[Drama 2012] Bridal Mask 각시탈

[Guest sunshine4ever]

I just finished watching episode 19 on Viki! I just wanted to write down some thoughts about it. I'm so overwhelmed by episode 19! In one episode there were at least 4 people who died for the cause: the lady from circus, the other person who pretended to be BM, Jeok Pa, and Chief Konno. It's so cloudy, and I just saw a flip into darkness. Now darkness is taking over. I cannot believe the Koshoki even threatened government officials and took over the government. So corrupted.

This scene was totally awesome. I like BM's tools/weapons. Good thing he didn't use the flute anymore because that would be useless as he's against so many with guns. So my theory was kind of correct. BM only used sword to cut banners/flag which he did when he was at the execution stage. Additionally, I'm glad that BM doesn't use a gun otherwise we'd miss all the fun with fighting. I like his fights.

The scene with SJ torturing Jeok Pa (lady) was heart-wrenching for me. Poor Jeok Pa. Her words before she died touched me deeply. I just felt like she's like a mother shielding/protecting BM. Her last words will definitely inspired KT to continue and endure all pain necessary for the restoration of the Korean people. I couldn't help but have tears in my eyes for this brave lady.

I like how episode 19 was moving especially with KT & Rie's relationship even though he is using her (but it seems so real...they have some striking chemistry together). With KT and MD apart that is something we can't do because right now there is no way MD will be free from SJ's wrath. At least at the moment, KT & MD can't do much except to just hold hands while MD visited SJ. KT is totally an expert at pretending. I swear, KT should just switch to being actor instead of being a police officer. Haha. Just look at how he's trying to persuade Rie. If only his feelings for her were true it would have been so different. Just when I was thinking of maybe we can outstretch/extend our MD & KT romances. They proceeded with KT & Rie. I guess I am coming to a reality that this drama is an action/historical oriented drama and not a romance type, so we can just ignore romance for now as expecting them will just bog us down. I totally could not believe episode 19 was just sooooooooooo good even without the romance.

[Guest serendipity8989]

@stoffkimba Let me just preface this by saying how disgusted I am at how ignorant you are, and how you subtly TWIST my words and my stance on this subject. It's quite uncalled for, and I'm beginning to wonder if English is your native language? B/c you seem to be misinterpreting what I'm writing.
1. you say you didn't cite wikipedia? I say, what are you talking about?? this is a direct copy & paste from your previous post.
" a. The apology. I was going to find some examples on the internet, but actually I found, somebody else has already done all the work:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women " (THAT'S THE LINK YOU PROVIDED. You did cite wikipedia.)
-----

*Also, you're trying to justify using wikipedia by stating that journal articles and books are biased. But that's ridiculous. There's a standard of what can be taken as a credible source, and what cannot. So by you trying to discredit EVERY OTHER BOOK written by saying it's BIASED and INACCURATE, doesn't make it okay for you to cite wikipedia, nor does it make wikipedia a reliable source. Mkay?
You're just full of contradictions. You cite wikipedia, then you say wikipedia isn't a reliable source.... then you say ALL BOOKS CANNOT be taken as fact. That just seems strange. I specifically mentioned that when you read a history book or any other book, you have to take into consideration the context of the author's social/political/economic affiliation. HOWEVER, I noted that CERTAIN EVIDENCE that is provided CAN BE TAKEN AS FACT. SUCH AS, THE JAPANESE COLONIZATION OF KOREA = FACT. Not biased, not lies, not based on anything other than FACT. 
2. As for YOU not approving of Shunji's "demonization" -- PLEASE, GET OVER it. Like I mentioned previously, this is a FICTIONAL DRAMA BASED ON A COMIC. This drama is not MEANT to APPEAL to Japanese viewers. Its' meant to be entertaining firstly, and it's meant for the general KOREAN PUBLIC/audience. So quite frankly, I don't care if Shunji is regarded as evil. IF you're taking it as SJ is being portrayed as evil b/c he's "Japanese" then you need to get over yourself, because it's just a part of a narrative. You need a bad guy v. good guy. It's good storytelling, when someone who was once "good" turns "bad" & it's also within the context of the 1930s, NOT CURRENT DAY. So there's no need to get your panties up in a bunch, because this DRAMA portrays Japanese negatively (WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE IT DOES).
Who said that Korean dramas or movies that are narrative fiction have to be 100% factual or accurate? That has never been the case. There's always going to be an exaggeration on one part or the other, in order for their specific narrative to work. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong w/ demonizing the "enemy" which in this case were the Japanese, if it's relevant to the narrative. 
I mean, it's about colonial Korea, WTF do you expect? Cotton candy & flowers? Japanese men and Korean men running around the field together sharing laughter and drinks? PLEASE, that's definitely not going to work because firstly, that never happened, and secondly, that's not the point this drama is trying to make...
3. You're saying I need to study Asian history? I think YOU'RE the one that's attacking ME. I know my history PRETTY well, and I don't need you to tell me what to study and what not. From what I know, there's nothing wrong or inaccurate about my statements. THERE'S NO REASON FOR YOU TO HAVE BROUGHT UP OTHER IMPERIALIST COUNTRIES COMMITTING ATROCITIES ON WOMEN IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO LESSEN THE IMPACT JAPAN HAD ON KOREA/CHINA (&OTHER SOUTHEAST ASIAN COUNTRIES). 
We were SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT KOREA & JAPAN. SO WHY ARE YOU BRINGING UP OTHER COUNTRIES COMMITTING WAR CRIMES AND ATROCITIES? IT'S ALMOST AS IF YOU'RE SAYING "WHAT JAPAN DID WASN'T SO BAD, B/C EVERYONE ELSE DID IT" & what I was trying to say: is that THAT'S WRONG. I'm saying I don't CARE RIGHT NOW about what the other countries did. I'm focusing on Japan & Korea. I'm saying what Japan did to Korea is a historic fact and it's wrong. THE END. & If the Koreans want to make a film or documentary about their own national history, they can. & they can also demonize whoever they want. If you don't like that, then don't watch it, okay?

[Guest serendipity8989]

stoffkimba

said: @RoxyYEH: I agree: to have everybody just die at the end without any hope - after showing all this - would be just too depressing! This show is so incredibly dark, though, that I'm getting more and more fearful. We are still not in the worst years (the war), so if they ended that show before then, how could it be a happy ending? Even if they survived ... *shakes head in denial*

Maybe they'll have KT die, but MD carry his child? To give us some kind of hope? (Not that I want that, but ... *cries*)

@serendipity8989

said:

2. The scenes in which the women were being taken in as comfort women were very watered down. =( I wanted to see more realism. It made Koreans seem all too "ignorant" in what was going on in their own country, ruled by the Japanese. Would they really have thought that they were recruiting NURSES & paying them so much for doing such work? Even MD was like "wth that doesn't make sense.." I'm sure the Korean women knew what the hell was happening. & in reality, these women knew what were happening, because they were kidnapped. Some had to go voluntarily, or else they would have starved to death/beaten/raped - so I don't know if I'd call that "volunteering" b/c it's more like coercion. Nevertheless, I was a bit disappointed in those scenes.

[burningwithlove]

coolreborn said: Anyway... where is Katsuyama while the fighting is happening? Don't tell he will just let this pass? Or is he so devoted to Rei he will do whatever she wants and not tell the Kishokai big boss. ( Or will Rei take Bridal Mask as prisoner, yay! evil-pervy thoughts arises. lol. )

[Guest hayablue77]

stoffkimba

said:

1. Wikipedia:

I did not use Wiki as a source, but as a quick hint to give to mrdimples. Again: what else am I to do? Scan a bookpage (apart from that being illegal, anyway)? This also goes @hayablue77 (I've read all you said, hon, I'm just not quoting it! thanks for replying!). *hm* To both of you: Apart from that we totally agree on Wiki (a lot of the things you said is just saying exactly what I said in different words. o_ô But then again, maybe it's a language problem.)

But with regards to your statement that "on university level there are books you can just take as fact". No. Just NO NO NO NO NEVER! Maybe in your first semester, or as and undergrad, or something. But a serious scholar will always take everything with a grain of salt (and that is recommended for students as well - that's the most important lesson you learn in uni, I believe). That's the whole point of quoting in academic texts: you are not saying that something is a fact - you are just saying: "Well, this and that scholar said so, and I'm just going to kind of trust this person on this matter. Of course, if what he/she said is wrong, I'd change my opinion." That is why in the academia "truth" is always up to change at a moments notice. In historic studies, it's the finding of new sources (maybe a document, a ruin, anything) that easily overthrows everything that's come before.

That was the point I was trying to make when I talked about books on Emperor Hirohito. Obviously, these are "university level" books I was talking about. o_ô

And just to make that point clear: I am well past the point where I am "just" consuming "university level" writing, but producing it. And yeah, just to reaffirm that we are actually not disagreeing about those things at all(!): I would tell my students not to use Wikipedia as a source in academic writing! Obviously! (But, Wiki often has a list of sources, which can give you a hint, maybe a literary recommendation.) Soompi isn't an academic essay, though. o_ô

[Guest flipz]

Oh, Konno's death is also an interesting subject. I knew he was going to die, but I just didn't know when. Without a shadow of a doubt in my mind, he would have arrested KT if he knew that he was Gaksital.

His character isn't pro Japanese nor pro Korean, his faith was entrusted with the law. Old KT was like his protege, and both wanted to get rid of what's perceived as the corrupt and evil (Kimura Taro and Bridal Mask) in accordance to the law. When KT realized that it is really hard to play by the rules, he became a heroic renegade to the Japanese.

It was actually nice to see an interesting character such as Konno and compare his morals and beliefs to KT or the Japanese. He's a blend of KT, yet he is blinded by a sense of justice that is tainted by the corrupt orders of a more powerful (corrupt) order. I wanted him to at least find out before he died, just to see the shock and disbelief.


I also felt ripped off with them not showing the scene where DSR actually finds out about KT. Seriously?

[Guest Starlitelet]

nenechanchan

said:

I wonder how someone could continue watching this show when all they do is nitpick at the characters. 

It's a known fact that MD's character is quite one dimensional and underdeveloped compared to other characters, HOWEVER, she has been this way from the beginning, so why complain about it NOW? just because Rie has come into the picture?I feel that all these criticisms toward MD (and the actress playing her) are starting to surface only because of the recent episodes, where she hasn't had much to do. Although we are exploring Rie's side of the story at the moment, where she is indeed quite interesting to watch, we shouldn't compare her to MD because they are two very different people - they're made to be different...there's a reason why KT loves MD and not Rie, you know...Remember how cool MD was when she willingly walked into the nail cage? how she tried to fought back against the people taking her friends to become comfort women? how she continues to protect KT despite constantly getting harassed/violated by Shunji?

Just because she's in the episodes for 4 minutes doesn't mean that she has no role or she's unnecessary or she contributes nothing to the story.

Please cut MD some slack. no show is flawless. the reason we get awesomely layered and developed characters like KT and Shunji and Rie IS because some others (like MD) have to give up their own screen time for the show to focus more on the important people.

[Guest stoffkimba]

@hayablue77 said:

stoffkimba

said:

1. Wikipedia:

I did not use Wiki as a source, but as a quick hint to give to mrdimples. Again: what else am I to do? Scan a bookpage (apart from that being illegal, anyway)? This also goes @hayablue77 (I've read all you said, hon, I'm just not quoting it! thanks for replying!). *hm* To both of you: Apart from that we totally agree on Wiki (a lot of the things you said is just saying exactly what I said in different words. o_ô But then again, maybe it's a language problem.)

But with regards to your statement that "on university level there are books you can just take as fact". No. Just NO NO NO NO NEVER! Maybe in your first semester, or as and undergrad, or something. But a serious scholar will always take everything with a grain of salt (and that is recommended for students as well - that's the most important lesson you learn in uni, I believe). That's the whole point of quoting in academic texts: you are not saying that something is a fact - you are just saying: "Well, this and that scholar said so, and I'm just going to kind of trust this person on this matter. Of course, if what he/she said is wrong, I'd change my opinion." That is why in the academia "truth" is always up to change at a moments notice. In historic studies, it's the finding of new sources (maybe a document, a ruin, anything) that easily overthrows everything that's come before.

That was the point I was trying to make when I talked about books on Emperor Hirohito. Obviously, these are "university level" books I was talking about. o_ô

And just to make that point clear: I am well past the point where I am "just" consuming "university level" writing, but producing it. And yeah, just to reaffirm that we are actually not disagreeing about those things at all(!): I would tell my students not to use Wikipedia as a source in academic writing! Obviously! (But, Wiki often has a list of sources, which can give you a hint, maybe a literary recommendation.) Soompi isn't an academic essay, though. o_ô

[Guest hayablue77]

stoffkimba

said:

@hayablue77

said:

stoffkimba

said:

1. Wikipedia:

I did not use Wiki as a source, but as a quick hint to give to mrdimples. Again: what else am I to do? Scan a bookpage (apart from that being illegal, anyway)? This also goes @hayablue77 (I've read all you said, hon, I'm just not quoting it! thanks for replying!). *hm* To both of you: Apart from that we totally agree on Wiki (a lot of the things you said is just saying exactly what I said in different words. o_ô But then again, maybe it's a language problem.)

But with regards to your statement that "on university level there are books you can just take as fact". No. Just NO NO NO NO NEVER! Maybe in your first semester, or as and undergrad, or something. But a serious scholar will always take everything with a grain of salt (and that is recommended for students as well - that's the most important lesson you learn in uni, I believe). That's the whole point of quoting in academic texts: you are not saying that something is a fact - you are just saying: "Well, this and that scholar said so, and I'm just going to kind of trust this person on this matter. Of course, if what he/she said is wrong, I'd change my opinion." That is why in the academia "truth" is always up to change at a moments notice. In historic studies, it's the finding of new sources (maybe a document, a ruin, anything) that easily overthrows everything that's come before.

That was the point I was trying to make when I talked about books on Emperor Hirohito. Obviously, these are "university level" books I was talking about. o_ô

And just to make that point clear: I am well past the point where I am "just" consuming "university level" writing, but producing it. And yeah, just to reaffirm that we are actually not disagreeing about those things at all(!): I would tell my students not to use Wikipedia as a source in academic writing! Obviously! (But, Wiki often has a list of sources, which can give you a hint, maybe a literary recommendation.) Soompi isn't an academic essay, though. o_ô

[Guest stoffkimba]

serendipity8989 said: @stoffkimba Let me just preface this by saying how disgusted I am at how ignorant you are, and how you subtly TWIST my words and my stance on this subject. It's quite uncalled for, and I'm beginning to wonder if English is your native language? B/c you seem to be misinterpreting what I'm writing.

[lots of writing in read, bold face etc]

ARE YOU CRAZY? If you don't know by now... I'm NOT PRO IMPERIAL JAPAN. SO WTF?

[Louise30]

BM-ers, wanna share this latest "Best Couple"  polling result, which netizens can vote every day through various Korean Portals and they have the result from daily, monthly, yearly. This one is the newest, featuring daily result (the top one) and monthly result for 2012 August (below).

n.b.: I got the pic from "Big" thread since I'm a fan of that show's OTP, so the pic has yellow mark for Gong Yoo-Lee Min Jung (so that you guys won't be confused LOL). Our lovely pair Joo Won x Jin Se Yeon is at #5 be it for daily or monthly. It's high considering the poll is for all-time drama couples, not just the still airing ones. So BM is one of newest show there. :x  Heard that JW-JSY's ranks always consistently high.
It's nice to know they're really popular in Korea like the news always says.





The translation:

Daily Rank: 1. Big (Lee Min Jung-Gong Yoo)
                  2. ??? (can't read it)
                  3. The Moon Embraces The Sun (Han Ga In-Kim Soo Hyun)
                  4. My GF is Gumiho (Shin Min Ah-Lee Seung Gi)
                  5. Bridal Mask (Joo Won-Jin Se Yeon)
                  6. Gentleman's Dignity (Jang Dong Gun-Kim Ha Neul)
                  7. Secret Garden (Ha Ji Won-Hyun Bin)
                 etc


Monthly Rank:  1. The Moon Embraces The Sun (Han Ga In-Kim Soo Hyun)
                       2. Big (Lee Min Jung-Gong Yoo)
                       3. My GF is Gumiho (Shin Min Ah-Lee Seung Gi)
                       4. Gentleman's Dignity (Jang Dong Gun-Kim Ha Neul)
                       5. Bridal Mask (Joo Won-Jin Se Yeon)
                       6. Secret Garden (Ha Ji Won-Hyun Bin)
                       7. ???
                      etc


Credit: Big Soompi thread

[Guest serendipity8989]

@stoffkimba

If you're seriously *crying* over an internet post, I think you clearly have some issues. 
I really dislike it when people play the *victim* card. You're acting like I'm some kind of bully, who unjustly called you out for no reason, when that is in fact not true. You're the one that was attacking my opinion/statements, and twisting my words. I was trying to defend my comments/posts. At the same time, I was calling you out for calling me out with no justification. 
I used different fonts and bold to make my points clear, not to "yell" at you. Maybe you should take your own advice and take what people say with a grain of salt? 
I can't believe how you're turning this around, and framing me as some unreasonable monster.... Like...what?! 
Totally weird.

But perhaps I would cry too, if I got caught up in my own contradictions.
It's okay though, tomorrow's another day, mKay?  

EDIT*
I thought you were a graduate student, but *erm* OK, sorry if what I said was "too harsh"

[Guest whitero]

I think the general gist of the whole Mok Dan /Rie war is that Mok Dan has had an easier and straight forward road than Kang To and Rie have. Her Dad is a freedom fighter, he has always been fighting the japanese. To her it is morally clear that japanese are the evil in her world. It has not been so easy for Rie and Kang To. They have both been affected by the dark sides of war meaning some bad things happened to them from the Korean and japanese side. They both have had more interactions with japanese citizens than Mok Dan has. She only knew Shinji as far as we know per the show. 
While I do not see Mok Dan as being evil I wonder about a couple of things. While she is a christian would she be a christian to a japanese citizen who was not in the Army or police. For example if some Korean thugs were beating up a japanese civilian would she jump in? Second I am still not sure about her truly loving him. Rie is not stupid, you tell in the show that she knows he is till in love with Mok Dan but she choses to help Kang to anyway get into the organization. I suspect before the show ends Rie is definitely a goner

[Guest hayablue77]

 

@stoffkimba & @serendipity8989

What about we all take some breaks now? Just for a while?

Please? I am sure we all feel better after the break.

 *hug and Kiss*

[Guest Jessi15]

I have so much to say and so little time to say it as I need to go out for a while ... I will be back when I have gathered my thoughts but all I am saying  now please ... please... everyone please be calm. It is only a drama after all.

"waves" to everyone

[marie67]

I think everybody who hates Mokdan/dislike her will shut up if the producers show(-ed) us a flashback of her mother being tortured and her witnessing it. Its those flashbacks that make it more layered. We just heard her talking about why she hates the Japanese guys so much, and she said the ones who wears that Uniform, so its not all Japanese cuz she was friends with Shunji before he went to the dark side.

Sorry for my language but its getting so annoying to read everywhere so much hateful comments about Mokdan. Its disrupting the show.

[Guest texashot]

@hayablue77, I agreed with you. We would like everyone enjoy reading each other comments and support for Bridal Mask.

Have a wonderful weekend!

[Guest flipz]

  I think everybody who hates Mokdan/dislike her will shut up if the producers show(-ed) us a flashback of her mother being tortured and her witnessing it. Its those flashbacks that make it more layered. We just heard her talking about why she hates the Japanese guys so much, and she said the ones who wears that Uniform, so its not all Japanese cuz she was friends with Shunji before he went to the dark side.

Sorry for my language but its getting so annoying to read everywhere so much hateful comments about Mokdan. Its disrupting the show.

[soomp]

@stoffkimba, @serendipity8989
There have clearly been some serious misunderstandings due to language - both in terms of how things have been communicated and how things have been read, as well as legitimate disagreements, but things have escalated too far. Please remember that personal attacks are against our rules here at Soompi.
It's clear that you are both intelligent and thoughtful women that contribute greatly to this thread, and it's a real shame that things took a wrong turn. I won't ask you to pretend things never happened, but both of you need to figure out a way to leave this behind and move forward. I'm sorry to oversimplify things, but for the sake of your fellow fans in this thread, it needs to end. Thanks in advance for your cooperation <3
*awkwaaaard*

something to lighten the mood (from BridalMaskKBS Facebook):

[Guest nheriz]

BM has touched a sensitive topic--comfort women and it was like people got so hyped up.  I have read articles about this when I was in school coz my country also suffered the same thing and even up to this date they ask to be compensated for that and it has become very political.

I too feel bad for what has happened to these women but late last year I saw a movie about a comfort woman. This movie gave me a wider understanding of what it was. She volunteered to be comfort woman and she fell in love. In the end of the movie she said she wanted to comfort as many men as she can because she knows those men are really good but since its war they have turned evil killing every people on their path. As the soldiers try to do what they were asked for their country and most of the soldiers are very young this is her way of serving her country. In the movie I've learned why they had to get comfort women to serve the japanese soldiers--it is their way of taking out some sort of pain from war: the trauma of killing and the fear of being killed. Sex at that time is like a way to wash away certain things within their soul and it gives them comfort.  I think the reason why the word comfort women became so bad is because it was forced on most women.  I recall the Japanese officers in BM said that they had volunteers but they feared the disease and i guess some of them have it and they needed more women so they needed to recruit women.  Nobody likes to do that job so they had to deceive people into it. Its not only the Japanese officers who are the bad people here but also some of the greedy high ranking Joseon people.

BM might've touched the sensitive issue of comfort women not for us to dwell in the past but to make women be more aware and be wiser.  Also, BM tries to tell the world that each country wants to be free and war only makes people suffer when they placed the recruitment of comfort women.

Lets just all enjoy BM.  I hope there will be more lovely scenes like Kangto holding Mokdan's hand.  That was  so beautiful.  You'll feel the love there even when there's no kissing...:-)