[Drama 2013/2014] ♚ Empress Ki (기황후) ♚

[Guest ziimblu]

- About SN and her loyalty to motherland - 
   Yeah, i share the views of many of you in this thread, about her loyalty to Goryeo. (Thanks for sharing your thoughts)

    While she does love WY and thus, have done great and risky things for him, I see most parts of it done for the love of Goryeo, and in the service of Goryeo. 
     And it seems to me that SN's loyalty to her birthplace just keeps on growing and growing without chance of resentment sipping in (as opposed to others'/YB's blaming everything on failure of Goryeo to protect loved ones). 
      I am trying to recall when and at which point SN fell in love with WY.    I think there was no particular moment, but lots of turning points reinforcing - - those deeds, words & most esp. deep gazes of WY revealing undying hope and love for his people & country - - >> those irreversibly captured SN's heart & loyalty for WY.    
     But then again, I sense  it is almost all about the need to heal, and at least, LIVE WITH that crushing memory of her witnessing how her mother died, and  how much she didn't want any other child's heart to be broken the same way. 
     That she lost her father "thru treacherous words" of Yuan's crown prince who she protected (as favor to WY and her country too), all the more proved her right as to where her loyalty lies.  

[eunsuhae]

@larabn : I think DK lost his sniffing skills after being knocked out twice by WY :Dpoor child! he'll never know the truth about his birth 
EDIT : wait a minute! didn't we at some point ship ED & DK? :-Othis is wrong! abort mission! I repeat, abort mission! :-t

[Guest larabn]

@eunsuhae
that explains why he didn't sniff SN's blood under water )
does he have a birthmark too ... so ED will now see it and find out
oh I guess the sniffing could be that mark but poor boy it's gone now


EDIT: didn't someone ship ED and ET too
omo  so it's DK and ED
but it can't be when it's ET and ED ship too
which ship do you want out of these too .... they can't go together

[Guest hunterdd]

Ding Lin said: Since the romance of WY/SN is pretty much over, I would like to discuss with my biggest question for the drama since Day one~~~~~~   

Why did the production handle the love triangle this way?  They seem to promote TH/SN couple. I guess we did discuss this very topic earlier, but I still do not get it.  Especially, the beautiful back hug in Episode 23 has proved that JJM and HJW have very good chemistry as WY and SN!   Also, the production team is perfectly capable of producing beautiful scenes for WY and SN.  If we have been given this kind of scenes earlier, I am sure there will be a lot more WY/SN shippers. 
Why didn't?  Since Episode three, the scenes of WY and SN are rushed and not well directed.   It seemed to me that the production team did not want people to love WY/SN.  Why?  

I still could not find good answers!   What are your thoughts?  

As I grief for my beloved OTP, I feel like I need a good answer to have my inner peace !  

We may need to have a "WY-SN supporting group" for all heartbroken WY-SN shippers!!   

[pegster]

I seriously do not understand why so many people are constantly hoping that WY will eventually get the son and bring him back to Goryeo.  What makes WY a more suitable parent, or more deserving of raising the child, than SN?
Although it all happened in one episode, but do remember that it was SN who carried the child in her for 7 months (yes, do not bring up the timing issue again PLEASE!), risk her life to keep the child safe, and went through the pain and suffering (although it was a short 5 minutes) to deliver this child.  
Is it because of the whole 'Well no one told WY about the baby' thing?  Look at it this way, if WY was so concerned, why didn't he send someone back to Yuan sooner to check on SN and his gang.  When he fell off his horse, he mentioned that he hasn't heard from them in a while, only after he feels something is wrong does he send someone to check on them.
I said before, it makes no difference to me if he knows about the pregnancy or not.  I do believe that knowing about it would only put him into more pain, but again is to each their preference as to what you think is better for his character.
Do we consider the pain of not knowing you have a child greater then watching your child die?  SN had to go through the pain of 'watching' her child 'die' within hours after he was born.  Does no one have any consideration for this pain and suffering that a mother has to go through?
Like @chrissydiva said, this child is now the 'crown prince' of Yuan, even if TH finds out he's not his child, they won't be able to just send him back to Goryeo to WY.  It would probably be easier to kill the child then to let him leave the palace.  Even if TH/ED knows, they likely won't announce it to the public as that will put shame on the royal family.  With SN's influence over TH, I have no doubt she'll be able to keep the child safe in the palace, even without revealing he's her child.
@ziimblu what if like Tal Tal had said to SN, people don't change, but the situations change.  When SN gets all that new gain power over Yuan, do we think her view of how to save Goryeo will change?  I think is possible that she will want to take over Goryeo as her means of 'protecting' it.  Then it resolves the issue with 'distorting history' because SN will end up sending an army over to Goryeo.

[Guest [Deleted User]]

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[Guest Ding Lin]

@Hunterdd........
If they have given WY/SN enough screen time to develop their relationship, things would have been different.  
I know you do not like WY.  It is fair.  I sense it is about the same degree as I dislike TH !! Ha! Ha!  

I know many people can not wait to get rid of WY and move on with their beloved TT and TH.  I am just stubbornly in love with WY!!  And...... very proud!!!  YEAH!!! 





hunterdd said:

[Guest kiyokotsubasa]

That dialogue about loyalty between SN and TT will be very symbolic for the upcoming episodes. He told her that people don't betray, but time does. And in the end he'll be the one to betray his uncle (and his clan).
To me, TalTal always seemed to be a quite lonely character. He's originally a scholar, but following his uncle as a right hand warrior doesn't allow him to get the opportunity to discuss philosophy and books, and share opinons, especially that Baek An is a superstitious man (we saw it multiple times in the previous episodes). So having SN to talk to about those "scholar matters" was a change for him, i guess lol.
I'm so excited for episode 25 because our Baby Emperor TaHwan will be back in the game... The TH puppet no longer exists, so we'll get to see another side of TH (evil TH, evil SN... sounds cool). And WY will go to Yuan X_X :ar! 
I want ET's clan + YBS to die this way : Ending up beheaded (as traitors) in front of everyone and I want SN to be the last person to appear before them... And by the time they realize she's the mastermind behind everything... BAM, it'll be over. >Sorry... that was just evil me.:\">
************************Warning : This is not really a "spoiler", it's just to gain space

Do you guys know the song "Broken" by Seether ? 

I wanted you to know I love the way you laugh
I wanna hold you high and steal your pain away
I keep your photograph, I know it serves me well
I wanna hold you high and steal your pain

'Cause I'm broken when I'm open
And I don't feel like I am strong enough
'Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away

The worst is over now and we can breathe again
I wanna hold you high, you steal my pain away
There's so much left to learn, and no one left to fight
I wanna hold you high and steal your pain

'Cause I'm broken when I'm open
And I don't feel like I am strong enough
'Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away

The first verse could be for TH-SN and the second verse could be for SN-WY. The lyrics fit the plot and portray TH's feelings for SN + SN's feelings for WY (just replace the word photograph with handkerchief LOL =)) ). It'd be great if someone could make an MV with it, both ships will be happy O:) 

[Guest larabn]

 it's sad for all of them but would it be better for her who has suffered the loss of her child thinking he is dead to just hand him over to WY if TH can love him and be a great father to him?

I'm sad WY doesn't know about his child and may not know yes
but she is a mother who knows about her child and she was pregnant with him for 7 months
while WY didn't even know about her pregnancy at that time...he would have just known if she reached him
I'm not saying he is at fault but I'm explaining the different sides to this.... SN would know about her child too late anyway to fix it with WY .... so the solution here is not giving her child to WY and telling him about it while she suffers again for the loss of her child
cause lets face it .... the child will go to WY and no one will know he is SN's son then so seeing him will be very hard and the child will not know SN is his mother then too...the same problem we will face with WY but the difference here is SN knows while WY doesn't but is it a good thing she knows about her child while never being able to see him again? what I'm saying here it's not like SN already knows now about her child now and is hiding it on purpose from WY and telling Th to play daddy ... in this case I would say it's not fair she should tell him but after watching last ep I realized that the case is different and I thought of it from a different angle. she will only know of her child when WY is married, she is deep in the game and can't back out now whether she is an empress or a concubine still, she will be in trouble and who knows what will happen then to her child .... so the only way left here is to go with it and if TH accepts that child knowing he loves SN, at least that child will be with his mother who suffered his loss before and Th will be loving to him ...it's all a different circumstance here

[Guest Ding Lin]

It occurs to me that WY's marriage is pretty insignificant.  His marriage and wife will be short-lived. 

In Chinese tradition, when somebody committed a serious crime.  Not only the person was sentenced to death penalty, but also the extended family.  I guess after the falling of ET, the whole extended family of ET would be sentenced to death.  WY's wife would be included. 
If that was the case, WY would be sentenced to death as an in-law of ET.    I wonder if this is the conversation between WY and TH in Episode One about where TH said he spared WY's life because of SN. 

Basically, WY threw himself into a project which would eventually got himself killed. In a way, he decided to die with SN. 

[Guest Ding Lin]

@vu_hoa1983~~~~

WOW!  Nice analysis as always !  

[carmens]

hi everyone:-h
I fjust finished  to see ep 23 and my feelings are in free fall ..no chute
calling Earth calling EarthHouston we have a problem
here is a broken heart=((
This affects the eyesight - (teary-eyed)and sense of speech .. (. aphasia as they say)So as my dear emperor I can not talk from now on  so I'll try the sign language [-O<         =((  =>  :x                           
                               (  =>  )
[-O<
                 ~:>  =>  :bz
[-O<  
         [-X
X_X   :  X(   :-&   ~X(   >-)    >
8-> :     :x   :\">  :-*  \:D/    ><


                                         ^^       O:-)  
[-O    [-O<        [-O<    :x   [-O<    [-O<
>-
    
           ><
                       :-h
                                  =D>      =D>     =D>     =D>     =D> 

[wolanah]

Ding Lin said: It occurs to me that WY's marriage is pretty insignificant.  His marriage and wife will be short-lived. 

In Chinese tradition, when somebody committed a serious crime.  Not only the person was sentenced to death penalty, but also the extended family.  I guess after the falling of ET, the whole extended family of ET would be sentenced to death.  WY's wife would be included. 
If that was the case, WY would be sentenced to death as an in-law of ET.    I wonder if this is the conversation between WY and TH in Episode One about where TH said he spared WY's life because of SN. 

Basically, WY threw himself into a project which would eventually got himself killed. In a way, he decided to die with SN. 

[carmens]

did not come out too wellthe thing with the sign languagesorrywhat I wanted to say is: I pray I pray to disappear the tears and painand to show happinessand love for my king also.I hope everything ends well, the good guys to win and all be happy!!
I believe that as the son of SNyang has three stars as birthmarkand  SNyang will recognize him by this, the Emperor also has a birthmark ... a butterfly ...as that his father drew on the bloody vow...

:-h

[Guest Ding Lin]

As for the death sentence of the extended family of the crime, I have checked at the Wiki. For the most serious crime, the extended family for 9 generations goes up for 4 generations (to the great great grandfather) and down for 4 generations (to great great grandson).  

If you can read Chinese, here is the information

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%97%8F%E8%AA%85

[tessieroo]

@pegster - I think that comment was made strictly from a shipping standpoint with little regard to logistics, what's best for the child, who knows about his exsistance, how much pain SN went through or how qualified either of them are to be parents. It was probably said because
A) this person does not want TH raising WY's son (no matter how good he is to him) because they don't like anything about TH at all
they don't want the Goryeo prince being raised as the Yuan prince
You're right in that once he's named the Yuan Prince, I doubt there would be any way he could be "sent to WY". And I also doubt if TH knows or later learns about him - he would do anything either, it would shame the Royal family. I'm wondering how they'll handle Tana's lies once it comes out OR if ET & clan will be brought down by the Blood Vow and what Tana did will never be brought out in the open. 
@kiyokotsubasa - I got that feeling too! TT hasn't anyone around him up to his "intellectual level" to discuss things with until now. (LOL) He's a tiny bit of a snob but I don't care - I like him. 

[Guest suwan1430273820]

Ding Lin said: It occurs to me that WY's marriage is pretty insignificant.  His marriage and wife will be short-lived. 

In Chinese tradition, when somebody committed a serious crime.  Not only the person was sentenced to death penalty, but also the extended family.  I guess after the falling of ET, the whole extended family of ET would be sentenced to death.  WY's wife would be included. 
If that was the case, WY would be sentenced to death as an in-law of ET.    I wonder if this is the conversation between WY and TH in Episode One about where TH said he spared WY's life because of SN. 

Basically, WY threw himself into a project which would eventually got himself killed. In a way, he decided to die with SN. 

[wolanah]

I was just thinking about something :

Did anyone have noticed that TH & WY belong now (forcefully) to El Temur's Family who are the most powerfull, so for now El Temur is the center of the circle, but when SN will be the Empress, she will have all the power (if they are indeed following the history, Empress Ki had more power than TH) and thus will be the new center of the circle where TH & WY will gravitate. I don't know if i'm clear =)) =))

I think that the writers are using this schema

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[cherkell]

Has anyone posted the Hulu link for Episode 23 yet?  Sorry if I'm duplicating, but I'm doing this from my phone.  My best friend was just taken to ICU and I'm a little frazzled right now.

Not having a good day today.  Be back shortly.