Joo Won 주원 [Current Drama 2024 - The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[kittyna]

And the short fic I've been talking about is finally done!  

 

Just a quick note: I did write this with Father's Day in mind, but in truth, this is probably more a "Parent's Day" thing than strictly "Father's Day", given the extent to which the mother is involved  

 

Spoiler

Title: Omija

Drama: "My Sassy Girl" 

Characters: Princess Hye Myung, Gyun Woo, and their children (original characters from my own imagination)

Premise: "Just as omija need all five flavours – sweet, sour, salty, spicy, and bitter – in order to taste its best, so, too, does a family and a nation need all types of talent in order to succeed."

 

Note on Timeline:

I envision this story taking place approximately ten years after the events of the original drama, meaning that most of the drama's major characters (Gyun Woo, Hye Myung, and Kang Joon Young in this case) would have already married and started families of their own. If anyone's wondering where I got that idea from re: Joon Young, I'm simply going with the assumption that he ends up in a lasting relationship with the new girl he meets in the drama's finale. You may think differently, and that's okay: that's the beauty of sequel fics  

 

Also, re: Joon Young, he's addressed as "Lieutenant" in the drama, but I end up calling him "Captain" here. Why? Because I imagine he got promoted at some point  

 

Note on Language:

The Korean used in sageuk (i.e. historical/period dramas) is a bit different from modern-day Korean, with fusion dramas like My Sassy Girl using a mixture of both dialects. I tried my best to look up some of the more archaic terms, a glossary of which appears below, but understand that I'm still new to this, so please forgive my mistakes.

 

Eoma-mama - Mother, in cases where the mother is royal (Note: because of some rather complicated things regarding the children's status - see Author's Note for more - I'm not 100% sure that this is the right form of address. However, I still chose to go with it due to Hye Myung still being a Princess after her marriage.)

Abanim - Father, in cases where the father is NOT royal (Again, see Author's Note for more)

Buma - the official term of address for a Princess's husband

Sabu - Master/Teacher (it's not quite proper for Hye Myung to call Gyun Woo this, but I imagine that she still does as a nickname of sorts) 

 

Once again, please do not re-post anything from this fic on any other website. If you want to share this story, just link back to the URL. Thanks!

 

Spoiler

Omija

 

It has been a full day since the tea started steeping; looking at the beautiful bright red the water has taken, it should be ready by now.

 

Humming to myself in satisfaction, I scoop up a small sip before turning towards my daughter. “Come and try this, Sun Young-ah; let me know what you think.”

 

She comes closer and carefully crouches down beside me, hitching up her long skirts to avoid trailing them in the sand. I resist the urge to shake my head in bemusement: at her age, I was running through the palace gardens and even climbing trees; but somehow, despite taking after me in terms of looks, my eldest is prim and proper like a female version of her father.

 

It’s his calmly contemplative expression on her face as she takes the ladle from me and raises it to her lips. But within seconds, my Sun Young is an nine-year-old child once again, looking so comical as she screws up her face in disgust that I’m unable to hold back a laugh.

 

“Wae?” I ask teasingly, already knowing her response yet wanting to give her the chance to say it outright anyway. “Is it that bad?”

 

My daughter glowers at me. “What’s wrong with it, Eoma-mama?!” she barks out, sticking out her tongue in attempts to get the taste out of her mouth. “It’s sour!”

 

I tilt my head slightly to one side. “Don’t you remember when you tried one of the berries yesterday?” When she nods, I add, “Wasn’t it already sour then?”

 

Her expression softens slightly, but her eyes remain slightly narrowed, albeit in thought rather than skepticism. “A little bit sour, a little bit sweet…a little bit bitter and spicy, too. But, Eoma-mama: why is omija-hwachae sweet when you make it, then?”

 

I give her an indulgent smile. “That’s because it isn’t finished yet.” Right on cue, one of the kitchen maids approaches us, a small earthenware jar in her hands. Taking it from her, I open the lid to show my daughter the honey inside. “We still need to add this.”

 

Sun Young nods, smiling at last in understanding. Returning her smile with one of my own, I make to pour the honey into the larger jar, but stop at the very last moment. “How much do you think we should add?”

 

She blinks at me in surprise. “Ye?”

 

“You tell me,” I say, turning to look her directly in the eyes. “This omija-hwachae is meant for our entire family, so how much honey should I put in?”

 

Once again, she goes entirely still, that slight faraway look of her father’s reappearing as she thinks. “Well…all of us seem to like sweet things, but Abanim likes sour as well. Not the twins, though – especially not Young Hyun.”

 

“And what about you?” I add, reaching over to give her an affectionate pat on the head. “I believe you have the biggest sweet tooth of them all.” A pause. “So, can you tell me now? How much should I add?”

 

Had I taken it upon myself to teach her like this a year or two ago, Sun Young would definitely suggest that I add as much as possible. However, at nine years old, she is finally beginning to reach the age when a child should think of more than just her own desires. So instead, after yet another long moment’s thought, she says, “Put as much as Abanim would like in the jar for now; then, when it’s time for us to drink it, we can add more to other people’s bowls if they want.”

 

“Exactly.”

 

I set her to stirring the omija mixture as I pour in the honey, stopping her periodically to let her taste how it grows progressively sweeter and smoother. Then, once it is finally ready, I send the maid to fetch trays and enough bowls for our entire family of five.

 

“Ye, Your Highness.”

 

If this maid – or any of the household staff – thinks it strange that I would enlist my own daughter to help me instead of calling on any of them, they know better than to comment. Sun Young may be of noble birth – being the daughter of a Princess might not be worth much of anything, but being the eldest grandchild of the Minister of Education is – but I have no intentions of pampering her or letting her grow up into an ornament with no practical skills of her own. And although we may have our differences, in this, at least, my husband and I are the same.

 

I ladle out a serving of omija-hwachae for each of us, Sun Young adding extra dollops of honey to the bowls meant for herself and her two younger brothers. Then, after adding pine nuts and thin flower-shaped slices of pear for decoration, we place the bowls, along with various sweetmeats, onto several trays.

 

My daughter rushes in to help me as I stagger to my feet, the growing belly of this most recent pregnancy finally starting to weigh me down. As I smile down at her in thanks, her brow furrows in concern.

 

“Wae?”

 

“Eoma-mama, how did you manage when I was in there?” she asks, her lips pressing into a tiny pout. “Or the twins?”

 

“Thank goodness for your father, then,” I quip back. “Although I’m certain I could have managed with just the staff, he was always there to help.”

 

Never mind all those times when, immediately after thanking Gyun Woo for said help, I’d rail at him for getting me into such a mess in the first place.

 

Sun Young insists on taking my tray for me; she stays close by my side as, several servants following behind with the remaining trays, we make our way from the outbuilding housing the kitchen on our estate through to the inner women’s quarters.

 

Playful shouts and shrieks of laughter ring out to us as we approach the small gateway separating our rooms from the public men’s quarters, punctuated by the resounding crack of clashing wooden sticks. Pausing in her tracks, my daughter glances up at me with a knowing smile. “That must be Young Sil.”

 

I give her an indulgent smile. “And why is that?”

 

She opens her mouth to answer, but is cut off by a sudden high-pitched whoop in triumph. “Because of that,” she giggles. “Young Hyun never plays swords unless his Hyung makes him – and even when he does, he never makes this much noise.”

 

“Well, then,” I quip back, gesturing for her to move along, “let’s see if you’re right.”

 

Sure enough, when we emerge into the courtyard, it is to find the older of my twin sons jumping exuberantly in place, his wooden sword thrust straight up into the air. Watching him indulgently with her own practice weapon tucked under one arm, Byul Yi can only nod as, once again, he repeats the sparring technique she’s just taught him: dealing the wooden post propped up as a target several rapid whacks.

 

I wave for the servants to move along to the terrace without us as, hurrying to set down her tray for someone else to take, Sun Young jogs closer to the pair. At the sound of my daughter’s voice, Byul Yi turns to face us with a polite bow; however, whatever she might have intended to say to me is drowned out by Sun Young’s loud gasp:

 

“Ya, Gyun Young Sil – you’re filthy!”

 

I glance over at the children at the same moment in which Sun Young grabs her seven-year-old brother by the shoulders and turns him towards me. Immediately, despite my better judgment, I burst out laughing.

 

“Well, you certainly have a way of getting into mischief, don’t you.”

 

In addition to a mock sword fight with Byul Yi, my son appears to have spent plenty of time grappling and rolling about on the ground as well: his clothes are rumpled; there are two matching dirt smudges on his cheeks; and even his braid is starting to unravel, the ribbon used to tie it lying in the dust where it came off in the chaos.

 

As Young Shin – who’s become something of an unofficial male nursemaid for the children over the years – retrieves the ribbon and passes it to me along with my son’s discarded cap, my daughter rounds on me, hands planted firmly on both hips. “It’s not funny, Eoma-mama!” she whines, scandalized at my reaction. “What will Abanim say when he sees this?”

 

“He’d say that at least one of you appears to be your mother’s child.”

 

All of us turn towards my husband, who has just now emerged from his study, Young Hyun – the younger of our twin sons – hovering close by his side. As Gyun Woo comes down the steps to join us in the courtyard, Young Shin hurriedly scurries to join Byul Yi in a formal bow. “Joesonghamnida, Buma,” he stammers, referring to my husband by his formal title. “I should have kept a closer eye on him.”

 

Gyun Woo simply raises one hand in pardon. “Gwenchana. Little boys will have their fun, and there’s no harm in a little dirt every now and again. However,” he adds, taking the cap from me and returning it to his son, “I expect you, Young Sil-ah, to be more careful next time.”

 

Herein lies the biggest difference between the twins: whereas Young Hyun would simply take his father’s admonishment without question, Young Sil now stares up at him with wide eyes. “Waeyo?”

 

“‘The virtues of a Commander are wisdom, sincerity, benevolence, courage, and strictness,’” his father answers. “If you cannot even control or discipline yourself, how can you expect to lead others by example?”

 

Even though the comment wasn’t even directed at him, Young Hyun nods solemnly in agreement; however, in stark contrast, Young Sil makes a face. “Is that from The Analects?”

 

As Sun Young gives her brother a warning nudge, my husband goes completely still. His eyes flutter closed for a moment; his shoulders rise and fall in time with his tense sigh. Clearly, Gyun Woo doesn’t approve of what he’s just seen.

 

However, rather than scold our son directly, he merely shoots him a pointed look. “It’s from The Art of War,” he answers evenly. When Young Sil’s mouth falls open in understanding, my husband raises an eyebrow at him. “I should know you well enough by now to know that where Confucius fails, Sun Tzu might actually succeed.”

 

As our son cracks a small sheepish smile, suitably chastened at his father’s admonishment, Gyun Woo’s expression finally softens and he reaches down to give the boy an affectionate pat on the head.

 

“Now that that’s settled, go tidy yourself back up and join us on the terrace. Your mother and sister have taken the time to prepare a refreshment for all of us, so we shouldn’t let their hard work go to waste.” He directs his attention to our younger son next. “You, too, Maknae-yah: the last time I checked, you still had ink on your fingers.”

 

Young Hyun nods, scampering to take his older brother by the hand. Together, they run back for their shared room, Young Shin staying behind just long enough to register my order to fetch a comb while he’s at it before following along at their heels.

 

The rest of us watch the trio go before, my husband offering me his arm for support, we make our way to the terrace overlooking the garden. Taking advantage of our slight delay, the maids have already laid out the omija-hwachae and accompanying snacks; along with Byul Yi, they now take their leave, retreating back to their respective afternoon duties.

 

Once again, Gyun Woo helps me to sit down beside him, Sun Young sidling up on my other side. It will be several more minutes before the twins get here, so it’s little surprise that my husband now looks over at me with an amused twinkle in his eye.

 

“Wae?”

 

“Who would have thought,” he asks, “that Young Sil would end up being the sassy one in this family?”

 

“Well, I suppose one of them had to do it,” I quip back good-naturedly. “If all three of the children wound up taking after you, Gyun Sabu, then this household would end up far too boring for my liking.

 

“However,” I add a moment later, “considering what he wants to do, some fire in his personality might actually serve him well.” When Sun Young peers questioningly at me, I move to explain: “Byul Yi told your father and I that your brother said he wanted to become a military officer when he grows up.” I shoot a pointed look at my husband. “And we both know there’s nothing wrong with that.”

 

“True,” Gyun Woo answers coolly. “However, if that is the case, he must learn to have the proper discipline first.”

 

Even without his putting it into words, I know what this is about. “You don’t like how he questioned you earlier?”

 

“There’s no harm in being passionate or having a quick wit, and we should do our part to encourage that.” He spreads his hands out in a shrug. “However, we both know that, if left unchecked, those can turn into stubbornness and a spiteful attitude when he’s older.”

 

I answer with a knowing nod: both of us have seen enough of such individuals at court, and not for the first time, I wonder if Gyun Woo’s decision to marry me was as much out of a desire to escape from politics as it was out of love for me.

 

“Young Sil is still young, though,” he concedes. “It would do him more good to start teaching him now rather than disciplining him later. So perhaps,” he finishes, looking fondly into my eyes, “I will be the one taking your advice for once.”

 

He might have elaborated further, were it not for the fact that we both now spot the twins heading in our direction. As they climb up onto the terrace to meet us, I simply answer Gyun Woo with a simple nod and smile, signalling with my hand that we can resume our discussion later.

 

It’s immediately clear from Young Sil’s flushed cheeks that Young Shin has thoroughly scrubbed his face clean before letting him join us – but it’s Young Hyun’s appearance that makes our eyes widen and our jaws drop in surprise.

 

“Ya, Maknae-yah,” I gasp softly. “What’s all this?”

 

My youngest smiles brightly, plopping down on the floor in his usual spot, his long hair hanging loose around his shoulders like his brother’s. “You said you would do Hyung’s hair, Eoma-mama,” he chirps. “But what about me? Can you do mine, too, juseyo?”

 

Well, with both boys looking like this, I don’t have much of a choice left in the matter. “Geu rae,” I answer, even as I gesture for Young Sil to come sit in front of me first. “I’ll do yours as well – as long as you wait your turn nicely.”

 

“Ye – komapsumnida!”

 

As Young Hyun helps himself to his drink in order to pass the time, I get straight to working on my older son. It’s no wonder that Young Sil’s hair tends to end up a tangled, unraveled mess: not only is he the more rambunctious one out of the twins, but he also has a double crown like this father. Consequently, it takes me a moment longer than with the other children to fully comb his hair smooth and braid it neatly down his back. Still, this is one of my favourite things to do for the children, the familiar motions taking me all the way back to my own childhood, when my mother had done the same for me.

 

In almost no time at all, I tie the end of his braid with a short ribbon and gesture for the twins to switch places. Then, several minutes later, after both boys are finished and my husband has let them eat their fill, he beckons for Young Sil to rise.

 

Immediately, our son scrambles to his feet. “Ye, Abanim.”

 

“I hear that you want to take the military exam when you grow up.”

 

Young Sil beams. “Ye, Abanim,” he answers brightly. “I want Young Hyun and me to work together to help Joseon – just like you and Kang Jung Hwan’s father used to do.”

 

Both his father and I smile at the mention of the other boy: Captain Kang Joon Young’s only son and our sons’ closest playmate. “Well, then,” Gyun Woo says, “if that is the case, then I think you will like what I have planned for you, Young Sil-ah.”

 

I round on my husband. “Gyun Sabu–”

 

“Gwenchanayo, Your Highness,” he replies smoothly, gesturing for silence with one hand. “I’m only telling him the things we’ve agreed on these past few weeks.”

 

When I concede with a nod – only giving in because I know now what this is about – he turns back to our son. “Next year, it will be time for you and Young Hyun to move out of your mother’s quarters and into mine.”

 

Young Hyun pouts – he’s always been the more affectionate of the twins – but Gyun Woo smiles warmly at him. “Gwenchana, Maknae-yah; I know it sounds scary right now, but all young boys go through this sooner or later. It just means you and your Hyung are growing up.

 

“And,” he continues, redirecting his gaze at our older son, “‘growing up’ is what this is all about. You play well enough with that toy sword for now, but there is much more to becoming an officer than simply knowing how to fight.” He raises an eyebrow. “Once you’ve moved into your new room, Young Sil-ah, your real training will begin.”

 

Immediately, a hopeful spark lights up in the boy’s eyes. “With Byul Yi, Abanim?”

 

“Perhaps. However, my actual hope is that we will be able to make arrangements with Captain Kang by then.”

 

For a long moment, we can only look on in amusement as Young Sil simply stands completely still, jaw dropped wide open. Then, when the reality finally sinks in, he immediately throws himself onto the floor in a formal bow. “Kamsahamnida, Abanim!” he gasps eagerly, bobbing his head in time with his words. “Kamsahamnida!”

 

“Don’t thank me just yet, Young Sil-ah,” my husband teases him softly. “The path you’re choosing won’t be easy, and you will need to work hard and study hard. More importantly, you will need to work on those virtues I listed before.”

 

Right on cue, Young Sil rises back up onto his knees. “Wisdom, sincerity, benevolence, courage, and strictness.”

 

His father nods. “Exactly. Keep those virtues in mind, my son, and they will serve you well.”

 

Young Sil can barely contain his excitement as he returns to his seat, and his siblings immediately reach in to give him congratulatory pats on the back. With Sun Young watching over the twins as they chatter softly between themselves, I lean in close beside my husband.

 

“Komawo, Gyun Sabu,” I whisper to him. “I know this wasn’t what you’d originally had in mind for him.”

 

“It has been the tradition for the eldest son in our family to pursue the literary arts, and there will inevitably be some people who will see Young Sil’s decision as a step down the ladder. However, we still have Young Hyun for that. Besides” – he gestures down at our now-empty cups – “just as omija need all five flavours – sweet, sour, salty, spicy, and bitter – in order to taste its best, so, too, does a family and a nation need all types of talent in order to succeed. I can prefer the omija’s sweet notes to its bitter ones, but I cannot change the fruit from what it i–”

 

“Aniya – that can’t be true!”

 

Startled that it is Young Hyun raising his voice for once, both of us round on the boys in astonishment. Spotting us out of the corner of her eye, Sun Young shrugs helplessly in our direction, but the twins are too caught up in their heated discussion to notice they are being watched.

 

“Abanim wouldn’t do something like that, Hyung – quit making stuff up!”

 

“But I’m not!”

 

“You are!”

 

“Am not!”

 

“Boys!” my husband calls out, quickly intervening while his voice can still be heard over their squabbling. As the twins both swivel around to face us, he asks, “Just what on earth are you two talking about?”

 

Young Hyun points a finger at his brother, eyes blazing. “Hyung’s being mean, Abanim – he says that you murdered someone once.”

 

Stunned, I gape at my older son. “Mwo? Ya, Gyun Young Sil–”

 

“That’s not what I said!” Young Sil says, earnestly defending himself. “I just said that Abanim knows how to fight and that he even rescued the king a long time ago.”

 

“Liar,” his younger brother retorts. “You said he killed someone.”

 

“A wicked, bad man who was trying to attack the king. That’s not ‘murdering someone,’ Young Hyun-ah – there’s a difference.”

 

“But still!” Young Hyun cries out, lip trembling in his agitation. “You’re still saying that Abanim hurt someone, and that’s still bad!”

 

As Sun Young looks helplessly at us, begging us to intervene with her eyes, Gyun Woo and I exchange careful glances. Neither of us wanted the children to know about the more complicated aspects of our past until they were a good deal older – but nor had we accounted for them finding out on their own.

 

Blinking in surprise, my husband turns to face our eldest son. “Wh-where on earth did you hear about that, Young Sil-ah?”

 

“Did Prince Eun Sung tell you that?” I add hastily, my voice ringing artificially bright in my ears. “If so, you can just ignore it; your great-great-uncle always spouts off all sorts of silly nonsense, you kno–”

 

“Kang Jung Hwan told me,” my son blurts out triumphantly. “He said that’s what his father told him.”

 

And we all know that Kang Joon Young never lies.

 

As Young Sil is unable to hold back an impish smirk at having won this round, my husband finally relents with a sigh.

 

“Geu rae. It’s true. That did happen once, long before any of you were even born. But gwenchana,” he says, hurrying on before Young Hyun could protest. “I only used violence because everything happened so quickly and I had to act quickly before innocent people could get hurt. So, this time, Maknae-yah, your Hyung’s right.

 

“However,” he adds, putting a warning finger to his lips, “there are parts of this story, Young Sil-ah, that aren’t suitable for young ears. So I don’t want to hear any more about this until your mother and I both decide you are old enough to know the rest. Arasseo?”

 

After our older son has answered with a nod, my husband then turns to the younger one. “As for you, Young Hyun-ah,” he continues gently, “while everything sorted itself out this time, you still need to apologize to your Hyung. Remember: no matter what he does, as the younger brother, you can only ever remind him nicely, without raising your voice.” He adds a small smile when our youngest looks glumly down at the floor. “I know it’s tough, Maknae-yah, but you can do it.  That’s how you’ll show you have what it takes to become a wise and noble scholar in the future.”

 

“Ye, Abanim,” Young Hyun promises his father with a nod, followed by a short bow and mumbled apology to his brother. Then, once that is done, he glances over at me.

 

“When is the new baby coming, Eomma-mama? I don’t want to be the youngest anymore.”

 

As his two older siblings burst into laughter, Gyun Woo and I exchange glances yet again.

 

“Well,” my husband says, an amused twinkle in his eye. “It looks like he is your son after all.”

 

Author's Notes (in "Hidden Contents" because of spoilers)

 

Spoiler

Yeah, this just came together as a short little ditty - it's my first time projecting this far ahead in a sequel fic, and dealing with a second generation to boot. That presents itself with its own distinct challenges, but overall, the process was still a lot of fun  

 

So, here are some behind-the-scenes details I want to focus on today.

 

1. The Kids

 

Honestly, I think this was my favourite part: trying to think of the kids that Gyun Woo and Hye Myung might have by this point. Since there's no indication of this in the drama whatsoever, it was left entirely up to my imagination, and this particular combination (an older sister with two younger twin brothers) was the result. Why? I don't know, to be honest; I only go where the muse takes me. *shrugs*

 

I think a rough estimate of each child's personality should already be noticeable in the fic itself, so I won't elaborate too much here. However, I do want to quickly break down their names and their ages.

 

Generally speaking, in Korean culture (and in Chinese as well), parents name their children according to what they want or wish for the children as they grow up, using a combination of different Chinese characters to construct the specific meaning they are looking for. And while I can't say for sure how seriously people take this naming process, I can imagine that Gyun Woo would put a lot of thought into his children's names; we see that in the drama itself, when he brainstorms a whole list of different names for the newborn Yoon baby he's been invited to name (ultimately settling on Ga On, with the intended meaning of "beautiful and warm-hearted").

 

So, what did he come up with for his own kids? For each name, I'll also show the Chinese characters and an approximate meaning. By the way, it's not uncommon for all the children in a Korean family to have one sound/syllable in common across their names, with either the same or different Chinese characters in each one.

 

1. Sun Young - 善英("gentle/kind" + "flower petal" - by the way, the same character for "Young" is said to mean "heroic" when in a boy's name - like Kang Joon Young )

2. Young Sil - 永實 ("forever" + "honest/truthful")

3. Young Hyun - 永賢("forever" + "virtuous")

 

There is a fourth child on the way in this fic, but gender and name are as-yet unknown

 

Also, since I'm on the subject of names, I do want to quickly do the same thing for the son I imagine Kang Joon Young to have:

 

Jung Hwan - 正煥("right/proper/true" + "shining") - by the way, this is the same "Hwan" that shows up in Min Yoo Hwan's name (i.e. Hye Myung's former teacher and Joon Young's former BFF)

 

Finally, a quick break-down of the children's ages, which are again given by Korean reckoning in the fic (international reckoning in brackets):

1. Gyun Sun Young - 9(8)

2. Gyun Young Sil - 7(6)

3. Gyun Young Hyun - 7(6)

4. Kang Jung Hwan - 7(6)

 

And that's enough of that - moving on!

 

2. Yangban status in Joseon - Civil exams, social status, and why marrying a Princess actually kinda sucks

 

Chances are, if you've watched enough sageuks in the past, you'll be familiar with the gwageo: Korea's civil service exam. While it is not mandatory to have passed the gwageo in order to obtain a government position, it is required for any sort of prestigious or influential posting at court and is a requirement for yangban families to maintain their elevated status over time (the official rule is that the family needs to have at least one pass every four generations). Also, while the gwageo is technically open to men of a broad range of social classes (excluding slaves/serfs and sons born to concubines or mistresses), realistically, only the yangban had the time and money to actually let their sons spend their entire childhood, adolescence and (for many) early adulthood preparing for the exam, retaking it in case of failure, etc.

 

What's important for the purposes of this fic is that there are actually three different versions of the gwageo: mungwa (literary arts, humanities, etc.), mugwa (martial arts and military theory/strategy), and japgwa (skilled professions: sciences and technology, medicine, languages and translation, etc.). And technically, while the mungwa and the mugwa are on the same level - just catered towards potential government ministers and commissioned military officers respectively - in actual public opinion during the Joseon era, the mungwa was "better" and those who passed it were treated with greater respect.

 

So why on earth might Gyun Woo be okay with his older son studying for the mugwa instead? In addition to the reasons he actually gives in the story, I would also argue that it's because, for him and his family, he's really got nothing to lose.

 

See, there's something you need to know about marrying high-status women in heavily patriarchal societies: the marriage itself can and will throw a monkey wrench into the traditional power dynamics  In the case of Confucian societies like Joseon and Imperial China, for example, a princess's marriage puts her in a really awkward position: higher in social status than her husband because she is royal, but also lower than him because she's a woman. And in a culture or society where hierarchy, obedience to authority, etc. are absolutely paramount, that's a massive conflict of interest waiting to happen (e.g. if her husband's family develops ambitions for the crown, is she going to stand with her husband or her father/brother/etc.? Either way, she's screwed )

 

Given all the possible ways this can and will go wrong, then, it's only natural that it's the Chinese - who developed Confucian philosophy to begin with - who came up with an admittedly bizarre compromise: Buma. That's the style/term of address rather than the official title, but in essence, any man who marries a princess must forfeit any government position he already has and is also forbidden from taking any other position for the rest of his life. In other words: eliminate the potential conflict of interest by curtailing any chances that the Buma might turn into a threat to the crown.

 

Now, I'm not fully sure the extent to which this played out according to plan historically (there are numerous real-life and fictional examples where the marriages are unhappy ones), but in the context of My Sassy Girl at least, the system that's put in place ensures that the man who marries Hye Myung must love her unconditionally, because he is literally giving up his entire career (and, by extension, his pride) for her sake. And considering how fed-up with politics and court intrigue I imagine Gyun Woo would be after that whole "The Blind Mother Ruins Everything" fiasco...yeah, I don't think there's ever going to be a better candidate than that. And besides, it's not that the Buma can't do anything at all: he needs to stay out of politics, but can still continue as an independent scholar in his own right, and can even be sent abroad (e.g. to China) as an envoy or diplomat.

 

As for the children, even though their mother is of royal blood, they take after their father in terms of status: in this case, then, they're just regular yangban despite their royal ancestry.

 

So, in short, Gyun Woo is essentially starting over again from square one in terms of his family's status and upward mobility  I think he'd be willing to consider anything for his sons, as long as one of them manages to pass one version of the gwageo or another.

 

(By the way, here's a random little tidbit: while I couldn't quite figure out what title was used for Kim Tae Hyun after his marriage in Yong Pal, in the Cantonese dub I watched, he's addressed with the Chinese equivalent of "Buma". In other words: it's a title of respect, but also a subtle jab at the fact that he 1) is of a lower social status than his wife, and 2) has no real power.)

 

3. Miscellaneous Tidbits

 

First of all, credit where credit's due: you can find a recipe for omija-hwachae here. The jelly shown in this video appears to be optional (since I didn't find it in other recipes), and I omitted that from this fic for simplicity's sake.

 

 

Secondly, a brief note about artistic licence: in my research for this fic, I found some sources that said that, in a yangban family's residence, women would not cross over into the men's quarters (with particularly conservative/traditional families starting to enforce the gender boundaries for their children when they turn seven). Instead, the actual neutral meeting space would be the yard in front of the women's quarters. BUT I have yet to see that strictly enforced in any sageuk I've watched: with the exception of the royal court, wives seem to be able to enter their husbands' rooms at will - and that is definitely the case in My Sassy Girl. So, I decided to fudge with the history a little bit in allowing that sort of interaction within the Gyun household here.

 

Thirdly, a few actual JW-related Easter Eggs:

1. JW has a sweet tooth, but he also has an affinity for sour flavours (e.g. he was one of the few members of the 1N2D cast who actually enjoyed eating lemons)

2. The mention of Gyun Woo having a double crown (i.e. double hair whorls) was inspired by JW as well. Korean superstition is that a person with a double crown is fated to marry twice, but I think Gyun Woo's going to be flouting that particular perception.  

 

 

So, that's it for this fic - I hope you enjoyed it!

 

A master list of all my K-drama fics can be found under the "About Me" tab on my profile page. Thanks for your time and enjoy reading  

[kireeti2]

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

Just a quick note: I did write this with Father's Day in mind, but in truth, this is probably more a "Parent's Day" thing than strictly "Father's Day", given the extent to which the mother is involved  

So, it was "My sassy girl" all along, good job deceiving me into thinking that it was "Yong-pal", you must have learnt deception from "Art of War". Deep down I some how knew it was "My sassy girl", because of the 4 kids, but it is also uncommon in the contemporary South Korea to have more than 3 kids, since government is encouraging its citizens to have more because of declining replacement ratio of population. So I guess that's where I think I got it wrong and the word "Staff", it was one of the reason which made me choose Yong-pal. If you had used the words like "Servants, Help", then it would have been pretty obvious.

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, that's it for this fic - I hope you enjoyed it!

Now coming to the fan fic, it was heart warming and yet informative to read. Heart warming in the sense, I get to see(to be precise read) after parts of happy ending of a drama which fairly disappointed me, I guess this fan fic kind of make up for it. Informative in the sense, I get know about Korean and Chinese culture at the same time, I never knew aristocrats family members as to pass in civil service exam to maintain their social status, but it really baffles me how a system which was meant to promote merit regardless of family background riddled with corruption, at least that was I have read online, that nothing was good during in  Joseon era. The life of Admiral Yi was kind of testimony of the corrupt practices of Joseon era.

 

But I would like register a complaint regarding the predictable role of male and female child in the Family. As you pointed, that eldest one in the twin wanted to join army or aspiring to become a general of the army and serve Joseon kingdom, and the youngest one will go on to become a scholar in the court of the king or hold a government position. But the daughter in the family faith seem to be like any other girls life in that era, as the daughter of a scholar and on top of that Gyeon woo seem to be  kind of scholar who'll always question the status-quo, I was expecting he  had plans for her daughter as well or at least his daughter wanted  to become a scholar like her dad, since you have pointed out she takes after Gyeon Woo. I know it might be too radical for girl to become a scholar in that era, but it is an idea which I think it was worth exploring, if you see plots like GoT, The crown, they owe they success because of strong female character and not necessary because that female character was main lead, in case of "The crown" its success was completely because of strong female lead. Again, my view can be biased, as I look at the lens of male perspective and I clearly don't know the problems that a female might have encountered during joseon era, heck, I didn't even knew that women in developed world can also face sexual harassment at work place until "Me too movement", since I always presumed that they were better-off in first world, but I couldn't have been more wrong.

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, here are some behind-the-scenes details I want to focus on today.

This section almost answer all my doubts that popped on mind while reading the story. Like you have pointed on that kids of Gyeon Woo can never lay claim on the throne, since it is usually passed to male child of the emperor, it did crossed my mind that what happens if one of the child of Gyeon Woo wants the throne or wants to overthrow the emperor, because he is incompetent. Some where I might had read that although Confucius wanted subject of a kingdom to show complete loyalty towards their emperor, but they also have right to overthrow him if he is incompetent(correct me if I am wrong).

 

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

Kang Jung Hwan

By the way, why is the last name of the last child has been changed?

5 hours ago, kittyna said:

By the way, here's a random little tidbit: while I couldn't quite figure out what title was used for Kim Tae Hyun after his marriage in Yong Pal, in the Cantonese dub I watched, he's addressed with the Chinese equivalent of "Buma". In other words: it's a title of respect, but also a subtle jab at the fact that he 1) is of a lower social status than his wife, and 2) has no real power.)

In English it was "Master or Master of the house" something like that. Now that you mention it, I kind of find similarities between Yong-pal and My sassy girl, at least in terms of social status of the female and male leads. Both the male leads have no proper house name apart from their talent and knowledge, and female leads were basically princess and heiress in the both cases, and were previously involved romantically with someone. And both the drama had same director

[kittyna]

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

So I guess that's where I think I got it wrong and the word "Staff", it was one of the reason which made me choose Yong-pal. If you had used the words like "Servants, Help", then it would have been pretty obvious.

 

lol - To be fair, "staff" is probably not historically accurate  However, since I didn't know enough to understand master-servant relationships in the Joseon era (because serfs/slaves were a thing, but for the princess's family?) I just went with something I thought might be relatively more neutral.

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

So, it was "My sassy girl" all along, good job deceiving me into thinking that it was "Yong-pal", you must have learnt deception from "Art of War". Deep down I some how knew it was "My sassy girl", because of the 4 kids, but it is also uncommon in the contemporary South Korea to have more than 3 kids, since government is encouraging its citizens to have more because of declining replacement ratio of population.

 

Another thing I can add - since the cat's already out of the bag in terms of which drama this fic was for - is that the number of kids also doesn't correspond to the actual number of pregnancies or births involved. Somewhere between the birth of the twins and the events of this story, I imagine that they lost a child at some point - but I still haven't sorted out in my head whether that's due to a miscarriage, a stillbirth, or a baby that simply died young (all three of which happened a lot historically).

 

So many families back then did have a lot of kids, but I don't think that was universal. There were probably those who only ever did manage to have 1 or 2 survivors in the long run.  As for nowadays, since 1) children are almost certain to survive to adulthood in a developed country like South Korea; 2) the financial costs of housing, education, etc. are really high; and 3) it's hard for young people (especially women) to now juggle both a career and raising a family, the birth rate is a lot lower now, with that 1-2 kids being the norm. I don't know if the actual marriage rate has also gone down in recent years, but the birth rate definitely has.

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

but it really baffles me how a system which was meant to promote merit regardless of family background riddled with corruption, at least that was I have read online, that nothing was good during in  Joseon era. The life of Admiral Yi was kind of testimony of the corrupt practices of Joseon era.

 

Corruption and nepotism certainly were involved, but I think that systemic privileges also played a role  The reality is that prepping for and completing the examinations cost a lot of time, money, and effort - and most people outside of the upper classes just wouldn't have had those resources. Again, exceptions did exist, but that's why they're exceptions rather than the rule 

 

I also didn't get around to saying this in the original Author's Note, but the mugwa (i.e. military exam) was more accessible than the mungwa (i.e. literary exam) in terms of the candidate's family background, socio-economic status, etc. So, by extension, I wish that a drama like My Sassy Girl went more into exploring, say, Kang Joon Young's background: we have no idea what it was, but I think it would have made an interesting contrast to Gyun Woo's. If nothing else, I think his foreknowledge that there was absolutely no chance that his feelings for Princess Hye Myung could come to anything suggests that he may be from a lower social class than Gyun Woo to begin with. I'm not sure, but the thought did cross my mind.

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I would like register a complaint regarding the predictable role of male and female child in the Family. As you pointed, that eldest one in the twin wanted to join army or aspiring to become a general of the army and serve Joseon kingdom, and the youngest one will go on to become a scholar in the court of the king or hold a government position. But the daughter in the family faith seem to be like any other girls life in that era, as the daughter of a scholar and on top of that Gyeon woo seem to be  kind of scholar who'll always question the status-quo, I was expecting he  had plans for her daughter as well or at least his daughter wanted  to become a scholar like her dad, since you have pointed out she takes after Gyeon Woo.

 

That's fair - especially considering Hye Myung as a mother as well. I do want to assure you that I have something in mind for the daughter, but that it wouldn't have fit into this fic  She's more conservatively minded than her mother (it's here rather than scholarly pursuits that she takes after her father), but give me and my imagination enough time and there should be a spark in there somewhere  Just need to sort out the numerous factors (e.g. having partial royal status = more social pressure for conservatism, the parents' own more unconventional personalities, etc.) first.

 

Female scholars were definitely extremely outside of the norm in Joseon, and I wonder if any actually existed - hard to tell, because I imagine they'd have to adopt male-sounding pseudonyms to pull it off. However, we do know that there were female authors and artists among the upper classes (e.g. Shin Saimdang - if you haven't looked her up before, you should), even if their level of education was still unusual at the time. And Hye Myung's interest in medicine could open up a less conventional (since physicians tended to be recruited from the lower classes) but not impossible avenue for her daughter.

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Some where I might had read that although Confucius wanted subject of a kingdom to show complete loyalty towards their emperor, but they also have right to overthrow him if he is incompetent(correct me if I am wrong).

 

Ah. That does exist - it's the "Mandate of Heaven" concept - but the chances of that clause being invoked rightly or justly is slim to none  Anyone who tries to overthrow the government will likely use this idea to gather up followers, but it's the whole "Who's the freedom fighter and who's the terrorist?" question: are the people who do this actually in the right? 

 

Definitely, though, any attempt to overturn the government like this will be met with a lot of resistance from the powers that be - who also have the more conventional system of allegiances under Confucian philosophy as their main ammunition. So in reality, it all just turns into a massive mess, and whether the resistance ends up being recorded as a revolution or a rebellion in history depends solely on the outcome.

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way, why is the last name of the last child has been changed?

 

Because that's Kang Joon Young's kid  I added him to the Author's Note simply because I wound up mentioning him in the fic (even if he doesn't appear in person).

 

2 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

In English it was "Master or Master of the house" something like that.

 

Which is funny, because "Master" - especially in more old school English circles - has a similar dual meaning: it can refer to the person in charge (e.g. in a master-servant relationship), but it's also the term of address used by a boy who's not yet of age (i.e. a child would be addressed as "Master" and a man as "Mister"). It's really old-school, and not many people do that anymore, but that's what it meant among the literati/intelligentsia or the old blood upper class.

[kireeti2]

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Kang Joon Young's background

Guess you got hit by  second lead syndrome, happens to best of us

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

"Mandate of Heaven" concept

Yeah, I did heard about it. But that concept is so abstract, like everything from drought to floods is linked to that concept. Like when there is a disaster some opportunist feel say it is sign that emperor or empress(yeah I did read somewhere that they were empress as well who ruled ancient china) lost the mandate of heaven. But my interpretation is that Confucius saw the relationship between Emperor and his subjects as father-son relationship. He believed that to create a moral society family values play a major role in inculcating those moral values in an individual. So, according to him a son must obey and follow his father's orders only if he is fulfilling his duties as a father, other wise the son as a choice to disobey or in case of subjects to rebel.

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

"Who's the freedom fighter and who's the terrorist?"

I would like to treat carefully with these words, especially in this day and age of technology. It's not a concept we can apply in ancient times rebellions. In ancient world it was mostly about commoners rebelling against king only in the times of famine and against excessive taxes.In ancient times rebellions were simple no food so rebel, there was no concept of rights against the emperor.I thinks the first country to adopt rights for it's citizens was Great Britain that too in late 17th century and after that it was USA in early 18th century . This concept of "freedom fighter and te***st", came after the colonization of South East Asia, Asia, Africa and South America by imperial states of the west. And then we can see how these words were interchanged and justified use of violence by some groups,  especially in conflict zones. I am sorry if I had said too much, but these words were kind of trigger words for me, obviously you didn't knew about that but I just thought I should give my cents about these two concepts that every peaceful protestor fighting for rights his/her or for his/her fellow citizens rights is a freedom fighter and other than that any act of violence no matter how brutal the regime or state is not justified and that act is a terrorism, no matter on whom it has been used. Ends does not  justify the means period

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Which is funny, because "Master"

Maybe they used it remind Kim Tae Hyun his place, like you are just a boy and don't think you are equal with other members of the company oligarchs just because you married Heiress

[kittyna]

So, I'll come back with a proper reply later, but right now, I just want to get this out there and set in the permanent record on this forum before it gets buried elsewhere:

 

As of today, June 19, 2020, embedded Instagram posts won't be allowed on this forum. There's more info here, but really, what matters is that it's due to embedded social media posts occupying a legal grey area in terms of copyright, (un)authorized use, etc.

 

As a fan, it's a bit of a bummer. But as a content creator on this forum (albeit as a writer), I can understand why artists, photographers, etc. on Instagram don't want their stuff to just be spread online without their knowledge or consent. After all, even if the first share is legitimate, who knows what is done with that embedded image by other users afterwards - and if anything does go wrong, who's legally or morally responsible?

 

I don't know the extent to which this will be applied retroactively - i.e., I don't know if images from previous posts here will just start disappearing - but if they do, I understand that the moderators are well within their rights to do so and they're only doing so to protect us fans from potential lawsuits and other hiccups in the future.

 

So what does that mean for posting updates we find on Instagram (since that's predominantly how JW's English-language fandom operates)? For now, my understanding that sharing Instagram posts as hyperlinks is okay (since the copyrighted content isn't being circulated itself and traffic is always directed back to the original source), so that's what I'll be doing if I really need to share something.

 

But I probably won't share images just for the heck of it from now on, since there's no point in adding to a potential risk - good thing I'm still a writer  

[kireeti2]

40 minutes ago, kittyna said:

embedded Instagram posts

What's an embedded Instagram posts? I usually copy the URL link while posting(is that what embedded means?). Do you mean to say that I cannot do it anymore?  I tried googling it but it left with more questions than answers, could you explain it to me in plain English? If it's not too much to ask. I am fairly new to this forum

[kittyna]

21 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

What's an embedded Instagram posts? I usually copy the URL link while posting(is that what embedded means?). Do you mean to say that I cannot do it anymore?  I tried googling it but it left with more questions than answers, could you explain it to me in plain English? If it's not too much to ask. I am fairly new to this forum

 

Yeah - so when you copy and paste a URL link to an Instagram post or a YouTube video, the image or video just appears on its own. That's what embedding means and that's what's not allowed anymore.

 

(Using a YouTube video here for demonstration purposes)

 

So, if I just put in the URL without doing anything, it ends up like this:

 

 

That happens automatically, and that's called an "embedded" post. And in the case of posts from Instagram, that's what's no longer allowed until further notice.

 

So how do I post a video or Instagram post without that happening? On this Soompi forum, there are two different ways:

 

1. Overriding the embedding process

 

When you share a link, notice that while the content embeds automatically, there is some fine print saying "Display as a link instead". If you click that, the URL just appears as a clickable link without the actual video/image:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8dKSWcW0HI

 

2. Posting a hyperlink

 

In this case, you click on the button to insert a link, and paste the URL you want to post there. What's great about this feature is that instead of just the URL, you can change the text under which the link is displayed:

 

Behind-the-scenes video from My Sassy Girl

 

So, there you go: three different ways of sharing the exact same content here on Soompi. Right now, it's the first automatic method that's being restricted, so try to use two workarounds (either the override or the hyperlink) instead whenever possible  Hope this helps!

 

[kireeti2]

Lol! this behind the scene of My sassy girl drama is way funnier Behind the scene of My sassy girl Oh, thanks for this tip. Now  I don't have to insert entire link and give context to my posts@kittyna

17 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Yeah - so when you copy and paste a URL link to an Instagram post or a YouTube video, the image or video just appears on its own. That's what embedding means and that's what's not allowed anymore.

To be honest, I never liked that feature. It made my posts look lengthy and complicated for me to read it again . I guess it's blessing in disguise for likes of me

[kittyna]

24 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol! this behind the scene of My sassy girl drama is way funnier Behind the scene of My sassy girl

 

Oh, yeah - that video's awesome, too  I just went with the first one I found on such short notice for demo purposes, but the whole series of clips is hilarious. 

 

24 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

To be honest, I never liked that feature. It made my posts look lengthy and complicated for me to read it again . I guess it's blessing in disguise for likes of me

 

Both versions have their pros and cons, in my opinion - embedded images take up more space, but don't require as many tabs on your browser once you open them up. Also, since I use my laptop for going on Soompi, I wonder which method is easier to read for viewers using their phones - anybody?

 

That being said, now I can finally get to my actual scheduled replies

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But the daughter in the family faith seem to be like any other girls life in that era, as the daughter of a scholar and on top of that Gyeon woo seem to be  kind of scholar who'll always question the status-quo, I was expecting he  had plans for her daughter as well or at least his daughter wanted  to become a scholar like her dad, since you have pointed out she takes after Gyeon Woo. I know it might be too radical for girl to become a scholar in that era, but it is an idea which I think it was worth exploring, if you see plots like GoT, The crown, they owe they success because of strong female character and not necessary because that female character was main lead, in case of "The crown" its success was completely because of strong female lead.

 

Just want to return to this point for a second - because I want to make it clear that being a strong woman is not a zero-sum game. At least, not in the way I see it. A girl or woman can have a strong or resilient personality or possess strong leadership skills while still following more traditional gender roles - I'm sure we all know a housewife or mother who's like that, for example  And that's why I also brought up Shin Saimdang earlier: because she's a Joseon-era woman who managed to establish herself as an artist and the main influence/power in her household (her husband was a piece of work, and her children seemed to take after her more) without actually stepping outside the Confucian boundaries. Again - it's not a zero-sum game, but more of a spectrum  

 

That being said, I imagine the gender roles were probably more rigidly divided and enforced in Joseon compared to today's Confucian cultures, with sageuks like My Sassy Girl trying to fall somewhere in between: just old-fashioned enough that you're not dealing with 21st century personalities in period costume (although Hye Myung does admittedly come close), but not so authentic to the historical period that it feels off-putting to modern audiences.

 

I hope that inspiration strikes in such a way that I could continue to explore this further, but for now, there are some ways in which Gyun Woo and Hye Myung as spouses and as parents differ from their own predecessors:

• In their discussions about their children, they are equals. While Gyun Woo might be the one to pass on the results of said conversations to their children, in accordance to his traditional role as the head of the household, Hye Myung offers a lot of behind-the-scenes input.
• Gyun Woo being a relatively attentive husband and father in general. Many men in these cultures (historically and in the present) just focus on making a living and supporting the family financially, but don't take on a hands-on role in taking care of their spouses and children. 
• Hye Myung being educated and able to think critically about a situation. Unlike, say, Gyun Woo's mother, she's not going to spoil her kids simply because they're hers: instead, she tries to teach them to be considerate of others from an early age, including not giving extra work to the servants (lol - now that I think about it, that's sort of like Yong Pal as well)

We're not there yet by a long stretch, but I think that they will insist on love matches for their children - especially their daughter. However, it's this awareness that their daughter will eventually have to marry that complicates how they end up raising her. I'm sure that as individual parents, Gyun Woo and Hye Myung would like for their daughter to be strong and independent like her mother - but Gyun Woo is already an exception to the rule for accepting that behaviour from Hye Myung, so how realistic would it be to expect that their daughter would find a suitor like that as well?

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Guess you got hit by  second lead syndrome, happens to best of us

 

Not necessarily Second Lead Syndrome - at least, not to the point where I actually prefer him to the first lead - but I do think the drama did a successful job of making Kang Joon Young an appealing three-dimensional character in his own right. Usually, those are the characters that end up intriguing me the most: a character who is somewhat multifaceted but is still not completely 100% developed is the type that ends up intriguing me and getting my creative juices flowing. I can't do that with flat or one-dimensional characters (like the second female lead of My Sassy Girl, for instance).

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But my interpretation is that Confucius saw the relationship between Emperor and his subjects as father-son relationship. He believed that to create a moral society family values play a major role in inculcating those moral values in an individual. So, according to him a son must obey and follow his father's orders only if he is fulfilling his duties as a father, other wise the son as a choice to disobey or in case of subjects to rebel.

 

I wish I knew more about the official rules, but I can say what I know from lived experience. As one of the youngest in my own family, my situation is a bit like what I described for Young Hyun (the younger twin) in my fic: I can point out when my elders are doing something wrong - and I can even choose to go my own way if I discover they're trying to push me to do wrong - but I cannot scold or fight against them outright. That's going too far.

 

So, say, Young Hyun could remind his older brother to play nicely with him, but he can't actually yell at him and be all like, "You're so mean!" (Kiddie example, I know - but there you go)

 

I imagine the same dynamic applies in a monarch-subject relationship: the monarch cannot force the subject to do something morally wrong, and the subject does have the right to speak up and advise the monarch if his/her rank so allows, but the subject must continue to respect the monarch's position.

 

Or, to use an example from democracy: I can dislike the current President or Prime Minister as an individual and think that he/she is doing a bad job, but I cannot use that as an excuse to start a riot or plot to take them down. Under Confucian principles, my responsibility as a citizen would be to 1) obey the laws on my own, and 2) vote for someone better when the time comes.

 

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I would like to treat carefully with these words, especially in this day and age of technology.

 

I know - I'm only using those two terms because it's the classic paradox ("The difference between X and Y is which side of the gun you're on."). In actuality, I don't condone any sort of violent protest or actions that end up hurting the lives or livelihoods of innocent people.

 

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Maybe they used it remind Kim Tae Hyun his place, like you are just a boy and don't think you are equal with other members of the company oligarchs just because you married Heiress

 

Yeah, something like that - at least it was there in the Cantonese version  

[kireeti2]

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

. Also, since I use my laptop for going on Soompi, I wonder which method is easier to read for viewers using their phones - anybody?

I can give you some insights about soompi on mobile version, it's tormenting to post using mobile browser, every time you press enter key on mobile virtual keyboard it automatically scrolls up and you have to manually scroll down to the point where you want to type. If I want to torture someone I'll ask him/her to do a lengthy post on soompi using mobile browser, that would definitely break him/her down mentally and physically

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

Shin Saimdang

Whoa!! I did looked her up, she was way ahead of her time

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

As one of the youngest in my own family, my situation is a bit like what I described for Young Hyun (the younger twin) in my fic: I can point out when my elders are doing something wrong - and I can even choose to go my own way if I discover they're trying to push me to do wrong - but I cannot scold or fight against them outright. That's going too far.

Jeez! you must had tough childhood growing up with elder siblings Being youngest in the family is like paradox, you are  the one to be loved the most out all your brothers/sisters(especially by mom) and also manipulated by most. In my case, I am complicit with my little brother in all the stupid things he and I do, and keep it to ourselves. Like they say "nobody likes a snitch"

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

but I cannot use that as an excuse to start a riot or plot to take them down.

Lol! This is where I lost and burst into laughter, for a minute I was reading about family relations, then about Monarch and then suddenly I am reading about toppling of government and riots. I was like "well that escalated quickly"

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

. Under Confucian principles

But I feel like under Confucian principles there is no concept of dissent or room for protest, since that's why china is trying to revive Confucianism, after totally discarding him during cultural revolution. But in modern liberal democracy you can change the government policies or if not at least influence them by forming pressure groups, and protest peacefully against decisions of government. Does these acts are seen as treason under Confucian principles?

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

I know - I'm only using those two terms because it's the classic paradox ("The difference between X and Y is which side of the gun you're on."). In actuality, I don't condone any sort of violent protest or actions that end up hurting the lives or livelihoods of innocent people.

Yeah, I know that, again my apologies. I too felt like my reply was more like lashing out than explanatory. It is just, this grey area interpretation had led to perpetual conflict in West Asia and it had spill over effect in my South-Asia region also. It's not just about violence and loss of life and material, but also destruction of social fabric of every country that suffers because of these conflicts and in my country we highly rely on these social fabrics to gains trust and get along with each other.

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

so how realistic would it be to expect that their daughter would find a suitor like that as well?

I am sure you'll come up with something as a writer

[kittyna]

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I feel like under Confucian principles there is no concept of dissent or room for protest, since that's why china is trying to revive Confucianism, after totally discarding him during cultural revolution. But in modern liberal democracy you can change the government policies or if not at least influence them by forming pressure groups, and protest peacefully against decisions of government. Does these acts are seen as treason under Confucian principles?

 

There is room for protest, but what I've seen seems to be done peacefully - I don't know how it works in China (either historically or today), but what I've learned from watching sageuks at least is that scholars will hold sit-in demonstrations, post/distribute flyers and pamphlets, try to sway the king's council one way or another through honest debate, etc. Which, by the way, are all tactics we see in My Sassy Girl 

 

Where things can go wrong is when there is either an incompetent/immoral leader OR when a person who is corrupt and has ulterior motives manages to manipulate innocent idealistic people to their ends. In the case of My Sassy Girl, it's definitely the latter: Minister Jung's schemes are at their most effective when he manages to manipulate events so that they spark moral outrage in upright and idealistic Confucian scholars (like mini Gyun Woo). In those cases, what was originally a legal and moral form of protest (e.g. Gyun Woo's pamphlet) ends up crossing the line into treason - oftentimes, without the youthful scholars'even being aware of it, so subtly have they been manipulated.

 

In theory, Confucianism is meant to teach a series of guiding doctrines, values, and principles - of which deference to authority is only one. That might be the most stereotypically prominent aspect of it, but there's also a lot more - like learning to practice moderation or cultivate critical thought or self-discipline.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Jeez! you most had tough childhood growing up with elder siblings Being youngest in the family is like paradox, you are  the one to be loved the most out all your brothers/sisters(especially by mom) and also manipulated by most.

 

No, I didn't run into those issues growing up  Because if my job was to obey my elders, then their responsibility was to be careful in terms of what they asked me to do. It's what you see in the hyung-dongsaeng relationships on shows like 1N2D: JW's role as the maknae is to follow his hyungs' lead, but their role is to make sure he's provided for and set a good example for him to follow.

 

Because really, the best way of thinking about Confucian principles is that everything is built on relationships and each party's commitment to that relationship. So, say, a child's responsibility is to respect their parents, but the parents are equally responsible for behaving in ways that merit that respect. And relationships are seen to parallel each other: for instance, if a son shows disrespect to his parents, then his ability to submit to his employer or treat his friends failry is also called into question. By the way, this is probably also why JW uses a girl's attitude towards her parents as his main benchmark for whether he'd be interested in dating her: the respect (or lack thereof) she shows her parents becomes an indicator of how well she respects others (or not) more generally  

 

To be frank, that does work a whole ton better in theory than in practice, but if both parties are equally committed to making it work, things can actually run quite smoothly.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Whoa!! I did looked her up, she was way ahead of her time

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I am sure you'll come up with something as a writer

 

lol - I might have to take a few pages from Shin Saimdang's book, then  I think it's interesting that her father wanted his daughters to be just as well-educated as sons would have been (albeit because the family had no sons) and that he insisted that whoever married his daughter must be okay with her continuing her artistic pursuits. She might not have been able to become a scholar, but she wound up being able to pass that on to her own children.

[kittyna]

So, @kireeti2, your questions started to make me really curious about just how exactly Confucianism functioned in Joseon society - especially in relation to politics and family life. And I found a couple of interesting sites that describe things quite thoroughly in layman's terms:

 

Confucianism and Korea - Part III: Confucianism in Pre-Modern Korea

 

Society in the Joseon Dynasty - Yes, this one's Wikipedia, but I don't really care that it is  It's still thorough and well-cited

 

Looking at these sources together, it does seem like there was leeway for people to petition the government (again: think back to the posters and pamphlets you see a lot in sageuks). However, it's also worth noting the key differences between a Confucian society and a more Westernized liberal democracy: Confucianism focuses on one's moral obligation to the group, while liberal democracy focuses on one's rights as an individual under the law. Both systems can cultivate good moral citizens as a result - but the driving mechanism is completely different.

 

One example of how I tried to work this into the fic is in "blink and you'll miss it" moments like these:

 

Quote

“‘The virtues of a Commander are wisdom, sincerity, benevolence, courage, and strictness,’” his father answers. “If you cannot even control or discipline yourself, how can you expect to lead others by example?”

 

Quote

“Now that that’s settled, go tidy yourself back up and join us on the terrace. Your mother and sister have taken the time to prepare a refreshment for all of us, so we shouldn’t let their hard work go to waste.”

 

In both instances, the motivation or incentive for good behaviour is about its impact on others: you need to behave well in order to lead others by example; others put in so much time and effort for you, so you should be thankful, etc. And that's how moral and ethical codes are structured in Confucianism - again, it's about relationships and each party's role in that relationship.

 

This is also why many East Asian cultures (including Chinese and Korean) are oftentimes called "collectivist" cultures, whereas, say, North American culture is "individualist".

[kireeti2]

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

There is room for protest, but what I've seen seems to be done peacefully

Yeah, I did saw these protest happen in dramas like "Kingdom" and "My sassy girl", but those protest were triggered by due to the succession issues or because rumours of queen being unfaithful to the emperor. Not for the plight of commoners or anything as such.
 

 

12 hours ago, kittyna said:

relationships and each party's role in that relationship.

Yeah, like participatory governance , sometimes it almost felt like Confucius wanted to run family like government. Here my intention of using "government" word is in positive way, like in government everyone as stake and so it makes sense for everyone to play their role sincerely to achieve collective good. But of course like ever other institution family institution as its own short comings, like rigid hierarchy, conformity, no room for evolving with time. On the other hand individuality concept is more flexible and has more room for improvement. But individuality can lead depression and lack of belongingness. But I think both these Individualism and collectivism philosophies have good and bad side, maybe they both can learn from each other in-order to fix their short comings(like applying post-modernism) rather than using them against each other like in most cases it happens. One takes the side of individualism and someone takes the side of collectivism, and start debating which is the best and which is  worst.

 

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

By the way, this is probably also why JW uses a girl's attitude towards her parents as his main benchmark for whether he'd be interested in dating her: the respect (or lack thereof) she shows her parents becomes an indicator of how well she respects others (or not) more generally  

Yeah, now that you mention it, maybe that's why he uses the benchmark in a girl how well she treats her elders. He really is a joseon era guy, not that there is something wrong in being one,  Like Hegel said every era has it's own good, bad and ugly side. I glad Joo won choose the good thing from that era.

 

[kittyna]

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, I did saw these protest happen in dramas like "Kingdom" and "My sassy girl", but those protest were triggered by due to the succession issues or because rumours of queen being unfaithful to the emperor. Not for the plight of commoners or anything as such.

 

Well, the system is only ever going to be as good as the people who use it - and we can't deny that many of those in power are going to be far more interested in amassing or maintaining their power and influence than in helping others around them. The ideal Confucian scholar (called junzi in Chinese and seonbi in Korean) is just that: an ideal. In actual practice, many scholars, government ministers, etc. fell short of that - and even those who did try could find their interests curtailed (e.g. a minister who cares for the people would oftentimes be drowned out or outwitted by the more corrupt or selfish ones around him). However, the point was really whether one's heart and intentions were in the right place.

 

I don't know which sageuks you have seen, but I have found that the ones that don't engage as directly with court intrigue and politics will cover a broader range of issues that are probably the actual main topics for discussion in council but aren't as dramatic. For example: Jang Yeong Sil shows how the early Joseon government appealed to the king during times of famine, but also a more conservative resistance to the development of hangeul script; and while it was used for a personal request, Goddess of Fire has a scene of a commoner presenting an oral petition by beating a drum set up outside the palace for that purpose. 

 

However, since it is discussing My Sassy Girl that started this...I think we can reasonably argue that Gyun Woo and his father are trying to live by the seonbi ideal. Minister Gyun is definitely personally conscious about what commoners went through (note the scene where he scolds his wife for wasting red beans that "the people put blood, sweat, and tears into growing" on a superstitious ritual), and while it does take getting to know Hye Myung for Gyun Woo to fully realize the inequalities around him (boy did grow up in his own studying-focused bubble there ), we can argue that he only spoke up about the Queen's supposed infidelity because innocent people (e.g. the brush seller and his family) had been harmed. Add to that the fact that Gyun Woo is generally more interested in education than power (which Hye Myung explicitly points out is unusual - she's surprised that of all the positions he could ask for, he still just asks to be the Prince's tutor), and you get the idea.

 

Mind you, though: one of the major caveats of this was that the seonbi were seldom active in politics.  And even if they were, they were vulnerable to getting booted out for offending the wrong people.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I think both these Individualism and collectivism philosophies have good and bad side, maybe they both can learn from each other in-order to fix their short comings(like applying post-modernism) rather than using them against each other like in most cases it happens. One takes the side of individualism and someone takes the side of collectivism, and start debating which is the best and which is  worst.

 

As someone who is constantly simultaneously exposed to both systems of thought...it's amazing just how deeply tenets from each end up ingrained into my personality and character. Confucianism has always been a part of how I was brought up, but I wasn't actually consciously aware of that until I started watching Korean dramas - that's when I realized that what I thought of as just "Chinese manners" were rooted in an entire system of philosophy that's really become a fundamental part of my worldview.

 

For instance, whenever I'm in a new social group or environment, I instinctively immediately start trying to figure out where I'd fit in a hierarchy: who's older/younger than me, who's more/less experienced than me, etc. Which, considering I'm in Canada where asking things like age or position outright is impolite, involves a good deal of subtlety and observation. Yet, somehow, I know I'd end up pretty socially lost without it, so I do it anyway.  Or, even if I disliked a teacher when I was a kid, I wouldn't join my peers in criticizing him/her, but instead just accept that even if the teacher was overly strict or not always fair, that was no excuse to show disrespect, slack off in class, etc.

 

That's something that might sound odd from a 21st century liberal democratic perspective... but that's simply how I am.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, now that you mention it, maybe that's why he uses the benchmark in a girl how well she treats her elders. He really is a joseon era guy, not that there is something wrong in being one,  Like Hegel said every ear has it's own good, bad and ugly side. I glad Joo won choose the good thing from that era.

 

And, at least according to earlier interviews like Win Win and Healing Camp, he's also more generally traditional than his peers in his views towards family relationships, dating/romance/marriage, etc.

[kireeti2]

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Hye Myung for Gyun Woo to fully realize the inequalities around him

That was kind of unique, since as princess she was the one should be living in a bubble shielding her from all the bad things of the societies like inequalities, diseases, poverty and Gyun Woo should have been the enlightened one

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

which Hye Myung explicitly points out is unusual - she's surprised that of all the positions he could ask for, he still just asks to be the Prince's tutor

Yeah was quite bookish scholar at some point he did realized it. I did find his educations was not holistic

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I don't know which sageuks you have seen

Not many, I have seen handful to find out that these dramas were either trying to incorporate modern love story into historic events or either it is mostly about wars, latter one is my favorite(I thoroughly enjoyed Kingdom even though it was not historically accurate but it was intriguing and engaging) But when I compare them with western historic drama I find Korean's historic drama quite boring.

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

As someone who is constantly simultaneously exposed to both systems of thought

Oh, I wonder which system prevails when both the systems come into conflict? Is it more of personal preference? Or Does it depend on situation?

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

socially lost without it, so I do it anyway.

So, let me get this straight, you feel anxious if you don't know the age or position of person when you meet him/her for the first time.

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

even if I disliked a teacher when I was a kid, I wouldn't join my peers in criticizing him/her, but instead just accept that even if the teacher was overly strict or not always fair, that was no excuse to show disrespect, slack off in class, etc.

Lol! It did sounded like an answer something Joo won give, say had he been asked such question The way I see it you both had boring student lives No wonder you are  fan of Joo won

 

[kittyna]

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol! It did sounded like an answer something Joo won give, say had he been asked such question The way I see it you both had boring student lives No wonder you are  fan of Joo won

 

I'm not gonna lie - I actually first became a fan because I found JW so relatable  I think he's got a better track record than me in terms of "respecting authority" (because there are times when I don't hold back criticism whereas he sounds like he just always holds it in), but that sense of...I dunno, not really feeling a strong desire to push back or rebel in the first place was what I saw us having in common.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Oh, I wonder which system prevails when both the systems come into conflict? Is it more of personal preference? Or Does it depend on situation?

 

Different people will answer that question differently. But for me, personally, I think I veer slightly more to the Confucian side of things - it's more in line with my innate personality (introverted, knowledge/learning-oriented, non-confrontational, hierarchically conscious, etc.). However, I wouldn't be surprised if many people in my shoes would answer the complete opposite.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

So, let me get this straight, you feel anxious if you don't know the age or position of person when you meet him/her for the first time.

 

If it's just one other person, it's fine - because chances are, I'm already going in knowing who that person will be (e.g. a teacher, an employer, a junior or mentee, a client, etc.). It gets a bit tougher when I'm entering a group for the first time, though: because then, the chances of my actually falling somewhere in the middle (rather than at the very top or very bottom) are higher.

 

It's not something that makes me feel anxious, though. Rather, I've found that it's something I just do automatically: who's the leader, who's more experienced than me, who's got skills I lack and vice-versa, etc. Not so much age, though - since that's not what actually matters in Canadian contexts.

 

So, let me give you an example. Imagine it's the first day of a new class and I've just walked into the classroom without knowing anybody there. Immediately, I start trying to figure out who the instructor is, who the TAs (i.e. assistant instructors) are if there are any, who already knows each other and has established a social group and who hasn't, etc. Then, once the class actually starts, I make sure to be an active participant myself, but I'm also paying close attention to who else is actively participating: do we agree or disagree on the point of discussion, is this person in agreement with the professor or not, is this someone I'd want to be friends with, etc.

 

In short: I instinctively start trying to figure out 1) if this is a group I want to fit into; and 2) where exactly I'd fit if I do.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

That was kind of unique, since as princess she was the one should be living in a bubble shielding her from all the bad things of the societies like inequalities, diseases, poverty and Gyun Woo should have been the enlightened one

 

I think Hye Myung was in a slight bubble as well - she knew what people were going through in theory, but I remember just how much of a reality check reading the loan sharks' ledger was for her. On the flip side, Gyun Woo knew what to do in theory (e.g. saying that people shouldn't be picky eaters since many are thankful just to have food at all), but struggled with putting it into practice (e.g. trying the actual commoners' food).

 

Real-life Joseon princesses, though...extremely  sheltered. 

 

By the way, sharing behind-the-scenes clips from My Sassy Girl kinda sent me down a YouTube rabbit hole, which led to my rediscovering this clip here. I watched it way back when, before I even watched the drama, so it was interesting to watch it a second time afterwards, now actually able to understand each scene in context.

 

And that's how I realized that the fight scene choreography between Gyun Woo and Minister Jung from the finale was changed partway through filming. What the actors did in rehearsal and what actually wound up on film are two different things - and I'd never noticed that before. Personally, in terms of what it says about Gyun Woo as a character, I like the final version - how about you?

[kireeti2]

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

how about you?

Final version or  should I say climax was confusing for me though. I didn't knew Gyun Woo can fight, I know that he did fight in the past, but not with a sword or like a warrior, that came as a shock to me.

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

I think Hye Myung was in a slight bubble as well - she knew what people were going through in theory, but I remember just how much of a reality check reading the loan sharks' ledger was for her

Interesting take and by the way that scene was funny as hell

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, let me give you an example. Imagine it's the first day of a new class and I've just walked into the classroom without knowing anybody there. Immediately, I start trying to figure out who the instructor is, who the TAs (i.e. assistant instructors) are if there are any, who already knows each other and has established a social group and who hasn't, etc. Then, once the class actually starts, I make sure to be an active participant myself, but I'm also paying close attention to who else is actively participating: do we agree or disagree on the point of discussion, is this person in agreement with the professor or not, is this someone I'd want to be friends with, etc.

Wow! You go through a lot of thinking process on first day of your class. I usually follow Taoism, let the things take it own course, I often find that controlling things is not such a good idea, somethings are uncontrollable and a lot things are out of our control

 

[kireeti2]

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

Different people will answer that question differently. But for me, personally, I think I veer slightly more to the Confucian side of things - it's more in line with my innate personality (introverted, knowledge/learning-oriented, non-confrontational, hierarchically conscious, etc.). However, I wouldn't be surprised if many people in my shoes would answer the complete opposite.

That's quite surprising answer, as you said in the past that you were born and brought up in Canada, I was expecting you would side with individualism . Anyway, as long as a person is comfortable with the life style she/he choose to follow, I think it is immaterial  if it is West/East

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

In short: I instinctively start trying to figure out 1) if this is a group I want to fit into; and 2) where exactly I'd fit if I do.

Lol! That's so Joo won thing to do. He follows the same thing in choosing friends or getting into a relationship. In an interview he did mentioned that "If he find girl he likes, first he would observe her behavior and then approach her", guess you are applying same thing in choosing a circle or friends

[kireeti2]

By the way its Oh Yeon-seo's birthday, so let us wish our sassy a girl a very happy birthday  and South china morning post has written an interesting piece on her(it's more like 5 things about a celeb), there were lot of similarities between her and Joo won, for instance, she too had a name change, she was also trained for different career but ended up taking acting as a career, and top of that she wants to play a antagonist with sad background story, which joo won had already done a few

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/news-trends/article/3089790/oh-yeon-seo-korean-drama-star-and-former-k-pop-girl

[kittyna]

22 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Wow! You go through a lot of thinking process on first day of your class. I usually follow Taoism, let the things take it own course, I often find that controlling things is not such a good idea, somethings are uncontrollable and a lot things are out of our control

 

18 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol! That's so Joo won thing to do. He follows the same thing in choosing friends or getting into a relationship. In an interview he did mentioned that "If he find girl he likes, first he would observe her behavior and then approach her", guess you are applying same thing in choosing a circle or friends

 

I don't try to control things - I just try to assess the situation and control my expectations/behaviour/etc. accordingly.  What can I say? I've had times when friends or people I looked up to wound up letting me down, so I'm naturally more cautious than I used to be.

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way its Oh Yeon-seo's birthday, so let us wish our sassy a girl a very happy birthday  and South china morning post has written an interesting piece on her(it's more like 5 things about a celeb), there were lot of similarities between her and Joo won, for instance, she too had a name change, she was also trained for different career but ended up taking acting as a career, and top of that she wants to play a antagonist with sad background story, which joo won had already done a few

 

Thanks for sharing  I hadn't known much about Oh Yeon Seo, despite watching several of her dramas - and I agree with that article's assessment that she tends to play strong-willed tomboyish characters, as that's a pretty consistent thing across all the roles I've seen from her so far (for those who are wondering: Shine or Go Crazy, Medical Top Team, and My Sassy Girl).

 

But I have to wonder: what "different career" would JW have been training for before he became an actor? Or do you simply mean that he started off on stage?

 

22 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Final version or  should I say climax was confusing for me though. I didn't knew Gyun Woo can fight, I know that he did fight in the past, but not with a sword or like a warrior, that came as a shock to me.

 

lol - I think they were going for Gaksital-style fan service there  

 

However, I actually think that characterization might be why they ultimately changed the choreography  Because the original rehearsed version shows Gyun Woo having a good deal more prowess with a sword than might make sense for his background, personality, etc. - for those who haven't seen it, the rehearsed choreography shows the original slash to Minister Jung's neck, but follows with a parry (because Minister Jung rushes them again) and thrust to the abdomen, with the last being what ultimately kills him. Also, after comparing the rehearsal footage with the finalized shot in the drama, that first slash was done differently, too: the original appears to go across the entire neck, whereas the final version just strikes one side.

 

So why am I saying it's a reflection of Gyun Woo's character? Because the finalized version of the choreography (i.e. what we actually see in the drama) feels to me like an impulsive move: it's a knee-jerk, "OMG, he actually got past Lieutenant Kang - I gotta do something!" sort of reaction. By contrast, the rehearsal version makes Gyun Woo feel more like a seasoned swordsman or warrior - which, given what we've seen of him up to this point in the drama, would have been out of character.

 

Not that Gyun Woo can't hold his own in a fight - but most of what he knows seems to be defensive rather than offensive in nature. For instance, he uses a lot of kicks in close-quarter fights, but the kicks tend to be pretty low: more like he's just trying to force his opponent back than actually hurt them. As for the fan fight...that, incidentally, appears to be his best weapon - although his archery is also pretty impressive. That bit about the archery is historically accurate, too: most yangban men, regardless of whether they focused on the literary or military arts, did practice archery.