Natural Dancer Vs Trained Dancer

[LucasBunny]

-__- i am one - and i don't think MJ invented the moves you see today by just being him.

and no, michael jackson didn't teach every move himself. he learnt 'popping and locking' /and or electric boogaloo from a break dance teacher - maybe the story (movie) or documents of MJ's life tell that he did it all himself; that's just to make them look good. he is considered natural 'cause 'that's his style - we are addressed through media "that's michael jacksons" moonwalk. just like some ppl thinks chris brown invented 'krumping'. - wrong again. but that's HIS natural style; he didn't learn it from his own: and trust me, u need to know the foundation from someone with krumping.

every profressional dancer would have to undergo from someone. as i already said - foundation is the key of being a good dancer. how would they know when to execute a chest pop, along with a arm twirl/lock/ leg turtle watever?!

it's like in martial arts. learning from a book like that boy in the karate kid doesn't entirely work. he had to learn to fundimentals.

Like I said

Micheal was inspired by James Brown

but when people think of MJ they don't think of James Brown

because they dance different.

and I don't think he learned that stuff from a boogaloo teacher

because that didnt become popular until like the 80's and MJ was doing things related to that since "Off the Wall" which was in 1978, and even look at the dances to

"Dancing Machine" and that was Micheal was a child.

I don't know who think Chris Brown invented Krump

cuz they would be wrong.

But your missing the point

even if someone taught him how to pop and lock

it doesnt matter because he just has the natural ability to be able to excute it

properly. Even if he wasnt taught how to pop and lock it would be no loss.

It goes beyond the moonwalk, it goes beyond pop and lock

Micheal was just born to dance, like Mariah Carey was born to sing.

[Guest JF21©]

@ mori..um..maybe to other's who dont have rhythm they need to learn to chest pop, but where i'm from that's not something that's taught it's just done..seriously..i never learned how to isolate my chest to chest pop or to isolate my hips to 'tick' or even how to c-walk...in all honesty i didnt know i was ''isolating'' until i took a bellydance and hula class....when the other students were struggleing to lift their chest i was trying to comprehend why they couldn't do it.

being a natural dancer doesn't mean clean lines and whatnot. it means being able to understand your body and the way it moves so that when you have to learn technicalities it comes ''naturally'' as opposed to someone who must think to themselves 'rinse lather repeat'

you get what i'm tryna say....

ok for example, at TRL when Se7en was there i was in the crowd dancing with some of the people i met standing on line. i was trying to show them how to chest pop (no lie) and only say 2 out of the 6 people around me could get it.....even after i did it in slomo and explained what muscles to use to do it...they still couldn't get it...now if they would have went home and practiced over and over they might have got it, but i can probably bet it would have looked awkward until they practiced so much that it came easy....

[RiderKamen]

Like I said

Micheal was inspired by James Brown

but when people think of MJ they don't think of James Brown

because they dance different.

and I don't think he learned that stuff from a boogaloo teacher

because that didnt become popular until like the 80's and MJ was doing things related to that since "Off the Wall" which was in 1978, and even look at the dances to

"Dancing Machine" and that was Micheal was a child.

not really, you can see the similarities between MJ and James Brown

MJ did not invent the Moonwalk. Tell you the truth, nobody knows who invented the moon walk but the person who made it their signature was BoJangles (the tap dancer).

To me, people that are trained are the people that are mechanical. They are physically taught (teacher bending your hands and etc. ) the mechanics.

For example: When I was little, I wanted to beatbox so bad but I couldn't do any noises. Around 4 years ago, I found a beatboxing website that taught me how to do tricks, and obviously I downloaded the videos, pictures, and even talked to some beatboxers about tricks. Now I can do some beatbox.

But on the other hand, there are people who have no lessons in beatbox and they can do tricks that I still can't even do even if I tried over and over. Those are the ones who naturally had it in them. They delevoped it themselves, whether they made it up/messed around and found someting or seen somebody do it and they can replicate it in a instant with no outside help.

[Guest CtlunatC]

i believe i am a natural dancer, even tho i took chinese folk for 2 years of my life... but that didnt really train me lol....

since i am a natural dancer i do believe that there are natural dancers.

i agree with you, natural dancers are AWESOME!! like i'm not speaking for just my self but for all those people out there who are natural dancers.

its like... lets say you put that person in a giant crowd of people who are dancing, and then your eye just instantly goes to them because they just shine and theres an air around them when they dance.

trained people are awesome too, but its like.... its not something that their just born with ya know???

but you know whats best out of all of them???? natural dancers who get trained... you might say that a natural dancer who is trained is a trained dancer... but i dont think thats it. a natural dancer is already someone who's got the moves and stuff, but like, they go to explore other styles of dancing, and sometimes might need some polishing up to do.

you never find a gem that is already cut and polished. you just find the gem first ya know??? but with some polish and sharpening here and there, its beautiful

[Guest pinkpiglet]

Yes I believe it's about building up,

but some people just have that talent natural, it takes time to find it

but they have deep down.

For example, Britney Spears needed training,

Janet Jackson didnt.

you can believe what you want.

but i believe there isn't.

it's not "natural"

it's more like being able to:

pick up the beat faster

think/plan faster

know how to use body

know the music

have own emotion/style

yes, trained people do only know

what they've been taught, but once

they learn how to do all the things

that i listed above, they'll be "natural"

i'm not a good dancer

but i know how dance works.

[Guest JF21©]

you can believe what you want.

but i believe there isn't.

it's not "natural"

it's more like being able to:

pick up the beat faster

think/plan faster

know how to use body

know the music

have own emotion/style

yes, trained people do only know

what they've been taught, but once

they learn how to do all the things

that i listed above, they'll be "natural"

i'm not a good dancer

but i know how dance works.

that would qualify them as natural dancers.

the same way some people just know how to harmonize and sing vs those who learn how to. the same with people who just know how to do makeup flawlessly as opposed to those who go to cosmetology school and learn. just because you** personally can't or you don't know of anybody personally doesn't mean it doesnt exist. i'm not a great dancer either (imo) but i know that natural dancers exist.

*also i want to ad that just because you are trained it doesn't mean you are not as celebrated...i know some of the posts i made (and others) makes it seem like if you arent natural, then you're crap for having been taught. NOT TRUE, trained dancers are also wonderful to watch*

**by 'you' i don't mean you personally, but generally

[Guest marshmellow]

I'm not sure of your meaning of a "natural dancer". Do you mean someone who's never been taught at all anything about dancing? 'Cause if so, I think there is such a thing, but its rare. Most the dancers I know have been taught at least once, so I wouldn't count them as "natural dancers". Trained dancer, or the ones I've seen, are really perfect and precise on their movements, which is really important when dancing - most the time.

[Guest chocomint11]

natural dancers who are trained and trained dancers who become natural. it's all the same and it's all good.

ask michael jackson. he'd know. not that you'd ask =\

i agree! ^^ and i kind of have a lot of respect for ppl who were born w/ two left feet, because it means that they practiced really hard and got good... because its definately not easy and it would take a lot of perserverence.

but natural is cool too. =]]

[Guest ilovemesomekorean]

uhmmm with the natural dancer cons... lets see.. foundation? build your own foundation... naturally.

plus, who do you think a lot of the teachers who teach lessons are? i think a lot of them are natural dancers... granted a lot probably took lessons too...

but if we are trying to be technical, then think about it... the foundation of dancing came from natural born dancers.

i also agree with JF21... its the same with singing... naturally skilled with their voices, and those who need lessons to learn how to use their voice....

trained dancers a great too though. it just kind of seemed like there were more cons for natural dancers then trained ones.

[Guest EyeBoog]

The stuff about Michael Jackson.... A lot of his style and technique came from the Electric Boogaloo's teaching him. His "Moonwalk" is a simple back glide..he did not invent it. He learned a lot from Poppin' Taco of the Electric Boogaloo Fam, so you can see a lot of similarities in their styles. MJ gave the EB's very little credit for his dancing...so the EB's were quite mad about it. Also, the famous kick and hand thingy that MJ does supposedly came from Poppin' Pete playing around. Suga Pop and Skeeter Rabbit use to play rough with Pete a lot, and he would fight back by doing the kick thing and say "I'll kick you in the @ss" and then do the hand thing which is actually an imitation of Spiderman shooting his web. Pete's favorite hero was Spiderman(Peter Parker), so he liked imitating him a lot. He even invented a style called "Spiderman". Michael Jackson saw Pete doing this, so he bit it and used it as his own...Supposedly. So basically...Michael Jackson is a VERY talented dancer...but he didn't become good on his own. Without his training....he wouldn't be as good and experienced as he is now.

Natural Dancers vs....Trained Dancers....seriously...Doesn't make much of a difference. Natural dancers tend to catch on to things a little bit quicker. Others have to train a lot harder and spend more time on something. A Natural Dancer with no experience battling a Trained Dancer...of course the Trained one would win. He'd/She'd know the foundation of a dance MUCH better, and has a lot more experience.

A Natural Dancer would be useless if he/she has no experience at all in a certain style of dance. Trained Dancers know much more about a certain dance.

[Guest back-sue]

It doesnt matter if theyre trained or not.

Passion and love makes someone a dancer.

I dont take classes because I dont have the money & time.

But I have more respect for natural dancers than trained because natural dancers did it all on their own.

[Guest ilovemesomekorean]

^ agreed.

20 CHARACTERS!!!!!@!!!!!!!!@!!

[LucasBunny]

The stuff about Michael Jackson.... A lot of his style and technique came from the Electric Boogaloo's teaching him. His "Moonwalk" is a simple back glide..he did not invent it. He learned a lot from Poppin' Taco of the Electric Boogaloo Fam, so you can see a lot of similarities in their styles. MJ gave the EB's very little credit for his dancing...so the EB's were quite mad about it. Also, the famous kick and hand thingy that MJ does supposedly came from Poppin' Pete playing around. Suga Pop and Skeeter Rabbit use to play rough with Pete a lot, and he would fight back by doing the kick thing and say "I'll kick you in the @ss" and then do the hand thing which is actually an imitation of Spiderman shooting his web. Pete's favorite hero was Spiderman(Peter Parker), so he liked imitating him a lot. He even invented a style called "Spiderman". Michael Jackson saw Pete doing this, so he bit it and used it as his own...Supposedly. So basically...Michael Jackson is a VERY talented dancer...but he didn't become good on his own. Without his training....he wouldn't be as good and experienced as he is now.

Natural Dancers vs....Trained Dancers....seriously...Doesn't make much of a difference. Natural dancers tend to catch on to things a little bit quicker. Others have to train a lot harder and spend more time on something. A Natural Dancer with no experience battling a Trained Dancer...of course the Trained one would win. He'd/She'd know the foundation of a dance MUCH better, and has a lot more experience.

A Natural Dancer would be useless if he/she has no experience at all in a certain style of dance. Trained Dancers know much more about a certain dance.

I never said Micheal Jackson invented the moonwalk

I'm saying he perfected it, Micheal Jackson had rhythm since he was a child, before the electric boogaloo stuff, you can see that since his Jackson 5 days

he already had rhythm, no one gave it to him the way they had to give Britney Spears and Boa rhythm.

He is Raw talent, he is admired for his execution, not just the moves that he does, his moonwalk is flawless, u see anyone else doing it, they are contanstly moving around while Micheal stays in one spot

Anyone can learn dance steps, but can they execute it the right way? Some have to be taught to keep in time with the music, u can see that with people like Boa and Lee Hyori, Hyori is still being taught that and I know because I saw her do "Crazy and Love" and it was so off, her dancing was totally not in time with the music, just like someone covering a song and creating a totally differen melody, just not working.

Of course if the first time a natural dancer who has never danced before and don't know they can dance would likely lose to a trained dancer, but for how long?

Once the natural dancer finds there inner ability then the trained dancer will run out of moves so fast it won't even be funny.

Because they will pick up naturally.

It doesnt matter if theyre trained or not.

Passion and love makes someone a dancer.

I dont take classes because I dont have the money & time.

But I have more respect for natural dancers than trained because natural dancers did it all on their own.

and I agree

I don't have anything against trained dancers because I want lessons myself

[Guest L.Li-style]

i dont. sadly....i dont..but im in a hip hop dance group right now...uhhh...i didnt really learn much if anything...yet?....the guy basically makes us exercise for an hour and then dance...but i didnt learn any TOTALLY FREAKIN awesome moves yet..its a group dance thing so yeah...so im natural?

[Guest EyeBoog]

I never said Micheal Jackson invented the moonwalk

I'm saying he perfected it, Micheal Jackson had rhythm since he was a child, before the electric boogaloo stuff, you can see that since his Jackson 5 days

he already had rhythm, no one gave it to him the way they had to give Britney Spears and Boa rhythm.

He is Raw talent, he is admired for his execution, not just the moves that he does, his moonwalk is flawless, u see anyone else doing it, they are contanstly moving around while Micheal stays in one spot

Anyone can learn dance steps, but can they execute it the right way? Some have to be taught to keep in time with the music, u can see that with people like Boa and Lee Hyori, Hyori is still being taught that and I know because I saw her do "Crazy and Love" and it was so off, her dancing was totally not in time with the music, just like someone covering a song and creating a totally differen melody, just not working.

Of course if the first time a natural dancer who has never danced before and don't know they can dance would likely lose to a trained dancer, but for how long?

Once the natural dancer finds there inner ability then the trained dancer will run out of moves so fast it won't even be funny.

Because they will pick up naturally.

lol. I know perfectly that Michael Jackson has insane talent. I'm just saying, without his training he wouldn't be as good as he is now. No foundation, no knowledge, nothing. Just "Raw Talent". Also, even when Michael was young, he learned from streetdancers, not just the EB's. I could care less about his "moonwalk" to tell you the truth. I know and seen many funkstylers who had done a perfectly good backglide in events and circles/ciphers. I respect Michael Jackson because he has a very unique style and can freestyle well, not because of his "moonwalk".

And how do you figure a trained dancer would lose to a natural dancer? A trained dancer running out of moves and styles? I highly doubt it. You're probably thinking of trained dancers as dancers taking choreo classes and stuff. I'm talking about trained dancers who learned how to freestyle from masters. Someone who learned how to teach themselves. Not someone who is following steps. The "natural" dancer can go find their "inner ability" all they want. Unless they train themselves and study the style of dance...no way will they beat an educated trained dancer who has learned almost everything about the style. When it comes to a battle...crap like "natural born dancer" and "trained dancer" doesn't even exist anymore. All it comes down to, is who can feel the music more and rock it. And of course...the trained one will know more than the natural one who found his/her "inner ability".

No hate or anything of course lol.

[Guest Faded]

I never said Micheal Jackson invented the moonwalk

I'm saying he perfected it, Micheal Jackson had rhythm since he was a child, before the electric boogaloo stuff, you can see that since his Jackson 5 days

he already had rhythm, no one gave it to him the way they had to give Britney Spears and Boa rhythm.

He is Raw talent, he is admired for his execution, not just the moves that he does, his moonwalk is flawless, u see anyone else doing it, they are contanstly moving around while Micheal stays in one spot

Anyone can learn dance steps, but can they execute it the right way? Some have to be taught to keep in time with the music, u can see that with people like Boa and Lee Hyori, Hyori is still being taught that and I know because I saw her do "Crazy and Love" and it was so off, her dancing was totally not in time with the music, just like someone covering a song and creating a totally differen melody, just not working.

Of course if the first time a natural dancer who has never danced before and don't know they can dance would likely lose to a trained dancer, but for how long?

Once the natural dancer finds there inner ability then the trained dancer will run out of moves so fast it won't even be funny.

Because they will pick up naturally.

and I agree

I don't have anything against trained dancers because I want lessons myself

First off, someone a perfected backslide or what you refer as to the "moonwalk" (the moonwalk is actually a glide n not a slide) is not hard to spot. Hell, MJ's are far from impressive when compared to Memphis Buckin style dancers. And MJ is no where as near natural as you think he is. He took lessons and did not give credit where it was due and acted like he learned everything on his own. Dont get me wrong, MJ is a good dancer, but he isnt some god.

ANYWAYS, the reason that compelled me to post is the fact that you keep downgrading Boa as a dancer. She was recruited on part because of her natural dancing skills. No one taught her rhythm ;. Coegraphers and dance teachers were constantly complimenting her on her NATURAL ability to dance and the rate of speed she picked up dances. It was even argued that she was one of the most talented dancers out of mainstream artist.

And i dont understand why keeping in time with music and rhythm is such a hard concept?

O ya btw, Any good chorography is counted T_T which is why most coegraphers strictly stick to 4/4 beats.

N to answer the thread:

Natural dancers will almost always lose to any properly trained dancer.

There are so many concepts that a well trained dancer learns in a short period of time that a purely natural dancer would be lucky to master just a few of them within their life time. After all, a trained dancer is basically a person who is taught generations worth of discoveries made by natural dancers.

Of course, natural and trained is the best route.

[RiderKamen]

Bojangles modernize the moon walk,

[Guest ThaiNote]

well personally i think there is adifference but i'm goign to add another angle to it

there are talented born dancers

and there are untalented dancers

a born dancer picks up things faster adn can dance with a flow

a not born dancer can also dance with a flow with A LOT More practice then a born dancer

the thing seperating a not born dancer and a born dancer is just ho wmuch effort they put in.

i do know that a very high levels of dancing, born dancers may have a better advantage but a dancer who trains twice as hard may be able to fill in the gap of the talent

[LucasBunny]

First off, someone a perfected backslide or what you refer as to the "moonwalk" (the moonwalk is actually a glide n not a slide) is not hard to spot. Hell, MJ's are far from impressive when compared to Memphis Buckin style dancers. And MJ is no where as near natural as you think he is. He took lessons and did not give credit where it was due and acted like he learned everything on his own. Dont get me wrong, MJ is a good dancer, but he isnt some god.

ANYWAYS, the reason that compelled me to post is the fact that you keep downgrading Boa as a dancer. She was recruited on part because of her natural dancing skills. No one taught her rhythm ;. Coegraphers and dance teachers were constantly complimenting her on her NATURAL ability to dance and the rate of speed she picked up dances. It was even argued that she was one of the most talented dancers out of mainstream artist.

And i dont understand why keeping in time with music and rhythm is such a hard concept?

O ya btw, Any good chorography is counted T_T which is why most coegraphers strictly stick to 4/4 beats.

N to answer the thread:

Natural dancers will almost always lose to any properly trained dancer.

There are so many concepts that a well trained dancer learns in a short period of time that a purely natural dancer would be lucky to master just a few of them within their life time. After all, a trained dancer is basically a person who is taught generations worth of discoveries made by natural dancers.

Of course, natural and trained is the best route.

Like I said, it's not about the dances Micheal learned, it's about the way he executes them

he has the natural ability dance.

and if he was taught those dances, there's a difference between being showed how to do a move, then being trained (sounds stupid right lol?) okay what I'm saying is

someone might say "Hey Micheal, this is how you do the chicken noodle soup, you move your leg here and there, like 1,2,3 1,2,3," and once he sees the steps, he's going to

freak that dance, that's different from " Okay Micheal, you have to do those steps, but you have to put more feeling into it, you have to put more energy into your legs, you look stiff" do u see what I'm saying

No one gave Micheal Jackson his rhythm

Maybe Boa can pick up moves quickly, but she is very stiff when she dances, I can't downgrade her because she has far more experience than I do, but she is a very stiff dancer. Like one part in the "My Name" video, she did some move I forgot what it's caled, but there was no life in it, Some people can pick up moves but can they execute them?? do u watch dancing with the stars?? perfect example, lets take last season for example with Mario Lopez vs that football player guy, that guy struggled throughout the competetion because he's not a natural dancer, while Mario Lopez has his rhythm naturally his moves her fluid while Ian's were counted.

I'm not hating on trained dancers

cuz like I said I plan on taking lessons cuz my dancing is lol.

But I don't believe that a trained dancer will defeat a natural dancer in most cases

suppose it was a competetion like in You Got Served, one team was natural, on team was trained, if it came down to taking it to the streets then it would probably go in the natual dancers favore, even though the trained dancers are using choreographed moves combined, it's about the way you do it, it's going to come down to your rhythm, dancing is more than moves, it's strength as well.

Like with getting crump

do u see how the guys in the getting krunk movie do it??

Crump is all about street and u can tell it's in there blood to get nasty on the dance floor

now we all know Big Bang does that as well, but look at the difference between there crumping and those other men, huge difference.

But this is from what I see, so I respect your opinions

[Guest JF21©]

i think ppl are getting confused by everyone's personal definitions of trained and natural.

like ash said, trained is someone who must be taught to do EVERYTHING down to putting feeling into their moves.

natural is someone who learns the SAME moves, yet when watching them, you'd never know it was choreo.

the dance that ash is talking about that boa looked stiff doing is the chicken head/wop. i also noticed she looks stiff when doing the pee-wee herman type dance with her legs and also whenever she has to shake her butt...i don't know the actual name for the dance but i call it the booty pop lol

yes boa can dance. that's no question. it's just that some of her dance moves don't look like they come easily to her....kinda awkward.

i think that's what she's tryna say when she said that boa is a trained dancer.

it's like if you put two dancers to learn the exact same choreography. one is bound to have natural rhythm and know how to take that choreo and make it something special. while the other will just do the chorography. 123 123 123 123 you know what i'm tryna say? so yes i do believe that in a battle between a trained and natural, with the same choreography the natural will win because he or she will LOOK better doing the exact same choreography as a trained dancer who will just be going thru the motions.

for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI7Bpy3QKn8

now obviously both of these girls are amateur dancers. HOWEVER if you watch the girl in the blue jacket you will see that she moves her body better than the girl in the white..they are doing the exact same choreo, yet the girl in blue is naturally better than the girl in white. the girl in white is just doing what she was taught...while the girl in blue is using what she was taught and adding some of her own personality to it.

it's quite obvious that if these two were to go head to head with the same choreo, the girl in blue would win. i'm also willing to be that she'd be able to pick up more advance choreography quickly and not need to go thru as much guidance as her friend would. that is a natural dancer.

get it?

and like i always bring it back to..you can see it in singing as well:

this girl is a good singer ..but she's just going thru the motions..not feeling the music..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1avxYB3W0jY

this girl is a great singer because not only can she sing, she feels what she is saying...you believe her.