[Mainland Chinese Drama 2017] The King’s Woman 泰时丽人明月心

[january1234]

@rosamundekingsley99_stv -I agree fully.35/6 were sweet and sad for me too. I remember  he did say to LBW after LBW and D Huayang induced the removal of Chengjiao something to the effect he was forced into that position and wished he was an ordinary person (and of course he was happy for a few moments in 36 pretending to be a peasant). I think it was after he exiled LBW and his Mother -and after he reconnected with Li that he started   thinking/plotting to get her to his palace. In effect he was all alone then. LBW had effectively been too successful as Regent in beginning to annexe the other states and spread the influence of Qin -and you got the impression that YZ couldn't just abdicate his position-too many people were already out for his blood. Also, I agree, deep down he wouldn't have as power is addictive-and he had wanted that as a child.This was why he was wishfully dreaming  he could  have both if he had  as consort the Ultimate Warrior Queen.But of course to survive as that, you'd have to have a Warrior Version of Li with a deeply hidden core of steel-one who was not quite so impetuous/rash and transparent as written.Sometimes I felt like shouting "Get a GRIP!!" at her because she seemed impossibly naive. I wouldn't have liked her to be  as devious as Min-but I'd perhaps have liked to have seen her calculating the risks a bit more. I mean-we're expecting him to learn from HER-but realistically, to survive in the palace for that long with a child that wasn't his, I'd have expected growth in the form  of street smarts., and the ability like Min to hide in plain sight. Unless of course we're to believe SHE couldn't change her essential nature either i.e. if he 's a tiger, she's a deer.

[rosamundekingsley99_stv]

21 minutes ago, january1234 said:

@rosamundekingsley99_stv -I agree fully.35/6 were sweet and sad for me too. I remember  he did say to LBW after LBW and D Huayang induced the removal of Chengjiao something to the effect he was forced into that position and wished he was an ordinary person (and of course he was happy for a few moments in 36 pretending to be a peasant). I think it was after he exiled LBW and his Mother -and after he reconnected with Li that he started   thinking/plotting to get her to his palace. In effect he was all alone then. LBW had effectively been too successful as Regent in beginning to annexe the other states and spread the influence of Qin -and you got the impression that YZ couldn't just abdicate his position-too many people were already out for his blood. Also, I agree, deep down he wouldn't have as power is addictive-and he had wanted that as a child.This was why he was wishfully dreaming  he could  have both if he had  as consort the Ultimate Warrior Queen.But of course to survive as that, you'd have to have a Warrior Version of Li with a deeply hidden core of steel-one who was not quite so impetuous/rash and transparent as written.Sometimes I felt like shouting "Get a GRIP!!" at her because she seemed impossibly naive. I wouldn't have liked her to be  as devious as Min-but I'd perhaps have liked to have seen her calculating the risks a bit more. I mean-we're expecting him to learn from HER-but realistically, to survive in the palace for that long with a child that wasn't his, I'd have expected growth in the form  of street smarts., and the ability like Min to hide in plain sight. Unless of course we're to believe SHE couldn't change her essential nature either i.e. if he 's a tiger, she's a deer.

@january1234 Agree except that at least YZ was self-aware enough to know that he was a tiger; I think that Li mistakenly believed herself to be a tiger when she was really a deer.  And YZ mistakenly believed that she was a tiger because of her martial arts prowess but fundamentally did not understand her soft heart; YZ respected her smarts.  

 

On the other hand, when they were in the cave in episode 37, maybe YZ did understand her soft, naive heart and still loved her for this anyway.  Because she rescued him constnatly, I think that she mistakenly thought that she was a tiger.

[dramalover1]

Li is inconsistent b/c writers made her be whatever they needed her to be to move the plot along.

 

YZ is very consistent within his internal makeup, except in Ep 41? (where he had a breakdown after Handan massacre). I thought that was VERY poorly done.

 

The prob is that maybe the authors wanted to make Li the non-changing character who brings about changes in others like YZ, JK and HS. But in order for someone to be a change agent, the person has to play the mentor role, and I felt that Li was too inconsistent in internal makeup to be the change agent/ mentor-like character b/c she doesn't exhibit wisdom and care such characters need to exhibit.

 

For example 

 

By falling in love w/ Li, YZ becomes softer. Except... Li only made YZ more jealous and suspicious b/c her crazy antics. 

 

JK -- Li urges JK master the sword technique, but other than that, he remains a loser. 

 

(BTW - historically, JK wasn't known for his sword technique. He was vanquished easily by YZ in a one-on-one combat in real history... I think in drama, they had to turn him into a martyr, and had him poisoned.)

 

HS -- Li urges HS to find his happiness although he comes back to her again. But HS is another character that doesnt' grow and enables Li to be foolish and does stupid things that makes YZ jealous and suspicious.

[dancingbee]

 

4 hours ago, dramalover1 said:

Li is inconsistent b/c writers made her be whatever they needed her to be to move the plot along.

 

JK -- Li urges JK master the sword technique, but other than that, he remains a loser. 

 

(BTW - historically, JK wasn't known for his sword technique. He was vanquished easily by YZ in a one-on-one combat in real history... I think in drama, they had to turn him into a martyr, and had him poisoned.)

 

@dramalover1  Hi.

Except for YZ and JK, were Li and HS real in history?

How close is this drama to the historical facts?

 

[dramalover1]

2 hours ago, dancingbee said:

 

@dramalover1  Hi.

Except for YZ and JK, were Li and HS real in history?

How close is this drama to the historical facts?

 

 

Both are fake. 

 

The assassination is real. Yan Dan is real. But everything else is fake. 

[dancingbee]

16 minutes ago, dramalover1 said:

 

Both are fake. 

 

The assassination is real. Yan Dan is real. But everything else is fake. 

 

Thank you @dramalover1
Would you happen to know....
In real life, what role did JK have in history? I could not find any info. And the assassination? What significance did it really have to the Qin Dynasty?
In the drama, JK did not make a lot of sense all the way to the end. But he is a real figure. I am curious what he actually did in that era...
And Yan Dan too...

 

[dramalover1]

1 hour ago, dancingbee said:

 

Thank you @dramalover1
Would you happen to know....
In real life, what role did JK have in history? I could not find any info. And the assassination? What significance did it really have to the Qin Dynasty?
In the drama, JK did not make a lot of sense all the way to the end. But he is a real figure. I am curious what he actually did in that era...
And Yan Dan too...

 

 

JK didn't do much as far as I know. He failed to kill YZ. Thats' that.

 

But it did enrage YZ so he invaded Yan (Dan's country) and destroyed it even tho Yan King killed Yan Dan to appease YZ. Yan Dan didn't do much either. He returned to his kingdom and decided to assassinate YZ. Most believe he did it b/c he hated YZ, not b/c he cared about his country, etc. 

[Kasmic]

@dramalover1 Can I ask how do you know Li is not real? Emperor Qin legacy and Im not referring to his achievements on the battlefield or dominance in China but more towards his love life. Did he ever have any moments of hesitation? Even in this drama, when you referred to the scene of his breakdown after killing so many people... surely it's possible for a human to feel remorseful afterall its many lives that he killed. Yet I understand historically lives were taken as if it was a norm and our modern way of thinking knows it's morally wrong since we tend to treasure a human life. Different mindsets in different eras. 

Also when he killed JK thru making kebab out of LZ (HAHAHA! @january1234 love your reference and pls dont mind me using it again) to me it didnt show YZ ruthlessness but more that LZ death of protecting him will not go in vain. His death allowed him to not only kill JK but served as a reminder of what their initial goal was /is. Again I see that a soldier's goal is to protect their King/ Nation even if it is at the risk of their own lives. Similar mindsets of our soldiers today. 

 

Anyway to continue, did Emperor Qin ever love someone that perhaps we were never told or made aware of? Surely a man of such power and intelligence (despite his tyrant ways of thinking) would spark some love? I mean he cant be all that cold blooded as history paints him to be? There got to be another reason why he never had a Queen other than not trusting others being too busy ruling the Nations?

 

Am I wrong? I dunno I like to think that Emperor Qin did have a love in his life, that he was capable of it? Maybe despite the HUGE flaws of this drama Im glad I could see a different side of Emperor Qin that it was possible that he did love someone as much as Li? or that it was indeed possible that Emperor Qin isnt as cold blooded.

I hope I make some sense lol! Im confusing myself too.

[dramalover1]

1 hour ago, Kasmic said:

@dramalover1 Can I ask how do you know Li is not real? Emperor Qin legacy and Im not referring to his achievements on the battlefield or dominance in China but more towards his love life. Did he ever have any moments of hesitation? Even in this drama, when you referred to the scene of his breakdown after killing so many people... surely it's possible for a human to feel remorseful afterall its many lives that he killed. Yet I understand historically lives were taken as if it was a norm and our modern way of thinking knows it's morally wrong since we tend to treasure a human life. Different mindsets in different eras. 

Also when he killed JK thru making kebab out of LZ (HAHAHA! @january1234 love your reference and pls dont mind me using it again) to me it didnt show YZ ruthlessness but more that LZ death of protecting him will not go in vain. His death allowed him to not only kill JK but served as a reminder of what their initial goal was /is. Again I see that a soldier's goal is to protect their King/ Nation even if it is at the risk of their own lives. Similar mindsets of our soldiers today. 

 

Anyway to continue, did Emperor Qin ever love someone that perhaps we were never told or made aware of? Surely a man of such power and intelligence (despite his tyrant ways of thinking) would spark some love? I mean he cant be all that cold blooded as history paints him to be? There got to be another reason why he never had a Queen other than not trusting others being too busy ruling the Nations?

 

Am I wrong? I dunno I like to think that Emperor Qin did have a love in his life, that he was capable of it? Maybe despite the HUGE flaws of this drama Im glad I could see a different side of Emperor Qin that it was possible that he did love someone as much as Li? or that it was indeed possible that Emperor Qin isnt as cold blooded.

I hope I make some sense lol! Im confusing myself too.

 

Becuase there's  absolutely  no record of such a woman anywhere. Not to mention there's no record of JK's lover either. Given YZ's personality and ruling philosophy, it's highly unlikely he let a woman who caused chaos and ignored palace rules live, much less loved her. He wasn't hunted like a dog while in Zhao. He also BURIED the people who offended him and their family members while they were alive in Handan, so it's unlikely he saw the dead or let the blood flow like that and had a breakdown. LBW killed himself so YZ didn't kill him and it's unlikely that LBW was his daddy anyway. He also did not need Li for conquests because he had some of the best generals in the world. He also had thousands of women so I doubt he loved any one in particular. 

[ella777]

Still stuck with this drama even though it s over with a tragic ending. Only focus on their good times together. Any drama recomendation ? I m watching 3 dramas currently. (While you were sleeping, man who sets the table, memory love). 

[dramalover1]

3 hours ago, ella777 said:

Still stuck with this drama even though it s over with a tragic ending. Only focus on their good times together. Any drama recomendation ? I m watching 3 dramas currently. (While you were sleeping, man who sets the table, memory love). 

 

If you haven't seen it yet, I rec ETERNAL LOVE - 10 MILES OF PEACH BLOSSOMS.

[tudorrose]

You can't have all at the same time. Just like YZ. He lost everyone even LZ. But just like in real life, we don't just achieve great things just like that, it takes A LOT.

 

The ending for me is just right. The only thing that i don't like is when HS died. I think his death doesn't have meaning. He could have help raise TM with Lan. But what i think doesn't matter because i know that everything that happened are needed for the story, it's just that at this moment i couldn't see the relevance of his death. Oh well.

 

 

[picadrama]

So so pretty! Ahhh I loved the scene where Gongsun Li rushed towards the king and the petals were falling! 

 

For more of my thoughts and opinions on the drama, please click here: https://picadrama.wordpress.com/2017/11/06/the-kings-woman-stockholm-syndrome/

[dramalover1]

Funnily enough, I recently read GENERAL AND I in its translated form, and I must say that the heroine archetype from the novel (not the drama, which I sort of skipped around) is eminently more suited as a match for YZ in King's Woman. And mostly, I liked it that she isn't your usual "I can swing a sword around at the expert level that the plot demands" woman, but who uses her mind to get what she wants. (Also in the novel, she's described as average or slightly above average in appearance, but it's her brilliant mind and gentle soul that the men fall for. And the hero falls for her without even seeing her face initially because he finds her qin performance mesmerizing) 

[guava99]

Hello everyone, I'm new here. All reviews here are very interesting and make me wanna join the discussion. I just finished watching TKW two days ago and I can say that I love the drama. This is the second drama this year that enters into my favorite drama list after Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms.

It's not perfect, of course, but overall it's enjoyable. In my opinion, I think someone else here has mentioned it, the drama should have less than 48 episodes because there are some scenes that actually, again in my opinion, are not necessary. I also find it's weird that The King told Li Zhong (the king's guard) the reason of choosing TM as a crown prince is to keep Li'er by his side. I mean, he has let her go before and I don't think it's only his tactic to get Li'er sympathy since he cried and talked to himself in the carriage that Li'er was only his dream and bla bla bla when no one around.

I find it's interesting that both Madam (Madam Chu and Min) told Li'er that she cannot trust the King. The quote "Love is Blind" is sometimes being right. Both Madam never loved the King. They stay in the palace for the sake of power and their respective motherlands. Hence, both of them could see the King better than Li'er.

In my opinion, Li'er loves the King and not JK since as far as I can remember she never said that she love her senior. However, it's a little bit bother me that she never told the King directly that she loves him till the end (or maybe I miss it). She only told her feelings to HS.

The ending is tragic, but I like it. The moment when she turns the sword to herself is very touching. Until the end, she will protect the King.

 

The King is extremely cruel. My knowledge of Chinese history is not good and I only know that he is the first emperor who unified China and  built the Great Wall. Is he really that ruthless in the real life?

[dramalover1]

12 hours ago, guava99 said:

Hello everyone, I'm new here. All reviews here are very interesting and make me wanna join the discussion. I just finished watching TKW two days ago and I can say that I love the drama. This is the second drama this year that enters into my favorite drama list after Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms.

It's not perfect, of course, but overall it's enjoyable. In my opinion, I think someone else here has mentioned it, the drama should have less than 48 episodes because there are some scenes that actually, again in my opinion, are not necessary. I also find it's weird that The King told Li Zhong (the king's guard) the reason of choosing TM as a crown prince is to keep Li'er by his side. I mean, he has let her go before and I don't think it's only his tactic to get Li'er sympathy since he cried and talked to himself in the carriage that Li'er was only his dream and bla bla bla when no one around.

I find it's interesting that both Madam (Madam Chu and Min) told Li'er that she cannot trust the King. The quote "Love is Blind" is sometimes being right. Both Madam never loved the King. They stay in the palace for the sake of power and their respective motherlands. Hence, both of them could see the King better than Li'er.

In my opinion, Li'er loves the King and not JK since as far as I can remember she never said that she love her senior. However, it's a little bit bother me that she never told the King directly that she loves him till the end (or maybe I miss it). She only told her feelings to HS.

The ending is tragic, but I like it. The moment when she turns the sword to herself is very touching. Until the end, she will protect the King.

 

The King is extremely cruel. My knowledge of Chinese history is not good and I only know that he is the first emperor who unified China and  built the Great Wall. Is he really that ruthless in the real life?

Sweet marshmallows don't get to unite a vast empire...

[pirpir]

Could You somebody help me? I couldn't download to English subtitles. If anyone add to subtitles I'm so grateful.

[dramalover1]

18 hours ago, pirpir said:

Could You somebody help me? I couldn't download to English subtitles. If anyone add to subtitles I'm so grateful.

 

You can't. You can watch the subbed editions on Youtube, Viki or DramaFever.

[watchumlots]

@Guava99:  Inresponse to your post regarding the other princess/consorts advising SwordWoman...

 

The other women (in the series) providing advice were royalty in their homelands.   Those women were from families whose pursuit of power is natural.  They have been around gossiping maids, scheming administrators,  conniving nobles, and competing relatives their entire lives.  SwordWoman was raised wandering the wilderness wielding a sword while practicing the little-known and rarely-practiced art of chivalry.  They surely felt she was a babe-in-the-woods among all the dangerous and hungry prey animals in the palace.   And they were correct.   They had the king pegged:  selfish, vain, temperamental, ambitious, greedy, suspicious, and single-minded in his goal.

 

SwordWoman felt if she remained true to herself, disinterested in internal politics, she could live happily with the king.  She could be his refuge.  I think the reason (in the series) he wanted her was the throwback to his childhood memory and when he finally met her again, she wasn't bad looking.  She also was a refreshing change from an arranged political marriage, and she was not immediately submissive and yielding.   But in the end, SwordWoman's body, mind, love, and trust, were simply 'things' he had to acquire.  

 

It was disappointing to see Assassin choose the burden of the deaths of the general and diplomat, rather than the life of his son, as reasons to continue his mission.  After all the blather about family and bloodline, it was just that: blather.  He willingly chose to let someone else raise his son. 

 

The ending... the king lost his humanity and could only see himself as a king with a goal of world domination, in the guise of peace-on-earth.     

[ForgottenSoulx]

How is this show i heard ending is bad?? 

 

Compared to the princess weiyung and princess agents how does it feel?