[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[junejungki]

22 minutes ago, tinniet said:

Can someone confirm about this? I don't want to keep my hope high for nothing. I have trust issue with everything good about MLSHR.

Same here. I dont to keep my hope high either. We must get confirmation first.

[wenlhy]

58 minutes ago, SizzlerZ said:

 

I actually don't know what to believe anymore because I just read that the 1st special episode was released 27th August but what's confusing is that the 1st episode released 29th August (Source: Wikipedia). I mean I know Wiki isn't the most reliable source in the world but I really don't know who to believe and who not to believe. It also said that the 2nd special was released 7th Sep, so specials have already been released apparently. Are they re-run? I checked on SBS schedule and we don't have any specials showing

I think the special episodes are those videos show in youtube, just search special episode ryeo, it doesn't has any behind the scene, there is just a host explaining how korean lives during goryeo era, including why king marrying lots of wife for politic problem, and more.

[junejungki]

17 minutes ago, atgirlina said:

Check out @raerst's Tweet:

That screencap look different from onetvasia. can someone recognise from what website schedule it was captured?

6/11 is Sunday. OneTVAsia will air the encore last 2 episode. What is this special episode on Monday 7/11?? OneTVAsia didnt post anything on special epsiode though.

[cunyu75moon]

8 minutes ago, junejungki said:

Same here. I dont to keep my hope high either. We must get confirmation first.

Agree

[stevii]

@40somethingahjumma @Rose34 i'm behind you guys all the way! i always agree with your posts ! sometimes i already planned to write something and then i stumble upon your post and say 'oh never mind its posted already' loll. and also there's one user that i feel like i always agree to her/him, the writer of overthingkingkdrama tumblr, i heard she/he is also here in the forum but i forgot the username.. xD but anyways nice to meet you guys in this forum! 

@40somethingahjumma @Rose34 i'm behind you guys all the way! i always agree with your posts ! sometimes i already planned to write something and then i stumble upon your post and say 'oh never mind its posted already' loll. and also there's one user that i feel like i always agree to her/him, the writer of overthingkingkdrama tumblr, i heard she/he is also here in the forum but i forgot the username.. xD but anyways nice to meet you guys in this forum! 

[enigmatic_zephy]

38 minutes ago, kiinn said:

I think ONETV is just doing an encore. Disappointed . 

lol.. r they really expecting repeat viewership after literally stabbing everyone in the heart ( i don't just mean unfavourable ending.. its just the sadness in the entire two episodes from sec 1.0)

Only a sadist would do that to themselves.. back to back weeks

[runitaaa]

 Please count me in the ML minority-who-loved-the-ending club @40somethingahjumma For me it just enough heartache, enough bitter sweet memories, enough closure and I am saying big no no for season 2. Don't ruin my perfect ending with some random modern day drama about Wang So's doppelganger

[pauexclusive]

From a scale of 1 to scarletheartryeo how devastated are you? 

 

 

[ShaiKeun]

29 minutes ago, cunyu75moon said:

it is true about the special episodes??

I am asking the same question too. I am afraid that i will be disappointed again.  It will be too much. A week for another week. Maybe that time, i will be seen in the streets, kicking cans while crying! 

[Rose3]

1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Thanks @Rose34. You're too kind and very sweet.  Always enjoy hearing from someone else who shares the same views.

Sometimes I think the show was made just for me because I like almost everything about it. Which is quite ironic as it turns out because I didn't like the first episode the first time I saw it. It's so strange how that's turned out because I feel like I've become one of the show's staunchest defenders by virtue of my liking it as much as I do. 

The editing issues have never really fazed me in the way it seems to bother others. In fact, for me it's one of the show's charms that there's ambiguity and no exposition overkill as is the case with many K dramas. It's been such a wonderfully, stimulating journey for me to be following this show. I'd love to go back and watch all the episodes again but that will have to be for my summer holidays in December, which isn't really all that far away.

My firmest opinion is that this show was probably slated to be at least 24 episodes judging from all the editing issues and rumours of deleted scenes. 20 episodes for a sageuk is ridiculous, especially one spanning over three decades. I don't think I've ever watched a sageuk with less than 23 episodes before (aside from The Three Musketeers but that was supposed to be the first of multiple seasons). Almost everyone's been busy gunning the PD and writer for the show's problems but I suspect that the real problem probably lies with the money types.

Thank you too, @LyraYoo... I feel we ought to form a ML minority-who-loved-the-ending club after this.

On hindsight, I love all of it too, the good, the bad, the obvious and the non-obviousness! It leaves your mind open to interpretations and imagination, I feel like I am in Goryeo dynasty watching events unfolding. Lol. I am lucky to be born in the modern world, that was my first reaction when Soo returns back to the modern world.  And like you, I wasn't hooked at the first 3 episodes. The episode 1 with half-clothed princes is the last thing that would entice me to watch a drama! Haha!

But I stay tune because I could sense there is something that meets more than the eyes and that major things will happen later. I was hooked and addicted to a point of no return after episode 10. The emotional rollercoaster is epic. Then I stumble to this thread and reading all the comments made the journey more fun and I come to understand and appreciate the drama more. The journey is worthwhile and indeed "stimulating"!

There is a hidden gem and brilliance in the drama. I can't remember the last time I feel so strongly, attached, invested and immersed to a K-drama. I will remember it for a long time. It becomes one of my all-time favourite and I think I am among the few who feels happy and satisfied with the ending and the drama once I watched the SBS version with subs. Only the few dramas that I can re-watch more than once. 

Like you, I actually thought that it would have been better if they have 24 episodes, thus it allow more room for greater characters developments and for events to unfold without feeling a little rushed or confused. The latter half of the drama is when the story gets more meatier and intense. Indeed, the amount of time period the drama covers can't be compressed into 20 episodes, there is bound to be many cut scenes. The drama covers the 4 early King's reigns of Goryeo dynasty. Of course, they are things that can be improved further but I guess they do what they could. This is the first few big-budget pre-produced drama. Nevertheless I still enjoy it! 

I guess the production and investing companies have exerted some kind of opinions, decisions and demands. I can sense that from having rap songs for a Sageuk drama. Actors and actresses are paid on per episode basis, thus they cut it to save labour costs I guess. Sageuk dramas are generally more expensive to be produced due to the sheer number of people involved. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Rose34

[hobeverly1212]

YEah exactly! ONE TV doesnt indictae any special ep on 7th Nov Monday. It;s just showing the repeats of the last 2 eps twice in the same day!
anyway to get confirmation from SBS or something? 

and if there are special eps, would there be like 2 versions again lol?

[andy78]

the special ep will be on 6 or 7 nov....when?i really hope they will let us see WS and HS meeting again....

[jerboa83]

I just finished watching ep. 18. I know I'm late... It's just that I couldn't master the courage to watch the last four episodes for a while. Let me tell you that Hae Soo is not the only one who's slowly and painfully dying for the psycho-physical consequences of this drama...

[dramu51ch0c10ve]

(Pardon the foul language.I can't cancel that)

2 different accounts tweeted about this.Seems to be from Chinese website?Questions in my head now:

1.Is this website official?

2.What is this 'special episode'?A BTS or Deleted Scenes or Summary?

3.Is there really just 1 special episode?And if so,exactly what time and when is it aired?

4.THE ULTIMATE QN:What does LJK's 'soon' mean?

[jerboa83]

I have A LOT to backtrack... Was there any reaction to the fan project from the cast?

[ohgee]

I dont want a scarlet heart season 2 either cause i know it will be a mess, all i want is the deleted wang so hae soo meeting in modern day because the ending dosent feel complete to me without it.

[jerboa83]

6 minutes ago, jerboa83 said:

I just finished watching ep. 18. I know I'm late... It's just that I couldn't master the courage to watch the last four episodes for a while. Let me tell you that Hae Soo is not the only one who's slowly and painfully dying for the psycho-physical consequences of this drama...

Since I still have to watch the final two episodes, let me tell you something: the script reached a point where I now end hoping (yes, I mean it...) for a sad or an open ending. A happy ending wouldn't make sense anymore, imho, and wouldn't match the mood of the last two/thirds of the drama...

[zi4r]

Hello, hello. I just got back home, and there are 37 incident-reports in my bag that I'm supposed to be wading through.....

..... but well, procrastination & MLSHR win, so here I am, posting again.

I don't have time to make this into a proper post, so it's going to be quite disorganized. If there's any confusion, or if you feel as if I am skipping around from point to point, I apologize for that. And my tone might come across as abrupt & rude, because I am still in office-mode and I haven't had time to modulate my language. So apologies if I offend anyone.

Here goes....

 

 

@30orsomething That was a great read! All your frustrations from the past 2 months just spilled right out, huh? I feel your pain, dear. My love-hate relationship with MLSHR has left me raw & tortured too. Problem is, rather than making me run away from this drama, the empty void left by this unsatisfying journey & conclusion only makes me keep thinking about it all the effing time! I'm in this headloop I can't escape.

Truth is, I've been needing this. Since BBC Sherlock series 2, I haven't found anything to be obsessed with. And having nothing to fully engage my imagination & creativity means that I was left with nothing to write, and that was hell. Then, MLSHR came along, and the 6-minute preview breathed life into my writing brain. The plot allows for endless possibilities and I was so excited at the prospect of getting such a meaty piece of drama.

But as it turns out, that was exactly the problem with the drama. There were endless possibilities in terms of story-arc & sub-plots. The drama could have been multi-genred, and it allow for multiple over-arcing messages & overtones to be included. The massive cast/characters mean that there can be much intertwining in their fates & motivations. Those could have been the strengths of the drama, yet they turned out to be its undoing. With such potential & possibilities, the writer/director seems to want to achieve too many things at once, and ended up not achieving anything in full. Many of the sub-plots & plot-devices & characters were left unattended or forgotten. And with its too-short 20-episode run, we were left with half-baked plot & inconsistent/unfinished plot-points & misused plot-devices & undeveloped characters...... as you put it here:

12 hours ago, 30orsomething said:

With the huge number of characters, I was excited at first, expected that we would have many parallel stories of different characters with different backgrounds, interests, motives. And as the drama went, their stories would intertwine, affecting one another and create unexpected twists and turns.

And what did I get? Nothing. It’s like a joke that apart from WW, no one seemed to have a life of her/his own. We didn’t get to see how they managed their own life, interacted with people, loved or hated. They were all like useless zombies, just sat around waiting to fulfill their duty toward Wang So, be it torturing, attacking, mistreating, supporting or loving. We only get glimpses of their life here and there but they were never enough. And they were so small and shallow snippets that they are boring and annoying to watch. The time budget for them only got excessively generous right before they died (remember Lady Oh, Wang Yo, Wang Eun, Woo Hee?)

It’s an overstatement to say many characters are underdeveloped. May I say, they don’t have any developments to begin with (except for Wook), they only had sudden justification of motive and purpose right before getting killed.

 

 

Next, I wish to address this point:

12 hours ago, 30orsomething said:

First I was super confused by all the characters' behaviors, the bumpy progresses in their relationships, the sudden changes in their motives. But miraculously, when a question about the logicality of it all arose, you Eclipses had them answered in a most satisfactory manner possible (I am not being sarcastic here, it's a sincere praise!).

There are many instances where I feel as if the writer & the director & the editing team were not communicating with one another. Each party seems to have their own motivation behind each scene, and I feel they sometimes end up working against each other. That's why important scenes were cut; voice-overs were missing. And that results in the audience being confused about the scenes.

It's not necessarily the writer's fault, because they are not true inconsistencies in the plot. The problem is that the writer's intention/motivation behind including a scene/voice-over is not communicated well to the director or the editing team, so the audience ended up missing out on important explanation/rationalization behind the characters' actions.

For example, let's talk about this supposedly very well-done scene of the arguably best episode (Ep11):

When it first aired, I wanted to do an extensive technical analysis of the scene, because it was so well done. Just to highlight a few impressive points (in the spoiler tag):

Spoiler

Throwing up blood & collapsing might seem like an over-used over-done plot in sageuk/wuxia drama, but such scenes are generally not well-done. There's much room for error in directing, acting & editing. Usual flaws are:

• Blood-work is usually unconvincing. The tendency is to use too little blood... one mouthful, spit out, and done.

Here, blood is constantly leaking from WS's mouth even after he loses consciousness, which is how it is supposed to be.

• Usually, they try not to show the injured/unconscious party too much (even though that compromises the amount of sympathy they can milk out of audiences.) That's because actors tend to over-act/not know how to act as the inactive/injured party. As they say, "not acting" (as in, staying still) is the hardest part of acting.

LJG's dazed reaction after the fall (WS didn't react to HS's screaming/manhandling him for a few seconds after his fall), his slack jaw with blood still leaking while unconscious, his relaxed stance when being lifted up...... They were all amazingly on-point. And that's bloody difficult to do. (pun intended)

• The scenes are usually wrought with continuation errors. There's a lot of room for continuation issues, you see: positioning of limbs/clothes after the fall, how the blood looks, etc. Normally, they would try & keep the scene short, and the shooting is done from just one angle or similar angles, so that continuation issues can be hidden.

Yet this is a very long scene. Shooting was done from at least 5 angles, and there are at least 2 wide angle shots. That's very risky...... yet they managed to keep it tight enough for the continuation issues to go unnoticed.

So, that scene is a piece of art, and deserves all the praise.

But before I could do a massive shot-by-shot technical post about it, my husband spoiled it for me. His question: "Erm..... If WS didn't want HS to be found with him, why was he following her? Why was he reaching for her?"

Right..... Thanks, husband, for spoiling my mood, but that's a good question. Of course, ever a MLSHR-defender, I have many reasons to give him. "Maybe he wanted to warn her. Maybe he's just in too much pain and not know what he's doing."

But you know what the problem is? I shouldn't have to be the one providing explanation/excuses!!! The explanation could have been easily included as a voice-over of WS's thoughts in the scene. E.g. "Hae Soo... I must warn her...." See? Done.

I know it's a small issue in this case. But it's an easily avoidable issue. It shows that the drama focuses so much on visual aspects of the scenes that it compromises on the story-telling. And then, fans like us have to step in to provide excuses after excuses to cover the production team's behind.

 

 

Now, the point I don't totally agree with @30orsomething....

We both agree that there are massive problems with the drama. I've talked about where the problems lie: half-baked plot & inconsistent/unfinished plot-points & misused plot-devices & undeveloped characters. Getting such a messy/underdeveloped/underwhelming piece of drama is nothing new to us. Such dramas have existed & are easily forgotten. But this is not a normal failure. There's something else to it..... or at least, I feel there's something else to it..... which is what you were saying here:

12 hours ago, 30orsomething said:

All the plot/incentive/character mismanagement were articulated by@zi4r so it’s not necessary to mention it here (truth is, with my terrible English and messy writing, I don’t think I can handle this task). I just want to say that, it seems we are suffering from CONSPIRACY THEORY SYNDROME aka THE EMPEROR’S NEW CLOTHES MINDSET (I don’t know if there’s really something like this, the words just jumped out of my brain). That’s it, we tended to give more credit to the writer, create more layers of meaning to the characters’ actions and behaviors, give the existing plot another underlying plot under yet another  underlying plot. We can’t stand the thought that there’s nothing there, and all the struggles were baseless, clueless, purposeless. That’s our tragedy.

Maybe, I am suffering from the conspiracy-theory-syndrome as you say. But for me, this is not an accidental failed writing. Here's why.

Writing a mediocre piece of drama/story is pretty easy. Even with the huge cast & too much ground to cover & too few episodes, you can easily do a mediocre drama, which will make us go "Meh. It's just okay." Given its high budget & eye-candy cast, it could have been a visually pleasing & crowd-pleasing drama, even without a good enough plot.

But the writer/director/editing team chooses to disappoint us every step of the way.

• There could have been easy/cheap OTP scenes. But there aren't. They made sure that all the OTP scenes are tinged with misunderstandings/avoidance/sadness. I know that many fans refuse to see them that way, but the most beautiful OTP scenes in this drama are the most screwed-up or the most tragic ones.
• There could have been satisfying revenge. That's easy to do. Include another core character -- someone not part of the real history. Make that person evil. Make GJ give him a satisfying punishment. Done. Our thirst for justice (or blood-thirst) can be partially satisfied that way, and we could find some solace in it. Yet, the only cruel punishment went to CR, who is the least evil among the wrong-doers. For everyone else, we got wishy-washy justice.
• There could have been a bit of salvation, even among the injustice. Here, I'm gonna talk about YH again. If they made her to be a bit more sympathetic character, her becoming queen would be bearable for us. But the show chooses not to do it; she's portrayed as a b**** through & through.
• There could have been a tragic ending in Goryeo, where HS dies in GJ's arms.... no future plot at all. Or, HS gets back to the future and meets WS/GJ there, aka happy ending. Either of those endings, happy or sad, we won't be this pissed. But nooooo. They choose to send her to the future, make sure she remembers her time in Goryeo so she will live in grief. Then, they show GJ left as a ruthless shell of a man. They choose to highlight that he has no relationship with his kids. This is the ending intended to make us feel utterly raw.

This is not failed writing. It is intentional cruelty. And I feel, the intention is to ensure that the audience feels as raw & tortured & helpless as WS & HS.

 

We the audience think of this journey as pointless, futile & absolutely meaningless. WS & HS should think the same way. Yet they don't. Look at the ending:

• HS apologizing for leaving WS..... It should mean that she thinks she still could have changed his fate if she stayed.
• WS vowing to find HS..... As futile as he thinks his life has been, he hopes to overcome that futility in some other world.

Why? Because of their love for each other. This drama paints the cruelty of the universe, because it seems any effort to defy the universe's intentions is futile. But there are a few people like WS & HS who are willing to defy their fate..... all because of love.

Well, at least, that's how I see it. Maybe I'm a fool in love too....... foolishly in love with MLSHR enough to defy all logic & still grasping at straws. 

 

 

But I wish to reiterate one very important point: In my opinion, MLSHR is still a very very badly written/executed drama.

@40somethingahjumma When you quoted this part of my post:

On 11/2/2016 at 10:35 AM, zi4r said:

Anyway, we're dealing with either the dumbest/most incompetent writer of all times, or the most brilliant & cruel one. I haven't made up my mind yet.

... you might have misunderstood my intention behind that statement. I don't necessarily disagree with anything specific you're saying in that post. (Well, I don't like the finale, but that's more personal preference than anything.) But I don't think my quote above belong in that post of yours, because we're talking about entirely different things.

And that's all my fault really... because I say "most brilliant & cruel" so it's natural to assume that I think her writing is brilliant. What I actually meant to say was:

If my assumption --- that the writer has an underlying moral message of "futility" or something else to the drama --- is true, then that is the most brilliant & cruel stunt I've ever seen a writer pull in a drama. But that doesn't mean, I think the writer really managed to do that well.

I still stand by each & every criticism I've given about this drama here:

Spoiler

On 11/2/2016 at 10:35 AM, zi4r said:

Negatives:

I regret I ever decided to watch SHR. As I've said in my long review yesterday, it's a true case-study in expectation (mis)management. No, I am not pissed about the lack of happy-ending; I am pissed about the pointlessness of it all. The show didn't do justice to ANYONE:

• Gwangjong, a great ruler --- Ruthless or not, he did a lot of good during his reign, and now all his actions/achievements/decisions are being attributed to him being a man, broken by endless mistreatment & one lost love.
• (Supposingly) Epic romance and undying love of GJ/WS & HS --- The show made GJ a man defined by love..... that is fine if the show did that love/romance true justice. But it didn't. Their love is defined only by pain.

All their meaningful moments are tinged with pain & avoidance & miscommunication. They have never truly communicated as a couple of equals throughout their love life. They never were a true couple, period.

Worse still, there's no redemption in this story. The miscommunications were never resolved, even after HS's death. Once HS's memories came back in the future, all she could feel is regret & pain. Even GJ's "I will find you, my Soo" is another miscommunication, one that truly haunts me. Because he has no knowledge of how exactly they are of "two different worlds"... how they are separated not just by death, but by time... how he has never truly understood/knew her.

This is no normal tragic love story. This is a love story that has never truly begun, yet has ended. I have no doubt that they love one another (each in his/her own way) and that their love was immense. But the story-arc never did their feelings justice, until the very raw & non-resolution end.

• Hae Soo as a character --- She was a nobody in 2016. Then, she got sent back to Goryeo, where she suffered & suffered. WS's/GJ's form of love & protection stifled her & left her without freedom or individuality. She lost her true self in Goryeo; she became a shell rather than a truly living being, and that can be greatly blamed on WS, the man who loves her with all his heart.

The universe's purpose of HS being sent back to Goryeo is to make the history happen the way it always has been. Am I making sense??? Without her, our Korean/Goryeo history would not have been the way it is now.... the way HS knows the history to be even before she was sent back.

HS thinks the purpose of her being sent back is to influence/change the history as she knows it. But she is the cause of that history. After trying so hard to make GJ a better man (as she defines it), now she realizes that she is the true cause of all the tragedy at the hands of GJ. Without her pain & suffering throughout her stay in Goryeo, GJ wouldn't have been this angry & vengeful. And without her leaving, GJ wouldn't have become this soulless & ruthless.

Hae Soo. A character we rooted for because of her giving spirit & her spunkiness. She lost it all in this story, didn't get anything (even true loving relationship) in exchange for it, and now has to live with the guilt that she is the cause of everything she hates about Gwangjong's reign.

• Other characters --- No one except WS/GJ get a satisfying character development. Other than GJ/WS, HS & WW (and maybe YH), everyone else is just a walking-talking humanoid, a rough-sketch stage of character forming. Many of these characters existed in history, and the show's mishandling in portrayal their motivations/actions is so demeaning to these great men & women.
• MLSHR audience & fans --- The show didn't deliver anything it advertised.

It delivered a half-baked plot where we had to keep filling in the blanks with excuses & explanations & speculations.

Its short 20-episode run made a joke out of political intrigue and key historical events, with its way of rushing through the plot-points without any impact.

It didn't do justice to the romance --- its key storyline --- because it couldn't show a true couplehood of the OTP due to the time-skips. And that was never redeemed in the finale in any fulsome way.

I know that everyone on this forum is suddenly in a forgiving mood. But the problems in this show are hardly forgivable. For me to be a true fan of the show, I have to be honest. And honestly, my disappointment cannot even be put into words.

 

Even if the writer chooses this plot-trajectory & ending for a specific purpose of making an over-arcing message about "futility" or something else, it is no excuse for the endless instances of lazy writing & stunted character-developments. While trying so hard to make this drama unconventional, the writer totally failed to capitalize on what could have been conventionally well-executed plot points.

Thus, as much as I admire the guts the writer has shown, I cannot bring myself to praise the writer for the shoddy overall execution.

Tragic, really. Because this could have been a true masterpiece. What a waste.

Edited November 3, 2016 by zi4r
grammar & formatting

[Ainee Etp]

For everyone who is asking about a special episode. Ok, I've gotten it from a site and after slow burning download, I had just finished watching it. If the one I watched is the exact special episode, you might get disappointed.

Spoiler

There's no alternate ending in this special episode. It's a narration of Goryeo history, how Wang Geon has 34 children and 29 wives, life of Goryeo people - and gosh... the narrator's body language feels very Ji Mong . Then we have some interview of LJG, IU and other cast during the filming and some BTS. 

 

[atgirlina]

My mistake. sorry. delete post

Edited November 3, 2016 by atgirlina