[Drama 2013/2014] ♚ Empress Ki (기황후) ♚

[chrissydiva]

Well while I'm gonna change the subject and bring out our resident evil Empress. )
Since I liked BJH since I Summon You Gold, I was hoping her character would be more like Anne Boylen from the Tudors who is one of my favorite female characters. Anne was in no way shape and form a good girl. She was beach! She had an ambitious father who was thirsty for power and thought that the best way to get it was through his daughters. Even remember a disturbing scene where her father told her how to sexually satisfy the King to get him in her corner permanently. She pretty much mocked and disrespected the current Queen just because she received the King's grace and was eyeing that Queen's place. Difference between Anne and TN was that Anne did get the King's love but Tana never did. One could argue that it was because he already developed feelings for SN, but i think it's like TH said, everytime he looks at TN, he sees the man who killed his father. The struggle Tana went through to gain TH's love and to conceive could be mirrored with the struggle Anne went through to give the King a son and to keep his attention and love. But Tana just veered into "turned off" territory for me. Having her pray while those killings were happening didn't help matter. One thing that Anne and SN might have in common is i guess determination. I am pretty sure once SN eyes the throne just like Anne did, she just won't stop and will make sure she gets it. I just hope she won't have the same tragic ending as Anne. Though i doubt TH would ever put her to death no matter what, but Tana is not going to be so lucky.) Which brings me back to my original point. TN's character could have been even more engaging/intringing if she was more like Anne than some jealous sharpie who wants to kill people just so she could sleep better at night.

[palilsan]

I wanted to add even though Taehwan has not had much access to his people he is not without empathy for people. You can see the remorse in his face when he has to have his own guards killed after Seungnyang warned him that El Temur and Dangkise knew of their plans. He even looked uncomfortably at the food tester maid when tried El Temur’s wine before the poisoning attempt. He even hated issuing the order to kill the caught rebels right before issuing the order to depose Empress Dowager.
Every aspect of his life was controlled by El Temur or Empress Dowager since childhood. Empress Dowager constantly advises and pressures him to be patient, wait till it is time and not to act independently. She really doesn't want Taehwan to be independent, it’s just that she wants to be in control rather than El Temur. Baekhan ultimately wants power too even if his intentions are to help his people as he says that’s to be seen. Taehwan is truly surrounded by a den of snakes. What is he to do, just plot to overthrow everyone and seize power with no support or true allies? He can’t just seize power without any help. Wang Yoo has always been dismissive of the Emperor and has never included Taehwan in his plans. So even if Wang Yoo is there fighting to regain his throne and depose El Temur, Taewhan wouldn’t know. All he sees is Wang Yoo allying with El Temur. It is good that Seungnyang spurred him on to try to become stronger and retake power, and losing her helped him to act and think more independently. He also learned that acting independently and rashly has its consequences. He is evolving and that's interesting to watch. He just doesn’t have the support base right now. Wang Yoo has the support of his loyal men and Seungnyang and even his plans don't always work out. Taehwan literally has no one now. 
I also think Taehwan acting childish was a survival mechanism. After all, a child is not seen as a threat to anyone whereas someone who is mature, independent and defiant is. That is why El Temur wants to keep Wang Yoo close, to keep an eye on him because he could be a threat.

[Guest ghollygina22]

I'm curious if Wang Yoo really won't know about his own child? Forever??? How cruel is fate if this is so. Harsh! (

[pegster]

@Ding Lin, @vu_hoa1983 the waters in here have been kind of rough lately, so I don't want to be the one rocking the ships 
chrissydiva said:

[ChelseaS]

@pegster

It's a magic mirror!!! Will definitely protect those who have it.
) ) )

Lady Noh died after handing it over.
( (

[Guest Ding Lin]

@pegster..... 

Got the warning, Captain!     <Share the medicine of seasick to Pegster> 


pegster said: @Ding Lin, @vu_hoa1983 the waters in here have been kind of rough lately, so I don't want to be the one rocking the ships 

[Guest niknokdagu425]

just watched epi 22,although im a TH-SN shipper all the way, i kinda felt happy when SN said to her baby that his abuji would be happy when he gets to see him,i love the way unnie HJW delivered the lines i can really feel she will be a great mom in the future, but still my heart bleeds for PAEHA he truly loves SN that he resisted his self to see her for safety reasons,huhuhu how come its not monday yet. (

[tieuyeunu]

pegster said:
@tieuyeunu I don't know if I'm not looking into it enough, or if I might have missed something.  I never found that SN had any hatred toward Yuan.  I always found her hatred was toward the people who had wronged her (ex. TH - that seemed to have been in the past, DK, ET clan, YBS, etc...), but not toward Yuan as a whole.

[Guest lunatiger14]

I just watched the latest episodes and I'm like OMG right now....Want to share my thoughts because it was mind blowing. Sorry if this is a long post and things are repeated. The last 2 episode were a dozy, especially ep 22. I’m still trying to process it. I can’t even think straight at work. During my work meetings all I can think of is how the storyline will progress. I know pathetic right? But that’s how much I’ve been hooked onto the show, so good job writers, for catching my attention. I almost wished that I watched this drama later on when more episodes aired so I didn’t have to wait an agonizing long week. Episode 22 almost killed me. It was gut-wrenching to watch and touching all at the same time. I was right in my prediction that SN is preggers with WY child. (1 couple’s bed scene is always a clear sign of baby drama to come.)

It was touching to see SN in full maternity mode. Her rubbing her belly and telling her baby he will see his father soon, was so touching, I wept. It was my favorite scene because we got to see another side of SN that we haven't before. She wants to be like her own mom for her child. And then the very next scene we get is with WY in Koryo, who has absolutely no idea he’s about to be a father, was heartbreaking. UGH! *Writer why do you torture me so with these long separations!?* T_T

I’m on-board with the baby storyline. It’ll be interesting to see where it goes. I sincerely hope SN doesn’t have a miscarriage because
A) that would make the last 45 mins of baby talk and motherhood irrelevant and wasted screen-time.
Lady Park and all the Koryo girls sacrifice would be for nothing.
C) It would degrade SN's determination on survival for her and her child.
I’m crossing my fingers right now, but it could go either way. The chances of the baby’s survival when born prematurely are slim especially in ancient times, but we’re talking about kdrama, so anything can happen.

My wish is that SN's pain is really from stress and that she’s not really giving birth at all. She was sitting up and not even spreading her legs out for the baby to come through, which makes for an awkward position to be in. She makes it to Koryo and after some initial problems with getting close to the Wang-Yu, finally meets up with Wang-Yu and has her baby there. I know its very fanfiction…but I’ll keep that thought locked away in my head in terms of alternate universe storylines. LOL I really just want a small bit of happiness with Wang-Yu and SungNyang. They’ve been through so much together. The only true happiness we got was Wang-Yu’s sweet marriage proposal to SungNyang and her acceptance. As for the rest of their time together, it’s always heartbreak, separation, and struggle. I’ve even made a list of the things they’ve been through together and after re-reading it, it makes me even sadder that about their situation and SN's eventual marriage to TH.

I think the scene which made me fall in love with WY was when he first became the King and said to his corrupt ministers “If anyone pulls the “Kill me Majesty” sympathy card with me, I’ll kill you myself!” (or something to that effect, I forget the exact words) LOL. It was hilarious and I find it humorous to see WY not taking any political bull-crap Richard Simmons-kissing from anyone. He knows who is donning a fake smile and who is genuine to him. I have to say I found him totally hot during that scene and every scene since. He gets things done and gets the story moving, has great actions scenes and I love watching his battle of wits with EVERYONE in the Yuan court. I find it puzzling that people say he’s boring. If you want to see boring then Yushin from QSD show was extremely boring. He was stale, stoic, and pretty much the same from beginning to end. Most if not everyone flocked to Bidam’s side so much so that the writers extended the romance between Seonduk and Bidam. At least with Bidam he was capable of getting things done but did so in a fun and energetic way.

I find WY way more fascinating then staring at TH’s puppy face saying “Where’s SN?” “How can she be with WY???” “Why doesn’t she love me?” Me, me, me….mine, mine, mine…oh lord… it went on and on for like 8-10 freaking episodes. I kinda agreed with SN, that he’s annoying and felt like to punching him, to be honest and say get a grip. LOL I really LOVED TH in the beginning when SN was his guard and they interacted together. He took the initiative to grab medicine to save SN, but all that character development he got went downhill once he got back to Yuan. You would think his experiences in Koryo would compel him to at least take basic steps in improving his situation like learning to read and write in secret, away from ET but he doesn’t even do that until much later. I’m like dude! You say to WG that you’ll never forget your enemies, like you want to take revenge on them but proceed not to do ANYTHING about it and play the victim card. I was very disappointed. By the time he actually did try to change I couldn’t care less, because it wasn’t really for himself it was because of SN. That’s all fine and dandy, but you can’t strap her to your side 24/7. She’s her own person she’s not your life’s blood and you shouldn’t treat her as such. I find it creepy and possessive. Sorry I don’t mean to bash TH because I absolutely L.O.V.E.D him in the beginning but now it’s just blah….at least in my opinion. Sure his scenes with SN are spicy but I watch the overall story and he doesn’t really add anything to it, at least not for me. Don't kill me!

[cacazeel]

lol at JJM
[credit: DC empress ki gallery]
(not sure if this has been posted here before, if so please let me know)
side not: seems the cast of King's daughter and Empress ki are together at the same set

[chrissydiva]

Yes, they film in the same lot. I remember HJW's brother saying that he gets to see his noona more because they are filming at the same place.

[sally_b]

@cacazeel - RE: your photo from the set. (thanks!)
It looks like it should have a caption - Joo Jin Moo: "You touch mah chickin'...I will killz you."

[pegster]

Ok everyone, put your seatbelts on!!
I was just re-watching episode 22 with subs (yes again! I am officially addicted), and I think I picked up a hint that will likely mean everyone's biggest fear is going to happen.

In the scene where DM tells SN LP will be leaving the palace in 2 days, SN asks DM to tell Bang to meet her somewhere around the mountains near 'Wang Kok Sha' (name of the temple, sorry I've butchered the translations).

In the next scene when ED is talking to Jang, he hells her that DS is currently staying at the same temple, 'Wang Kok Sha' to pray for her 'unborn baby'.
So I think what will happen is while SN is trying to escape from YBS, she's going to somehow leave the baby behind at the temple to keep him safe.  And voila! DS gains a new son.  I think the plot is going to go along the lines where no one outside of the current people will know SN had a child.
Bang may see from a far SN jumping/falling off a cliff while being chased by YBS, that's why he thinks she's dead and relays that to WY.
Maybe HD is also around and sees that from a far so she tells TH the same thing thinking that SN didn't survive the drop.

I read on Baidu from someone who read on DC that the production is filming in two separate groups now and Goryeo and Yuan scenes.  If that is true it'll probably be more focused on SN's return to the palace, similar to ep. 6-12 where SN and TH are in the palace, and WY is out in the battlefield.
Someone asked about the significance of the counterfeit money.  It was mentioned by Tal Tal in his letter to ED that their biggest hurdle with building an army of their own is money.  WY finds out that money that is to be paid by Yuan to Goryeo was replaced with counterfeit.  The ring that produces this is located in the province where BA now governs.  This may also mean that all the money that the Yuan officials have swindled from Yuan and Goryeo are now in that province.
I think this means that if BA and WY are able to crack down the counterfeit ring, they should be able to get the money they need to build their army.  
Right now it seems like WY and BA are joining forces to plot against their common enemy, ET.

[Libera]

pegster said: I've been contemplating about whether or not to post about this.
I've been backtracking and catching up on some of the comments in this thread (getting bored at work, it's quiet Friday), and I'm seeing a lot of comments from people saying how they think TH is such a pitiful character, and what a tragic life he has.
Sorry to say, but if we're talking about tragic characters (lead wise), TH is not the most tragic of the 3, at most he comes in second.  SN wins it being the most tragic/pitiful IMO (up till now).  If we're including other primary characters, then please, don't forget LP.
Here's is my rank of who is the most tragic/pitiful character (of the leads):
** Don't expand the spoiler tags if you don't want to read a long post, I mean a LOOOONG post **
#1 - SN

Had a hard childhood growing up with her mother alone, didn't know who her father was.  I'm sure we all agree that a single woman bringing up a child is hard in those timesWas captured and sent to be a tribute woman/slave at a young ageWhile trying to escape her fate of becoming a slave, she watches her mother die right before her eyes trying to save herFinds out the man who saved her from the streets was actually also responsible for her capture and her mother's deathHas to grow up hiding her true gender to avoid being captured as a slave againGrow up all her life plotting how to avenge her mother's deathFinally find her father, only to watch him suffer and die right before her eyesGet betrayed by the person who she risked her life savingOnce again meets her fate of being sent to Yuan as a tribute womanAlmost get raped by the man who killed her motherForced to serve the man who betrayed her, and adhere to all of his ridiculous and outrageous demandsUsed as an agent to handle the Empress' dirty deeds (poison LP to have her miscarry her child)Tortured by DKPossibly suppressing her growing affections for the man she can't love (TH)Separated from the man she loves, not knowing she was pregnantLive in hiding from DK et al during her pregnancy to keep herself, and her unborn child safeWatch the people who tried to save her die before her eyes, especially have to watch LP get killed with a full term child in herSuffer the pain of watching another mother like figure die before her eyes trying to save herRunning away for her life while 7 months pregnantGive birth pre-maturely on her own out in the wildHave her child taken away from herThe list goes on as the drama continues....With SN, her life was was full of hardships ever since she was a child, but she tried to overcome all of them all her own.  She tries to make her life better for herself, but it seems like fate just has a load of crap waiting for her from every corner she turns.  
She never really had anyone around her who she can depend on.  When she finally finds the man she loves, WY, they end up separating due to various reasons.
You can argue that SN had control over the choices that she made through out her life as well.  She didn't have to stay under WG's roof once she found out he was responsible for her mother's death, but then what would she do?  Grow up on the streets and beg for food?
All of her choices were somewhat either directly or indirectly influenced by the choices made by other people.
At least she took her time to properly plan out her revenge plot on WG, and she succeeded.
When she found her father, all she wanted to do was silently stay by his side, then boom! TH comes along, and not only that, WY gives her the mission to protect him, and puts the burden of keeping him alive to keep Goryeo safe.
When she first got the palace, she wanted to revenge, she gave up on that plan because she didn't want to bring harm to all the other Goryeo people in the place.
When she was about to just settle and live her life as a musari in the palace, DS decides to bring her into her scheme to get rid of LP and the unborn child.  This triggers her plan to scheme back against DS, now again putting herself in a hot spot.
The TH decides to bring her to his side, and this creates more conflict between her and DS.  
When TH decided to finally stand up against ET (again, it's not a bad/wrong choice), and WY wants to take down ET to get back his throne, being the type of person she is, she gets herself involved to help with the plan, once again putting herself into danger.
I guess only those who can overcome great sufferings can achieve great success.
#2 - TH

With TH, I'm sure he had a good childhood.  Even though his father was a powerless emperor, it seems like he was loved and care for by his parents.  It was only after his father died that his sufferings started.
Please don't tell he TH is still only a teen growing up now, based on his age as outlined in history.  Clearly he's a full grown man, and never once did he appear as a child, though he acts like one.
For TH, IMO some of his hardships in life are due to the choices he has made.
Yes, he was sent to exiled and targeted to be killed.  During his journey to Goryeo, you can see that he did have a somewhat loyal eunuch who was willing to disguise as him to help him escape, regardless of whether the eunuch did it out of loyalty or fear, he had someone die in his place.  Tutor Jang was always trying to help him within his powers.
During his escape from the island back to Goryeo, he had SN by his side always protecting him, again, regardless of her true intentions, if she hadn't have saved him, he would be dead.
What I'm trying to point out here is although he seemed to have been 'alone' all along, but really he's not.  He's had people around him, maybe not powerful people who can truly protect him, but he had people around him.  Now he has Golta, and I want to say he has LP because even with the few scenes that they have together, I can see she does care for him.
When he returned back to Yuan to become emperor, he easily could have continued his life being controlled by ET.  I'm sure if ET sees him as someone he can easily control, he wouldn't want to kill him that soon.  Now that's not saying what he's doing, trying to to revenge his father's death, and taking back the power he rightfully should have as an emperor is wrong, what I'm saying is this is a choice made.  TH chose to plan a revolt against ET, and to side with ED to do this.
Is his life really that bad being controlled by ET?  He is the emperor after all, inside the palace walls, he can do whatever he wants, live in luxury and not worry about the necessities of living.

#3 - WY


I'm can't imagine him having a rough childhood considering that he was the crown prince, and had all these loyal subjects around him and taking care of him.  Bang has been with him since he was a kid.  It also looked like he had the freedom to do whatever he wanted to do.
It's not as if he didn't know about the Yuan trying to control Goryeo on his life, is not secret that Goryeo is not strong enough to stand up against Yuan.  Why in the world he he blatantly just go against the Yuan with no regards for the possible consequences?
Just like how he had secretly planned out how to take down WG (with SN's help), he could have done the exact same thing with Yuan.
Same situation with TH, WY chose to act the way he did, no one forced him to. 
Sure he can't be with the woman he loves, maybe won't even know about his child, or even ever get to see his child, but this is partly because of his ambition to get his throne back.
He easily could have said, you know what, my dad's the king, I'm here with the woman I love, I'll just settle for a normal life, forget about all this political struggle.
Again, there is nothing wrong with him being a noble man, putting his people first, and trying to make the life of his citizens better in his own way, but it is a choice he made.

I can't get myself to classify him as a tragic/pitiful character.  For WY, it sounds bad, but the way I see it, he put himself in his current situation.

Outside of the leads, the first person that comes to my mind as being the most tragic/pitiful is Lady Park.  How much more tragic a life can you have?

First she's sent away from her home to be a slave in Yuan.

Then she's forced to be a baby making machine for a man who doesn't even care for her, then she gets killed before she can even give birth.  Even after she's attacked/on the verge of dying, no one really shows much concern for her.
It looks like she might also be an orphan, as when all the musaris were giving SN letters to bring back home for them, she didn't have anything to give to SN.
I get the feeling that LP is so willing to help SN partly because she envies SN, not in a bad way.
You can think that LP wants SN to fulfil the life that she's not able to have.  Find a man who she loves and loves her back, have a child with this man.
I got that feeling from the scene where she was talking to SN and saying how she WY would be happy to know that SN's pregnant.  This is something that she never felt for herself.  Really it seems like the only person truly happy about her being pregnant is ED.
The only reason why ED is happy about her pregnancy is likely due to the fact that ED now has a pawn of her own to go against ET.  It wouldn't be surprising if ED had planned to do the same thing with this baby as ET would've done with DS' baby if she was to have one, use the child to replace TH.

Ok, that's it for now, I'm exhausted from all this typing.  Ah....STRESS!!!!

[sally_b]

Hi @pegster -- Thanks for all your posts, lots of thinking (& typing) go into it. Kudos ~ ♥
I'll risk being unpopular by saying that (many pages back) I'd written that I didn't mind the scenario of Tanashiri *briefly* gaining possession of the baby - there's no place safer at that moment in time than to be the 'claimed baby' of the daughter of the most powerful (albeit despotic) man of the Era. Even if that immortal-rat El Plague were to know it was Seung Nyang's child, would he dare test Tanashiri's wrath? Methinks NOT. He doesn't survive by being a complete witless moron.
Dang KiSe and Tanashiri have committed treason by planning/executing the attack on Lady Park and entourage. The blood letter is out there and the thieves/hired killers (to my knowledge) are still living witnesses -- El Terror will eventually learn that his not-too-bright kiddos have compromised his position. Daddy won't be pleased.
If the baby (which I think we can all presume by now will survive, tho it's bat-poop crazy) ...goes to Tanashiri - we can guess that it won't be for long - so, I'm OK with it.(Also - I'm really glad to move back to the Palace - I've no shame in saying I like Ji Chang Wook...er...I mean TaHwan...on my screen):-*

[Guest ghollygina22]

I'm not sure anyone mentioned this before… but did ya'll see episode 21's WY & SN goodbye scene?!  OMG!!! their hands spoke to me!!!!!  ^^  I didn't know that was possible! OMGGGGGGGGGG!!!  I felt all these emotions.  And then when their fingers separated, Seung Nyang gasped…  I felt all that she wanted/wished/hoped/desired/dreamed… how does she hold it in like that?!  You can feel her repressing so much feeling.  ~O)
Ha Ji Won… YOU ARE SO GOOD at what you do!  My OTP you kill me every time your on screen!  Cheers Wang Yoo & Seung Nyang!!! 8->

[Guest anjshin]

As i have already finished contemplating to the different scenarios that might happen to the coming episodes, i'm still hopeful that the writers-nim will convey the relevance of what happened in the last episodes.

All right, ... SN escaping? met YBS on the cliff scene? let's suppose that she will jump of the cliff together with the baby, maybe her last resort. 2nd probability, YBS will take the baby from her? What happened, isn't she a warrior not to protect her baby from him til death like her mother did, or she is still suffering from post partum syndromes, lol . It's more like a nightmare and a Chucky's (YBS) Child's play, to me suddenly appearing right in front of her and will smile in an evil way big time. I still don't want to believe that she will go to the temple just to leave the baby for safety purposes. In the first place her pregnancy is not unwanted by her, she'd rather die fighting for her neonate. Knowing SN's character, she will not give up her child just like that, she had lived all years of her life longing for a family figure, she knows exactly what is the feeling of growing up without her father, and next without her mother.

[Guest kaeruchan]

pegster said:

Ok everyone, put your seatbelts on!!
I was just re-watching episode 22 with subs (yes again! I am officially addicted), and I think I picked up a hint that will likely mean everyone's biggest fear is going to happen.

In the scene where DM tells SN LP will be leaving the palace in 2 days, SN asks DM to tell Bang to meet her somewhere around the mountains near 'Wang Kok Sha' (name of the temple, sorry I've butchered the translations).

In the next scene when ED is talking to Jang, he hells her that DS is currently staying at the same temple, 'Wang Kok Sha' to pray for her 'unborn baby'.
So I think what will happen is while SN is trying to escape from YBS, she's going to somehow leave the baby behind at the temple to keep him safe.  And voila! DS gains a new son.  I think the plot is going to go along the lines where no one outside of the current people will know SN had a child.
Bang may see from a far SN jumping/falling off a cliff while being chased by YBS, that's why he thinks she's dead and relays that to WY.
Maybe HD is also around and sees that from a far so she tells TH the same thing thinking that SN didn't survive the drop.

[...]

[soojun]

The conversation below took place when my 9 year old daughter caught me replaying the underwater kiss scene for countless times. . Daughter: Mama, you really like this kissing thingy a lot, don't you? Me : They are not kissing, honey. He is passing air to her... Daughter: CPR? Me : Exactly! (Phew!) Daughter: With eyes closed? Me : Well, to prevent water getting into his eyes. .. Daughter: I suppose it is a life and death situation... Me : Yes! Of course! Daughter: How come the background music played with the rose petals floating around made it looked like they are kissing? Me : ... Daughter: You have been fooled Mama.... Kdrama can be very misleading.

[XueYu_Lu]

hi.. I am back... still had some hangover from ep.22... based on all your long looong looonnng posts.... I really wish/desires that my precious Grandchild will not go to Tanashiri's hands, though I know that she is going to take very good care of the child ('cause TN still is, a loving child, I can see goodness in her). I don't want my Little Angel and her baby to be separated... I can't express the sadness I will feel once this plot came to happen...

 

and I don't want to be tortured by it.. my exams are coming up next week and I can see myself on how I would react from this..oh please writer-nims don't crush our hearts more 'cause it's already broken from the past episodes...please gives us time to regenerate our hearts.. give us a reason to smile even a bit...  

^^ :-<