[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[wenlhy]

13 hours ago, fengari said:

IU was the perfect match for  WS/LJG. Visually are the epitome of harmony and grace.And indeed, she was brave and confident enough enough to take the project :imo,  LJG outshined all his partners (with the exception of Shin Min-ah maybe)  untill now.Furthermore, IU presence was a plus for WS´s charm: they were like the visualisation of  a "perfect pitch" together.

Completely agree, although IU acting is not impressive at first, but I really can't imagine if Hae Soo was acted by other actress and I can't think of other actress who is suitable for this role. Hae Soo character need look youthful and mature as well. Hwang Jung Eum was rumored to play Hae Soo character, I think she look too mature for young Hae Soo on earlier episode,

[antiherofans]

12 minutes ago, zi4r said:

Hmmm... This thread seems to have slowed down considerably. I guess everyone's in withdrawal or recovery mode.

I still haven't found the time or courage to watch the finale SBS version with subs, or to re-watch the DF version. Last night, after work, I couldn't bring myself to back-read this thread or watch MLSHR... so I thought I would watch some other LJG drama to fill the void before bed.

But it seems, MLSHR has totally spoiled the whole sageuk K-Dramaland for me. As much as I rant about how MLSHR didn't live up to its potential when it comes to plot or editing, in terms of visual appeal, it's truly unmatched (at least for me). I'm a very visual person. As much as I care about a drama's characters & plot, the visual appeal matters the most to me, because without that, I cannot immerse myself at all in the experience. And when it comes to MLSHR, the gorgeousness of the costumes & locations, the flawlessness of the action scenes & other technically complex scenes, the almost poetic beauty of certain scenes, the almost otherworldly beauty of LJG...... They all make other dramas totally unwatchable to me now.

Last night, I tried LJG's "Arang" & "Scholars", Kim Soo-hyun's "Moon that Embraces the Sun" and Lee Min-ho's "Faith"..... They all used to visually engage me. But now, I can't even watch them. I keep seeing flaws everywhere in terms of editing & acting. The wide-angle scenes are lacking in terms of visual appeal. The more technical scenes are choppy & unbelievable. Even LJG's acting fluctuates in terms of quality. I didn't realize how magnificent LJG truly is in MLSHR, until I tried to re-watch his earlier sageuks.

I now realize that when we complain about poor-editing in this drama, it's only the OST & scene-sequencing that's the issue. In terms of frame-by-frame editing for each scene, MLSHR is excellent in almost every scene...... especially in technically complex scenes. I don't understand how a director who is capable of such a quality still makes the mistake of the "close-up madness" that plagues MLSHR. I also don't understand how the editing team that is capable of flawless work in technically complex scenes also made a mess out of scene-sequencing. It's like everyone's suffering from schizophrenia --- brilliant in some ways, utterly terrible in other ways.

Now, I realize I'm screwed. I love sageuk and I love LJG. But I am not sure whether another sageuk or another LJG drama will ever live up to the visual quality of this one. So last night, I ended up re-watching "Two Weeks" because it's so gritty & stark that it brings an entirely different type of visual appeal. It seems, I now have very limited choices of K-Dramas I can enjoy.

So thanks, MLSHR, for not living up to my expectations, and yet spoiling the whole sageuk-land with your brilliance. This drama has f***ed up my life in too many different ways to count. 

 

 

P.S. My 13-hr work-days are going to continue till Tuesday, it seems. No weekend for me. I guess, I should just give up on trying to back-read everything on this thread. So, Eclipses, I'll see you when I see you, I guess.

 

LOL, I am with you. MLSHR is one of a kind drama because it makes you feel a dilemma.

 

You want to love it but you see flaws everywhere. But when you try to hate it, you end up falling in love deeper and deeper to this drama.

You want to say the writing is horrible but you find the brilliant writing every where you look

You want to say some actor/actress can't act then suddenly (especially when they are going to die) they give you the best performance

You want to hate the close up because it is too much but then you realize some of the best scene actually when they do close up

They doing bad in SK but they do amazingly world wide

You want to stop watching this stupid drama but when you watch something else, you end up comparing it to MLSHR

 

And then, like a fool, you keep coming back for more painful and torturing experience

MLSHR is like junk food, you know it is not good for you yet you crave and crave for more

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Uniform Victory]

8 minutes ago, wenlhy said:

Completely agree, although IU acting is not impressive at first, but I really can't imagine if Hae Soo was acted by other actress and I can't think of other actress who is suitable for this role. Hae Soo character need look youthful and mature as well. Hwang Jung Eum was rumored to play Hae Soo character, I think she look too mature for young Hae Soo on earlier episode,

HJE, thankfully she wasn't casted. That girl from Oh Hae Young would I think be better than HJE.

[penforella]

Guys on episode 17 So asked Soo to tell him a story, then he said "We're nowhere near a thousand yet." Is that in reference to 1001 arabian nights/stories? Does anyone know?

[fengari]

2 hours ago, shamael said:

 

As far as I can tell, the timeline was all over the place in the second part of the finale - in both version.

WS & HS's daughter is supposed to be born around 952.

Queen Heonjung was born around 966. Wang Chi, her brother, was born in 960. So, when WW speaks about "the children" it is supposed to be around 969 for he died in 969 - BA's visit happens around his time of death - and the girl is not a baby.

The problem is it is referred to Ju's birthday in two instances in the international version and, as there is no sense of time in visual narration, our brain automatically links the two to create the timeline. So we assume - really it is totally normal - it is the same moment in time as it should be but if it is then WS & HS's daughter should be around 17 and GJ 44, but at the time YH speaks of the reforms as if it is something on going or at least quite new which would put it around 960.

 

And we should not forget that the actual Baek Ah, whose precise birthdate is unknown, is estimated to  have been born somehwere between 936 to 943.(King Taejo  married Baek Ah´mother in 935, and he died in 943). So, the whole existence of  our"  Baek Ah is a product of  creative liberty. And probably the same liberty was applied to  his bride-to-be.

 

[iridescentmoth]

I am highly grateful that HJE was not cast as Hae Soo, her acting is..too erratic and exuberant to depict the quiet resilience of Hae Soo in later episodes, although I will concede that she would have been suitable for younger and optimistic Hae Soo. 

IU diminutive stature and the fragile quality to her beauty wonderfully obscured Hae Soo's strength and fortitude. She was the perfect feminine harmony to the surprising but all consuming masculinity that LGK exuded as Wang So. 

[ohgee]

I dont know how people watch joseon era kdramas, i for one cant handle the hat and puffy clothes the men have to wear. Thats really annoying cause i really want to watch ljg other sagueks and so far i was only able to watch ilijimae but not arang or scholar. If he does do more sagueks i would prefer it if they were goryeo era but his modern drama two weeks is so good, the only thing i re-watched after MLSHR.

[redlion]

Hhhhhhhhh....... even LJK Still cant move on from SHR, Still post about SHR in his IG 

[nitelite1508]

3 hours ago, shamael said:

 

As far as I can tell, the timeline was all over the place in the second part of the finale - in both version.

WS & HS's daughter is supposed to be born around 952.

Queen Heonjung was born around 966. Wang Chi, her brother, was born in 960. So, when WW speaks about "the children" it is supposed to be around 969 for he died in 969 - BA's visit happens around his time of death - and the girl is not a baby.

The problem is it is referred to Ju's birthday in two instances in the international version and, as there is no sense of time in visual narration, our brain automatically links the two to create the timeline. So we assume - really it is totally normal - it is the same moment in time as it should be but if it is then WS & HS's daughter should be around 17 and GJ 44, but at the time YH speaks of the reforms as if it is something on going or at least quite new which would put it around 960.

 

Yes, the timeline is really hard to follow.

The scene with wook, baek ah, and little girl appeared before wang so met his daughter. So, I just assumed it happened at the same year or even much earlier than time with wang so and his daughter.

[fengari]

5 hours ago, penforella said:

Guys on episode 17 So asked Soo to tell him a story, then he said "We're nowhere near a thousand yet." Is that in reference to 1001 arabian nights/stories? Does anyone know?

yes!or  at least, I think so . I was about to write about this something baroque like "intertextuality in MLSHR"-but, thank gods I am too lazy, so I am glad that you mentioned it.  So, yes I think it is a reference to the 1001 nights. And if it is so, then it is a common element of the two  eras/worlds (Ws world  and Hs world).
The story-fairytale of Secherazade  (who marries the hurted/emotionally scarred King in order to save the girls, and postpones her own execution  with  stories succeeding  in the end to heal emotionally the king) was known in Asia  already in  6th century. This story was the frame for a collection of fairytales. In the form of "1001 nights" it is product of the modern world (i think 18th century when Galland gathered the stories) 

[dramu51ch0c10ve]

They look so blissful...all 3 of them together.The fan-edited pictures are so amazing!And they don't seem to stop appearing!

 

[virsvirs]

THE BEAUTIFUL HAE SOO <3

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[virsvirs]

“If we had met in another world and at another time. I was thinking how great that would have been”

“If we are not from the same world… I will find you. My… Soo”

 

[nikiazia]

1 hour ago, redlion said:

Hhhhhhhhh....... even LJK Still cant move on from SHR, Still post about SHR in his IG 

i think LJK really2 love his character as Wang So

[hiluna]

7 hours ago, kdramawriter said:

Moonlovers, chingus, like I promised here's Book II of Escape From the Palace. Things will not be what you expect b/c I'm an butth*le writer who does not like giving audiences what they want. 

http://archiveofourown.org/works/8474035/chapters/19416754

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12219889/1/

 

 

 

Aargh! you got me crying again  my nose has already taken so much punishment from kleenex  and you left it on a cliffhanger! I will wait for your next installment  Comsamida !

[40somethingahjumma]

7 hours ago, kdramawriter said:

UGH why are you always so on point. I think this is one of the reasons I connected so strongly to HS's character, because underneath the muddy motivations, I always saw a writer making a very CLEAR stance on the nature of humanity. There's such wisdom in realizing that about ourselves, that we cannot change that we only adapt but then revert to who we are. Much like WS did. There's a tremendous amount I've been able to draw out of the show and I'm sadden that other people did not. But that's okay. I've gotten far more out of this drama than it has gotten out of me. 

Character IS destiny and I'll go one step further to say that this character was made memorable because of her consistency. That I found really awe inspiring. I honestly don't think we needed that much to make the show greater than the sum of its parts, more internal monologues, a few more scenes for clarity and editing sequences, but honestly everything is already there (which is what I always saw). 

You're too kind. I feel like now the show is over and I've been given the big picture, there's so much I want to say about it. There were times while the show was airing that I wanted to say more but couldn't due to time constraints and concerns about overthinking things.

I think it's one of those shows that require the viewer to join the dots on their own whether by intention or by necessity. I'm always amused and a little surprised that there are people on the interweb to this day who are still wondering how Su ended up being pregnant and whether or not So knew that the little girl was his child. To me it's obvious as daylight. There are things that are less obvious... like the paintings in the gallery but I think our friends here have provided several plausible scenarios that involve Baek-A as the artist.

Having to put the pieces together myself really makes viewing so much more stimulating and engaging for me.

I imagine I could do the same kind of analysis on So now. Such a wonderfully, deeply flawed character. It's almost as if he's a kind of an emotional Peter Pan. He's so extreme in his love, anger and hate. And yet there's an underlying immaturity and vulnerability. Ep. 19 brought home how emotionally stunted he was and how incapable he was of processing his emotions properly. Like Othello, years of prejudice and a lack of familial love has made him internalize all the rejection in such an unhealthy fashion. Insecurity is the logical product of those wounds. Insecurity that leads to jealousy and fear. The conventional thinking is that Su doesn't trust So enough. Even if that's true (and I don't think it is), it seems to me that So doesn't trust Su enough either. He doesn't trust her enough to try to understand why she's restless in the palace and why she wants out so he shuts down any kind of meaningful conversation. He does treat her like a porcelain doll and even if she can't help him with the political stuff, he keeps too much to himself even with things that involve her. I don't understand everything about what my husband does, I certainly can't help him with his job but the talking and the sharing is the important part.

I also agree with what @Uniform Victory says about the ending being good in that it allows the viewer to make up their own minds about how this epic love continues. For me anyway I thought the little girl would have been enough of a closure for So... to finally have that certainty that Su never really left him but left behind something that celebrates their paradoxical love. But I also sense that the writer/PD wants us to know that those two were meant to be but not necessarily in Goryeo. In a freer place and time, their epic love could be played out rather differently with fewer restrictions. I've always thought that freedom was the real catchcry of this drama not love. The message seems to be that love needs freedom to thrive and survive. Love alone is not enough for two people to be together if there's no freedom for them to express that love in a way that reflects who they are. When there is no freedom, love can become an instrument of manipulation and fear. As much as love should be freely given, love must also be free to bloom. So thought that power would allow him to love more freely but in the end, power was stifling love more than it was capable of protecting or nurturing it. That's what so fleeting and so futile about power... You may be able to change the world but it can't fill the heart.

That I think, was Su's point at the end before the face wiping and piggyback scenes.

[hiluna]

7 hours ago, shinaabby said:

Im really hesitant to sign the petition... BBJQ (the second season of BBJX) killed it for me. I'm not trying to say that MLSHR will be the same, but rather I fear the possibility that the second season will disappoint us in some way... If they do end up making a second season, I'd still watch it to support the cast (& LJG) keke :3

I am not sure either but if they get a good writer, it could be a good romcom.  Imagine present day Soo taking So to task for having 5 children with that witch YH, and him defending himself against a 1000 yr old grudge from an ex-lover 

[zi4r]

(Wrote this reply during lunch, and then forgot to post.)

On 11/4/2016 at 2:30 PM, Sharine Phinisia said:

And don't forget IU too! she got balls for taking this project in the first place... and having LJG as her co-star... many people mention her and Baekhyun's acting as one of the cause of the flop of this drama... but despite several scenes that felt awkward, her depth and zap in every gestures and scenes with So always caught me by surprise.  It's kinda sad to see many discrediting comments that questioned her capability as the main heroine that's supposed to be the anchor of the drama... 

Honestly, I find IU's performance memorable in only four FIVE scenes (in descending order):

• Ep11: In the cave with Lady Oh (She was flawless here)
• Ep18: When she confronted GJ after CR's death (OMG, the look in her eyes)
• Ep20: Last scene when she was apologizing repeatedly to WS during the exhibition (Thanks @Sharine Phinisia for reminding me of this one)
• Ep9: Forced kiss scene (The fear in her eyes, and her pitiful struggles... It was very well done)
• Ep11: The conversation with WS after her torture, when she was in prison for his poisoning incident (Very believable expression of pain & helplessness)

A few other scenes that I would call to be "honourable mentions" (in no particular order):

• Ep4: Sending food to WS when he was on the hill overlooking the palace
• Ep8: The make-up scene
• Ep5 & Ep6: Crying after Lady Hae's death (both in piggy-back scene & funeral scene)
• Ep7: Eun's birthday

From Ep14 onwards, her performance is totally forgettable for me in almost every scene, because the serene-looking HS doesn't get to portray much emotion or acting skills. Even when HS was pleading with WS to re-accept/forgive her after Eun's death, her crying could not move me much, because by then, HS is almost a shell of her former-self, and her demeanor doesn't allow her to truly show the depth of her emotions.

 

I might have missed out one or two more "honourable mentions"....... but basically, there aren't many memorable scenes in terms of IU's acting. And that is NOT at all IU's fault! For a lead actress, this drama seems to have totally sidelined her in terms of letting her show her acting chops. Even Kang Han-na's role as YH is meatier in terms of acting-range than IU's. And truthfully, IU's acting is more than good enough! Yes, she might need a bit more direction than seasoned actors, but they could have given her a bit more meat to work with.

Frankly speaking, IU is really not good at looking surprised/startled. Her wide-eyed shots are terrible..... But you know why they look as terrible as they do? Because the director chooses to do too much "close-up madness" of those wide-eyed scenes! I don't think even LJG can make those shots attractive or believable, really. It must be so very awkward for her..... to look right into the camera-lens close-up and look startled....... and she had do that like 1000 times throughout the drama, because she has to be wide-eyed due to surprise or fear (especially with her visions) for too many scenes in the show. I think those scenes are the reason behind the criticisms for IU's acting. Because other than those, she did just fine!

For Baekhyun as well. Same case as IU. His character allowed for only one-dimensional acting, all the way until his death scene. And that one-dimensional childish & whiny character that they made him portray is frankly annoying, because the character has zero depth and seems to take up so much screen-time --- the screen time where we could be really covering "important" things that actually move the plot.

I feel really sorry for both IU & Baekhyun. It seems when the casting decision was made, it was only to use their star-power to draw eyeballs. Then, the production team seems to have decided that they would suck at acting...... so they were given very light/side-lined roles, which makes their acting look sucky. Self-fulfilling prophecy, really.

From the few scenes where IU & Baekhyun were really allowed to show their abilities, they acted their hearts out. And those scenes show that they are truly capable. The script's utterly relentless focus on LJG is almost criminal. (I love him, and he was absolutely heavenly in the drama, but that's no excuse for wishy-washy handling of other actors' roles.) And other members of the cast suffered for it.

Edited November 5, 2016 by zi4r
Changed memorable scenes to FIVE

[hiluna]

6 hours ago, bitofmadness said:

I just started watching the first episode of Entourage in hopes of curing this withdrawal syndrome and then....BAM...Kang Haneul's cameo 

  Reveal hidden contents

And then I realised...wow the first 20 minutes of the show really reminded me of MLSHR's case and what might be happening behind the scenes (less dramatic of course) 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gosh this withdrawal syndrome is not going away anytime soon. Why can't I just move on? 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

I know what you mean. I watch one percent of something and I picture LJG and IU as the leads, then I watch K2 and the characters are so boring especially the damsel in distress lead, however I like the lead antagonist  or (anti-heroine?) not sure yet but I am drawn to her character because she reminds me of WS, vulnerable yet powerful. I will have to wait and see what happens. Bottom line is that every kdrama I watch now is compared with MLSHR 

Those analytical posts that I love in this forum sure changed how I watch a show now. I hope future kdramas will have strong female characters in them like MLSHR because I can't go back to watching wishy washy damsel in distress characters anymore.

[hiluna]

4 hours ago, shamael said:

 

As far as I can tell, the timeline was all over the place in the second part of the finale - in both version.

WS & HS's daughter is supposed to be born around 952.

Queen Heonjung was born around 966. Wang Chi, her brother, was born in 960. So, when WW speaks about "the children" it is supposed to be around 969 for he died in 969 - BA's visit happens around his time of death - and the girl is not a baby.

The problem is it is referred to Ju's birthday in two instances in the international version and, as there is no sense of time in visual narration, our brain automatically links the two to create the timeline. So we assume - really it is totally normal - it is the same moment in time as it should be but if it is then WS & HS's daughter should be around 17 and GJ 44, but at the time YH speaks of the reforms as if it is something on going or at least quite new which would put it around 960.

 

I think they rushed the timeline to show that he didn't like his son and was cold to YH but I think it would have been better if they showed that she had no children yet and was anxious about it. Maybe, there should have been some inner thoughts that WS knew of the poisoning incident and gives her the cold shoulder, that would have been a more fitting ending for YH.