[Drama 2016] Cheese In The Trap 치즈 인 더 트랩

[MrsSoJiSub]

Someone asked about victim mentality. I posted some "analysis" if you will on what was posted from the webtoon and what I have seen in the webtoon and drama below. Disclaimer: I am just a graduate student. I have yet to receive my Ph.D or licensing. I am in my second year now and still got plenty of learning to do.  Please do not take what I say as that of a professional. I am only a one day hopefully a flawless professional. Also these are fictional characters and writers can do what they want without really going too deep in the psychology of it all. I am human I make mistakes.  

Spoiler

Victim mentality is a learned personality trait, again it’s learned where you think you are the victim in any given situation. You have a negative view of the world and or even yourself. You think everyone is out to get you. So things that may seem simple and noting let it go, to us is something to them you did on purpose to hurt them, to take from them, to use them, make them even more powerless, and show them that they have no control. 

People with victim mentality can have higher amounts of negative emotions like anger, sadness, anxiety, fear, etc. Children tend to learn victim mentality from watching family members or those around them who complain a lot. They blame others or bad luck for things that befall them and gain something positive from doing this. It can be internal (you were worried or stressed but once blaming it on others once confirming it wasn’t your fault, you are now at ease. It can also be external reward such as the attention of others, affection, intimacy, time, money, jewelry, etc.

For young kids it varies on how they learn this behavior. Again it can be learned from watching others but more often it is learned from situations of unjust. You get punished for something that wasn’t your fault. Another person is made the victim, you see them rewarded for your victim hood and through that you develop a victim mentality and or it can be a situation where you are truly not the victim but through playing the victim you are rewarded where another may receive blame or punishment and there you go learning it even more. Children who develop victim mentality tend to come from neglectful homes.

“Rewards” can be many different things, depending on the age and the person themselves. Whatever you gain from playing the victim is your reward. For most children who learn and develop victim mentality, it tends to be attention, nurture, care, feeling safe, secure, wanted, the basic fundamental things parents are supposed to provide but many parents neglect to do. Jung had two very busy parents who barely had time for him. From what I seen in the webtoon the only time his mother held him was after that one incident where a desired reward was given. She was attentive towards him, cared for him. What Jung wanted and needed at the time was his parents care. He needed their attention, focus, time spend with him. Reassure him. Make him feel loved and wanted. Jung was being neglected. He blamed outside forces real or imagined for taking his parents from him. He played the victim to get attention, the care, the awareness of self and being in here, that he does exist, and to no longer be neglected.

I really have no clue as to how or why gramps Baek thought adding siblings would help matters. It was really just another thing for Jung to blame (and seeing the type of freedom and attention they got and he did not. Like hello). Another way for him to be the victim. Mom and dad don’t love me because of these people. Mom and dad care about these people not me. Dad can laugh with these people but not me which then adds on to the negative image they have of themselves, the self-criticism, and the doubt.  People with victim mentalities are very harsh on themselves, very doubtful of themselves. Then none of it helps that at times Jung’s father would make Jung the victim which then is when he shows Jung the attention he craves which is just a vicious double edged sword. Jung does something weird which makes his father find him weird and gives him that attention he seeks but also feeds into that anxiety or fear of this negative view of himself…it’s like a twisted snowball that got pushed down the hill when Jung was young and grow bigger and bigger as his father and Jung and the world did so much to allow it to get bigger and grow into something chronic. During those formative years, the support of family and care he needed to unlearn his victim mentality was not provided.

Jung is a complicated case because it started when he was young and then built up as he grew because he became a victim of abuse and manipulation that further added to his victim mentality. Those who are abused and manipulated gain the self-image of being the victim all the time and see themselves as just that. They think themselves as powerless (yes the great Jung thinks himself powerless hence all the background dealing). People will just use them, or lie to or betray or manipulate or want something from. Jung’s whole life even till college. And hence his whole “you are just like everyone else” trip. The being watched, the Jung is a strange other, the betrayals, the lies, the hand incident, so much has added to Jung’s victim mentality. Being the real victim adds to victim mentality because of course bad things don’t happen all the time and you are not the victim in any and every situation especially the ones you made/make but this what people with victim mentality have learned.

It also comes from a negative self-image. I’m powerless, I have no self-control, no self-being. Am I the strange one? Am I the bad guy? When you make yourself the victim and blame others you feel some sort positive conformation of yourself (I’m not strange they are, I’m not bad, they are). You may feel powerless or like you have no control. However once you become a victim you gain a bit of control. You feel a false power and control when you play the victim and you weave your story it also goes into the self-judgment (I’m not bad or weird they are) self-criticism (something is wrong with you Jung, you don’t behave like other people, etc that he Jung does to himself and others do to him too), and self-image (I’m bad, I’m I bad? Don’t think of me as the bad guy). All this has informed how Jung now interacts with the world.

Then that need for revenge, dish out what has been gotten for Jung I believe it stems from emotional abuse that started at a young age (there were some situations where Jung’s father blamed him or said it was his fault or made him feel emotionally belittled and wronged basically situations of unfairness) Jung and his father developed this dysfunctional way of handling each other, and the way Jung behaved when he was younger to cause suffering as a way of seeking attention, was such heavy emotional and behavioral constraints (we saw it in the flashback, at dinner, in his every interaction) that it became abusive and Jung began to feel hurt and insulted by it all. Since Jung at that age (and even now?) was powerless to stop that abuse or get help from others to have it stop. He begin to see the whole world as unfair (“you two are lucky you can do whatever you want”).

As a way of coping with the abuse and “unfairness” and hurt of all that happened, retaliation happens. Dishing out to the world what was received by dad (and others) then and now. Which in Jung’s case is cunning, manipulation, deceit, do and you gain and I gain. Jung is angry at his father (and maybe his mom too) which comes from a place of hurt and neglect “some people are easier to love” so now he feels hate and wants revenge. He can’t openly hate and get revenge on his father (he may not even know he hates and wants revenge on his father, this feelings maybe unconscious and he may feel he really is getting back at the world that has wronged him). A dysfunctional, self-destructive, defense mechanism Jung himself may not be aware of. He is unconsciously getting revenge on his father through the world because he is bitter and hurt from many a things that happened. But has it become aware and acknowledged?

All this stuff gives a sense of control but then it’s destructive and ruining relationships and at some point blaming the world no longer has the same effect and you begin to wonder why these destructive things are happening. Why am I on a break? Why may I lose my girlfriend? Can Jung see and accept that is him and not the world that is causing most of his own pain and maybe lose the things he desires (a relationship with Seol) He still harbors those feelings of being wronged, the resentment and bitterness of all that transpired. Jung is unconsciously self-sabotaging his own life and relationship with Seol and blaming it on the unfair world which uses and mistreats and abuses him and others. Once Jung realizes, that at the core of it all it’s me not the world (and even if it is the world, screw the world. My happiness and you don’t bother me no more will be the biggest form of revenge), he can really start the meeting half way. Which I feel slowly but surely he is doing and will continue to do.

 

It maybe or may not be victim mentality. If it’s victim mentality it’s leaned and can be unlearned but some of it may be personality traits (simply who he is) it can’t be unlearned and you just learn to cope and live with it. Also none of this means Jung is unable to feel humanistic traits or exhibit them neither.

Take this with a grain of salt because I maybe remembering some events in the webtoon wrong. There is still a lot in the webtoon of Jung that we need to see that we have yet to see and my mind is foggy and I’m mixing webtoon and drama. And real psychology identification you need to do richard simmons ton more. Also let me be clear that I am not putting it all on Jung’s dad. But Jung’s upbringing and all that he experienced may be the root of it and whatever he feels for his dad now and things that happened are also at root. Even when you become an adult sometimes it’s not easy to “you’re an adult you can’t blame mom and dad forever” because sometimes mom and dad really richard simmons you up and you need to recognize that and overcome those feelings of hurt and resentment (especially when you are seeing them almost every day) and start building towards the life and relationship you want.

AKA Jung just needs to go off on his dad. Let all them feeling known and unknown aware and unaware out on his dad and boy will be able to breathe and work towards unlearning a lot of this richard simmons. Nah, just go off kid and let them repressed feelings out.

Credit for thinking on some aspect of victim mentality and if it applies to Jung goes here: http://www.insead.edu/facultyresearch/research/doc.cfm?did=50114 

[MrsSoJiSub]

31 minutes ago, honeywell said:

Ok explain this for me.  I've watched episode 1 probably 5 times now and the timeline is still a little iffy for me.  Did Sol end up taking that year off when she got drunk?  Or did Jung stop her because of that scholarship?   For some reason I thought Sol took off from school twice.  Also, did Jung start liking Sol somewhere in between when they first met and when Jung got sick at the restaurant? 

Seol did not end up taking the year off when she got drunk. She got the scholarship and no longer needed to take the year off. Other than the year off that was mentioned but never shown (the one we meet her coming back from when she and Jung who has also comeback from his time off, grey shirts flashback). Jung felt an attraction to Seol or he kept noticing her and was bothered by her in year one. He started to like her in the flashback pub end of the year student planning party where he got sick. That flashback took place sometime in year one when Seol and Jung still were all "grr I loath thee" it happened after the first meeting where she throws up the disgusting wrap San Chul made her but before the scholarship incident.

In this drama the episodes are not days. Some times we are shown whole months or even years in the span of one episode or two. Episode one we were shown a whole year of year one torture flashback in the span of a few minutes. Then we come back to present time, which is when Seol and Bora meet at Seol's coffee work place to talk about her getting drunk and wanting to take another year off. She does not do this because they get the call that Seol had gotten the scholarship.

Episode 2 or 3 I believe a whole semester goes by. I remember they had just registered for class and by the end of episode 3 (which ever one Jung follows Seol with she was wearing the white skirt and the beautiful song everyone wants was playing) they are giving their final semester project presentations to witch Kang. This means Jung had been trying to get close to Seol asking for dinner, lunch (which she never eat, when do you eat LOL) for weeks if not maybe even a moth.

The initial beginning dating happens during break which does anyone know how long college/university semester breaks are in Korea? Then they comeback to school announce they are dating and thus far they have been dating for 2 and a half moths (and now longer) per what Jung told Seol's mom when asked when he came to meet and eat.

So I've always assumed that time passed is much longer than we are aware of. So while we see and think Seol and Jung started liking each other very quickly and dating quickly in actual show time it took some weeks or even a month to get there (?). I judge time line by Witches Kang's class projects. So as of ep 10 I think we in a moth or 2 of the new school semester. Jung and Seol have been dating maybe 3 months now (?).

[40somethingahjumma]

How do you solve a problem like Min Soo?

Very early on, I'd say. Once matters escalated to the point in which they did, there was no turning back the clock. If someone had kindly and honestly pulled her aside on the first day and asked some pointed questions, a lot of the ensuing angst could have been avoided.

I think we can feel pity for people... for where they're at in life... for their circumstances. But the danger is to let pity cloud our judgement about what the best thing for them is at the time. I've taught students who have gone through things most of us can't even begin to conceive of. Their physical and mental state have been shot to pieces. They're living in a foreign country and on top of that, they are responsible for large numbers of people in their lives. If there are people who can legitimately make excuses for themselves, it's them. But most of them don't because they are grateful just to be alive. Despite that, when things get too much for them, it's my responsibility as a teacher to tell them to stop and prioritize and take care of other things before they resume any kind of study.

What Sang Chul and MS have gone through, are to my mind, first world problems. Self-esteem, struggling to keep up with university commitments etc. Sang Chul wants to take short cuts when he has unrealistic expectations of his own ability. Yes, he's got a mum waiting for him but lying to her about where he's really at is setting her up for grave disappointment in future. He's obviously not cut out for academic or corporate life but because conventionally that is the pathway to a "better paying" job he is determined to stay the course except that he is doing that by riding on the backs of his classmates. I guess we can pity SC that he doesn't fit into the system but letting him slack off and get away with it,  how does it help him in the long run?

MS existed on the fringe of university. But many people do and they don't all start White, Single Femaling others.  Universities offer clubs and societies where people can make friends with like-minded people. Who hasn't felt lonely at university? It's a large and often overwhelming environment but there are things people can do to make things less unbearable for themselves. 

Pity is good and it means we're human. But pity should never become poison that feeds a habit. As Seol says, everybody has issues in their lives, talent and smarts are not equally distributed in the population. So do we moan and envy others, or do we get off our backsides and do what it takes?

[qwenli]

6 hours ago, carolinedl said:

She lied? Are we sure about that? She had seen YJ by the computer and she was right, YJ did look at the computer. It was after that the other came and changed her schedule. She did try to give back the dool at first, but Seol ran off everytime. I am being too understanding of MinSoo? I probably am but i can't help see how desperate she was adn that despite trying, the doors were shut in her face. That's no excuse for what she did after, but a lot came from YG. Would MS have gone that far without his suggestions? I think she could have crumbled down sooner if it was not for him.

Now would have Jung tried to approach Seol if it was not for what she did when he was sick?... I think she did the foirst step, unaware that she was.

 

I am sorry but with regards to the doll issue, I think there is no excuse for Minsoo part, when she saw someone drop something, she should have returned it immediately. Isnt it just normal to run after the person infront who may have drop a wallet or pen, tap their shoulder and then return the thing to them? I mean when I am in the queue or just walking on the streets, when I see the person in front drop something, I will tap their shoulder and get their attention to return the stuff to them.

Even if Seol was a sprint runner and minsoo couldnt catch up, she should have text her on the phone to tell her, hey I pick up your doll, dont worry, the thing is safe with me, let me pass it to you the next time we meet. And then if Minsoo would have done this, it would have been the start to a nice friendship.

But MS didnt, she kept the doll like a fan keeping a part of an idol, then over time, she hang it on her bag like its hers! And then when Seol asked, MS claimed she bought it! That is a very blatant lie isnt it? At this point, Minsoo became a thief.

As for the influence of YG, a) many people would have known that YG is wierd, so its really not wise to take his advice but fine some people in class still see him as normal, which leads to b ) if someone comes up and give strange suggestions, a rational person will consider them carefully and not listen to everything. It was very clear to me that YG is leading MS to be confrontational to Seol. but this is not what Minsoo wants really, all she wants are friends and be noticed! MS never consider the consequences of her action.

So I dont buy that, it was YG who make her do things, MS is a college student, she should enough IQ to think for herself.

--------------------------

As for Jung, I think many posts has responded to this. Its fine, I realised there are people who will never undertand him and think the worst of him. I just want to say, he never did anything out of malice. Sometimes, he gives a suggestion (like the receipt), sometimes he strike a deal (TA Seo), for Nam Joo Yeon, this girl is becoming too dangerous for Seol ; sometimes he just want to verify something (asking Joon to come to school).

A bad guy does things for his own gains, so far, I dont see him doing things because of that. In fact, he suffers greatly for being misunderstood by Inho and Seol.

Perhaps guys like EunTaek who just follow the girl he likes around or Inho who uses his fist and flying kicks to solve problems, are more straighforward kind of guys for you. 

[lclarakl]

9 hours ago, namyo said:

Darn I'm definitely watching the 10 episodes again apparently I missed something in episode 7. Maybe there was a discussion here about it but since the thread is fast I probably missed it.

But someone in tumblr mentioned this. After that awkward/cute kiss on the cheek. When Seol and her brother were waiting for the rain to stop and In Ho saw them and walked them. In Ho saw Jung with his umbrella and even waved at him. Darn I missed that part.

And here he's waving to Jung

Not cool In Ho, not cool.

I actually went to see that scene and indeed he was waving. And he saw Jung standing there.

source

 

@namyo, after your post, I had to rematch this episode. Unfortunately, just as it was with episode 10, I found several things I didn't like about it--things that are hitting me hard the second time around.  In Ho has done several things that I don't like especially since Seol is another man's girlfriend.  I also didn't like a lot of things that Seol did in this episode. Sorry, but I didn't like how when they were all eating on Seol's moving day, In Ho was getting on to her about the crazy stalker and In Ho was telling Jung that he wasn't taking care of his girlfriend that other men have to do it for him. Seol was trying to send In Ho a silent message to keep it quite and not tell Jung, her boyfriend.  I can only imagine how Jung feels knowing that his girlfriend is not sharing important information with him and he has to hear about it from his rival; as if Seol and In Ho are sharing secrets.  Also the way that Seol always looks uncomfortable at Jung while in the presences of In Ho speaks volumes.

Later Joon, Jung and In Ho (have no idea why he's tagging along) walk Seol home. She then tell all 3 guys that they have to wait as she tidy up. Maybe I'm picky, but I didn't like the way she lumped Jung in the mix with In Ho. After she leaves, Jung decides that he's going to follow her because she is his girlfriend and he tells Joon to stay.  He finds Seol being attacked by underwear stalker.  Naturally after being told by In Ho that he doesn't take care of his girlfriend, Jung beats up the underwear stalker who I felt deserved it.  When Jung came back to Seol she recoils from him.  She remembers what In Ho said bout Jung hurting his hand and rejects Jung when he tired to help her, but she accepts In Ho's touch in front of Jung.  What a low blow from Seol. I was just happy the writer didn't show her letting In Ho into her hospital room while Jung was waiting outside not being allowed entrance.  I was even more happy when Seol was giggling like a little girl in her bed wondering if she would marry Jung. Although she tries to keep a distance from him in public, this showed that she really liked him.

Then we have Seol remembering confronting Jung while he was with the lazy senior a year ago in a flashback scene.  She told Jung, "Thanks to you, he's been bothering me for a while and I've had to suffer."  Interestingly, Lazy senior said, "......And he was saying you're the only one in class who actually cares about him. We were just agreeing with him to be polite."  Jung said, "Whatever the case. I'm sorry. I really didn't mean it that way." Then Seol wants them to clarify that it's all crazy stalker fault (IMO of course it's all his fault!!!).  So I was confused when Seol becomes extremely upset with Jung this time around after hearing about the text message; I guess it had to do with the extra stuff that In Ha had texted.

Later after Jung drives Seol home to her parents, he gives her one of those beautiful hugs and tries to kiss her, but she pulls aways from him. He in turn pulls away from her. She then realizes she shouldn't send him off like this. She grabs his face and after much prolonging squeezing of his face, she kisses him on the cheek and jumps out of the car.  Here is where I had a problem with Seol. She then runs into her brother and they see In Ho looking at cords.  It's the look she gives In Ho that gave me pause.  However, she and her brother gets under the umbrella with In Ho, he wraps his arm around both Seol and Joon's neck and they head home---Jung is looking on. Again, I can only imagine how he feels when the woman you like pull away from his touch, which she did many times in this episode, and easily let In Ho hug her---she and In Ho are not that close and she has a boyfriend.  As the threesome walks away, In Ho waves his hands which Jung sees.  You don't really see In Ho's intent until Jung while lying in bed is thinking back to that moment--then it becomes clear that's what In Ho was doing.

We then find out that Seol has taken a lot of interest in In Ho and she later goes to her uncle's storage to bring the cord for the piano and books for In Ho to practice piano.  

Then we have a scene when In Ho and Joon come to Seol's college. He brother sent her a text saying she and In Ho wanted to eat lunch with her. She panics. Runs out the room and drop her little lion. She finds out In Ho is at the music department and heads that way during her 10 minute break.  In Ho is running from the professor. The professor gives Seol his card to give to In Ho. It's at this point Seol realizes she has lost her lion.  Later Jung is helping her look for it. She empty her purse and Jung sees the professor of music business card. He tells Seol he'll give it to In Ho. Seol says she can just give it to him Jung tells her that he doesn't like it. Seol thinks it's no big deal. She doesn't realize that Jung saw her walking with In Ho under the umbrella or the wave to Jung from In Ho. Instead of letting Jung handles it, she tells him they should go together; that she doesn't like it when he fights with In Ho. 

When Jung and Seol arrive at the storage where In Ho is, Jung asks if he wants to play piano.  In Ho looks like Seol has betrayed him and she looks like she has too. 

All I have to say is Seol pay a lot of attention to her friend and not enough to her boyfriend.  I really want Jung to dump her so that she can appreciate him more.  She only see Jung as the issue, not others as the problem. 

[honeywell]

@MrsSoJiSub Thank you.  I was getting confuse with all of the time jumps.   Wow Sol and Jung are only 3 months?  They seem like they've been dating more than that.  I'm glad Jung reaches out to Sol first or at least tries to.  It seems like fate was trying to intervene and set up Sol seeing Jung at that exact moment he was going to her.

[MrsSoJiSub]

I must be cold blooded because to me everyone is somebody's child's even Younggon, that don't mean I'm going to fall for phone calls in a flimsily room. Seol was living in a small room too eating cup ramen and working her richard simmons off with like 10 jobs just to stay in school. She needed that class so bad. She worked her whole life and work schedule around that one class so she could keep her scholarship. Then that little richard simmons steals the class and day in day out walks around like he Seol friend not feeling guilt or nothing to at least confess. THEN when confronted by Yoo Jung whom we say has no empathy he basically said 'shouldn't you be saying this to Seol?' aka confess and all but his richard simmons had the gall not only to play the victim, but to be mad because his plan fell through and someone else got the class before he could...PUTA MADRE!! *hold mg earrings* How!?!?!? Then the class project with Seol you would think he would he put in some effort to not only make up to her for dropping the class in his own way but he's out bar hopping and not even trying. His richard simmons know he got to graduate to support that mom y'all cried for and HE IN A BAR GIVING NO richard simmons AND GETTING DRUNK!!! Then, then Seol does all the work keep their lazy asses names on (girl is too nice. I CAN'T! But sadly I have before LOL) and in all that time they was sitting there watching other groups present they couldn't remember some lines AND THEN IN THE END HE GET MAD AND LOUD BLAMING BABY SEOL AND GETTING THE CLASS IN IT!! *says a string of curses in her native tongue of Twi so she real mad* ARE YOU richard simmons KIDDING ME!!' YOU ARE FOR REAL LITTLE BOY!!! THEN HE DO IT AGAIN HE richard simmons DO IT AGAIN!!!!!!!! AGAIN! THEN HE GONNA richard simmons LATER TALK ABOUT YOO JUNG's WHO ACTUALLY WORK HARD TO GET INTERNSHIPS AND ISH *almost can't breathe how unbelievable it all is* richard simmons him and richard simmons his mom for good measure for raising such a son (okay I went too far) GET EM JUNG I'LL HAPPILY JOIN YOU! Jung should have killed his richard simmons instead of calming down in the latest chapter of the webtoon! Okay not really but richard simmons him for real. I'm somebody's precious daughter too! Seol is somebody's precious daughter too! What does having a mom got to do with things. As my precious cinnamon roll said "We all have our issues. We all have our problems" 

ETA: Though it may not look like it. I swear I got empathy for others LOL. Just not leeching bullshitters. That dude always got 99 problems and evidently doing what he needs to do so he can graduate find a job (I pity the fool that hires him and unlucky that must work with him) and support phone mom and family ain't one of them!

[lclarakl]

I was going to start episode 8 and 4 minutes in decided I needed to take a break after re-watching episode 7.  In the beginning of 8, I didn't like the way Seol called Jung out in front of In Ho.  It was like she was getting on to Jung for the way he was treating In Ho. He offered to send In Ho overseas to study. Seol didn't like the sound of that, but isn't that what most wealthy family strive to do with their children, send them overseas to study.  At least Jung made it known after they left In Ho that he didn't like her taking sides and he didn't like her being around In Ho----how many times has he told her this now?  Seems like a thousand times, but in reality it's at least 5 times and she continues to ignore him and hang out with In Ho and tells him she will tutor him.

Yeah, I'll go back to episode 1 for now. The more of these episodes I watch now that I see Jung in a different light, it makes me wish he would tell some people off and stop being kind, yes kind.   In watching the back flash scene of In Ho and In Ha, it dawned on me that In Ho was the cause of his sister giving up her dream of art and he didn't care how it impacted her. Only when he gave up his dream of playing music and many years later did he appreciate what it means to give up on your dream. 

[geezayu]

13 hours ago, MrsSoJiSub said:

Honest to goodness question and I want some honest to goodness unbiased opinions and responses. Should Seol dump Jung and go be with Inho because she is obviously secretly in like with him and she just doesn't know/is not aware of it yet?

I feel like the above is what people are waiting for. That is what all of it boils down to and I want to know why? If you really think this is going to happen. Please tell me why and with examples of scenes etc that support this so I can jump off now and save myself R88 levels of pain. Because I'm not seeing it but I have learned from the last time, that maybe it's there and I'm just choosing not to see it!

I had almost gotten over my trust issues and ya'll are bringing it back 10 fold LOL. Am I watching it all wrong again? Am I reading Seol's clear feelings for Jung wrong again? Aww ashi another Jung...another 2 weeks ...is it a sign...I SHIP NOTHING!! I SHIP ME AND MY SANITY AGAIN!! ! Even when I got it, I don't got it....

*reminds self it is just a tv show. it's just a tv show. it's just a tv show. I need a time out LOL*

 

 @MrsSoJiSub I know how you feel and I also have the same worries. I don't know whether I'm answering your question or just making it worse. Sometimes I do wonder if the writer actually plans to have In Ho and Seol as the end game with all the cute adorable scenes that they have with each other and like @debolina  pointed out the scene of them playing paper planes happily together somewhat scares me. Is that a foreshadow that In Ho is the perfect guy for Seol all along and Jung is actually one of the chess piece to move them to towards each other. I asked myself what's the point of having a relationship growth of Jung and Seol from the awkward dates to the comfortable sleeping together on the same bed if they are not the end game. Should Jung dump Seol so that she can really be happy with In Ho or the other way around. I don't know the answer. In the end it's all down to the writer and Seol herself. But to keep in mind, we have 6 more episodes to go and anything can happen. If the writer decided to have Seol waiver or suddenly she is hit by the knowledge that In Ho is actually the perfect person for her and her heart beats for him then that's nothing we can do. I have learnt my lesson in reply 1988 to prepare my heart for any unexpected ending even though up to ep 10, Seol only have Jung in her mind. The girl was giggling and jumping with joy whenever she's going to see her Jung. However their relationship it's not like a walk in the park, they have a few arguments and Seol even has trust issue with Jung. Can they work on the problem or it's just going to appear in the latter part of the episodes as a force to drift them apart.  It's not like I am worried what Jung will do to Seol if Seol dumps him but what he will he do to himself. He might shut himself to the world and believe that sincerity doesn't exist in the this world and everyone wants something from him. How sad is that. Some said that Jung has daddy issue and he doesn't really need Seol. All he need is to work on his daddy issue and he will be fine. Solving his issue with his father is a bonus but losing Seol is not a good option either. Seol teaches him that other than his own family, there are other people who are being sincere to be with him. Truthfully other than Jung and Seol relationship, I'm also invested in the bromance. I'm enjoying their interaction. Having Seol dumping Jung for In Ho will forever destroy any attempt for them to reconcile. That's a waste of bromance. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Did the actor playing In Ho say that he had finished filming a kissing scene? Or it's just my own imagination  That's what get me all work up. What if Jung sees it by chance or Seol discovers her feeling after the kiss? Otokke? 

Nevertheless, in the end I do blame the director for not giving us enough doses of happy smiling Jung to hold onto.

    

[NRGchick]

2 hours ago, Lissabonni said:

 

Somehow, I have this crazy idea that the first scene of the drama, where Seol is drunk and babbling that she's going to take off college time again because of YJ, is the party that they were advertising when YJ was sick and Seol took care of him and he changed his opinion of Seol.

I don't know if this makes sense but that party took place in the day after and when Seol fell, YJ seemed really concerned about her, thing that wouldn't be possible if it was during the period that he disliked her... 

The party theme also appeared to be the end of semester and right after the flashback, Seol found out that she gain the scholarship and began a new semester.

Edit: So Seol does the 1st year but stops due financial issues. When she returns to college to her second year, she meets YJ Sumbae. At the end of the 2year she wants to stop again because of him but she wins the scholarship and began her 3rd year. YJ is her Sumbae because he's in his fourth year. Does this make any sense?

It is also confuse in the beginning of the webtoon, with so many flashbacks...

 Good point! Now is there some nice chingu who can do a definite timeline? The time he bought the drink for Seol and gave to her in front of JY was BEFORE he likedf her? Definitely stepping on the papers would be when he disliked her. When he started asking her for lunch was when he already liked her? I am confusing myself...LOL

@geezayu Seeing your signature , I can understand why you have doubts. I was traumatised too! But that drama was not based off any existing piece of work so it was up to the PD and writer what they wished. This webtoon already had a strong following so I think there will be riot if it ended out of the blue.

[zia28]

21 hours ago, MrsSoJiSub said:

Hey my fellow JHxDS shipper  If you always like the ship that are more JHxDS then I would say that Inho and Seol may be more your cup of tea, because they have that bickering element that JHxDS had. I am not trying to be rude and I would give you a lengthy response as to why I don't think Jung is a snob and why I find Jung and Seol perfect puzzle pieces for one another, but my fingers hurt LOL. If you read back two or three pages and look for me (and many others) I wrote some posts on how I view Jung and how I see him in the drama. Also wrote a post on Jung and Seol and what both saw in one another and why both like one another and are dating. However if you have watched the show (especially ep 6 and the whole bedroom scene and flashback) and you still aren't seeing it or feeling them, you just might never will and they really just aren't for you, which is perfectly fine and wonderful. Different strokes for different folks ya know.

Anyhow welcome to the thread. I like discussing things so it would be a treat for me, if you could give some examples of when you found Jung to be judgmental, snobby, and morally superior towards others. I personally find that Jung does exactly what other students in the university do. He's just much better at it and comes out the winner so people (within the show and without) stay mad and pressed about it. Unless I'm missing something Jung has been cunning and manipulative with two people, San Chul, TA Heo, and Minsoo and is working on Younggon. All those people to me, are little shits who had it coming and brought it onto themselves.

San Chul harasses glasses dude (who didn't have to post that receipt online. Jung simply gave him the receipt. Boy could have simply went and talked with San Chul one on one. To publicly embarrass San Chul and get him in trouble was his choice and retribution for the many times San Chul had done the same to him. Just because the devil gives you a gun doesn't mean you have to go buy bullets and shoot.) he stole Seol's class without remorse or thought to how that would affect Seol and her prospects to stay in school. Then when busted he has the nerve to blame the victim, show no remorse (Jung even asks "shouldn't you be saying this to Seol) and gets mad because even after dropping the class someone else got to it before he could.

TA Heo was a goddamn thief who stole from a department student at a department party. His reputation was shot the moment he did that and not when Jung had him "lose" the paper. If Jung had backed out on his end of the you scratch my back I scratch yours agreement. He would be out a job and with a criminal record right now. However he conveniently forgets that when he intentionally with the hopes of ruining Jung's relationship, blabs to Seol. He can cry a river while I play the world's tiniest violin for him.

Minsoo was a Single Korean Female, 'Misery' upon Seol just waiting to happen. She made matters public when she very publically and vocally denounced Seol in front of her classmates, and portrayed herself as the victim that Seol keeps harassing and accusing, and lying and bother and being paranoid over some clothes and a doll that she lied was hers. Minsoo had publically turned Seol into the fool and herself into the one having wrong done onto her. She was mentally exhausting Seol (that dream anyone) then she had the gull to crush that lion that Jung got Seol and it means something a lot to Seol (first couple gift) and looks like Seol (even Minsoo mentioned that) right infront of Seol's face. What next? Coming to school and pouring acid on Seol so she can't look at or attract Joon, Minsoo's "boyfriend" cause yes I believe girl had deluded herself that far. She needed to be stopped in a public manner so that it would leave no doubt and questioning in the public's mind of Seol's innocence and victim hood in the whole situation, which people already were. On the Minsoo thing I felt a bit bad for her because she was a sad low self-esteem girl who needed help and was being manipulated by Younggon. However she was an adult and Seol had tried before to settle things quietly between them (when she and Bora first confronted Minsoo, Seol had wanted to go somewhere away from prying eyes to talk in private. It was Minsoo that choose to keep public and turn it loud. Also Seol before had asked Minsoo if she had simply picked up the lion or something. That was an opportunity for Minsoo to tell the truth and it wouldn't have even been a big deal but she chose to lie). She too is no victim on herself. So yeah I feel for ya, but really not *Kayne shrug*

Younggon. Younggon should have been in jail year one when he was harassing/stalking Bora and other women of the campus. If people honestly think it was text messages on Jung and Inha's parts or a nice gesture on Seol's that has him obessed and stalking her; there is a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell ya'll. Younggon is in need of so much psychological help and his mind is just, unhinged in such a dangerous manner. He has an ego that is about self gratification and does not understand the meaning of the word no. If it were not Seol he was stalking it would be some other girl from campus. Heck didn't idiotic Da Hyoung start dating him after he started harassing her? I am not saying Jung didn't play a role and is faultless in his, hell nah. He played a part and he got some thinking and explaining to do on that. He's also paying for his part right now cause he may lose something that for the first time he really wants, because of his actions.

All these people and more are being manipulative and cunning just like Jung however none do it with such intellect and fineness as Jung. All of them users and not very good or nice people. However because most in the audience think of them as dumb and harmless (no, they're really not) they excuse them or let them get away with their crimes (and crimes they are) however come down on Jung for his (and I know the guy is problematic and needs growth and I believe it's been happening in the show) simply because he's smart enough not to get his hands dirty and still win. Nah, as the saying goes "don't hate the player, hate the game" LOL. Jung is just as shitty if not in some ways less shitty, as/than everyone else in the looney tunes university (sans Euntaek and Bora). Maybe I'm cold, but if you can't stand the heat don't get in the kitchen. No body forced these adults to do the things they got caught doing and then make a deal with the "devil" to try and get out of it. Every action has a consequence and they paid for it as Jung is paying for his now (Seol is rightfully pissed and may leave him, his biggest fear). Again I'm cold but, they shouldn't have got caught *Kayne shrug again*

*and I said I would keep it short, LOL. I really can't help myself it seems.

I love how you describe jung action with crazy people in their unni..

[jeaniegurl]

Maybe its just me but I see In ho and Seol ending up together romantically as impossible. We've already seen what kind of person Seol is, that is she wouldn't date Jung's ex best friend.I think it goes against her character, she's just a really nice person. In Ho obviously still cares for Jung otherwise he wouldn't have gone to the University to see him in the first couple episodes. They would not do that to Jung (I sincerely hope so).

[cloe_1409]

.i still believe jungseol is the endgamei didnt read the webtoon though but i saw how jungseol relationships is growing by the episode.,  i still remembered how awkward they were in their first date,,and now look at them they're hugging like theres no tomorrow,..and actually i still amazed how the couple who barely touched each other at first is ended up sleeping and kissing in the bed together

 

 

 

 

[luvcrabbieshinhwa]

7 hours ago, honeywell said:

Ok explain this for me.  I've watched episode 1 probably 5 times now and the timeline is still a little iffy for me.  Did Sol end up taking that year off when she got drunk?  Or did Jung stop her because of that scholarship?   For some reason I thought Sol took off from school twice.  Also, did Jung start liking Sol somewhere in between when they first met and when Jung got sick at the restaurant? 

 

7 hours ago, Lissabonni said:

 

Somehow, I have this crazy idea that the first scene of the drama, where Seol is drunk and babbling that she's going to take off college time again because of YJ, is the party that they were advertising when YJ was sick and Seol took care of him and he changed his opinion of Seol.

I don't know if this makes sense but that party took place in the day after and when Seol fell, YJ seemed really concerned about her, thing that wouldn't be possible if it was during the period that he disliked her... 

The party theme also appeared to be the end of semester and right after the flashback, Seol found out that she gain the scholarship and began a new semester.

Edit: So Seol does the 1st year but stops due financial issues. When she returns to college to her second year, she meets YJ Sumbae. At the end of the 2year she wants to stop again because of him but she wins the scholarship and began her 3rd year. YJ is her Sumbae because he's in his fourth year. Does this make any sense?

It is also confuse in the beginning of the webtoon, with so many flashbacks...

 

6 hours ago, MrsSoJiSub said:

Seol did not end up taking the year off when she got drunk. She got the scholarship and no longer needed to take the year off. Other than the year off that was mentioned but never shown (the one we meet her coming back from when she and Jung who has also comeback from his time off, grey shirts flashback). Jung felt an attraction to Seol or he kept noticing her and was bothered by her in year one. He started to like her in the flashback pub end of the year student planning party where he got sick. That flashback took place sometime in year one when Seol and Jung still were all "grr I loath thee" it happened after the first meeting where she throws up the disgusting wrap San Chul made her but before the scholarship incident.

In this drama the episodes are not days. Some times we are shown whole months or even years in the span of one episode or two. Episode one we were shown a whole year of year one torture flashback in the span of a few minutes. Then we come back to present time, which is when Seol and Bora meet at Seol's coffee work place to talk about her getting drunk and wanting to take another year off. She does not do this because they get the call that Seol had gotten the scholarship.

Episode 2 or 3 I believe a whole semester goes by. I remember they had just registered for class and by the end of episode 3 (which ever one Jung follows Seol with she was wearing the white skirt and the beautiful song everyone wants was playing) they are giving their final semester project presentations to witch Kang. This means Jung had been trying to get close to Seol asking for dinner, lunch (which she never eat, when do you eat LOL) for weeks if not maybe even a moth.

The initial beginning dating happens during break which does anyone know how long college/university semester breaks are in Korea? Then they comeback to school announce they are dating and thus far they have been dating for 2 and a half moths (and now longer) per what Jung told Seol's mom when asked when he came to meet and eat.

So I've always assumed that time passed is much longer than we are aware of. So while we see and think Seol and Jung started liking each other very quickly and dating quickly in actual show time it took some weeks or even a month to get there (?). I judge time line by Witches Kang's class projects. So as of ep 10 I think we in a moth or 2 of the new school semester. Jung and Seol have been dating maybe 3 months now (?).

 

Sorry to make multiple quotes.

The flashbacks in the webtoon confused me at first..but it's become clearer at the end (white background = present, black = past, gray = recent past).

In the webtoon, I try to understand the timeline based on their clothes lol. Semester starts on FALL and SPRING. So, the timeline is like this (I stand corrected as I might get it wrong too):

1. Seol drunk in the beginning of ep 1 = present. Then flashback a year ago, showed the beginning of the year party where Seol just went back from her off (she took a year off to earn money for her tuition #DamnYouSeolFather). That's where  she perceived Jung was malicious towards her and she wanted to take another semester off.

Flashback ended when Bora meets her in the cafe. She got the scholarship. No need to take semester off, @honeywell. @Lissabonni The party theme (in the webtoon, it's kind of School Festival, usually held in the middle-end of a term) when sick Jung happened presumably started before the party at the beginning of ep 1 (where seol drunk). But since Jung has not really started being nice to her, Seol thought he still dislikes her and planned to take another semester off.

2. New semester (Spring) started where they registered for classes. Where Jung started being nice and asked her to eat eat eat XD

3. As pointed by @MrsSoJiSub the timeline in the drama doesn't count 'days'. She got D at the end of the semester. It means Jung has been trying to hit on her for the whole semester lmao. He asked her out at the end of the term, just before semester break (summer holiday!).

4. English course,dates, etc happens during their summer break. Summer break usually lasts for 2 months ++ . That's why they said they've been dating for 2.5 months when Jung met her parents.

5. Currently we're on the FALL semester after the summer break. More precisely, they are having their mid-term now.

[syntaxerror]

I'm sure jungseol is the endgame but that doesn't stop the SLS.

[limericks]

1 hour ago, qwenli said:

I am sorry but with regards to the doll issue, I think there is no excuse for Minsoo part, when she saw someone drop something, she should have returned it immediately. Isnt it just normal to run after the person infront who may have drop a wallet or pen, tap their shoulder and then return the thing to them? I mean when I am in the queue or just walking on the streets, when I see the person in front drop something, I will tap their shoulder and get their attention to return the stuff to them.

Even if Seol was a sprint runner and minsoo couldnt catch up, she should have text her on the phone to tell her, hey I pick up your doll, dont worry, the thing is safe with me, let me pass it to you the next time we meet. And then if Minsoo would have done this, it would have been the start to a nice friendship.

But MS didnt, she kept the doll like a fan keeping a part of an idol, then over time, she hang it on her bag like its hers! And then when Seol asked, MS claimed she bought it! That is a very blatant lie isnt it? At this point, Minsoo became a thief.

As for the influence of YG, a) many people would have known that YG is wierd, so its really not wise to take his advice but fine some people in class still see him as normal, which leads to b ) if someone comes up and give strange suggestions, a rational person will consider them carefully and not listen to everything. It was very clear to me that YG is leading MS to be confrontational to Seol. but this is not what Minsoo wants really, all she wants are friends and be noticed! MS never consider the consequences of her action.

So I dont buy that, it was YG who make her do things, MS is a college student, she should enough IQ to think for herself.

--------------------------

As for Jung, I think many posts has responded to this. Its fine, I realised there are people who will never undertand him and think the worst of him. I just want to say, he never did anything out of malice. Sometimes, he gives a suggestion (like the receipt), sometimes he strike a deal (TA Seo), for Nam Joo Yeon, this girl is becoming too dangerous for Seol ; sometimes he just want to verify something (asking Joon to come to school).

A bad guy does things for his own gains, so far, I dont see him doing things because of that. In fact, he suffers greatly for being misunderstood by Inho and Seol.

Perhaps guys like EunTaek who just follow the girl he likes around or Inho who uses his fist and flying kicks to solve problems, are more straighforward kind of guys for you. 

Remember Seol left the class during a 10 minute break, so Min soo could've given the doll to Jung or Bora while Seol was out or given it to her when she came back or at the end of class and then do her meal proposal. There really was no excuse.

[Ahpheng]

 

 

[40somethingahjumma]

2 hours ago, qwenli said:

As for Jung, I think many posts has responded to this. Its fine, I realised there are people who will never undertand him and think the worst of him. I just want to say, he never did anything out of malice. Sometimes, he gives a suggestion (like the receipt), sometimes he strike a deal (TA Seo), for Nam Joo Yeon, this girl is becoming too dangerous for Seol ; sometimes he just want to verify something (asking Joon to come to school).

It's true, he may be stern but not malicious. And he always gives people a chance to clean up their mess. Some people may call it moral snobbery but I think it's his way of respecting the individual's choice to come clean and do the right thing on their own bat. MS had ample opportunities to apologize and make amends at different stages but she allowed matters to spiral out of control. (Admittedly some of her so-called friends like DY and OYG fed the beast too)

And yes, @lclarakl, he is a much better person than he has been given credit for being. Personally I think it's great that more and people are discovering what some of us have known from the beginning.  I would go so far as to say for an anti-hero, he's much more heroic than many K drama leads in other dramas that I've seen.

_________________________________________________

Can I say that it's fantastic that we have so many perspectives on how the story is unfolding? It is a testimony to the skill of the writer of the original source and those who are adapting it that a show like this can generate so much discussion. They are good discussions and I'm sure that I'm not just speaking for myself when I say that it's all been very stimulating. It's a drama that really causes one to think about morality, ethics and challenges a lot of our assumptions.

It's true we can't be 100% sure if Jung and Seol are the endgame. For a while I have been rather nervous about that but surprisingly, the last two episodes (and maybe the preview too) have convinced me to a large degree that we're very unlikely to get Seol and In-ho despite all the cute and cuddly scenes between the two. While the segments of the audience may have fallen for In-ho, Seol hasn't. It seemed to me no matter how charming, how understanding and how sweet In-ho was in that last half hour, Seol was oblivious to his charms. Her interactions with him are motivated generally by pity and even a sisterly concern. All I see is Seol trying to take care of In-ho like Seol is trying to take care of Jun. He maybe older than her but she's the one who's more mature. 

Her dynamic with Jung is quite different. My opinion is that they have a much more equal relationship. This is where I agree with a lot of the Seol critics about how problematic that relationship plays out but not necessarily the rationale. Seol is very inexperienced where it comes to men. She doesn't know what the "right" thing to do is. She's gradually discovering that there is no one "right" way to have a relationship -- this is where I have a lot of problems with people who say that In-ho is better for her --  She can, however, find the right way with the man she's already with as long as he is willing to do the same. 

She has a comfortable relationship with In-ho, it's only because their relationship is simple and uncomplicated by romance. Who's to say that a relationship with In-ho will not bring its own set of problems? Just because the show doesn't explore that possibility it doesn't mean that it cannot be played out in reality. His hot headedness is a huge problem for me, so is his sister. I think Seol has enough issues with her own family without having to carry In-ho and sister as well.

The problem is that Seol's perspective is static and she does tend to overreact to situations which means audiences who can't see that their point of view is being manipulated tend to roll with what they see through her. From her perspective she thinks she's the one doing all the moving and he's not. But if we view things objectively, we can see he has done quite a lot to accommodate her wishes and bent over backwards to not rush things with her. He has always respected her boundaries which is more than you can say for many, many K drama male leads.

Their relationship isn't a flirtatious one like Oh My Venus. There is no banter, winking and knowing veiled discussions about sex. It's a complete different scenario. But it doesn't make it less valid than the romance in Oh My Venus. It's just different.

As we've said previously, relationships are messy and hard. Nobody does it perfectly and this show at the very least gets that right.

Edited: Guys, can you please indulge this teacher here by dividing your long posts into paragraphs? I do love our chats but if you don't paragraph your essays, it's very hard to read. Thank you ahead of time.

[NRGchick]

LOL...we are jaded by our experiences with Korean dramas. I remember during early Korean dramas, there was so much makjang that you could drown in it. Horrible mother/mother in law, evil evil second lead (of either gender) whose main task is to break up the OTP (and some dramas still have that today), an incurable disease (no. 1 was cancer) or.......*drum roll* - long lost siblings (even if you are not blood related)

I purely believe that we are learning about Seol (to me she is the main character) and her interactions with people around her as she goes through life, from her University life (when things got really exciting) and maybe a glimpse of her in the future (Will she get her dream job? Will she still be with YJ sunbae?) Whether she ends up with YJ (Which I sincerely sincerely hope so!) may not be certain. As some have mentioned, she could be no longer in a relationship with him in 5 years or 10 years time. However, he would have had a huge impact in her life, she learned the joys of love, the despair at not being able to understand her boyfriend, her attempts to compromise and it is dawning on her WHY YJ may behave in certain ways [which is why I think the time out worked - she was able to think clearly without YJ clouding her thoughts - she thought about his actions, retrospectively seeing HIS perspective]

The characters which are a thorn in my side would be SC, YG and to an extent Da Young (YG's gf). In the beginning I truly disliked In Ha but seeing her behaviour in the subsequent episodes helped me see her as a child. She seems not to have grown up but is still manipulative. She can read In Ho like a book. [I lol at the part where they went home after the visit to Seol's parents shop and she sussed out that he liked Seol and was teasing him - That kick to the door by In Ho , was that scripted, I wonder].

 

 

 

[namyo]

Does anybody else wants besides the bed, a nice long conversation before the kiss? I loved episode 6 specially towards the end when Jung stayed at Seol's place  I want that. It felt just too natural and intimate while looking at Seol's pictures and questioning how come they ended up liking each other.