Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kittyna]

So that outage was pretty weird - and I'm still a bit wary using this forum lest it crash again.  But that being said, let's go for something lighthearted today  

 

Cutie fanart

 

Throwback to Yong Pal behind the scenes - JW's mom made such a massive lunch for him and his staff; I wonder if she's ever done the same for Alice. By the way, watching it now, I think it's hilarious how he was talking to his livestream audience, then suddenly stopped with this huge gasp when he saw the food.  

 

Throwback to JW's first run as the male lead in Ghost - It's really great to see him reprising the role of Sam Wheat this time around. Back in 2013/2014, he was the maknae of the three actors who took turns playing the lead, and from what I've heard, he incorporated that into his characterization as well. So I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how he might act out a more mature version of the character now  

 

Good Doctor once again featured on a list of dramas about mental health - To be honest, while I am glad to see Good Doctor getting more recognition...I beg to disagree. I am aware that the actual academic debate surrounding this is still active (i.e. whether autism is a mental/psychiatric illness or something else), with pros and cons either way, but I personally think we need to be wary about calling it an illness at all - because "illness" implies that there is something wrong with how one's mind or body functions, and that's a slippery slope. So, when speaking of something like anxiety or depression or PTSD, a term like "illness" can be empowering: it suggests biological and environmental causes that are separate from a person's character, morals, etc., which has led to greater empathy on the part of the general public. But for autism, I think calling it a mental illness can inadvertently add to the stigma instead.

[kireeti2]

8 hours ago, kittyna said:

but I personally think we need to be wary about calling it an illness at all - because "illness" implies that there is something wrong with how one's mind or body functions, and that's a slippery slope. So, when speaking of something like anxiety or depression or PTSD, a term like "illness" can be empowering: it suggests biological and environmental causes that are separate from a person's character, morals, etc., which has led to greater empathy on the part of the general public. But for autism, I think calling it a mental illness can inadvertently add to the stigma instead.

This article takes your opinion one step further

8 hours ago, kittyna said:

then suddenly stopped with this huge gasp when he saw the food.  

Lol, Food and Joo won has special and inseparable bond It was pretty obvious in 1Day adn 2 Night, where he use to only concentrate on food once he starts eating

 

 

[kireeti2]

Fan made video of Ghost Musical

Even though Joo won had performed it before, I guess, female fans will enjoy this performance more than they  past performance , since he got buffed up.

P.S- Not trying to demean the musical performance, but trying to go with the popular opinion where female fans(majority) likes their favorite male actor with muscular body

 

[kittyna]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:24 AM, kireeti2 said:

Lol, Food and Joo won has special and inseparable bond It was pretty obvious in 1Day adn 2 Night, where he use to only concentrate on food once he starts eating

 

Yeah  

 

So, for anyone who wants to watch it again, here's the full mukbang video from Yong Pal.

 

On 7/27/2020 at 3:22 PM, kireeti2 said:

Even though Joo won had performed it before, I guess, female fans will enjoy this performance more than they  past performance , since he got buffed up.

P.S- Not trying to demean the musical performance, but trying to go with the popular opinion where female fans(majority) likes their favorite male actor with muscular body

 

Yeah, and I'm not one of them  I personally prefer someone with a leaner, more wiry build (i.e. not skinny, but not, like really bulging muscles), but that's just me.

 

I just want to see what JW will bring to the character a second time around, because he's definitely more experienced as an actor, and now has a more mature long-term relationship under his belt. So I think the overall feel of his performance and interpretation will be different this time. 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Sushimi
Do not quote emoji gifs, thanks

[kireeti2]

4 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Yeah, and I'm not one of them  I personally prefer someone with a leaner, more wiry build (i.e. not skinny, but not, like really bulging muscles), but that's just me.

 

I just want to see what JW will bring to the character a second time around, because he's definitely more experienced as an actor, and now has a more mature long-term relationship under his belt. So I think the overall feel of his performance and interpretation will be different this time. 

Yeah, but joo won was too skinny before the enlistments, like, we were only able to see visible change during Yong-pal and My sassy girl.Before that, he had a body of a teenager.

And coming to his maturity in performance, I will hold my verdict until I see his performance in "Alice", like, I don't think, I'll be able to see "Ghost Musical". Since, it is only available to Korean audience. But, in the recent V Live video, I didn't see any visible change of his personality, like he still with lot of "Aegyo" and does not the bad thing either, but I want to see his transformation in on-screen, like, I wish he could reach his full potential in acting. And even in the recent video in which he did for supporting of his senior's movie, he was like in his usual personality, like a bit shy and sort of like typical Joo wonie in variety show.

I really hope to see him on a variety show,since, it is on SBS, my best guess is that they might go to "RUNNING MAN" for the promotion of the drama. It will awesome to see him on a variety show with Kim Hee Seo, like, she is known for being awesome on variety shows, and also I think she'll help joo won to come out of his shell and give his best shot in the Variety show, since they both have sort of already spent good deal of time with each other they'll be comfortable with each other on such shows

[kittyna]

8 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

And coming to his maturity in performance, I will hold my verdict until I see his performance in "Alice", like, I don't think, I'll be able to see "Ghost Musical". Since, it is only available to Korean audience.

 

That is the one major drawback about JW doing musicals or theatre, because they are live performances and only available to those who could go to watch in person. So for international fans, a project like Ghost is somewhat bittersweet: on the one hand, we know that JW loves doing stage work, so we're all for him; but on the other hand, that could potentially also mean a hiatus from dramas or films (even though, as we saw during Joo Won's Life Log in 2014, he'd probably already start preparing for his next role behind-the-scenes).

 

10 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

But, in the recent V Live video, I didn't see any visible change of his personality, like he still with lot of "Aegyo" and does not the bad thing either, but I want to see his transformation in on-screen, like, I wish he could reach his full potential in acting. And even in the recent video in which he did for supporting of his senior's movie, he was like in his usual personality, like a bit shy and sort of like typical Joo wonie in variety show

 

I think that JW as an actor and JW as a person are completely distinct entities. We see that he's not afraid of playing roles with a dark side (Sweet Sixteen in particular shocked a lot of viewers), and we also know that it's not unheard of for actors to explore their own inner dark sides when acting. Even JW himself has admitted as such, saying that he channeled some of his real-life frustration into his performance as Kim Tae Hyun on Yong Pal. 

 

But when we see how he is in live broadcasts, variety shows, etc., it's like that dark side is absent. Maybe JW just does a great job compartmentalizing his good and bad sides, but it can also be that his characters' darker moods and actions stem purely from his imagination. 

 

By the way, just want to come back to the VLive mukbang video for a second - I was rewatching it, and I saw JW and his staff chatting about the eel in particular out of all the dishes that were there. So just a bit of context: in Korea, eel is seen as a good food for, let's just say, "men's health". Especially the tail.  And while I doubt that's exactly what JW and his staff meant when they were talking about "energy", there's no way Korean audiences wouldn't have made the mental connection.

 

Another instance of this same implication is in Nae Il's Cantabile, when Nae Il says specifically to Yoo Jin that she learned an eel recipe for when they study abroad together in Salzburg. The first time I watched it (not knowing this context), I was just like, "Aw...that's cute." But now I'm like, "I see what you did there, Seol Nae Il." 

 

There's an article here that talks more about how food in Korea is gendered, in case you're interested. Note, though, that although the article itself discusses things in a mature and responsible manner, it's got a rather clickbait-y and not entirely safe for work title (so...maybe not the sort of thing you want flashing on a tab on your browser. Just saying).

[kireeti2]

41 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Another instance of this same implication is in Nae Il's Cantabile, when Nae Il says specifically to Yoo Jin that she learned an eel recipe for when they study abroad together in Salzburg. The first time I watched it (not knowing this context), I was just like, "Aw...that's cute." But now I'm like, "I see what you did there, Seol Nae Il." 

Lol, you just shattered my perception about Naeil's image as an innocent girl. Now that you mentioned it, I am sort of thinking that Naeil was possibly more mature than Cha Yoon Ji when it comes to couple's thing

54 minutes ago, kittyna said:

There's an article here that talks more about how food in Korea is gendered, in case you're interested. Note, though, that although the article itself discusses things in a mature and responsible manner, it's got a rather clickbait-y and not entirely safe for work title (so...maybe not the sort of thing you want flashing on a tab on your browser. Just saying).

Interesting article, I never knew even food in Korea has ideologies of Masculinity and Patriarchy

I though most of the Food in Korea is generally about the type of food to eat according to the weather conditions, Health and Region in which they live in, it was the main reason why I am still watching 1Day and 2Nights. Like, there was a episode where Yoon-ah joined as replacement for Si-Kyung, in that episode the two teams were tasked to cook meal with Eel has their main dish with locally available ingredients, they did mentioned something about keeping men healthy but I didn't expect that it was referred to "stamina" in the bed

Spoiler

Jenna Park, a 26-year-old recent graduate in Seoul, said that her ex-boyfriend would tell her not to eat all of the eel when they went out for dinner together. “He said the tails, which are said to be the most powerful part of the eel, were better to be eaten by men like him.”     This part in the article made me laugh like hell

 

[kittyna]

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol, you just shattered my perception about Naeil's image as an innocent girl. Now that you mentioned it, I am sort of thinking that Naeil was possibly more mature than Cha Yoon Ji when it comes to couple's thing

 

I think, on a purely intellectual level, it's hard to tell who'd be more knowledgeable on the subject. On the one hand, Nae Il grew up with horses (her dad worked on a ranch), and generally speaking, children who spent a lot of time with animals on a farm or ranch aren't all that fazed about these things (since it's just normal biological behaviour). On the other hand, Yoo Jin's a city kid, but he also grew up in Europe where people are more open about discussing sexuality in general, so he's probably heard a thing or two as well.

 

However, I think that between the two of them, Nae Il's definitely more direct when it comes to broaching the subject. And, in my opinion (i.e. this is how I go about it in my fics, but your interpretation might be different), it's because she grew up in a very healthy loving family, where a couple sleeping together is just par for the course. Yoo Jin, conversely, would be far more conscious about the mental and emotional impacts of consummating a relationship (in a "once you've done it, you can't go back" sense) due to watching his own parents' marriage falling apart, so he would be more cautious around Nae Il, lest she end up rushing into something she might regret later.

 

(Potential spoilers for Seolleim in Salzburg ahead)

 

Spoiler

Basically, in my fanfic universe, Cha Yoo Jin's a honeymoon baby - meaning that his mom got pregnant almost immediately after marriage, and before his parents would ever really have had a chance to learn how to live with each other as a couple first. So, all of a sudden, his parents had to start rethinking their entire social, educational (going by his mom's age in Nae Il's Cantabile, she would still have been a university student), and career paths moving forward.

 

For a couple that's really committed and in sync with each other, that's fine; but for Yoo Jin's parents...not so much. Both of them, I think, wound up thinking of having a baby in terms of the things they'd lose along the way rather than the things they might gain - and that sense of having to give something up to start a family gradually built up into subconscious feelings of resentment and missing out until the plane crash finally brought them to light.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I though most of the Food in Korea is generally about the type of food to eat according to the weather conditions, Health and Region in which they live in, it was the main reason why I am still watching 1Day and 2Nights. Like, there was a episode where Yoon-ah joined as replacement for Si-Kyung, in that episode the two teams were tasked to cook meal with Eel has their main dish with locally available ingredients, they did mentioned something about keeping men healthy but I didn't expect that it was referred to "stamina" in the bed

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Jenna Park, a 26-year-old recent graduate in Seoul, said that her ex-boyfriend would tell her not to eat all of the eel when they went out for dinner together. “He said the tails, which are said to be the most powerful part of the eel, were better to be eaten by men like him.”     This part in the article made me laugh like hell

 

I figured it out implicitly, after watching enough scenes involving eating eels in K-dramas to know that there was something special about the tail part in particular. Things like fathers saving that bit for their adult sons and whatnot. And even if I didn't know the specifics, I do come from a background (Chinese) where there are similar ideas about certain foods being better or worse for different genders. I don't have any links to articles I can reference, but I often heard comments along those lines growing up. So the concept of food being gendered in Korean culture wasn't all that weird to me, to be honest.

[kireeti2]

58 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I think, on a purely intellectual level, it's hard to tell who'd be more knowledgeable on the subject. On the one hand, Nae Il grew up with horses (her dad worked on a ranch), and generally speaking, children who spent a lot of time with animals on a farm or ranch aren't all that fazed about these things (since it's just normal biological behaviour). On the other hand, Yoo Jin's a city kid, but he also grew up in Europe where people are more open about discussing sexuality in general, so he's probably heard a thing or two as well.

Interesting take, it almost felt like class division. Like, Cha Yoo Jin is from the upper class back-ground where discussing on such intimate topics openly is seen as uncultured and showing of emotions as some sort of weakness. Where as Naeil is from different back-ground altogether(At least that's what I have interpreted.  Even though Cha Yoo Jin was raised in Europe, but kids raised in abroad, especially from East are like always raised with a conservative mindset at home  by parents/guardians, due to the freedom they enjoy outside the home. Like, it's some sort of balancing thing, which parents use to keep kids in line)

Spoiler

58 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Basically, in my fanfic universe, Cha Yoo Jin's a honeymoon baby - meaning that his mom got pregnant almost immediately after marriage, and before his parents would ever really have had a chance to learn how to live with each other as a couple first. So, all of a sudden, his parents had to start rethinking their entire social, educational (going by his mom's age in Nae Il's Cantabile, she would still have been a university student), and career paths moving forward.

 

For a couple that's really committed and in sync with each other, that's fine; but for Yoo Jin's parents...not so much. Both of them, I think, wound up thinking of having a baby in terms of the things they'd lose along the way rather than the things they might gain - and that sense of having to give something up to start a family gradually built up into subconscious feelings of resentment and missing out until the plane crash finally brought them to light.

Now it make sense, I use to always think why did his mom left him with his uncle. Like, he was always giving her hard time whenever she was interested in his life, I guess she went on to live her life after Cha Yoo Jin was born, not like totally abandoning him, but like, spent less time with him.

 

58 minutes ago, kittyna said:

figured it out implicitly, after watching enough scenes involving eating eels in K-dramas to know that there was something special about the tail part in particular. Things like fathers saving that bit for their adult sons and whatnot. And even if I didn't know the specifics, I do come from a background (Chinese) where there are similar ideas about certain foods being better or worse for different genders. I don't have any links to articles I can reference, but I often heard comments along those lines growing up. So the concept of food being gendered in Korean culture wasn't all that weird to me, to be honest.

I guess, now such kind of gender segregated food is not relevant anymore, at least not among youngsters of age group 20- 35. At least that's what the article said and it sort of have  collaborate with the evidence like historic low of fertility rate and marriage. I guess dealing  with issues like job uncertainty and increasing standard of living, does make having a baby least of their priority

Spoiler

While we are on the subject of marriage and gender thing, recently I read this article about "Arranged marriage" in South Asia, due to the recent series of "Indian mathc making " reality show on Netflix. I read an interesting take on Chinese Arranged Marriage process also, not like in detail but a glimpse of what was the status of women before Mao's cultural revolution and after the culture revolution, turns out it was sort of good thing for women, since after the enactment of Marriage law in china, "“objects of their father’s commercial transactions or their husband’s dominions" (Line from the article).  Although, ideological I sort of oppose this cultural revolution thing in China, I cannot ignore these sort of progressive changes which it brought to Chinese citizens.

https://indianexpress.com/article/research/from-manusmriti-to-indian-matchmaking-tracing-the-roots-of-arranged-marriages-6521518/

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170804-why-people-arent-getting-married-in-china

 

 

 

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Interesting take, it almost felt like class division. Like, Cha Yoo Jin is from the upper class back-ground where discussing on such intimate topics openly is seen as uncultured and showing of emotions as some sort of weakness. Where as Naeil is from different back-ground altogether(At least that's what I have interpreted.  Even though Cha Yoo Jin was raised in Europe, but kids raised in abroad, especially from East are like always raised with a conservative mindset at home  by parents/guardians, due to the freedom they enjoy outside the home. Like, it's some sort of balancing thing, which parents use to keep kids in line)

 

Probably, yeah - I do get the sense that Yoo Jin's more conservative slant may come from his father in particular, since Professor Stresemann initially refuses to teach him because "You remind me of the person I hate the most" and the only real encounter they'd had prior to that point was when Yoo Jin (rightfully) accused Stresemann of being a pervert. It took hearing Yoo Jin's full name for Stresemann to fully make the connection that he was Cha Dong Woo's son, but by that point, he'd already sensed that something about Yoo Jin's personality and values clashed strongly with his own.

 

(A quick note on how this factors into my characterizations for my fics)

 

Spoiler

In Seolleim in Salzburg, I go with an interpretation that Cha Dong Woo, Yang Sun Young, and Franz Stresemann already knew each other in Europe when Yoo Jin was really little (like 3-5 years old sort of little). As far as a professional working relationship was concerned, things were okay - personally, I think Cha Dong Woo would have liked Sebastian Viera more, but he'd be fine with, say, playing a piano concerto with Stresemann as conductor or something. However, when it comes to personal matters...ooh, boy. Given Stresemann's reputation as a drunkard and a womanizer, Cha Dong Woo would've definitely had reservations about letting Stresemann anywhere near his family - especially Yoo Jin, who was still a young and impressionable child.

 

It's all explained in more detail in my fic "Seollal, Seollebal, Seolleim". In hindsight, the actual execution/writing in this fic is rather cringe - but the events in the backstory are still what I have in mind for the characters.

 

And Yoo Jin's take on how his values were shaped by his father appears in my fic "Hats Off, Gentlemen, for Meister RaRo!".

 

However, I should point out that for a good chunk of Western European history, it was something of an open secret that upper-class men were sexually active prior to marriage. There was a clear double standard between what was considered appropriate for young men and young women: for women, it was a definite "No"; but for men, it was assumed that it'd happen anyway and their elders would turn a blind eye provided they kept their philandering to lower-class women, didn't get anyone pregnant or contract an STD, etc.

 

That being said, though, I think Yoo Jin's own father wouldn't have thought that way. I do think he felt that classical music, being something of an older art form, should be about cultivating self-discipline and inner strength: free from the hedonism that's now more commonly associated with pop culture. (Only associated, though: the classical music world has had to contend with its own MeToo movement in recent years.) And despite the fact that he disagrees with his father's teachings re: showing emotion, I do think Yoo Jin takes the self-discipline part of it to heart.

 

Spoiler

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Now it make sense, I use to always think why did his mom left him with his uncle. Like, he was always giving her hard time whenever she was interested in his life, I guess she went on to live her life after Cha Yoo Jin was born, not like totally abandoning him, but like, spent less time with him.

 

That works - but is also different from how things played out in my head. Personally, I still imagined Yoo Jin's mother to be his primary caregiver prior to the plane crash and subsequent divorce, but that she took a job in New York and lived there for Yoo Jin's teenage and early adult years. Because I doubt he's particularly close with his uncle either - hard to think an uncle who knows him well would try to get him to give up music to go into business instead  

 

Instead, I personally think Yoo Jin's main parental figure and confidante during that time period was Song Mi Na, who, as his mother's best friend, probably kept a close eye on him on her behalf. We see in the drama, for instance, that Yoo Jin's actually quite open to telling Song Mi Na what he really thinks or feels about things, and Mi Na also ribs Yang Sun Young for constantly asking her for intel rather than simply going to Yoo Jin himself.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

At least that's what the article said and it sort of have  collaborate with the evidence like historic low of fertility rate and marriage. I guess dealing  with issues like job uncertainty and increasing standard of living, does make having a baby least of their priority

 

Not to mention that in some more conservative circles in East Asia (which includes a good deal of higher administration/management in companies by virtue of age, years of experience, etc.) the expectation is that women either should or would quit their jobs after they have kids. It's one of the grievances that's been brought up by feminists in Japan and Korea: that women should be able to have both a career and a family without feeling social pressure to just choose one.

[kireeti2]

11 hours ago, kittyna said:

That works - but is also different from how things played out in my head. Personally, I still imagined Yoo Jin's mother to be his primary caregiver prior to the plane crash and subsequent divorce, but that she took a job in New York and lived there for Yoo Jin's teenage and early adult years. Because I doubt he's particularly close with his uncle either - hard to think an uncle who knows him well would try to get him to give up music to go into business instead  

 

Instead, I personally think Yoo Jin's main parental figure and confidante during that time period was Song Mi Na, who, as his mother's best friend, probably kept a close eye on him on her behalf. We see in the drama, for instance, that Yoo Jin's actually quite open to telling Song Mi Na what he really thinks or feels about things, and Mi Na also ribs Yang Sun Young for constantly asking her for intel rather than simply going to Yoo Jin himself.

I think the series writers did a poor job in explaining dynamics of adults and their relation with Cha Yoo Jin and with themselves. In Japanese version they didn't even bother to bring-up about the parents of male lead, it was mostly centered around female lead and music. In the Chinese version it was articulated in an orderly manner, like I was able to understand their relationship with the help of one episode at a time. But in Naeil' cantabile, they sort of fumbled it, probably because they had less episodes and the writers sort of tried to squeeze everything in one scene, like the scene where Cha Yoo Jin's mom was like pissed-off that her ex-Husband is going to attend Cha Yoo Jin's concert, but they failed to establish why she is upset with him, since we only know that Chaa Yoo Jin is afraid of his father and craves for his approval, but I never understood what made them get separated in first place,like, no background stories or flash backs of any of the adults around the male lead which sort of made me disconnected with the series and maybe this is the reason why I like the Chinese version, like they had let nothing to fans imagination, everyone has a closure. I guess, only upside of the Naeil's  Cantabile butchered story is that I got to read lot of a fan Fictions

[kittyna]

55 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

I think the series writers did a poor job in explaining dynamics of adults and their relation with Cha Yoo Jin and with themselves.

 

55 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

I guess, only upside of the Naeil's  Cantabile butchered story is that I got to read lot of a fan Fictions

 

There is a lot left open to interpretation in Nae Il's Cantabile, which is (as you've pointed out) partially what makes it appealing for my imagination. However, there are a number of small details here and there that, together, provide something of a jumping-off point.

 

Case in point:

 

55 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

like the scene where Cha Yoo Jin's mom was like pissed-off that her ex-Husband is going to attend Cha Yoo Jin's concert, but they failed to establish why she is upset with him, since we only know that Chaa Yoo Jin is afraid of his father and craves for his approval, but I never understood what made them get separated in first place,like, no background stories or flash backs of any of the adults around the male lead

 

I do think the drama tries to build up to something far bigger than what actually happens, as though Cha Dong Woo is some sort of shadowy villain that everyone's afraid of. He's not - I actually think, all things considered, that he's quite human.

 

But that being said, most of what I know comes from Episode 11. There's the scene inside the dressing room, which, by the way, I think is pretty well-executed; you get the sense that this is the sort of half-conversation-half-argument that Cha Yoo Jin and his father had in the past. However, where Yoo Jin's mother comes into all this isn't really revealed until after the concert, when she finally catches up to and confronts her ex-husband outside the concert hall.

 

So let me lay out what I gleaned from these two scenes so far:

 

In short: the divorce is linked disagreements on how best to deal with Yoo Jin's PTSD. So we see that Cha Dong Woo initially thought that just succeeding to get Yoo Jin onto a plane would work (it didn't - in fact, that triggered such a massive anxiety attack that mini-Yoo Jin passed out). And it's also implied that Yang Sun Young thought just stepping back and giving Yoo Jin time to get over the trauma on his own would work, which Cha Dong Woo insinuates was just sweeping the situation under the rug ("You just left him alone because he was crying and getting scared?").

 

Those disagreements, however, are tiny compared to the final breaking point: Cha Dong Woo's suggestion that they should send Yoo Jin to a psychiatric hospital. He mentions that explicitly in the dressing room scene ("I should have ignored your mother's advice and forced you into a hospital" - that's tough hearing from your own parent as an adult...can you imagine a child hearing that? Yeesh!), and hints at it a second time in the scene after the concert ("We should have gone with shock therapy if it was necessary."). Whether this approach would have helped is up for debate, but the point is that Yang Sun Young vehemently disagreed and I personally think that's when things fell apart beyond repair for them.

 

However, that being said, going from Sun Young's comments throughout the drama, and that one flashback Yoo Jin has in Episode 10, the PTSD was only the final straw for what appears to be an already failing relationship. She mentions several times to Song Mi Na that Cha Dong Woo seemed to expect absolute perfection from Yoo Jin, and that his acknowledgment (not even love, just acknowledgment) was contingent on whether Yoo Jin could get first place. So I think there was a slow but steady buildup of resentment on Sun Young's part before it all burst after the plane crash.

[kireeti2]

57 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I do think the drama tries to build up to something far bigger than what actually happens, as though Cha Dong Woo is some sort of shadowy villain that everyone's afraid of. He's not - I actually think, all things considered, that he's quite human.

 

But that being said, most of what I know comes from Episode 11. There's the scene inside the dressing room, which, by the way, I think is pretty well-executed; you get the sense that this is the sort of half-conversation-half-argument that Cha Yoo Jin and his father had in the past. However, where Yoo Jin's mother comes into all this isn't really revealed until after the concert, when she finally catches up to and confronts her ex-husband outside the concert hall.

 

So let me lay out what I gleaned from these two scenes so far:

 

In short: the divorce is linked disagreements on how best to deal with Yoo Jin's PTSD. So we see that Cha Dong Woo initially thought that just succeeding to get Yoo Jin onto a plane would work (it didn't - in fact, that triggered such a massive anxiety attack that mini-Yoo Jin passed out). And it's also implied that Yang Sun Young thought just stepping back and giving Yoo Jin time to get over the trauma on his own would work, which Cha Dong Woo insinuates was just sweeping the situation under the rug ("You just left him alone because he was crying and getting scared?").

 

Those disagreements, however, are tiny compared to the final breaking point: Cha Dong Woo's suggestion that they should send Yoo Jin to a psychiatric hospital. He mentions that explicitly in the dressing room scene ("I should have ignored your mother's advice and forced you into a hospital" - that's tough hearing from your own parent as an adult...can you imagine a child hearing that? Yeesh!), and hints at it a second time in the scene after the concert ("We should have gone with shock therapy if it was necessary."). Whether this approach would have helped is up for debate, but the point is that Yang Sun Young vehemently disagreed and I personally think that's when things fell apart beyond repair for them.

 

However, that being said, going from Sun Young's comments throughout the drama, and that one flashback Yoo Jin has in Episode 10, the PTSD was only the final straw for what appears to be an already failing relationship. She mentions several times to Song Mi Na that Cha Dong Woo seemed to expect absolute perfection from Yoo Jin, and that his acknowledgment (not even love, just acknowledgment) was contingent on whether Yoo Jin could get first place. So I think there was a slow but steady buildup of resentment on Sun Young's part before it all burst after the plane crash.

Thanks for elaborating about their divorce. It's funny that I forgot the reason for their divorce was because of the difference in approach about treating Cha Yoo Jin's PTSD, but I always assumed that it was because of his fathers self-centered and selfish nature which led to their divorce. And he sort of sacrificed his personal life to stay ahead in the music field. He also gave the same advice to Cha Yoo Jin and live like him, I am glad he decided against it and said clearly that he'll not live like him. But, I would have loved to see some sort of reconciliation between him and his wife, not like getting back together, at least like a moment where they see Cha Yoo jin and Nae-il, like,they are glad that their  son did not end up like them. The series writers tried to show that his only existence was to help Nae-il to participate in competition, which she was denied because of the most silly error that I have ever seen, like how can you not let a person to participate in the competition just because of a name error, it was not like a mistake in identity, which would have been more believable

[kittyna]

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

It's funny that I forgot the reason for their divorce was because of the difference in approach about treating Cha Yoo Jin's PTSD, but I always assumed that it was because of his fathers self-centered and selfish nature which led to their divorce. And he sort of sacrificed his personal life to stay ahead in the music field.

 

His father's personality flaws would be the underlying (read: actual) cause, but the plane crash and Yoo Jin's PTSD formed the catalyst. 

 

If nothing else, I think Yoo Jin's parents had opposing priorities, so it was always going to be difficult to make things work between them.

 

(Some more Seolleim in Salzburg universe stuff ahead)

 

Spoiler

The way I personally see it, Yoo Jin's mother had to give up her career (either voluntarily or at her husband's coercion) in order to raise him - especially since the family moved to Europe and settled there for a number of years. However, on the flip side, Yoo Jin's father prioritized his career over his family; while that's understandable given what life is actually like for a solo concert pianist (i.e. lots of travel, needing to work constantly to keep up a steady income, etc.), I doubt that Yang Sun Young would have taken that well. She might have been fine outwardly, but under the surface, she's headstrong enough of a woman to find the expectation that she should be the only one to make sacrifices a tough one to swallow.

 

In the grand scheme of things, if there was a warm family dynamic at home at the times when Cha Dong Woo wasn't performing, maybe that could compensate for some of the loss Sun Young would have felt. Except that that didn't happen. I don't think Cha Dong Woo had any malicious intent in any of this, but he's just...not a warm or affectionate person to begin with, so he remains cool and distant from his family even when he is around; I imagine he's the sort of father who'd ask how the kid(s) are doing at school, and then just leave it at that.

 

And for better or worse, there are things that mini-Yoo Jin would do that are normal for any small child (crying, making noise or running around, having the occasional lazy day as even the most hardworking kids would do, making mistakes while learning, etc.) that his father wouldn't take well, given his personality. So, for example, if little Yoo Jin started to cry about something (maybe he's sad or hurt or scared), his father might actually snap at him to "shut up", followed by an admonishment that "boys shouldn't cry". Or he might scold Yoo Jin over mistakes made in his piano or violin lessons, even if he's already doing his best and the new material's just hard.

 

One more thing I can add that's actually from the original drama is that Yoo Jin seems to have taken after his father in terms of his own personal standards. He jokes with his mom that he always kept his apartment clean because he grew up "with a mother who hates cleaning", but I think it might also be a sign that when he has to choose between which parent's standards to follow, Yoo Jin will still gravitate towards his father's.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

The series writers tried to show that his only existence was to help Nae-il to participate in competition, which she was denied because of the most silly error that I have ever seen, like how can you not let a person to participate in the competition just because of a name error, it was not like a mistake in identity, which would have been more believable

 

That error might sound silly, but it's the sort of thing that can actually happen - like, if you have to bring multiple pieces of ID to an exam and they don't match up. It's actually even more likely today than it was in 2014, because so much is based on digital identities, account/social security numbers, etc. One letter off, and the computers scanning and checking the IDs would miss the match.

 

Of course, I don't think anyone has an actual problem with letting Nae Il compete given that she's clearly the person in the photograph despite the different spellings, but it's one of those weird slippery slopes legally where once you make an exception for one person, others might try to take advantage. To be honest, I don't know how likely it is that someone would attempt to fraudulently enter a piano competition, but it has happened at least once in the recording industry - so, for something like a major international competition where there is a lot at stake, I can see them erring on the side of caution. And because they can't vouch for who Cha Yoo Jin was either (again, legally, for all they knew, he could be an accomplice to a fraud), they needed a third party they could trust (Cha Dong Woo) to formally give his approval for Nae Il's entry.

 

In the grand scheme of things, I found the result of the competition that Nae Il did in Korea (i.e. the blank first place) to be less credible than this hang-up over her ID.

 

By the way, I first learned about those fraudulent recordings from this novel here. I initially thought it was fiction, because it does sound far-fetched, but while preparing this response, I discovered that it was inspired by real events. So there you go.

[kireeti2]

First script reading of "ALICE"

I might add joo won looks very different with this hairstyle, like a totally different person with classy look

[kireeti2]

And the promotion for the "Alice" drama has begun. I was smiling throughout the video, the casting for the drama  is perfect, I hope everyone gave their best performance for the drama, I am excited for the drama and can barely wait

Now Coming to analysis of the script reading, I guess, that drama has all the elements of high rating drama,like good comedy, action scenes, heartwarming moments, intense confrontations and suspense, and I really wish that Alice to get ratings between 15% - to 20%, since the dramas of Joo won's peers went south and were not able to at least garner 10% viewership, despite their stardom and international fan base. But, seeing the dramas like "Dr. Romantic 2 (27%)and Hot Stove League (19%)" achieve more than 15% viewership gives me hope that if the drama has a decent story backed with good writers, then any drama can achieve more than 15% viewership in the current climate where even the so called Hallyu star's dramas are not able to maintain 10%+ ratings continuously, recent drama being "Backstreet Rookie", where it sort of tried all type of pop culture reference, cameos, but was not able go past 10% viewership till now, which proves that drama needs solid story and serious writing to garner viewership.

 

And also, I would like ship Joo won with Lee Da-In. I know, it's not drama which is based on Love theme and there will be few scenes where we can ship or at least feel like two characters to fall in love. But, it's been long time since I have shipped Joo won's character. And, going with the story line it would hard to even think that Kim Hee-Seo character to have a  love angle with joo won's character, and that leaves us with Yeon Woo and Lee Da-In, but I don't really want to ship Joo won with Yeon Woo. For reasons like, she is sort of too young and in real life I don't see joo won ending up with a woman who is that young, and also, I think Joo won treated her like a Junior- cum- Little sister so it is hard for me to ship him with her. And in the released  two teasers we sort of  can see that Joo won's  interaction is more with Lee Da-In's character , so I think  they would share a platonic relationship, sort of like they like each other but don't want to take the relationship to next level. And also, I would like to clarify that my shipping is confined  to drama and not in real life, because that would be toxic

[kireeti2]

Here's  the detail description of Joo won's character. His main defect is "Apathy", it has something to do with time travel

I was disappointed that "Jeong Man-Sik" was not shown in script reading video, I guess he has a minor role to play in the drama. Or worse he is not in the drama. I always find his off screen interaction with Joo won better than on-screen and behind the scenes with him would be funny as hell. Even Hwang Seung Eon was also not shown in the video, so I guess, there is also a possibility that Man-sik's character was not there in that script reading session

 

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And the promotion for the "Alice" drama has begun. I was smiling throughout the video, the casting for the drama  is perfect, I hope everyone gave their best performance for the drama, I am excited for the drama and can barely wait

 

Okay, the video's not working for me, but if you were trying to share the script-reading video, I was able to find it elsewhere eventually:

 

 

I think I'm also excited for the supporting cast - there appear to be a good number of solid veteran actors here as well  

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Now Coming to analysis of the script reading, I guess, that drama has all the elements of high rating drama,like good comedy, action scenes, heartwarming moments, intense confrontations and suspense, and I really wish that Alice to get ratings between 15% - to 20%, since the dramas of Joo won's peers went south and were not able to at least garner 10% viewership, despite their stardom and international fan base. But, seeing the dramas like "Dr. Romantic 2 (27%)and Hot Stove League (19%)" achieve more than 15% viewership gives me hope that if the drama has a decent story backed with good writers, then any drama can achieve more than 15% viewership in the current climate where even the so called Hallyu star's dramas are not able to maintain 10%+ ratings continuously, recent drama being "Backstreet Rookie", where it sort of tried all type of pop culture reference, cameos, but was not able go past 10% viewership till now, which proves that drama needs solid story and serious writing to garner viewership.

 

I think that what is working in Alice's favour right now is that it's somewhat outside of the box. To be honest, I was a bit wary about time-travel as a narrative trope, since time-travel, reincarnation storylines, parallel universe storylines, etc. have all been...kind of used up by now? Like, it's starting to feel more like a cliché or trend than an innovative concept. But this whole "possible doppelganger of JW's mother - or is she actually his mother???" bit is different - at least it's not a "first love" doppelganger, because that'd really be cliché.

 

(I brought up the "is she actually his mother???" bit because I think it's still not entirely impossible - like, what if she is a time-traveler and the point in the present when she'd go back in time hasn't happened yet, so JW's got to protect her now to make sure that the past timeline doesn't get messed up?)

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And also, I would like ship Joo won with Lee Da-In. I know, it's not drama which is based on Love theme and there will be few scenes where we can ship or at least feel like two characters to fall in love. But, it's been long time since I have shipped Joo won's character.

 

I don't really think romance is gonna be a major aspect of this, but it's hard to say. Given Park Jin Gyeom's condition, I think that either him developing romantic feelings for someone or one of the female characters harbouring feelings for him is...not impossible, but also not likely, either.

 

Personally, I'm all for platonic/friendship/colleague stories more than romance in general, though.

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

(I brought up the "is she actually his mother???" bit because I think it's still not entirely impossible - like, what if she is a time-traveler and the point in the present when she'd go back in time hasn't happened yet, so JW's got to protect her now to make sure that the past timeline doesn't get messed up?)

 

Yeah, it sort of makes sense and confusing at the same time 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

 

I don't really think romance is gonna be a major aspect of this, but it's hard to say. Given Park Jin Gyeom's condition, I think that either him developing romantic feelings for someone or one of the female characters harbouring feelings for him is...not impossible, but also not likely, either.

 

Personally, I'm all for platonic/friendship/colleague stories more than romance in general, though.

I didn't really mean like routine k-drama love story, like, sudden kisses and back hugs. I was sort of expecting that their relationship will be like relationship of main leads of "Stranger" k-drama.

Here's the synopsis of Lee Da-In character

[kittyna]

7 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Here's  the detail description of Joo won's character. His main defect is "Apathy", it has something to do with time travel

 

I definitely think the concept of having a clinical diagnosis of "apathy" from an early age is unusual - like, what would be the biological or environmental causes of that? Is it an actual inability to experience or feel emotion, or (similar to some forms of autism spectrum disorder) difficulty in articulating or expressing them while still being able to feel?

 

If it is the former - i.e., Park Jin Gyeom is literally physically or mentally incapable of emotion - then I can see how that could be a cause of bullying or ostracization when he's younger. I can imagine kids reaching the wrong conclusion and thinking he's a psychopath (for which a lack of empathy towards others is a major indicator).

 

However, given what we see of Jin Gyeom's reactions to his mother's death and his dogged determination to catch the murderer...I think it's more likely the latter, to be honest.

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

I was sort of expecting that their relationship will be like relationship of main leads of "Stranger" k-drama.

 

Full disclosure: I haven't watched Stranger yet, so I actually don't know what sort of dynamic you're referring to. Would you mind elaborating, please?