[Drama 2013] Thorn Flower / Spine Flower 가시꽃

[baduy]

Auntie Mame said:
And, the closing scene is Je Joon walking away with his son and his quasi-daughter because he's the only person with enough humanity left in him, to qualify for raising kids.

[Guest atomickitty]

LOL @baduy
Ye Ji does have the stench of a 'bad seed' all around her.

[elegance1]

Okay, have any of you guys watched episode 71? I really want to know what the inner monologue-thing was about - while she was seeing some flashbacks and her thoughts, what were those about? I also want to know the prosecutor was talking about when he was drunk and hitting on Jennifer obviously. Oh - I almost forgot. When she was talking to Hyeok Min's dad. That's probably the most important. 

[baduy]

elegance1 said: Oh - I almost forgot. When she was talking to Hyeok Min's dad. That's probably the most important. 

[baduy]

Text preview for episode 72

When Hyeok Min's mother hears from Jennifer that Seo Won threatened her by saying that Hyeok Min was responsible for the death of Kin Baek Chun, she tells ex-detective Seo to find out the truth.

Jennifer tells Soo Ji that she's concerned about the way she's changing, but Soo Ji replies that that's all down to what Jennifer has done. Then after drinking some green tea Jennifer has given her, Soo Ji suddenly clutches her belly and groans loudly, which brings Hyeok Min's mother running.  [in the video preview, we apparently see Nam Joon collecting Soo Ji from the hospital and being told by her that she's just suffered a miscarriage. Then see Jennifer being reproachfully given the same news by Evil Mom and clearly being shaken by it].

When Hyeok Min hears that Seo Won has questioned Je Joon as a potential prosecution witness to an assault charge, he asks Seo Won to back off, but Seo Won scorns him, saying that though they were once friends, they are now enemies. [i don't know what this last bit is about, and I suspect the preview writer isn't sure, either. Is Seo Won pressing that assult charge stemming from their encounter at the beach? But why would Je Joon be a witness in such a case? This looks to me as though it's connected with another of the little clips from today's episode (71) on the jtbc YT channel, pretty puzzling outside the context of the episode as a whole, where Seo Won is calling Je Joon and expressing his "disappointment" that he's apparently decided to keep quiet about what Seo Won told him about Ye Jin's parentage. He then goes on to threaten that unless Je Joon kicks up a fuss and reveals all to his family, he will find grounds for having him arrested.

[baduy]

Another of the little snippets from today's episode on the jtbc YT channel is a further instance of a scene that is likely to puzzle viewer not acquainted with traditional Korean culture.

Granny is poring over the geneological table in her clan almanach.  Unlike the Family Register, which is the legally binding record of births, deaths and marriages maintained by a government agency, the clan almanachs have no offical legal status in modern Korea, but they have a very high status indeed among more traditionally minded Koreans.

As is widely know, there are remarkably few family names in Korea. What is less widely appreciated that each family name is divided into a number of clans of varying sizes, each one tracing its descent to a particular clan ancestor whose remains are honored at the clan's ancestral shrine (with the clan being named by the family name plus the location of that ancestral shrine). The elders of each clan maintain a record of all births and marriages of clan members, and publish them in an almanach of the kind Granny is perusing.  They also specify, in the almanach, a generational name for all males born into the clan (one of the two Hanja-derived given names which the majority of Koreans have).

Most Kdrama viewers will have learned, maybe from soompi postings, why the children of a family, especially the boys, often have one name component in common, but the explanation most often encountered (usually that the grandfather picks the generational name component for all his grandchildren) actually understates the practice in the most conservative of families, where all male children of the clan of a given generation, living in all parts of the world and often unknown to each other, are given the generational name decided by the clan elders and published in the almanach.

We know from her invariably wearing traditional Korean clothing as well as the various occasions on which the younger members of her family decide some things are best kept from her, that Granny has a highly traditional outlook, and so we aren't surprised to find that she regularly attends gatherings of her clan's elders and is going to such a gathering (normally held at a clan's ancestral shrine, except of course for those clans whose ancestral shrine is now in North Korea) the next day. But she alarms her daughter-in-law by declaring that she is going to take Eun Soek along with her, introduce him to the clan elders, and get him formerly enrolled in the clan almanach as a member of her clan.

Such enrolment has a quasi-religious significance, and the thought that Eun Soek, whose full parentage is known (though not of course, to Granny) and who belongs to his father's clan, might be thus falsely enrolled borders on the sacriligeous, as well as being a further step at apparently stealing Se Mi's child away from her. Enshrining that theft in a clan alamach, rather than in a merely civil document like the family register, would be felt to be very gravely wrong by those of granny's own outlook, and an insult to the clan as well as an offence against the child and its parents. Nam Joon's mother is about to reveal the truth, but she can't bring herself to say it, fearing how her mother-in-law would react.

On the other matter that will puzzle Western viewers that I raised before, namely the shamanic amulets that Jennifer found secreted in her bed at the weekend cliffhanger, there's a snippet from today's episode that shows Jennifer confronting her mother-in-law about her discovery (having apparently discovered three more such amulets hidden elsewhere in her room, since she brandishes no less than five of them).  Evil Mom at first denies she hid them, then admits she did, but claims they are good-luck charms designed to protect Jennifer and her unborn child from evil influences. In that case, Jennifer says with a sinisterly mischievous smile, I'll give them to Ji Min so she can benefit from them instead, and she correctly reads Evil Mom's horrified reaction to that suggestion.  (The video teaser for this episode showed a glimpse of Jennifer burning the amulets, presumably this comes next in the actual episode)

[baduy]

elegance1 said: I really want to know what the inner monologue-thing was about - while she was seeing some flashbacks and her thoughts, what were those about?

[Auntie Mame]

Quoted fr Baduy:
"Most Kdrama viewers will have learned, maybe from soompi postings, why the children of a family, especially the boys, often have one name component in common, but the explanation most often encountered (usually that the grandfather picks the generational name component for all his grandchildren) actually understates the practice in the most conservative of families, where all male children of the clan of a given generation, living in all parts of the world and often unknown to each other, are given the generational name decided by the clan elders and published in the almanach."

This is also true in Chinese families/clans.  Supposedly, my father's clan had a list of characters to name 26 generations.  And, with my brother being the 27th generation, the eldest uncle alive at the time had the honor of selecting the generational character to name my brother's generation.  Even though I was the oldest child, I didn't count because I was a girl.  Although, the girls, in my generation, still did follow one character of my name. 

And, it is total blasphemy to include a non-family member into the family archive book because it would be an affront to the ancestors.  I have heard that some families would not even include the females or an adopted child.   I saw one very, very old book in which a girl child issued was noted, but no name or anything.  We couldn't figure out if the girl child had died or if it was the custom not to acknowledge the child because it was a girl.  :-??

As for "Blue Moon", I'm still wondering how it stays afloat in business, given that the only customers are from this small group of people.  Although, it does seem like Blue Moon has tighten their expenditure belt because we haven't seen the torch singer and band since the early episodes.  And, they don't even throw out the ubiquitous plate of cut fruit to go along with the libations.  )

Oh, and it was a dead-give-away that Jennifer wasn't pregnant, with all the wine she's been downing with Je Joon and Seo Won.  Not too smart of someone bent on vengeance to the max.  8-|

[baduy]

Auntie Mame said: Oh, and it was a dead-give-away that Jennifer wasn't pregnant, with all the wine she's been downing with Je Joon and Seo Won.  Not too smart of someone bent on vengeance to the max.  8-|

[elegance1]

Oh my lord - I must write this as I'm watching the drama. Am I the only one who was totally creeped and kind of shocked to see Hyeok Min being totally nonchalant when Jennifer comes to his office WHILE he's beating this poor man. He's like getting his exercise when beating this man - well he didn't breathe regularly. 

[Triton823]

Hyeok Min and his family are weirder than the Munsters! LOL

and the Munsters were dead monsters!

[elegance1]

It's all so shocking to see that almost everyone in this drama are like really destructive, manipulative people. Most of the main people. Could any of you please help me with two things in this drama. One, what what So Ji's mom talking with evil mom about on the phone? And what did Ji Min do to the prosecutor .. the part where he went craycray afterwards. 

[Auntie Mame]

I think So Ji's mom told evil mom that So Ji had a miscarriage and that their company financial agreement was kaput.

Don't know about with what Ji Min threatened Seo Won.

Many episodes ago, I had said that Jennifer's revenge on Hyeok Min may be to drive him insane.  And, he's already had a lunatic's look in his eyes more than once.  The guy is becoming increasingly unhinged.  I wonder if Jennifer's intent is to have him kill her, in front of witnesses.  The fact that her precious baby is a murderer would drive his mother crazy, too.  (Assuming that Jennifer hasn't killed her off in some car accident, by then.)  /:)

[Triton823]

This show is soooo much better than Glass Mask...in this show the heroine is actually vicious!? If they would have put this into the main lead in Glass Mask and have her do some killings then that show would have been perfect in my opinion....anywho....I do think Hyeok Min was a little batty to start with. Everyone in that family is messed up in the head with the exception Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer who doesn't fit in with everyone...never can remember his name so shall call him Rudolph! lol

[baduy]

Episode 73 text preview

Hyeok Min's mother learns that Jennifer's inheritance was the reason Hyeok Min transferred ownership of the house to her, and her whole attitude to Jennifer changes.

Je Joon confirms that he is not Ye Jin's father, but for the child's sake, he makes up his mind to pretend ignorance of this fact.

While Jennifer discovers that Eun Soek has identical allergies to hers, Je Joon continues his determined quest to find out about Se Mi's baby.

[baduy]

There are two phone conversations between Hyeok Min's and Soo Ji's mothers in the YT snippets from today. The first one  takes place after Soo Ji has  gone to the hospital complaining of severe abdominal pain, claiming it was brought on by the tea Jennifer made for her. Soo Ji isn't answering her phone, and her desperately worried mother is ringing Hyeok Min's mother to say that if anything happens to Soo Ji or her baby, she will hold Hyeok Min's mother personally responsible, and her family and firm will have to bear the consequences.

The second conversation is the final snippet. Soo Ji's mother passes on the news that her daughter has miscarried and says that the only way Hyeok Min's family can now escape ruin is if they ensure that Hyeok Min divorces Jennifer at once and agrees to marry Soo Ji without delay.

[Auntie Mame]

baduy said: There are two phone conversations between Hyeok Min's and Soo Ji's mothers in the YT snippets from today. The first one  takes place after Soo Ji has  gone to the hospital complaining of severe abdominal pain, claiming it was brought on by the tea Jennifer made for her. Soo Ji isn't answering her phone, and her desperately worried mother is ringing Hyeok Min's mother to say that if anything happens to Soo Ji or her baby, she will hold Hyeok Min's mother personally responsible, and her family and firm will have to bear the consequences.

The second conversation is the final snippet. Soo Ji's mother passes on the news that her daughter has miscarried and says that the only way Hyeok Min's family can now escape ruin is if they ensure that Hyeok Min divorces Jennifer at once and agrees to marry Soo Ji without delay.

[Guest atomickitty]

I really don't understand them. Why don't they just tell Jennifer that the boy is her son. I'm getting annoyed with the whole 'scared face' scenes when Jennifer asks them any questions that might relate her to the her son. Just tell her already!!!

[baduy]

Episode 74 text preview

Hyeok Min and his mother forge a will in the President's name with themselves as  beneficiaries. The President insists that it's invalid, but Hyeok Min and his mother take no notice whatever of his views.

Je Joon now learns from Seo Won as well that Se Mi gave birth to a live baby, and says that if he consults adoption records he should be able to trace the child.

Seong Min suggests to Hyeok Min that Jin Yang Hee should be allowed to visit the President in his hospital room, but this proposal widens the rift between the half-brothers.

[baduy]

In an important development over at mvibo, the subbing tortoise got so annoyed at the rumors he was to be replaced by the one-toed subbing sloth that he decided the best way to get back at his employers was to thwart their obvious wish to deprive their subscribers of English subs, so he defiantly subbed TWO whole episodes in a mere TWO WEEKS. Hence eps 20 and 21 are now both subbed.

Unfortunately, mvibo thereupon ordered the one-toed subbing sloth to kick the tortoise off the premises, correctly supposing that if there's one thing likely to slow down a one-toed typist even further, it's having to one-toe-type with a foot encased in plaster as a result of a violent impact with a very hard tortoise shell. This does not bode well for future progress.

As further evidence ot the lunacy of the people who license this drama for legal streaming to overseas audiences, showboom.com has so far forgotten to release streams for any of this week's episodes. Maybe because, as happened last year with another drama, some bozo decided that ep 50 was the last episode.