lclarakl
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Posts posted by lclarakl
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A good episode again. I'm glad that the women being harassed decided to do something.
Finally, the thing I wanted to see more than anything as a woman was SJ to be a strong woman and stand up against sexual harassment. I loved how SG told her to stop using others as an excuse to hide behind. She deserved better and thankfully, SG helped her see that.
SJ and SG are an ideal couple. She draws a line as to how their relationship will work, and he redraws it to bring it into a 'normal' type relationship. I also hope we see her start her own business.
Side note: The writer depicted SJ as a contradiction. In this episode she told Mr. Park how she avoided telling him when she was out sick for fear he would say something about her period, or she wouldn't say that she went out of town on vacation because he would then ask about her boyfriend--it has been absolutely horrible for her. The contradictions for me is a person trying to avoid this type of harassment would definitely have taken steps to wear a bra at work; if she's avoiding saying simple things like telling him she was out sick, then this type of person would definitely take measures to avoid things that cause both women and men to talk. So I can't help but feel a subliminal message is being sent to women in this drama---probably from Wonder Bra, if you don't wear a bra, you will be sexually harassed. If you don't wear a bra, you will be seen as an escort. If you don't wear a bra, men will think you're easy. Even your friends will talk about it.
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2 hours ago, cherryblossomkawai said:
When you think about it, the wedding and cohabitation between SH and JH was vital.
SH need to face his past and let go to focus on his future.
JH need to face her almost rape to write again. Both moments were so traumatic that JH and SH press pause on their future.
That’s sad and at the same time beautiful.
They are each other saviors.
I was afraid that the rape wasn’t going to be resolved. But sometimes I forgot about it when JH took decisions. Everytime, it was in her head. In reality, she was in her room, on her own. I just didn’t realize it.
You know what I find so interesting about SH and JH both confronting their Room 19, is JM is a key for both of them. She's wanting to help JH write again and deal with he almost rape. We have JM also coming face to face with SH who seems to be ready to move on. I think meeting JM from his past, is going to help him move forward.
In a way, it seems that JM is a key for both of them to move on with their lives.
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I really loved this episode.
1) SH is so into JH, I'm not sure if he really understands it at this point. I thought it was cute that he was worried about her getting home. After calling several times with no response, he decided to go look for her. He has it bad already.
2) I truly hope their is no emotions left between SH and JM. I like the way JM and JH interact with each other. They seem like they could be good friends.
3) Just like I wanted JH to kick SH out of his comfort zone, I really like SG kicking SJ our of her comfort/safe zone. I thought he nailed it on the head when he said she kept running away. It's said that she doesn't think she's good enough to marry because of her mom and her being born out of wedlock. In her mind, she could never aspire to marriage. I really love that he's dashing all her preconceived ideas that no man of worth would marry her.
4) WS and HR, what can I say. I went from being painfully sorry for her and angry at him then angry at her and sorry for him. I still can't help but feel upset at WS for stringing her on for 7 years after telling her to wait 5 years. Then he had the nerve to ask her to wait another 5 years. I hope they give me a little back story on the guy that picked her up. I hope it's not the man she doesn't really know who she exchanged a few text messages with. I have a feeling, these two may end up back together.
Good episode....but then, I've loved every episode.
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I've noticed that JH is hesitant to grab or touch SH unless he initiates the contact first. She wasn't always like this, but became shy after some of his 'rebukes'. I would like to see in the future her touching him without hesitation. I would also like her to kick some of his logic aside; example when they were on the bus and she wanted to sit with him. I'm sure the other person would have exchanged seats so they could sit together. I think she just needs to keep kicking him out of his comfort zone of the pas t12 years....
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3 hours ago, 8mel said:
@8mel, as much as I would have loved for it to be a scene from the future, I think this is a behind the scene clip, because this is when JH went to help with the ancestry celebration and the kids are SH's nephew and niece.
I will say that even in the behind the scene clip they look like a real couple.
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1 hour ago, Ros Rivera said:
Hi everyone, I only started to lurk in here sometime last week but I feel like I have to share this theory with you. I apologize in case this was already posted, I could have missed out bec of the volume of comments, (if that's the case, you may ignore this.)
In the ep where SH confronted his dad how he sent him away 12 years ago, maybe he was not only pertaining to himself literally. I also think SH and JM were living in SH aboji's house. SH aboji might have gotten really angry and kicked the BOTH of them out. That could explain why in the cafe, JM said that she already took her things out and that SH only needs to take his things out as well.-- bec they were both sent away from that house. And that's why SH was telling JM that he already talked to his dad and explained, etc. SH and JM living in together in a diff house other than his father's wouldn't be fitting cos I remember CEO Ma asked SH if JH reminded him of the ex after SH told him how an empty room to him could mean a lot to another which in this case is JH. That saying, maybe JM was also homeless at some point.
@Ros Rivera, I too thought they were either living with the father or in his current house now. The only reason I don't think they got married was because SH still has the marriage form--that would have been turned in if they had married. Maybe they were living together and the father rejected her as a potential daughter in law.
Personally, I hope JH goes ahead and gets back into writing. Her father in law likes a daughter in law that has a degree and is well educated, but doesn't want her to have a job that outshines his son. I really don't want her to lose sight of writing which is a passion of hers.
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8 hours ago, ObsessiveCompulsive said:
I was really happy when WS took the very difficult heart wrenching step of breaking up with HS. They need this, they've been together way too long and their relationship has not progressed. HS would never have left him and I think thats why WS had to be the one to do it. Sometimes we have to let things go and someone free and if they come back then its meant to be.
To be honest, this is the first episode when this couple really got to me emotionally; actually HR got to me and I felt her pain. I would have liked it better if she had broken up with him. He has been stringing her alone for 7 years and now is asking her to wait another 5 years. SH gave him some good feedback, WS was using a long of "I" when talking about his relationship with HR. However, she did the same thing. The two of these people were a couple, but they were thinking of their relationship in silos and not as a partnership.
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I'm a fan of JH's mother every since that beautiful letter she wrote to SH. She's so proud of JH and it shows. When JH and SH were leaving her parents' house, one of her father's friend was trying to press another drink on SH. JH grabbed the bowl/cup and drank it instead. Everyone was looked shocked/surprised, JH's mother just looked on with a smile as JH drank the rice wine. She looked so proud of her daughter.
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50 minutes ago, lmyra said:
Why should women always wear bras ?
Why is it worse to see the nipples of a woman than the nipples of a man through a white skirt?
Comparing being braless for a woman with wearing transparent pants for men is not well balanced. If men can wear transparent pants, women should have the same rights.
Why is it so commonly accepted shirtless men in streets when a woman is insulted because she is braless although she wears a shirt ?
It is not a statement, it is a personal preference and yes that's freedom: she does not like wearing a bra, she wants to wear a white shirt...why not ? The problem is how it is seen by others: she can't be fully herself and wear what she wants because she is judged so she has to think about putting back a bras when interacting with others people.
One of the things I think that is being missed in this drama is the writer is showing several sides of the braless movement:
1) It's your freedom as a woman to go braless if you want
2) If you think men and women are not going to talk about you, or judge you, then think again because people will have a "perception" and that will be their reality even if it's not based on facts.
3) People will form perceptions about you depending on the setting you choose to go braless and with whom.
I actually think that SJ is a mixed bag in this drama. She wants to be CEO or a boss, that's her dream, however, up to this point she's not carried herself as a "CEO". I'm not talking about going braless, I'm talking about letting others feel they can touch her anyway they want or say whatever they want to her. I love the fact that she finally said something to her male peers. Confronting issues head on is "CEO" material, not smiling sweetly and going along with whatever.
Breasts on a women is sexual. They are definitely shaped differently from a man and they can do something that a man's breasts can never do--they can produce nourishing food for a baby. That in itself is amazing. Even since biblical times, King David spoke about the beautiful breasts of a Shulamite Maiden. I'm glad as a woman that my breasts are viewed differently from a man--if not we would all be unisex; what's the fun in that?
Some women are braless for freedom, some like the feeling of sexuality.
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I really liked this episode, it really discussed a lot of things that we have discussed in detail on this thread.
1) I like the way that JH is giving SH a little payback. He's really going out of his way to gain her forgiveness--he's a little chatty Cathy.
2) I like the way the writer showed how people can talk about others where they have no room to talk. SH was amused about the dating contract between Mr. Ma and SJ. Both he and JH shared a warm smile about it, then she reminded him that they were no different...smile slid right off his face...
3) I like the fact that SJ stood up to Mr. Park and the other guys who had made a bet about her breast size. Today, for the first time, they saw a different side of her. I also was extremely angry when Mr. Part purposely threw food on her so that she would have to take off her coat because he knew she wasn't wearing a bra. I was hoping she would tell him off then but she didn't.
4) I thought the conversation between SH and Mr. Ma was interesting after SH let it slip about no one should want to get married. Then Mr. Ma reminded him that he was married, then SH talked about when you see a pretty woman you can't help but look. In a way, I got the impression that the writer was saying that men/women will look at what they think is attractive. I can't remember if SJ told the guys that they shouldn't look, but that's almost unrealistic. Not only will guys look, but so would women.
5) Mr. Ma was surprised that SJ would go around work braless. However, he also showed that it's not unusual for people to have a certain "perception" of people that go around the office braless and noticeably braless--he had a perception; that's why he's surprised.
6) I was happy that SG wasn't going to let SJ relieve her frustration from work by having sex with him. He wanted them to be able to talk about what was bothering her.
7) It appears that the woman SH married, or wanted to marry, was someone that he cared for or maybe even loved. I guess in some ways, JH may remind him of her. I can't wait to find out more.
8) When WS came home and got into bed with HR asking her if she wanted to go on a date, why did it feel like they are breaking up.
9) I truly hope that SH rubs off on JH's father. He is very much the "women stay in their place" and "men stay in theirs". I like that SH was determined to help make kimchi.
10) Loved the the expression on SH's face when he saw JH. He was so happy.
11) I love the way SG and SJ's romance is coming along. I think he's helping her to look at a relationship more than just hooking up. They also have a honest, everything thing on the table relationship. I love how they communicate -- they talk.
12) Can't say enough about how SH finally acknowledges that he likes JH and the kiss is real initiated by JH. Well, I said that if the kiss was real that it would be JH and I guess I called that part right. Then again, I also said that if the kiss was a fantasy that it would be JH's fantasy.
Love, love, love this episode.
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7 hours ago, ahhhjummahhhjo said:
egads I love them so much.
@ahhhjummahhhjo I hope we see some of that playfulness in this drama. They are just too cute in the behind the scene clips. I want to see some of that in front of the camera....
@roseeflower, thanks of SH and JH watching soccer. In these clips it reminds me again what a great actress she is, so natural. A lot of people didn't like her after her role in Playful Kiss, they couldn't separate the character from the actress--I love her portrayal of her character OHa Ni because she showed a verify of expressions and intensity--although the character was too self-sacrificing towards the mean guy. In the drama CWGM, DD and in BM, I thought she showed another side of her acting. In this drama, there is a lot of subtle emotions that are reflected in her face, but there are also a lot of obvious expressions--- never over the top as we see in most k-dramas. She's on a small list of actors that I really like because of their acting skills. I don't feel like I'm seeing the same character in every drama.
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On 11/8/2017 at 10:30 AM, golfishcookp9 said:
Looking forward the beautiful scenery & handsome KRW in this upcoming drama. Pity, the main actress still remain in her stiff acting
@golfishcookp9, I couldn't agree with you more about the actress. I will say she was a tad bit better in her last drama, but ...... Well I think KRW will have his work cut out for him. We'll see if he's able to bring some life into her. Personally, I would love to see him and PSH in another drama together or even a movie.
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One thing I will say about this writer, she's not only showing how women use sex against women, the writer is also showing how women use sex against men. The women are or have been sexually abused. However, the women also uses sex to control the will of men; making them do what they want. At times women seem powerless, then at times they seem powerful.
Interesting how the writer is portraying the sides of women.
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16 hours ago, ahhhjummahhhjo said:
Ho Rang -- I feel for her. I would like to know what happened in her life that made her want to be a black coat. Sure, we know she's always wanted to marry a self-made chaebol, still. Dreams at their age (18/19) can be lofty, positive, and full of possibility.
There is something to be said about spending seven years of your life with someone. I don't remember how long they've been living together but what I know is this, Ho Rang believes in Won Seok. Enough to hotly defend his app during her conversation with him after his visit to the GLAM+ offices. On the one hand, people may think that she's been just waiting patiently, grooming him and supporting him so that she would benefit in the end... but seven years? And being the sole breadwinner almost half of the time they'd been together? I'm surprised she hasn't given up on him by Year 3 or 4. If she were truly after the ring, wouldn't it make sense that she'd have left him while she was still in her prime, childbearing years (saying this from a biological clock standpoint as "Fertility starts to decline at age 30 and chances of miscarriages rise." Source: http://www.parenting.com/article/will-you-still-be-fertile-in-5-years21336226 )
She's not young anymore and people younger than her and old classmates are married off. What we're witnessing at this moment in time of the show is the pent-up frustration from both parties. It is not a simple as painting Ho Rang as a nagging, bridezilla to be. When she saw the ring on her finger, she can hardly believe someone as smart as Won Seok would want to marry her. She has so much self-doubt that she compensates with pinning her confidence on the fact that she's in a relationship and now, engaged. She herself said that the veracity of her womanhood and identity is tied to her being desired enough to spend a lifetime with. My heart is breaking as I type this. Where is our red coat Ho Rang, who can pull off such vivid colors with such fearlessness and pride?
@ahhhjummahhhjo, I truly enjoyed reading your post. You made me sympathize for HR in a way I've never had before. I too would like to know what made her want to become a "black coat", to be "ordinary".
I guess what bothers me more about HR is her view of marriage is all one dimensional and what defines her value as a woman. I loved the flashback of the girls being young because it really told us a little about their story. Below are some of my ramblings of how HR comes across to me. She just seems like out of the 3 women, she's the one that is still 'childlike'.
1) She wanted to sit next to JH because JH is smart and she hopes by doing so it will help her get into a university in Seoul. However, instead of pulling out a notebook with pen and paper to reach this goal, she pulls out a makeup bag.
2) After the three girls fight due to HR ignoring JH's advice not to gossip about SJ. HR is upset over the fact that the teachers kept hitting her (I was upset too):
HR: "Are stupid girls not human? You're not better than me. You look like dumplings. You guys are ugly."
SJ: After commenting on HR no longer speaking with a Seoul dialect, "If it bothers you so much, then you should study harder."
HR: "It's not something I can help. If I could help it, I'll already be a top student."
The next day, SJ brings her a book to study; telling her to work the problems circled 2 or 3 times because they would be on the test. Obviously HR listened and applied herself because she made a 70 on the test.
My thoughts: For me, this really showed how little HR thought of her own abilities. She gave up on herself without really putting forth any true effort and hard work. She thought just sitting next to JH was going to help her get into a university. She took her frustrations out on SJ and JH and resorted to pettiness by calling them ugly. For some reason, those comments made me think her view of people as superficial and what can you do for me.
HR's Goal when approaching JH: Get into a Seoul University.
3) Later when the girls are friends, they are at the beach sharing their drams. HR's drama:
"I want to marry a successful man who worked hard for it and become a housewife."
SJ and JH asked her if she wanted to marry a rich man. She explained that she didn't want a rich man because they would have to live with the in-laws. She wanted the money to be "all ours." They asks her what about a professional man like a lawyer or doctor.
HR said: "These days engineers are the best. A businessman who graduated from engineering, that's the type of man I dream of.."
Then JH told the group her dream was "Love." Both SJ and HR rebuff this idea. SJ tells JH that some guy from the neighborhood likes her, date him.
HR: "No way he's ugly. Date...."
My thoughts: For HR, the person who wants to marry and be a housewife, it's not about wanting love, it's about wanting a successful engineer who will make money. She scoffs at JH's dream of love as if it's ridiculous. She also scoffs at SJ's suggestion that JH dates a guy that likes her because he's ugly.
HR just always comes across to me as if she's using WS as a means to an end. She met him thanks to SJ and JH who went to the same college together. HR went to a different college. According to WS, she was at his college more than she was at her own college. For HR, I'm sure he was this smart underclassman (he's 2 years younger than her) who also was an engineering student with a lot of potential and hard working. I'm not sure he even had a chance against HR. He always seems like he's trying to please her and make her happy.
Now that she has her ring and on the cusp of marriage, she now feels valued as a woman. She doesn't care if she loses her job. She feels empowered to stand up to her boss with his discriminating remarks. However, she seems to have lost touch with reality:
1) they are living in a 1 room flat
2) WS can't afford to take care of the both of them
3) He will never become the rich business owner when all his energy is being spent working for someone else
4) She's wondering why his formal co-workers have de-freined her on 'Facebook'; not understanding how they are being impacted
HR has lost sight of everything in pursuit of being a housewife. Their marriage is doomed for failure from the start because they have two things going against them that are the number 1 causes for divorce:
1) Finances
2) Lack of communication
I don't know what to make of all my ramblings, I just know it's these things that are shaping my opinion of HR. By no means is WS blameless, he's immature in a lot of ways too. He's crushed when SH and the group questions him about his app. However, I personally think he failed to realize that they all used it--can't be that bad. As a woman, I would like to see HR figure our how to value herself as a woman; and not on others. I would like for her to go back to her roots of bold colors and forget about being ordinary. I think if she became that person, WS wouldn't be asking "what is marriage". He would want to make sure she's "his woman" and everybody knows it.
I do have sympathy for HR because she put all her energy into WS. Now she's finding out that they're not on the same page--they really never were.
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7 hours ago, diesy said:
WS-HG couple: I start to think that everything will go bad
SG-SJ: a bit disappointed by her contract, but it's funny to see the parallelism with the marriage contract by SH
Sadly, I'm with @aisling on WS-HR, I kinda would like to see a paring between WS and BM. It started when she called him "shorty" when taking the wedding pictures. Also, I don't know what "Slack" is that BM asked WS if he was using, even though he's been dating for 7 years. I don't know if it's the dating app or some type of gaming site. It was HR's nonchalant attitude after their break up in ep 1 and again when he bought the sofa that I thought it's time for them to truly take a break. Not only did she use manipulation to get him to propose to her, but I also thought that she was emotionally draining for him. He's not perfect by no means and has flaws, but I always see him during her laundry, folding her clothes, and pampering her. They just don't seem to be in sync to me. However, I can see the writer keeping them together to make a "happy" ending because of the "all friends" circle, but I really would like to see HR with the love of bold things make an appearance.
@diesy, you mentioned a parallelism that I didn't even think about and I've been noticing a few. The contracts are definitely a parallelism: SH-JH have a marriage contract with no sex. SG and SJ have a dating contract with sex 2 times when they meet.
I also see a parallelism in how HR is the more 'dominate' one in her relationship with WS and SJ is the more 'dominate' one in her relationship with SG. I'm just hoping that the writer give them a balance in their relationships.
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12 hours ago, shedp said:
Couldn't resist anymore to talk about HR and WS. In past episodes I was trying to understand and side with her, but in yesterday's episode ughh she really annoyed me and I give up. I know its her all time dream, but considering their circumstances, she should know more than that. She knows how incapable WS is, and in the past 3 years that they've been living together, she's the one who has been providing for everything. WS just got hired and she's now trying to resign her work. Ok, maybe this issue I can let it pass, because she paid for all the living expenses back then when WS was earning nothing, and now that he'll be the one earning then maybe she can have the right to resign. We can call that quits. But the worst part is she's asking for such a grand wedding that she knows too well that they couldn't even afford, that'll take them so many years before they even get to achieve.
WS has never been ready to go through married life, I hate that HR used sex to threaten WS and manipulate him so she could have the wedding she has always been dreaming of. And I hate it more that WS was more forced to propose to her when HR used sex than how HR cried outside the restaurant. He was so firm telling HR that love and marriage aren't the same even after she cried and shamed herself at so many people but when his sex life was at risk, he didn't think twice to propose to her. Ughhh.
@shedp, I loved your post and agree with you 100%. First, I really think, again, that the writer uses comparison/contrasts and parallels.
1) I wanted to mention something about HR using sex to manipulate WS into proposing to her. HR used sex to get a proposal and SJ used sex to get SG to agree to her dating contract.
2) All three women are sexually harassed on their jobs: JH - physically-assault, SJ - verbally assault, and HR - verbally--not so much about sex, but about being a woman.
In regards to HR, as I rewatched the scene again of her, JH and SJ as young teenagers, I realized that she's always thought of herself as not being smart enough. She sat next to JH in hopes of bringing up her grades. I love teachers and believe that their actions and words can shape the way students view themselves; inspire them or defeat them. I was really disappointed in how the teachers treated HR compared to SJ and JH. I can't help but wonder if HR only aspires to be a housewife/stay at home mom because she doesn't feel as if she's good for anything else. She feels that marriage will "prove that she's valued as a woman." There is nothing wrong with being a stay at home mom, it just seems that she has so much "life"/"energy", bubbly personality that it seems she's missing her calling.
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1 hour ago, firt said:
I have mixed feelings abt ep 10, i feel like SH’s state is back to ep 5, drawing the line, oblivious (or maybe pretend to not knowing JH’s feelings). It just doesnt make sense to me, after the build up momentum from running up hills, expensive motorbike kicking, hand holding for hours, honest conversation about not drawing lines, etc.
i hope we can get SH’s pov in the next ep.
@firt, I do think there was a reset for SH and it started with his mother's visit talking about the memorial which he said he would not attend. After his mother used the "mother in law" position to call up JH to help, SH felt a need to come and 'protect' JH and put some division between them. I think his actions had more to do with his current relationship with his parents from 12 years ago than with JH.I can't wait to find out more about 12 years ago and what happened to the girl. So the parents have caused a "reboot, format, delete" in SH's conscious emotions. However, I do think he's getting ready to have his emotions rewritten by the virus known as Ji Ho who isn't backing down.
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6 hours ago, libra83 said:
Ah, I watched the preview at hundreds times and more confident with the kiss won’t be a dream.
Their clothes at kiss scene, blue jacket of SeHee and pink of JiHo are the same with their clothes when they are facing each other, looked shy and then Se He waved her back when JH stood half-half in front of her room.
So the Kiss will be real and they go back to Seoul and becomes real coupleeeeeee!!!!
I so hope you're right about the kiss not being a dream; however, I can't help but think it's one of their fantasy....probably SH...
What I love about JH is she doesn't let things "fester". I personally was surprised to hear that her dream was to find fated love. I also don't blame her for her loving stares at SH and reading more into his actions, thinking he must like her too. I can truly see why she feels this way--SH is shooting off so many mixed messages.
She clearly told SH at the end of episode 6, in no uncertain terms not to use "us", "we", "ours" because it causes her to mistakenly think they belong together. Yet, he's the first one to start it up again, giving her that sense of they belong together. What is a girl supposed to think after a man ran for miles to find her, kicks over an expensive bike, then grabs her by the hand with "let's go to our home" and wouldn't let go--not even aware that his own body had latched on to her and wouldn't let go of her hand. Then he tells her his concerns about how the marriage will impact her after 2 years only adds to her feelings. Her seeing stars on a starless night is understandable after SH's protective display.
I love the way JH is always causing SH to rewrite his program after he "reboots, reformats and delete" in an effort to keep the tenant/landlord formalities--he's the one that is always going back on his words. She's doing it again by telling him that he needs to pay with labor, not with money, by helping her family make kimchi. She's not like most drama female leads who just takes what is being dished out. JH's voice is soft, but she's strong and firm.....her mom would be proud. I think SH likes to tell himself that his actions are only motivated by tenant/landlord responsibilities, but I actually think he's heads over heals for her...subconsciously. When he's emotionally concerned about her, his guard drops and so does the tenant/landlord formalities.
So I hope the kiss scene is real, but if it's not it will be SH's fantasy.........I hope.
In regards to HR, she's in a fantasy world. The two of them are living in a 1 room, I hate to use the word apartment, because that's all they can afford and she's blindly thinking he can afford to marry and be a stay at home wife? She doesn't even realize that he's given up on his dream. She's so focused on her dreams and wants, that she hasn't see it from his prospective. She's heading down a path of misery in their current state because she wants to be "ordinary". I have a feeling she will encourage him to pursue his goal and I think they will postpone marriage.
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In episode 9, another thing I really liked is how JH had her own everything is beautiful moment like Mr. Ma. He was dancing in the street. However, we have JH talking about how beautiful the stars were on a starless night with a little skip in her steps.....she even saw the big dipper even though a star wasn't in sight....
She's seeing stars because she's discovered feelings for SH. His look was priceless too as he was trying to see the invisible stars.
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10 hours ago, roseeflower said:
Everyone is worried about the ex lover what about kitty always rolling in SH bed
I remember someone pointed that kitty is a tough competition for Jiho well she is indeed hard to beat.
In this scene i was laughing so much !!
EXPECTATION VS REALITY LOL
@roseeflower, thank you for posting those pictures from that scene. It wasn't until I saw your post that I realized the writer was showing another contrast. I would even call it fantasy vs reality. It made me wonder how much of HR's dreams of being a wife is based on the fantasies/expectations of these married ladies and not the reality of marriage; it's rewarding, but also requires work--financially and emotionally.
Love the subtle contrasts the writer uses.
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5 hours ago, mywebfoot said:
Some rambling thoughts about Ho Rang and Won Seok
As some have commented, poor Won Seok is being manipulated into a proposal, one that is still highly uncertain that he wants to do. Definitely Ho Rang is wrong to manipulate Won Seok, but Won Seok also needs to make a decision about what he wants. Certainly both have their reasons for being the way they are, but it certainly doesn't excuse the harm they are going to do to each other.
Won Seok, like many start up people I know, really loves his creation. Unfortunately, part of the nature of a startup business is that it SHOULD fail if it isn't sustainable. Won Seok unfortunately has that dilemma in front of him - if his app is unsustainable, should he kill it and move on to something more lucrative? Or should he keep pounding at it, in the hopes it will 'take off' one day. Won Seok is cute and book smart, but he is also terribly indecisive. Sang Gu is right, Won Seok cannot be a good businessman. This trait of his plays out in his relationship with Ho Rang.
Ho Rang is unfortunately convenient for him. Until she started making her wish for marriage clear, she was everything he needed and wanted. Then came the dilemma - the relationship became unsustainable and now it comes time for a decision - to break up or get married.
We all know that part of being an adult is making hard decisions. Won Seok has finally made them. He's quit the startup and decided to get married. Now the second part of being an adult kicks in - living with the decisions you've made, even when things get difficult. Let's see if he can do it. If he can't, honestly, he should do more growing up before getting married, not bring better specs to the marriage.
Ho Rang. Sigh. She just makes me sigh. I'm all for being accepting of other people's personal life goals, regardless of how weird they seem to me. I mean, if Ho Rang can clearly see that her life goal is about being acceptable by some amorphous societal standard, and that is what will make her happy, then, ok, go for it girl.
BUT SERIOUSLY, have some pride too. If there's anything about Ho Rang that truly annoys me, it's this - she has absolutely zero pride in her own abilities. Zip. Her view of herself is 100%, no 110% based on how other people view her. Ayyyyyy, how did you get that way Ho Rang? What happened between high school and now to make you that way? When did you give up on yourself?
The saddest part is she thinks that will make her a good wife, being self-sacrificial and other-centred. In reality, when the lack of self-image is taken to such extremes, it would just turn her into an insecure, clingy person. The sum effect will be that she will be even more manipulative, even more demanding of Won Seok because her self-worth is embodied in him.
@mywebfoot, I love your post. The thing I found interesting about HR was her response when asked why she wants to marry. She talked about wanting to be a daughter in law and talk about in-laws, raising kids with her friends. She wanted to be ordinary and not standout as a single woman. For her, "Marriage proves that I'm alright and I have value as a woman."
Her outlook on marriage is sad to me. Her friends are expressing their frustrations and gripes about marriage, family and in-laws but also in a way that says "I'm a member of the club". I can almost empathize to what she's saying and wanting to feel like she "belongs", but my fear for her is she's letting the thought of marriage define who she is as a woman.
When she spoke of her mother and her friends not inviting the woman who works outs and is single, I'm not sure HR also got the reason for them not inviting this woman is because she's single, attractive, in-shape and has no strings attached. Not inviting this woman may also have to do with confronting their own secret envies and desires--freedom to do as they please without having to answer to anyone.
The saying, the grass is always greener on the other side until you're on the other side. I would have loved it better if HR had responded that she wanted to get married because she wants to be with Won Seok and raise a family with him. I almost got the impression from her response to JH that it didn't really matter who she married, as long as she married.
I have a feeling that HR may step back from the marriage proposal or postpone marriage. She doesn't want to work, but WS can't afford to take care of her on his salary alone. I would love for her to embrace who she is and her inner desire to stand out. Her red fingernail polish was that hidden scream of "I'm still in here".
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1 hour ago, bebebisous33 said:
Sorry for quoting myself but I wanted to prove that I was right about BN that he had no bad intention. I didn't buy the whole stalker thing... I am glad that he is in fact supporting our couple. He really wanted SH to act like a husband.
@bebebisous33, I knew he wasn't a stalker too. I also mentioned that he was the cafe's owner son. Then the writer took us on these little twists and turn and made me doubt myself. However, it was his love for his bike that made me think he couldn't be a stalker. It appears that BN learned everything about them from the bus and wedding. I'm not sure who the quick eyes that first spotted BN, but that is where it started--on the bus.
I will say in this episode that JH and SH are too cute. SH even cracking a joke--of course, we didn't get it, but it's the thought that counts....
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1 hour ago, lavender2love said:
YUP ! YUP ! I HOPE WRITER WRITE AN INTERESTING BACK STORY FOR HER....
IN MY FANTASY WILDEST IMAGINATION MY JAWS WOULD DROP IF :
If she is a pole dancer
A
strippersinger with a big voice.A fashion model
She is meeting a rich boyfriend
Hahahahahha..... !!
@lavender2loveand @yerinfish, I can't wait either to see what the writer has in store for us in regards to BM's after hours 'activities....
. I didn't recognize her at SH and JH's wedding. She looked like a different woman all made up and her hair in a different style. It was her matter of fact speech and pink dress that clued me in...... When she puts on the lipstick after being dropped off by SJ and HR, it made me wonder where she was headed; clubbing, singles party mixer, hummm.... I can see her letting loose in her after hours and having fun.
@Lmangla, Thank you. She was an incredible woman. I have often questioned myself and wondered if I could have been that brave, especially during that time. Also, thanks for sharing your story in the work place.
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9 hours ago, yerinfish said:
Wow! great observation @bebebisous33 ! I think it's another hard truth Writer-nim wants us to see. Without even asking how SJ feels or if she needs help they resort to shaming
it's so sad. And real.
I agree with you
We might not know what exactly is the reason for SJ's words.. must be a mix of emotions? Must be because SG is the only person she knows is all for her well being that she can vent to him like this? But i can see how SJ is screaming inside. So angry that she had to choose to shut her mouth.. for reasons we're not sure still, she might be protecting her job or something. And hurt the person she likes, again for reasons we're not sure of yet, like you said, must be protecting SG's reputation? I just know that whatever it is we're rooting for our girl.
@yerinfish and @bebebisous33, I loved both of your posts. I know some on this thread think that I'm against SJ, but I'm not. I want her and any woman trying to break into a male dominated world to be successful. I've said for many episodes she seems sad to me and the only real smile I saw was the night Mr. Ma stood up for her. Not only do I want to understand better why she told Mr. Ma what she did in rejection of his invitation to dinner because she clearly likes him, but I would love to know how she sees her current situation.
The writer seems to be writing this drama in contrasts and from different angles and situations. It's a drama focused on women and
1) BM with her extremely short skit that barely covers her butt, doesn't receive any harassment from the guys she works with--she's the only woman there. We have SJ who goes braless at times at work who also works in a company with lots of other women. She is harassed by her male counterparts. The writer, IMO, is showing how leadership also plays a role in setting the tone of the workplace environment.
2) In a conversation with Mr. Ma when he asked her why doesn't she speak out and tell her senior coworkers that she won't tolerate their behavior. She told him that those types of dinners was a part of work. She also said, "Why should I do that? Can you imagine the life of a female worker in such a large company? If things get noisy, I'll end up being gossiped about?" The writer shows a contrast in a later episode of her in the bathroom stall when she overhears the women gossiping about her being something like a company escort. She doesn't want to complain because it may cause gossip, but by not speaking out she's causing gossip.
3) We also have the contrast between JH's harassment and SJ's harassment and how they chose to deal with it. One quit their job after speaking out and the other is, at the moment, remaining silent and remaining in her job.
4) Friends and marriage : HR wants marriage desperately, SJ never wants marriage, JH never gave much thought to marriage, but married.Spoiler@ahhhjummahhhjo, I read your post and enjoyed it. I also enjoyed reading the articles you posted--one I had already read before. I agree with you 100% that you could be covered from head to toe in a sweater or even a burlap bag, but if a person is intent on molesting you, they will regardless of how you're dressed. The experience of the college student reminds me of something that happen in my hometown in he USA, way before I was born; but it later had an impact on me. It was something that happened in the very early 50s. A 13 year old, very shy black girl was abducted after leaving her friend's house around 4:00 pm, a mile from her home. She was raped, severely beaten and tossed into the bottom of a ravine, left for dead. Her family searched for hours trying to find her. After regaining consciousness around midnight, she crawled out of the ravine a bloody, muddy, battered mess and terrified. A police officer found her and with my parents took her to the hospital. She was dressed as any typical teen girl during that time. By the age of 14, this young shy girl had to testify in a full courtroom before an all white jury and her attacker. It was the hardest thing she every had to do in her life and she was still traumatized. But testify she did and against the odds, the state won the case. Back then there was no DNA, detailed blood work or forensics as we know it today. It was just the word of a young black girl accusing a white traveling salesman of raping her during a very turbulent time in US history.
That young girl was my great aunt. Our family never talked about what happened to her. My sisters and I didn't learn about it until years later. It then made sense why our aunt always told the young females in the family to "give yourself a fighting chance if ever attacked." After learning what happened to my aunt, I took up Taekwondo to learn self-defense; even with that, I do not have any false illusions that I could fight off a 200 or 300 pound man or someone with a weapon. I just want to give myself a fighting chance.
When I talk to high school students during career day, I always talk about dressing appropriately for job interviews--to give themselves a 'fighting chance'. They match appropriate clothing to wear to interviews with Wall Street, a bank, Google, a call/contact center, big box store (Walmart, Home Depot, etc.). As I said in my posts, there is nothing wrong with SJ going braless; however, there is a time and place for everything; her job with a suit and tie investment firm is not the place. She should dress for the job she wants, not the one she has.
SJ said something to Mr. Ma that left me wondering about what she really believes. She told him, "Since this deal is important to you, don't respond to anything unprofessionally or personally." Mr. Ma, "I'm not a person who ruins business by being unprofessional." Does she really believe that saying nothing is being "professional"? That, as she told Mr. Ma "these dinners are just a part of my job too." Does she not really see this for what it is, "sexual harassment"? I think SJ's character may be as identified in the article under spoiler.
I'm waiting for SJ to stand up, create noise, be the cause of gossip; not as a perceived escort, but as a victim of sexual harassment. This will take courage on her part.
In the spoiler is a very good article that I had read a long time ago and find it to be very relevant in regards to this drama.
SpoilerSexual harassment haunts Korea
By Korea Herald- Published : Jun 9, 2013 - 20:44
- Updated : Jun 9, 2013 - 20:44
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When Ahn Mi-soo, 29, overheard her male colleagues talk about the sexual abuse scandal involving ex-presidential spokesman Yoon Chang-jung, she couldn’t help but cringe.
“They were saying casually that things were kind of blown out of proportion for something that could have been let by,” Ahn said.
While accompanying President Park Geun-hye on her U.S. visit last month, he allegedly sexually assaulted a Korean-American who was hired to help the Seoul delegation in Washington. U.S. police are investigating the case.
“I don’t personally experience sexual harassment at work, but my colleagues’ exchanges gave me a bitter feeling that things still haven’t changed in how such things are perceived,” Ahn said.
The scandal sent shockwaves throughout the country and forced the president to apologize and replace her top public relations official who is Yoon’s supervisor.
On one hand, the incident allowed a peek into how society perceives sexual harassment, and more fundamentally how gender is construed at workplaces.
“Yoon’s case epitomized the classic case of sexual harassment involving those in power,” said Park Seon-young, chief of the Center for Human Rights Policy at the Korean Women’s Development Institute.
“The alleged offender denied any wrongdoing and instead claimed it was only a gesture of encouragement. Gossip that the alleged victim may have had other motives or rumors surrounding the identity of the accuser has inflicted secondary damage to the victim.”Women’s rights activists hold a press conference at Gwanghwamun, downtown Seoul, urging for a thorough investigation into former presidential spokesman Yoon Chang-jung’s sexual assault case and for measures to eradicate sex crimes on May 16. (Yonhap News)
The debacle took a more bizarre turn when the government lowered the number of female interns hired for the prime minister’s trip to Thailand later in the month.
According to the sexual harassment white paper by the National Human Rights Commission last year, 50.3 percent of harassment cases occur in the workplace. Nearly 20 percent takes place at dinner outings with coworkers and 4.2 percent at education or training facilities. The report also indicated that power plays a significant role in sexual harassment, with 61.1 percent of cases involving a boss and an employee.
A survey conducted last year by an employment website (www.career.co.kr) showed that 4 out of 10 workers have experienced sexual harassment. Of the 405 that were surveyed, 72.6 of those that were harassed were women while 27.4 percent were men. Nearly 79 percent of the offenders were “bosses” while 13.4 percent were business owners, 6.7 percent coworkers and 1.2 percent subordinates. The form of harassment ranged from excessive physical contact to sexual jokes and remarks critiquing looks.
Korea began to legally acknowledge sexual harassment in 1995, through the enactment of the framework act on women’s development on Dec. 30. It was triggered by the first-ever sexual harassment lawsuit in October 1993, when a teaching assistant at a university filed a complaint against a professor. The professor repeatedly made inappropriate physical contact and gave lewd glances, and when the assistant refused, she wasn’t rehired. The assistant, after a five-year legal battle, achieved a partial win.
The law now states that sexual harassment is when any member of a state organization makes the other party feel sexual humiliation or aversion with verbal or physical behavior of a sexual nature, or puts the other party at a disadvantage in employment for not complying with such action or demands.
Kim Hyun-ah, 38, said she believed sexual harassment stems from a deeper issue that is reflected in the way many men perceive their female coworkers.
“When I attend a business meeting, all the other members are usually male and mostly more senior than I. Every time I go in, they greet me in an exaggerated manner and make comments like, ‘the room is much more colorful with you,’ or ‘you are so dazzling, I don’t know where to look.’”
Although she knows they mean no harm and are even trying to compliment her, Kim always felt queasy, questioning whether they would have said the same if a man came in, and whether the same discrepancy would affect their treatment to her as a business partner later on.
Jeong Hee-jin, a lecturer of gender studies, said that harassment fundamentally stems from the male-centric way of thinking that remains embedded after centuries of male dominance. Korea’s male-centered social order emerged in the 17th century, when neo-Confucianism began taking root.
“The biggest structural cause of sexual harassment is the analysis of a female’s body from a male’s point of view,” she said, citing how male is usually identified as a person, whereas female is identified specifically by gender when describing someone in Korean.
Because women are perceived from such a point of view, they are evaluated not only on ability, but first on weight, face, body type, attire and attitude, whereas a man is assessed on money, ability and knowledge, according to Jeong.
“The reason why women are sensitive to gender is because of the double standard that gender has. While our society is extremely lenient in terms of sexuality for men, it is utterly merciless for women.”
An example is the so-called “jeobdae” culture, where male business partners would treat each other to drinking parlors with paid female escorts without qualms. Although the culture has significantly dwindled in recent years, a survey by the Korea Institute of Public Finance in April showed that room salons, or luxury drinking parlors, was still the No. 1 expense of a company’s entertainment budget, at 923.7 billion won in 2011. The report pointed out that excessive jeobdae culture will lead to abnormal expansion of the industry, which will raise various social problems in fair trade, social ethics and sex trade.
Observers argue that such culture could distort men’s perception of women, such as by dichotomizing the perception of women between “rest (home)” and “entertainment.”
“Even when a woman is at work, she is considered from a personal realm … when a man orders a woman coworker to fetch coffee or touches her buttocks, it is because he views her personally as a woman and less as a coworker,” Jeong said.
“The first level of judgment of whether or not it constitutes sexual harassment does not lie in the context. Rather, it depends on whether or not the alleged afflicter treated the accuser as gender neutral,” she added.
As such “uncomfortable cohabitation” of men and women at workplaces continue to surge, more men are forced into confusion as well.
Of 11 male office workers questioned by The Korea Herald last week, eight of them responded that they felt uncomfortable around female coworkers.
“It is very difficult to approach female coworkers because I might be misunderstood,” said Lee Joo-hyung, 30, who works in finance.
Another respondent in his mid-30s, who wished to remain anonymous, agreed.
“There are times when I feel uncomfortable. There can be unintentional physical contact when working together and I worry that (she) may think otherwise.”
Other responses included how they sometimes felt it unfair when female coworkers ironically expect special treatment by emphasizing the gender role.
What’s more, an increasing number of men are also said to suffer from sexual harassment as more women assume leadership posts.
Lee Jung-hyeon, 30, recalled the discreet dismissal of a female boss after one of the male subordinates filed a complaint against her with the company for incessant sexual harassment such as making lewd comments and inappropriate physical contact.
“Our workplace has more women than men, and naturally as women tend to go up the ladder, they seem somehow compelled to act on it,” Lee said, who did not want to disclose her company name.
Park Seon-young of the KWDI said that a single gender cannot be placed at blame for such phenomena.
“It is true that some women may choose to use their femininity to their advantage at workplaces, but on the flip side, they may have been forced to rely on her gender from the start, as they are not perceived as the same level of partner. The most important thing is to create a culture where people work together as gender equal,” she added.
Whether it is the historical gender biasness or the “aphrodisiac” nature of power (as experts often quote Henry Kissinger as saying), Jeong Hee-jin stressed that the most important perception of all is to recognize sexual harassment as a crime.
“Gender violence like sexual harassment is simply a crime. It is a violation of human rights against the other person and an illegal act that is subject to punishment, not an apology. Only is sexual harassment a crime that is often claimed as a show of friendliness, leading it to occur much more extensively and naturally.”
By Lee Joo-hee (jhl@heraldcorp.com)-
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. I didn't recognize her at SH and JH's wedding. She looked like a different woman all made up and her hair in a different style. It was her matter of fact speech and pink dress that clued me in......
it's so sad. And real.
[Drama 2017] Because This Is My First Life 이번 생은 처음이라
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I love how the writer has portrayed SH in this episode. There is no doubt that he has no feelings left for his ex. All his emotional attention is focused on JH. Sadly, JH doesn't know that SH is in love with her. My heart ached when he met her and wanted to hold her hand, but she purposely avoided it. Then again when he tried to adjust Kitty so that JH could see the new tag--"Us". In his own way, SH is a romantic.
I also like that the writer made JM to be a supportive woman for JH. It's nice to see a drama where women say what's on their minds--for the most part.
I have to also say that I like the other guy that likes HR. They seem more compatible to me. He just seems like the type of person she needs.
Truly love this drama.
Also, those of us that said BM was probably clubbing at night got it right.