'greatest generation' versus younger generations

[MakahaMusic]

With the 70th anniversary of the end of World War 2 coming up, which was fought by the 'greatest generation', how would you compare the 'greatest' to the younger 'entitlement' generation(s).  By entitlement, I mean expecting to get free music, movies, etc. on the internet, which the youth of today expect as an 'entitlement'

 

They were the 'greatest' generation because as historian Stephen Ambrose wrote in his book "Citizen Soldiers" describing most of the American GIs as 'citizen soldiers', just everyday people joining America's military to fight two of the most evil and powerful empires--Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, in possibly the darkest time in human history, defeating tyranny, and then after the war ended, the survivors going right back to their simple lives.  World War 2 wasn't like the USA fighting in Iraq in Desert Storm in 1991 in which the Americans had bullet proof helmets and vests against the Iraqi army which was completely overmatched in material and technology and there was no doubt in the outcome of the war.  World War 2 had Germany which had superior tanks (Tiger and Panther tanks) and machine guns (MG42) than the Americans had, and some would argue Germany had the better generals.  Some of the german units like their paratroopers and SS Waffen units were some of the best units in the world at the time.

 

And as bad as the Nazi's were, the Japanese were even more cruel.  To give you an idea of what the American soldiers/marines were facing when they fought the Japanese soldiers, consider the barbarity of the Japanese: The Japanese were responsible for roughly 20 million Chinese civilian deaths and killed them in some of the most cruel ways imaginable.  In the Nanking Massacre, Japanese soldiers would rape and kill elderly Chinese women and babies and were fond of cutting open pregnant Chinese women, impaling the fetus on the bayonet and parading it around the street to impress other japanese soldiers.  Japanese doctors and scientists in Unit 731 (which was part of the Japanese army) would perform bizarre medical experiments on Chinese civilians like cutting off a man's arms and re-attaching the left arm to the right side and the right arm to the left side to see what would happen; they would surgically remove a man's stomach and attach the esophagus directly to the small intestine to see what would happen, and would perform these surgeries without anesthesia because the doctors feared anesthesia would affect the experiment's results.  The History Channel made a documentary about these experiments--"Unit 731--Nightmare in Manchurai" detailing these and many other horrifying experiments, here's the link:

 

The Japanese soldiers were incredibly cruel to their American prisoners, like in the Bataan Death March and many other examples.  The Japanese soldiers believed in Bushido--death before dishonor, a very tiny percentage of Japanese soldiers were ever captured alive, and the Japanese believed that any soldier who surrendered wasn't human and that's why they treated American prisoners and other surrendered allied soldiers with contempt.

 

The imperial japanese soldiers were also cannibals.  When I was doing research on Japan's occupation of China, some photos of murdered naked chinese women showed rectangular patches missing from their inner thighs.  I found out the reason for this is the japanese soldiers would take these strips of flesh for filling for their dumplings.  Just look up Japanese atrocities on Wikipedia and cannibalism is one of the atrocities.  Some american prisoners were kept alive and had their limbs removed one at time, to be eaten by the japanese, but the prisoners were kept alive to keep the meat fresh.  The japanese soldiers literally make today's ISIS look like boy scouts.  And some Japanese soldiers held out even after Japan's surrender, for many years, even decades--see this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout

Lt. Hiroo Onoda didn't surrender until March of 1974.  I repeat, 1974.  29 years after the war ended!!  I used to think the Japanese soldiers were brave for never surrendering, but really, they were just plain nuts.

This is the kind of fanatacism the American soldiers had to fight and defeat.  From 1942--1945, U.S. marines and soldiers had to fight on island after island, fighting the insane Japanese soldiers who would always fight to the death.  The wounded japanese soldiers would even call out to the american medics, and when the american medics tried to help them (out of compassion), the soldier would set off a grenade to kill himself and the american medic/corpman.  The Japanese also used human shields in the Battle of Okinawa (using Okinawan civilians as shields).

All of this is why they were considered the 'greatest generation' and in my opinion today's generations would shrivel up and cower if faced with what the greatest generation had to endure.  I haven't even mentioned the beach landing on Normandy during D-Day, and the bravery required.

Of course, you could also make the argument that Hitler and Stalin were also part of the greatest generation, and so that negates any good.  I'm a part of the younger generation of course, but I have nothing but awe for the 'greatest' generation.

What do you think of the 'greatest generation'?

[raymondc27]

hey thanks for writing an amazing piece, it's sad how our generation would not and will not learn about these historic events unless they are force to learn in school. i personally love to learn about history because it teaches me so much about life and things going on. The previous generation was willing to take an extra step and do things in ways not many are willing to do today. Then again when things happen especially warfare, there're things that is uncontrollable because if you look more in depth of it, comrades solders are allowed to kill those of threat , yes a lot of killings here and there and less complication on what our society has become, at there time in life, they take it in, swallow it, fix it, fight it, and move on. what we have now is a lot of new generation people with depression and it's sad, i had it before also but i fought it because i wanted to change for the better,

[MakahaMusic]

With the 70th anniversary of the end of World War 2 coming up, there is a debate that continues today about whether the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan was needed to end the war.  I personally believe it was Karma, considering the tremendous suffering Imperial Japan inflicted on civilian populations throughout the Pacific.  One of the main reasons given for the use of atomic weapons is that if the United States and its allies had to stage an invasion of Japan, the casualties that the Allies would sustain would be unacceptably high.  During the Battle of Okinawa, the Allies got a glimpse of what the invasion of the main Japanese islands might look like.  Most of the Imperial Japanese soldiers fought to the death and also convinced many Okinawan citizens to kill themselves by jumping off cliffs, instead of surrendering to the Americans who were said to be "raping white apes who would torture and kill prisoners."

 

I used to think that the Japanese soldiers were brave for not surrendering, but as it turns out, they were just plain nuts.  Some Japanese soldiers didn't surrender after Japan officially surrendered.  These hold outs didn't surrender for years and even decades after the war ended.  Lt. Hiroo Onoda didn't surrender until March of 1974.  I repeat, 1974.  29 years after the war ended!!  See this link to read more about how fanatic the japanese were:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout

They were some of the worst mass rapists in history:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre#Rape

During the Rape of Nanking in December 1937, Japanese soldiers would rape and kill elderly Chinese women and babies, and were known to cut open pregnant Chinese women, impaling the fetus on the bayonet and parading it around the street to impress other japanese soldiers  In interviews after the war, some japanese soldiers said that all the soldiers raped Chinese women during the occupation of China, it was expected of you as a sort of rite of passage.

They were also cannibals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Cannibalism

In his book Flyboys: A True Story of Courage, author James Bradley talks about how President Bush 1 (George H.W. Bush) who was a pilot in WW2, recently discovered a few years ago through recently declassified documents of a war crimes trial in 1946, that 5 of his crewmates were eaten by Japanese soldiers, via a confession of a captured Japanese soldier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyboys:_A_True_Story_of_Courage

It was the kind of culture in Imperial Japan that created these raping, mass-murdering Japanese soldiers.

And Japanese doctors and scientists were just as bad.  Unit 731 (which was part of the Imperial Japanese Army) consisted of some of the finest Japanese doctors and scientists, who committed some of the most brutal war crimes in history.  They conduct bizarre medical experiments on Chinese civilians like cutting off a man's arms and re-attaching the left arm to the right side and the right arm to the left side to see what would happen; they would give Chinese children anthrax laced candy and when the children started to get sick, at gunpoint, they would walk into the child's home and cut open the child to see how the disease was progressing in the body.  And worst of all, they wouldn't use any anesthesia, because the doctors feared it would affect the test results.  The History Channel made a documentary about these medical experiments--"Unit 731--Nightmare in Manchuria" detailing these and many other horrifying experiments--it talks about the situation I mentioned about giving Chinese children anthrax laced candy, here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZW38-WXdyM

 

I don't think all Japanese of that time were bad.  I mean Japanese-Americans were awesome, and honorable (BTW I'm 1/4 Japanese, and 1/2 Chinese, 1/4 Hawaiian).  I mean look at the 442nd Infantry Regiment during World War 2, which was composed solely of Japanese-Americans, and the 442nd was the most decorated American Army unit in the entire history of the U.S. Army!!  They earned 21 Medals of Honor.  21!  You're lucky if you get just one Medal of Honor per Division.  The 442nd was just a regiment-sized unit and it had 21 Medals of Honor!  That's just mind boggling.  Not to mention they earned 52 Distinguished Service Crosses and 560 Silver Stars--all incredible numbers.  Some say the reason they were so brave was that they wanted to prove their loyalty to their own country the USA.
All this, while their families were in internment camps on the West Coast because they were not trusted by the U.S. Government because they were at war with Japan.  It's quite an amazing story.Here's an article on Wikipedia about the 442nd:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

So obviously it wasn't the Japanese race/ethnicity that was the problem.  I think it was just Japanese culture in Japan that was at least partly responsible for how the IJA turned out.  I mean compare/contrast the Imperial Japanese Army soldiers who were the most brutal soldiers of all time, with the Japanese-Americans of the 442nd regiment who were some of the most awesome and honorable soldiers of all time.

 

If you say that you can't blame the Japanese civilians for what the soldiers and government of japan did, well look at the Arab Spring in recent years, and the overthrow of their governments.  If the japanese people were so honorable, why didn't they just overthrow their corrupt government like how the people overthrew their Arab governments.

And how about the Japanese soldiers' parents?  Were they not at least partly responsible for how they turned out?  Weren't they taught about the preciousness of life?  Should we not hold the parents at least partly responsible?

And the Japanese were so arrogant.  The whole attitude of Imperial Japan at the time was "all the rest of the asian nations are too stupid to stand up to western nations so we have to take over asia for them and rule them to save them from themselves"  I remember reading that some Japanese anthropologists went to rural towns in Korea and used those towns as proof of how backwards the Koreans were and that proved the Japanese were superior and should occupy Korea. SMH

I used to hate my own country, the United States, for using atomic weapons on Japan, but after during research on Japan's occupation of China, I changed my mind, and I now feel that Japan had it coming. 

 

What is your view on this?  Do you think it was Karma?

 

[Guest severus]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. 

 

And really, the word "deserved" is never really relevant when discussing war. 

[zantac_2]

you know who we havent seen in a while? that poster who talks about finding nude photos of her (or something along those lines) in her fathers desk drawers.

[Chrissy Chou :)]

I am not sure if this discussion is even appropriate. Things like this can offend a handful of people.

But, in war, of course there will be sufferings and killings, but no one deserves to get bombed at. No one.

[MakahaMusic]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. 

 

And really, the word "deserved" is never really relevant when discussing war. 

An eye for an eye?

Isn't that what capital punishment/death penalty is?  It's revenge, and it's legal, well in some states.

[edidi]

Sounds like a high school essay with the bad references and grammar. Could focus your argument a bit more rather than just be a one sided argument mostly to discredit Japan for their past deeds.

Every country has had a bad past. The Russians also had some barbarity in WW2 due to lack of supplies and desperation. You do have a point though and the Japanese did do some terrible things in the Sino-Japanese wars. Tactics play an important part in any war. Scare tactics have been used widely and for centuries and not just in Japan. The impaling of heads from the medieval age onward in Europe. The Sino-Japanese wars is why China and Japan have bad blood after all these years. Takes a long time to heal these wounds and right a wrong.

Maybe younger generation should be conscripted into basic training to toughen up like some countries do. Most important thing today's generations need to learn how to be human so the past doesn't come to light again. We are slowly getting there with equality and democracy. I personally say the older generations were braver but not greater than the current generation. We are the ones who are fixing the older generations problems.

[MakahaMusic]

hey thanks for writing an amazing piece, it's sad how our generation would not and will not learn about these historic events unless they are force to learn in school. i personally love to learn about history because it teaches me so much about life and things going on. The previous generation was willing to take an extra step and do things in ways not many are willing to do today. 

Thanks, and that generation is almost gone.  Most of those that are still living are in their mid 90s, although a few are younger, like Sidney Phillips who lied about his age when he joined the marines--he was only 17.  Back then, identity security wasn't as it is now.

I mentioned the Battle of Okinawa in the OP and the Japanese soldiers use of human shields.  Here's a clip from the HBO series The Pacific from episode 9.  (The whole series of The Pacific was based mostly on the diaries and books of two marines, Eugene Sledge and Robert Leckie.)

In this clip Eugene Sledge is the marine that says "Oh, no!" when he realizes the Japanese soldiers strapped explosives onto that Okinawan woman holding the baby.  What the short clip doesn't show is that right after clip ends, more Okinawan civlians come walking down that path with a Japanese soldiers hiding directly behind them and then the Japanese soldiers start shooting at the marines.  The marines are then forced to shoot through and kill the civilians in order to kill the japanese soldeirs hiding behind them, or else be shot themselves.  Here's the clip:

 

In The Pacific, before Eugene Sledge joins the marines, his father (who was a surgeon during World War 1), said that what was the most horrible thing about performing surgery on the WW1 wounded wasn't that their flesh was torn, but that they had their souls torn out.  He warns Eugene that he would be heartbroken if one day, he looked into his eyes and saw that he had no life, no spark, because of what the horrors of war can do to a man, which becomes prophetic.  At the start of the series, Eugene is a strong Christian and optimistic.  By the end of the series, he is a broken young man.

[odaesan]

Sounds like a high school essay with the bad references and grammar. Could focus your argument a bit more rather than just be a one sided argument mostly to discredit Japan for their past deeds.

Every country has had a bad past. The Russians also had some barbarity in WW2 due to lack of supplies and desperation. You do have a point though and the Japanese did do some terrible things in the Sino-Japanese wars. Tactics play an important part in any war. Scare tactics have been used widely and for centuries and not just in Japan. The impaling of heads from the medieval age onward in Europe. The Sino-Japanese wars is why China and Japan have bad blood after all these years. Takes a long time to heal these wounds and right a wrong.

Maybe younger generation should be conscripted into basic training to toughen up like some countries do. Most important thing today's generations need to learn how to be human so the past doesn't come to light again. We are slowly getting there with equality and democracy. I personally say the older generations were braver but not greater than the current generation. We are the ones who are fixing the older generations problems.

This. It's like you just came out of high school World History class.

[Guest EscapeEarth]

Merged two threads bashing the Japanese, closed.

As a former history major, I appreciate historical content. But your threads seem like a very thinly-veiled attempt to bash Japanese, which is not allowed here at Soompi (nor the bashing of any other ethnicity). Message me if you have any questions.