Quantcast
Jump to content
sugarplum892

[Mainland Chinese Drama 2017] The King’s Woman 泰时丽人明月心

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, rosamundekingsley99_stv said:

Thanks @briaes  - most of us are neither good nor bad and as YZ's mother points out in episode 34, has viewing everything in black and white made YZ happy?  YZ was single-minded about his goals and people who care too much about others do not succeed in achieving their goals.  Also, if YZ had a heart, he would not have tried to unite the kingdoms and muscled on despite all the death and mayhem created by his vision - and that is his consistency.  He may like, love and be hurt but at the end of the day, he roars like a tiger and moves on.

 

I can think of many modern business titans who are similar in personality and outlook as YZ.

 

Again, this has been the best forum - everyone's contributions have made me think and laugh (especially kebabs - I shall never look at them the same way!).  But has anyone noticed that we spend most of our time writing and arguing about YZ's character and we barely make a mention about Li or JK except to throw our hands up in the hair or make fun of them?  There was a moment when I thought that this drama did a great thing in acknowledging the vagaries of the human heart and the fact that there are people are neither 100% all good or bad but that it depends on the environment and how committed to one's principles one is willing to be because purists rarely survive.  So there was no "truly" good guy/girl; in fact, in the standard drama YZ would be the bad guy except ZBB did too good a job (like Daniel Chan did with the king in Lan Ling Wang) and brought his foibles and vulnerabilities to life for us so that we could empathize at least with him from time to time regardless of what we thought of his motives and actions.  He was not a cardboard character whereas JK faded into cardboard territory and to a certain extent so did Li because she was kind of like IU in the Korean version of Scarlet Heart - as viewers, we could not understand Li's motivations or thoughts and so we kind of tuned out from time to time.  Dramabeans pointed out that IU's character could not be figured out by the viewer and therefore we lost sympathy and empathy for her.

 

Whereas as with YZ, from the smirk, swagger, stern expression to the efficient slicing of throats with a flick of a wrist, we understood what he was feeling and what he was doing.  We did not condone it but we knew and to a certain extent there was a part of us that had been where he had been.  I mean wanting world peace and helping the weak are such beauty pageant responses; but wanting everyone to fear you in order to protect the ones you love, that is a double-edged sword - yes, you can protect the ones you love when everyone fears you but the ones you love fear you too and that love departs, and then as the intended recipient, you stop knowing the line between fear and love.  Kind of like the Phantom from Phantom of the Opera.

 

@rosamundekingsley99_stv

Thank you. Your post is very thought provoking. How the human race have evolved socially through our perceived civilisation yet our basic survival instincts remained unchanged. Our brain is definitely wired for survival the way we want and choose it.

 

And i believe you are much more than a scriptwriter, you are a humanities guru. :)

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@rosamundekingsley99_stv- you said that the eyes are the door of the soul, YZ never hid his soul and that :

Quote

he still had one when this drama began; you just questioned whether he had tossed it away when he killed Li and roared on the steps of his palace hall

I think after killing Li, he might well have done.IMO he gave up on all hope of intimacy like LBW, and as he said in 35, he could not protect her/anyone  anymore probably from himself as well. The real YZ incorporated a very mechanical system-obey the rules or be (harshly)punished . He( in a way) sold his soul for the state and then gave it up entirely after that. That's what made the ending so sad for me , as all hope of the good things in himself he had also hoped for, went when he killed her. And maybe the dream of her had represented these things.She made a grand gesture effectively trying to make him understand, but I don't know in the end if he either understood it or learned anything from it. Maybe again it's the way it was written/acted that made it seem  sad and (a bit) pointless to me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, january1234 said:

@rosamundekingsley99_stv- you said that the eyes are the door of the soul, YZ never hid his soul and that :

I think after killing Li, he might well have done.IMO he gave up on all hope of intimacy like LBW, and as he said in 35, he could not protect her/anyone  anymore probably from himself as well. The real YZ incorporated a very mechanical system-obey the rules or be (harshly)punished . He( in a way) sold his soul for the state and then gave it up entirely after that. That's what made the ending so sad for me , as all hope of the good things in himself he had also hoped for, went when he killed her. And maybe the dream of her had represented these things.She made a grand gesture effectively trying to make him understand, but I don't know in the end if he either understood it or learned anything from it. Maybe again it's the way it was written/acted that made it seem  sad and (a bit) pointless to me.

@january1234  You have connected the loop that these writers probably intended but it is taking awhile for us to connect them because the drama was 48 episodes - you're right in episode 35 and 36, YZ admitted that he could not protect Li or anyone anymore; one of the few moments in this drama that was moving (and it took me some time away to rewatch it) was when he leaves Li with Han Shen without looking back.  A tear or two rolls down his right cheek and he has to remind himself that he is the king of Qin and that he cannot stop here and that perhaps Li was too good for him and that she was just a dream.  Even if I had not expected a NOT happy ending, this by itself gave me plenty of hints that they would not end together happily or separately happily.  He needs to gaze at his people to remind himself that he needs to give up a dream of personal happiness, and for one brief blue moon, she represented the dream of happiness and normality that he knew deep down that he could not ever achieve because he was not willing to walk away from being king of Qin.  Which frankly he could not have anyway in real life.  

 

Perhaps some of our dissatisfaction with the writers on this drama is that it reminds us too vividly of the choices that we have to make and the pain that comes from some of the chosen choices consequences; this drama does not give us sunshine and roses and no one is ever able to "have it all."  It provides the keen and painful lesson that we must give up something that we may love the most to achieve something else - and actually, it is interesting because the general who lost his daughter in the Korean version of Scarlet Heart said that same thing - he was only interested in supporting Wang So for king if he demonstrated that he would give up the thing that he loves the most; and Wang So's father gave up the woman he loved for his empire and when she took the fall for the mayhem created by his queen, he stoically uttered that as king he must know when it is time to throw away people and things.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@rosamundekingsley99_stv -I agree fully.35/6 were sweet and sad for me too. I remember  he did say to LBW after LBW and D Huayang induced the removal of Chengjiao something to the effect he was forced into that position and wished he was an ordinary person (and of course he was happy for a few moments in 36 pretending to be a peasant). I think it was after he exiled LBW and his Mother -and after he reconnected with Li that he started   thinking/plotting to get her to his palace. In effect he was all alone then. LBW had effectively been too successful as Regent in beginning to annexe the other states and spread the influence of Qin -and you got the impression that YZ couldn't just abdicate his position-too many people were already out for his blood. Also, I agree, deep down he wouldn't have as power is addictive-and he had wanted that as a child.This was why he was wishfully dreaming  he could  have both if he had  as consort the Ultimate Warrior Queen.But of course to survive as that, you'd have to have a Warrior Version of Li with a deeply hidden core of steel-one who was not quite so impetuous/rash and transparent as written.Sometimes I felt like shouting "Get a GRIP!!" at her because she seemed impossibly naive. I wouldn't have liked her to be  as devious as Min-but I'd perhaps have liked to have seen her calculating the risks a bit more. I mean-we're expecting him to learn from HER-but realistically, to survive in the palace for that long with a child that wasn't his, I'd have expected growth in the form  of street smarts., and the ability like Min to hide in plain sight. Unless of course we're to believe SHE couldn't change her essential nature either i.e. if he 's a tiger, she's a deer.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, january1234 said:

@rosamundekingsley99_stv -I agree fully.35/6 were sweet and sad for me too. I remember  he did say to LBW after LBW and D Huayang induced the removal of Chengjiao something to the effect he was forced into that position and wished he was an ordinary person (and of course he was happy for a few moments in 36 pretending to be a peasant). I think it was after he exiled LBW and his Mother -and after he reconnected with Li that he started   thinking/plotting to get her to his palace. In effect he was all alone then. LBW had effectively been too successful as Regent in beginning to annexe the other states and spread the influence of Qin -and you got the impression that YZ couldn't just abdicate his position-too many people were already out for his blood. Also, I agree, deep down he wouldn't have as power is addictive-and he had wanted that as a child.This was why he was wishfully dreaming  he could  have both if he had  as consort the Ultimate Warrior Queen.But of course to survive as that, you'd have to have a Warrior Version of Li with a deeply hidden core of steel-one who was not quite so impetuous/rash and transparent as written.Sometimes I felt like shouting "Get a GRIP!!" at her because she seemed impossibly naive. I wouldn't have liked her to be  as devious as Min-but I'd perhaps have liked to have seen her calculating the risks a bit more. I mean-we're expecting him to learn from HER-but realistically, to survive in the palace for that long with a child that wasn't his, I'd have expected growth in the form  of street smarts., and the ability like Min to hide in plain sight. Unless of course we're to believe SHE couldn't change her essential nature either i.e. if he 's a tiger, she's a deer.

@january1234 Agree except that at least YZ was self-aware enough to know that he was a tiger; I think that Li mistakenly believed herself to be a tiger when she was really a deer.  And YZ mistakenly believed that she was a tiger because of her martial arts prowess but fundamentally did not understand her soft heart; YZ respected her smarts.  

 

On the other hand, when they were in the cave in episode 37, maybe YZ did understand her soft, naive heart and still loved her for this anyway.  Because she rescued him constnatly, I think that she mistakenly thought that she was a tiger.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Li is inconsistent b/c writers made her be whatever they needed her to be to move the plot along.

 

YZ is very consistent within his internal makeup, except in Ep 41? (where he had a breakdown after Handan massacre). I thought that was VERY poorly done.

 

The prob is that maybe the authors wanted to make Li the non-changing character who brings about changes in others like YZ, JK and HS. But in order for someone to be a change agent, the person has to play the mentor role, and I felt that Li was too inconsistent in internal makeup to be the change agent/ mentor-like character b/c she doesn't exhibit wisdom and care such characters need to exhibit.

 

For example 

 

By falling in love w/ Li, YZ becomes softer. Except... Li only made YZ more jealous and suspicious b/c her crazy antics. 

 

JK -- Li urges JK master the sword technique, but other than that, he remains a loser. 

 

(BTW - historically, JK wasn't known for his sword technique. He was vanquished easily by YZ in a one-on-one combat in real history... I think in drama, they had to turn him into a martyr, and had him poisoned.)

 

HS -- Li urges HS to find his happiness although he comes back to her again. But HS is another character that doesnt' grow and enables Li to be foolish and does stupid things that makes YZ jealous and suspicious.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 hours ago, dramalover1 said:

Li is inconsistent b/c writers made her be whatever they needed her to be to move the plot along.

 

JK -- Li urges JK master the sword technique, but other than that, he remains a loser. 

 

(BTW - historically, JK wasn't known for his sword technique. He was vanquished easily by YZ in a one-on-one combat in real history... I think in drama, they had to turn him into a martyr, and had him poisoned.)

 


@dramalover1  Hi.

Except for YZ and JK, were Li and HS real in history?

How close is this drama to the historical facts?


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dancingbee said:

 


@dramalover1  Hi.

Except for YZ and JK, were Li and HS real in history?

How close is this drama to the historical facts?


 

 

Both are fake. 

 

The assassination is real. Yan Dan is real. But everything else is fake. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, dramalover1 said:

 

Both are fake. 

 

The assassination is real. Yan Dan is real. But everything else is fake. 

 

Thank you @dramalover1
Would you happen to know....
In real life, what role did JK have in history? I could not find any info. And the assassination? What significance did it really have to the Qin Dynasty?
In the drama, JK did not make a lot of sense all the way to the end. But he is a real figure. I am curious what he actually did in that era...
And Yan Dan too...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dancingbee said:

 

Thank you @dramalover1
Would you happen to know....
In real life, what role did JK have in history? I could not find any info. And the assassination? What significance did it really have to the Qin Dynasty?
In the drama, JK did not make a lot of sense all the way to the end. But he is a real figure. I am curious what he actually did in that era...
And Yan Dan too...

 

 

JK didn't do much as far as I know. He failed to kill YZ. Thats' that.

 

But it did enrage YZ so he invaded Yan (Dan's country) and destroyed it even tho Yan King killed Yan Dan to appease YZ. Yan Dan didn't do much either. He returned to his kingdom and decided to assassinate YZ. Most believe he did it b/c he hated YZ, not b/c he cared about his country, etc. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@dramalover1 Can I ask how do you know Li is not real? Emperor Qin legacy and Im not referring to his achievements on the battlefield or dominance in China but more towards his love life. Did he ever have any moments of hesitation? Even in this drama, when you referred to the scene of his breakdown after killing so many people... surely it's possible for a human to feel remorseful afterall its many lives that he killed. Yet I understand historically lives were taken as if it was a norm and our modern way of thinking knows it's morally wrong since we tend to treasure a human life. Different mindsets in different eras. 

Also when he killed JK thru making kebab out of LZ (HAHAHA! @january1234 love your reference and pls dont mind me using it again) to me it didnt show YZ ruthlessness but more that LZ death of protecting him will not go in vain. His death allowed him to not only kill JK but served as a reminder of what their initial goal was /is. Again I see that a soldier's goal is to protect their King/ Nation even if it is at the risk of their own lives. Similar mindsets of our soldiers today. 

 

Anyway to continue, did Emperor Qin ever love someone that perhaps we were never told or made aware of? Surely a man of such power and intelligence (despite his tyrant ways of thinking) would spark some love? I mean he cant be all that cold blooded as history paints him to be? There got to be another reason why he never had a Queen other than not trusting others being too busy ruling the Nations?

 

Am I wrong? I dunno I like to think that Emperor Qin did have a love in his life, that he was capable of it? Maybe despite the HUGE flaws of this drama Im glad I could see a different side of Emperor Qin that it was possible that he did love someone as much as Li? or that it was indeed possible that Emperor Qin isnt as cold blooded.

I hope I make some sense lol! Im confusing myself too.:tongue:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kasmic said:

@dramalover1 Can I ask how do you know Li is not real? Emperor Qin legacy and Im not referring to his achievements on the battlefield or dominance in China but more towards his love life. Did he ever have any moments of hesitation? Even in this drama, when you referred to the scene of his breakdown after killing so many people... surely it's possible for a human to feel remorseful afterall its many lives that he killed. Yet I understand historically lives were taken as if it was a norm and our modern way of thinking knows it's morally wrong since we tend to treasure a human life. Different mindsets in different eras. 

Also when he killed JK thru making kebab out of LZ (HAHAHA! @january1234 love your reference and pls dont mind me using it again) to me it didnt show YZ ruthlessness but more that LZ death of protecting him will not go in vain. His death allowed him to not only kill JK but served as a reminder of what their initial goal was /is. Again I see that a soldier's goal is to protect their King/ Nation even if it is at the risk of their own lives. Similar mindsets of our soldiers today. 

 

Anyway to continue, did Emperor Qin ever love someone that perhaps we were never told or made aware of? Surely a man of such power and intelligence (despite his tyrant ways of thinking) would spark some love? I mean he cant be all that cold blooded as history paints him to be? There got to be another reason why he never had a Queen other than not trusting others being too busy ruling the Nations?

 

Am I wrong? I dunno I like to think that Emperor Qin did have a love in his life, that he was capable of it? Maybe despite the HUGE flaws of this drama Im glad I could see a different side of Emperor Qin that it was possible that he did love someone as much as Li? or that it was indeed possible that Emperor Qin isnt as cold blooded.

I hope I make some sense lol! Im confusing myself too.:tongue:

 

Becuase there's  absolutely  no record of such a woman anywhere. Not to mention there's no record of JK's lover either. Given YZ's personality and ruling philosophy, it's highly unlikely he let a woman who caused chaos and ignored palace rules live, much less loved her. He wasn't hunted like a dog while in Zhao. He also BURIED the people who offended him and their family members while they were alive in Handan, so it's unlikely he saw the dead or let the blood flow like that and had a breakdown. LBW killed himself so YZ didn't kill him and it's unlikely that LBW was his daddy anyway. He also did not need Li for conquests because he had some of the best generals in the world. He also had thousands of women so I doubt he loved any one in particular. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still stuck with this drama even though it s over with a tragic ending. Only focus on their good times together. Any drama recomendation ? I m watching 3 dramas currently. (While you were sleeping, man who sets the table, memory love). 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ella777 said:

Still stuck with this drama even though it s over with a tragic ending. Only focus on their good times together. Any drama recomendation ? I m watching 3 dramas currently. (While you were sleeping, man who sets the table, memory love). 

 

If you haven't seen it yet, I rec ETERNAL LOVE - 10 MILES OF PEACH BLOSSOMS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't have all at the same time. Just like YZ. He lost everyone even LZ. But just like in real life, we don't just achieve great things just like that, it takes A LOT.

 

The ending for me is just right. The only thing that i don't like is when HS died. I think his death doesn't have meaning. He could have help raise TM with Lan. But what i think doesn't matter because i know that everything that happened are needed for the story, it's just that at this moment i couldn't see the relevance of his death. Oh well.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funnily enough, I recently read GENERAL AND I in its translated form, and I must say that the heroine archetype from the novel (not the drama, which I sort of skipped around) is eminently more suited as a match for YZ in King's Woman. And mostly, I liked it that she isn't your usual "I can swing a sword around at the expert level that the plot demands" woman, but who uses her mind to get what she wants. (Also in the novel, she's described as average or slightly above average in appearance, but it's her brilliant mind and gentle soul that the men fall for. And the hero falls for her without even seeing her face initially because he finds her qin performance mesmerizing) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello everyone, I'm new here. All reviews here are very interesting and make me wanna join the discussion. I just finished watching TKW two days ago and I can say that I love the drama. This is the second drama this year that enters into my favorite drama list after Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms.

It's not perfect, of course, but overall it's enjoyable. In my opinion, I think someone else here has mentioned it, the drama should have less than 48 episodes because there are some scenes that actually, again in my opinion, are not necessary. I also find it's weird that The King told Li Zhong (the king's guard) the reason of choosing TM as a crown prince is to keep Li'er by his side. I mean, he has let her go before and I don't think it's only his tactic to get Li'er sympathy since he cried and talked to himself in the carriage that Li'er was only his dream and bla bla bla when no one around.

I find it's interesting that both Madam (Madam Chu and Min) told Li'er that she cannot trust the King. The quote "Love is Blind" is sometimes being right. Both Madam never loved the King. They stay in the palace for the sake of power and their respective motherlands. Hence, both of them could see the King better than Li'er.

In my opinion, Li'er loves the King and not JK since as far as I can remember she never said that she love her senior. However, it's a little bit bother me that she never told the King directly that she loves him till the end (or maybe I miss it). She only told her feelings to HS.

The ending is tragic, but I like it. The moment when she turns the sword to herself is very touching. Until the end, she will protect the King.

 

The King is extremely cruel. My knowledge of Chinese history is not good and I only know that he is the first emperor who unified China and  built the Great Wall. Is he really that ruthless in the real life?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, guava99 said:

Hello everyone, I'm new here. All reviews here are very interesting and make me wanna join the discussion. I just finished watching TKW two days ago and I can say that I love the drama. This is the second drama this year that enters into my favorite drama list after Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms.

It's not perfect, of course, but overall it's enjoyable. In my opinion, I think someone else here has mentioned it, the drama should have less than 48 episodes because there are some scenes that actually, again in my opinion, are not necessary. I also find it's weird that The King told Li Zhong (the king's guard) the reason of choosing TM as a crown prince is to keep Li'er by his side. I mean, he has let her go before and I don't think it's only his tactic to get Li'er sympathy since he cried and talked to himself in the carriage that Li'er was only his dream and bla bla bla when no one around.

I find it's interesting that both Madam (Madam Chu and Min) told Li'er that she cannot trust the King. The quote "Love is Blind" is sometimes being right. Both Madam never loved the King. They stay in the palace for the sake of power and their respective motherlands. Hence, both of them could see the King better than Li'er.

In my opinion, Li'er loves the King and not JK since as far as I can remember she never said that she love her senior. However, it's a little bit bother me that she never told the King directly that she loves him till the end (or maybe I miss it). She only told her feelings to HS.

The ending is tragic, but I like it. The moment when she turns the sword to herself is very touching. Until the end, she will protect the King.

 

The King is extremely cruel. My knowledge of Chinese history is not good and I only know that he is the first emperor who unified China and  built the Great Wall. Is he really that ruthless in the real life?

Sweet marshmallows don't get to unite a vast empire...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could You somebody help me? I couldn't download to English subtitles. If anyone add to subtitles I'm so grateful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...