[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

FYI:

DEADLINE FOR THE FINAL ROUND IS 8PM KST ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 8

Got clarification from Madrarua since the GMT+1 conversion was hard for me to figure out.  

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

FYI:

DEADLINE FOR THE FINAL ROUND IS 8PM KST ON TUESDAY, AUGUST 8

Got clarification from Madrarua since the GMT+1 conversion was hard for me to figure out.  

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Yeorobun, just in case you have any thoughts on the characters we're working on for our FINAL ROUND submission, here's a reference:

Assignments:

1) Wook - @silentwind @summer2017

2) Yeonhwa - @NerinaC @chi13lou

3) Yoo - Meahri and @ktcjdrama 

4) Yo (with a little bit of Won) - @q4q4 @Siracusa

 

REVIEWERS:

@sublimelyheureuse @antoniaclamens @Desvlo @riuenu @Thirzazha94 @fatmeow  

 

IF YOU'D LIKE TO BE ONE OF OUR REVIEWERS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW ASAP. THANKS IN ADVANCE TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR ASSISTANCE!! 

@ilovecoffeeandbooks My apologies. You've been such an awesome supporter. Would you consider reviewing and providing feedback for our team. 

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

Yeorobun, just in case you have any thoughts on the characters we're working on for our FINAL ROUND submission, here are the people who are working on each of the characters:

Assignments:

1) Wook - @silentwind @summer2017

2) Yeonhwa - @NerinaC @chi13lou

3) Yoo - Meahri and @ktcjdrama 

4) Yo (with a little bit of Won) - @q4q4 @Siracusa

 

REVIEWERS:

@sublimelyheureuse @antoniaclamens @Desvlo @riuenu @Thirzazha94 @fatmeow  

 

IF YOU'D LIKE TO BE ONE OF OUR REVIEWERS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW ASAP. THANKS IN ADVANCE TO EVERYONE FOR THEIR ASSISTANCE!! 

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

29 minutes ago, chi13lou said:

Since @NerinaC and I are tasked with writing about YH for the final round, help us decide on her most iconic scene -

Was it -

1) the scene wherein she wore the mask of HS to make KG believe she was HS?

2) her wedding to KG?

3) her whipping HS?

4) her audience with Yo wearing the ring he gave her?

5) confrontation with Wook after he killed the court maid?

6) her telling Yo it would be interesting to tame WS?

any other ideas?

 

Chi, don't forget that she helped plan (or was she the mastermind??) of the poisoning. Remember the poison scene where she drank the same tea but let it drip down her hanbok, and then bit her lip so that she too was bleeding from the mouth?

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

5 minutes ago, summer2017 said:

 

Waiting for your PM @meahri_1 please. Feel free to assign. 

@chi13lou how about the scenes she mentioned about Eun in damiwon and the scenes she told hae soo she will be queen?

 

Done. You can look in your PM now. Let the drafting begin!!! 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

14 hours ago, meahri_1 said:

 

 

 

 

So let's keep the info we're pulling all together. Here's what both I and @summer2017 pulled so far. As we pull more info, PLEASE QUOTE THIS POST so that all the compilations are together.

@silentwind  I had suggested Wook earlier because of the reasons you mentioned.

So for everyone that's participating thus far, @chi13lou @summer2017 @ktcjdrama @antoniaclamens and silentwind ( @NerinaC @Siracusa @Desvlo @sublimelyheureuse @q4q4...let me know chingu if any of you have time to lend a hand. Perhaps the more of us there are, the smaller the tasks can be for each, and the faster we can get to submission).

If any of you have reviewed Team W's prior submissions, their content is always comprehensive...something the judges like. As such, I think we should tackle all 4 -- Yoo, Yo, Wook and Yeonhwa. We already know Yoo and Yo are traditional, classic 2-dimensional villains, so perhaps they should be the first ones mentioned in our submission. Wook and Yeonhwa are more complex...the former more than the latter. As such, perhaps we should end on a strong note with Wook. He, out of the 4, will have the most content to write about.

Consider this the beginning of our strategy discussions. Once we identify everyone who is participating in this final round, we can take the discussion into PM. Arasso?  

 

 

 

IMAGES

Spoiler

 

Queen Yoo

 

 

 

 

Wang Yo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeonhwa

 

 

 

 

 

Wook and Yo

 

 

 

Wook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Annyeong chingudeul! So if there's anyone else who'd like to sign up, please reach out to me ASAP. It is now the evening of 8/2 if we're going by GMT+1 for the contest time.

@ktcjdrama  @summer2017 @silentwind @NerinaC @chi13lou  I'll  be inviting you to a PM. You can work with your partner in whatever platform you prefer. We'll convene here for status checks and to go over compiled work when each team is ready for review.

@q4q4 @Siracusa @sublimelyheureuse @antoniaclamens If you don't have time to pitch in with the writing, we'll need your help with review/feedback. Jebal. 

PLEASE NOTE EVERYONE THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF IMAGES IN THE SPOILER ABOVE THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN SIZED DOWN TO THE APPROPRIATE THUMBNAILS (UGH...SO SMALL). I WILL BE LOOKING FOR MORE, BUT I'VE COLLECTED OVER 40 SO FAR.

 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

On 8/1/2017 at 10:10 AM, chi13lou said:

@silentwind I agree with you regarding YH and Wook being more complex. Looks nice on the outside but rotten to the core, while Mommy Dearest and her son are obviously evil from the get go. Since round 3 mentioned villain/s then perhaps we can explore all 4. Gather what we can on each then assign 1 or 2 of us to each villain, who will collate materials on each character.

FINAL ROUND : The villain(s)

Please follow these guidelines :

• The type of villain she/he is  ( eg: tragic villain, serial killer, psychopath, etc.)
• discuss the villain(s) background
• discuss his/her relationship with the OTP ( if any)
• discuss his/her motives
• discuss his/ her goals
• discuss his/ her traits
• discuss his/her impact on the plot advancement
• describe his/her iconic scene ( NB :  for each villain = a description)

 

Only thumbnail pictures are allowed: 
-  Horizontal images should not exceed 200px (width) x 115px (height)
- Vertical images should not exceed 100px (width) x 150px (vertical)

IMAGE FILES

Spoiler

 

 

 

 Queen Yoo

 

 

 

Wang Yo

 

 

 

 

 

Yeonhwa

 

 

 

 

Wook and Yo

 

 

Wook

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 8/1/2017 at 5:39 AM, meahri_1 said:

Thoughts on Wook:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

On 10/7/2016 at 7:08 AM, 40somethingahjumma said:

I don't think it's harsh at all and I, from my interactions with women who have left controlling and/or abusive relationships, can see a ring of truth in what you're saying. It's not that I think Su and Uk had an abusive relationship... not at all... but I agree that Su wants to think the best of people even when faced with evidence to the contrary. That worked well with So... because the core of who he was largely misunderstood by everyone and he was trying to belong somewhere. In this instance her desire to help him did bring out the best in him. However, her do-gooding is a double-edged sword as we saw in Ep. 10 and 11, as it was used against her to implicate her in a capital crime.

I believe she stuck it out to the very end with Uk for two reasons. Firstly, it was important for her to believe that their romance wasn't a lie, that somehow she was some kind of idiot to believe that she was loved. On top of all that she had suffered from Lady O's death and the attempted poisoning of the CP, it would be even more devastating for her to realise that she had given her heart to a man who didn't even love her even just a tad. I think it gave her some comfort to know that he did love her in spite of not delivering at all. Secondly, I think it also goes to the issue of judgement. Was she so wrong about a man who seemed to all intents and purposes, the perfect guy? I can't imagine how earth-shattering it must be to face the fact that the man you gave your heart to wasn't just timid about coming forward to plead your case but that he might be a first class blackguard.  

The fact that he couldn't deliver on even the most simple promises should have set off alarm bells. But of course Su wants to think the best of people. And she's more than willing to give them chance after chance. The fundamental problem was that Su really didn't know Uk that well. All those stolen moments they shared seemed few and far between. In the end, it was the image more than the man that took her fancy. Or the possibility of what this man could offer her.

The part that I think was "controlling" was Uk saying that he did it all for her sake. I'm not sure about anyone else, but it felt a lot like emotional blackmail to me. Telling her that he embarked on the road to hell and throne grabbing because he was too powerless to protect her... puts the onus on her to support him and it gives him a cover for his ambitions. This in turns gives him justification for doing all kinds of heinous things because in his mind, he's only doing it all to protect Su. Still, Uk continues to see himself as the victim in all of this and uses his "victimhood" to justify his ambition to get on board the game of thrones.

That's why I've been saying that we don't really need to feel that sorry for him. He's a guy who doesn't like to get his hands dirty so he piggybacks on others and what they're doing so he doesn't have to look like the bad guy. He's very clever about it but that kind of MO has limitations. That's why he will never be king and even on the off chance that he does... he won't be a good one. Plotting and scheming will only get you so far. To rule or govern, you actually have to do something and take responsibility for it.

 

I haven't read Candide in years... not since I completed my undergrad studies. But I also remember it as a satire on Utopianism. As I've said on a number of occasions, before the death of Lady O, Su was an unerring optimist. She was wide-eyed about living in the palace thinking that she could go around helping people with happy abandon and not bring negative attention to herself. But yeah, she was mugged by reality in a big way. 

I think it was @liddi who said that we were somehow strong-armed into seeing Uk's negative side. I can imagine someone taking that position if you thought that Uk was not such a bad guy and now suddenly he's scheming and "prioritizing". I guess for me, there were always disturbing tendencies in his personality from Day 2 so I'm not as taken aback by the "prioritizing". That self-centredness, that indecision, that lack of action... they were all pointing to something. All he needed was the right trigger to put him on the present path... and he found it.

ML being a K drama... well, they do love their villains to be villains. 

Incidentally Uk being ambitious doesn't bother me but really he's such a weasel about it. The man can't even be open about it like Yeon Hwa or Yo. It is fascinating that he wants to do bad things behind the scenes and come up smelling like roses... but really who is he kidding?

(Good grief, how did I manage to write another essay again? I don't mean to and they just sort of happen)

From Solelurking:

I agree with you totally.

Wook's step is always a careful analyzed one. He successfully restrain his instinct when it come to Soo for now. Taking step forward but then freeze as he remember what he will lose. But I don't know in the future. It seems to me he slowly losing his mind when it comes to Soo. He even kind of scold his wife at dinner in last night ep. Madam Hae looked a bit taken back. It's the first time perfect prince doing this, I guess. Imagine the pain and joy he might have when he saw Soo walking trough that door. But he choose to walked away. I think because he knows to be in the same place with Soo without touching her is a pain or he need time to think and gather his thoughts again. My guess it's both. Hehehe. 

WS in the other hand is really a soft hearted kind of person. He can bear to think Soo get beating because she wants to give back the hair pin. It's not necessarily he falling for Soo at this poin. But he is fond of her and begin to see her as his people (hence the claim she's mine). As we all know So is very protective of his people  and he is living outside the palace norm all his life so he don't really care about hierarchy. I think rather than falling so hard so fast like Wook, So and Soo will begin their journey as a friend first. 

Btw I'm a Wook's fan so if I blabber too much about him, ignore me. Nice to meet you. 

 

From theseaasleep:

I was less annoyed with Wook about his slow reaction than I was with his deliberate psychological undercutting of So, a thing that completely bewildered and hurt So because he defused the situation yet here he was being kicked yet again. Wook's phrasing was chosen for maximum damage to both discourage So and remind him of his place, which is nowhere. It had no root except in jealousy and (self-directed) anger unlike his slow reaction that was bound up in a lot of hierarchical stuff.

I compare it to the scene where we met the flower princes for the first time. 3rd Prince (one day I'll remember his name and that's the day he'll die, lol) was about to hit a servant for spilling wine on him but Wook *immediately* halts/distracts his brother and the servant is given a reprieve. It was nothing for Wook to instantly interfere because there was a clear-cut way to handle it without having the higher rank/his brother lose face to the lower rank/the servant. This is not the case between Soo and Wook's sister (I will learn her name, someday). Not disciplining a servant could be seen as magnanimous but with his sister, Wook would be undercutting her authority and social ranking for a social "inferior". This leaves Wook caught between upholding social/cultural norms and the right thing because choosing Soo in this instance runs a bit deeper than the matter of his feelings. Soo is someone who 1) is righteous enough to take a beating in place of her servant and 2) is under his household's protection. No wonder the perfect Prince who everyone thinks should be the Crown Prince freezes, his actions stuttered. He instinctively moves forward but deliberately stops himself and it takes a couple of strikes before he makes a serious move to stop it. This isn't the only time he's been slow to react when Soo has tangled with a social "better" - there was also her fight with Eun. The fight was already in session by the time he arrived and everyone watching was amused or surprised but also knew her fate was sealed the moment she laid hands on a Prince. Only So bothered to stop her as soon as he saw the situation because it was better to do something than nothing. We're likely to repeat this theme throughout the drama: Wook's inaction versus So's action which will likely lead to a situation where Wook overreacts to compensate.

Now for So, who arrives later than everyone else, the decision is easier because he's been set outside of society for all his life. He quickly assesses the situation, understands the costs of stopping Wook's sister and still chooses to do so. Why? Probably partially because societal/cultural norms have done him few favors in his life. Protecting the Princess's pride is not (should not be) worth more than protecting a person from being beaten over a mistake/misunderstanding. So doesn't completely throw away the norms because he does explicitly apologize to the Princess afterwards. The other reason to stop it is he's growing to like this strange Soo girl and while it's not at the depth of Wook yet, it is enough for him to put himself out there.

I'm not sure how much Wook stood to "lose" if he had stepped in sooner and really, he could have stopped it before it all began because nearly all the Princes were there long before Soo exchanged herself for her servant. On the surface, it doesn't seem as if So loses too much because he's already on the outs but Wook's sister is one of the very few people who seem genuinely on his side. Disrespecting her could cost him a rare ally and friend (?), so he might have less face to lose but more to lose personally. My take on the dynamics of the situation as I await the next episode.

From Unnisarah:

 agree with both of my chingu's @theseasasleep and @solelylurking  So had nothing to lose and just wanted to clear things up befor eit got worst. Wook took So's help as a declaration of war. Wook sister has some kind of vendetta againd Hae Soo becuase she suspects somethin is going on Hae Soo and her bother. I think what bothers her is the fact that Hae Soo is not following the norm of the Palace life.     She is not actling like the Lady she is supposed to be. Hae Soo almost got her brother hurt because he went after her when he hard she was in danger. When he took his anger out on So, he lost an ally because So will never become his person. Wook only chose to let him stay in his home so So can become his person. We all saw some scenes where Wook was helping So clean up after killing all those people. Wook has always had his eyes on the throne because that is what his mother expected him to do, Both Wook and his Sister were taught to be perfect, smart and do what is right so their family can look good. His sister has never liked his wife or had any respecect for her. SHe is like so ready to get rid of that woman because she think he wasn't good enough for her brother. I believe that Wook has always done what is expected of him so that he has the perfect image. Everything he did was seen by the servants , his brothers, his cousin in law but he has never warmed up to her at all. I don't he even tried to warm up to her.

From Shiraru:

I juuuuust watched this episode with suuubs, wohooooo~~~ and I think this is my favorite episode so far.

Wang So's mother is a terrible human...how can she say that when clearly Wang So is doing everything for her not to get caught?? I'm curious as how can she hate him so much, what did he do that caused her to hate him to oblivion like that?? She didn't have any problem loving Wang Yo and Wang Jung, so...why?

I love, love, looooove Haesoo's antics, she definitely brings some color to the dull and serious palace life. I particularly laughed out loud on the forest scene because Haesoo cursed when she went full ahead to attack the thugs. I bet all the thugs don't know that they are being cursed because maybe those cursing word haven't been invented yet in that era, hahhaaa...  Also, when she hugged Wang Jung like a sister to a brother, Wang So and Wang Wook were sliiightly jealous, hahahaa...and I love when Wang Jung was like,"Haesoo...sister?", Wang So went,"Sister? *internal voice : WTF YOU CALL HER??*"

I agree with some of you that thought Wang Wook is not that perfect guy he displays, but you have to admit that he's so good at playing 'the good guy everyone admires'. I kinda feel that he's that overly protective and possessive guy if he gets a person he loves as his wife...it's evident on when Wang Wook confronts Wang So. Sure, he's showing much love and affection to Lady Hae too, but the difference is that he doesn't love her...even Lady Hae knows this. Imagine if he loves his wife, imagine if he gets Haesoo. Speaking of Lady Hae, I sincerely hope she gets healthier, even though maybe it's impossible at this point. Besides Chaeryung, she's the only female who's kind to Haesoo from the very start and treats Haesoo as her own daughter. Her feelings towards Haesoo is so pure and genuine, even though I think she noticed how Wang Wook is taking an interest on Haesoo. She's a character too good for the cruel world she's living in, I just want to wish happiness upon her.

Can't wait for the next episode, toniiiiight, toniiiiight~!

From lostmymusic and theseaasleep:

Wook's reaction to So...I don't blame him for that. Yes, it stemmed from jealousy but the entire episode had Wook struggling with his place in the system, his duty towards it all vs. what he really wants. The jabs at So was his the only way he could gain some control over the situation. Sure, the way he said it all did prick but what he said wasn't wrong either. The house is Wook's. Plus, So so boldly claimed the one person as "his person" Wook really wants to have but knows that he can no way have her without hurting some of his precious people along the way.

I agree on the theme of Soo's action vs. Wook's inaction. Idk much about the original story but I do have a feeling that Wook's decision to actively in involved in the fight for the throne will come from his building frustration of wanting to do something but being unable to and ultimately losing it. So is more free as you said. He is not bound by the hierarchical chains cuz all his life he was told repeatedly by actions and manners that he doesn't belong. Not once but twice in the epi Wook had to see Soo at risk and both the times it was So who ultimately helped her out..from the beatings as well as his timely entry when the goons surrounded them. Wook is mostly powerless and for now just wants to keep his world at peace. So he chooses to be on the sidelines as much as he can and try to help from there. He does it with quick comments to diffuse the situation and even silence as well because why would the man of the house step in the household manners when the one who is running the house is involved in the situation? Wook has a very strong internal conflict..add to that his powerlessness to try to fix it and we get what we got i.e. a petty jab at So which meant he doesn't belong.

As for So's apology to YeonHwa (the sister) I'm not reading it as deep as him not wanting to lose a possible ally. YH is just one of those rare people who care for So and So is the person who gives what he receives. This as well as that he has sense enough to deal with the situations cleanly. I think what Wook stood to lose had he stepped in sooner was that Soo's position would've weakened in the household that he gets undue favors from Wook and blah blah blah, you know how gossip works. Wook wants to protect Soo and he wouldn't like if he is the reason that she faces problems in the first place.

The brothers might be the same age but they are fundamentally two different people shaped by their birth and circumstances. While Soo brings out the human in So who is righteous and can be kind and shows that he is not made of rage as people make him to be, Wook ends up showing the helplessness that his position in the society has bestowed upon him. I find it all so interesting and look forward to how it all changes or amplifies in the future.

For the yellow highlight, there's going to be some agree to disagree here, hee. So is admittedly my bias so on a purely subjective level I don't like people taking pock shots at him. But putting that aside, objectively I agree with your point about his warning to So up to a point. My main problem was precisely how he said it as well as the why, which was to inflict maximum psychological damage not to honestly address a concern about the unlikelihood of So being permitted to pursue the women of his household. But as I said, it's an agree to disagree situation since you are granting him more leeway than me in this regard. 

For the bold, Wook isn't choosing the sidelines and diplomacy to keep his world at peace but to not call attention to him and his family because his mom has a plan to get him on the throne. Right now, I don't know how much of this is his ambition or her own but I like your theory about the tug-of-war action vs inaction that will grow between him and So will likely amp up his bid for the throne.

For the pink highlight, I'm not sure if you misunderstood me but I didn't mean that So's apology to Yeon Hwa (thank you, by the way  ) was calculated to salvage a relationship with an ally. Like you, I believe his apology was sincere because he is a person who cares especially for those who have shown care for him. My point about potentially losing Yeon Hwa as an ally if she took the disrespect to heart was me wondering aloud about the potential future costs of So's action vs. Wook's inaction. For example, while she might not hold So's action against him as I speculated, she most certainly will hold it against Soo if her glare is anything to go by; most decidedly a consequence of So's action.

As you say, Wook is bound by the duties placed upon him. If upholding appearances are his chains, then he would lose Soo with or without So's presence. Soo is not an appearance-bound girl, she doesn't hold still for facades. Even as she admonishes herself to be more unassuming for the sake of her host family when she sees something she deems wrong, she leaps to correct it. Her first instinct is to help and she obeys it. She could never quite share that tightly bound existence with him and that's putting aside issues of rank and status as well as the ambitions of his mother. So is much more of a rule-breaker, a rule-challenger because if he wasn't he'd be dead. I suspect as the drama goes on we will see both Soo and So defy rules and circumstance in increasingly clever or mature ways. Right now they are both like wild, loudly yapping puppies running headlong into the next fray.

From Lostmymusic:

Hahaha, I can't really argue the bias bit, can I? So IS love, who am I to deny that? I want him happy oh so much..but Wook tugs at my heartstrings as well. Basically, I'm glad I'm not Soo who has to choose one guy because I personally would never be able to do that xD I'm not saying what Wook did was right but given the circumstances it was certainly logical. None of the brothers are really that close to So to think about his position. Sure, Wook gives him a place to stay and admits to caring for him more than others cuz they were "born in the same year" but no one really sees So as a human prone to being emotionally hurt by the words of others. I do believe that his siblings take the "Wolf Dog" image of his as the only thing So is capable of. It sucks but I can't really blame them. Still..Wook cares for him more than his other brothers but Soo is such a touchy topic for Wook that he loses his diplomatic cool.

Whether we call it keeping world at peace or not wanting to call attention to his family...it basically means the same. Wook just wants to not be in the spotlight for any reason. Now whether its temporary because of his mother's wish to see him on the throne or permanent because he really CBA about the power dynamics..we don't know.

This isn't the last of YH's wrath that Soo would see. It's just the beginning. YH feelings for So are of the possessive kind. Unlike say Wook's wife who'd rather step down for her husband's happiness..YH would rather eliminate any threat that could come in between her and So. At least that's what I think. So has respect for YH and maybe he even is aware of her feelings for him. He doesn't dismiss YH which speaks much about the relationship that they share.

Ya know..I think Wook and Soo would've worked out had HaJin not taken over Soo. We may call her HaeSoo because that's what her name is in Goryeo era but technically, the real HaeSoo is dead. Maybe the show will take a different path but my theory is that HS and Wook had a silent kind of a love where they both knew they were attracted to each other but they didn't act on it. HS was originally a quiet girl...it's our Soo who has the spunk and is more interested in going out and about than staying put and keeping her head down. It's our Soo who has gotten this close to Wook that he is now visibly shaken. And our Soo and Wang Wook will never work out. As much as I get all the feels because goodness, the chemistry loaded with all the sexual tension is just. so. GOOD...I know logically it makes no sense for these two to work and like you said, it's primarily because of who Soo is as a person. Like I said before, I love it how Soo has feelings for Wook, feelings she knows are getting out of control despite her wanting not to...she won't act upon them cuz it's just so wrong. I don't know what will be the incident which would end all her feelings for Wook or HOW she'd fall for So who has lowkey starting falling for her. But what works in favor for Soo and So is that they are both outsiders who don't really fit in the established rules of the kingdom. I believe that is what will play a major part in bringing them closer...it has already started to do so.

From bebebisou33:

Honestly, noone is hating Wang Wook here, but yes, some of us (like me) criticised him. However just by doing this doesn't mean that we hate him. From critic to hate, there is a huge gap. Furthermore the world is not just black and white, just like Wang So. The latter might have been neglected and abused, yet he can be a dangerous and violent man. So Wang Wook might be a nice and well-mannered person, yet he is not that good either. 

The main reproach has been that he is too passive, when it comes to Hae Soo. People mentioned that the origin of his passivitiy is that he has much more responsabilities than Wang So, who was never been raised like him and has no family. Wang So has always been apart from social conventions, nonetheless this point doesn't justify Wang Wook's passivity, since we saw that Wang Wook can be decisive and very quick by making decisions. Let me give you one example:

When the king asked the princes about dethroning Mu, Wang Wook was the first to react and he was followed by the others. They were all put under pressure, he needed to think quickly and make sure that his family is safe. He was able to handle the situation pretty well. Later in the episode 4, when they were before the king again, Wang So confessed that he was the one who killed the monks and destroyed the temple.

What Wang So did was really dangerous, but Wang Wook supported Wang So by justifying Wang So's actions. As we can observe, Wang Wook has learnt to deal with pressure and to keep his family safe. So in my opinion, his situation doesn't justify his behaviour. Now back the main reproach: his passivity towards Hae Soo. He didn't stop the whipping, he didn't interrupt Baek Ah, when the latter was yelling at Hae Soo. He could have intervened here too by saying that he was the main culprit, but he never did. But in my opinion, he is not just passive towards Hae Soo, but also towards lady Hae. For the whole time he had been married, he never said anything about his feelings towards her so that lady Hae always thought, he never loved her. We all know, he did, even if it was a different love. His passivity is even more visible, when the prince wanted to tell his wife that he did love her, but he was stopped just before she died.

 

He accepted her decision, which he will regret later. As conclusion, he was also passive towards lady Hae. From my point of view, when it comes to love, Wang Wook is like paralysed. The other reason why I said, he is a nice guy, but not necessarly a good person is because he promised a lot of things to Hae Soo, but he was never able to keep his promises. He told her, she would never be treated like this again, yet we know, this is not true as he is unable to stop the arranged marriage. Lady Hae pushed him towards Hae Soo and he knew that therefore he wrote Hae Soo a poem and asked for an answer. She asked him to take a second wife, but he refused as he was afraid of it. Wang Wook is very intelligent, when it comes to survive at the court but when it comes to love, he is completely overwhelmed by his feelings so that he is scared of these. MAybe this can be explained by this way: he feels he is not controlling the situation or the relationship, when it comes to love. Therefore he keeps his feelings to himself so that the other has no idea that she has so much power over him. From my point of view, he would have kept Hae Soo like that, secure her feelings for him and nothing else in return, if lady Hae hadn't died. Wang So is the opposite: his feelings are what pushes him to act or react. He killed all these monks out of love for his mother, but it was a really dangerous move because he could have been blamed for the assassination of the Crown Prince. 

From Yourhighness:

All your examples on WW's passivity; court based i.e would not have lead to a lady's reputation being tarnished. WW is smart and he knew the risk and also what the outcome would have been when he spoke in front of the King. And regarding him not completing his sentence to Lady Hae. Either way he looses; if he had completed his sentence of loving her then people would have bashed him for lying as his last words to her. He on the other hand respected Lady Hae's wish, she knew what he was going to say and she didn't want him to lie to her. She didn't want his last words to be a lie so she stopped him. Halting dangerous situations with words while your brothers stand scared & silent and respecting someones last wish is not passivity.

And let's say WW had stopped YH from whipping HS, what would have happened then? HS's reputation in tatters, she would have been sent away, to live God knows what kind of life in Hae clan or used by other people to get to WW. Lady Hae hurt and in pain, a receiver of pity and taunts from people in the court and YH. YH insulted and turning more bitter and hurtful. He himself miserable, all because he went by his instincts and didn't think of the consequences. I won't even bother to think how the King and the Queen would have reacted.

Now I am not saying that WW is a gem who can do no wrong but he is always in a game of chess. Every move has consequences and a counter move. He has to think about everything. So is luckily not in that game yet because everybody still thinks of him as an outsider but he soon will be.

Also about him not keeping his promise..I doubt he foresaw this situation when he made it. No one makes a promise that they know they can't keep.

Anyway, I really don't want to keep on defending WW. I just want to enjoy the show and all the characters so I will just go back to skipping comments that I don't agree with. 

From Diana Blanche:

Let's give a little credit to the Queen Yoo. She's very proud of herself, she likes to shine and has no love in her heart. I don't think she really loves Wang Yo, either Wang Jeung. She loves their beauty in which she sees her own beauty reflected.

I want to see what she will do when Wang Yo will not be next to her to make her feel glowing. She likes to look down on others and her soul is full of hatred and jealousy... she hurt her child and then she despised him for her mistake... but she gave birth to the prince that stole our hearts, and if she would not have sent him away to forget her mistake, maybe now we'd be talking about So Yoo couple.

From Yourhighness:

Honestly, noone is hating Wang Wook here, but yes, some of us (like me) criticised him. However just by doing this doesn't mean that we hate him. From critic to hate, there is a huge gap. Furthermore the world is not just black and white, just like Wang So. The latter might have been neglected and abused, yet he can be a dangerous and violent man. So Wang Wook might be a nice and well-mannered person, yet he is not that good either. 

The main reproach has been that he is too passive, when it comes to Hae Soo. People mentioned that the origin of his passivitiy is that he has much more responsabilities than Wang So, who was never been raised like him and has no family. Wang So has always been apart from social conventions, nonetheless this point doesn't justify Wang Wook's passivity, since we saw that Wang Wook can be decisive and very quick by making decisions. Let me give you one example:

When the king asked the princes about dethroning Mu, Wang Wook was the first to react and he was followed by the others. They were all put under pressure, he needed to think quickly and make sure that his family is safe. He was able to handle the situation pretty well. Later in the episode 4, when they were before the king again, Wang So confessed that he was the one who killed the monks and destroyed the temple.

What Wang So did was really dangerous, but Wang Wook supported Wang So by justifying Wang So's actions. As we can observe, Wang Wook has learnt to deal with pressure and to keep his family safe. So in my opinion, his situation doesn't justify his behaviour. Now back the main reproach: his passivity towards Hae Soo. He didn't stop the whipping, he didn't interrupt Baek Ah, when the latter was yelling at Hae Soo. He could have intervened here too by saying that he was the main culprit, but he never did. But in my opinion, he is not just passive towards Hae Soo, but also towards lady Hae. For the whole time he had been married, he never said anything about his feelings towards her so that lady Hae always thought, he never loved her. We all know, he did, even if it was a different love. His passivity is even more visible, when the prince wanted to tell his wife that he did love her, but he was stopped just before she died.

 

He accepted her decision, which he will regret later. As conclusion, he was also passive towards lady Hae. From my point of view, when it comes to love, Wang Wook is like paralysed. The other reason why I said, he is a nice guy, but not necessarly a good person is because he promised a lot of things to Hae Soo, but he was never able to keep his promises. He told her, she would never be treated like this again, yet we know, this is not true as he is unable to stop the arranged marriage. Lady Hae pushed him towards Hae Soo and he knew that therefore he wrote Hae Soo a poem and asked for an answer. She asked him to take a second wife, but he refused as he was afraid of it. Wang Wook is very intelligent, when it comes to survive at the court but when it comes to love, he is completely overwhelmed by his feelings so that he is scared of these. MAybe this can be explained by this way: he feels he is not controlling the situation or the relationship, when it comes to love. Therefore he keeps his feelings to himself so that the other has no idea that she has so much power over him. From my point of view, he would have kept Hae Soo like that, secure her feelings for him and nothing else in return, if lady Hae hadn't died. Wang So is the opposite: his feelings are what pushes him to act or react. He killed all these monks out of love for his mother, but it was a really dangerous move because he could have been blamed for the assassination of the Crown Prince. 

Chingu thanks you for writing all of Wang Wooks faults concerning his feeling for others. I agree wanting to protect your family is honorable but it should not be at the expense of somone else's life or wants. Wang Wook acts like a "NICE GUY" only for show in my oppinion. He has lots of sides to his personality ( ambiton for the thorne and arrogance and Kindness). He has never let anyone see his arrogant and ambitious side but only his kindness. I think his kidness is a way to attract alies to his plan of becoming emporror. If everyone sees his good deeds, the way he treats his servants and his kindness for his brothers is a good way for him build his allies. Evan now he still doesn't have any true alies except for his brothers.  One thing I am positive is that he doesn't like Wang So and he considers him competition for Hae Soo's affection. He also thinks Wang So is not a person but someone he could get as an ally but not as a brother. I think Wang Wook will one day show Hae Soo the real HATE he has for Wang So , then she will lose respect for him once and for all. ]

From bingewatcherinsomniac:

Although my heart leaning towards supporting So at the moment  (boy, he's such a wounded puppy I NEED to shower him with all love and affection he deserves), I need to chirped in other details that I miss in my previous post about wook's psych (speculation only) since we're at it right now. 

Since he's very careful and considerate person he might come off as scheming and calculative person at times. What he do might not be romantic in spontaneous way, but he is such a pacifist that doesn't want anybody hurt and hold grunge against him. Remember he lives in a place where he needs to be careful at all times just to be safe. 

Even the general in episode 7 warns and motivates So, that there will be only one Prince that can survive and stay in palace. That scene is there to enlightened us viewers what kind of environment the palace is. 

Wook, if I assume (little similar to c-version), came not with a strong familial background. His family, thanks to evil Queen, had been ridicule once and exiled to far away land before. And I believe there's one accident that cause her mother sick and traumatised yeonhwa. He have no option other than stepping up to earn himself place as a prince and bring his family back to its rightful place. This experience somewhat similar to So, that both have to work hard to earn their position. Difference is So is alone but wook came with family. Family might be better and warmer environment to wook but it also comes as burden. What he did might affect his entire family. If he's being careless and hurt anyone, people might revenge and get back to his mother or sister and cause them harm. He have no option other than acts as if he walks on a thin ice.

Wang so, in contrast, as hurts he is, whatever he do only affect himself alone. He can create this illusion of fear to protect himself as that's the only way he knows to survive. 

Take a look at a scene where wook plead to King about haesoo marriage. He's so lost and desperate that he act out of character even the king don't expected him to be there. But he's still careful with his choice of words as to not insulting the king and try to understand king's intention but put himself in his humblest state to plead the king and try to come out with a better idea, all in attempt to save soo. 

The difference is obvious with So that fearfully suggest to King thinking he has a better idea by making Hae family suffered first for certain amount of time then controlling them after pardon them and making Hae family back to their glory. Lol. No wonder the king mad at them. But this choices is what makes them different. So doesn't care about other people out of his utmost concern at the moment (soo) and will do whatever it takes to meet his goals. This scene also gives us an idea what kind of ruler wang soo will be in the future. I love him but he gives us major darth vader vibes sometimes 

If he wants to, wook should know about Hae family situation better as he's his in law, but he choose not to. Even after being humiliated by Hae family in forest, he keeps his cool and try thinking other way. 

So yes his calm and careful nature can be his quality and his flaws sometimes depending how we look at it.

From Larinainlove:

I can't believe the nerve of Wang Wook!!! How dare he say those words?! As I said before here, it's easy for him to blame someone else for his cowardice but it's hard to accept the responsibility he had for all that happened to HS, he could have done something but he chose not to, the least he can do is accept his guilt for it and move on and not blame Wang So for what he did not have the courage to do.  I am beyond disappointed in him, he is a complete let down as a human being.

I love the way WS responded, you go wolf, slap him in the face with the truth! Although WW himself knows who is to blame because he is a coward he always looks for something or someone else to put the blame on. 

 

Thoughts on Queen Yoo:

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from enigmatic_ziphy

Now that i have seen subs,

I am defintiely in minority but I am actually intrigued by mother's hatred for the kid and whether or how much of the blame can be put solely on her shoulder.

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She hates him...because he is personification of every bit of humiliation and pain she has felt. Psychologically she associates him with her most painful period. I can understand what that must feel like.

If your mind is rejecting a particular entity then it really isn't about mother-son for her. She can't view him as a person only. He is only a living walking vest of her pain that just evokes hatred and anger by his mere memory.

Our minds do work that way - how we associate things with meanings or how memories are triggered and how they emotionally overwhelm us. So call it manic depression or whatever, somethign happened, she lost sense of right or wrong and pinned it all on that kid and now its too deep rooted.

Unless something super huge happens, her mind will never see WS as more that receptacle of her horrors and tribulations.

And she is a doting mother otherwise.

 

 

Sad part is, this just highlights how important psychologists are ...you can't fight your brain with empty declaims of morality, right and wrong, responsibility and consequences... because she is not doing this on purpose. And the sad part is, there is no way out of this.

 

Someone asked that she has the greatest power right in front of him of using WS.. but she can't.. even if it comes to a life threatening situation she can't - won't be able to do it (unless random character change)

Because mere sight of him is revolting and repulsive. She would rather die than have any identity association with him.

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From my perspective,

WS's miseries are primarily (99%) king;s doing. I can understand how WS yearns for mother's love and will always resent her and yearn for her. And in all of this the king goes scotfree. Mother blames son, son blames mother. And the real scoundrel just sits on the throne engaging in god knows what lascivious activities

Clearly did something to make wife go crazy.. and then didn't try to keep tabs or save his own kid.

Queen Yoo's impact on So from Briseis:

“I erased all traces of you. I’ve burned it all down. Nothing will lead back to you, Mother… It was all for you, Mother, Mother, Mother,…”

OH HOLY CRAP! One thing was knowing Wang So killed off the monks for his mother, but the fact that he actually came back to her like an eager little boy who got his first A, seeking her approval and praise, is so messed up! It’s heartbreaking how expectant and giddy he is - as if he was sure that this time he has done enough, that this time his mother would surely love him. He even sounds like a little boy, speaking with that touch of vulnerable bravado as if he was actually boasting to her and being proud of himself.

After all the cruel dog comparisons and insults Wang So received during his life, it’s heartwrenchingly ironic that in the end he comes begging for his mother’s affection just like a loyal, abused dog that returns to his master. So much love-starved and f***ed-up he is!

“You are my shame, disgrace, and flaw.”

Wang So comes to his mother expecting an unconditional acceptance from her, just like what would a mother from Hae Soo’s story do, but instead he gets a complete rejection of everything he is. Only mere hours after he slaughtered a whole order of monks to protect her, in an act that was against his conscience and that tarnished his soul. And even then he still begs her for explanation so he would finally understand what is so wrong with him, what he’s lacking, why his mother just can’t love him no matter what he does or how much he tries. And you can see how deep and traumatic his inferiority complex is since he immediately blames his scar for being unworthy of her love, but he never blames her for causing his misery while she blames him for hers - the final proof that he is the victim in this toxic relationship. She hold so much power over him because the sheer force of her brutal rejection sends him stumbling back and later tumbling down on the floor, as if she dealt him a mortal blow. And for a moment all fight goes out of him - the man who fought a small army and still came out victorious is defeated.

The tears start to fall, his lips begin to quiver and he feels nothing but hopelessness as he tells her about his horrid life with his adoptive family. It’s WS’s last attempt to coax at least a hint of affection from her. However, he never stood a chance in the first place because even 15 years ago she chose his older brother over him and it wasn’t about which one of them she would love more, but about the one who would gain her more power. It was simply about betting on the better horse who would get her the throne. The scar made WS into an outcast, unfit to be a king, and it was in that moment when he lost once and for all any chance to be accepted by his mother.

“Today is a day you will remember. You threw me away, Mother. However, I will not leave. From now on.you will have to look only at me.”

Though, when Wang So gets up, with his head held high and determination in his teary eyes, it’s unsettling how much he actually does resemble her - after all the abuse he received he manages to come up with the perfect response and revenge. She said it herself, didn’t she? She can’t bear to look at him so he will stay and torment her until the end of her miserable life. When he turns his back on his mother it’s both literal and figurative and it’s for good. Lee Joon Gi in this scene single-handedly redefines the definition of acting brilliance - it’s unreal how much he’s able to express and emote.

 

Thoughts on Wang Yo:

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From Valsava and Mau_cherry:'

So do I feel the same eager wanting to know what they conversation is about clearly WY feels threaten by WS.. Just seeing how the other brothers are communicating with him and going to him when something is wrong WY may feel that WS could usurp his teritory 

 

For sure... Wang Yo checked out all Princes... his biggest Rivals are Mo and Wook. Since long they plan to get rid of Mo and than they have to win the Kings suport..... whatever is needed. Wang So - he was not really in the Picture. He made him look terrible using the rumors so the People will fear him - but on the other hand he did not even thought he could fight for real.

But he came back - and with every single Day he feels more like a threat. And with every talk he proves more that he is smart and dangerous. But he never took the side of one ot the Brothers. So he never had any suport. If he will become a Rival on one Day he needs suport. So - getting friendly with Baek Ah - he can´t like that.

From valsalva:

In the beginning it seems that WY was very protective of his brother when we see how the mom cut his face WY shouted out for him.. I like to think him seeing his mom behave this way made him fear her and then watching how she threw him away after harming him what did she do to WY to make him do her bidding did she use threats on him clearly the child had to be afraid of her.. Now she will use WY to go against WS  sad how both children have become victims of mom rage and greed for the throne.. She has to put WY on the throne because he's the onlyone that would do as she says but in WS case it's different the wounds are to deep and she has rejected him time and time again..

From madrarua:

Lee Joon Gi really did a stellar job acting here. You could feel Wang So's pain in the unveiling. Far from the smile he gave when he first came into the room, this shows the shame and humiliation he is going through. This is 4th's Achilles heel and 3rd knew it well. He can't beat him with words so he'll make him bow down before him and the others. Next he'll want a more public humiliation. It was a cunning trap he set for 4th. He knew that 10th is like a precocious child, so getting him to corner 4th into the unmasking was like child's play. Wang So is a man of his word, and he knew he would not have backed down even though it's the most humiliating thing he could do. I like how it pans to everyone's reaction. Most look away, making the situation worse. They think they are helping him by pretending ignorance, yet the fact they cannot bring themselves to look at him just reinforces the hideousness of his scar. Hae Soo, fair play to her, was the only one to look him in the eye. She did not waver and took his injury in stride. While all the rest averted their gaze,  she boldly met his telling him in her own inimitable fashion that it doesn't matter to her. That he is himself, Wang So, scar or no scar. It's acceptance in it's most basic form.

From Solelylurking:

Yes, you are right and your argument is spot on too. It is true that The evilishername Queen mother will be likely to shine the most if Yo become king. But if we look other option (there isn't a lot) the most reasonable choice to be what she wants right now is Yo. Wook chance to become King is not as much because his family status is lower than Yo's family status. That's why Wook is careful. He is trying to set his basic as politician first because he know his background is not very helpful. Yo knew this too, that's why he said that to YH. WS chance to become king is slimmer than Wook if we want to based it on how people in that era thinks. They value beauty very much. So's scare is seen as a disgrace. That's why his mother abandon him. He is no use for her because she tought he can not become king. 

That's the basic of my thinking. 

Well Yo and YH is peas in a pot anyway. It's like a snake make a deal to a larger snake. If the writer decide to ditch history, they should make Yo as YH husband. I want to see what their house hold looks like hahaha. But I think they will make YH marry So. It will create more intersting story and the basic of Soo's pain. 

 

Let's consider Yeon-hwa as well:

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Valsava:

 I also thought she had a hand in the King decision, Being she could feel HS taking all her brothers time from her and showing that so many of them are interested in her.. She may have suggested to the King to keep brothers from fighting for her knowing WW was in love with his wife cousin becoming a brother wife or concubine would means she's off limit to her but being the king concubine she could have some lead way being the princess she is she would always hold more power then the king concubine while  the king is alive and even after his death.. If HS marries any of the brothers she to would hold a princess title and she can't have that making her off limits.. 

Welcome Aboard @Neng Erlina  I would like the site that you watch from S one could you please Msgs me the site so I could do some comparisons myself.. Please stop lurking and jump in and chat with us we always looking for a fresh pair of eyes to see things differently..

From Skxz:

Yeon Hwa and Yo. That ship is already sailing for me. It’s a relationship of let’s see who can be more evil. I feel like there is some tension in their relationship. And it is also rather intense. 

Okay aside from all the lovey doveyness, what really drew me into this scene were the facts that Yo presented. That although Yeon Hwa wishes for Wook to sit on the throne that will not get her very far. She will merely be a princess under him and not the Queen like she wants. Yo believes that he is her only option but Yeon Hwa is very smart, she knows that since Yo already has a wife/wives she will not be the Queen either even if she married him and wonders if he will give them up for her to be Queen. They’re characters are both very manipulative, calculative and power focused. This heightens the intensity and tension of their relationship and I love how different it is in comparison to all the other relationships present so far in the series.

On a side note honestly if Yeon Hwa wanted to be Queen and her goal was to get Wook to the throne she might as well just marry him if he does get it. I know this is a rather sick idea but Yo is also her brother, they are blood related so honestly there isn’t much of a difference. Brother or half-brother, they’re still your brother Yeon Hwa. 

So stepping in and stopping the kiss really pissed me off. Him getting involved with Yeon Hwa is just UGHHHHH so frustrating. I don’t want them together. I refuse that they were historically together. I just hate it with a passion and I wish he would stay as far away from her as possible. So you have Hae Soo, let’s be real that’s all you need 

I feel like this is the moment when So realises his feelings for Soo. The lyrics of the song I think really speak to him. There's really nothing else much to say cause So's face says it all. Of course everyone loved it but So was just in awe.

 

from solelurking and bebebisous33:

You are right about YH feeling is not a black and white thing. She is very interesting as a character. She is hateable but in certain way she is pitifull too. 

As I think about again, YH feeling for So is mix feeling. There is a little bit of like, there is a little bit of fascination, but love is strong word. I won't be using it to them until it's proven. She wants to tame the beast. If she loves him, she will not say that. But it is true that she fond of him and care about him (the scene where she mend his wound). 

I don't think she will consider So if she want to marries to power. So is scarred. His chance to become king is slimmer than Wook. That's why she back up Wook so much to become king. I don't know why she doesn't want to marry Yo. If it is power she seeks, she should marry Yo. That's the closest fastest way to get it. 

About Wook.. That's why I said So should develop his feeling a lot faster and take away the girl. Wook's character would not see any big development until that day comes. Wook's feeling for Soo is a mountain, the main purpose for him to smile and breath. He taught her feeling is the same too. I think Wook will think So take away Soo without her consent. That's why he will become beserk. 

It will interesting to watch his character change and shift. 

I disagree with you. Yeon Hwa can't marry Yo because she would suffer the exact same fate than her mother. She would be a wife among others and she would be depend of Yo's good will. What Yeon Hwa wants is to become The Queen and not just Queen. She has the same dream than Queen Yoo, yet the latter never succeeded therefore she is trying to use Yo in order to become The Queen. And this is the other reason why Yeon Hwa can never marry Yo. When Yo becomes the king, the Queen will be his mother. She will be the one who shines the most.

Yo's proposition seems tempting, but it is like with the snake, when it talked to Adam (Bible). His points were correct. If her brother becomes the king, she will only remain the princess. However, since she has such an influence on Wang Wook, she could become the Queen in the shadow. Moreover, she would be less depend than with Yo.

 

From Skxz

FIRST ENCOUNTER

We first meet Yeon Hwa when she catches Soo staring at Wook. She looks like a pure and kind girl but looks can really be deceiving. Right from the get go she emits a very authoritative aura. The way she spoke to Soo was basically her dissing Soo indirectly and highlights how she looks down on people. 

Although she is the first daughter of King Wang Gun being a woman in an era which was male dominated was definitely not easy and she would not have been considered as equals to any of her brothers whether they be younger or older. We can see that this is a struggle she faces and in order for her to be able to gain the power she wishes she must marry someone of high status. Only then would she be able to sit at the top. 

Another hindrance is that she is the child of Queen Hwangbo who is not the first Queen. This puts her further away from her goal and we can tell she hates it. 

HAE SOO'S PUNISHMENT

However it is evident that nothing stops her from seeking power and status. She is often seen conversing and hanging around her brothers which holds to show that she will not back down even if women are viewed as lesser in society. This is evident in the scene where Hae Soo gets a beating. All the princes are present and no one says anything at first. Like many have mentioned even Wook wasn't able to stop her because he was hesitant due to their familial relationship. Eun and Jung didn't dare say anything to her. Yo was just enjoying it like the evil guy he is and Won well he just follows whatever Yo does (I really wanna know more about Won). It was only So who could stop her and even at that point she argued that she was in charge of running the household and this was the power she had and no one could say otherwise. She really stood her ground and that was rather impressive. 

YO AND SO

Episode 5

The interaction with Yo and So was rather interesting. She states "I am not looking for a great man. I am waiting for a man who will cherish me. Someone who will treasure me." This to me is rather ironic as she had told her brother a couple scenes back to marry someone else not for love but for the outlook for his future. She's rather selfish and manipulative.

The most interesting of that scene is when she states "How much fun it would be to turn an animal into a human." This line I think shows that she wants power. She's basically saying what if I could tame a beast and bend them at my will. She is very curious of what this would be like indicating very subtly that she has a thirst for power. 

Episode 7

Finally when her and Yo converse about how she will not get anything she wants even if Wook was to become King. Yo is very calculative and manipulative and in this conversation that is depicted. He says that it is in her best interest to marry him as they share the same dream, that is to rule Goryeo. However she is able to quickly point out the flaws in his plan and that it would no be in her best interest as she will not be his first wife (which would put her in the same situation her mother is in). She challenges Yo and this highlights that Yeon Hwa is smart and quick on her feet.

WOOK

Early in Ep 7 she talks to Wook about finding him another match for the benefit for their family (This is not in all the versions but I think it should be cause it's rather important to her character development as well as further insight into her character). We see that she has a fear of being driven out of the palace again and wants Wook to go into another political marriage. She even says "Whether it's an arranged marriage or I'm sold off, I will not enter a marriage that does not help you." This is of course the complete opposite of what she said 2 episodes a go and shows that her desire power is becoming stronger. If it means she can be on top she will do whatever it takes. Looks like she's become both blinded and driven by power due to fear.

No love just politics.

I think she is a rather compelling character and someone I will keep my eye on in the future. Her character (like I have also mentioned before) is very much like Yo. I do not like either of them yet they intrigue me as they add another dark and mysterious layer to the story. I realised after re-watching her parts that she is looking out  for Wook but ultimately it is for her benefit. Furthermore, the constant changes and events which occur cause her to be more focused on her final goal. She is fearless and headstrong and I love that there are female characters like that in the series it's just sad to see that she is doing this for all the wrong reasons. She's desperate.

 

Things which I look forward to seeing:

1. What relationship she will end up sharing with So. Although I hate the idea of them being together I want to know what may end up bringing them together (if it were to follow the course of history)

2. The development of her relationship with Yo. Two peas in a pod.

3. How she will fall. All villains have their downfall and I want to know how hers unfolds.

I'm sorry this wasn't a very good analysis. I feel like I'm lacking in some areas but I shall work hard and hopefully improve. I just wanted to give my thoughts on this character as I found her rather interesting. Although she is not mysterious her actions and the way she acts are very notable. Thank you to all those who made it through this long post. I think I want to do more character analysis on other supporting roles so feel free to let me know if you want me to talk about my thoughts on another character. 

Thanks again for reading! Lots of love 

from bebebisous33:

I really loved your very good analysis about Yeon Hwa.  I agree with you that her character is much more complex than she appears first. Yes, she is using her brother to get what she wants that's why Wang So's description really fits her as well: "You can't trust anyone, especially the one close to you". Yeon Hwa is a more cold-hearted and level-headed person than her brother and even Wang So in my opinion. I can't forget the scene, when Yeon Hwa, her mother and lady Hae met Queen Yoo and at the end, lady Hae took her hand in order to comfort her. Wook's wife knew exactly what Yeon Hwa was feeling: upset and mad. However, Yeon Hwa pushed the hand away showing that she doesn't care about empathy and feelings. Wang So is in that matter different. However, she is not cold-hearted and evil like Yo because she felt sorry for Wang So's humiliation. She is able to feel empathy. Yet her calculative nature makes her less emotional and sensitive. She is so different from Wang So because despise his cold and distant behaviour, he is the exact opposite: very emotional.

Just like him, she had a traumatic experience and I guess, she suffered much more than her brother, since she is a woman and as such, her status is much lower. Actually, she is a little different from Wang So and Hae Soo. She thinks, she needs someone to save herself, so as such she is trying to relying on someone. On the other hand she is looking for someone who will need her as well so that the relationship is more equal.

Finally, that explains why she is jealous of Hae Soo 

MOD EDIT: PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE IMAGES

because Yeon Hwa had thought, if she could show interest towards Wang So, he would come close to her so that she could manipulate him and turn him into a human. Yet "showing interest" (an expression she used herself) is not the same than showing care and affection therefore she misjudged Wang So's personality. She never thought, he could have feelings as he seems to be so calm and level-headed. Secondly, when she mentioned "turn him into a human", she had something else in her mind: the human should behave exactly like her: ambitious, selfish, ready to defend his Queen, cold-hearted and calculating. Striking is that Wang So is right now transforming himself, he is turning into a human, but a different kind: someone who is more honest, sensitive to others, less selfish, less brutal and able to socialise. So her jealousy towards Hae Soo doesn't come from her heart, I mean by it that she is not really competing for Wang So's affections as such. It is just that Hae Soo is ruining Yeon hwa's plan, as she can't have any influence on Wang So. Her plan was to get a hold of Wang So, influence him so that she could get what she wants, but with Hae Soo by his side, it makes it impossible. This also elucidates why Yeon Hwa is so eager to get rid of Hae Soo after the singing. She doesn't want her to have more influence on Wang So and the other princes because she needs a relative to achieve her goal.

from chiuu nyuu:

The princess is definitely a intriguing character. Loved both of your reflections and I mostly agree! But I differ in one point: I still do not think that YH wants to use/manipulate SO to her advantage. Yes, she wants to change him but more so that he is accepted by society and not for her own selfish gain (yet). It makes YH sad that SO is marginalized thats why she wants to change him and not accept him as he is, hence what @briseissaid. 

I'd rather think that SO is her weak point!! She is manipulative, calm and collected but when it's about SO she has to try hard not to reveal herself. I'm sure we will soon see what stupid things she will do just to be next to him.

Let's face it, yes she is an evil snooty richard simmons resulting from her shitty personality combined with her past and precarious/low position but she is still a human with feelings. 

From Kilovekyo

I would say villain on SHR drama was Yeon Hwa. Both Wang So and Hae Soo has through suffering life since Yeon Hwa initiate and manipulate situation, which made Hae Soo served the poison tea. Then Hae Soo got torture, also Lady Oh sacrifice her life to save Hae Soo. Because of that situation, it made Wang So and Hae Soo separate. Wang So was determined for duty then Hae Soo move from damiwon as laundry maid, which she got mock by her friends.

Yeon Hwa made Wook can't reach his love to Hae Soo. She's made Wook become a bad person too, how Wook become close with Yoo. After Yoo come back, he brought dead to Eun and Seondeok. Once again Wang So and Hae Soo should be separated for 2 years. After many things happened, this bring Wang So to take the throne and make him back to loneliness. Yeon Hwa succeed to make herself as Queen, and how evil she order Wook to tell their past relationship, Wang So become angry to Hae Soo. This too sad... even Yeon Hwa live  as queen without love from Gwangjong but our beloved Wang So and Hae Soo can't be together for long timee....  Yeon Hwa such a true villain, she can use cruel way and any person to achieve her goal.

From raindropsfallingup

Princess Yeonhwa: The girl who dreams to rise above

“Look like the innocent flower, 
But be the serpent under it.”

–Macbeth, Shakespeare 

Man, I’ll tell you this now–long before Moon Lovers started, I was deeply, deeply interested in Princess Yeonhwa’s character. Knowing her history, the daughter of Taejo, and being future Queen Daemok, wife and consort to King Gwangjong (Wang So), I was curious as to how her character would play out. 

I actually thought that she would already be married to Wang So when the drama started out, because they all got married so young in Goryeo (and Wook was already married, and he’s the same age as So), but I’m glad that the drama is choosing to show more of Princess Yeonhwa before her marriage (and also So) and I think it’ll be greatly interesting to see how her path continues down. 

I adore female characters who have ambition. And I love Yeonhwa for wanting to rise above her brothers–the princes–and the Emperor himself. #usurpthepower #princessyeonhwaforEmperor943AD #SLYTHERIN

Princess Yeonhwa was introduced as a King-Maker, a genius above the emperor. And man, this girl’s got her eyes set on the throne, and then some.

Let’s take a look at her promotional material first. 

“I will become the Empress. If not me, then who will protect His Majesty?” 

(The word “페하” is used; direct translation of how you address the Emperor in a formal way; also “His Majesty.” But who exactly is she talking about? I would assume So, because he’s the only way that she can become the Empress.) 

I think many people worry that Yeonhwa will be reduced to a “bitchy second female lead” and I’d be lying if I wasn’t worried about that myself. Following Lady Hae’s death, I feel that she sort of disappeared from the narrative–but I’m glad that she came back with the rain festival, and with the past few episodes, I’m also greatly happy to see that she’s getting more screentime and seeing her character development and set things into motion. I hope the writers continue down this path. She’s got so much potential. She’s also the closest character to being a second female lead, but even then, that’s a bit of a stretch because there are so many other characters she has to share the spotlight with. 

On her character description, which I’ll loosely translate:

You tried to tie me down through marriage, and so, I will become Goryeo’s owner through marriage. 

The daughter born between Taejo and Queen Hwangbo, who receives her father’s love the most. Fitting to her status, she possesses class and beauty, but she’s also that much obsessed/fixated on her position. Being born a woman, she laments over the fact she cannot rise to the throne. Therefore, she wishes to become the genius above the emperor, a king-maker. She despises Hae Soo, who doesn’t understand how the palace works and has good fortune and love. Because for Yeonhwa, marriage wasn’t about love, it was a matter between life and death. 

Now the first and last last part are both interesting. While Hae Soo can’t control why her fate and wonders why she ended up in such a place as Goryeo, she still finds love. She finds love, and she can choose who she loves–whether it’s Wook or So. But for Yeonhwa, who is a princess, she doesn’t have the sort of control. Thus marriage is also a double-edged sword. Depending on who Yeonhwa marries, it could also harm her. She says they tried to restrain her through marriage, but Yeonhwa isn’t the type to lie low. No matter where she is, she’ll fight for what she wants. 

While she tells So and Yo that she wants a man who cherishes her (I’m not exactly sure if she’s even speaking the truth in the scene because she’s a woman who uses her words to manipulate those around her, along with her beautiful smiles), she will ultimately not have a choice in terms of love. Her marriage is a matter of life and death. 

Which is why it makes her marriage to So a very interesting one. No doubt, it’ll be a political marriage. As people have pointed out, Hae Soo wouldn’t quite have strong political ties as a wife or a queen, and her body is scarred (thus she cannot become a bride of the Emperor, but this rule could be changed or looped out of in the future). The Hae clan is quite a powerful family but they don’t really seemed to be concerned with her–so Soo is pretty much on her own. Yeonhwa has hinted at the possibility of marriage with Yo, who also dreams of becoming the Emperor of Goryeo. It’s not the ideal marriage she wants, and she wouldn’t become queen because he already has another official wife, she still is willing to use him to gain power. 

However, with Yeonhwa wanting to set her brother up to the throne and turn him into an Emperor, she may turn her back on Yo at the drop of a hat. Of course, if her brother becomes the Emperor, she won’t become the queen… but she’ll have protected her family and gain a significant amount of power that she wants. 

But following history, we know that Yo won’t last on his throne, and Gwangjong (Wang So) follows right after him as Emperor. I have a sickening feeling in my stomach that there’s a strong chance that Wook maydie. It would explain as to why Yeonhwa may choose So in the end, as a way to survive. A matter of life and death, remember? 

Yeonhwa is also deeply interested in So, perhaps romantically… but perhaps not. I think for her, it’s not so much about love, but she’s interested in the idea of So. She tells Yo: “Sometimes I think it’d be fun to make a man out of a beast.” While Yeonhwa originally helps So in treating his injuries, I think she also thinks of him as someone she can use. (Conversely, I don’t think So is in the state of being where he sees people as pawns; he’s still learning how the palace works and how the people within it operate–which is why he struggles deeply with his mother, who is always playing games). Because in the end, Yeonhwa was also horrified at So’s face. Which is where the divide between Yeonhwa and Hae Soo occurs for So. Soo has seen the truth of So, beyond the scar, but Yeonhwa has merely tapped the surface (though she may divide to dig in deeper in the future). 

I don’t think Yeonhwa and So would make for a bad couple; they don’t hate each other, and they may get along well. Of course, if Soo gets in between them, then that’s where things may fall apart. But Yeonhwa will still be a queen, even if Hae Soo is there (Lady Oh/Queen Yoo parallels, anyone?) I still think it’s a darn shame that Yeonhwa and Soo can’t be friends–I’m so tired of seeing women being pitted against each other. BECAUSE GUESS WHAT, KOREA! NOT ALL WOMEN ARE OUT TO DESTROY ONE ANOTHER! 

Being the Slytherin she is, Yeonhwa is deeply invested in protecting her family. She greatly fears that the other clans will retaliate against her clan, and she already knows that compared to the Yoo family, their family has no power. Queen Yoo drove out her mother, her brother and her–it’s an act that Yeonhwa cannot forgive and forget. But in order to make her brother the emperor, Yeonhwa is ready to ally with Queen Yoo to gain that power. She can set aside her differences to get what she wants. Yeonhwa is cunning, sly, and resourceful.

But she’s still young. She played with fire, but I think the last few episodes showed that Queen Yoo has been playing this game for longer, and Yeonhwa is still on the weaker side. Queen Yoo, although she helps Yeonhwa, she would be willing to through Yeonhwa away to protect what’s hers. And I think Yeonhwa realizes that. That’s why she steps up to “drink the poison,” following So. She’s a fast learner, and I don’t doubt that she could easily surpass Queen Yoo one day. 

I really hope that Yeonhwa doesn’t become a character that is simply evil. She’s so much more than that. She’s a princess, she will be a queen, she will be one of the ones who survives the bloodshed that will inevitably come after Taejo’s death. She may be cruel or mean. She’s also fixated on her status and the rules. She’s had years of practicing her smile, using it as a weapon, and using her words to manipulate those around her. Taejo probably doesn’t even know that she’s got so much ambition inside of her, burning deeply. She is a flower, but a deadly one. She’s not to be taken lightly. Power is important to her, because she wants to her protect herself and her family. And I understand that, and that is why I find her to be a compelling character. 

This is also where I see similarities between her and Soo, because I think they both have people to protect. But Soo is kind and wants to be helpful to everyone around her, but Yeonhwa wasn’t raised that way–she’s seen the cruelty and ruthlessness in the palace–and she doesn’t have that luxury. The palace is a place where you can trust no one, and a place where you have doubt those closest to you. 

And so, while the princes grapple for the throne in their bloodshed, Yeonhwa will play her game slowly, using her power (no matter how limited it is as a princess) and using men in her family as much as she can to get what she wants–and she’ll succeed. 

 

 

 

 

On 8/1/2017 at 6:14 AM, summer2017 said:

On 8/1/2017 at 6:14 AM, summer2017 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

On reading your Evilness List, I just noticed YH's true evilness to psychopathy level. Considering how Eun sees/respects her as a sister, yet she did not hesitate to tell Yo of Eun's hiding place, knowing very well that this will kill him. There's no remorse in her that she summons the death on her most benign brother. At least, Wook showed sadness on Eun's death and WWon did not have direct connection to Eun's death. And there she is.. still calculating and calculating where should she put her investment on. So inhumane.

by Ainee ETP

Thoughts on Yeon Hwa page 1382

 

Yeonhwa / Wook

On 8/1/2017 at 6:23 AM, summer2017 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

FROM: penelop3 i like your ranking  of evilness...your comments had my laughing  too, specially what you wrote for YH ...the only change I would make would be to put W Wook ahead of W Won, because in my mind whomever has the twisted brain to elaborate such plan is far guiltier than the person carrying out the deed , with all things consider of course....i need to take into account  the situations at play....and consider everything....so that is not to say that whomever thought of the plan is always the guiltier party... but in the way all things play out.... in the drama ..and keep playing out...WW is guiltier than Won. he designed the plan and won was  the designated  messenger ...he hired a poor third party, who's only bad trait is to have a bad decision making character...whom i pressume, out of love ,has chosen the wrong actions for the wrong reasons...something that HS never did for WW and i admire her  for that...she did not compromise her character for him...in my mind the list goes as follow....

evil queen yoo,WW,YH( i know she wants to free herself from the pressures of a political marriage, but she is too ambitious and she did sacrifice  his brother happiness, morale, and an innocent lives ...indirectly killing lady oh,EU,and SD and had the intension of getting rid of HS ..she was just not as successful ..and who knows what she will do in the future ....on second though she does sound far more terrible than her brother , but i will place her behind him ,just because he is more ruthless in his nature when orchestrating the...get rid of you plan ) then is WY ( for me intentions do count, whether you are successful or not... that is another thing...he was never compassionate...he has a predisposition of trying to kill people without getting his hands dirty...getting rid of the monks...kill taejo plan...not doing anything for Mo and finally killing EU...the last one just breaks him ) and Wang won( he is just a party pleaser...navigating the currents of whomever seems to have the upper hand...i don't doubt he works with a personal agenda at play but for the most part he is just the turkey to my sandwich, in between product  .... he is scumbag.. am i even allow to type that...sorry if i offended anyone ..then CH ...she is just a person with poor character and did something very wrong out of fondness for someone whom doesn't even consider her a person....girl bad decision...i had fun writing this ...lets keep commenting  chingus

 

From may6 page 1383

Spoiler

 

From raindropsfallingup

Princess Yeonhwa: The girl who dreams to rise above

“Look like the innocent flower, 
But be the serpent under it.”

–Macbeth, Shakespeare 

Man, I’ll tell you this now–long before Moon Lovers started, I was deeply, deeply interested in Princess Yeonhwa’s character. Knowing her history, the daughter of Taejo, and being future Queen Daemok, wife and consort to King Gwangjong (Wang So), I was curious as to how her character would play out. 

I actually thought that she would already be married to Wang So when the drama started out, because they all got married so young in Goryeo (and Wook was already married, and he’s the same age as So), but I’m glad that the drama is choosing to show more of Princess Yeonhwa before her marriage (and also So) and I think it’ll be greatly interesting to see how her path continues down. 

I adore female characters who have ambition. And I love Yeonhwa for wanting to rise above her brothers–the princes–and the Emperor himself. #usurpthepower #princessyeonhwaforEmperor943AD #SLYTHERIN

Princess Yeonhwa was introduced as a King-Maker, a genius above the emperor. And man, this girl’s got her eyes set on the throne, and then some.

Let’s take a look at her promotional material first. 

“I will become the Empress. If not me, then who will protect His Majesty?” 

(The word “페하” is used; direct translation of how you address the Emperor in a formal way; also “His Majesty.” But who exactly is she talking about? I would assume So, because he’s the only way that she can become the Empress.) 

I think many people worry that Yeonhwa will be reduced to a “bitchy second female lead” and I’d be lying if I wasn’t worried about that myself. Following Lady Hae’s death, I feel that she sort of disappeared from the narrative–but I’m glad that she came back with the rain festival, and with the past few episodes, I’m also greatly happy to see that she’s getting more screentime and seeing her character development and set things into motion. I hope the writers continue down this path. She’s got so much potential. She’s also the closest character to being a second female lead, but even then, that’s a bit of a stretch because there are so many other characters she has to share the spotlight with. 

On her character description, which I’ll loosely translate:

You tried to tie me down through marriage, and so, I will become Goryeo’s owner through marriage. 

The daughter born between Taejo and Queen Hwangbo, who receives her father’s love the most. Fitting to her status, she possesses class and beauty, but she’s also that much obsessed/fixated on her position. Being born a woman, she laments over the fact she cannot rise to the throne. Therefore, she wishes to become the genius above the emperor, a king-maker. She despises Hae Soo, who doesn’t understand how the palace works and has good fortune and love. Because for Yeonhwa, marriage wasn’t about love, it was a matter between life and death. 

Now the first and last last part are both interesting. While Hae Soo can’t control why her fate and wonders why she ended up in such a place as Goryeo, she still finds love. She finds love, and she can choose who she loves–whether it’s Wook or So. But for Yeonhwa, who is a princess, she doesn’t have the sort of control. Thus marriage is also a double-edged sword. Depending on who Yeonhwa marries, it could also harm her. She says they tried to restrain her through marriage, but Yeonhwa isn’t the type to lie low. No matter where she is, she’ll fight for what she wants. 

While she tells So and Yo that she wants a man who cherishes her (I’m not exactly sure if she’s even speaking the truth in the scene because she’s a woman who uses her words to manipulate those around her, along with her beautiful smiles), she will ultimately not have a choice in terms of love. Her marriage is a matter of life and death. 

Which is why it makes her marriage to So a very interesting one. No doubt, it’ll be a political marriage. As people have pointed out, Hae Soo wouldn’t quite have strong political ties as a wife or a queen, and her body is scarred (thus she cannot become a bride of the Emperor, but this rule could be changed or looped out of in the future). The Hae clan is quite a powerful family but they don’t really seemed to be concerned with her–so Soo is pretty much on her own. Yeonhwa has hinted at the possibility of marriage with Yo, who also dreams of becoming the Emperor of Goryeo. It’s not the ideal marriage she wants, and she wouldn’t become queen because he already has another official wife, she still is willing to use him to gain power. 

However, with Yeonhwa wanting to set her brother up to the throne and turn him into an Emperor, she may turn her back on Yo at the drop of a hat. Of course, if her brother becomes the Emperor, she won’t become the queen… but she’ll have protected her family and gain a significant amount of power that she wants. 

But following history, we know that Yo won’t last on his throne, and Gwangjong (Wang So) follows right after him as Emperor. I have a sickening feeling in my stomach that there’s a strong chance that Wook maydie. It would explain as to why Yeonhwa may choose So in the end, as a way to survive. A matter of life and death, remember? 

Yeonhwa is also deeply interested in So, perhaps romantically… but perhaps not. I think for her, it’s not so much about love, but she’s interested in the idea of So. She tells Yo: “Sometimes I think it’d be fun to make a man out of a beast.” While Yeonhwa originally helps So in treating his injuries, I think she also thinks of him as someone she can use. (Conversely, I don’t think So is in the state of being where he sees people as pawns; he’s still learning how the palace works and how the people within it operate–which is why he struggles deeply with his mother, who is always playing games). Because in the end, Yeonhwa was also horrified at So’s face. Which is where the divide between Yeonhwa and Hae Soo occurs for So. Soo has seen the truth of So, beyond the scar, but Yeonhwa has merely tapped the surface (though she may divide to dig in deeper in the future). 

I don’t think Yeonhwa and So would make for a bad couple; they don’t hate each other, and they may get along well. Of course, if Soo gets in between them, then that’s where things may fall apart. But Yeonhwa will still be a queen, even if Hae Soo is there (Lady Oh/Queen Yoo parallels, anyone?) I still think it’s a darn shame that Yeonhwa and Soo can’t be friends–I’m so tired of seeing women being pitted against each other. BECAUSE GUESS WHAT, KOREA! NOT ALL WOMEN ARE OUT TO DESTROY ONE ANOTHER! 

Being the Slytherin she is, Yeonhwa is deeply invested in protecting her family. She greatly fears that the other clans will retaliate against her clan, and she already knows that compared to the Yoo family, their family has no power. Queen Yoo drove out her mother, her brother and her–it’s an act that Yeonhwa cannot forgive and forget. But in order to make her brother the emperor, Yeonhwa is ready to ally with Queen Yoo to gain that power. She can set aside her differences to get what she wants. Yeonhwa is cunning, sly, and resourceful.

But she’s still young. She played with fire, but I think the last few episodes showed that Queen Yoo has been playing this game for longer, and Yeonhwa is still on the weaker side. Queen Yoo, although she helps Yeonhwa, she would be willing to through Yeonhwa away to protect what’s hers. And I think Yeonhwa realizes that. That’s why she steps up to “drink the poison,” following So. She’s a fast learner, and I don’t doubt that she could easily surpass Queen Yoo one day. 

I really hope that Yeonhwa doesn’t become a character that is simply evil. She’s so much more than that. She’s a princess, she will be a queen, she will be one of the ones who survives the bloodshed that will inevitably come after Taejo’s death. She may be cruel or mean. She’s also fixated on her status and the rules. She’s had years of practicing her smile, using it as a weapon, and using her words to manipulate those around her. Taejo probably doesn’t even know that she’s got so much ambition inside of her, burning deeply. She is a flower, but a deadly one. She’s not to be taken lightly. Power is important to her, because she wants to her protect herself and her family. And I understand that, and that is why I find her to be a compelling character. 

This is also where I see similarities between her and Soo, because I think they both have people to protect. But Soo is kind and wants to be helpful to everyone around her, but Yeonhwa wasn’t raised that way–she’s seen the cruelty and ruthlessness in the palace–and she doesn’t have that luxury. The palace is a place where you can trust no one, and a place where you have doubt those closest to you. 

And so, while the princes grapple for the throne in their bloodshed, Yeonhwa will play her game slowly, using her power (no matter how limited it is as a princess) and using men in her family as much as she can to get what she wants–and she’ll succeed. 

 

 

So let's keep the info we're pulling all together. Here's what both I and @summer2017 pulled so far. As we pull more info, PLEASE QUOTE THIS POST so that all the compilations are together.

@silentwind  I had suggested Wook earlier because of the reasons you mentioned.

So for everyone that's participating thus far, @chi13lou @summer2017 @ktcjdrama @antoniaclamens and silentwind ( @NerinaC @Siracusa @Desvlo @sublimelyheureuse @q4q4...let me know chingu if any of you have time to lend a hand. Perhaps the more of us there are, the smaller the tasks can be for each, and the faster we can get to submission).

If any of you have reviewed Team W's prior submissions, their content is always comprehensive...something the judges like. As such, I think we should tackle all 4 -- Yoo, Yo, Wook and Yeonhwa. We already know Yoo and Yo are traditional, classic 2-dimensional villains, so perhaps they should be the first ones mentioned in our submission. Wook and Yeonhwa are more complex...the former more than the latter. As such, perhaps we should end on a strong note with Wook. He, out of the 4, will have the most content to write about.

Consider this the beginning of our strategy discussions. Once we identify everyone who is participating in this final round, we can take the discussion into PM. Arasso?  

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

7 hours ago, summer2017 said:

Ok let's try to pull out as much info as possible first then we can further refine the info. 

  Reveal hidden contents

I was wondering if we can work on another platform like Instagram group chat.

 

Spoiler

 

@ktcjdrama and I were discussing this as well. We'll be working in the Soompi PM after we've doled out assignments. It will make submission easier when we're ready. 

 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

59 minutes ago, ktcjdrama said:

Hahahaa, looks like we've got more villains or evil people than we initially thought....

 

@ktcjdrama @summer2017 I am very encouraged because we've pulled up a lot of information to start with. I have to start working now, but will be back after work to continue. If you have, keep going chingu. This is a great start to the final round. '

Okay...before I go, will start to call people to our aid. @silentwind (thank you so very much for offering to help!), @NerinaC @KdramaSwimmer @Silvermaine @Siracusa @q4q4 @WH @sublimelyheureuse @kdramawriter  @violet90 @bingewatcherinsomniac @freckledcontessa  @chi13lou  Apologies to everyone else and hope no one misunderstands if I'm not calling on them...the chingu I've just mentioned are top of mind because they either offered help, or I came across their names again as I've been looking through the thread. If you'd like to help, please step forward. Some of our mods would be obvious choices (including our captain), but unfortunately, they're unable to help us with this.   @Desvlo  I think you've done some writing too, right?

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Just now, ktcjdrama said:

I have copied pasted these on Word, so it will be easier to access when compiling and editing later. Will do the same for new entries. How did you find these old post so fast?

 

I wanted to get a jump on these so I've just done random searching. We have a lot of good material already here. Might as well make good use of it. 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Thoughts on Wook:

Spoiler

 

On 10/7/2016 at 7:08 AM, 40somethingahjumma said:

I don't think it's harsh at all and I, from my interactions with women who have left controlling and/or abusive relationships, can see a ring of truth in what you're saying. It's not that I think Su and Uk had an abusive relationship... not at all... but I agree that Su wants to think the best of people even when faced with evidence to the contrary. That worked well with So... because the core of who he was largely misunderstood by everyone and he was trying to belong somewhere. In this instance her desire to help him did bring out the best in him. However, her do-gooding is a double-edged sword as we saw in Ep. 10 and 11, as it was used against her to implicate her in a capital crime.

I believe she stuck it out to the very end with Uk for two reasons. Firstly, it was important for her to believe that their romance wasn't a lie, that somehow she was some kind of idiot to believe that she was loved. On top of all that she had suffered from Lady O's death and the attempted poisoning of the CP, it would be even more devastating for her to realise that she had given her heart to a man who didn't even love her even just a tad. I think it gave her some comfort to know that he did love her in spite of not delivering at all. Secondly, I think it also goes to the issue of judgement. Was she so wrong about a man who seemed to all intents and purposes, the perfect guy? I can't imagine how earth-shattering it must be to face the fact that the man you gave your heart to wasn't just timid about coming forward to plead your case but that he might be a first class blackguard.  

The fact that he couldn't deliver on even the most simple promises should have set off alarm bells. But of course Su wants to think the best of people. And she's more than willing to give them chance after chance. The fundamental problem was that Su really didn't know Uk that well. All those stolen moments they shared seemed few and far between. In the end, it was the image more than the man that took her fancy. Or the possibility of what this man could offer her.

The part that I think was "controlling" was Uk saying that he did it all for her sake. I'm not sure about anyone else, but it felt a lot like emotional blackmail to me. Telling her that he embarked on the road to hell and throne grabbing because he was too powerless to protect her... puts the onus on her to support him and it gives him a cover for his ambitions. This in turns gives him justification for doing all kinds of heinous things because in his mind, he's only doing it all to protect Su. Still, Uk continues to see himself as the victim in all of this and uses his "victimhood" to justify his ambition to get on board the game of thrones.

That's why I've been saying that we don't really need to feel that sorry for him. He's a guy who doesn't like to get his hands dirty so he piggybacks on others and what they're doing so he doesn't have to look like the bad guy. He's very clever about it but that kind of MO has limitations. That's why he will never be king and even on the off chance that he does... he won't be a good one. Plotting and scheming will only get you so far. To rule or govern, you actually have to do something and take responsibility for it.

 

I haven't read Candide in years... not since I completed my undergrad studies. But I also remember it as a satire on Utopianism. As I've said on a number of occasions, before the death of Lady O, Su was an unerring optimist. She was wide-eyed about living in the palace thinking that she could go around helping people with happy abandon and not bring negative attention to herself. But yeah, she was mugged by reality in a big way. 

I think it was @liddi who said that we were somehow strong-armed into seeing Uk's negative side. I can imagine someone taking that position if you thought that Uk was not such a bad guy and now suddenly he's scheming and "prioritizing". I guess for me, there were always disturbing tendencies in his personality from Day 2 so I'm not as taken aback by the "prioritizing". That self-centredness, that indecision, that lack of action... they were all pointing to something. All he needed was the right trigger to put him on the present path... and he found it.

ML being a K drama... well, they do love their villains to be villains. 

Incidentally Uk being ambitious doesn't bother me but really he's such a weasel about it. The man can't even be open about it like Yeon Hwa or Yo. It is fascinating that he wants to do bad things behind the scenes and come up smelling like roses... but really who is he kidding?

(Good grief, how did I manage to write another essay again? I don't mean to and they just sort of happen)

From Solelurking:

I agree with you totally.

Wook's step is always a careful analyzed one. He successfully restrain his instinct when it come to Soo for now. Taking step forward but then freeze as he remember what he will lose. But I don't know in the future. It seems to me he slowly losing his mind when it comes to Soo. He even kind of scold his wife at dinner in last night ep. Madam Hae looked a bit taken back. It's the first time perfect prince doing this, I guess. Imagine the pain and joy he might have when he saw Soo walking trough that door. But he choose to walked away. I think because he knows to be in the same place with Soo without touching her is a pain or he need time to think and gather his thoughts again. My guess it's both. Hehehe. 

WS in the other hand is really a soft hearted kind of person. He can bear to think Soo get beating because she wants to give back the hair pin. It's not necessarily he falling for Soo at this poin. But he is fond of her and begin to see her as his people (hence the claim she's mine). As we all know So is very protective of his people  and he is living outside the palace norm all his life so he don't really care about hierarchy. I think rather than falling so hard so fast like Wook, So and Soo will begin their journey as a friend first. 

Btw I'm a Wook's fan so if I blabber too much about him, ignore me. Nice to meet you. 

 

From theseaasleep:

I was less annoyed with Wook about his slow reaction than I was with his deliberate psychological undercutting of So, a thing that completely bewildered and hurt So because he defused the situation yet here he was being kicked yet again. Wook's phrasing was chosen for maximum damage to both discourage So and remind him of his place, which is nowhere. It had no root except in jealousy and (self-directed) anger unlike his slow reaction that was bound up in a lot of hierarchical stuff.

I compare it to the scene where we met the flower princes for the first time. 3rd Prince (one day I'll remember his name and that's the day he'll die, lol) was about to hit a servant for spilling wine on him but Wook *immediately* halts/distracts his brother and the servant is given a reprieve. It was nothing for Wook to instantly interfere because there was a clear-cut way to handle it without having the higher rank/his brother lose face to the lower rank/the servant. This is not the case between Soo and Wook's sister (I will learn her name, someday). Not disciplining a servant could be seen as magnanimous but with his sister, Wook would be undercutting her authority and social ranking for a social "inferior". This leaves Wook caught between upholding social/cultural norms and the right thing because choosing Soo in this instance runs a bit deeper than the matter of his feelings. Soo is someone who 1) is righteous enough to take a beating in place of her servant and 2) is under his household's protection. No wonder the perfect Prince who everyone thinks should be the Crown Prince freezes, his actions stuttered. He instinctively moves forward but deliberately stops himself and it takes a couple of strikes before he makes a serious move to stop it. This isn't the only time he's been slow to react when Soo has tangled with a social "better" - there was also her fight with Eun. The fight was already in session by the time he arrived and everyone watching was amused or surprised but also knew her fate was sealed the moment she laid hands on a Prince. Only So bothered to stop her as soon as he saw the situation because it was better to do something than nothing. We're likely to repeat this theme throughout the drama: Wook's inaction versus So's action which will likely lead to a situation where Wook overreacts to compensate.

Now for So, who arrives later than everyone else, the decision is easier because he's been set outside of society for all his life. He quickly assesses the situation, understands the costs of stopping Wook's sister and still chooses to do so. Why? Probably partially because societal/cultural norms have done him few favors in his life. Protecting the Princess's pride is not (should not be) worth more than protecting a person from being beaten over a mistake/misunderstanding. So doesn't completely throw away the norms because he does explicitly apologize to the Princess afterwards. The other reason to stop it is he's growing to like this strange Soo girl and while it's not at the depth of Wook yet, it is enough for him to put himself out there.

I'm not sure how much Wook stood to "lose" if he had stepped in sooner and really, he could have stopped it before it all began because nearly all the Princes were there long before Soo exchanged herself for her servant. On the surface, it doesn't seem as if So loses too much because he's already on the outs but Wook's sister is one of the very few people who seem genuinely on his side. Disrespecting her could cost him a rare ally and friend (?), so he might have less face to lose but more to lose personally. My take on the dynamics of the situation as I await the next episode.

From Unnisarah:

 agree with both of my chingu's @theseasasleep and @solelylurking  So had nothing to lose and just wanted to clear things up befor eit got worst. Wook took So's help as a declaration of war. Wook sister has some kind of vendetta againd Hae Soo becuase she suspects somethin is going on Hae Soo and her bother. I think what bothers her is the fact that Hae Soo is not following the norm of the Palace life.     She is not actling like the Lady she is supposed to be. Hae Soo almost got her brother hurt because he went after her when he hard she was in danger. When he took his anger out on So, he lost an ally because So will never become his person. Wook only chose to let him stay in his home so So can become his person. We all saw some scenes where Wook was helping So clean up after killing all those people. Wook has always had his eyes on the throne because that is what his mother expected him to do, Both Wook and his Sister were taught to be perfect, smart and do what is right so their family can look good. His sister has never liked his wife or had any respecect for her. SHe is like so ready to get rid of that woman because she think he wasn't good enough for her brother. I believe that Wook has always done what is expected of him so that he has the perfect image. Everything he did was seen by the servants , his brothers, his cousin in law but he has never warmed up to her at all. I don't he even tried to warm up to her.

From Shiraru:

I juuuuust watched this episode with suuubs, wohooooo~~~ and I think this is my favorite episode so far.

Wang So's mother is a terrible human...how can she say that when clearly Wang So is doing everything for her not to get caught?? I'm curious as how can she hate him so much, what did he do that caused her to hate him to oblivion like that?? She didn't have any problem loving Wang Yo and Wang Jung, so...why?

I love, love, looooove Haesoo's antics, she definitely brings some color to the dull and serious palace life. I particularly laughed out loud on the forest scene because Haesoo cursed when she went full ahead to attack the thugs. I bet all the thugs don't know that they are being cursed because maybe those cursing word haven't been invented yet in that era, hahhaaa...  Also, when she hugged Wang Jung like a sister to a brother, Wang So and Wang Wook were sliiightly jealous, hahahaa...and I love when Wang Jung was like,"Haesoo...sister?", Wang So went,"Sister? *internal voice : WTF YOU CALL HER??*"

I agree with some of you that thought Wang Wook is not that perfect guy he displays, but you have to admit that he's so good at playing 'the good guy everyone admires'. I kinda feel that he's that overly protective and possessive guy if he gets a person he loves as his wife...it's evident on when Wang Wook confronts Wang So. Sure, he's showing much love and affection to Lady Hae too, but the difference is that he doesn't love her...even Lady Hae knows this. Imagine if he loves his wife, imagine if he gets Haesoo. Speaking of Lady Hae, I sincerely hope she gets healthier, even though maybe it's impossible at this point. Besides Chaeryung, she's the only female who's kind to Haesoo from the very start and treats Haesoo as her own daughter. Her feelings towards Haesoo is so pure and genuine, even though I think she noticed how Wang Wook is taking an interest on Haesoo. She's a character too good for the cruel world she's living in, I just want to wish happiness upon her.

Can't wait for the next episode, toniiiiight, toniiiiight~!

From lostmymusic and theseaasleep:

Wook's reaction to So...I don't blame him for that. Yes, it stemmed from jealousy but the entire episode had Wook struggling with his place in the system, his duty towards it all vs. what he really wants. The jabs at So was his the only way he could gain some control over the situation. Sure, the way he said it all did prick but what he said wasn't wrong either. The house is Wook's. Plus, So so boldly claimed the one person as "his person" Wook really wants to have but knows that he can no way have her without hurting some of his precious people along the way.

I agree on the theme of Soo's action vs. Wook's inaction. Idk much about the original story but I do have a feeling that Wook's decision to actively in involved in the fight for the throne will come from his building frustration of wanting to do something but being unable to and ultimately losing it. So is more free as you said. He is not bound by the hierarchical chains cuz all his life he was told repeatedly by actions and manners that he doesn't belong. Not once but twice in the epi Wook had to see Soo at risk and both the times it was So who ultimately helped her out..from the beatings as well as his timely entry when the goons surrounded them. Wook is mostly powerless and for now just wants to keep his world at peace. So he chooses to be on the sidelines as much as he can and try to help from there. He does it with quick comments to diffuse the situation and even silence as well because why would the man of the house step in the household manners when the one who is running the house is involved in the situation? Wook has a very strong internal conflict..add to that his powerlessness to try to fix it and we get what we got i.e. a petty jab at So which meant he doesn't belong.

As for So's apology to YeonHwa (the sister) I'm not reading it as deep as him not wanting to lose a possible ally. YH is just one of those rare people who care for So and So is the person who gives what he receives. This as well as that he has sense enough to deal with the situations cleanly. I think what Wook stood to lose had he stepped in sooner was that Soo's position would've weakened in the household that he gets undue favors from Wook and blah blah blah, you know how gossip works. Wook wants to protect Soo and he wouldn't like if he is the reason that she faces problems in the first place.

The brothers might be the same age but they are fundamentally two different people shaped by their birth and circumstances. While Soo brings out the human in So who is righteous and can be kind and shows that he is not made of rage as people make him to be, Wook ends up showing the helplessness that his position in the society has bestowed upon him. I find it all so interesting and look forward to how it all changes or amplifies in the future.

For the yellow highlight, there's going to be some agree to disagree here, hee. So is admittedly my bias so on a purely subjective level I don't like people taking pock shots at him. But putting that aside, objectively I agree with your point about his warning to So up to a point. My main problem was precisely how he said it as well as the why, which was to inflict maximum psychological damage not to honestly address a concern about the unlikelihood of So being permitted to pursue the women of his household. But as I said, it's an agree to disagree situation since you are granting him more leeway than me in this regard. 

For the bold, Wook isn't choosing the sidelines and diplomacy to keep his world at peace but to not call attention to him and his family because his mom has a plan to get him on the throne. Right now, I don't know how much of this is his ambition or her own but I like your theory about the tug-of-war action vs inaction that will grow between him and So will likely amp up his bid for the throne.

For the pink highlight, I'm not sure if you misunderstood me but I didn't mean that So's apology to Yeon Hwa (thank you, by the way  ) was calculated to salvage a relationship with an ally. Like you, I believe his apology was sincere because he is a person who cares especially for those who have shown care for him. My point about potentially losing Yeon Hwa as an ally if she took the disrespect to heart was me wondering aloud about the potential future costs of So's action vs. Wook's inaction. For example, while she might not hold So's action against him as I speculated, she most certainly will hold it against Soo if her glare is anything to go by; most decidedly a consequence of So's action.

As you say, Wook is bound by the duties placed upon him. If upholding appearances are his chains, then he would lose Soo with or without So's presence. Soo is not an appearance-bound girl, she doesn't hold still for facades. Even as she admonishes herself to be more unassuming for the sake of her host family when she sees something she deems wrong, she leaps to correct it. Her first instinct is to help and she obeys it. She could never quite share that tightly bound existence with him and that's putting aside issues of rank and status as well as the ambitions of his mother. So is much more of a rule-breaker, a rule-challenger because if he wasn't he'd be dead. I suspect as the drama goes on we will see both Soo and So defy rules and circumstance in increasingly clever or mature ways. Right now they are both like wild, loudly yapping puppies running headlong into the next fray.

From Lostmymusic:

Hahaha, I can't really argue the bias bit, can I? So IS love, who am I to deny that? I want him happy oh so much..but Wook tugs at my heartstrings as well. Basically, I'm glad I'm not Soo who has to choose one guy because I personally would never be able to do that xD I'm not saying what Wook did was right but given the circumstances it was certainly logical. None of the brothers are really that close to So to think about his position. Sure, Wook gives him a place to stay and admits to caring for him more than others cuz they were "born in the same year" but no one really sees So as a human prone to being emotionally hurt by the words of others. I do believe that his siblings take the "Wolf Dog" image of his as the only thing So is capable of. It sucks but I can't really blame them. Still..Wook cares for him more than his other brothers but Soo is such a touchy topic for Wook that he loses his diplomatic cool.

Whether we call it keeping world at peace or not wanting to call attention to his family...it basically means the same. Wook just wants to not be in the spotlight for any reason. Now whether its temporary because of his mother's wish to see him on the throne or permanent because he really CBA about the power dynamics..we don't know.

This isn't the last of YH's wrath that Soo would see. It's just the beginning. YH feelings for So are of the possessive kind. Unlike say Wook's wife who'd rather step down for her husband's happiness..YH would rather eliminate any threat that could come in between her and So. At least that's what I think. So has respect for YH and maybe he even is aware of her feelings for him. He doesn't dismiss YH which speaks much about the relationship that they share.

Ya know..I think Wook and Soo would've worked out had HaJin not taken over Soo. We may call her HaeSoo because that's what her name is in Goryeo era but technically, the real HaeSoo is dead. Maybe the show will take a different path but my theory is that HS and Wook had a silent kind of a love where they both knew they were attracted to each other but they didn't act on it. HS was originally a quiet girl...it's our Soo who has the spunk and is more interested in going out and about than staying put and keeping her head down. It's our Soo who has gotten this close to Wook that he is now visibly shaken. And our Soo and Wang Wook will never work out. As much as I get all the feels because goodness, the chemistry loaded with all the sexual tension is just. so. GOOD...I know logically it makes no sense for these two to work and like you said, it's primarily because of who Soo is as a person. Like I said before, I love it how Soo has feelings for Wook, feelings she knows are getting out of control despite her wanting not to...she won't act upon them cuz it's just so wrong. I don't know what will be the incident which would end all her feelings for Wook or HOW she'd fall for So who has lowkey starting falling for her. But what works in favor for Soo and So is that they are both outsiders who don't really fit in the established rules of the kingdom. I believe that is what will play a major part in bringing them closer...it has already started to do so.

From bebebisou33:

Honestly, noone is hating Wang Wook here, but yes, some of us (like me) criticised him. However just by doing this doesn't mean that we hate him. From critic to hate, there is a huge gap. Furthermore the world is not just black and white, just like Wang So. The latter might have been neglected and abused, yet he can be a dangerous and violent man. So Wang Wook might be a nice and well-mannered person, yet he is not that good either. 

The main reproach has been that he is too passive, when it comes to Hae Soo. People mentioned that the origin of his passivitiy is that he has much more responsabilities than Wang So, who was never been raised like him and has no family. Wang So has always been apart from social conventions, nonetheless this point doesn't justify Wang Wook's passivity, since we saw that Wang Wook can be decisive and very quick by making decisions. Let me give you one example:

When the king asked the princes about dethroning Mu, Wang Wook was the first to react and he was followed by the others. They were all put under pressure, he needed to think quickly and make sure that his family is safe. He was able to handle the situation pretty well. Later in the episode 4, when they were before the king again, Wang So confessed that he was the one who killed the monks and destroyed the temple.

What Wang So did was really dangerous, but Wang Wook supported Wang So by justifying Wang So's actions. As we can observe, Wang Wook has learnt to deal with pressure and to keep his family safe. So in my opinion, his situation doesn't justify his behaviour. Now back the main reproach: his passivity towards Hae Soo. He didn't stop the whipping, he didn't interrupt Baek Ah, when the latter was yelling at Hae Soo. He could have intervened here too by saying that he was the main culprit, but he never did. But in my opinion, he is not just passive towards Hae Soo, but also towards lady Hae. For the whole time he had been married, he never said anything about his feelings towards her so that lady Hae always thought, he never loved her. We all know, he did, even if it was a different love. His passivity is even more visible, when the prince wanted to tell his wife that he did love her, but he was stopped just before she died.

 

He accepted her decision, which he will regret later. As conclusion, he was also passive towards lady Hae. From my point of view, when it comes to love, Wang Wook is like paralysed. The other reason why I said, he is a nice guy, but not necessarly a good person is because he promised a lot of things to Hae Soo, but he was never able to keep his promises. He told her, she would never be treated like this again, yet we know, this is not true as he is unable to stop the arranged marriage. Lady Hae pushed him towards Hae Soo and he knew that therefore he wrote Hae Soo a poem and asked for an answer. She asked him to take a second wife, but he refused as he was afraid of it. Wang Wook is very intelligent, when it comes to survive at the court but when it comes to love, he is completely overwhelmed by his feelings so that he is scared of these. MAybe this can be explained by this way: he feels he is not controlling the situation or the relationship, when it comes to love. Therefore he keeps his feelings to himself so that the other has no idea that she has so much power over him. From my point of view, he would have kept Hae Soo like that, secure her feelings for him and nothing else in return, if lady Hae hadn't died. Wang So is the opposite: his feelings are what pushes him to act or react. He killed all these monks out of love for his mother, but it was a really dangerous move because he could have been blamed for the assassination of the Crown Prince. 

From Yourhighness:

All your examples on WW's passivity; court based i.e would not have lead to a lady's reputation being tarnished. WW is smart and he knew the risk and also what the outcome would have been when he spoke in front of the King. And regarding him not completing his sentence to Lady Hae. Either way he looses; if he had completed his sentence of loving her then people would have bashed him for lying as his last words to her. He on the other hand respected Lady Hae's wish, she knew what he was going to say and she didn't want him to lie to her. She didn't want his last words to be a lie so she stopped him. Halting dangerous situations with words while your brothers stand scared & silent and respecting someones last wish is not passivity.

And let's say WW had stopped YH from whipping HS, what would have happened then? HS's reputation in tatters, she would have been sent away, to live God knows what kind of life in Hae clan or used by other people to get to WW. Lady Hae hurt and in pain, a receiver of pity and taunts from people in the court and YH. YH insulted and turning more bitter and hurtful. He himself miserable, all because he went by his instincts and didn't think of the consequences. I won't even bother to think how the King and the Queen would have reacted.

Now I am not saying that WW is a gem who can do no wrong but he is always in a game of chess. Every move has consequences and a counter move. He has to think about everything. So is luckily not in that game yet because everybody still thinks of him as an outsider but he soon will be.

Also about him not keeping his promise..I doubt he foresaw this situation when he made it. No one makes a promise that they know they can't keep.

Anyway, I really don't want to keep on defending WW. I just want to enjoy the show and all the characters so I will just go back to skipping comments that I don't agree with. 

From Diana Blanche:

Let's give a little credit to the Queen Yoo. She's very proud of herself, she likes to shine and has no love in her heart. I don't think she really loves Wang Yo, either Wang Jeung. She loves their beauty in which she sees her own beauty reflected.

I want to see what she will do when Wang Yo will not be next to her to make her feel glowing. She likes to look down on others and her soul is full of hatred and jealousy... she hurt her child and then she despised him for her mistake... but she gave birth to the prince that stole our hearts, and if she would not have sent him away to forget her mistake, maybe now we'd be talking about So Yoo couple.

From Yourhighness:

Honestly, noone is hating Wang Wook here, but yes, some of us (like me) criticised him. However just by doing this doesn't mean that we hate him. From critic to hate, there is a huge gap. Furthermore the world is not just black and white, just like Wang So. The latter might have been neglected and abused, yet he can be a dangerous and violent man. So Wang Wook might be a nice and well-mannered person, yet he is not that good either. 

The main reproach has been that he is too passive, when it comes to Hae Soo. People mentioned that the origin of his passivitiy is that he has much more responsabilities than Wang So, who was never been raised like him and has no family. Wang So has always been apart from social conventions, nonetheless this point doesn't justify Wang Wook's passivity, since we saw that Wang Wook can be decisive and very quick by making decisions. Let me give you one example:

When the king asked the princes about dethroning Mu, Wang Wook was the first to react and he was followed by the others. They were all put under pressure, he needed to think quickly and make sure that his family is safe. He was able to handle the situation pretty well. Later in the episode 4, when they were before the king again, Wang So confessed that he was the one who killed the monks and destroyed the temple.

What Wang So did was really dangerous, but Wang Wook supported Wang So by justifying Wang So's actions. As we can observe, Wang Wook has learnt to deal with pressure and to keep his family safe. So in my opinion, his situation doesn't justify his behaviour. Now back the main reproach: his passivity towards Hae Soo. He didn't stop the whipping, he didn't interrupt Baek Ah, when the latter was yelling at Hae Soo. He could have intervened here too by saying that he was the main culprit, but he never did. But in my opinion, he is not just passive towards Hae Soo, but also towards lady Hae. For the whole time he had been married, he never said anything about his feelings towards her so that lady Hae always thought, he never loved her. We all know, he did, even if it was a different love. His passivity is even more visible, when the prince wanted to tell his wife that he did love her, but he was stopped just before she died.

 

He accepted her decision, which he will regret later. As conclusion, he was also passive towards lady Hae. From my point of view, when it comes to love, Wang Wook is like paralysed. The other reason why I said, he is a nice guy, but not necessarly a good person is because he promised a lot of things to Hae Soo, but he was never able to keep his promises. He told her, she would never be treated like this again, yet we know, this is not true as he is unable to stop the arranged marriage. Lady Hae pushed him towards Hae Soo and he knew that therefore he wrote Hae Soo a poem and asked for an answer. She asked him to take a second wife, but he refused as he was afraid of it. Wang Wook is very intelligent, when it comes to survive at the court but when it comes to love, he is completely overwhelmed by his feelings so that he is scared of these. MAybe this can be explained by this way: he feels he is not controlling the situation or the relationship, when it comes to love. Therefore he keeps his feelings to himself so that the other has no idea that she has so much power over him. From my point of view, he would have kept Hae Soo like that, secure her feelings for him and nothing else in return, if lady Hae hadn't died. Wang So is the opposite: his feelings are what pushes him to act or react. He killed all these monks out of love for his mother, but it was a really dangerous move because he could have been blamed for the assassination of the Crown Prince. 

Chingu thanks you for writing all of Wang Wooks faults concerning his feeling for others. I agree wanting to protect your family is honorable but it should not be at the expense of somone else's life or wants. Wang Wook acts like a "NICE GUY" only for show in my oppinion. He has lots of sides to his personality ( ambiton for the thorne and arrogance and Kindness). He has never let anyone see his arrogant and ambitious side but only his kindness. I think his kidness is a way to attract alies to his plan of becoming emporror. If everyone sees his good deeds, the way he treats his servants and his kindness for his brothers is a good way for him build his allies. Evan now he still doesn't have any true alies except for his brothers.  One thing I am positive is that he doesn't like Wang So and he considers him competition for Hae Soo's affection. He also thinks Wang So is not a person but someone he could get as an ally but not as a brother. I think Wang Wook will one day show Hae Soo the real HATE he has for Wang So , then she will lose respect for him once and for all. ]

From bingewatcherinsomniac:

Although my heart leaning towards supporting So at the moment  (boy, he's such a wounded puppy I NEED to shower him with all love and affection he deserves), I need to chirped in other details that I miss in my previous post about wook's psych (speculation only) since we're at it right now. 

Since he's very careful and considerate person he might come off as scheming and calculative person at times. What he do might not be romantic in spontaneous way, but he is such a pacifist that doesn't want anybody hurt and hold grunge against him. Remember he lives in a place where he needs to be careful at all times just to be safe. 

Even the general in episode 7 warns and motivates So, that there will be only one Prince that can survive and stay in palace. That scene is there to enlightened us viewers what kind of environment the palace is. 

Wook, if I assume (little similar to c-version), came not with a strong familial background. His family, thanks to evil Queen, had been ridicule once and exiled to far away land before. And I believe there's one accident that cause her mother sick and traumatised yeonhwa. He have no option other than stepping up to earn himself place as a prince and bring his family back to its rightful place. This experience somewhat similar to So, that both have to work hard to earn their position. Difference is So is alone but wook came with family. Family might be better and warmer environment to wook but it also comes as burden. What he did might affect his entire family. If he's being careless and hurt anyone, people might revenge and get back to his mother or sister and cause them harm. He have no option other than acts as if he walks on a thin ice.

Wang so, in contrast, as hurts he is, whatever he do only affect himself alone. He can create this illusion of fear to protect himself as that's the only way he knows to survive. 

Take a look at a scene where wook plead to King about haesoo marriage. He's so lost and desperate that he act out of character even the king don't expected him to be there. But he's still careful with his choice of words as to not insulting the king and try to understand king's intention but put himself in his humblest state to plead the king and try to come out with a better idea, all in attempt to save soo. 

The difference is obvious with So that fearfully suggest to King thinking he has a better idea by making Hae family suffered first for certain amount of time then controlling them after pardon them and making Hae family back to their glory. Lol. No wonder the king mad at them. But this choices is what makes them different. So doesn't care about other people out of his utmost concern at the moment (soo) and will do whatever it takes to meet his goals. This scene also gives us an idea what kind of ruler wang soo will be in the future. I love him but he gives us major darth vader vibes sometimes 

If he wants to, wook should know about Hae family situation better as he's his in law, but he choose not to. Even after being humiliated by Hae family in forest, he keeps his cool and try thinking other way. 

So yes his calm and careful nature can be his quality and his flaws sometimes depending how we look at it.

 

Thoughts on Queen Yoo:

Spoiler

from enigmatic_ziphy

Now that i have seen subs,

I am defintiely in minority but I am actually intrigued by mother's hatred for the kid and whether or how much of the blame can be put solely on her shoulder.

*******************

She hates him...because he is personification of every bit of humiliation and pain she has felt. Psychologically she associates him with her most painful period. I can understand what that must feel like.

If your mind is rejecting a particular entity then it really isn't about mother-son for her. She can't view him as a person only. He is only a living walking vest of her pain that just evokes hatred and anger by his mere memory.

Our minds do work that way - how we associate things with meanings or how memories are triggered and how they emotionally overwhelm us. So call it manic depression or whatever, somethign happened, she lost sense of right or wrong and pinned it all on that kid and now its too deep rooted.

Unless something super huge happens, her mind will never see WS as more that receptacle of her horrors and tribulations.

And she is a doting mother otherwise.

 

 

Sad part is, this just highlights how important psychologists are ...you can't fight your brain with empty declaims of morality, right and wrong, responsibility and consequences... because she is not doing this on purpose. And the sad part is, there is no way out of this.

 

Someone asked that she has the greatest power right in front of him of using WS.. but she can't.. even if it comes to a life threatening situation she can't - won't be able to do it (unless random character change)

Because mere sight of him is revolting and repulsive. She would rather die than have any identity association with him.

************************

From my perspective,

WS's miseries are primarily (99%) king;s doing. I can understand how WS yearns for mother's love and will always resent her and yearn for her. And in all of this the king goes scotfree. Mother blames son, son blames mother. And the real scoundrel just sits on the throne engaging in god knows what lascivious activities

Clearly did something to make wife go crazy.. and then didn't try to keep tabs or save his own kid.

Queen Yoo's impact on So from Briseis:

“I erased all traces of you. I’ve burned it all down. Nothing will lead back to you, Mother… It was all for you, Mother, Mother, Mother,…”

OH HOLY CRAP! One thing was knowing Wang So killed off the monks for his mother, but the fact that he actually came back to her like an eager little boy who got his first A, seeking her approval and praise, is so messed up! It’s heartbreaking how expectant and giddy he is - as if he was sure that this time he has done enough, that this time his mother would surely love him. He even sounds like a little boy, speaking with that touch of vulnerable bravado as if he was actually boasting to her and being proud of himself.

After all the cruel dog comparisons and insults Wang So received during his life, it’s heartwrenchingly ironic that in the end he comes begging for his mother’s affection just like a loyal, abused dog that returns to his master. So much love-starved and f***ed-up he is!

“You are my shame, disgrace, and flaw.”

Wang So comes to his mother expecting an unconditional acceptance from her, just like what would a mother from Hae Soo’s story do, but instead he gets a complete rejection of everything he is. Only mere hours after he slaughtered a whole order of monks to protect her, in an act that was against his conscience and that tarnished his soul. And even then he still begs her for explanation so he would finally understand what is so wrong with him, what he’s lacking, why his mother just can’t love him no matter what he does or how much he tries. And you can see how deep and traumatic his inferiority complex is since he immediately blames his scar for being unworthy of her love, but he never blames her for causing his misery while she blames him for hers - the final proof that he is the victim in this toxic relationship. She hold so much power over him because the sheer force of her brutal rejection sends him stumbling back and later tumbling down on the floor, as if she dealt him a mortal blow. And for a moment all fight goes out of him - the man who fought a small army and still came out victorious is defeated.

The tears start to fall, his lips begin to quiver and he feels nothing but hopelessness as he tells her about his horrid life with his adoptive family. It’s WS’s last attempt to coax at least a hint of affection from her. However, he never stood a chance in the first place because even 15 years ago she chose his older brother over him and it wasn’t about which one of them she would love more, but about the one who would gain her more power. It was simply about betting on the better horse who would get her the throne. The scar made WS into an outcast, unfit to be a king, and it was in that moment when he lost once and for all any chance to be accepted by his mother.

“Today is a day you will remember. You threw me away, Mother. However, I will not leave. From now on.you will have to look only at me.”

Though, when Wang So gets up, with his head held high and determination in his teary eyes, it’s unsettling how much he actually does resemble her - after all the abuse he received he manages to come up with the perfect response and revenge. She said it herself, didn’t she? She can’t bear to look at him so he will stay and torment her until the end of her miserable life. When he turns his back on his mother it’s both literal and figurative and it’s for good. Lee Joon Gi in this scene single-handedly redefines the definition of acting brilliance - it’s unreal how much he’s able to express and emote.

 

Thoughts on Wang Yo:

Spoiler

From Valsava and Mau_cherry:'

So do I feel the same eager wanting to know what they conversation is about clearly WY feels threaten by WS.. Just seeing how the other brothers are communicating with him and going to him when something is wrong WY may feel that WS could usurp his teritory 

 

For sure... Wang Yo checked out all Princes... his biggest Rivals are Mo and Wook. Since long they plan to get rid of Mo and than they have to win the Kings suport..... whatever is needed. Wang So - he was not really in the Picture. He made him look terrible using the rumors so the People will fear him - but on the other hand he did not even thought he could fight for real.

But he came back - and with every single Day he feels more like a threat. And with every talk he proves more that he is smart and dangerous. But he never took the side of one ot the Brothers. So he never had any suport. If he will become a Rival on one Day he needs suport. So - getting friendly with Baek Ah - he can´t like that.

From valsalva:

In the beginning it seems that WY was very protective of his brother when we see how the mom cut his face WY shouted out for him.. I like to think him seeing his mom behave this way made him fear her and then watching how she threw him away after harming him what did she do to WY to make him do her bidding did she use threats on him clearly the child had to be afraid of her.. Now she will use WY to go against WS  sad how both children have become victims of mom rage and greed for the throne.. She has to put WY on the throne because he's the onlyone that would do as she says but in WS case it's different the wounds are to deep and she has rejected him time and time again..

From madrarua:

Lee Joon Gi really did a stellar job acting here. You could feel Wang So's pain in the unveiling. Far from the smile he gave when he first came into the room, this shows the shame and humiliation he is going through. This is 4th's Achilles heel and 3rd knew it well. He can't beat him with words so he'll make him bow down before him and the others. Next he'll want a more public humiliation. It was a cunning trap he set for 4th. He knew that 10th is like a precocious child, so getting him to corner 4th into the unmasking was like child's play. Wang So is a man of his word, and he knew he would not have backed down even though it's the most humiliating thing he could do. I like how it pans to everyone's reaction. Most look away, making the situation worse. They think they are helping him by pretending ignorance, yet the fact they cannot bring themselves to look at him just reinforces the hideousness of his scar. Hae Soo, fair play to her, was the only one to look him in the eye. She did not waver and took his injury in stride. While all the rest averted their gaze,  she boldly met his telling him in her own inimitable fashion that it doesn't matter to her. That he is himself, Wang So, scar or no scar. It's acceptance in it's most basic form.

From Solelylurking:

Yes, you are right and your argument is spot on too. It is true that The evilishername Queen mother will be likely to shine the most if Yo become king. But if we look other option (there isn't a lot) the most reasonable choice to be what she wants right now is Yo. Wook chance to become King is not as much because his family status is lower than Yo's family status. That's why Wook is careful. He is trying to set his basic as politician first because he know his background is not very helpful. Yo knew this too, that's why he said that to YH. WS chance to become king is slimmer than Wook if we want to based it on how people in that era thinks. They value beauty very much. So's scare is seen as a disgrace. That's why his mother abandon him. He is no use for her because she tought he can not become king. 

That's the basic of my thinking. 

Well Yo and YH is peas in a pot anyway. It's like a snake make a deal to a larger snake. If the writer decide to ditch history, they should make Yo as YH husband. I want to see what their house hold looks like hahaha. But I think they will make YH marry So. It will create more intersting story and the basic of Soo's pain. 

 

Let's consider Yeon-hwa as well:

Spoiler

Valsava:

 I also thought she had a hand in the King decision, Being she could feel HS taking all her brothers time from her and showing that so many of them are interested in her.. She may have suggested to the King to keep brothers from fighting for her knowing WW was in love with his wife cousin becoming a brother wife or concubine would means she's off limit to her but being the king concubine she could have some lead way being the princess she is she would always hold more power then the king concubine while  the king is alive and even after his death.. If HS marries any of the brothers she to would hold a princess title and she can't have that making her off limits.. 

Welcome Aboard @Neng Erlina  I would like the site that you watch from S one could you please Msgs me the site so I could do some comparisons myself.. Please stop lurking and jump in and chat with us we always looking for a fresh pair of eyes to see things differently..

From Skxz:

Yeon Hwa and Yo. That ship is already sailing for me. It’s a relationship of let’s see who can be more evil. I feel like there is some tension in their relationship. And it is also rather intense. 

Okay aside from all the lovey doveyness, what really drew me into this scene were the facts that Yo presented. That although Yeon Hwa wishes for Wook to sit on the throne that will not get her very far. She will merely be a princess under him and not the Queen like she wants. Yo believes that he is her only option but Yeon Hwa is very smart, she knows that since Yo already has a wife/wives she will not be the Queen either even if she married him and wonders if he will give them up for her to be Queen. They’re characters are both very manipulative, calculative and power focused. This heightens the intensity and tension of their relationship and I love how different it is in comparison to all the other relationships present so far in the series.

On a side note honestly if Yeon Hwa wanted to be Queen and her goal was to get Wook to the throne she might as well just marry him if he does get it. I know this is a rather sick idea but Yo is also her brother, they are blood related so honestly there isn’t much of a difference. Brother or half-brother, they’re still your brother Yeon Hwa. 

So stepping in and stopping the kiss really pissed me off. Him getting involved with Yeon Hwa is just UGHHHHH so frustrating. I don’t want them together. I refuse that they were historically together. I just hate it with a passion and I wish he would stay as far away from her as possible. So you have Hae Soo, let’s be real that’s all you need 

I feel like this is the moment when So realises his feelings for Soo. The lyrics of the song I think really speak to him. There's really nothing else much to say cause So's face says it all. Of course everyone loved it but So was just in awe.

 

from solelurking and bebebisous33:

You are right about YH feeling is not a black and white thing. She is very interesting as a character. She is hateable but in certain way she is pitifull too. 

As I think about again, YH feeling for So is mix feeling. There is a little bit of like, there is a little bit of fascination, but love is strong word. I won't be using it to them until it's proven. She wants to tame the beast. If she loves him, she will not say that. But it is true that she fond of him and care about him (the scene where she mend his wound). 

I don't think she will consider So if she want to marries to power. So is scarred. His chance to become king is slimmer than Wook. That's why she back up Wook so much to become king. I don't know why she doesn't want to marry Yo. If it is power she seeks, she should marry Yo. That's the closest fastest way to get it. 

About Wook.. That's why I said So should develop his feeling a lot faster and take away the girl. Wook's character would not see any big development until that day comes. Wook's feeling for Soo is a mountain, the main purpose for him to smile and breath. He taught her feeling is the same too. I think Wook will think So take away Soo without her consent. That's why he will become beserk. 

It will interesting to watch his character change and shift. 

I disagree with you. Yeon Hwa can't marry Yo because she would suffer the exact same fate than her mother. She would be a wife among others and she would be depend of Yo's good will. What Yeon Hwa wants is to become The Queen and not just Queen. She has the same dream than Queen Yoo, yet the latter never succeeded therefore she is trying to use Yo in order to become The Queen. And this is the other reason why Yeon Hwa can never marry Yo. When Yo becomes the king, the Queen will be his mother. She will be the one who shines the most.

Yo's proposition seems tempting, but it is like with the snake, when it talked to Adam (Bible). His points were correct. If her brother becomes the king, she will only remain the princess. However, since she has such an influence on Wang Wook, she could become the Queen in the shadow. Moreover, she would be less depend than with Yo.

 

From Skxz

FIRST ENCOUNTER

We first meet Yeon Hwa when she catches Soo staring at Wook. She looks like a pure and kind girl but looks can really be deceiving. Right from the get go she emits a very authoritative aura. The way she spoke to Soo was basically her dissing Soo indirectly and highlights how she looks down on people. 

Although she is the first daughter of King Wang Gun being a woman in an era which was male dominated was definitely not easy and she would not have been considered as equals to any of her brothers whether they be younger or older. We can see that this is a struggle she faces and in order for her to be able to gain the power she wishes she must marry someone of high status. Only then would she be able to sit at the top. 

Another hindrance is that she is the child of Queen Hwangbo who is not the first Queen. This puts her further away from her goal and we can tell she hates it. 

HAE SOO'S PUNISHMENT

However it is evident that nothing stops her from seeking power and status. She is often seen conversing and hanging around her brothers which holds to show that she will not back down even if women are viewed as lesser in society. This is evident in the scene where Hae Soo gets a beating. All the princes are present and no one says anything at first. Like many have mentioned even Wook wasn't able to stop her because he was hesitant due to their familial relationship. Eun and Jung didn't dare say anything to her. Yo was just enjoying it like the evil guy he is and Won well he just follows whatever Yo does (I really wanna know more about Won). It was only So who could stop her and even at that point she argued that she was in charge of running the household and this was the power she had and no one could say otherwise. She really stood her ground and that was rather impressive. 

YO AND SO

Episode 5

The interaction with Yo and So was rather interesting. She states "I am not looking for a great man. I am waiting for a man who will cherish me. Someone who will treasure me." This to me is rather ironic as she had told her brother a couple scenes back to marry someone else not for love but for the outlook for his future. She's rather selfish and manipulative.

The most interesting of that scene is when she states "How much fun it would be to turn an animal into a human." This line I think shows that she wants power. She's basically saying what if I could tame a beast and bend them at my will. She is very curious of what this would be like indicating very subtly that she has a thirst for power. 

Episode 7

Finally when her and Yo converse about how she will not get anything she wants even if Wook was to become King. Yo is very calculative and manipulative and in this conversation that is depicted. He says that it is in her best interest to marry him as they share the same dream, that is to rule Goryeo. However she is able to quickly point out the flaws in his plan and that it would no be in her best interest as she will not be his first wife (which would put her in the same situation her mother is in). She challenges Yo and this highlights that Yeon Hwa is smart and quick on her feet.

WOOK

Early in Ep 7 she talks to Wook about finding him another match for the benefit for their family (This is not in all the versions but I think it should be cause it's rather important to her character development as well as further insight into her character). We see that she has a fear of being driven out of the palace again and wants Wook to go into another political marriage. She even says "Whether it's an arranged marriage or I'm sold off, I will not enter a marriage that does not help you." This is of course the complete opposite of what she said 2 episodes a go and shows that her desire power is becoming stronger. If it means she can be on top she will do whatever it takes. Looks like she's become both blinded and driven by power due to fear.

No love just politics.

I think she is a rather compelling character and someone I will keep my eye on in the future. Her character (like I have also mentioned before) is very much like Yo. I do not like either of them yet they intrigue me as they add another dark and mysterious layer to the story. I realised after re-watching her parts that she is looking out  for Wook but ultimately it is for her benefit. Furthermore, the constant changes and events which occur cause her to be more focused on her final goal. She is fearless and headstrong and I love that there are female characters like that in the series it's just sad to see that she is doing this for all the wrong reasons. She's desperate.

 

Things which I look forward to seeing:

1. What relationship she will end up sharing with So. Although I hate the idea of them being together I want to know what may end up bringing them together (if it were to follow the course of history)

2. The development of her relationship with Yo. Two peas in a pod.

3. How she will fall. All villains have their downfall and I want to know how hers unfolds.

I'm sorry this wasn't a very good analysis. I feel like I'm lacking in some areas but I shall work hard and hopefully improve. I just wanted to give my thoughts on this character as I found her rather interesting. Although she is not mysterious her actions and the way she acts are very notable. Thank you to all those who made it through this long post. I think I want to do more character analysis on other supporting roles so feel free to let me know if you want me to talk about my thoughts on another character. 

Thanks again for reading! Lots of love 

from bebebisous33:

I really loved your very good analysis about Yeon Hwa.  I agree with you that her character is much more complex than she appears first. Yes, she is using her brother to get what she wants that's why Wang So's description really fits her as well: "You can't trust anyone, especially the one close to you". Yeon Hwa is a more cold-hearted and level-headed person than her brother and even Wang So in my opinion. I can't forget the scene, when Yeon Hwa, her mother and lady Hae met Queen Yoo and at the end, lady Hae took her hand in order to comfort her. Wook's wife knew exactly what Yeon Hwa was feeling: upset and mad. However, Yeon Hwa pushed the hand away showing that she doesn't care about empathy and feelings. Wang So is in that matter different. However, she is not cold-hearted and evil like Yo because she felt sorry for Wang So's humiliation. She is able to feel empathy. Yet her calculative nature makes her less emotional and sensitive. She is so different from Wang So because despise his cold and distant behaviour, he is the exact opposite: very emotional.

Just like him, she had a traumatic experience and I guess, she suffered much more than her brother, since she is a woman and as such, her status is much lower. Actually, she is a little different from Wang So and Hae Soo. She thinks, she needs someone to save herself, so as such she is trying to relying on someone. On the other hand she is looking for someone who will need her as well so that the relationship is more equal.

Finally, that explains why she is jealous of Hae Soo 

MOD EDIT: PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE IMAGES

because Yeon Hwa had thought, if she could show interest towards Wang So, he would come close to her so that she could manipulate him and turn him into a human. Yet "showing interest" (an expression she used herself) is not the same than showing care and affection therefore she misjudged Wang So's personality. She never thought, he could have feelings as he seems to be so calm and level-headed. Secondly, when she mentioned "turn him into a human", she had something else in her mind: the human should behave exactly like her: ambitious, selfish, ready to defend his Queen, cold-hearted and calculating. Striking is that Wang So is right now transforming himself, he is turning into a human, but a different kind: someone who is more honest, sensitive to others, less selfish, less brutal and able to socialise. So her jealousy towards Hae Soo doesn't come from her heart, I mean by it that she is not really competing for Wang So's affections as such. It is just that Hae Soo is ruining Yeon hwa's plan, as she can't have any influence on Wang So. Her plan was to get a hold of Wang So, influence him so that she could get what she wants, but with Hae Soo by his side, it makes it impossible. This also elucidates why Yeon Hwa is so eager to get rid of Hae Soo after the singing. She doesn't want her to have more influence on Wang So and the other princes because she needs a relative to achieve her goal.

from chiuu nyuu:

The princess is definitely a intriguing character. Loved both of your reflections and I mostly agree! But I differ in one point: I still do not think that YH wants to use/manipulate SO to her advantage. Yes, she wants to change him but more so that he is accepted by society and not for her own selfish gain (yet). It makes YH sad that SO is marginalized thats why she wants to change him and not accept him as he is, hence what @briseissaid. 

I'd rather think that SO is her weak point!! She is manipulative, calm and collected but when it's about SO she has to try hard not to reveal herself. I'm sure we will soon see what stupid things she will do just to be next to him.

Let's face it, yes she is an evil snooty richard simmons resulting from her shitty personality combined with her past and precarious/low position but she is still a human with feelings. 

 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

FINAL ROUND : The villain(s)

Please follow these guidelines :

• The type of villain she/he is  ( eg: tragic villain, serial killer, psychopath, etc.)
• discuss the villain(s) background
• discuss his/her relationship with the OTP ( if any)
• discuss his/her motives
• discuss his/ her goals
• discuss his/ her traits
• discuss his/her impact on the plot advancement
• describe his/her iconic scene ( NB :  for each villain = a description)

 

The topic of the 'The Villains' does seem misplaced at this stage of the contest, but it's been decided, and that's what we'll focus on. On a positive note, it should make this final round a little easier than the last.

I was just mentioning to @ktcjdrama that while Queen Yoo and Wang Yo are obvious villains, I'd like everyone to also consider Wook. Hear me out. No, he's not your traditional villain, but he was the primary reason both So and Soo were separated in the end. His role and his actions too were so very complex...the reasons behind the things that he did or didn't do, that I feel the analysis would be a compelling read for all. We talked about it a lot through the course of thread...so we definitely have material.

Here are my thoughts on how we should proceed.  The best analyses, i believe, comes from assertions  and subsequent discussions, because then, you have the perspective of more than one person...hence the completed essay will then be more well-rounded. So I would suggest this. I think several of us should write about each of these characters, share those analysis, and then compile for final submission. So let's spend today calling up the thread members we know who have definite opinions to share.

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

11 minutes ago, chi13lou said:

It's weird @chi13lou Berou's link above isn't working for me.

 

 

Annyeong @chi13lou and everyone else!! We'll have to do double-exposure on both threads, but we'll need to post everything about round 3 in the main thread first before the shipper's thread. I'm starting a strategy discussion there first. 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

1 hour ago, ktcjdrama said:

Unbelievable...!!! We made it to Final Round...!!! Wow...!!! Yay...!!!

I honestly was quite anxious because of the 50% judges vote. As can be seen, we only have 1 vote out of 8.

CONGRATULATIONS to MLSHR fans worldwide!!! Thanks for your dedication to MLSHR and for voting! And also thanks @meahri_1 for leading us in submitting the requirements and making it all possible! One last round, stargazers...

 

 

Agree @ktcjdrama. I knew after the submissions were completed that the only way we would survive to round 3 was to win the popular vote since the DOTS submission was more cohesive and well thought out than ours. So we need to be very strategic with our plan and timing for next round. We will, this time, assign segments at the very beginning so that there will be time to review all segments as a whole before submission. We've had the support of many MLSHR fans outside of our thread. We owe it to ourselves and all of them to pull out all the stops and execute this next round to the very, very best of our ability. And ultimately, with this submission, we really do want to show everyone why MLSHR is a drama that should be watched and remembered.

WE CAN DO IT!!  

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

ANNYEONG YEOROBUN!!!

We made it to round 2. We have so many people to thank.  THANK YOU...all of you. Special shoutout goes to MLSHR fans based in Italy. I started to see us in the lead again after it was shared that there was a group of 200 Italian Moon Lovers out there that one of our Chingu connected with.  (THANK YOU SO VERY VERY much.) 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

THANK YOU!!!!   I posted this in IG several hours ago. The current points are now 42 points in the lead at 211!!!!

THANK YOU!!!

 

 

 

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

Annyeong dear chingudeul!!!  LOL I see there are so many of us who haven't given up yet. I'm glad. I'm loving all of our Jieunie's posts. Even though she does eat hate for breakfast, she was, even with Kiha, very careful not to give the haters and antis ammunition. So her recent 'in your face' activity is so unlike her. Isn't it great?? Get your popcorn and soda ready. I'm sure there's more to come.  

By the way, W is slowly catching up. If you haven't voted yet, please do. ALSO, could you all make sure to LIKE our post submission? It will be another way for us to show our support of the drama and our efforts in the contest.  THANK YOU!!!  

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Heads up yeorobun, we just slid into 2nd place and are 3 behind DOTS. If you haven't voted yet, please do and help us get ahead again. Jebal.  

 

Remember to click the link above and then scroll up to the voting box at the top of the page.  

THANK YOU!!

8 hours ago, antoniaclamens said:

Done  I'm so happy we're winning!!!  

As always said in dramas: sorry and thank you

Sorry for not helping as much as I want and thank you for your awesome work guys.  I saw the post and both the post and the drama deserve to win 

Beautiful,  it made me feel like crying  (actually I'm sharing some tears)  this drama this thread you all guys are love 

How can I share the link? 

 

@antoniaclamens chingu, hover over 'Reply to [Round 2] K-Drama....click your right button and select 'copy link address'.

 

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

Heads up yeorobun, we just slid into 2nd place and are 3 behind DOTS. If you haven't voted yet, please do and help us get ahead again. Jebal.  

 

Remember to click the link above and then scroll up to the voting box at the top of the page.  

THANK YOU!!

[[Official] ♥ Lee Joon Gi x IU ♥ || JoonU [2016 SBS Best Couple & Hallyu Star Awards!!]]

58 minutes ago, deori said:

Normally, people will follow each other in social media if they are close enough or at least if they are public figure they will follow each other if they have same project together.

I guess she has no reason to follow our Queen, something fishy with her motif.

 

 

WHOA. IF THERE WASN'T CONCRETE PROOF BEFORE THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WAS FISHY...THERE IS NOW.

So this is extremely strange. Wonder what prompted this.

 

 

 

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

1 hour ago, summer2017 said:

I want to do a shout out in Instagram is there a direct link? Or I just copy the link to the second round? 

 

You would use the same link I provided above, chingu. Make sure to give instructions -- 'Once on the Soompi page, scroll up to the voting box." You will need to register as a 'guest' on Soompi if you're not already registered as a member in Soompi.

 

So we're in the lead by 20 votes, but that can disappear quickly. So let's work on extending that lead further, chingu!  Hwaiting!!  

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Good morning and evening dearest yeorobun!!  We are currently leading in votes which was a really nice surprise to wake up to. Since the voting period ends on August 1st, teams W and DOTS have ample time to rally their members to vote. So we must do the same.  Many of our votes came in the last several hours thanks to campaigning that was done by our shipper friends (Hestia and Stargazercassiopea...MANY, MANY, MANY THANKS). I think some of our friends in FB voted also. 

I think we still have members who haven't yet had an opportunity to vote, so @chi13lou, can you do a special call out?

Silent lurkers...come out and vote chingu.

And if any of you have friends or family members who have followed MLSHR, but are not Soompi members, if they don't mind registering in Soompi, please ask them to vote for our drama. 

Click on the link and scroll to the top of the thread page to find the voting box!!

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

Just now, 40somethingahjumma said:

Hi @meahri_1 I have no idea what all that was about or for but no problems whatsoever on my end. Anything to promote Moon Lovers and help others to see it in a more positive light.

Thanks for the acknowledgement although it wasn't necessary.

 

The post of yours that we used was perfect for the section -- Drama Quality and Recommendation . Your love for the drama touched on all the things that made it great.  

[[Drama 2016] Moon Lovers ❤ Scarlet Heart Ryeo, 달의 연인-보보경심 려 \^0^/ Soompi Kdrama 2016 Winner]

1 hour ago, summer2017 said:

@meahri_1 chingu I couldn't find the credits to team stargazers in the post. Can we reply to the thread to credit @antoniaclamens @ktcjdrama and whoever that helped out as well? 

 

I had forgotten in the rush to finish. I was able to update my post to include and document all our supporting chingu.  Hmmm. Now I'm thinking I left someone out. Will need to go back to see who else provided input.