[Drama 2017] Saimdang, Light's Diary 사임당, 빛의 일기

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

First & Foremost...thank you...great reading

"(Her only known landscape painting 《梨谷山水屏》"Pear Valley Landscape folding screen", is currently being kept in the National Museum of Korea)"

It seems that it is a typo error. Here the romanisation 梨谷山水屏 (li gu shan sui ping) while  二曲山水屛 (er qu shan sui ping)

I only found this landscape painting from Saimdang known as "이곡산수병(二曲山水屛). The poem is written by Maeng Ho Yeon (맹호연,孟浩然 - 詩)

As for " 凉床"...Most common Korean houses have this low wooden platform, look like a size of a bed known as Pyeong Sang (평상) where they eat meals on Summer months when the house is too hot to have meals

or a nicer version of Pyeong Sang cum bed (평상침대)

 

"I thought there was a Romanised name for Ming gave to the Sultanate of Malacca - 满刺加, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Was I imagining things, or is there really another name apart from the Pinyin version Manchijia?"

https://baike.baidu.com/item/满剌加/5926531?fromtitle=满刺加&fromid=2491243

"This was the 魯密銃 (a firearm invented by Ming)"

This is Ming Dynasty Matchlock gun

http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com/2014/11/matchlock-of-ming-dynasty.html

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Thank you so much for clearing up the air for everything that left me stumped, enabling me to make the post more comprehensive - you are truly a life saver! To think that 梨谷山水屛 was a mistranslation of 二曲山水屛! It is extremely gratifying that there is such a painting after all... and I was only misled by the deafening lack of search combinations for Shin Saimdang and Pear Valley  Tried looking up the exhibitions in the National Museum of Korea webpage in hopes of finding the formal translation of its name to replace my awkward one, but could not find it - perhaps it is featured among their permanent exhibits? I am curious about one thing though... Shin Saimdang's 二曲山水屛 featured the poetry of Maeng Ho Yeon. Was this a common practice, seeing that Shin Saimdang herself was well-versed in both painting and calligraphy?

I have updated my post with pyeong sang... so there is no one word that represented this particular platform in the English language. No matter... I am just glad that I now know the name with which it is called. Likewise with 魯密銃 - thank you! I was amused when I read Jungjong's grouse about the length of time taken to reload a gun, since I thought exactly the same way each time I watched reenactments of wars using firearms during similar eras  

I still have no idea what the Romanised name of 满刺加 is... if there is one, and the Baidu article does not shed light on it either. Perhaps I was mistaken and my old Sejarah books merely referred to it as Melaka as named by Parameswara. Either way it's fine. At least we now have confirmation that the 色目人 Gyeom referred to are the Portuguese in Malacca  

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"Shin Saimdang's 二曲山水屛 featured the poetry of Maeng Ho Yeon. Was this a common practice, seeing that Shin Saimdang herself was well-versed in both painting and calligraphy?"

Shin Saimdang quote the poem verses from Maeng Ho Yeon in her landscape painting. The calligraphy on the painting is hers. I suppose it will be common to quote famous verses from famous poem

As for 满刺加, it is the referral name for the Ming Chinese for Malacca Sultanate (满刺加国). The Ming Envoy might written the name 满刺加 for Malacca from auditory reference or perhaps from his own dialect hence the name. Malacca was name after the "Pokok Melaka" (or commonly known as the Indian Gooseberry, Phyllanthus emblica)

Some reading

https://www.jstor.org/stable/41493322?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-Ming-Dynasty-transcribe-Malacca-as-满剌加-not-with-initial-马-or-麻

 

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Ah thank you for clarifying the confusion as to why Shin Saimdang would seem to need someone else to add a poem to her own painting. Rather, her quoting a famous poem makes perfect sense. Was 二曲山水屛 an early work of hers? Was it supposed to be stylistically similar to An Gyeon's whom she was known to emulate as a child? There is breathtaking beauty in its very simplicity, and it is a shame that this is the only landscape work of hers that survived, or at least is known.

Very interesting reading as to why Ming used 滿 instead of 馬 to vocalise Malacca. Thank you! As such, I think I need hunt no further for any other romanised version of 满刺加. By the looks of it, it is just an alternate transcript of the name it had been known with all along.

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"Very interesting reading as to why Ming used 滿 instead of 馬 to vocalise Malacca. Thank you! As such, I think I need hunt no further for any other romanised version of 满刺加. By the looks of it, it is just an alternate transcript of the name it had been known with all along."

Well we have the case scenario story, the Ming envoy comes to Malacca then asked a passerby "what is the name of this country" The passerby in a strong Musi dialect (Palembang Malay) might have gave him that transcribe. For example, they tend to end their word with "O" like Mata (eye) is Mato, Apa (what) is Apo while words like telur (egg) is teluk, besar (big) is besak then when the Ming Envoy transcribe into his diary, he will use his own dialect to conjure the word in Chinese character

Most of Shin Saimdang painting are not dated, only that she painted them during her lifetime

Maeng Ho Yeon or Meng Hao Ran poem (맹호연,孟浩然, Tang Dynasty Poet 689-740) 詩 is "宿建德江" (A Night-mooring on the Jiande River)

The verses 移舟泊煙渚，日暮客愁新；. 野曠天低樹，江清月近人.

English translation

"I steer my boat towards an isle in the misty river to moor,
As daylight draws to a close, there grows a traveller's gloom.
The wilderness is expansive and over trees the nightfall looms,
The river is clear bringing within reach a reflection of the moon."

The 2nd landscape painting of hers, (calligraphy on the left of the landscape painting) the verses is from the Tang Dynasty poet Li Bai (李白, the poet have written so many). I still can't match the verses & will do so when time permits

It seems that this landscape paintings were in Yi Wu (Saimdang youngest son) keepsake

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Come to think of it, none of Shin Saimdang's works that I can see have a stamp on it. From what I know, women in the Joseon royal family who use the Royal seal have their own stamps in accordance with their rank. What of the yangban? How were Shin Saimdang's works identified without her stamp to serve as a signature?

Thank you for sharing the actual 孟浩然 poem that Shin Saimdang transcribed on to her painting, which is so evocative and the perfect complements of each other.

I look forward to your identification of 李白's poem when you find the time to do so.

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"I look forward to your identification of 李白's poem when you find the time to do so."

Li Bai (李白 701-762) poem 送張舍人之江東. (Seeing off Zhang Han for Jiangdong -Yangtze).  Li Bai admires Zhang Han (張翰) & dedicate & praised him in 3 of his poem 

The verses on the calligraphy

天清一鴈遠，海闊孤帆遲。
白日行欲暮，滄波杳難期。
吳洲如見月，千里幸相思。

https://baike.baidu.com/item/送张舍人之江东

I don't have the time to find the English translation

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Thank you for identifying the poem!

The following is my clumsy attempt to translate the full poem (Shin Saimdang only uses the 2nd to 4th lines in her painting)... since I am having trouble finding a formal translation (it doesn't appear in 唐诗三百首 300 Tang Poems):

送张舍人之江东
Sending Zhang Han to Jiangdong

by 李白 Li Bai
 

张翰江东去，正值秋风时。
Zhang Han travels to Jiangdong, Just as the autumn wind is blowing
天清一雁远，海阔孤帆迟。
A goose flies far away in the clear sky, The lonely boat sails slowly in the wide sea
白日行欲暮，沧波杳难期。
As the day approaches twilight, the turbulent sea makes reunion difficult
吴洲如见月，千里幸相思。
If you see the moon in Wu province, send thoughts of longing across the thousand miles

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

Just look at Saimdang calligraphy on Li Bai poem she only wrote this verses

"天清一鴈遠，海闊孤帆遲。
白日行欲暮，滄波杳難期"

She wrote in 7 character 3 liners 

[plainenglish]

@gerrytan8063 @liddi

In the Dramacool website’s English subs, one of the ministers describes the fan that Lee Gyeom gave to the King as being made of “cinnabar.” Is this a correct translation from the Korean dialogues or Chinese subs?

I’m asking because in the September 1 broadcast, GMA7 translated “cinnabar” as “perlas” (Filipino word for “pearl”).

@liddi

I posted on Twitter links to your English translations of the “Saimdang” novel. You started with Chapter 3, right?

Do you have any plan to place all your translations into one PDF for easy reading?

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Thank you for pointing out that it was only the 2nd and 3rd line that was added to the painting. Is it common practice to write the poem in 3 lines, rather than how it was originally broken up? 

@plainenglish The fan that Gyeom gave Jungjong was decorated with mother-of-pearl and red lacquerware (硃砂 cinnabar was added to give the red colour). iflix C-subs translate it as 珍珠母扇 (mother-of-pearl fan) to which 硃砂 cinnabar was also added. @gerrytan8063 explains the process in more detail here:

Thank you for the twitter exposure to my clumsy translations of the novel. I actually started with the prologue, followed by an amalgamation of Chapters 1-3, which was more a summary of what was different from the drama. I only gradually went into more detail in later chapters as I could not bring myself to not try and translate as best as I could the beauty of the descriptions she wrote. 

I might put the translations into one document at a later date... perhaps after finishing the novel and revisiting Chapters 1-3 again. We shall see. The progress is slow... at my current rate of roughly a chapter a week, it will probably be 1.5 months from now before it is completed.

[plainenglish]

Note on the September 7 GMA7 broadcast:

GMA7 has translated "drifters" as "maralitang palaboy" in previous episodes where "maralita" in English is "poor" and "palaboy" is "drifter" (or "drifters"). GMA7's translation is accurate and quite poetic. But in the September 1 broadcast, Lee Gyeom used for "drifters" the Filipino word "lagalag" (which is also an accurate translation but with a more negative connotation).

1 hour ago, liddi said:

The fan that Gyeom gave Jungjong was decorated with mother-of-pearl and red lacquerware (硃砂 cinnabar was added to give the red colour). iflix C-subs translate it as 珍珠母扇 (mother-of-pearl fan) to which 硃砂 cinnabar was also added.

I re-watched that scene, and I got the GMA7 translation wrong.

GMA7 in the September 1 broadcast translates cinnabar as "hiyas na mas mahalaga kesa ginto." "Hiyas" in English is "gem" or "precious stone" while "ginto" is "gold." But cinnabar as gem wasn't used for the fan, right? It was cinnabar's dye (?) or pigment (?) that was used, right? GMA7's translation doesn't make this clear.

GMA7 did use "perlas" for "mother-of-pearl."

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"Thank you for pointing out that it was only the 2nd and 3rd line that was added to the painting. Is it common practice to write the poem in 3 lines, rather than how it was originally broken up? "

Both of landscape paintings with Meng Hao Ran & Li Bai poem was just 20 characters written in 7 character 3 liners due to spacing. To have writing in the original 5 characters in 4 lines would have require space

[liddi]

@plainenglish Yes, cinnabar was used as a pigment for the lacquer.

The following is the text from the C-translated novel regarding the fan, starting with its description from the narrative:

那是一把上了朱漆的螺鈿扇，用的是混合了比黃金還要寶貴的鏡面朱砂（一種使用紅色色澤的礦石所製成的朱砂，傳説擁有特殊的能量，常用於符咒上） 
It was a mother-of-pearl fan coated with red lacquer that was mixed with cinnabar, which was more precious than gold (a kind of red pigment derived from cinnabar ore. Legend has it that it held special powers, and was often used on amulets)

followed by Gyeom's explanation of the details:

"扇綠用的是有龍紋樣的螺鈿，中心則嵌有玉製的龍牌，這是以朝鮮為中心，是所有百姓的根源，也是陛下的象徵。"
"The green colour of the fan comes from mother-of-pearl with the pattern of a dragon, while its centre is embedded with a jade dragon pendant, representing the heart of Joseon, the root of all the people, and the symbol of Your Majesty."

@gerrytan8063 I guess my real question was whether writing it in 3 lines of 7 characters detracted from reading it in its original form. My understanding of the classics is extremely shallow, so I might have problems with it, since I usually take the lines as a break from one statement to the next. Still... I am definitely in no position to judge and certainly would not presume to second guess the literary talents who have written it in this way 

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

"I guess my real question was whether writing it in 3 lines of 7 characters detracted from reading it in its original form. My understanding of the classics is extremely shallow, so I might have problems with it, since I usually take the lines as a break from one statement to the next. Still... I am definitely in no position to judge and certainly would not presume to second guess the literary talents who have written it in this way"

Technically when reading verses from poem, you tend to know where the punctuation marks is by just reading the prose or stanza; whether the poems was originally written in 3 - 8 characters a line

Some reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese_poetry_forms

[gerrytan8063]

@plainenglish @liddi

The fan that Yi Gyeom gave with Pungaksan painting to Jungjong the rib/frame is made from Ju Chil Na Seon Jeon (주칠나전선 ,朱漆螺鈿, red lacquerware) is Mother of Pearl lacquerware which is a style & technique of lacquer & woodwork that uses inlay of shell or ivory as decoration. The shells usually mother of pearl or abalone while the lacquer had added Gyeong Min Ju Sa (경민주사, 鏡面朱沙, Cinnabar) which gives it the red colour, the best love red pigment since antiquity. It seems to be more precious than gold. 

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

Just did some back reading 

The novel transcribe Saimdang landscape painting as "梨谷山水屏" (li gu shan sui ping) was actually trying to transcribe the Korean (hangeul) of "이곡산수병( Yi Guk San Su Byeong 二曲山水屛). 

 

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 I see... so the C-translation of the name of her landscape painting was probably based on auditory reference.

It is good that they ended up with 梨谷 Pear Valley, which still sounded more plausible than what Google translate regurgitated:

이곡산수병
一個分裂的小屋  A divided small house

or the equally mind-boggling:

이  此      This
곡  歌曲   song
산  山      mountain
수  數      count
병  病      illness

  

[gerrytan8063]

@liddi

If Mr. Google Translate is proficient, then there will not be people begging for other people to translate, especially in this Soompi forum threads e.g. dialogues, previews, text preview, news articles

All the language schools can "closed shop" (關門大吉)

[liddi]

@gerrytan8063 Definitely grateful for all the kind contributors on the thread, including translators and subbers, without whom my kdrama watching experience would not have been so enriching. And while not quite as proficient, Mr Google Translate is a godsend too in times of desperation, even if it is often accompanied by mental gymnastics