[Drama 2023] Payback/Law Money, 법쩐

[lila21]

1 hour ago, patternedsocks said:

A coma patient in real life would probably be more frail-looking, but this is a kdrama.

a coma patient in real life would not just be frail looking, we would assume she would have had a brain injury to put her on a coma and since she is not able to move herself she would have been flabby, she would have been fed through tubes she would have needed intense physical, psychological and other kinds of therapy but as you say this is kdrama. The reason the character of PJK is being criticized is because she is the heroine, and therefore so much more is expected of the character. It is not the fault of the character but the story teller and therefore the point of the appraisal of the character is make the storyteller listen to what is being said and hopefully improve the writing of the character's heroine status. What is the use of being the heroine if you are not given any story to work with? You would think that after being in the army she would have learned a thing of two about offense and defense. The other characters are in character, the bad guys are bad, corrupted and there is a tug of war between the good and the bad. The character of PJK as the heroine is expected to be more intelligent and helpful to her team. I mean EY is doing his own defense here. Where is his lawyer?

[patternedsocks]

37 minutes ago, lila21 said:

a coma patient in real life would not just be frail looking, we would assume she would have had a brain injury to put her on a coma and since she is not able to move herself she would have been flabby, she would have been fed through tubes she would have needed intense physical, psychological and other kinds of therapy but as you say this is kdrama.

 

I mean, I’d have to rewatch to check, but I’m pretty sure there was only a vague reason given for her coma, which was massive blood loss. There were no specific details and nothing about brain injuries.

 

Also, coma patients are given physical therapy while they’re unconscious to prevent too much damage to their muscles, joints, etc. Of course they’d need more after they wake up, but I’m assuming the super expensive care EY wanted for her was meant to help handwave that issue away.

 

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The reason the character of PJK is being criticized is because she is the heroine, and therefore so much more is expected of the character.

 

Sure, and EY is the hero. That’s my point. Neither of their injuries and recovery is realistic, but only one seems to be getting the criticism.

 

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I mean EY is doing his own defense here. Where is his lawyer?

His lawyer was looking for evidence to get him out of jail, some of which she did find when she discovered Chairman Myung was out of jail when CEO Oh died. She also managed to turn Jin-ho against Myung with the revelation his drugs were poisoned (true or not), which may end up being useful for getting more evidence.

Edited February 2, 2023 by patternedsocks

[Shimmery-summer]

30 minutes ago, patternedsocks said:

mean, I’d have to rewatch to check, but I’m pretty sure there was only a vague reason given for her coma, which was massive blood loss. There were no specific details and nothing about brain injuries.

 

Also, coma patients are given physical therapy while they’re unconscious to prevent too much damage to their muscles, joints, etc. Of course they’d need more after they wake up, but I’m assuming the super expensive care EY wanted for her was meant to help handwave that issue away.

She gets her brachial artery or some artery in her shoulder severed which can cause death in minutes. Her doctors don't give a positive response regarding her waking up. She is comatose for more than a month if I am not wrong, the day she wakes up she is sitting outside in the lawn like she just had leg injury and her speech was fully clear. Do you know the feeding tubes and ventilators attached to the body don't allow patients to talk normally atleast till some days even after they are removed. And it takes months to regain health but pjk looked much more glowing than she did in previous episodes with even better wardrobe.

[patternedsocks]

15 minutes ago, Shimmery-summer said:

She gets her brachial artery or some artery in her shoulder severed which can cause death in minutes. Her doctors don't give a positive response regarding her waking up.

We don’t get any specifics about her injury, why she’s in a coma, or why the doctors don’t know if she’ll wake up, so while you may be right, the show itself doesn’t give us anything beyond “she’s in a coma” and leaves us to guess at everything else.

 

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She is comatose for more than a month if I am not wrong, the day she wakes up she is sitting outside in the lawn like she just had leg injury and her speech was fully clear.

Yes, I agree that this is far-fetched.

 

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Do you know the feeding tubes and ventilators attached to the body don't allow patients to talk normally atleast till some days even after they are removed. And it takes months to regain health but pjk looked much more glowing than she did in previous episodes with even better wardrobe.

There are different types of feeding tubes, not all of which would affect speech for days. I don’t understand your point about her wardrobe— should people who’ve been in hospital continue to wear drab clothing to show they’ve just been in hospital?

 

I’m getting waaaay off-topic— my point all along has been if we’re criticising PJK for the realism of her injury and recovery and looking too good for an injured person, why is there none of the same applied to EY? He was stabbed, beaten multiple times, put in solitary isolation, targeted for bad treatment by the warden, and still comes out looking great, too.

[lila21]

1 hour ago, patternedsocks said:

I mean, I’d have to rewatch to check, but I’m pretty sure there was only a vague reason given for her coma, which was massive blood loss. There were no specific details and nothing about brain injuries.

 

if you are in a coma you have brain injury

[widala]

5 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

I’m really puzzled by some of this criticism of PJK and signed up just to say so, lol. The only real injury she had was a stab wound, and then she was in a coma for a month and presumably had excellent care while she was unconscious with the way EY was throwing money her way. A coma patient in real life would probably be more frail-looking, but this is a kdrama.

 

At the same time, EY was in a prison brawl where he was hit and stabbed, then beaten by two prison guards who were hitting him like they’d get a pay rise with each whack (I swear one guy had to catch his breath afterwards). But a month later, he was as hot as ever, even though you’d think he’d have some broken bones or internal damage or something.

 

I’m not saying PJK is beyond criticism, but I don’t get why she’s the only one being criticised for things that could just as easily apply to other characters.

 

I agree with you.

EY got beaten, drugged, almost buried alive, and got into a car accident but totally fine in the next scene, laughing and giving financial advice to the doctor that treat him. 

I don't count too much for this drama to stick close to reality.

Like you said, it's a kdrama, let's just enjoy the ride!

 

4 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

I came back to say something less grouchy (lol) which is that something I find interesting (and kind of cute) is PJK is, by her own admission, distant and reserved, while EY is much more open and outgoing. But while the show’s made a few hints at PJK having romantic feelings for EY, it’s been a lot more vague when it comes to how he feels about her. There’s been plenty of evidence that he cares deeply about her, but I think you can argue either way about whether any of it is romantic.

 

Just thought that was a fun contrast!

 

Yes!

It's pretty obvious in the farewell scene when she asked him not to go.

For EY, I think it's the fact that he didn't call PJK while still in contact with CEO Yoon is the proof that he has feelings for her. (I'm guessing it's the early days after he left before they lost contact altogether).

He probably didn't want to be tempted to return to SK when it's very dangerous for all of them.

But, I don't know... I'm writing fanfiction here (again) 

 

Sorry for the multiple quotes!

I sent my reply a few times because I thought it was failed at first...

 

How do we delete quotes anyway?

[widala]

Behind the scene 

 

 

 

 

[patternedsocks]

23 minutes ago, widala said:

I agree with you.

EY got beaten, drugged, almost buried alive, and got into a car accident but totally fine in the next scene, laughing and giving financial advice to the doctor that treat him. 

I don't count too much for this drama to stick close to reality.

Like you said, it's a kdrama, let's just enjoy the ride!

I totally forgot about that part! Hahaha. I really have been watching this lightheartedly and trying not to take it too seriously, so I’ll stick to the positives and won’t argue with anyone anymore!

 

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Yes!

It's pretty obvious in the farewell scene when she asked him not to go.

For EY, I think it's the fact that he didn't call PJK while still in contact with CEO Yoon is the proof that he has feelings for her. (I'm guessing it's the early days after he left before they lost contact altogether).

He probably didn't want to be tempted to return to SK when it's very dangerous for all of them.

But, I don't know... I'm writing fanfiction here (again) 

 

I love that as proof of his feelings for her! I hadn’t thought of it that way. I want to read your fanfiction, lol.

 

(Just backspacing outside the quote I don’t want seems to work for me, but maybe it’s different on different devices?)

[Shimmery-summer]

3 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

We don’t get any specifics about her injury, why she’s in a coma, or why the doctors don’t know if she’ll wake up, so while you may be right, the show itself doesn’t give us anything beyond “she’s in a coma” and leaves us to guess at everything else.

So? And also the drama says what happens,'Penetration wound on the shoulder, with severe blood loss.' And that 1 month is critical in her waking up, beyond that chances go down and at time of this convo she's 1 month in. How much more serious you want?

 

 

3 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

He was stabbed, beaten multiple times, put in solitary isolation, targeted for bad treatment by the warden, and still comes out looking great, too.

How any of that equates with a coma?

And he does look haggard and tired, unless that you want him to walk around in torn clothes to prove his state. He only looked better after bribing the officer. Also he was a fighter/gang member in the past who can fight and protect himself. 

 

 

3 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

should people who’ve been in hospital continue to wear drab clothing to show they’ve just been in hospital?

Not really but except that they don't look like they returned from a luxury healing trip. A professional actor knows how to look, after any specific situation and scenario to showcase that character, you have plenty of places in the whole show to parade around in fancy clothes.

 

3 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

why is there none of the same applied to EY?

Why should anyone? It's a viewer's choice to criticize what they want, it's an open forum for a reason to express your views freely and not to be gatekeeped by any xyz's fan. You want to criticize ey, do by all means without trying to attack posters who want to criticize some other character, it's not like any of us is running comparison competition, we are watching and sharing views.

[lila21]

6 hours ago, widala said:

I agree with you.

EY got beaten, drugged, almost buried alive, and got into a car accident but totally fine in the next scene, laughing and giving financial advice to the doctor that treat him. 

I don't count too much for this drama to stick close to reality.

Like you said, it's a kdrama, let's just enjoy the ride!

 

My POV. It is consistent with his character as the hero of the drama, and what viewers expect. He is someone who is winning although he gets beaten buried and what not. People whom he had helped in his past tend to help him back. He always has something in his playbook. Maybe viewers like myself expect more of the same from PJK.  The way I see her character, she feels guilt for her part in her mother's decision to kill herself, her actions are dictated by regrets. She is angry at herself and at Hwang. I would like for her to see that the way she can right the injustice done to her and her mother is to not let regrets get in the way of her actions. She at least should listen to Hong Hana and work with the rest of the team. Her character is stubborn and wants the way things done her way. EY's character loves people and they love him back, he built a team whom he works with, PJK is a loner who wants to work alone and wants things done her way. EY being part of her family. looks after her like he looks after people whom he considers his family I would hope PJK would think the same, she is not alone, this is not her fight alone, many people are involved and they are fighting together. Right now, Hwang his cohorts, his FIL and wife are not together and are fighting each other. I think this is the time for PJK to work with the team to redress the wrongs of the past.

[sadiesmith]

15 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

I totally forgot about that part! Hahaha. I really have been watching this lightheartedly and trying not to take it too seriously, so I’ll stick to the positives and won’t argue with anyone anymore!

 

I think it's best to watch this show lightheartedly, but I still enjoy reading the "arguments" from you all. As long as they are kept lighthearted, why not? Some of you have incredible insights. 

 

Speaking of ending, this Korean article compares Payback to Reborn Rich and suggests a better ending than RR.

https://m.newsen.com/news_view.php?uid=202302011341180810

 

'The youngest son of a conglomerate (aka Reborn Rich)'

 

Although it is difficult to compare it to satellite, 'Beopjeon', which succeeded in breaking through the double-digit ratings of home theater box office box office checks, is running on the popular road.

We analyzed the two successful revenge dramas and the common secrets of their popularity, Lee Sun-gyun and Song Joong-ki, who lead the revenge.

[patternedsocks]

17 hours ago, Shimmery-summer said:

Not really but except that they don't look like they returned from a luxury healing trip. A professional actor knows how to look, after any specific situation and scenario to showcase that character, you have plenty of places in the whole show to parade around in fancy clothes.

What do the actors have to do with it? They don’t decide their own outfits. 

 

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Why should anyone? It's a viewer's choice to criticize what they want, it's an open forum for a reason to express your views freely and not to be gatekeeped by any xyz's fan. You want to criticize ey, do by all means without trying to attack posters who want to criticize some other character, it's not like any of us is runningcomparison competition, we are watching and sharing views.

I am a fan of MCW, but you’ll notice I haven’t once said anything about anyone’s criticisms of MCW’s acting or PJK’s personality or role in the drama. I’m not “gatekeeping” and I certainly haven’t attacked anyone for their opinions. 

 

My point all along has been to highlight what I felt was an odd double standard where the one female lead is singled out and criticised for looking too good after her injuries, while there’s apparently no issue with the male lead looking just as good after his various druggings/extended beatings/stabbings. For some reason, the show has to be ultra-realistic with how PJK looks, but not with EY. 

 

If you don’t see an issue with that, that’s fine. Obviously none of us are changing our minds and we’re going in circles, so I’ll stop here. Thank you for the discussion. I hope you enjoy the rest of the show.

[Shimmery-summer]

1 hour ago, patternedsocks said:

What do the actors have to do with it? They don’t decide their own outfits. 

As my comment on her wardrobe was in passing and was more concerned with overall look and you chose to pick and choose the word wardrobe, I won't waste time arguing on it.

 

1 hour ago, patternedsocks said:

I’m not “gatekeeping” and I certainly haven’t attacked anyone for their opinions. 

Nopes that's gatekeeping what you are doing. Rather you are 'attempting' as it's clearly not working.

 

1 hour ago, patternedsocks said:

My point all along has been to highlight what I felt was an odd double standard where the one female lead is singled out and criticised for looking too good after her injuries, while there’s apparently no issue with the male lead looking just as good after his various druggings/extended beatings/stabbings. For some reason, the show has to be ultra-realistic with how PJK looks, but not with EY. 

 

And with this judgemental comment you refuse you were gatekeeping. How shallow of you to assume there are double standards that people are criticizing her appearance because she is a female, and the fact you used the word 'singled her out'. I won't bother engaging such judgemental, biased and intellectually dishonest comments. Will repeat for sensible folks only, it's a viewer's choice to criticize whichever character they want and they don't owe any explanations for that to anyone nor is it anyone's business to try and lecture them how the other character should also be criticized, that's not your place.

[lila21]

On 2/2/2023 at 3:29 AM, Shimmery-summer said:

Btw everything aside dear did you get chairman myung's lastest move. It was very confusing I didn't understand it. What does it mean banwoo fund isn't repurchasing it's own stock and why that news sent people into panic. That was a huge market crash, do you think it's possible in real world?

Ok in the financial world of stocks as in any market prices go down and up in accordance with supply and demand. For example if there was a storm in the orange growing states and therefore affected the harvests of oranges or the growing of oranges, the supply of oranges diminish and therefore the market price of oranges will be higher because the demand will be higher than the supply and vice versa if there is too much supply then the price goes lower in order for the stores to get rid of too much supply in other words the companies go public to sell the stocks in the market. Anyhow when companies buy back there stock, the supply of the stock is diminished in the market which makes the price go higher and those who sold will have sold with a gain and those who did not will be holding stocks that are valued higher. The ones who sold will have to pay tax on their gain but the ones who did not will not pay taxes and if the company pays dividend that is also the reward for those who held on to the stock. Going back to Banwoo fund it seems that the corporation is playing the shell game with its customers making them think that there is a some value in putting their money in the fund however it seems that Banwoo Fund does not have any assets because the crooks like Myung were operating the Banwoo fund were siphoning money for themselves. The people in other words who put their money into the fund were in a way the lenders or creditors and they were thinking that when it was time for them to ask for payment the fund will give back their money plus interest and gains but Banwoo fund was only a shell with no pea under it. It never had any assets/stocks or whatever in the first place. There was never anything to buy back. EY knew all these. This happens/happened in reality all over the world btw.

[sweetroad]

On 2/2/2023 at 2:18 PM, patternedsocks said:

I came back to say something less grouchy (lol) which is that something I find interesting (and kind of cute) is PJK is, by her own admission, distant and reserved, while EY is much more open and outgoing. But while the show’s made a few hints at PJK having romantic feelings for EY, it’s been a lot more vague when it comes to how he feels about her. There’s been plenty of evidence that he cares deeply about her, but I think you can argue either way about whether any of it is romantic.

 

Welcome @patternedsocks! Hope you keep giving us your insights.

 

Agree with you - I think if EY pursued PJK she'd be up for it. He seems to not have a felt need for romance, though. (Maybe she doesn't, either, but the fact that she asked him to stay in Korea was a bit hint for me.) I had hoped the show would develop a loveline between them, but the longer the they go without movement in that direction, the more I'm trying to let that go. Plus he was in jail...and they seem to have cut out the scene of her visiting him in prison.

[backstreetboysfan]

Here are the ratings for Episode 9! .

 

 

“Payback” Ratings Soar To All-Time High + “Kokdu: Season Of Deity” Rises For 3rd Episode

 

SBS’s “Payback” is on the rise!

 

On February 3, the revenge drama starring Lee Sun Gyun and Moon Chae Won climbed to its highest viewership ratings to date. According to Nielsen Korea, the latest episode of “Payback” scored an average nationwide rating of 11.3 percent, marking a new personal record for the series.

 

https://www.soompi.com/article/1565321wpp/payback-ratings-soar-to-all-time-high-kokdu-season-of-deity-rises-for-3rd-episode

[widala]

On 2/3/2023 at 5:31 AM, lila21 said:

My POV. It is consistent with his character as the hero of the drama, and what viewers expect. He is someone who is winning although he gets beaten buried and what not. People whom he had helped in his past tend to help him back. He always has something in his playbook. Maybe viewers like myself expect more of the same from PJK. 

 

And that's exactly what happened with her "miraculous" recovery from a coma.

 

Personally, I don't really expect a medical situation 100% accuracy from any drama/tv show.

 

So, she's up and about the day she woke up from a coma is her "superpower" as one of the main characters.

 

Just like JTC's luck where the cops just happened to be there when JTC recklessly followed the drug dealer and saved him from getting killed.

 

As for her character, I always think that Payback's big flaw is how they underutilized such a good actress Moon Chae Won and how underdeveloped PJK as a character is.

The later episodes is a bit better in my opinion. But just a bit.

 

17 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

My point all along has been to highlight what I felt was an odd double standard where the one female lead is singled out and criticised for looking too good after her injuries, while there’s apparently no issue with the male lead looking just as good after his various druggings/extended beatings/stabbings. For some reason, the show has to be ultra-realistic with how PJK looks, but not with EY. 

 

I totally understand where you're coming from.

The double standard for female characters and actresses has been happening all the time.

A behaviour that considered "cool" in a male character could make a female character be called all the bad names if she did the same.

Even a comment in MDL criticized MCW looks in Payback.

 

Maybe in this case, it is a genuine criticism towards a character.

But sometimes the misogyny is so internalised that people don't realise that they often hold women in unfair standards.

 

On to episode 9!

 

Spoiler

Oh no! Jinho died 

He did help to clear EY's name from the prison murder accusation.

So sad to see him go...

 

Love EY for profiting from Banwoo situation!

But EY and JTC relationship is strained because JTC found out about it.

 

Jang Tae Chun, please get off your high horse. Where do you think all the money that helped you get to this point coming from?

 

PJK is a badass as always and I'm really happy to see more of her in this episode.

We're also got many EY and PJK scenes! Yay!

 

Hwang is in a tight spot because Myung is cutting him lose.

This is probably why Hwang asked for EY's help (the kneeling scene).

 

Can't wait to see ep10!

 

 

[Nomorelisa]

18 hours ago, patternedsocks said:

What do the actors have to do with it? They don’t decide their own outfits. 

 

I am a fan of MCW, but you’ll notice I haven’t once said anything about anyone’s criticisms of MCW’s acting or PJK’s personality or role in the drama. I’m not “gatekeeping” and I certainly haven’t attacked anyone for their opinions. 

 

My point all along has been to highlight what I felt was an odd double standard where the one female lead is singled out and criticised for looking too good after her injuries, while there’s apparently no issue with the male lead looking just as good after his various druggings/extended beatings/stabbings. For some reason, the show has to be ultra-realistic with how PJK looks, but not with EY. 

 

If you don’t see an issue with that, that’s fine. Obviously none of us are changing our minds and we’re going in circles, so I’ll stop here. Thank you for the discussion. I hope you enjoy the rest of the show.

It's not the actors but the writers and PD that decide the scenes.  I doubt anyone is criticising the actors.  I too am a fan of MCW and I think she has great acting ability.

[lila21]

8 hours ago, widala said:

As for her character, I always think that Payback's big flaw is how they underutilized such a good actress Moon Chae Won and how underdeveloped PJK as a character is.

The later episodes is a bit better in my opinion. But just a bit.

 

Exactly!! one of the reasons I watched the drama is for Moon Chae Won and Lee Sun Kyun. I thought they were a power pairing. That is why I think viewers are unhappy of how her character is written. Much more is expected of her. One of my favorite fun revenge dramas is Lawyer's Lawyer. The reason I loved it because they had power stars but most of all both the male and female heros had attitude plus they fell in love  while in there revenge trope. Why would you put PJK in a coma when viewers expect her to be in revenge action? There is no connection of being in a coma to the story except to make her more a victim of Myung?  As you said she is under utilized. The time she was in coma could have been used to develop synchronicity between her and the rest of the team. What is she going to do about Hwang, the politicians who gave the recording back to Myung and return the honor to her mother's name?

[Shimmery-summer]

23 minutes ago, lila21 said:

Exactly!! one of the reasons I watched the drama is for Moon Chae Won and Lee Sun Kyun. I thought they were a power pairing. That is why I think viewers are unhappy of how her character is written. Much more is expected of her. One of my favorite fun revenge dramas is Lawyer's Lawyer. The reason I loved it because they had power stars but most of all both the male and female heros had attitude plus they fell in love  while in there revenge trope. Why would you put PJK in a coma when viewers expect her to be in revenge action?  As you said she is under utilized. The time she was in coma could have been used to develop synchronicity between her and the rest of the team. What is she going to do about Hwang, the politicians who gave the recording back to Myung and return the honor to her mother's name?

 

 

The drama is just two characters who are intelligent and running the show that is chairman myung and ey. Rest of the characters are just placed there on posters but their roles are quite insignificant. Nephew, pjk all are dumb characters managed by ey, they don't have smarts. Similarly, hwang just has good dressing but he is also dumb and managed by FIL or wife. Hwang was most disappointing for me as I was expecting lots of wits fight from him but he is just a dumb puppet. 3rd intelligent character is hedge fund ceo but has lil screen time. 4th somewhat intelligent character is nephew's assistant investigator. But actual drama is of Ey and chairman myung, they are the main leads which is kind of amusing as this isn't what we expected when we started the show. Did you finish ep 9? I am yet to catch up as I was watching interest of love. Thanks for your last reply, after reading it I want to rewatch ep 7 and 8 and then see them in the light of your comment to understand it, it was still hard for me lol. I am more embarassed I never knew that an announcement, a company has stopped repurchasing it's own stocks means something bad and that it's a common knowledge.