the end it would be SoSoo but still, lack of insight into HS's mindset did always make me feel uneasy.

In the original story, I found RX to be the most interesting and complex character. Even here I see ALOT of potential for Hae Su to be the same, she had all the ingredients to be an unforgettable heroine even without the politically witty brains of RX. I realized how much of a difference a single dialogue can make due to this show, the scene in the international version where they cut out HS's internal monologue (the leave me alone scene, the scene where WS gets married to the lil kid and HS copies the poem) V/S the scenes where they included it in the SBS version. It made a whole WORLD of difference in understanding her, people who could see her inner thoughts were able to feel sorry for her too compared to people who didn't see it and felt she was the worst witch of Goreyo for hurting WS.

At the end, it depends mainly on the writer or pd on how they treat the character they gave life to.

Bolded part: Believe me, you make COMPLETE sense. I think you summed up the treatment of these two characters perfectly with this one line.

 

 

 

 

For calling the character whitewashed, it is as good as you are not allowing any adaptations to have its own interpretation and originality.

The reason why this drama is well loved by many because it has developed its own flavour. It is not just a cut and paste to the original material which was the novel. This drama version is notches better than its counterpart.

That is the thing. The c-version was female-centric but the k-version was centered on Wang So. It has always been from the first episode.

[ktcjdrama]

After back-reading a few pages, it seems like I'm the only one satisfied with how ep.19 goes? LOL.....

I can actually sleep well tonight. Goodnight all! Am saving some energy and stamina to burn the midnight oil tomorrow.

[paldia]

7 minutes ago, moonlovertales said:

 

I think people are really mistaking this. YH didn't give up everything to WS FOR him but rather for her own greed and ambition. She is a woman who couldn't show loyalty to her own blood and mother, what makes anyone think she will show loyalty to WS? She would no sooner give up on WS if she could put another (her son) or herself on that throne.

That's why I think it was a genious move from GJ (to make YH choose)! Now he knows he can't trust her! Someone who betrays her own blood for power can't be trusted!

[onemella]

gonna back read tmr, it's too late in my country. 
one thing i learn from this episode about myself is, i kept waving goodbye to the tv.

when WH did what she thought was necessary, when BA left WS, when Wook was framed for treason, when YH abandon her bro and fam, when HS left the palace..
i was waving to the tv like 45 mins out of 1 hour that my husband probably thought i am going bonkers.  

praying to the drama gods for a memorable, beautiful and happy last episode. what a dilemma show. 
don't know if i shd watch the sbs version tomorrow..... 

btw, my husband was shouting at the tv(WS was on the tv) to let HS go half the time....
& I was telling him LOVE is different to everyone.

some ppl define love as the other person's happiness (eg: if my loved one is happy, i am happy too)
some ppl define love as possession (eg: if i have the person's heart,mind, body,soul, i am happy)
& i think for us to understand the character arc of each of them in MLSHR, we need to try and identify their definition of love, then perhaps, we would better understand the choices that were made. 

good night all~~ here's a cookie for happiness!

Edited October 31, 2016 by onemella
missed out what my husband said

[outofspace]

54 minutes ago, kdramawriter said:

Idk, the show is TOO subtle with Hae Su and not subtle enough with Wang So if that makes any sense. 

Sorry to cut your post, but I just wanted to focus on this line because I really agree with it. The show has pretty much given us everything about Wang So (we know his backstory, he's blunt and constantly says what is on his mind so he pretty much reads like an open book, etc.), but the show has given us so little when it comes to Soo, which is a shame because she's supposed to be our main character. In terms of character development, she's pretty much been chucked to the side in favor of Wook and Soo. It's also highly ironic that Soo is the only one who isn't a historical figure, so you'd think that there would be a lot more room to play with there, but they've given so little to her character. 

I forgot whose post it was, but I also agree that they've made So far too sympathetic. I also agree with what @moonlovertales has been saying about what has been done with his character. There should have been more of a balance between him and Soo. It seems like the scriptwriter was too afraid to have viewers feel conflicted about So, so instead she took a "safe" route so that all of his actions could be made far more justifiable. 

Another frustration on my part is that Moon Lovers had been doing a pretty good job in terms of diverging from its source material, but now, in its final hours, they've suddenly chosen to stick to how BBJX came to a close. It just comes off as so forced because the set up was totally different and now we're rushing to the end with that. 

I don't know how I feel about tomorrow's episode...endings can make or break things...will a good ending (not necessarily a happy one, but a well-executed one) save its many flaws, or will things just get worse? I hope this show pulls another episode 11 on us. TT____TT

[pwnkl]

11 minutes ago, Sharine Phinisia said:

Which is why she decide to leave the palace. at least So can become the true king without her as his weakness. she is aware that both of them are hurt by this, but she thinks of this as the best way for each of them. (she believes that the bad course of events are because of her, thx to Yeonhwa). her hands are tied, this girl. on the other hand, another day in the palace might give her a heart attack  the symptoms are getting worse in this ep so..

She is altruistic as she is idealistic. Supporting So means to turn a blind eye on his way of doing things that she can't accept. She is ready to compromise (to change her demeanor, reluctantly support So as the king) but not sacrificing her life principles for her man. I find this trait somehow interesting.

Wang So suffer the consequences of his own way to deal with things.I will not cut him some slack on this. like baek ah said, it is hard to stay beside him. If that's what it takes to build a strong Goryo, than So have to "stay away from everything he love so dearly"

In this, were in the same page. I can't argue that her leaving the palace is for So's reign interest.. and also her deteriorating health. I instantly understood her thoughts upon leaving WS.. I even said before, she might have threw away major of her principle such as polygamy but she can't really give up herself. as I believed no one in this world can abandon herself/himself completely.

Quote

Wang So suffer the consequences of his own way to deal with things.I will not cut him some slack on this. like baek ah said, it is hard to stay beside him. If that's what it takes to build a strong Goryo, than So have to "stay away from everything he love so dearly"

I won't stop you with that  WS might have the purest intention but it will never be pristine as it will always stay like a doble edge sword. Even I can't completely justify his actions but one thing I'm sure.. He didn't change from his people. Won Wook and YH and the stupid politics shove that sword towards over his people side.. That I'm certain as WS's character is the most consistently written.

---

I think with all the rant I made, I leave an impression that I hate HS entirely 

I don't hate Hae Soo as she is or on why she's going to leave Wang So or even Go Ha Jin with her 21st century POVs. Even afer the incident with WE and SD.. and the mistrust confrontation with WS.. I never did hate her.. but just this once.. I already said it last night or the day before.. If she dare to hug back or unclench her first towards Wook from the preview stills, I'm going to hate her this once.

And yet here I am witnessing that look she gave him as if he's the HERO once again or until now.. for pete's sake this I'm not sure as I've only watch the raw but it seems that HS still has no idea what creature reside underneath Wook's facade or his evil deed haven't been spilled yet. Yea, given she can't handle seeing others suffer but damn it did she ever think for once what's the reason why Wang So is acting like that? Is Wang So unworthy of benefit of the doubt? Wang So always explains why he went that far to the extent like with CY..did she even listen Wang So's side from the CY burito incident? This is the reason why I'm flipping mad with HS right now.. she's so one sided, when Wang So did her wrong then she's blinded and deaf no matter what WS's reason. But how come she's so unconditionally faithful to Wook before? and with this.. How to accept this brutal certainty comparison?

---

Yea, maybe I'm so furious and blinded with outrage.. guess it's better for me to wait until tomorrow and HOPING~JEBAL TO BE GLADLY REGRETTING AND DEAD MISTAKEN OF ALL MY RANTS! PLEASE DRAMAGODS 

 

[ilovecoffeeandbooks]

So I watched the episode raw and a little with subs thanks to the IUmushimushi live stream, on top of stalking this thread, so I have an okay idea of how everything went down in today's episode. I don't know if it was because everything was rushed (I'm hoping this is so that we have the last episode to mourn their Goryeo love and then celebrate their future love) or if I'm emotionally distancing myself from the show because I know what's coming, but I didn't feel as destroyed by this episode as I thought I would. I mean, I still feel gut punched and when I think of it I literally have a pain in my chest, but I didn't feel like my insides were ripped out and spat on like I expected.

 

Anyway, the end really got me, with Hae Soo's voice over and sad face and Wang So (yes he'll always be So to me, not Gwangjong) crying over the wedding dress.... So sad! Star crossed lovers. I hope that by Soo leaving the wedding dress, it shows So that she doesn't really want to marry Jung, she only wanted to marry him. Maybe that's wishful thinking... 

 

Either way, I'm taking tomorrow off of work, buying a bottle of liquor and some tissues and totally immersing myself in MOON LOVERS DAY! (That's a thing, right?)

Any word on the ratings?

[Uniform Victory]

19 minutes ago, babypillow said:

If anything out of this series, it made me realised what a fantastic actor LJG is ..... omgoodness !!

His facial expressions, the tears, his slight muscle movements - total silence but speaks volumes with so much emotions. 

What a brilliant actor!! 

 

 

 

I totally agree.  His performance is sublime and actually the best thing in this drama. I can't imagine anyone who can play Wang So like he did.  I can't believe this is my first drama of his. Why haven't I come across his dramas before?

[ktcjdrama]

47 minutes ago, Akiddo said:

 

I felt that there was more to the scene where Wook asked the queen to leave the room before his confession - no reason for him to do so unless he has something that he didn't want her to know. Whatever - Wook is dead to me.

You know what, I think (I hope) he confessed about YH's involvement in the poisoning incident too. WS is keeping this ace card to himself first before later using it against YH. Wook probably pleaded with WS to let HS go because he sees that she is hurting too much being in the palace? That if WS truly loves HS, he should let her go... So the whole WS being very angry at HS for ever loving Wook was just an act to finally (indirectly) give his approval for HS to leave? I mean, why would WS later told JM calmly and resignedly that he didn't abandon HS. It was HS who abandon him, when he clearly said to HS the previous night that he never wants to see her again. Am I even making sense? It's late. I should head to bed....