[Drama 2018] My Mister, 나의 아저씨 - Best Drama at 2019 (55th) BaekSang Arts Awards

[Raymond]

14 hours ago, sweetroad said:

 

Omo, that is so cute!! These are the ones I thought made it into the show:

 

25 signs he like you more than a friend:

1. Builds communication 

2. Lets his guard down

3. Displays a healthy jealousy 

4. Appreciate your presence

5. Observes even the small things about you

6. His eyes talk

7. Playful around you

8. Goes the extra mile for you

9. Changes his body language

10. Acts a little lost in your presence

11. Takes an interest in what you like

12. Priorities his time with you

13. Keeps you updated

14. His texting habits

15. Acknowledge your efforts

16. Introduces you to his inner circle

17. Wants to know your story and future plans

18. Initiates the talk

19. Changes his talking style

20. Show protectiveness 

21. Trusts you blindly

22. He is there for you

23. Craves your attention

24. Looks forward to seeing you

25. Finds every conversations with you interesting 

 

What do you all think?

 

And I wish we could have seen some of #7, "Playful around you."  I'm wracking my brain to recall if PDH was ever playful with JA :). The only time he was playful in my memory was when Jung Hee first came back from Thailand.

 

 

I'm with you, usually very resistant to big age gaps, for many reasons. That's why MM took me so much by surprise.

 

 

Interesting! Will have to look next time.

 

 

Beautifully said. Those who loved DH would cheer on JA and DH, once they saw how happy and comfortable he was when he was with her. His mother, brothers, and friends were so uneasy and deferential toward YH that they were basically always on their best behavior around her. But Sang Hoon and Jae Cheol were already so comfortable around JA that they were joking around (too much) at halmeoni's funeral.

 

 

He's a very endearing character! Right now I'm watching "Dinner Mate" for the first time and Park Ho San plays a homeless man named Keanu in it. Hilarious!

 

Love your analyses on the show @Unclouded and @Raymond.

 

By the way @Unclouded the other two scenes I liked in Diary of a Prosecutor were:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

- When young gamer and legal assistant were kissing, and all the lawyers were watching them through the window. When the lightning went off and their silhouettes flashed in the light I may have screamed a little!

 

- When the department head grabbed LSK in the hallway and was threatening him up close. That was soo funny! LSK played that scene so well.

 

Probably adding 21 (at least part of) and 22 with full description below:

21. Trusts You Blindly

Men usually tell you about their secrets and dark past and do not camouflage their feelings when they fall for someone. Another major sign to know he trusts you is when he remembers you in times of crisis. These actions indicate he is open and possibly in love with you.

22. He Is There For You

Men will show an extra willingness to be there for you on your darkest days and assure you their love and support when they like you. If he makes you feel protected and gives you space, he is the one. It indicates his care and concern about you; and implies that he is in love with you. (Very DH)

DH probably too depressed in this story to be playful. He only came into full brightness in the last 5 minutes after JA invited him for dinner, and I do think he displayed a bit of playfulness in his brilliant smile, as well as his departure walk.  Might be the bottoms up laugh during the 'pretty girl' drink?

Link for the article:

https://www.stylecraze.com/articles/signs-he-likes-you-more-than-a-friend/

May be the writer applied a bit of the behaviour descriptions in the article in designing DH. It is all about love implication without direct admission.

My relative (a seasoned kdrama viewer) in US watched MM in 4 days after my strong recommendation. She texted: surprisingly good ending.

 

[Unclouded]

9 hours ago, sweetroad said:

Interesting! Will have to look next time.

 

The other thing that stood out to me here is the way YH looks at DH while this is happening, like she's actually worried for him. There were so many moments earlier where he'd be sad on the couch and she wouldn't blink an eye. The way she kept gazing in his direction after he got up after the rousing toast - I can't even tell what that expression is. 

 

10 hours ago, sweetroad said:

Love your analyses on the show @Unclouded and @Raymond.

 

By the way @Unclouded the other two scenes I liked in Diary of a Prosecutor were:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

- When young gamer and legal assistant were kissing, and all the lawyers were watching them through the window. When the lightning went off and their silhouettes flashed in the light I may have screamed a little!

 

- When the department head grabbed LSK in the hallway and was threatening him up close. That was soo funny! LSK played that scene so well.

 

 

Thanks! It's good to have people to talk the feelings about this show with. 

Yeah, those were both great scenes. The second one definitely had tension of a far different type than what I was expecting, but it was hilarious to watch. And the whole gaming sub-plot was just so random but somehow worked really well. 

 

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

Link for the article:

https://www.stylecraze.com/articles/signs-he-likes-you-more-than-a-friend/

May be the writer applied a bit of the behaviour descriptions in the article in designing DH. It is all about love implication without direct admission.

Honestly I never understand the meaning of platonic love unless it is not exclusive of romantic love. It's description so abstract and can't recall seeing any drama or movie (or in real world, which is normally just a friend, or more than just a friend) applying so called platonic love when a handsome male lead and pretty/attractive female lead are involved (hidden sexual desire is shown often)

It was really fun to think about this list. I guess I wonder which parts are exclusive for romantic love but not involved in platonic love. To me what stands out are 3 (Displays a healthy jealousy), 6 (His eyes talk), 10 (Acts a little lost in your presence), 19 (Changes his talking style), 23 (Craves your attention), and 25 (Finds every conversation with you interesting). 

 

About platonic love between attractive leads, there are a lot of detective/investigative dramas like this (i.e. Signal, The Guest), but that's just part of the genre and audience expectation. Stove League is the only non-investigative drama that comes to mind. 

[Raymond]

21 hours ago, Unclouded said:

It was really fun to think about this list. I guess I wonder which parts are exclusive for romantic love but not involved in platonic love. To me what stands out are 3 (Displays a healthy jealousy), 6 (His eyes talk), 10 (Acts a little lost in your presence), 19 (Changes his talking style), 23 (Craves your attention), and 25 (Finds every conversation with you interesting). 

 

About platonic love between attractive leads, there are a lot of detective/investigative dramas like this (i.e. Signal, The Guest), but that's just part of the genre and audience expectation. Stove League is the only non-investigative drama that comes to mind. 

Do you think no 6. His Eyes Talk is the key difference (man-in-love’s high intensity, focused look)?

Is romantic love and platonic love exclusive of each other? Why can't co-exist? Pure romantic love can be just intensive love of the hearts, spiritual and non sexual (when situation won't allow, quite common)? My basic question as I am not a love expert and total stranger to platonic love.

In episode 8 after his talent show recording for his son, DH right away talked about the 30,000 years old girl with JH while drinking, simply couldn’t keep JA out of his mind. That made JH knew in meeting first time and walking home with JA, that she’s the 30,000 years old girl when the age was mentioned again by her. Every word by JA is so important to DH already in episode 8.
Also JH advised DH to reborn into a new star by loving all the way, to stop the 30,000 years reborn cycles suffering (JA listening as well). Now I believe the very last telepathy dialogue of JA confirming achieving her peace to DH meaning both JA and DH now reborn into new star to complete their healing, by able to love freely all the way. And finally the 3 Park brothers are able to fulfill the wish of their mother to have a partner they will be happy with. Is there any other way to end this ‘healing’ drama? MM is such a incredible love story, the more I watch it.

[Unclouded]

21 hours ago, Raymond said:

Do you think no 6. His Eyes Talk is the key difference (man-in-love’s high intensity, focused look)?

Is romantic love and platonic love exclusive of each other? Why can't co-exist? Pure romantic love can be just intensive love of the hearts, spiritual and non sexual (when situation won't allow, quite common)?

It's a big difference for sure. But with romantic love, there are so many signs that it's like a combination of everything. I think it's because romantic and platonic love can co-exist that there's so much discussion/debate about this show. Especially because there isn't much physical happening, so that obvious difference isn't there. The most physically intimate scene is platonic - the backhug from SW to DH at the temple. 

 

With DH and JA, I thought the most convincing romantic sign was him missing her and making excuses (buying groceries for no reason) to see her, which falls under 23 (Craves your attention) and 24 (Looks forward to seeing you). But people can look forward to seeing their friends too, just maybe in a different way. Maybe the romantic case for DH and JA is less about there being this one thing that shows it, versus having this long list of reasons that all combine like a puzzle that has to have one answer. 

 

22 hours ago, Raymond said:

Also JH advised DH to reborn into a new star by loving all the way, to stop the 30,000 years reborn cycles suffering (JA listening as well). Now I believe the very last telepathy dialogue of JA confirming achieving her peace to DH meant both JA and DH now reborn into new star to complete their healing, by able to love freely all the way. MM is such a incredible love story, the more I view it.

Exactly! The rebirth, the next life is the future they're about to have together.

[Raymond]

10 minutes ago, Unclouded said:

It's a big difference for sure. But with romantic love, there are so many signs that it's like a combination of everything. I think it's because romantic and platonic love can co-exist that there's so much discussion/debate about this show. Especially because there isn't much physical happening, so that obvious difference isn't there. The most physically intimate scene is platonic - the backhug from SW to DH at the temple. 

 

With DH and JA, I thought the most convincing romantic sign was him missing her and making excuses (buying groceries for no reason) to see her, which falls under 23 (Craves your attention) and 24 (Looks forward to seeing you). But people can look forward to seeing their friends too, just maybe in a different way. Maybe the romantic case for DH and JA is less about there being this one thing that shows it, versus having this long list of reasons that all combine like a puzzle that has to have one answer. 

 

Exactly! The rebirth, the next life is the future they're about to have together.

Everything all agreed.

One of my friend said he watched kdramas up to the point the leads confessed to each others and kissed, then he would lose interest. Therefore MM would be a rare one that he would finish and wanting for more.

[Raymond]

On 6/27/2023 at 5:18 AM, sweetroad said:

 

Omo, that is so cute!! These are the ones I thought made it into the show:

 

25 signs he like you more than a friend:

1. Builds communication 

2. Lets his guard down

3. Displays a healthy jealousy 

4. Appreciate your presence

5. Observes even the small things about you

6. His eyes talk

7. Playful around you

8. Goes the extra mile for you

9. Changes his body language

10. Acts a little lost in your presence

11. Takes an interest in what you like

12. Priorities his time with you

13. Keeps you updated

14. His texting habits

15. Acknowledge your efforts

16. Introduces you to his inner circle

17. Wants to know your story and future plans

18. Initiates the talk

19. Changes his talking style

20. Show protectiveness 

21. Trusts you blindly

22. He is there for you

23. Craves your attention

24. Looks forward to seeing you

25. Finds every conversations with you interesting 

 

What do you all think?

 

And I wish we could have seen some of #7, "Playful around you."  I'm wracking my brain to recall if PDH was ever playful with JA :). The only time he was playful in my memory was when Jung Hee first came back from Thailand.

 

 

I'm with you, usually very resistant to big age gaps, for many reasons. That's why MM took me so much by surprise.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Reading your old post at Fangirl Verdict Spoiler Zone MM episode 8 you were spotted on about their chemistry when DH waited for JA outside the station and saw each others across the road. That encounter setting so typical of many romantic kdramas between lovers. And before that their look at each others through the train window just so intensed. Not for a single moment did DH looked at JH like that. His attitude towards JH very typical of good old trusty friends, sex independent, different chemistry, that of platonic relationship? Posts said they seen more DH/JH chemistry over DH/JA could only be because of their appearance, similar in age?

For those trying to convince themselves possibility of YH living overseas but DH won't divorce her, would they consider it is very cruel, for all DH, JA, and YH ended up living practically as single in their future life? Is that a fitting end for a healing drama at all? And what is the purpose of the last cafe scene, which clearly shown viewers who are the end game? (Note It is not easy, but entirely possible for a smart, foreign lawyer to pass the California bar exam, even by self study, from my own family experience).
Half this drama is about emotional romantic relationships, YH/JY, KH/Yoo Ra, JH/the monk, even some considered Kwang il feeling on JA romantic, but never DH/JA?

My comments all based on rewatch.

[sweetroad]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:52 AM, Raymond said:

Link for the article:

https://www.stylecraze.com/articles/signs-he-likes-you-more-than-a-friend/

 

This is a fun article. A lot of it rings true with DH and JA.

 

On 6/27/2023 at 7:46 AM, Unclouded said:

The way she kept gazing in his direction after he got up after the rousing toast - I can't even tell what that expression is. 

 

It was intriguing for sure. She seemed to know that Sang Won's absence had really affected DH over the past 20 years. It's like what she said to DJY in episode 3 or 4, that DH had always seemed lonely and as if he were missing something. Maybe that "something" was Sang Won, or maybe it was JA, but in any case he didn't have people around with whom he could be fully himself, and YH knew it.

 

On 6/27/2023 at 7:46 AM, Unclouded said:

The second one definitely had tension of a far different type than what I was expecting, but it was hilarious to watch. And the whole gaming sub-plot was just so random but somehow worked really well. 

 

If you get to watch "This Week, My Wife's Having an Affair," let me know. It has the same whimsy and "pop" of "Diary of a Prosecutor" and is funnier and more light-hearted than I had anticipated. There's some good social commentary on working moms, too, that I appreciated.

 

On 6/29/2023 at 12:58 AM, Raymond said:

And what is the purpose of the last cafe scene, which clearly shown viewers who are the end game?

 

Totally agree! The show didn't have to end on the cafe scene - they could have just showed DH in his new company and JA confidently walking around with her new friends. In fact, the first time I watched the show, I thought JA’s office and friend scenes were showing her in Busan. It was only when she walked by Saman E and C that I was like, "Aahhh!! She's in Seoul!" And when she saw DH again it was a beautiful moment. But anyway - they could have just ended with both of them being content in their individual lives. The fact that the show brought them into contact together again is significant, I think.

 

Have you read this post yet on Give Me Slippers? I love it:

How Great Love Stories End

 

[Raymond]

On 7/4/2023 at 7:33 AM, sweetroad said:

 

This is a fun article. A lot of it rings true with DH and JA.

 

 

It was intriguing for sure. She seemed to know that Sang Won's absence had really affected DH over the past 20 years. It's like what she said to DJY in episode 3 or 4, that DH had always seemed lonely and as if he were missing something. Maybe that "something" was Sang Won, or maybe it was JA, but in any case he didn't have people around with whom he could be fully himself, and YH knew it.

 

 

If you get to watch "This Week, My Wife's Having an Affair," let me know. It has the same whimsy and "pop" of "Diary of a Prosecutor" and is funnier and more light-hearted than I had anticipated. There's some good social commentary on working moms, too, that I appreciated.

 

 

Totally agree! The show didn't have to end on the cafe scene - they could have just showed DH in his new company and JA confidently walking around with her new friends. In fact, the first time I watched the show, I thought JA’s office and friend scenes were showing her in Busan. It was only when she walked by Saman E and C that I was like, "Aahhh!! She's in Seoul!" And when she saw DH again it was a beautiful moment. But anyway - they could have just ended with both of them being content in their individual lives. The fact that the show brought them into contact together again is significant, I think.

 

Have you read this post yet on Give Me Slippers? I love it:

How Great Love Stories End

 

I did read this post. Handsome middle aged actor pairing with pretty young actress were norm in classic Hollywood movies. Gary Grant, Gregory Peck, James Stewart, with Audrey Hepburn, Grace Kelly, Vivian Leigh etc. The great movies list can include Roman Holiday, and the later Lost in Translation (51 old with a 17 years old, already mentioned in early post), both classic romantic films with more open ending than MM. And who can forget Sound of Music, the 47 years old captain marrying the 22 years old Maria (not the beautiful mid age Baroness)! That's about the same ages of DH/JA.

Reading Dramabeans posts starting episode 10 just for fun, there were actually a few quite open minded near the end of the posts, willing to judge based on what being shown, not all one sided.

[Unclouded]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:33 PM, sweetroad said:

It was intriguing for sure. She seemed to know that Sang Won's absence had really affected DH over the past 20 years. It's like what she said to DJY in episode 3 or 4, that DH had always seemed lonely and as if he were missing something. Maybe that "something" was Sang Won, or maybe it was JA, but in any case he didn't have people around with whom he could be fully himself, and YH knew it.

Exactly, though she'd have been even more mad at him if SW were around. Imagine how much less time he'd spend at their home then? I think the second person he's missing is his father, which maybe shows most when he's burdened by his brothers. JA is like a replacement for all three of SW, his father, and YH, which is why I think he's so emotionally reliant on her, why he openly misses her and keeps her close even with the potential consequences. 

 

It's easy with the age gap to see when DH's is acting in a more paternal way (esp the scene where he gives her advice about her grandma), but I think JA is just as paternal (if not more) towards him. She makes a lot of decisions for him - she pushes YH to go back to him, she tells YH about him being aware of the cheating and basically initiates that break-up. Just as DH is willing to sacrifice himself/his happiness so his kid overseas can be happy, she's willing to sacrifice herself so that DH's affair doesn't get exposed. When DH's talking to SW at the temple: "Why don't you try telling Ji Seok that you sacrificed for him. He'll curse at you. Imagine how he'll feel", isn't this kinda similar to how DH reacts when he sees JA at the shack: "If I can't show you I'm living a happy life, you'll continue to be in pain because of me. And when I think of you in pain because of me, I will be in so much pain that I won't be able to go on"? And of course there's the most direct scene, when she tells him his interview isn't a big deal, right after he says he wished he could have his father comfort him with those words. 

 

So it was always baffling to me to see people describe this relationship as one where DH is the father figure or mentor, when she guides and protects him as much if not more. 

 

On 7/3/2023 at 5:33 PM, sweetroad said:

If you get to watch "This Week, My Wife's Having an Affair," let me know. It has the same whimsy and "pop" of "Diary of a Prosecutor" and is funnier and more light-hearted than I had anticipated. There's some good social commentary on working moms, too, that I appreciated.

Will do! I think watching Diary of a Prosecutor was good for me in the sense that I don't feel as immediately emotional when seeing LSK on screen (DH is just so pitiful). I finished watching Call it Love recently, didn't realize going in just how much of it was so similar to My Mister. But it kind of lost its momentum 3/4 of the way through and became dull (though the second leads were good!).

 

How was Dinner Mate? I was thinking of watching that at some point. 

[Raymond]

Reading posts in the beanies MM episode 11 recap mostly centred on arguments (some quite personal) between the pro marriage camp and the pro divorce camp. All the arguments seems just based on what individual's own personal belief and ideas on marriage and love etc, as well as thinking DH and YH are the 2 main leads? They totally ignored what the PD/writer actually wanted and trying to show us throughout the drama. Also ignored is a main lead called JA, who has been episode by episode, taking over DH's heart and soul (the give me slippers scene, similar to the other significant encounters between JA/DH, just brushed aside meaning nothing to them). They don't seems to realise the PD/writer shown us in this drama, the woman with the ajusshi is JA, and the PD/writer have made sure everyone else has to walk aside, or help her, in her 16 episode journey of walking towards DH (some even think JA, like a supporting cast, would wake up YH so she could reconcile with DH). May be many had the 2nd lead (YH) syndrome?

[Unclouded]

On 7/6/2023 at 8:15 AM, Raymond said:

Reading posts in the beanies MM episode 11 recap mostly centred on arguments (some quite personal) between the pro marriage camp and the pro divorce camp

How can anyone be pro marriage here? For most of the show, YH shows no interest at all in DH's well-being. Forget love, shouldn't she at least care about whether her spouse is gonna make it to the next day? Even if they don't think that JA and DH are going to have a romantic relationship, it's insane to think that DH and YH can somehow continue their life together. Like that's just impossible at this point

[Raymond]

1 hour ago, Unclouded said:

How can anyone be pro marriage here? For most of the show, YH shows no interest at all in DH's well-being. Forget love, shouldn't she at least care about whether her spouse is gonna make it to the next day? Even if they don't think that JA and DH are going to have a romantic relationship, it's insane to think that DH and YH can somehow continue their life together. Like that's just impossible at this point

Exactly the reason I am quite annoyed, but on the other hand, interesting to see the reasoning from the pro marriage camp which all based on their personal opinion, assumptions like time would cure etc etc (they decided because they married, they must still love each other). Their prime wish is YH/DH would end up together at the end, and any interaction between the 2 they would suggest positive sign of reconciliation. They all ignored the simple fact that the marriage to YH is the main source of DH living in hell in this drama, even suicidal, and no better for YH staying with DH.

[Unclouded]

2 hours ago, Raymond said:

Exactly the reason I am quite annoyed, but on the other hand, interesting to see the reasoning from the pro marriage camp which all based on their personal opinion, assumptions like time would cure etc etc (they decided because they married, they must still love each other). Their prime wish is YH/DH would end up together at the end, and any interaction between the 2 they would suggest positive sign of reconciliation. They all ignored the simple fact that the marriage to YH is the main source of DH living in hell in this drama, even suicidal, and no better for YH staying with DH.

What I feel most deprived of watching this show (far more than the lack of explicit romance) is the interactions between JA and the rest of DH's family after they find out about YH's adultery. I feel like it would be intensely moving to see his mother (or the brothers) react to her after knowing how she tried to protect him from YH's actions. Anyone who thinks that this isn't a romance, or who thinks that somehow DH and YH are going to get back together, has a lot of explaining to do, cause she's just done so much damage to him, as you point out. The lack of love - I mean what's the point of being married to someone if they don't love you. And given a choice, why would DH ever go back to YH over JA, when JA loves him so much more, and will go to such extremes to protect him. It just doesn't make any sense. 

 

I feel like the 'time will cure all' perspective is one that's degrading in a way. It assumes that the only person who can love DH (or a similar person) is their spouse, that there's no other way of being happy. Humans aren't perfect - we make mistakes in marriage, in relationships. Is it so wrong to correct them, to realize when we go wrong? The anti-shippers seem unnecessarily ideological, like they can't accept that sometimes people make mistakes, that not all marriages have to be permanent. What this drama shows is that decency is fundamentally attractive, it's something that people respect and are drawn to. There's no need to be a doormat, and just accept whatever garbage your spouse is up to, when they're disloyal. There are more happy possibilities in the future for people who are just naturally good. 

[Raymond]

On 7/8/2023 at 6:20 PM, Unclouded said:

What I feel most deprived of watching this show (far more than the lack of explicit romance) is the interactions between JA and the rest of DH's family after they find out about YH's adultery. I feel like it would be intensely moving to see his mother (or the brothers) react to her after knowing how she tried to protect him from YH's actions. Anyone who thinks that this isn't a romance, or who thinks that somehow DH and YH are going to get back together, has a lot of explaining to do, cause she's just done so much damage to him, as you point out. The lack of love - I mean what's the point of being married to someone if they don't love you. And given a choice, why would DH ever go back to YH over JA, when JA loves him so much more, and will go to such extremes to protect him. It just doesn't make any sense. 

 

I feel like the 'time will cure all' perspective is one that's degrading in a way. It assumes that the only person who can love DH (or a similar person) is their spouse, that there's no other way of being happy. Humans aren't perfect - we make mistakes in marriage, in relationships. Is it so wrong to correct them, to realize when we go wrong? The anti-shippers seem unnecessarily ideological, like they can't accept that sometimes people make mistakes, that not all marriages have to be permanent. What this drama shows is that decency is fundamentally attractive, it's something that people respect and are drawn to. There's no need to be a doormat, and just accept whatever garbage your spouse is up to, when they're disloyal. There are more happy possibilities in the future for people who are just naturally good. 

Yes, for sure if the last episode can be lengthened by 15 minutes, showing a party at JH Bar welcoming JA back, including mom of the Park brothers, Yu ra and wife of SH, and the gang in that community, to finally see the healing of the mother having the 3 sons with the partner they will be happy with, then I would probably enjoy to watch MM for another 10 times. But I actually never found any 'happy' ending romantic kdrama involved the rest of the cast, other than the 2 main leads, in the final scene. Always felt something missed out not completed.

[partyon]

 

cr. gm4queen

 

Who had the worst makeup in a kdrama? Let's vote!

 

 

 

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[sweetroad]

On 7/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Unclouded said:

Exactly, though she'd have been even more mad at him if SW were around. Imagine how much less time he'd spend at their home then? I think the second person he's missing is his father, which maybe shows most when he's burdened by his brothers. JA is like a replacement for all three of SW, his father, and YH, which is why I think he's so emotionally reliant on her, why he openly misses her and keeps her close even with the potential consequences. 

 

Wow, great insight!

 

Since we never saw Sang Won growing up with the Hugye gang, we can only imagine what it was like when he was there. His absence is felt by everyone, but especially by Jung Hee and Dong Hoon. And you're right, if SW were still around, DH would be drawn out of the home even more, since SW gets him.

 

And you're right, as much as Sang Hoon tries to be the oldest, responsible brother since his dad died, he's been such a failure (in his own terms) at his career and in taking care of the family. So DH has had to do it. He does it willingly and uncomplainingly, of course, but it still makes him suffer in silence. Ideally all three of the brothers would be able to support their mom and be there for each other. Thankfully by the middle of the show the brothers' cleaning business is stable and Sang Hoon and Ki Hoon are both able to give their mom a birthday gift.

 

It really is so moving that JA understands DH, supports him, and loves him the way she does.

 

On 7/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Unclouded said:

It's easy with the age gap to see when DH's is acting in a more paternal way (esp the scene where he gives her advice about her grandma), but I think JA is just as paternal (if not more) towards him. She makes a lot of decisions for him - she pushes YH to go back to him, she tells YH about him being aware of the cheating and basically initiates that break-up. Just as DH is willing to sacrifice himself/his happiness so his kid overseas can be happy, she's willing to sacrifice herself so that DH's affair doesn't get exposed.

 

Completely agree. The way JA and DH instruct each other, support each other, and fight for each other is mutual and equal. They both bring their smarts and unique resources to the friendship - his maturity and knowledge of the system, and her street smarts and survival skills. She's already killed someone to defend her grandma, why wouldn't she stick up for DH in any lesser way? He's worth it to her, just like grandma is. I love that they both act for the other in instinctive, natural ways.

 

On 7/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Unclouded said:

So it was always baffling to me to see people describe this relationship as one where DH is the father figure or mentor, when she guides and protects him as much if not more.

 

On 7/6/2023 at 8:15 AM, Raymond said:

They totally ignored what the PD/writer actually wanted and trying to show us throughout the drama. Also ignored is a main lead called JA, who has been episode by episode, taking over DH's heart and soul (the give me slippers scene, similar to the other significant encounters between JA/DH, just brushed aside meaning nothing to them).

 

The first time watching the show, I think many of us just see things through our own lenses and biases. It's out-of-the-box to imagine a love story between JA and DH, so "of course" we see DH as a mentor or father figure who will eventually reconcile with his wife. We've seen plenty of films and shows like that, so that's what we predict will happen and that's what we read into the scenes of the show. So I can imagine people on the Dramabeans forum up to episodes 10 or 11, who were commenting as they went, NOT seeing the loveline. For me, things started feeling more strange/subversive/uncommon in episodes 14 - 16. However, on my first watch, I still ended the show thinking that DH as a mentor was so proud to see JA, his mentee, doing so well. That's what I had read into the show the entire time, because I was resistant to an age-gap romance.

 

All that to say, I'm curious if by episode 16 the Dramabeans folks will have seen more of the loveline upon their first watch...or not. Keep us posted if you like!

 

On 7/4/2023 at 10:10 PM, Unclouded said:

How was Dinner Mate? I was thinking of watching that at some point. 

 

I really enjoyed it. It was a lowkey, sweet romantic show. A friend mentioned that the color palette was very soothing and I had to agree; I ended up watching almost all of the episodes before going to bed. The two leads were fun and played off each other well. And it was a bonus to see Park Ho San transform into a homeless guy! His character arc (combined with one of the other supporting characters) stole the show.

 

 

[sadiesmith]

Hello, everyone! You might enjoy reading this rather spirited discussion/disagreement on mydramalist. I see someone making the same points you are making here but coming from a totally different angle.  

[Unclouded]

53 minutes ago, sadiesmith said:

Hello, everyone! You might enjoy reading this rather spirited discussion/disagreement on mydramalist. I see someone making the same points you are making here but coming from a totally different angle.  

It's strange to see someone there trying to drag this into gender differences, when this show has a very even gender split audience-wise (especially when compared to every other K-drama). I guess it's weird because it's conservative in the sense that it depicts real life in a conservative country, but also very strongly feminist in the way it treats the female characters. I feel like every person around DH assumes that he's in a relationship with JA (or encourages it) and has no problem with it, which is deeply messed up since he's a married man. But it's also one of the most feminist K-dramas I've ever seen. JA is much more heroic and has much more agency than almost every other FL I've ever come across. So we have an FL who regularly gets abused by a man (the loan shark) and has her intentions regularly demeaned by men (DJY and DH's siblings), but who's also the strongest, the most paternal, and most active and empowered character in the show. I absolutely despised DH's siblings for most of the show (on my first watch) because of the way they talked about JA and encouraged DH to date her, even though that would be clearly immoral. And then you have YH, who has so much more room to express herself and defend herself than you'd ever expect from a cheating wife in a K-drama.

 

16 hours ago, sweetroad said:

The first time watching the show, I think many of us just see things through our own lenses and biases. It's out-of-the-box to imagine a love story between JA and DH, so "of course" we see DH as a mentor or father figure who will eventually reconcile with his wife. We've seen plenty of films and shows like that, so that's what we predict will happen and that's what we read into the scenes of the show. So I can imagine people on the Dramabeans forum up to episodes 10 or 11, who were commenting as they went, NOT seeing the loveline. For me, things started feeling more strange/subversive/uncommon in episodes 14 - 16. However, on my first watch, I still ended the show thinking that DH as a mentor was so proud to see JA, his mentee, doing so well. That's what I had read into the show the entire time, because I was resistant to an age-gap romance.

 

All that to say, I'm curious if by episode 16 the Dramabeans folks will have seen more of the loveline upon their first watch...or not. Keep us posted if you like!

I don't want to be too judgmental cause I've gone back and forth a few times myself throughout watching the show. It's not that I object to the confusion about whether JA and DH have romantic feelings for each other or not (this you can debate forever). What I feel strongly about is the insistence that DH must stay in his marriage, which at no point I ever agreed with, since it brings so much damage to him (as @Raymond points out). I'll be honest, I waited a long time before watching this show, mostly because I assumed that it involved a relationship between DH and JA, and the age gap bothered me enough to put it off for almost two years. 

[sweetroad]

11 hours ago, sadiesmith said:

Hello, everyone! You might enjoy reading this rather spirited discussion/disagreement on mydramalist. I see someone making the same points you are making here but coming from a totally different angle.

 

Haha, reading through that thread made my hackles rise, since it's the same kind of insults and arrogance I find in the BBC website's comments sections. But it was interesting to see people get passionate about DH being good and not stupid.

 

9 hours ago, Unclouded said:

JA is much more heroic and has much more agency than almost every other FL I've ever come across. So we have an FL who regularly gets abused by a man (the loan shark) and has her intentions regularly demeaned by men (DJY and DH's siblings), but who's also the strongest, the most paternal, and most active and empowered character in the show. I absolutely despised DH's siblings for most of the show (on my first watch) because of the way they talked about JA and encouraged DH to date her, even though that would be clearly immoral. And then you have YH, who has so much more room to express herself and defend herself than you'd ever expect from a cheating wife in a K-drama.

 

Such great points. PHY treats each character as a person, not as a stereotype. In fact, when she does wade into a little bit of stereotyping (the brothers making fun of DH for catching the attention of a younger girl), she has them grow up and appreciate JA for who she is, by the end.

 

9 hours ago, Unclouded said:

I'll be honest, I waited a long time before watching this show, mostly because I assumed that it involved a relationship between DH and JA, and the age gap bothered me enough to put it off for almost two years. 

 

I waited a long time, too, first because of the grimness of some of the promo materials, and two because of the possible age-gap romance. When I did watch it, I was relieved (!!) there wasn't any romance there and there was a possibility he went back to his wife at the end. Then I found Give Me Slippers, and all my pre-conceived notions were dashed to the ground.

 

I think if YH had been cheating and lying to him the entire show, I would've felt like you, that DH absolutely should not have gone back to her. However, since she changed mid-way through and became more concerned for him - initiating conversations with him, waiting up for him, going to see his family, etc - I thought she had changed and there was a chance between them.

 

However, as @actionscript has pointed out before, for a man to see his arrogant boss and his wife having an affair and trying to get him fired, would be enough to feel deeply betrayed. In reality DH's marriage was over by Ep 7 when he found out about the affair and that YH had known about the bribe. I just didn't see all of that on my first watch. Now that I do, I think PHY is just brilliant for how she built up the story, subtly but with all those tight elements.

 

@Unclouded just two more posts from you and I can go back and "Like" all your posts!

[Raymond]

On 7/10/2023 at 2:02 PM, sadiesmith said:

Hello, everyone! You might enjoy reading this rather spirited discussion/disagreement on mydramalist. I see someone making the same points you are making here but coming from a totally different angle.  

Will certainly read that. So many different people posting about MM on different forums!

Now finished rewatching episode 13. Too many extremely moving moments, with the episode starting with JA defending DH (recap), and ending with DH defending JA. And really too much, too much longings/missings from DH not to feel his beyond friendship love. Even most postings in dramabeans been shifted to focus on the story line development on JA/DH expected in the remaining episodes. Hard not to be moved by the main leads.

This is supposed to be a healing drama. And everytime watching DH and YH together just too much pain, never any joy. And now spilling to the brothers. So always felt the sooner they separated the better, of course including for the sake of JA. I think for couples in general the more love they have in beginning the more damage, hatred, and pain, betrayal will bring (the degradation is impossible to be described). And separation would be the only solution that might bring forgiveness, healing, to each others, as they can become friends again (if fully regretted and even easier, if the other side found a replacement).

Once again I am as confused as most in 1st watch, never know what t expect.