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1 hour ago, taeunfighting said:
I have a question about the preview for ep 47-48. Can someone tell me if ZM and XX's conversation together at Shaolin was in the novel or in prior adaptations? Or is it another deviation in this version?? For some reason, I do not recall that part where XX says to ZM "No wonder WJ only has you in his heart. I take back the things I said to you in past". Sorry if it was already discussed...I'm trying to catch up.
I think it's added. After XX's arc in Shaolin he didn't appear in the story again. In that scene he wore monk clothes, and all the fighting at Shaolin must have concluded otherwise they wouldn't be sitting in a room like that, talking.
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@arniechow thank you for letting us know! I did have to search by the Chinese name haha but I think I found it:
For some reason the opening song is not there?
@Don Yu see link above!
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@dramagirlslove good point about the plot hole of YL getting out of the island. I can't recall how they explained it in the novel either. I think we have to just accept this lot hole
One thing I like about Jin Yong's novels is that you almost never have a Mary Sue. Everyone is imperfect in some ways. I think we all recognize that WJ in essence is a very weak-willed man. He can't go against other people's wishes and lets others decide things for him. In real life situations that I've witnessed, a relationship with such a man is either doomed or rocky.
ZM, awesome as she is, isn't without flaws either. She is arrogant, and she can be mean. But somehow in many ways, she complements WJ; it's a case where opposite attracts and then builds on each other.
I really hope they air all 8 eps next week instead of waiting for another week!! The first week of airing they released 8 eps so it wouldn't be the first time if they decided to do so.
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12 minutes ago, arcchidus said:
It’s all wild speculation to be honest. None of us really know. The clothing from screenshot of the third hotpot scene is different from what she is wearing now so it’s a big question mark whether that’s really meant to be right before the wedding especially when we already have a scene where ZZR catches ZWJ hanging out with ZM instead of her.
and like people said above the kissing scene is likely coming up after given ZWJ’s hair and clothes.
@kur4p1k4 those scenes are original and I personally like them too. Honestly, I feel all these new scenes are really making ZWJ and ZM more likeable than in the original.
Original has some cute scenes but in terms of really being in love, this version is way more convincing!
I agree re the clothes: I did think it was odd that if the hotpot scene was before the wedding, why was his hair done that way?
Agree! Original (novel) has a lot of kiss scenes actually, unfortunately it was between WJ and all 3 of them (XZ, ZM, and ZR) haha so I'd take no kiss scene with anyone and more angst between OTP over sticking to canon.
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Hmmmmm I have strong mixed feelings about how ZM continuously confronted ZZR. It makes her look mean. Also when she told people that ZZR was pretending, she could have explained to people something like, someone like ZZR who knows kungfu can't possibly fail at killing herself?!
She should never have lowered herself to ZZR's level. For a smart woman like her, it seems like a bad move that wastes energy...
On the other hand, I actually liked the additional non-canon plot lines:
Spoiler- zzr' "suicide": showing how manipulative she is
- Fan Yao's saving ZM and plotting about killing the emperor, then Zhu YuanZhang counter-plot, then ZM telling WJ the real motivation of Zhu's plot, etc. : It builds the ground work for Zhu's "betrayal" later and WJ'd disillusionment, enough for someone who adhered to duty so severely like him to abandon everything.
- YL reunion with her family: a nice touch!
- WJ's grandpa being the one goaded him into the marriage: shows that WJ himself is very reluctant. It doesn't take away all the decision responsibility from him - in the end, it was him who let others tell him what to do, instead of living true to his heart.
I did wish they included the canon scene where they met before the wedding, but like @arcchidus I also enjoyed the change: their discussion is very much about their main conflict, and the bigger picture, about ZM's worry for WJ's future. While she didn't say the iconic line "I love you, I hate you!", all her dialogue said as much: she even betrayed her father for him but he's still not believing her, etc.
I think the contrast between two girls was very clear: ZZR doesn't understand his desire to live a quiet life, encourages him to lead Ming sect, and herself admits she cannot abandon her duty as Er Mei's leader, yet she and he never really discuss anything about the political big picture. She herself said this episode that she doesn't want to get involved in his organization's business, prefers to stay home and wait for him with food.
Contrast that with ZM, who knows very well that WJ doesn't give a f*** about "the greater good" (aka ruling the sect, and the country), he just wants to save people. She and he constantly have had to (due to their natural internal relationship conflict) discussed the war, who wants what, who needs to do what, etc. This is a much clearer contrast compared to the previous versions, and even to the novel. I like it!
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7 minutes ago, graceeedwardmom said:
I'm just wondering why there's no press conference or fan meet for this series? Are all the actors busy with new works or just the series is underrated in china?
I would like to see more casts interactions. BTS is not enough as they always emphasize the fight scenes.
Good point... It's not underrated though. It's been in top 5 in terms of views since it aired.
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And agree with the analysis about WJ's warm attitude towards ZR. Also remember people, he had a huge crush on her. To his simple mind this marriage makes sense: they needed to do it to preserve her reputation, they liked each other, they are a match in everyone's eyes, he feels responsible for her life. Yes, his actions are a spat in the face of his scenes with ZM, but that his biggest character flaw. He's perfect in every way except for his romantic dealings!
My friend said this about him during the Snake island arc: "the one he supposedly loves is missing, the one he's engaged to is right next to him, but the one he's reminiscing about is the one who is dead!"
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3 hours ago, quynie said:
Just finish watching today episodes. How can they give us sweets from episode 38 and then this? They could have take out all the skinships between ZWJ and ZZR which were not essential to the story. What with the holding hands, the hand on his heart, the lending shoulder?
At least he didn't told ZZR that he love her as deep as the injury she made in his heart like in 1986 and 2009 version.
Lot of things doesn't make sense with the changes that they made with the story.
1- Why did the yellow lady tell the beggar clan to take the girl as their leader? That girl doesn't have any wu gong skills nor leadership. Shouldn't the strongest beggar be chosen as the new leader instead?
(I can help to find the entrance of the Yellow Lady a bit ridiculous with all the girls playing musical instrument. I mean the Lady said that she lived modestly in a secluded cave, but have girls to make her appearance more important lol)
2- Funny how, SQS appears at the exact moment after ZWJ fought with his Wu Dang uncles. It is a bit farfetched that the timing is that precise. Futhermore, ZM, ZWJ and the Wu Dang uncles all happens to be at the same place where the 7th uncle's body is hidden.
3- Why let YL coming back so soon? How did she knew where to find ZWJ (who she thought was dead)? Did she recongnized him or still think he is Tang A Ngu? How can ZWJ go with the wedding with ZZR if he promised to wed YL (in other versions, he thought YL was dead, that's why he agree to wed ZZR)?
I was hoping for that too, but I am sure that there won't be another prince in this version from the trailer and preview.
I wish ZWJ will save ZM, but I don't think he will. Isn't he still at Wu Dang at that point? And what is the point to make him save her and then going to marry ZZR...
Your point 1 wasn't a change, but was original to the novel. But yeah it doesn't make sense.
Point 2: also from the novel, and yes very deux ex machina!
Point 3: this is a big change from the novel (YL came back at the very end). I think they might have something in store with this change. I'm guessing ZZR will try to kill YL again to cover her tracks and get discovered that way? In the novel she tried to kill XX because she was worried he knew something, but it didn't make sense: XX said he knew everything but pretended to be on ZZR's side so she doesn't hurt ZWJ - I always found this a big plot hole, XX can just kill ZZR if he wanted to (he did say that he had his suspicions due to being over to overhear things on the island when ZR was trying to kill YL, but he had no proof). In this version it's very clear that XX didn't suspect ZZR at all, which gave her no reason to try to kill him and get discovered. YL might serve this role.
YL had wanted to go back to Wudang to greet WJ's uncles and his dad's teacher, so it kinda made sense she went to Wudang to find him.
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56 minutes ago, bluesky888 said:
I noticed that Min Min called WJ (instead of ZWJ) when ZZR slap him on eps 45.
Yeah that was weird. Why isn't she calling him Wuji gege already?!
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6 hours ago, arcchidus said:
Good writing. In a way this version really make my dream ZWJ come true as well! My interpretation had always been that ZWJ loves ZM and never the other girls. And I think they will be happy afterwards after he left with her for a normal life.
But I do think this is different than the author’s interpretation of ZWJ toward the end of his life. I think the fact the author divorced multiple times made him jaded about romance in some ways. And he specifically wrote in the latest edition that he didn’t even know who ZWJ will end up with because he thinks ZWJ doesn’t know himself since he is soft hearted and loves everyone.
The way the novel was written, I think the author was mocking ZWJ towards the end, about the fact that he can't let any of those other girls go even though he knows he loved ZM the most.
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The confrontation in the ep46 preview is so good! In the novel, ZWJ never properly confronted ZR, I love this addition here. Ep 45 preview was also a slight change (for the better) from the original scene in the novel as well. Love it!!!
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In ep 43 preview he's STILL calling her Miss Zhao?! Boy...
Edit: oh ok it's MinMin in 44! So I just have to wait another week, oh dear
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Wait but he would need the medicine in the box to cure the Song guy (after he "married" ZZR)!
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4 hours ago, LaurenPanna said:
I wonder why no one mentioned the scene in which ZWJ poke the hairpin back on ZM 's hair. (or maybe i missed out). I thought that was really a cute scene.
And i am glad i am not the only one in this world pinning for Wednesdays to arrive and watching MVs preview to quench my thirst for more ZWJ-ZM moments during Saturday to Tuesday
That was a very cute scene, almost like a modern kdrama (didn't she push it back into his hair as well? So funny!). I love this director's attention to details!
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1 hour ago, LaurenPanna said:
Can anyone correct me if I am wrong. Looking at some of the youtube fan MV videos preview, seems like upcoming Episodes will have quite a number of deviations from the Original Novel?
Example:
- ZM openly call ZZR out as the murderer instead of waiting or doing some planning behind the scenes for ZWJ to discover the Truth? This is not her style right?
- And Bai mei Ying wang going to be killed during fight with Yuan Soldiers? Not during the Shaolin Lion Slaying episode?
- And ZM pointing a sword at ZWJ ?? which part of the Novel is this?
- How about the Part whereby ZZR capture ZM and forced ZWJ to confess who he really love? I remember this part was really sweet. ZWJ saying that he rather die if he lose ZM.
Correct me if I am wrong, I read the novel like 10 years ago.Yeah all those are not canon; the last point was in an earlier version of the novel but was taken out in the latest edition I believe.
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5 hours ago, Yitian_fan said:
do we know when ZWJ walks in openly to the Ming Sect holding ZM's hand? He looks so happy there.
More random c-fandom tidbits
1. Questioning why WJ would believe ZM could set off on the boat when she can't even push it off the beach
2. Asking why ZM would bring up ZZR's deeds infront of everyone when she isn't confident of proving it (or sure of winning)
3. Noted the scene of the fruits Ildiz you just posted and commented that the fruits are clearly green and sour, but ZWJ claims it's sweet and ZM smiles when she eats it... because they're not eating fruits, they're tasting love!
That scene is probably when he's going with them to Shaolin to save XX.
Looool re number 1 &3. Number 2 - agree!! In the novel and 2009 version, WJ asked ZM she seemed to know already that ZZR was the culprit, why didn't she tell him. ZM said WJ wouldn't believe her anyway if she told him, which makes a lot of sense. I think this version made a mistake in having her fight with ZZR on this.
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12 hours ago, 40somethingahjumma said:
I don't disagree that in those early moments when they were reunited, he was crushing on her. No doubt he was a bit moony eyed.
That's definitely the case. He hadn't seen her for years and she was probably the closest thing to a childhood sweetheart he will ever have. But as soon as ZM came into the picture, things started to change. I think the fact that WJ and ZR didn't spend a lot of time together after GM peak with MJ trying her darndest to get between them probably gradually weakened whatever bond was between them.
I still don't really think that WJ is wishy washy as he is trying to navigate his way the mire of knowing his own mind.
People should be allowed to change their minds especially when they grow up and work out what is it that they want.
Agree. In a typical kdrama framework
ZZR is the first love that is most memorable but doomed to fail, to make way for the *last love* of the bickering, Darcy-Elizabeth kind which is ZM.
This version did a good job of having WJ expressing both verbally and through actions that what he feels towards XZ and Yin Li is compassion and brotherly love (even if he was still going to honor his promise to marry YL! Cos he's dumb and all). Also, I have no problem with YL, XZ, and eventually ZZR being separated from WJ by circumstances. ZM fought to be by his side, and was also the most lucky to not have been killed/kidnapped/forced to leave. Love is about timing and not just effort, and ZM has both!
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Love the discussion!
There's a classic quote from the novel where WJ says that toward ZM, he hates her and loves her, toward ZZR, he respects her and fears her. I think that says a lot about his different reaction to who was supposed to be the culprit.
ZM's response to this quote is the best: she'd rather he love and fear her, and respect and hate ZZR
I just love her wit!
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@aoife86 agree re ZZR being portrayed in a much better light here. I'm curious to see how they explain her transformation once everything is revealed.
I think in the 2009 version WJ definitely seems to have a bit more chemistry with XZ, but I don't remember in the other versions if he treats her any special. The 2009 version did a great job with XZ, she was playful, smart and memorable. I never really care for XZ in other versions. In the novel though I do think he is a bit biased towards XZ since it was for the most part a very uncomplicated relationship, unlike his other ones
@Yitian_fan great point about the difference in confidence due to upbringing! ZZR's turn for the worse could be attributed to her insecurities being brought up as an orphan. XZ's acceptance of being his maid instead of vying for a wife spot also might be due her having to hide her identity and being in the shadow all the time. A Ly has all the baggage about her dad trying to kill her and her appearance being ruined. ZM if we think about it grew up the most fortunate, and is the most spoiled, thankfully that helps her become confident and not evil.
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They definitely have a gender role reverse situation here
she's always so grabby and touchy whereas he looks so scandalized clutching his pearls.
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This version dials up everything basically. ZM is more passionate, ZWJ is more reactive ( he is both more pertubed by her and extra shy at her compared to previous versions). I do agree though that it's about time he gives up his "Ming sect is my priority" speech. Can't wait for next week!!
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@Yui. The 2000 version changed a lot of things compared to canon. If you want a more faithful version, try the 2009 one. I think Ady An is my second favorite ZM after the 1994 Taiwanese version (the only good thing about that version tbh).
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I can't wait until WJ's hair is out of his face! His current hair is tragic :/
and poor Joseph Zheng- the criticism of his...big eyes?? Is overboard. I do think he has room for improvement in some scenes, but overall I really like his version of WJ! He's naive without being stupid, emotional without being sloppy. His version to me is up there with Tony Leung!
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21 minutes ago, Yitian_fan said:
What scene is this??!! CUTE!!! :)))) Hamaji you have the best gifs!!! [You realize that this is dope and you're dealer right?
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Is he trying to give her something and she rejects it?! I love the adorable-ZWJ-mean-ZM scenes.... who knew I was a sadist?!
But yeah arcchidus, I don't know the scene you speak of but ZM does stab herself in a suicidal move to defeat the Persians on Fire-Ice island. Is that the one?
And yes, ZM inspires a lot of love... so we're all thrilled to be in the thick of the show at last!
The scene in the gif was in one of the eps from today (Wednesday), he was asking her why she stopped him from saving ZZR.
The clothes in the scene where she appears to be stabbed is different from the clothes on the island. I'm curious too what's that about.
I'm guessing there will be more eps than 50. When I was watching Hao Lan they said it'd be 63 and then it became like. 72? Or something? Not that I'm complaining! Give me more ZM x ZWJ!
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ZZR is the first love that is most memorable but doomed to fail, to make way for the *last love* of the bickering, Darcy-Elizabeth kind 
which is ZM.
[Mainland Chinese Drama 2019] Heavenly Sword Dragon Slaying Saber 倚天屠龙记
in Mainland China
Posted
They also changed how strongly WJ reacted to ZZR's crime, so I also hope this means no more "you owe me one thing" from ZZR!