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[Mainland Chinese Drama 2017] The King’s Woman 泰时丽人明月心

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29 minutes ago, dramalover1 said:

 

I don't care bout Li dying that much because I don't like her.

 

BUT WHY DID THEY KILL LI ZHONG???? I wanted YZ and LZ to be happy together!!!!!!!!

Sorry I laughed becos I never thought about the bromance between them kekeke! But in seriousness it just made YZ realise more that his moment of hestitancy can prove fatal to those whom he treasures. LZ death served as a reminder of YZ purpose - yut tong tien ha! (In Cantonese- sorry I tried my best to write the ping yang as closely as possible :tongue:) or simply to rule over the 6 nations :D

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Thank you for all your posts everyone.  So enjoyable reading all the many intelligent, articulate and entertaining posts here whilst the drama ends leaving us confused, frustrated and disappointed.  You have put into words so many of my thoughts and disappointments: the inconsistency, plot confusion, Li's messy characterization, the treatment of YZ-LJ's relationship, what a charismaless limp lettuce Jing Ke is (character and actor). I had such high hopes in the beginning but my overall feeling towards the drama is now basically WTF? :expressionless:  It feels like there were multiple writers and scissor happy editors working on this and no one could quite agree so we ended up with this "pudding" as another poster aptly described it in an earlier post.  I feel cheated because it feels like such a missed opportunity especially as I think some aspects of the drama were very good like ZBB /DD's chemistry, the filming (bad special effects aside), cinematography, fight scenes, costumes, sets, some of the actors, even some of the writing in places but not enough to salvage the lacking aspects.   These last few weeks I'm mainly keeping up via the Drama Panda recaps, all your entertaining posts and watching selected scenes mostly featuring ZBB and now I'm just relieved it's over.  Thanks for trying to help make sense of the ending @eighbcdefg

 

Big thank you to all the wonderful posters who posts the clips, subs, raws, cute BTS. I'm sure I speak for all the visitors to this thread when I say we appreciate your efforts :)

 

@Kasmic and @shimshimae : I've seen you and a few other posters wonder why ZBB was dubbed for this drama.  It'a actually this drama's fault he was dubbed!  He had do so much shouting during filming that he damaged his vocal cords and had severe laryngitis so he hadn't recovered in time to dub his lines as he usually does. 

 

Two things thing I am glad for is I have loved reading the posts from all you wonderful people :heart: AND this drama has given my fave Zhang Bin Bin more exposure and new fans to appreciate how talented he is, his handsome looks and awesome personality as seen in the BTS.  So happy for him seeing all the praise from everyone on the thread :D  Whatever criticisms we have the drama I don't think anyone can deny his talent.  He's done a tremendous job carrying this drama and playing a very heavy character at only 24 years old.  I hope he gets more lead roles going forward and his career keeps getting better and better. 

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On 04/10/2017 at 3:08 AM, dramalover1 said:

 

I don't care bout Li dying that much because I don't like her.

 

BUT WHY DID THEY KILL LI ZHONG???? I wanted YZ and LZ to be happy together!!!!!!!!

This!  Why did Li Zhong have to die?  I expected LJ would eventually die so the only thing that saddened me about Li Ji's death were the flashbacks to happier times and ZBB's heartbreaking acting.  Li Zhong was the only person who was always faithful to YZ and who YZ completely trusted.  Now YZ is completely alone not just in his personal life but his public/political life as well. 

 

On 03/10/2017 at 8:48 AM, briaes said:

 

It's supposed to be JK's heroic moment where maybe he can redeem himself from all his sore loser moments that we've been tormented earlier. Sadly, even in this duel he cant precisely nailed the emotions/expressions required of him. I find it strange too that with his towering height, he doesn't command screen presence. He could've used it to his advantage but he just doesnt seem to carry the aura and the charisma of a decent actor.  And not to mention his screen time with ZBB, he just drowns. Cant even hold a candle to ZBB at all. 

 

I used to wonder which is worse - his character role as a whole or the actor playing the role. I can safely say now it's the quintessential combination of both the actor AND the role. Gosh, this boy is really that bad. He's in dire need of acting classes. He made dumb (himself) look dumber (his role). 

 

Agreed. JK was just a flop through and through!  It was so satisfying watching YZ best him in the fight :tongue:

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@raziela omo ZBB lost his voice geez that must be early on. I guess since this is a preproduced drama the editors can afford to dub the voices. I thought they did this becos of their contracts as many other cdramas are dubbed. Another reason why I cringe while watching them. 

And I agree ZBB demands presence. I saw their interviews and the man sure has it. No wonder he was selected as Emperor Quin. :D I cant wait for his next project to come about. I might try EL as suggested by @dramalover1 but Im picky. His not the lead :dissapointed: oh well Im going back to kdramas. 

Even though I joined much later I had fun here. This thread has been so fun and insightful to read and surpringsly no mods :glasses: though I know their lurking and grinning at my post for mentioning them. I learnt so much history here so THANK YOU all for your contributions. I hope to see your posts again. Im not good at remembering names and pls give a wave when we do cross paths. Its not a farewell as we will meet again and I will still linger here. :blush:

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Thank you to everybody here for taking all the pain and non-sense in the end with me! Also thankfull for ZBB presence not just to GOD, but to Jesus! hahaha without him, this drama would have seriously been crap! By the way, at the end I felt really bad in the way Madame Chu died :( 

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What did I tell you? The main girl dies. XD It is too bad the King couldn't trust her until the very end when she turned back the sword onto herself.. goes to show the man lacks faith and love.

Well at least the King can now have more concubines. bahahaa. Regardless, I will pick this drama back up again once I have time. I stopped at ep 21. 

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thanks everyone for their wonderful recaps and insights of this drama! it was a great pleasure being here to discuss this drama :) Sadly AGAIN they ruined a potentially good drama with crappy writing and that HUGE Disappointment ending -_--_-

well i'm getting used to this thing actually :D first Princess Agents and Now this <_< just one tip, never expect a proper ending for historical chinese dramas just relax and enjoy the show :D

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Thanks everyone for enlightening me on the ending.And for sharing my confusion about the WTF ending.So he learned nothing, and she died so she could teach him a lesson about losing someone valuable (paraphrasing @Kasmic). Really Writers? Didn't he already lose practically ALL the people you normally rely on (Mother/Fathers/brother etc) in one way or another from the time he was young? You could argue that his whole life is about loss-which he might have learned is a necessary condition for uniting the warring states and being the first to do that.Which is why he was so suspicious and self protective and couldn't plan for succession of his dynasty. @rosamundekingsley99_stv, Sima Qian (  Han viewpoint) thought different qualities are needed to attack than to defend a kingdom

I am sadder that the forum discussion is coming to an end-rather than the series.Because of the discussion here-and the generosity I stayed with this my first cdrama for longer than I would have done. I  was going to stop after 24 but kept on to 42.Also many thanks for the things I picked up along the way e.g @lavender2lovefor valuable practical tips, and all the suggestions for further viewing/reading.

@Kasmic-thanks for the legend about the widow..I read about the monument YZ built to one and wondered if Li was the reference to her.Was hoping they'd use it -better.

A better ending for JK would've been to  have died at  the hands of an enraged Ancient Acting Coach in disguise .(The actor must have done some ok work somewhere else-this is a pretty major part in t/o screen time). Guess also Famous Sword Technique fell by wayside-or he was too drunk and tearful to practise.Probably thrown in to rope him into plot.

Good to hear about ZBB.

2 bad about Li Zhong

 

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A sad, lonely ending for Ying Zheng who couldn't overcome all his emotional scars and a tragic end to Li Er and  their relationship :(. Despite my many criticisms of a lot of the writing I did think the ending scenes and flashbacks did a good job of showing things coming full circle with the flashbacks ending with their playful banter when Li Er playfully hit him with the hilt of her sword when their relationship started to soften and sweeten when he gave her back her beloved family sword and seeing all if them together as children in a more innocent time making wishes and, finally, tearful YZ sitting all alone watching the moon having achieved his wish but losing everyone in the process.  DD did a convincing job and ZBB's acting was excellent.  (No comment on the poor special effects-_-)

 

I know a lot of you think DD did a bad job in this drama. I was also bit disappointed by DD's performance overall but I do think Li Ji was so confusing and inconsistently written that she struggled with portraying the character so some blame lies with the screenwriters too.  She'll be alright anyway as she's super popular with lots if agency and industry backing and has tons of projects and endorsements.  Funny thing is both of them joined this project late 2016 before Pretty Li Hui ZhenTen Miles of Peach Blossoms and DD on Keep Running in 2017 made DD super popular and ZBB's popularity and fans increase.

 

@tintin92 I've noticed a lot of Chinese dramas have disappointing endings which is odd as they are mostly pre-produced.  Princess Agents was my biggest drama disappointment this year.  I  had looked forward to it that for months and months as the promos were so good and Zhao Li Ying is my favourite C-actress but I had to drop that completely.  Such a disappointment, fandom particularly all the shipping was a mess  and Chu Qaio was another heroine I struggled to connect with.  I was just glad that it was another ratings hit for Zhao Li Ying and raised the profile of Shawn Dou who I also really like.

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I've seen ep 48 raw. The series is about GSL and she taught YZ how to really love. He thought that loving means taking and or giving all the things you think that will make the other person happy and while it is still love, it's not in its purest form. To love means to trust completely just like the king's woman. She is one of kind.

 

This series is far from perfect but it's beautiful. I will still not hesitate to recommend it to my friends. 

 

 

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@raziela-excellent point about the dagger-it crossed my mind too when I saw one of the pictures of the ending-so they tried to tie that up. It gave me a pang though, back to a time when I thought trust was being established, but clearly it was not.( In a way the endings now color what I saw as the hopefulness of the first half, especially E3 when he found her). Moral of the story-the Tiger doesn't change it's stripes. Your essential nature doesn't change, and I wonder if this YZ learned anything that stayed with him  from killing her.

As this is my first cdrama, I will reserve judgement on DD as an actress until I see her in a range of things. It's true that the script has been so inconsistent that any actress would've struggled with it. however, there were also inconsistencies in the way the YZ character was written but maybe the quality was better, or ZBB was in some way better able to deal with it.

The thing that I take away from this, is not to expect "happy ever after" in cdrama, and that the ending might be so awful, or things twist so much downhill, that I need to pour myself a large glass of wine before viewing.

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2 hours ago, january1234 said:

@raziela-excellent point about the dagger-it crossed my mind too when I saw one of the pictures of the ending-so they tried to tie that up. It gave me a pang though, back to a time when I thought trust was being established, but clearly it was not.( In a way the endings now color what I saw as the hopefulness of the first half, especially E3 when he found her). Moral of the story-the Tiger doesn't change it's stripes. Your essential nature doesn't change, and I wonder if this YZ learned anything that stayed with him  from killing her.

As this is my first cdrama, I will reserve judgement on DD as an actress until I see her in a range of things. It's true that the script has been so inconsistent that any actress would've struggled with it. however, there were also inconsistencies in the way the YZ character was written but maybe the quality was better, or ZBB was in some way better able to deal with it.

The thing that I take away from this, is not to expect "happy ever after" in cdrama, and that the ending might be so awful, or things twist so much downhill, that I need to pour myself a large glass of wine before viewing.

Yes, sadly the ending episodes have coloured the earlier episodes for me and made a lot of the sweet scenes I loved less enjoyable. I feel like despite his flaws as a person and some weak writing  YZ always operated within a consistent framework so I understood why he acted and why he loved the way he did - twisted as his love could be.  On the other hand the writing for Li Er's character was so inconsistent that I question Li Er's feelings too as I found this character so confusing and a lot of her actions fed into YZ's paranoia. Did she truly love YZ? 

 

There just seems to be a big disconnect in the writing between how YZ and LJ's relationship was developing and the last 10 or so episodes particularly post-timeskip.  Hopefully the ending will make a bit more sense with subtitles?

 

I saw a funny post on weibo from a fan who said that they were just going to pretend the series ended at Episode 37 when they were the cute Tiger couple posing as commoners, reunited, happy and in love and excited for their baby.  Quite like that idea :D

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I'm not surprised li'er died - it was already shown at closing of each episode. The ending theme song. 

What is sad that YZ lost the two people who truly knows what he is going through. LZ and Li'er. Only the two of them can he rely on but because of the way his upbringing came about and him knowing that all the woman besides him only want one thing which is to become his empress. It is YZ own fault for not trusting Li'er considering that she saved him multiple times and he knows very full well that she doesn't desire the throne - she could only stand behind him if he lets her wholeheartedly and trust in her. 

I don't blame YZ too for not putting full trust in her. I'm sure that a King has such a hard life regardless like YZ said he can't have a good sleep because someone is always out to kill him. 

 

The main thing that I'm satisfied about is that they finally clear up the childhood part. I love it when Li'er found him helplessly torn sitting in that chamber alone with all these dead bodies. He then tells her who he was -- that little boy she and her senior saved. That little boy who sat with her watching the moon, making their promise. Although, he had told her who he was, at this part of the episode-the look in her eyes, her acting didn't convinced me at all that she was stunned. Her acting at this epic revealing was kind of dead. I thought she should have a better look on her face when she knows of his past tying to hers. Then it seems after she knows the truth - I did not feel a good chemistry anymore between them. It made me felt like their chemistry just went down the drain. Maybe he shouldn't have told her? It appears their chemistry were better before she knew about the childhood memories. 

 

It could also be that because a lot had happened she started to lose interest in them - such as no more quarreling moments. Their love story was truly good until she found out who he was LOL.. Maybe it's just me that didn't felt a stronger bond. I felt more like she stayed beside him because she pity him. I suppose their love got lost in translation. That's just too bad. 

Anyhow, I enjoyed reading everyone's opinion. 

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What I like about the finale ...

 

Spoiler

Firstly, hats off to ZBB for nailing it superbly over and over again. The way he throws his cape as he takes the throne, his smirks when he meets JK's eyes, his laughter (literally send chills down qin wuyang's spine) and the way he said "Good. Come up" to JK.

All these are just GOLD. He's such an imposing and dominating figure, his aura radiates and pierces thru everyone else.

 

A few things noteworthy for me:

 

1. The way how YZ knows of JK's game plan and willingly play along.

 

2. When JK shows YZ Li's drawing and hearing about their carefree life, that was the dealbreaker for him. Trembling with all the bottled up emotions - anger, hurt, disappointment, agony, sorrow, he unleash it all.  Had bloodshot eyes too. Is this really acting? :oSeriously hope JK is pocketing some acting tips from such a strong opponent, as he's as flat in his anger as ever. 

 

3. How YZ wants to settle it the "man's way" by taking it on one to one (LZ's reaction is priceless too). Despite the fact he actually poisons JK doesnt matter cos it's just so him to resort to such dirty tactics to gain an upper hand. Lol

 

4. And of course the duel. For sure its YZ's moment again. I actually like how he gored JK to death. Seemingly gratifying for YZ so as to satiate all his pent up emotions. Its akin to a lil thorn in the finger thats finally pluck out. Satisfying for me too :)

 

 

And what I dont ...

Spoiler

Again the love relationship. That's my biggest pet peeve. I can look past all other flaws but not this one. I've been going on and on in this area like a broken alarm clock in many of my posts, I feel like a grumpy old grouch. Still don't know who Li loves in the end. If her idea of love is to die in the hands of her beloved to teach him a lesson, then I seriously dont get it. (I mean who in her sane mind would go to such drastic and extreme measures)

Dont think I ever will :huh:. I honestly dont mind her dying. In fact, I believe she should given her circumstances but at least have proper closure on where her heart lies. Is that too much to ask...

 

Initially thought I got tickets for a beautiful historical romance, but instead got taken for a ride on an epic fail romance. This whole thing is so mind boggling and abstract, I almost thought it's a jedi training module.  

 

 

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@briaes.  Why the spoiler bars I think everyone knows how it ends now anyway and it's a great post! You summed up exactly what I feel about the good and the bad and ZBB's magnificent acting in the scenes with JK!  

 

I personally think Li Ji did love the King but I can understand why people are confused and in a story like this it isn't something we should be debating or unsure of.  We should KNOW! There's no need for such ambiguity on the writer's part.

 

You know what makes the drama confusion about Li Er's actions and feelings even more annoying?  Apparently in the book the sequence of events are different but near the end JK asks Li Er to go with him and Li Er states clearly that she belongs and wants to stay by the King's side and it's clear she loves him.  In the book her romance with the King has way less development, focus or lovey dovey moments that we saw in the drama so I don't know why the drama writer chose to make her character so baffling by the end especially when Li Ji and JK are so unconvincing together and have non-existent chemistry.

 

Drama Panda recaps (wonder how the recapper feels about the latest events?):

Episode 30: http://www.dramapanda.com/2017/09/the-kings-woman-episode-30-recap.html

Episode 31: http://www.dramapanda.com/2017/10/the-kings-woman-episode-31-recap.html

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, briaes said:

What I like about the finale ...

 

  Hide contents

Firstly, hats off to ZBB for nailing it superbly over and over again. The way he throws his cape as he takes the throne, his smirks when he meets JK's eyes, his laughter (literally send chills down qin wuyang's spine) and the way he said "Good. Come up" to JK.

All these are just GOLD. He's such an imposing and dominating figure, his aura radiates and pierces thru everyone else.

 

A few things noteworthy for me:

 

1. The way how YZ knows of JK's game plan and willingly play along.

 

2. When JK shows YZ Li's drawing and hearing about their carefree life, that was the dealbreaker for him. Trembling with all the bottled up emotions - anger, hurt, disappointment, agony, sorrow, he unleash it all.  Had bloodshot eyes too. Is this really acting? :oSeriously hope JK is pocketing some acting tips from such a strong opponent, as he's as flat in his anger as ever. 

 

3. How YZ wants to settle it the "man's way" by taking it on one to one (LZ's reaction is priceless too). Despite the fact he actually poisons JK doesnt matter cos it's just so him to resort to such dirty tactics to gain an upper hand. Lol

 

4. And of course the duel. For sure its YZ's moment again. I actually like how he gored JK to death. Seemingly gratifying for YZ so as to satiate all his pent up emotions. Its akin to a lil thorn in the finger thats finally pluck out. Satisfying for me too :)

 

 

And what I dont ...

  Hide contents

Again the love relationship. That's my biggest pet peeve. I can look past all other flaws but not this one. I've been going on and on in this area like a broken alarm clock in many of my posts, I feel like a grumpy old grouch. Still don't know who Li loves in the end. If her idea of love is to die in the hands of her beloved to teach him a lesson, then I seriously dont get it. (I mean who in her sane mind would go to such drastic and extreme measures)

Dont think I ever will :huh:. I honestly dont mind her dying. In fact, I believe she should given her circumstances but at least have proper closure on where her heart lies. Is that too much to ask...

 

Initially thought I got tickets for a beautiful historical romance, but instead got taken for a ride on an epic fail romance. This whole thing is so mind boggling and abstract, I almost thought it's a jedi training module.  

 

 

 

 

UGh.

 

THE ONLY GOOD THING ABOUT THE ENDING IS JK IS DEAD.

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@briaes-agree-you nailed the summary-and your earlier one about what's important to whom.And the love relationship(?!!!)

@raziela-yes, you were right-we should "know" about their love . I too  became confused about their love  (but as you said at least he was consistent.)-I thought more should've been resolved between them  at 37 when he apologized (? still don't know why) for Yan Dan.I  also  don't know  what her her reaction to the Handan massacre was (someone said she seemed stunned). I'd have expected a lot more reaction from her as she has been written  as woman with a high regard for other people's life and a woman of noble principles.What you have said about the book is interesting-and I agree that her interactions with JK in the series have been so ambiguous that I was guessing to the end who she'd die for.But as @tudorrose-said, the actual ending seems to have been a sad and beautiful tearjerker.(Shame about the confusion in between) Perhaps, I should've ended at 37.Frankly, still confused...

 

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I'm so upset by the ending. I don't even want to talk about it now.

 

But no matter what happened to the ending, it does not change the fact that this Chinese drama is awesome in its settings, costumes and casts. Special mention is given to actor Zhang Vin as the "King"- I can't imagine another actor for the role. This drama is more on the King himself rather than the "King's Woman". That's how brilliant an actor Zhang Vin is. His screen presence is overpowering that it swallows the other character's presence. He deserves an excellence award for his acting and he deserves even more acting projects in the future. Dilireba and Zhang Vin's onscreen and offscreen chemistry is also undeniable. I love them and I even ship them in real life. I just hope they can star again in other drama which has happy ending. I am a fan of happy endings and I stay away from tragic endings as much as possible.

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21 minutes ago, january1234 said:

@briaes-agree-you nailed the summary-and your earlier one about what's important to whom.And the love relationship(?!!!)

@raziela-yes, you were right-we should "know" about their love . I too  became confused about their love  (but as you said at least he was consistent.)-I thought more should've been resolved between them  at 37 when he apologized (? still don't know why) for Yan Dan.I  also  don't know  what her her reaction to the Handan massacre was (someone said she seemed stunned). I'd have expected a lot more reaction from her as she has been written  as woman with a high regard for other people's life and a woman of noble principles.What you have said about the book is interesting-and I agree that her interactions with JK in the series have been so ambiguous that I was guessing to the end who she'd die for.But as @tudorrose-said, the actual ending seems to have been a sad and beautiful tearjerker.(Shame about the confusion in between) Perhaps, I should've ended at 37.Frankly, still confused...

 

 

DD is not good enough of an actress to project more than 1 emotion at at time, and up to 3 emotions per drama. (That's what I learned watching TKW)

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