[Drama 2019] Doctor Yo-Han/Doctor John, 의사 요한

[ck1Oz]

@nrllee our drug cupboards can't be accessed by a single person... have no idea which country you're in. We had an anaesthetist commit suicide many years ago yes. But other than that impossible for a single person to get hold of those drugs. So he can order it but someone checking it off with him would have queried it.

 

I am used to Pain Unit patients and their use of extremely strong drugs. What I said about a drip regulated pain relief was the fact he could just let it flow. Since strong medication is never ever given by free flowing drip. 

 

I do agree with your point about bringing him into the hospital making people aware of euthanasia. 

 

I also do not expect reality for a Kdrama. Just that it's slightly nuts each time I see a medical Kdrama. And then know that the reality is hopefully different since dramas are never reality. Even in an American medical drama.

 

Euthanasia is a troubling thought especially in palliative care. How much is not too much? As long as they are able to breathe on their own? Since once you hit palliation and they are acutely dying you don't even monitor blood pressure or sedation. So just commenting if a palliative patient does stop breathing.... why or who investigated how much was given?  Since hospital staff have administered intravenous narcotics for pain. And this is on top of pain patches. So if the person stops breathing.... And from a known terminal cancer why was it investigated? Because he was on a trial drug?

 

Sorry guys. I will get back to the drama. I am just saying that for the drama to draw a fine line when someone is actively making somone die. And knowing that palliative care patients in severe pain then becomes unconscious and stops breathing... in a hospital setting it does not become a coroners case. At least I haven't seen it so. 

 

Just don't know if it might freak the average person out though reading my comments. Unless the guy wasn't at that stage of being or almost dying. But he had terminal anal cancer. And people can go downhill just like that. So maybe because it was a drug trial. But then you don't actually need massive amounts to stop breathing. I keep saying stop breathing as that is what kills a person. In normal cases it is people dying from heart stopping. But other cases it is the cessation of breathing itself and euthanasia usually involves breathing right? I mean there are other instances where either the heart stops or impulse to breathe stops but that's like my teaching people what causes people to die. 

 

Can you guys tell I analyze things? And yeah don't like sweeping statements at work. Be precise. There is no place for vague explanations. You either know what you're looking for or excluding otherwise go read up some more before you make a mistake. Or miss something. List what you have found and excluded. I am watching a Kdrama but in my head am thinking what the heck made the writer write this precise set of symptoms. What condition or assessment did I miss? Have I seen it before? And the freaking refractory VF. When do I call it quits?

 

Last set of these set of comments. I am going back to admiring Ji Sung again. Just happy to see him on screen. I always wonder HOW anyone gets any work done in a Korean hospital with that amount in in- hospital politics.

 

Like seriously man that has to be a real hospital right? Which hospital has a glass walled room in the first place? VIP isolation or not. It just blows my brain. I presume since you guys are following it you know which hospital it is in real life?  I know they use real hospitals in Korean Kdramas you see.

 

@nrllee just a side comment. One should be impartial and I am. I am strictly impartial when I have to be with a rapist and/or murderer. No matter how professional you are  you don't go above and beyond. Easier said than done. On the other hand... so why would a terminal anal cancer patient  who murdered make me feel more for him than lets say a mother of 2 young children with terminal cancer with mets who is also in severe pain. And the murderers, rapists scenario here is not hypothetical for me. Even a meth user going off is easier than treating a murderer.

 

I mean I am throwing away my professional license for this guy man. That was me saying that was the writer. But thinking if I was CYH why would he feel more empathy for the person? So apparently that is my question for this drama. What made a thoroughly thorough Professor throw away his career for a child murderer? Let's be blunt here Pain Unit patients do have a lot of pain and most of the time pain is not completely gone. Even with meds.

 

And a doctor who may have done multiple instances of euthanesia is scarier. To have a professional who thinks he has a right to help decide when someone is ready to die. Or is in so much suffering he needs help is scary as all heck. I am pro- euthanasia for specific reasons. Not like the teenager who chose euthanasia that died recently though. That was really troubling the court approved it.

[Heidi Seow]

OST part.3 releasing this evening. 

https://n.news.naver.com/entertain/article/144/0000625339

[abovewaIIs]

Hi guys! Just dropping by to give my take re Morphine.

 

Morphine can be given through infusion pump aka PCA (Patient Controlled Anelgesia), it's either there is continous drip at a very low dose or just pure bolus (This is can be use either post surgical or cancer patients). I'm not really sure what did they use at the drama but yes, you can actually give more dose when needed (that is what we call the Clinician Activated Bolus).

About HAM drugs, they can be accessed by any person who are authorized (Anesthesiologist, Pain Doctors, Pain Nurses).

[ck1Oz]

23 minutes ago, Abovewords said:

Hi guys! Just dropping by to give my take re Morphine.

 

Morphine can be given through infusion pump aka PCA (Patient Controlled Anelgesia), it's either there is continous drip at a very low dose or just pure bolus (This is can be use either post surgical or cancer patients). I'm not really sure what did they use at the drama but yes, you can actually give more dose when needed (that is what we call the Clinician Activated Bolus).

About HAM drugs, they can be accessed by any person who are authorized (Anesthesiologist, Pain Doctors, Pain Nurses).

I didn't mention PCA as it was too complicated to explain. Even if you increase the stat dose and decrease lock out time. Am not used to free flowing morphine infusion using manual drip control. Kind of freaks me out.

 

It's not accessing it's the fact it's a one person access. Now I actually have to check if its one person check in S Korea. I have access to HAM drugs and no I cannot get it by myself but with a swipe card. Plus we have CCTV monitoring. Plus swipe card monitoring. That's why the drama thing is just a drama thing.

 

In the drama he increased the flow rate. Enough to cause death. The things Kdrama does. I swear each time I watch a Kdrama I will actually attend a conference In SK one day. Just to tour a hospital. And ask questions. 

 

Ok back to drama scenario. That is a massive anaesthetic department. Plus a massive pain unit. Then I laugh at myself because I was caught in another Kdrama love of opposites. A pain unit doctor with CIPA. And a daughter who's name is Mi Rae. And the Fellow who makes me think of Kim Nam Gil.

 

I was off for a few hours so free to comment. Now will get out of everyone's hair. And go back to my real world. Where it's freaking cold and not as flashy as the swanky hospital with the big conference rooms. And crisply ironed white coats. Now I really want to drop by Yonsei Hosp ED next month to see what it is like. Since I am around that area. Where people just randomly rip curtains aside in Kdramas. And relatives shut out of resus rooms or watching. Or where no gloves are ever worn. See? I TOTALLY forgot about the no cloves or protective wear in Kdramas. I am so used to high risk behaviours now. Hahaha. 

 

Bye guys sorry to ruin the fun.

[nrllee]

@ck1Oz So your point is that YH sacrificed his professional license for nothing?  That somehow this patient wasn’t worth it?  That seems to be what you are driving at?  That he couldn’t possibly have made this decision in real life?  Thrown away his professional career for a murderer?  It’s not a criticism.  This is just me trying to understand where you’re coming from.

 

My point about YH was not that he felt more for this patient.  I seriously doubt he did.  I think it was just that he was called up for this case because the nurse obviously wanted the man to “live” on.  YH would’ve done the same for any patient.  That’s my point.  He would’ve made the same call regardless.  Whether this person was a killer or not did not factor into his decision process.  So losing his license over this patient is the same to YH as losing his license over a less controversial one.  He stands by his decision and he was willing to stake his professional license on it.  Because in his mind, he made the “right” call.  He can align it with his moral code and interpretation of “what it means to doctor”.  Honestly I am not arguing for or against his decision.  I guess it also boils down to whether the patient himself wanted to die.  The judgement call would be even harder to make if the patient is not coherent and YH is presuming the mother’s (?) wishes somehow echo the patient’s desire to die.  

 

As for your secondary point about whether he’s done it in the past and will likely do so in the future, well that’s what the Prosecution is arguing.  That YH is dangerous.  That his beliefs in doctoring are contrary to what doctors should be allowed to do.  Therefore he wants YH to be struck off the register altogether, with no more opportunities to make these life/death decisions.  

 

As for how “real” this KDrama is, well we all know that it isn’t totally realistic.  I know of no hospital where residents stand around waiting for cases or doctors flood into a room to watch a patient die.  Or make small talk when a patient is having difficulty breathing. Or of a CIPA patient living to an age like YH and doing as well as he is.  So yes some suspension of belief is required.  I am staying for the issues and how they will present the various sides of the argument.  And potentially to think if I were in that situation, what choice would I make?  

[ck1Oz]

@nrllee I am trying to understand. I understand the writer's logic. The writer wanted a drama where the male lead is struck off the register for euthanasia. They didn't want a obvious choice where you might argue the Korean citizens might sympathize with him. So therefore the writer made it dramatically obvious.

 

He/ she chose a murderer. Then add on the angst a murderer who killed 2 young children. Cue tears of sympathy for the poor kids.

 

Murder is not a simple matter. There are many reasons why someone murders. My personal opinion about murderers are totally different from my professional behaviour.

 

Euthanasia or doing it is never something someone would have done on impulse. I guess a pain doctor would have had time to ponder it or the issues. What I am saying is something must have tipped him over to wanting to do it. I haven't seen what's different from this patient vs ALL the other patients with cancer pain to make him do it. I am trying to find the motive.

 

I don't have a saviour mentality. If I wanted to euthanized someone which I don't, I am in the wrong country. I remember gowning up for a suspected Ebola patient/ and subsequent others and jeepers that was some preparation. It's not as if I work in the CDC where we have all the oxygen hose and negative pressure/anterooms. Plus  all those blood exposures. It's easier to try to save a child from an incoming car than do a rational decision to euthanize someone. Losing one's life is more important than losing a professional license. For whatever reason. I think the child murderer part is for dramatic purposes. What made CYH choose that guy? I don't believe I know. Is a murderer worth it? Depends on why they murdered. A child murderer? No. Do they deserve to be treated the same medically? Yes. Do they deserve pain? No. No one does. No one should wish it on anyone. Does he deserve to lose his professional license for? Apparently yes according to the writer.

 

Er... I don't actually think that much when I am watching the episodes by the way. I just go "wow, nice room, wow so many medical stuff, wow big rooms, wow blood all over and no gloves, wow first aid kid has all those needles in a prison. "  THAT sort of comments.

 

I am watching Go go squid, something 18 and Before we got married. Which shows you I watch Kdramas for relaxation. Not to ponder life's deep thoughts. Or ethical issues. I was expecting interesting cases. Which they always do on Kdramas. My current ponder is the refractory VF scene since I am about to get my renewal in a few weeks and I will have those sort of scenarios. There comes point where I run out of options. And this is with me being used to multiple shocks pre- hospital presentations scenarios. You know you never get a simple one shock case.

 

@nrllee I know my choices from long ago. Good luck with yours. 

 

And hahaha yeah, not residents. Consultants and whole freaking teams standing around. That's why I said I feel like popping by a huge Korean hospital and just stand and observe. Having said that have heard stories from overseas professionals who chose to do medicine for a few years in SK about the hospital hierarchy and culture. And shudder, Kdramas are correct.

 

 

 

 

[platinumbeauty]

4 hours ago, ck1Oz said:

Not like the teenager who chose euthanasia that died recently though. That was really troubling the court approved it.

 

Court never approved it. You should Google about that teen's death. Netherland court rejected her plea and she chose not to consume any food or drink to end her life. Many foreign media ended up wrongly reporting her death as euthanasia, which never was the case. https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/08/europe/noa-pothoven-euthanasia-debate-intl/index.html

[nrllee]

@ck1Oz I just find it strange that you would have that trend of thought. But to each his own. It had never occurred to me to wonder why the writer would pen the scenario. I just took it as is. That it was their prerogative as a writer and go from there.  It never struck me as odd.  But this is a space for anyone to speak their mind within reason so you have a right to wonder.  I will leave it at that and move on. 

[nona88]

New still's 

 

  

Source

 

Edit: as far as I understand from the article  it said that SY visted  CYH house I think to talk about  his CIPA, she has emotional scene with tearful eyes  and I think CYH trying to hide his feeling about it 

 

 Anyway  she visited  him  he can show his really feeling or act indifferent  as much as he can or choice but even if he want to push  her away after she know we know she will be in danger soon with the virus  let see him hold on there 

[Heidi Seow]

45 minutes ago, nona88 said:

New still's 

 

Source

 

Edit: as far as I understand from the article  it said that SY visted  CYH house I think to talk about  his CIPA, she has emotional scene with tearful eyes  and I think CYH trying to hide his feeling about it 

 

 Anyway  she visited  him  he can show his really feeling or act indifferent  as much as he can or choice but even if he want to push  her away after she know we know she will be in danger soon with the virus  let see him hold on there 

Hee hee, hope we can see this scene tonight!!!  But please dont hang it in the halfway for hospital scene.. seriously dont like it.. 

[sadthe1st]

Seoul Hanse Medical Centre hired YH cos of the recommendation by the former Health Minister Lee Won Gil.. in ep3.. i dun think its a personal excuse by Chief Min to use him to euthanise her husband (chairman) although everyone suspects it that way.. perhaps an option but definitely not her intention..

we as viewers can easily guess and relate that YH has CIPA cos remember the prison guard in the medical office (or was it her uncle? i forgot!) told SY that he was slashed in prison when he first came in for his sentence and he just asked for a first aid box and stitched himself up (the muscular chest ) without anaesthesia? thats already a major hint to us LOL

[nona88]

51 minutes ago, sadthe1st said:

Seoul Hanse Medical Centre hired YH cos of the recommendation by the former Health Minister Lee Won Gil.. in ep3.. i dun think its a personal excuse by Chief Min to use him to euthanise her husband (chairman) although everyone suspects it that way.. perhaps an option but definitely not her intention..

we as viewers can easily guess and relate that YH has CIPA cos remember the prison guard in the medical office (or was it her uncle? i forgot!) told SY that he was slashed in prison when he first came in for his sentence and he just asked for a first aid box and stitched himself up (the muscular chest ) without anaesthesia? thats already a major hint to us LOL

 

The man on wheelchair is the former  health minister, and he the one who helped CYH to go back to work 

Even more important  point he know the lawyer  that helped CYH three years ago and still help him till now 

Call it crazy idea , but I think he was watching over CYH from three years ago at least or maybe for longer  and he the one who send the lawyer to help him out in his court , do you  remember how it was said the lawyer  volunteer  to help CYH and from his talk with CYH  the grow close from that case so he wasn't his friend before so what sudden he volunteer  to help him 

 

Till now I dont know if the former minister  is doing good and helping CYH for his sake  or he hidden agenda  to use him from the start  

 

Chief MIN I dont think from the start she wanted  to use CYH for her husband case since she didn't think about let him go before but she not ab eady person she can think of using him now for that or to use him in many other way ( she didn't get in that position  without  being at that level  of thinking) even the her husband brother seem to fear  her she not weak enemy 

 

And the former  minister is her teacher  and she respect him a lot so whatever  he is plotting  she must be part of it .

 

 

@Heidi Seow

Dont worry I  think it in the start of this episode  

She still wearing the same clothes  from last episode  

So mostly she couldn't  even sleep in that night and go to his house in the same night  or the next morning  

 

 

 

[nona88]

 the new OST it about the feeling of the both leads CYH and SY for each other 

 

 

OST 3 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[littleloony]

About Yohan's euthanasia case--- I think both the arguments may have factored in his decision- that is, he would have taken such a decision regardless of the type of patient (murderer or not) if he thought that that is what he could do best as a doctor, and also that something must have triggered him into taking that step or rather deciding that euthanasia was the best course of action.....because we see that when he caught the old lady (mother?) messing up he immediately went to save the patient.

So even if Yohan had pondered about euthanasia for the patient, he was not prepared to act on it, atleast till the time of the old lady intervening. So the question is- what triggered him into finally taking that step? Was it the old lady's episode? Something else? (We have no information on whether he did go about using euthanasia in other cases, so I am only conjecturing, but it feels like that murderer may have been his first case of the type). We are being given pieces at a time of that incident and never in full, so I think there will be more to that incident which we will get to see later on.

 

Prosecutor Son and his agenda puzzle me the most. Just being dogmatic about a certain view of life and principles does not feel to be the only fuel for his agenda, that 'memento' ring and his intense reaction at the columbarium point to something far more personal. If he did not have a personal connection with the murderer and thus did not personally hate him, could it have been that he had a child who may died in somewhat similar circumstances and so he wanted to be able to punish this murderer as a sort of justice for his own child? ( I am just thinking). It feels like his hatred is originally for the murderer which then got misdirected to Yohan because of the euthanasia incident.

[nona88]

51 minutes ago, littleloony said:

About Yohan's euthanasia case--- I think both the arguments may have factored in his decision- that is, he would have taken such a decision regardless of the type of patient (murderer or not) if he thought that that is what he could do best as a doctor, and also that something must have triggered him into taking that step or rather deciding that euthanasia was the best course of action.....because we see that when he caught the old lady (mother?) messing up he immediately went to save the patient.

So even if Yohan had pondered about euthanasia for the patient, he was not prepared to act on it, atleast till the time of the old lady intervening. So the question is- what triggered him into finally taking that step? Was it the old lady's episode? Something else? (We have no information on whether he did go about using euthanasia in other cases, so I am only conjecturing, but it feels like that murderer may have been his first case of the type). We are being given pieces at a time of that incident and never in full, so I think there will be more to that incident which we will get to see later on.

 

Prosecutor Son and his agenda puzzle me the most. Just being dogmatic about a certain view of life and principles does not feel to be the only fuel for his agenda, that 'memento' ring and his intense reaction at the columbarium point to something far more personal. If he did not have a personal connection with the murderer and thus did not personally hate him, could it have been that he had a child who may died in somewhat similar circumstances and so he wanted to be able to punish this murderer as a sort of justice for his own child? ( I am just thinking). It feels like his hatred is originally for the murderer which then got misdirected to Yohan because of the euthanasia incident.

 

 

 

I AGREE we still don't know the full story as we saw we start seeing new part of it in ep 6 so we can be ready to the fact that there so much still not known to us 

 

the story will start talking about CYH just now , who he is ? his past ? what he really think and feel ? and what happen before and in the time of the accident , i think the second half of the drama  well be about this three CYH , nurse and prosecutor past and story and sure about CYH and SY romance 

 

for sure prosecutor has hidden agenda and personal feeling here  the prove his face when CYH said he not the one who can judge him or when he said he don't think he act like this just as prosecutor  we will know more 

 

and for all the friends here  about this issues 

 

about CYH yeh he should have saw many other in pain before this one  but as other  here said something about this case was the triggered  to him it was clear after ep 5 and 6 that CYH wasn't person who think from the start about if euthanasia  was right or not ( and as he said to SY at  ep2 most doctors don''t even think about it deeply, it not something they want to go into so he was like this too since he thought that if SY has a clear thought about euthanasia that mean she for sure had being in something like that since even he didn't have clear answer till that happen to him ) 

 

three things for sure 

1. even when CYH don't regret what he did he still don't see it as easy things and he has the right to decide it again he said how much the wight of life was on him and how he was scared and  has heavy heart even when the person was some evil guy and CYH believe he did the right things as doctor no matter who was the person is , still it was hard , scary and not something that he could do it again easy and still have pain from it in his heart - 

 

2.  CYH refuse to take that road again so  easily  he still respect life and respect his work as doctor it not crazy belief that he should get ride of any pain , he still understand the value of life no matter what 

 

3. all this sides are right ,  this drama make that clear it not white and black story , right and wrong and the drama not only just shown other sides but it  shown it in equal  logically and emotionally  ways to CYH side of view , they don't show that CYH is a hero and he right and everyone who couldn't understand his doing is evil or wrong and should accept his view , no this drama great cause it give the same right to all views to be respectable and understood by us , so like how  the drama show it logic that others doctors can't accept CYH doing cause they  become doctors to save life, cause it not acceptable that a merely human and doctor no mater how great and logic he is to have the right to decide life and death , cause it scary to have someone who belief and could in the past to do that , it scary to them to be sure if he even have the right to doctor when they can't be sure what he will be able to do next

 

 

so yeh  the drama give  this right to everyone and the life too  give the right to everyone to fear or not, to accept it or not , to understand or not so all the views should be respectable since it understood why the fear and refuse can be stronger or weaker from each person view 

 

so my friends i think this drama will keep shown that to the end , how it not easy or 100% right or wrong thing  and how it not easy to do it and when it done people have to carry heavy heart and fear all their life since taken a life was made clear as not easy or okay thing to do even when you belief it was the right thing like how CYH start to show us 

[Heidi Seow]

4 hours ago, nona88 said:

 

@Heidi Seow

Dont worry I  think it in the start of this episode  

She still wearing the same clothes  from last episode  

So mostly she couldn't  even sleep in that night and go to his house in the same night  or the next morning  

 

Hahaha, of coz @nona88 Im afraid they still stop at the moment when YH wanna wear protection uniform go into pain management place. 

 

Thanks for the OST part.3. love it!  

Edit : I saw the lyrics and translate it... Sad but beautiful 

https://vibe.naver.com/album/3137098

 

Behind the scene

 

[nona88]

31 minutes ago, Heidi Seow said:

Hahaha, of coz @nona88 Im afraid they still stop at the moment when YH wanna wear protection uniform go into pain management place. 

 

Thanks for the OST part.3. love it!  

Edit : I saw the lyrics and translate it... Sad but beautiful 

https://vibe.naver.com/album/3137098

 

Behind the scene

 

 You right I am sorry sure I want today too to get after he get inside or helping  her from outside  anyway I want him to have the worry of her life today ( I am NOT sure  too if they going to let us  suffer to the result  of test till tomorrow)

 

Thanks you for the behind scene 

Yeh it sad but beautiful  but it talk about wanna  to share pain and always being there for him/ her 

 

 

[Heidi Seow]

2 minutes ago, nona88 said:

 You right I am sorry sure I want today too to get after he get inside or helping  her from outside  anyway I want him to have the worry of her life today ( I am NOT sure  too if they going to let us  suffer to the result  of test till tomorrow)

 

Thanks you for the behind scene 

Yeh it sad but beautiful  but it talk about wanna  to share pain and always being there for him/ her 

 

 

No worries @nona88, but I have feeling they will stop at test result (hopefully not) 

 

They looks so happy and relax at gathering scene and seems like they all easy to get NG. Non stop laughing. 

 

Yes yes, I'm sure they will always be there for each other. *cross fingers. 

[nona88]

I have to say something about the start of ep 7 

 

Spoiler

I like how Sy so  open with her feeling and fear she just say that to CYH 

OMG is she even realizing  that all what she said to him about how much she afraid about him mean she confessing her love to him??? 

Is he realizing it too?? 

That not what normal people say to each other just lover and family worry  deathly like this 

 

I cant get enough from this two so refresh  and so honest 

 

And a day in the life of CYH it so sad to see how much he had to do just to make sure yo live another day 

 

[nona88]

1 hour ago, Heidi Seow said:

No worries @nona88, but I have feeling they will stop at test result (hopefully not) 

 

They looks so happy and relax at gathering scene and seems like they all easy to get NG. Non stop laughing. 

 

Yes yes, I'm sure they will always be there for each other. *cross fingers. 

 

They did make us suffer till tomorrow   but no worry the previews give some relief 

Spoiler

Are we going to have a confess  tomorrow 

I just love everything about today eps