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[Thai Drama 2013~2015] Hormones The Series วัยว้าวุ่น


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Guest antakalainaro

- why was Jane in class 1, the class of top scoring students? she just returned from the states ans surely couldn't perform well on tests that was designed accordingly to Thai curriculum. it would be more realistic if she was in art-math program. however, she couldn't be friends with Pang and Oil then.

Wait. Does the class number have anything to do with the intelligence of the students? So it means that Class 1 has all the top students? Ae and Sun in Class 1 is unbelievable.

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I just wonder why Boss chose Non to his team because Non is not like others who seem to be excellent students. Non in the other hand has nothing special,  and not to mention that he likes joking around, it's totally different than Boss is.

The other thing bothers me is that why Boss asked music teacher i/o Math or English one. I dont think music subject could give you too much home work to do hence asking for advice from him was not good idea, imo.

And the last thing, Elle called Jelly Tom but I didnt see any boyish thing from her. Just saying.

there are many flaw details if you're to nitpick.

- why was Jane in class 1, the class of top scoring students? she just returned from the states ans surely couldn't perform well on tests that was designed accordingly to Thai curriculum. it would be more realistic if she was in art-math program. however, she couldn't be friends with Pang and Oil then.

- Why did Mali enroll NDB? she could barely speak Thai, she surely couldn't learn in normal Thai class. it would be more logical that she enroll an international school, unless her parents were limited on finance. (an elite private school would cost 6-80,000 THB yearly (there are 'activity fees') while a internation school would start at 60,000 THB per semester)

- why was Dao and Koi PE class swimming? most high school don't teach swimming.

etc.

Wow! I hope someone can start a good discussion out of this pointers you have provided. I'm not familiar also with the Thai curriculum and how students from a different country attains a certain degree on which he/she can start from. Like for example with Jane. She's been in America for 3 years, right? Then when she came back from US, she's already in second grade..(2 stars) so she already had the first grade in the US?

For Mali's case, I think it will be answered on the following episodes ( I hope so)

Maybe their part of the swimming club? 55555! Or maybe a one time PE activity just for them to use the pool. 5555!

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- why was Jane in class 1, the class of top scoring students? she just returned from the states ans surely couldn't perform well on tests that was designed accordingly to Thai curriculum. it would be more realistic if she was in art-math program. however, she couldn't be friends with Pang and Oil then.

Wait. Does the class number have anything to do with the intelligence of the students? So it means that Class 1 has all the top students? Ae and Sun in Class 1 is unbelievable.

it is in some school. in the introduction clip Pang said she was not very good in studying, it must be luck that she got to be in class 1. that means it is for this school. this topic has been discussed in this thread.

moreover, the school seems to use the "fixed" class system. in some schools, the student changes the class yearly, one may be in class 1 this year and class 3 next year, hence one gets new classmates yearly. in some schools, the student won't change the class, has the same set of classmates throughout 3 years.

Wow! I hope someone can start a good discussion out of this pointers you have provided. I'm not familiar also with the Thai curriculum and how students from a different country attains a certain degree on which he/she can start from. Like for example with Jane. She's been in America for 3 years, right? Then when she came back from US, she's already in second grade..(2 stars) so she already had the first grade in the US?

For Mali's case, I think it will be answered on the following episodes ( I hope so)

Maybe their part of the swimming club? 55555! Or maybe a one time PE activity just for them to use the pool. 5555!

she was in USA for 4 years. in season 2 she said she moved to usa when she was 12 and she was 15 y/o.

Jane finished grade 10 in usa and that is equivalent to year 1 of high school, so she could enroll thai high school from year 2. though, it's very uncommon that a student changes her system of school (from american to thai in this case) midway. it will be difficult for the student to catch up with her friend academically.

you stick to the same genre of sport for the whole semester in thailand.

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I just wonder why Boss chose Non to his team because Non is not like others who seem to be excellent students. 

When Boss and Ter initially approach Non, Non asks, "What could you possibly want me for?" Ter then tells him they are looking for an art director. In other words, Boss wants Non for his skills and abilities, too. It's just that these skills and abilities aren't academic like some of the other students' are. I think this fits what we know of Boss' way of doing things to some extent? :sweatingbullets:

The other thing bothers me is that why Boss asked music teacher i/o Math or English one. I dont think music subject could give you too much home work to do hence asking for advice from him was not good idea, imo.

Hm, if we look at it this way, I think the episode nonetheless gives a possible explanation. When talking with Boss, Teacher Ping says that "last year" he taught music. He may actually be teaching something different now or may even be acting in a different capacity in the school administration (given that he doesn't talk about his lesson plans for "this year," as far as I recall). Maybe that's exactly why Boss went to see Teacher Ping.

Wait. Does the class number have anything to do with the intelligence of the students?

As welp mentioned, this has been discussed earlier. Posts you might find interesting include this post, this post, and this post. :)

his conversation with teacher ping is very interesting scene imo. boss stay calm.. and state his points and reasons, and also carefully listen to teacher ping and think about it. 

This was one of my favourite scenes from ep 1, personally. I liked how we got to see Boss' personality being both critical and also responsive to authority. His character is interesting to me. I'm looking forward to watching his story develop.

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Hm, if we look at it this way, I think the episode nonetheless gives a possible explanation. When talking with Boss, Teacher Ping says that "last year" he taught music. He may actually be teaching something different now or may even be acting in a different capacity in the school administration (given that he doesn't talk about his lesson plans for "this year," as far as I recall). Maybe that's exactly why Boss went to see Teacher Ping. 

This just led to a random question, if anyone knows the answer. Where I live, if you study to become a the equivalent of a high school teacher you have to choose two subjects, like PE+Math, Art+Biology or Native Language+English. Is it the same in Thailand and Teacher Ping is a Music+Something teacher?

at first i thought boss just want attention, but he later show he really want to do good job. his conversation with teacher ping is very interesting scene imo. boss stay calm.. and state his points and reasons, and also carefully listen to teacher ping and think about it. 

How open for discussion is the teachers generally in Thailand? (Individually it varies, obviously) Understandedly, respect plays a big part, but for example, do you get to discuss the study plan with them? Where I live we're supposed to play a part in our education and we had questionnaires about how the teacher could improve themselves and the lessons, what was good and bad about our lessons and what we wanted to learn in the future. Also, when we began a new part of our lessons (like historical writers or the industrial revolution) we we're often asked how we wanted to study this part of the subject, for example, did we want to watch a movie, should the teacher present the subject or should we read in our books, as an exam should we write an essay at home or have a written paper in school, etc. Does this happen often in schools in Thailand?

This also made me wonder about the Jane part. Where I live it's not strange to not agree/point out a flaw in what a teacher is saying (A university student who was talking to my class a few years ago told a story about how she went abroad and people were shocked how she dared to have a dicussion with her university professor about things she didn't agree with). But how okay is it for a student to point out something wrong (or something they don't agree with, even if they don't end up being right) in Thailand? Or is it just the way she did it that was disrespectful and not what she was doing in itself?

That got kind of long with a lot of questions, haha. Hope they don't seem too stupid.

Also, thanks for the recaps, bencanuck! I planned on waiting for the subs, but gave in and now I'm watching the raws as soon as possible! :P Can't wait for episode 2 eng sub, I think I'll maybe have some more comments then.

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@indiiea by the way, where do you live? Here, in my country, PH, we also have assessments for our teachers maybe at the middle of the school year or on the near end on which we provide our feedback on how a good/bad the teacher is however, we do not have that enough power to influence that kind of teacher on how he/she can deliver or present discussions in class. Maybe it differs with private schools (I used to be in a public school, by the way) so I don't have that enough knowledge then. 

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This just led to a random question, if anyone knows the answer. Where I live, if you study to become a the equivalent of a high school teacher you have to choose two subjects, like PE+Math, Art+Biology or Native Language+English. Is it the same in Thailand and Teacher Ping is a Music+Something teacher?

How open for discussion is the teachers generally in Thailand? (Individually it varies, obviously) Understandedly, respect plays a big part, but for example, do you get to discuss the study plan with them? Where I live we're supposed to play a part in our education and we had questionnaires about how the teacher could improve themselves and the lessons, what was good and bad about our lessons and what we wanted to learn in the future. Also, when we began a new part of our lessons (like historical writers or the industrial revolution) we we're often asked how we wanted to study this part of the subject, for example, did we want to watch a movie, should the teacher present the subject or should we read in our books, as an exam should we write an essay at home or have a written paper in school, etc. Does this happen often in schools in Thailand?

This also made me wonder about the Jane part. Where I live it's not strange to not agree/point out a flaw in what a teacher is saying (A university student who was talking to my class a few years ago told a story about how she went abroad and people were shocked how she dared to have a dicussion with her university professor about things she didn't agree with). But how okay is it for a student to point out something wrong (or something they don't agree with, even if they don't end up being right) in Thailand? Or is it just the way she did it that was disrespectful and not what she was doing in itself?

That got kind of long with a lot of questions, haha. Hope they don't seem too stupid.

Also, thanks for the recaps, bencanuck! I planned on waiting for the subs, but gave in and now I'm watching the raws as soon as possible! :P Can't wait for episode 2 eng sub, I think I'll maybe have some more comments then.

in the faculty of education, there are various major, which chosen as you apply to the university, kindergarten, primary, arts, PE, music, agriculture, sociology, maths etc. hence, high school teachers only teach one subject in their lives, excluding those in faraway tiny schools.

yes it depends on individual but, in general, students should not argue back to the teacher, even in bachelor degree classes, discussion isn't very welcomed. and, yes, the tone, the way Jane spoke was a problem too. if she talked in soft voice, the teacher might not as furious. the pen throwing isn't common though. 

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@indiiea by the way, where do you live? Here, in my country, PH, we also have assessments for our teachers maybe at the middle of the school year or on the near end on which we provide our feedback on how a good/bad the teacher is however, we do not have that enough power to influence that kind of teacher on how he/she can deliver or present discussions in class. Maybe it differs with private schools (I used to be in a public school, by the way) so I don't have that enough knowledge then. 

I live in Sweden and I went to public school too.

Thank you for your answers! :)

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Hm, if we look at it this way, I think the episode nonetheless gives a possible explanation. When talking with Boss, Teacher Ping says that "last year" he taught music. He may actually be teaching something different now or may even be acting in a different capacity in the school administration (given that he doesn't talk about his lesson plans for "this year," as far as I recall). Maybe that's exactly why Boss went to see Teacher Ping. 

This just led to a random question, if anyone knows the answer. Where I live, if you study to become a the equivalent of a high school teacher you have to choose two subjects, like PE+Math, Art+Biology or Native Language+English. Is it the same in Thailand and Teacher Ping is a Music+Something teacher?

at first i thought boss just want attention, but he later show he really want to do good job. his conversation with teacher ping is very interesting scene imo. boss stay calm.. and state his points and reasons, and also carefully listen to teacher ping and think about it. 

How open for discussion is the teachers generally in Thailand? (Individually it varies, obviously) Understandedly, respect plays a big part, but for example, do you get to discuss the study plan with them? Where I live we're supposed to play a part in our education and we had questionnaires about how the teacher could improve themselves and the lessons, what was good and bad about our lessons and what we wanted to learn in the future. Also, when we began a new part of our lessons (like historical writers or the industrial revolution) we we're often asked how we wanted to study this part of the subject, for example, did we want to watch a movie, should the teacher present the subject or should we read in our books, as an exam should we write an essay at home or have a written paper in school, etc. Does this happen often in schools in Thailand?

This also made me wonder about the Jane part. Where I live it's not strange to not agree/point out a flaw in what a teacher is saying (A university student who was talking to my class a few years ago told a story about how she went abroad and people were shocked how she dared to have a dicussion with her university professor about things she didn't agree with). But how okay is it for a student to point out something wrong (or something they don't agree with, even if they don't end up being right) in Thailand? Or is it just the way she did it that was disrespectful and not what she was doing in itself?

That got kind of long with a lot of questions, haha. Hope they don't seem too stupid.

Also, thanks for the recaps, bencanuck! I planned on waiting for the subs, but gave in and now I'm watching the raws as soon as possible! :P Can't wait for episode 2 eng sub, I think I'll maybe have some more comments then.

in malaysia, i think the numbers of subjects depends on how much classes teacher have to teach.. for example, engineering drawing only have 2 classes, so that teacher took another class which was PE. for subjects like chemistry they got 4 classes to teach.. each class have 2period each week..so they don't have to teach additional subject. 

 

i remember i used to answer such questionnaire too.. but im not sure if they still do it now.. (its been 9 years since i left school) 

and in my university, usually lecturers welcomes questions and discussions.. but.. there are some lecturers with too much pride and ego don't like to be argued. xD 

 

i have another (bonus) question, i read an article's comment about a korean show "abnormal summit", its a discussion show with alot of foreign representative such as american, japan, china, etc2 discussing about culture, mindset, issues and more.. and in one of the latest episode (haven't watch only read the *spoiler* article), the thai representative mention about thai's transgender (there's alot of them, and the army exemptions, etc) , and he said that in thai school, you can choose whether want to wear boys uniform or girls uniform. is it mean? character like mikey, can go to school wear girl's uniform? is it true? 

 

ps: don't be shy to state your country.. i love to read about them :D

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Guest Vergara

I just wonder why Boss chose Non to his team because Non is not like others who seem to be excellent students. 

 

When Boss and Ter initially approach Non, Non asks, "What could you possibly want me for?" Ter then tells him they are looking for an art director. In other words, Boss wants Non for his skills and abilities, too. It's just that these skills and abilities aren't academic like some of the other students' are. I think this fits what we know of Boss' way of doing things to some extent? :sweatingbullets:

 But I dont think his drawing skill is good enough. Look at what he drew on the board about his friends. Meh. Lol. But never mind, it looks like Non is trying his best to make those plans come true since I've seen some random pictures on facebook abt next episode. 

 

Hm, if we look at it this way, I think the episode nonetheless gives a possible explanation. When talking with Boss, Teacher Ping says that "last year" he taught music. He may actually be teaching something different now or may even be acting in a different capacity in the school administration (given that he doesn't talk about his lesson plans for "this year," as far as I recall). Maybe that's exactly why Boss went to see Teacher Ping.

Thanks. It could be if he has a role in school administration.

Discussing about culture is interesting too, I love it. By the way it maybe be off topic but still dont know why each character has nickname (some of them even in English) and use it at school also instead of real name. I've watched this show since last year but still have been confused abt it.

 

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in malaysia, i think the numbers of subjects depends on how much classes teacher have to teach.. for example, engineering drawing only have 2 classes, so that teacher took another class which was PE. for subjects like chemistry they got 4 classes to teach.. each class have 2period each week..so they don't have to teach additional subject. 

 

i remember i used to answer such questionnaire too.. but im not sure if they still do it now.. (its been 9 years since i left school) 

and in my university, usually lecturers welcomes questions and discussions.. but.. there are some lecturers with too much pride and ego don't like to be argued. xD 

 

i have another (bonus) question, i read an article's comment about a korean show "abnormal summit", its a discussion show with alot of foreign representative such as american, japan, china, etc2 discussing about culture, mindset, issues and more.. and in one of the latest episode (haven't watch only read the *spoiler* article), the thai representative mention about thai's transgender (there's alot of them, and the army exemptions, etc) , and he said that in thai school, you can choose whether want to wear boys uniform or girls uniform. is it mean? character like mikey, can go to school wear girl's uniform? is it true? 

 

ps: don't be shy to state your country.. i love to read about them :D

in my school, indeed, there were some teachers that teach different related subjects e.g., traditional dancing+traditional music, engineering drawing+welding, etc.

there is something lost, the transgender students is free to wear uniform of either sex in most universities. as students don't have to wear uniform in most parts of the world, it can be some misundersting.

 

Thanks. It could be if he has a role in school administration.

Discussing about culture is interesting too, I love it. By the way it maybe be off topic but still dont know why each character has nickname (some of them even in English) and use it at school also instead of real name. I've watched this show since last year but still have been confused abt it.

 

are you sure this topic hasn't been discussed before? anyway, it's a thai custom that the parents give their child 2 names, an informal (aka. nick name) and a formal ones (aka legal name). the 2 names may relevant or irrelevant to each other. relevant ones such as, Jane - Jane, Dao - Dutdao, Athit - Sun (Athit means Sun). Irrelevant ones such as, On-amol - Oil (On-amol means flawless girl), Panin - Kanompang (Panin means one who talks well, Kanompang means bread.)

you may notice that siblings usually have relevant nick names e.g., Popcorn - Kanompang, Phu - Phao, Mhog (mist) - Fon (rain).

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are you sure this topic hasn't been discussed before? anyway, it's a thai custom that the parents give their child 2 names, an informal (aka. nick name) and a formal ones (aka legal name). the 2 names may relevant or irrelevant to each other. relevant ones such as, Jane - Jane, Dao - Dutdao, Athit - Sun (Athit means Sun). Irrelevant ones such as, On-amol - Oil (On-amol means flawless girl), Panin - Kanompang (Panin means one who talks well, Kanompang means bread.)

you may notice that siblings usually have relevant nick names e.g., Popcorn - Kanompang, Phu - Phao, Mhog (mist) - Fon (rain).

It was discussed before like a year ago after Season 2 ended. I still remember that teachers used their legal names when addressing the students. 

That's what I don't like the new soompi. The topics that were discussed before are hard to find. It's been messed up. 

Also, I read a comment from facebook. Not so sure about this since I'm not a buddhist but someone asked about the morning rituals in the school. Like in Episode 1, when Jane was asked to attend the morning ritual. 

The question that was raised "Do christian students also do the morning rituals? or only the buddhist students?" I also want to know if what kind of prayer they did on that particular scene. Is it only restrictive for buddhist or is it also applicable for christian students? 

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The question that was raised "Do christian students also do the morning rituals? or only the buddhist students?" I also want to know if what kind of prayer they did on that particular scene. Is it only restrictive for buddhist or is it also applicable for christian students? 

Christian schools also have morning rituals, morning prayers. Actually, the school they film at is (in real life) a Catholic school: Assumption College Thonburi. On Hormones, you'll see statues or stained glass of Mary and saints in the background (and at least once in the foreground)... I assume the area they use for the assembly and Buddhist prayers in Hormones serves the same use (except for Christian prayers) in real life.

The prayer they are praying in S03E01 is a Buddhist-specific prayer. It is in Pali (the holy language of Theravada Buddhism). The Three Jewels feature in it -- that is, parts of the prayer mention the Lord Buddha (and his domain), dharma, and respect for the sangha. In the episode, we only hear the end, about the sangha.

I would say that the prayer in that scene is not applicable and in some cases inappropriate for non-Buddhists to pray. I would not pray it.

I would hope that non-Buddhist students would be given the option to quietly, patiently, and respectfully wait (without repeating the words and without doing the gestures). On the other hand, it would not surprise me to find such religious freedom interfered with at a practical level. (This goes both ways. There are lots of Buddhist students at Catholic schools. In general, Catholic schools are considered somewhat prestigious, though not at the top of the school rankings -- and so there are many Buddhists at Catholic schools who must even attend Mass from time to time. Perhaps in theory they do not have to. But in practice they may have to.) I don't know how common religious freedom is in these matters.

That's what I don't like the new soompi. The topics that were discussed before are hard to find. It's been messed up. 

Yes, definitely agreed! This is so annoying! So much formatting was lost; some of the old, informative posts are unreadable. :crazy:

:(

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are you sure this topic hasn't been discussed before? anyway, it's a thai custom that the parents give their child 2 names, an informal (aka. nick name) and a formal ones (aka legal name). the 2 names may relevant or irrelevant to each other. relevant ones such as, Jane - Jane, Dao - Dutdao, Athit - Sun (Athit means Sun). Irrelevant ones such as, On-amol - Oil (On-amol means flawless girl), Panin - Kanompang (Panin means one who talks well, Kanompang means bread.)

you may notice that siblings usually have relevant nick names e.g., Popcorn - Kanompang, Phu - Phao, Mhog (mist) - Fon (rain).

It was discussed before like a year ago after Season 2 ended. I still remember that teachers used their legal names when addressing the students. 

That's what I don't like the new soompi. The topics that were discussed before are hard to find. It's been messed up. 

Also, I read a comment from facebook. Not so sure about this since I'm not a buddhist but someone asked about the morning rituals in the school. Like in Episode 1, when Jane was asked to attend the morning ritual. 

The question that was raised "Do christian students also do the morning rituals? or only the buddhist students?" I also want to know if what kind of prayer they did on that particular scene. Is it only restrictive for buddhist or is it also applicable for christian students? 

every students repqired to attend morning assembly. however, non-buddhists don't have to pray, just stand silently in the row during the prayer.

in catholic schools, there may be no buddhistic morning prayer but christian prayer on special occasions (christmas eve, easter, thankgiving. the school closed on christmas) and non-christian may not attend such event.

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  Christian schools also have morning rituals, morning prayers. Actually, the school they film at is (in real life) a Catholic school: Assumption College Thonburi. On Hormones, you'll see statues or stained glass of Mary and saints in the background (and at least once in the foreground)... I assume the area they use for the assembly and Buddhist prayers in Hormones serves the same use (except for Christian prayers) in real life.

The prayer they are praying in S03E01 is a Buddhist-specific prayer. It is in Pali (the holy language of Theravada Buddhism). The Three Jewels feature in it -- that is, parts of the prayer mention the Lord Buddha (and his domain), dharma, and respect for the sangha. In the episode, we only hear the end, about the sangha.

I would say that the prayer in that scene is not applicable and in some cases inappropriate for non-Buddhists to pray. I would not pray it.

I would hope that non-Buddhist students would be given the option to quietly, patiently, and respectfully wait (without repeating the words and without doing the gestures). On the other hand, it would not surprise me to find such religious freedom interfered with at a practical level. (This goes both ways. There are lots of Buddhist students at Catholic schools. In general, Catholic schools are considered somewhat prestigious, though not at the top of the school rankings -- and so there are many Buddhists at Catholic schools who must even attend Mass from time to time. Perhaps in theory they do not have to. But in practice they may have to.) I don't know how common religious freedom is in these matters.

most catholic schools have small chapels within and hold the mass every sunday, since it's weekend, only christians will attend.

some catholic schools are top-notched, Saint Gabriel, Saint Joseph, Saint Francis Xavier, Assumption Bangrak. eventhough these school don't top academic ranking but in English, (they fall within the country's top 50 though), elite parents prefer these schools, why?

- they have strict treatments on students and parents can be at ease that their children won't do anything controversial at school, the etiquette is expected to be improved too.

- since all students are from higher class, the children are less likely to be drawn to ignoble path.

- your children will get to know some high profile friends, which may be very useful when they grow up.

- the rich doesn't really care if their children aren't excel in studying but English. academic excellence isn't required to success the business. foreign language(s) and "connection" are more beneficial.

- the children can get supplementary academic courses from cram schools.

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- since all students are from higher class, the children are less likely to be drawn to ignoble path.

- your children will get to know some high profile friends, which may be very useful when they grow up.

Classism at its finest. ;)

(I don't mean welp! I mean the parents who think this way, as well as the people in the school system who facilitate this kind of thinking. welp is just telling it like it is. Sadly.)

 most catholic schools have small chapels within and hold the mass every sunday, since it's weekend, only christians will attend.

Hmm, my experience (as a Catholic who has been involved in these things in several places) is more complicated. The urban Catholic schools that I know well will sometimes have Mass during school hours (a few times per term: beginning of the term, end of the term, some special occasions). This should be for Catholics, though. Regarding Buddhists possibly having to attend, it happens. I've seen boarding students "asked" to attend funeral rites that are definitely Catholic. (I considered this more than an invitation.) The negligence of a busy priest can also result in an inter-religious instruction (about, say, the meaning of religious symbols for Catholics) becoming joined with a Mass (in the same time-slot during the school day). By default, some Buddhist students will have to attend. Things like this happen. I don't know how much or how often, but they happen. Religious freedom is an area of growth, though the theory may be worked out well enough already.

(Backwoods Catholic schools are a different beast altogether. It may simply be "assumed" that students are OK with attending things because they are studying at a Catholic school. :mellow: )

At any rate, one hopes Nadao Bangkok doesn't force students to do anything religious. :D

im interested in pala, bcause i think his character doesn't suit his face xD 

I think Sky's character in ThirTEEN Terrors was sorta similar: quiet, expressive, seemingly a bit inexperienced or naive.

sky13terrors.jpg

I assume Sky is a bit like this, given that characters for Season 3 were largely developed from the actors and given the nature of the small role Sky had in ThirTEEN Terrors.

Pala's story is another one I'm looking forward to. :) 

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Guest antakalainaro

@indiiea by the way, where do you live? Here, in my country, PH, we also have assessments for our teachers maybe at the middle of the school year or on the near end on which we provide our feedback on how a good/bad the teacher is however, we do not have that enough power to influence that kind of teacher on how he/she can deliver or present discussions in class. Maybe it differs with private schools (I used to be in a public school, by the way) so I don't have that enough knowledge then. 

Where do you study? I'm studying in UP and we have that during the end of the semester

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