[Drama 2017] Saimdang, Light's Diary 사임당, 빛의 일기

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"It's a shame that the scene during SMH's lesson when they recited Jeong Seung Mung's poem "Dianthus Chinensis" was not included in the GMA7 broadcast,..."

It look like the GMA7 version is more "chop up" (40 min slot?) than the SBS version loosing a lot of content. It maybe that the Filipinos like their drama in novelas style rather than interest in Korean culture & insights

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Perhaps it is because it is not as easy to dub the recitation of a poem. I wish I paid attention to the Malay-dubbed versions on Oh!K during such scenes... to be honest, I am curious how they would have dubbed them too. Too bad iflix only has the original audio, and no dubs.

[plainenglish]

@gerrytan8063 @liddi

Notes on GMA7 (Philippines) broadcast of “Saimdang, Soulmates Across Time” on Tuesday, August 15:

1. Episode begins with Lee Gyeom’s great-aunt ordering him to get married.

2. Episode ends with Jillian finding the Biikjo seal on the portrait of the Joseon beauty.

3. Frequent complaints of viewers: too many commercials shown by GMA7. Unlike Korea which prohibits commercial breaks within an episode, here in the Philippines, commercial breaks practically have no limit. For "Saimdang" GMA7 has around four commercial breaks within an episode, and each break is jammed with commercials.(GMA7 must be raking in the money from this drama!)

4. Question: What exactly did King Jungjong give to Lee Gyeom (which he in turn gave to Saimdang)? Ink from Ming or a Ming ink stone ("ink stick" in the English sub) with ink in it? Ep. 6 which happens 20 years after, Saimdang still has that ink stone or ink stick (presumably the ink either dried up or been totally used up). Filipinos on Twitter are saying that it’s ink that’s valuable.

5. In tonight’s episode, GMA7 did have that conversation between Lee Gyeom and Saimdang about her fondest wish to climb Mount Geumgang. Her dialogue in Filipino goes like this (“bundok ng Geumgang” refers to Mount Geumgang):

“Sana ay makita rin natin ang bundok ng Geumgang. Pangarap ko kasi iyon. Bago ako pumanaw, gusto kong makita ang bundok na iyon.”

GMA7 also showed that scene between Saimdang and King Jungjong where she says that her painting has no soul since she has not seen or been to Mount Geumgang.

6. GMA7 in August 14 and 15 episodes did not mention anything about the Dianthus flower.

7. The translation of King Jungjong’s poem, posted below, is quite good. The “Gi-myo year” was translated in Filipino as “taon ng kuneho” or in English, “year of the rabbit.” Is “year of the rabbit” a good translation of “Gi-myo year”?

Ikinalulungkot ko, ka-awaawang mga kababayan

Na ang tinakda sa inyong mapait na kapalaran.

Ang taon ng kuneho’y napuno ng inyong pagdurusa!

Ang bayang ito’y hindi nalaman ang tunay kong nararamdamam.

Sinong maaaring umunawa sa aking pusong may pinapasan?

(I can’t really hear what the 2nd line is saying, and so that line may not be accurate. Plus “hindi nalaman” in the 4th line, I think it should have been translated as “hindi alam.”)

8. Based on Twitter comments, viewers seem to be enjoying the shift from historical timeline to modern timeline or vice-versa. I haven't read a negative comment about the shift from timeline to timeline.

9. In a Joseon wedding, what do the three red dots (circles) on a bride’s face represent?

 

[gerrytan8063]

@plainenglish @liddi

"4. Question: What exactly did King Jungjong give to Lee Gyeom (which he in turn gave to Saimdang)? Ink from Ming or a Ming ink stone ("ink stick" in the English sub) with ink in it? Ep. 6 which happens 20 years after, Saimdang still has that ink stone or ink stick (presumably the ink either dried up or been totally used up). Filipinos on Twitter are saying that it’s ink that’s valuable."

It looks like the Filipinos badly needs lesson in East Asia culture

Yes the Ink Stick is a value treasure to Saimdang who is from literary family. Ink Stick is one of the 4 treasure of Study together paper, ink stone & brush of the Chinese classical literary culture. In order to make ink - the ink stick (made from soot & animal glue) are ground onto the ink stone with some drop of water to make ink

 

 

"The “Gi-myo year” was translated in Filipino as “taon ng kuneho” or in English, “year of the rabbit.” Is “year of the rabbit” a good translation of “Gi-myo year”?"

Gi-myo (기묘, 己卯) is actually how Chinese define the years in sexagenary cycle written in Classic chinese. Lay's men term it is the year of the Earth Rabbit. Gi (기,己) is Earth, there are 5 elements, Earth, Metal, Fire, Wood & Water, while Myo (묘, 卯) is marked by Rabbit taken from the 12 Chinese Zodiac signs. Just for information this last Gimyo year -- the year of Earth Rabbit is 1999 & the next is 2059 

"6. GMA7 in August 14 and 15 episodes did not mention anything about the Dianthus flower."

The best scene to detect is when Jillian (Seo Ji Yun) son goes to a museum shop with his grandfather & buy the Dianthus flower bracelet for his mother & gave it to her when Jillian was looking through the information on Peter Paul Rubens "Man in a Korean Costume"

"9. In a Joseon wedding, what do the three red dots (circles) on a bride’s face represent?"

Red dots are drawn or adhered to the bride’s cheeks & forehead to symbolise youth & virginity.

[gerrytan8063]

East Asia calligraphy & painting techniques

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SDxuJA_2ss

[plainenglish]

@gerrytan8063 @liddi

Notes on GMA7 (Philippines) broadcast of “Saimdang, Soulmates Across Time” on Wednesday, August 16:

1. Episode begins with Prof. Min ordering his minions to watch Jillian and Zanjo.

2. Episode ends with King Jungjong ordering his bodyguard to kill all the people who received his poem.

3. English translation of Ouyang Xiu’s poem “Butterflies Romancing Flowers” cited in an earlier page:

I am waiting for spring to arrive at this beautiful pavilion,
but it is taking a painstakingly long time.
As pairs of swallows come by, the willow branches sway in the wind,
and the peach blossoms flutter in the air.

As I watch the endless rain and wind that sweeps the garden,
only sadness and anguish well up in my eyes,
and the one whom I await is nowhere to be seen.

Filipino translation of Ouyang Xiu’s poem “Butterflies Romancing Flowers” from GMA7:

Sa magandang palasyo, hinihintay ko ang tagsibol.
Tila bumagal ang oras.
Isang pares ng maya ang humuhuni at lumilipad nang magkasama sa paligid ng isang puno.
Walang tigil ang pag-ambon at pabugso-bugso ang hangin sa hardin.
Nagsimula akong mabahala kung darating pa ang tamang panahon.

- “pavilion” is translated “palasyo” which in English is “palace”

- “only sadness and anguish well up in my eyes, and the one whom I await is nowhere to be seen” is translated as “Nagsimula akong mabahala kung darating pa ang tamang panahon.” Among Filipinos, the phrase "tamang panahon" has a certain meaning ("waiting for love at the right time") associated with the so-called "AlDub phenomenon" that swept the country over a year ago. 

The English text of the poem is richer in detail than the Filipino translation, but I do understand that the translation must meet dubbing requirements.

4. I didn’t catch this in the English subs of the SBS version, but in the GMA7 broadcast, when Lee Gyeom asks Seok Soon where or how she learned how to read and write, she replies “Ojukheon” (which is Saimdang’s ancestral house). Meaning, Seok Soon learned from listening in to Shin Myung-hwa’s lectures to Saimdang and her sisters.

In an earlier scene, Seok Soon tells her mother that she got permission from someone to go someplace where she can learn to read and write. I’ve been thinking months before that she was probably referring to Saimdang’s father.

From the Korean dialogues or from the international version, did you hear Seok Soon tell Lee Gyeom that she learned to read and write in Ojukheon?

[liddi]

@plainenglish In the international version, both the English and Chinese subs did imply in those two scenes that Seok Soon was given permission by SMH to listen in and learn at Ojukheon. The subs say thus:

Seok Soon (to her mother): The lord at Ojukheon said that I could come and study. He said I can come every day.
Seok Soon (to Gyeom who asks if how she learnt to read): I learned at the village school for girls at Ojukheon. I had permission to listen in from afar.

The SBS version omits this part of Seok Soon's explanation to Gyeom, cutting directly instead to him asking if she could write.

I am glad to hear that the translations of the key poems are pretty much on point so far, understanding the limitations of trying to fit the words into a dub, rather than subs. I myself often have the same problem trying to maintain all the meaning behind what may be just 4 Chinese words into minimal English text.

How is the viewer reception thus far? Are they loving it? Have there been complaints that SSH has yet to make a significant appearance after Eps1 and 2?

[plainenglish]

48 minutes ago, liddi said:

How is the viewer reception thus far? Are they loving it? Have there been complaints that SSH has yet to make a significant appearance after Eps1 and 2?

1. From Twitter comments, no negative reactions yet about not seeing SSH more. It seems that Filipino  fans love Yang Se-jong (young Lee Gyeom) and Park Hye-su (young Saimdang).

But the complaints are still on the too many commercials by GMA7. I've read some people saying that they would rather watch SLD on the Internet where there are no commercials.But It's still quite an experience hearing SLD characters speak in Filipino.

2. I’m still waiting to see how “Saimdang” is doing in the ratings. You can check the ratings at http://www.starmometer.com that gives daily ratings (based on ratings by a company called Kantar Media).

The late evening schedule 10-11 PM could work against SLD. Plus, there are ongoing basketball games between the Philippines and several other countries in a FIBA tournament; Filipinos are crazy about basketball.

Perhaps, a good indication of SLD’s popularity is that GMA7’s trailer video for last night’s episode has 21,000 views.

[plainenglish]

Notes on GMA7 (Philippines) broadcast of “Saimdang, Soulmates Across Time” on Thursday, August 17

1. Episode begins with King Jungjong almost insanely thinking that the ministers and other princes are conspiring against him, and his bodyguard asking what to do with Lee Gyeom.

I haven’t seen SLD Ep. 4 international version, but (from the online videos of August 17 broadcast that I have seen) it seems that GMA7 deleted the following scenes:

- Saimdang’s paintings and drawings being burned, Saimdang protects the Mount Geumgang painting, and the painting being hid in a wall;

- the other scholars who received the poem being killed;

- Saimdang visiting her father's burial ground.

- Lee Gyeom walking out of his wedding and watching Saimdang and her children leave for Hanyang;

- Jillian and Zanjo going to Saimdang's ancestral house;

- Lee Gyeom passing by but not seeing Saimdang and her kids in Hanyang;

- Saimdang checking up on Woo and bringing him to a doctor (voiceover simply states what the doctor said about the needed medicine)

- Min Chi-hyung tying the servant who broke a valuable vase to a stake and slashing him with a sword, leaving him there to die.

- scenes in the Jungbu Fellowship with Lee Gyeom playing the geomungo and later meeting but not recognizing Seok Soon (who's now Hwieumdang),

These scenes are in Ep. 4 SBS version; if indeed GMA7 deleted these scenes, it has butchered this episode! ( I will check other online videos of GMA7's broadcast to see if these scenes were really deleted.)

OR, am I getting totally and utterly confused with the differences between the episodes in the SBS version and the international version?

2. Episode ends with Lee Gyeom going to Sujinbang to confront Saimdang.

3. Interesting study: “Strong Women in the Eyes of Filipinas: A Reception Study of Korean TV Dramas” by Michelle Camille Correa, Chulalongkorn University, Bangkok, Thailand at http://congress.aks.ac.kr/korean/files/2_1357266442.pdf

Highlights of the study:

“This study found out that Filipino working women are drawn to Korean TV dramas because of the engaging story lines, high production value, portrayals of strong women, and charismatic actors. They related and identified with female characters’ strong desire for education, the hard work that goes into their careers, and their willingness to sacrifice for their families.”

“Comfort with the English language was also cited by some informants on why they prefer English subtitles when watching K-dramas instead of those dubbed in Filipino.”

“As they immersed themselves in K-dramas, they began to know more aspects of Korean culture as well. However, the meanings they glean from their K-drama viewing is based from their “consumption position”—one that is far removed from the original Korean cultural context.”

4. Interesting study: “Korea Vs. K-Dramaland: The Culturalization of K-Dramas By International Fans” by Marion Schulze (Senior Lecturer in Gender Studies at the Center for the Understanding of Social Processes (MAPS), University of Neuchâtel, Switzerland)

Highlight of the study:

“K-Dramas do not transmit a set definition of “Korean culture” that is also received as such, but that, instead, Korean culture is an imagined and negotiated product constructed by an international audience through the mediations of interlocutors who are defined as cultural experts.”

 

[liddi]

@plainenglish The scenes you mentioned are also in the international version, so it is truly a shame that these were lost on the editing floor, particularly the burning of her paintings, the hiding of the Mt. Geumgang painting behind the wall, and the killing of the scholars who received the poem. While not necessarily advancing the plot, the omission of Saimdang and Gyeom as they passed by unaware of each other's presence in Hanyang, brought emotional resonance and such poignancy that was a precursor to their relationship development going forward. SJY and HSH's visit to Saimdang's ancestral home accorded historical background to the characters we would learn more of later. At the same time, it allowed us context as to why her mother-in-law was so furious and insistent she stopped spending time with HSH on their research. 

Thank you very much for sharing the various studies on K-dramas and their viewers - very compelling read indeed. I had a very quick glance through "Strong Women in the Eyes of Filipinas: A Reception Study of Korean TV Dramas", which I intend to read through properly soon, but I found this statement particularly interesting:

"In the context of an Asian viewership, Filipina women‟s identification with strong women differs from other Asian women in terms of the near-absence of consumeristic notions of empowerment, the lack of conflicting sense of self in terms of Confucian expectations of women and the demands of the modern workplace."

Considering what we know will transpire down the road in this drama, I wonder how Saimdang's decisions and actions - particularly to do with YWS and his concubine, would sit with viewers in the Philippines. Please do share their reactions when the time comes. Thank you.

[plainenglish]

@liddi

In the scene (Ep. 5 SBS version) where Min Ch-hyung and Hwieumdang are talking about preparations for the upcoming Jungbu (Yongdu?) Fellowship, MCH tells her: “Make sure there’s enough food. And consult the royal chef about the food for the king.”

GMA7’s translation (or paraphrase) omits “Make sure there’s enough food” and instead, MCH tells Hwieumdang in Filipino, “Magburda ka pa ng mga pamunas para sa iba upang maiwasan nating may mainggit.”

The word “burda” is “to embroider” while “pamunas” means the piece of cloth for wiping surfaces like in kitchens or tables (in short, a rag). So, in English, MCH tells Hwieumdang, “Embroider more rags (pieces of cloth for wiping) so as to avoid any jealousy among our guests.”

(We do know that Hwieumdang gifted the Prime Minister with her Chochungdo painting and not with a rag.)

From the dialogues (Korean or Chinese) or from the English subs of the international version, is there a basis for this seemingly outrageous translation or paraphrase?

[liddi]

@plainenglish There is additional dialogue in the international version which might explain what GMA7's translation is referring to:

HWD: 貞敬夫人喜歡上次養老宴手帕上的刺繡, 所以這次我準備了好作禮物
         The Revered Lady liked the embroidery on the napkin at the previous banquet, so I prepared it as a present.
:
MCH: 多準備一點手帕讓需要的人可以索取
         Make sure to prepare enough napkins so that we can give them to everyone who would like them
cr. iflix

Hopefully an earlier dialogue spoke of the Councillor's wife's admiration for the embroidered napkin, which would then explain why she needed to prepare more of such items as gifts.

GTV C-subs refers to the item as 揮巾, and a caption describing it as 新嫁娘在用餐洗手時使用的一種圍裙 "a kind of apron (?) used by new brides to wash their hands during meals". Am not exactly sure what this means - @gerrytan8063 can you please enlighten us on what this actually is... is it an apron or a napkin? If it is for new brides as per GTV's caption, why would it be used as a gift in a banquet?

On a separate note, my physical copy of Vol 2 arrived today, so my collection is complete! Unfortunately, as I feared, it does not include the photos of the paintings used in the drama, which is disappointing indeed. Still, am very happy to finally read from a physical book instead of peering at a mobile device  

Vol 1 and 2 side by side:

The interior cover of Vol 2:

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"GTV C-subs refers to the item as 揮巾, and a caption describing it as 新嫁娘在用餐洗手時使用的一種圍裙 "a kind of apron (?) used by new brides to wash their hands during meals". "

I will prefer if you can show me if there is a Korean caption for me to read to be more accurate....we already know regarding GTV's accuracy in their subtitles

Remember the subtitles of Yeok Rin "역린,逆鱗" which means the King's Wrath but was translated as reversed scale of dragon or something to that extent

"can you please enlighten us on what this actually is... is it an apron or a napkin? If it is for new brides as per GTV's caption, why would it be used as a gift in a banquet?" 

It is most likely an equivalent to a hand towel. It will be an embroidery piece of cloth (자수 刺繡) as a gifts giving customs & to show the sewing skills & grace of the Mistress of the Manor in their Gyubang (Boudior)  - Joseon Dynasty version of a Door Gift

I do know that in Joseon Dynasty, the ladies of the household will embroidery handkerchief for funerals for the guests to wipe their tears. So if it napkins, it will be more likely not to be taken away but admire

 

Until now, Korean shop & restaurant do give customers hand towel as gift for their opening & anniversary

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

Just come to mind, Korean will have embroidery wrapping cloth known as bojagi (보자기)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojagi

It is best if there is a Korean caption for reference

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Unfortunately I cannot find any Korean captions in the international or SBS versions.

This is the excerpt from Ep5 international version where the dialogue took place, Hwieumdang's line is around the 45sec mark, while MCH's instructions are at the 1min 20sec mark. Hope that helps in the absence of captions. Tried to listen but couldn't hear "bojagi" or "subo" being mentioned anywhere...

Snuck a peek at the Malay iflix subs - it is referred to as "sulaman pada kain lap", which sounds like a cloth to wipe the table with 

I even looked up Chapter 9 of the novel, but it omitted any description of the delicacies and gifts that Hwieumdang prepared for the banquet. It only mentioned her preparation of milk porridge for MCH before the banquet since he had a sensitive stomach (not the Second State Councillor as referred to in the drama).

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

Thank you for the clip

What is mentioned Seobinggo (서빙고,西冰庫 West Ice Storage) during the Joseon Dynasty is where ice is store & under the Bureau of Ice Management (빙고전,氷庫典). What is left of Seobinggo is just the name a neighbourhood district in Seoul

A sample of an Ice Storage in Gyeongju.

It seems that the Prime Minister's wife at the annual Banquet for the Elderly (Yang Ro Yeon 양로연. 養老宴) carrying Hwieumdang's embroidery Hui Geon. The word is Hui/Hee Geon (희건,絺巾, linen or hemp towel/cloth).  I am guessing that it is just an embroidery towel 

https://baike.baidu.com/item/絺巾

https://tw.ichacha.net/hy/絺巾.html

http://cd.hwxnet.com/view/hohcelhmajionmli.html

some meaning to the word "絺" -  细葛布; 细葛布做的衣服;  古邑名，中国春秋时的周地，故址在今河南省沁阳县西南;  刺绣; 喻修饰文词 & 姓

絺巾 means 細葛布巾 or 刺绣巾

"新嫁娘在用餐洗手時使用的一種圍裙"

As for this subtitle, I will think instead 圍裙, it should be 圍巾

According to this site 

https://read01.com/J5Ma4J.html#.WZbkfygjGUk

Look at the attendant with a towel over his shoulder

"這是說，洗澡的時候，坐在浴盆里擦身，要用兩塊巾，一塊細葛巾，擦上身。另一塊粗葛布，擦下身。擦乾淨後，出浴盆，踩在用蒯草的莖編織的席上。蒯席上，披上一塊布帛或衣衫。等到身上幹了，才穿好衣服，穿上鞋。於是，喝著備好的酒......

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Yes - I did think 圍巾 seemed more appropriate than 圍裙. Imagine Hwieumdang providing aprons for the guests at the banquet... unless lobsters were on the menu and the embroidered aprons served as glorified lobster bibs!  

I wonder though... how they could bear to use beautifully embroidered napkins/towels during meals. Would these also constitute as gifts for guests during that time, so the items were more decorative than practical?

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

We have doubts with GTV subtitles remember "Dianthus Chinenses (Pae Raeng-i,패랭이) translated in GTV Taiwan "草帽花"

"how they could bear to use beautifully embroidered napkins/towels during meals. Would these also constitute as gifts for guests during that time, so the items were more decorative than practical?"

My grandmother had embroidery pillows & we have to remind ourselves to sleep on the non embroidery side or else next morning we have the imprint of the embroidery on our cheeks

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Very true re. GTV subs and its sometimes dodgey translations, though I am grateful for it since it was the first to make the international version understandable for me, not forgetting the fun I had, trying to decipher cryptic terms  Thankfully we have you to provide a sanity check, else I would still be scouring all over Google, hunting for straw hat flowers! 

Thank you for the anecdote regarding your grandmother's pillows. I am guessing that the same logic applies with the napkins... and only the un-embroidered part will be used for whatever purpose (I am still hard pressed to think of it as a cloth for wiping tables )

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"I am guessing that the same logic applies with the napkins... and only the un-embroidered part will be used for whatever purpose (I am still hard pressed to think of it as a cloth for wiping tables )"

How about a table runners?...but I doubt table runners exist during the Joseon Dynasty, they don't have long tables

My paternal grandaunts -  Strait Chinese (Peranakan) use to carry embroidery "saputangan". It was quite large that they flip it over their shoulders or hold on their hands & waves for attention