[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner

[kdramawriter]

35 minutes ago, pixelsticks said:

I'd love to take a class in cinematography and movie styling.  It is fascinating what has changed in terms of camera angles, positioning, steady vs realistic shaking, focus and zoom.  And to also see what may be "trendy" and fall in and out of favor with audiences. The power of the image along with the words, when it works, can make unforgettable stories.  I struggle with creating both.  

The best thing about the internet is that you don't even have to take a class to learn. I watch a ton of Cinefix, which is a fantastic Youtube channel precisely about what you're interested in: how pictures affect emotions, how place of the camera affects storytelling, how sometimes a color palette can determine the mood. I'm not even a a shill for Cinefix, I just love them that much. Start with this! 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

31 minutes ago, antoniaclamens said:

 

@40somethingahjumma thank you so much for episode 12 restrocpective... love it as always love what you write. BTW about Soo.. my mind understand everything you said... but my heart disagree... she protected what she wanted to protect? well maybe, she paid the price for it? yes indeed. i remember when i watched final episode for the first time i wanted so badly for her to pay the price in the way she actually did (dying alone and living in modern time in regrets...) by now i calmed down a little. As i said i understand that she wanted to protect many things but, was the way she did it the only way? why always take Wook, Jung and CR's side and not So? what about not telling lies to each other??? why not saying that she understood him when Queen Yoo died? why hurt him so much?????? what angry me the most is her reaction after CR's death. No, my heart is still in pain and can't understand Soo. But i'll try to think about what you say some more because i really want/need to be in good terms with Soo. I love her nonetheless

Because there was no other way. She had no power in the palace, she had become a targeted political liability. She was dying. If she had told him about the baby, he would have insisted that she stayed and that would have jeopardized the safety of the child and his political future. Alternatively he could have made her have an abortion. But she loved him too much for that. There was no co-existing with Yeon Hwa and she's the Queen... we know what she's like.

So was stubbornly loyal... but he was doing damage to the stability of his reign so in the end, she had to be the adult. She realised he couldn't have it all. As long as she was next to him, she would be his Achilles Heel. There would always be someone who would use her against him.

Su made herself the "bad guy". She caused So and the rest of us think she was leaving because she was tired of the palace and wanted to live the simple life with Jeong. Why? Because she wanted So to not be burdened by her, move on and become the King she was confident that he could be.

Why did she defend Uk and CR? Partly because there was still that spark of GHJ remaining, railing against draconian forms of punishment. but more likely she was trying to protect So, to protect his soul from falling completely into darkness. The whole point of him wanting to be King was to put an end to brothers killing brothers and yet he was now turning from that in a fit of rage.

She did pay the price of dying without the man she loved by her side, thinking that he hated her right to the bitter end. 

I'm not saying it's not tragic or "unfair" to some degree but it was the best she could do for her family given the circumstances. It certainly wasn't for herself that she did it all... she was dying anyway. Everything she did was to protect his legacy and their family.

[ShaiKeun]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:46 PM, Sharine Phinisia said:

The director only reject their gifts without even teeny bit explanation.

In my POV, he is  playing safe. Maybe, he looked at it as a bribe not as a gift.  That director !!#^%$#*&^###&*^!

[Sharine Phinisia]

21 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

What I really like about the ending is that it affirms that what they had together was real and meaningful even if it did end in tears. Even if she left too early and it became painful at the end, the few stolen moments that they shared together made it all worthwhile.

But at the end of the day, So couldn't have it all.

Such an existential drama.

The ending is pissing me big time but it is profound. I almost tear up again when someone point out in tumblr points out that the ending signify the start of Wang So's journey to search for Soo (as he always does) and someone in tumblr give the reason that cracked me up. More or less like this:

"Why the unsatisfying ending? Because along the way the writer was like 'oooh happy ending is unrealistic' like F*** YOU YOUR TRAVELLING IN TIME PLOT ISN'T EXACTLY REALISTIC EITHER" LOLOLOLLLL

[pixelsticks]

2 hours ago, kdramawriter said:

The best thing about the internet is that you don't even have to take a class to learn. I watch a ton of Cinefix, which is a fantastic Youtube channel precisely about what you're interested in: how pictures affect emotions, how place of the camera affects storytelling, how sometimes a color palette can determine the mood. I'm not even a a shill for Cinefix, I just love them that much. Start with this! 

 

I am starting to form a crush on you!  Thank you!!!  Off to watch!

 

2 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

Because there was no other way. She had no power in the palace, she had become a targeted political liability. She was dying. If she had told him about the baby, he would have insisted that she stayed and that would have jeopardized the safety of the child and his political future. Alternatively he could have made her have an abortion. But she loved him too much for that. There was no co-existing with Yeon Hwa and she's the Queen... we know what she's like.

So was stubbornly loyal... but he was doing damage to the stability of his reign so in the end, she had to be the adult. She realised he couldn't have it all. As long as she was next to him, she would be his Achilles Heel. There would always be someone who would use her against him.

Su made herself the "bad guy". She caused So and the rest of us think she was leaving because she was tired of the palace and wanted to live the simple life with Jeong. Why? Because she wanted So to not be burdened by her, move on and become the King she was confident that he could be.

Why did she defend Uk and CR? Partly because there was still that spark of GHJ remaining, railing against draconian forms of punishment. but more likely she was trying to protect So, to protect his soul from falling completely into darkness. The whole point of him wanting to be King was to put an end to brothers killing brothers and yet he was now turning from that in a fit of rage.

She did pay the price of dying without the man she loved by her side, thinking that he hated her right to the bitter end. 

I'm not saying it's not tragic or "unfair" to some degree but it was the best she could do for her family given the circumstances. It certainly wasn't for herself that she did it all... she was dying anyway. Everything she did was to protect his legacy and their family.

But how did she know Gwangjong could "handle it" (as quoting HaeSoo from even the first episode)?  How did she know he would be ok if she left and not go beserk and still kill Wook because he didn't get to have Soo?  Was it because she knew he was a good king from her "history" classes?   

And the letters?  Can anybody help me determine the motivation of the letters? If Gwangjong was to move on from her, why send him letters? To explain her thoughts and actions?  To tell him she did love him but could not live with him?  But with her knowing So...wouldn't that just motivate him to come get her?  

[40somethingahjumma]

3 hours ago, pixelsticks said:

But how did she know Gwangjong could "handle it" (as quoting HaeSoo from even the first episode)?  How did she know he would be ok if she left and not go beserk and still kill Wook because he didn't get to have Soo?  Was it because she knew he was a good king from her "history" classes?   

And the letters?  Can anybody help me determine the motivation of the letters? If Gwangjong was to move on from her, why send him letters? To explain her thoughts and actions?  To tell him she did love him but could not live with him?  But with her knowing So...wouldn't that just motivate him to come get her?  

But why wouldn't he "handle it"?  Would he sit around and mope because she's not around? During the time they separated for 2 years, he didn't exactly fall into a heap. He was quite prepared to throw her away then in his bid for the throne.

I don't see the point of killing Uk especially when he's not the one who married her in the end. By now Uk would be a non-issue I would have thought and there was Baek-A keeping tabs on everyone while keeping the peace.

As for the letters, she just wanted him to know before she died that she didn't hate him and that she didn't leave him because of that. She wanted him to not be in torment over it. She says so in the letter.

[40somethingahjumma]

3 hours ago, Sharine Phinisia said:

The ending is pissing me big time but it is profound. I almost tear up again when someone point out in tumblr points out that the ending signify the start of Wang So's journey to search for Soo (as he always does) and someone in tumblr give the reason that cracked me out. More or less like this:

"Why the unsatisfying ending? Because along the way the writer was like 'oooh happy ending is unrealistic' like F*** YOU YOUR TRAVELLING IN TIME PLOT ISN'T EXACTLY REALISTIC EITHER" LOLOLOLLLL

I realise that comment is a joke of course.  But I don't think it's about realism as much as it is about consistency. If Lady O can't be with the King, if Uk can't be with Su, if Baek-A and U-Hui can't be together and if So is to marry Yeon Hwa... then the show needs to be consistent. The show can't suddenly change course because it wants to fan service when it's been telling us that the fight over the throne corrupts and destroys.

[kdramawriter]

39 minutes ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I realise that comment is a joke of course.  But I don't think it's about realism as much as it is about consistency. If Lady O can't be with the King, if Uk can't be with Su, if Baek-A and U-Hui can't be together and if So is to marry Yeon Hwa... then the show needs to be consistent. The show can't suddenly change course because it wants to fan service when it's been telling us that the fight over the throne corrupts and destroys.

LMAO. Time traveling is the premise we have to accept in order to watch the show. The time travel proved to only really be important when we talk about destiny or about Hae Su's brining her twentieth century values to Wang So. Time travel is not a cart blanche for story telling. Within the show universe, there are themes that remain consistent: love does not survive the palace. And to be true to itself, the show cannot EVER show a happy ending in the palace. As an audience, we actually crave a kind of consistency in the story, to subvert our expectations and/or confirm what we already know. If Hae Su and Wang So got married and lived happily ever after in the palace, raising gigantic healthy babies (seriously, how big was that baby), then we're in the realm of fanfiction - that is a story that BENDS the rules of what's established. 

[ktcjdrama]

@40somethingahjumma @kdramawriter Just want to let you know that I really enjoy reading your insights and reviews after rewatch. Looking forward to more of them coming, although I'm still trying to back read on your older posts, coz lately I haven't been able to hang out at soompi as much as I want.

[Sharine Phinisia]

1 hour ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

I realise that comment is a joke of course.  But I don't think it's about realism as much as it is about consistency. If Lady O can't be with the King, if Uk can't be with Su, if Baek-A and U-Hui can't be together and if So is to marry Yeon Hwa... then the show needs to be consistent. The show can't suddenly change course because it wants to fan service when it's been telling us that the fight over the throne corrupts and destroys.

An ending that ignited scream, agony and got me all depressed for the entire month. An ending that make fanteam making rounds (even resorting to bribery) to the prod office... Is is possible that this drama had developed a cult following?  ofc the name would be 'Where is THAT cutscene?' 

[40somethingahjumma]

30 minutes ago, Sharine Phinisia said:

An ending that ignited scream, agony and got me all depressed for the entire month. An ending that make fanteam making rounds (even resorting to bribery) to the prod office... Is is possible that this drama had developed a cult following?  ofc the name would be 'Where is THAT cutscene?' 

But of course. A show that elicits that kind of reaction is always far more memorable. 

Just like the King who misses his chance of saying goodbye to the woman he loves because he's too proud and jealous to open the envelope, this is the rollercoaster ride that grabbed us by the throat, stuck a knife into our hearts, twisted it in and yanked out our guts.

Bah, happy endings... who needs them... 

 

[pinklicious389]

Me too ! I really hate the ending.. so muchhh hateee.. frustrated and depressed ! 

[wandaraiju]

On 1/12/2017 at 7:39 AM, 40somethingahjumma said:

I'm absolutely certain that the heartbreak at the end is quite intentional... that feeling of emptiness and yearning... is exactly how we should feel. So gained the whole world to change it but he lost everything that was important to him... I'm sure there's a lesson in it for all of us about the choices that we make.

dear madame, your reasoning is just feels so right! now i kind of accept his way to end this drama. his directing for the drama give beautiful n touching scene. this is what we need to respect the PD's bold ending decision. eventhough he know that the rating was already not too good, but he dare to choose the angst ending

[darker91]

 

[missmaudy]

16 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:

One of the most common comments I see among fans of the show is that the show elicits plenty of feels. There is a reason for that I believe.

The advantage of this visual-oriented approach aside from what you've said is that you're asked to feel a lot more intensely than what you would if you were told how you should feel. Images speak directly to the heart and allows your experience of life to help you interpret the scene and connect with the character.

It's a fascinating approach to character development. I loved it Tinker, Tailor, Soldier Spy. That director loved close-ups to the point of self-indulgence but it worked really well for a show about espionage where people wear masks all the time and it leaves you wondering who they are and what they're thinking.

I think there's a kind of realism to this ambiguity. I don't think we always know what we ourselves are thinking or feeling much less what others are thinking. And maybe it isn't just one thing that we're feeling and maybe it does take time for us to process. Feelings and thoughts can't always be put into words immediately. Maybe words are inadequate to the task.

The raincoat scene, the snow scenes, Jeong sitting by himself with the urn and Baek A bursts into the room, So rummaging through the unread letters, ripping through the first and then the second with Ji Mong looking on... Not a word... just the voice over of the letter. Just to name a few examples.

Wonderful stuff. 

@kdramawriter -- Amen! She's not given enough credit for being really heroic and when I typed that section up, I started tearing up myself. 

Lately I feel that I'm just writing apologias for Hae Su.

 

I really love you work ladies. I love reading your exchange of knowledge about this drama. 

Speaking of a team, I am Team Wang So only because I am convinced that he character was a masterpiece. I am in awe to the core because the brilliant interpretation and portrayal. Even in these 4 past of studying about LJG and having acquired knowledge about him like any veteran fan, I still see Wang So as Wang So & Not even an ounce of LJG

Re. the focus of the drama, I still see it as Wang So centric but I see both main characters as one team. Both of them made sacrifices of a lifetime to protect the people they love and their love for each other. And for Gwangjong being a man of great power & as you it comes with great responsibility too as Spiderman has once said . The sacrifice he made was necessary for greater good, for his kingdom & his people and at the same time for Hae So. 

 

I also think Gwangjong knew that HS was not from his era because when Jimong told him about it, though you can feel his sorrow & yearning yet he projected a gaze of acceptance. 

 

Though one thing that I've wished, if only HaeSo after the death of Lady were delivered in few dimensions, it could have been more epic. Eg instead of walking stiffly with her eyes so wide open, I thought if she could have held back her gaze a little bit so her eyes would appear more dull & as  an audience you can feel her melancholy. Anyway, she still did a good job esp in the ep 19 & 20. 

 

[pixelsticks]

My housemate sent me this link today.  A snarky comedic view of Scarlet Heart and it's effect on the viewer.  http://lux-astrorum.tumblr.com/post/152924967899/because-im-still-not-recovered-from-this-living

More at the link.  cr. Quo Ducit Lux?

[Sharine Phinisia]

BEWARE SPOILER.

 

So there is this new movie that everyone's been raving about, including me: La La Land.

When I watch this it feels like I finally get why some people here compared Kim Gyu Tae's way of directing to the Hollywood/American show. There are some similarities between La La Land and Moon Lovers:

1. Hae Soo has to choose between her happiness with So or letting So to fulfills his destiny (so as not to tamper with the history). So has to choose between changing  the world as a King or living modestly together with the love of his life (his motive changed over the course of his char development.)
In  a world that showers us with positivity and 'living your dream', La La Land presents the fact that a world of chasing your dream is ALSO a world full of pain. Basically, both the directors made sure that every action bears its own consequences. "You can't have it all."

2. Both directors never actually EXPLAINS; they never preach on the plot or what the audience supposed to think and feel. Only with gestures, sounds, cinematography, soundtrack, they give plenty of clues and let the audience fill in the blanks.

3. I know the ending is different; Moon Lovers opted for OPEN (no closure) ending while La La Land opted for BITTERSWEET ENDING. Still, both ending invoke feelings like, FEEL TRIP ALL THE WAY. 

   

 

  

   

[kdramawriter]

I'm watching episode 4 (the DF Director's Cut version in hopes of more scenes) 

Lots of fun symmetry in this episode. When HS runs after WS in the woods in Episode 2, now it's WS's turn to run after HS after seeing her in the same market where she saw him in Episode 2. @tinniet <- more parallels for you. 

It finally sunk in why the writer decided that Chae Ryung's punishment was being beaten to death. Chae Ryung's first beating at the hands of Yeon Hwa signified to Ha Jin the first inkling of how unfair the Goryeo world was. And indeed, by episode 18 when Chae Ryung is beaten to death, it is the same punishment that first showed HS the brutal truth, but this time it was about Gwangjong. So things have come full circle. It wasn't as gruesome as the BBJX steaming, but it fits with HS's awakening to the harshness of Goryeo. A beating that made her less innocent, and then the final beating which made her lose hope that she could survive in the palace. 

[violina]

Be still my poor heart..be still

[darker91]

Great action by JG: