|WGM Chinese Version| We Are In Love - BF Choi Siwon |SUJU| and GF Liu Wen |Victoria Secret Model|

[teamsongsong]

In episode 10,

When they were making the coconut candy, not sure if it was the steam that made the Chief tear up or he was indeed very touched by Siwon and Liu Wen's love. I would have to say the Chief was just very emotionally touched by their love.  This episode was seriously so sweet. The two couldn't stop letting the world know how lucky they both feel to have each other.

Liu Wen: He always says he's very lucky but I have to say I'm very lucky as well. 

-----

Later on when the two were sitting down by the shack waiting for the rain to stop.

Siwon: I'm a lucky guy.

Liu Wen: I'm a lucky girl.

Siwon: I'm lucky. You're okay. (emphasizing heavily to Liu Wen how lucky he feels to be her boyfriend).

-----

What's most beautiful between Siwon and Liu Wen is the love they give each other in the form of small gestures. Such as Siwon's immediate instinct to block the rain for Liu Wen and Liu Wen's gentle care throughout the episodes - helping Siwon wipe his sweat, etc. The smallest gestures are often time the most simple and purest form of love. 

In response to earlier posts, sometimes we might hear Liu Wen stutter a bit when calling Siwon her boyfriend but remember, Liu Wen is a very shy and conservative girl deep inside. Imagine having so many cameras and eyes looking at you, that heightens her shyness probably at least 95%. I think her stuttering and nervousness just comes from being shy when proposed with intimate/relationship questions. She's become so much more comfortable and brave since the previous episodes. Such as during the facial mask part, she told Siwon that it's okay, they're boyfriend and girlfriend now, he can lay on her bed so that she can put the mask on him (even though Siwon respectfully goes back to the couch chair later, lol). This really shows how much they respect and take into consideration of the people around them (not wanting to make things awkward for those around them, etc.) and their viewers (considering their own family members and younger fans who are watching, too. they really set a good example for the young generation. how a female should respect herself and how a male should respect women, etc.). The affection they show each other is what makes us all hope that they do officially end up together in real life. 

In regards to doubts and inquiries about their relationship due to their differing levels of maturity. I personally feel that they both balance each other out very well. Liu Wen learns from Siwon that everything in life is about having a healthy balance. I was also disturbed by how Siwon barged into Liu Wen's make-up office back in episode 5 but having seen how Liu Wen's been handling things and communicates with Siwon, plus, in real life such as how she graciously settled the ridiculous rumor regarding Sui He, I feel that Liu Wen wouldn't have a problem communicating how she, as a girlfriend, should be treated should Siwon throw a fit like that again.

It's true he really is a lucky guy to have found Liu Wen and vice versa.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2015 by teamwonwen

[Guest]

Wow lovecircles! your post was spot on. Many ELF would indeed start a war over this but believe it or not many long time ELF like me won't. But you saved me the trouble of explaining a few things. As fans we have heard everything and I mean everything. I mean when you have people wishing your idol dead after his car accident (kyuhyun) you have gone through it all. Or how about other fandoms making fun of leeteuk when his dad commited suicide and murdered his grandparents? So yeah this is small potatoes indeed. I do think it's fruitless to compare who had it tougher or easier. What does it accomplish?

As far as allnaturalcrunchtime it's obvious she has blinders on for Liu Wen and you know what I understand this cuz that's her idol so it's natural. I just wish she wouldn't just assume things and declare things without knowing you know?  For example eunhyuk lived in a one room house with no indoor plumbing so yeah I'm sure that was rough. I'm cool with discussing different points of view but at least come in with some knowledge before going in with guns blazing.

I think they're both very admirable in what they do and have succeeded greatly in their perspective fields. I sincerely hope they both continue to be successful in their fields for a long time or as long as they want to 

I agree with everything you wrote for your post as well. It's scary to see all of this though.
And one has to keep in mind that Korean celebrities do read the comments mentioned on social media platforms and some of them are more active in using their social media platforms as well

[teamsongsong]

Siwon 'Liked' Liu Wen's 1 million thank you video! 

 

Edited July 6, 2015 by teamwonwen

[siwonie407]

ep10 with eng sub already out guys 

thanks yao li  

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

I'm sorry if I sound rude or something among those lines but I am going to speak very bluntly. I will also express that I am not a huge fan of Liu Wen nor Siwon. As an outsider, I don't think it's fair for us to say who had an "easier", "harder" or "tougher" life as we are not them nor know what they consider as to be challenging. After all, everyone is different and would react differently. What may be challenging  may be easy to some. Also, to claim that Siwon had everything easy and got everything he wanted due to his background and Liuwen had to start from zero isn't really a fair comparison at all, especially when the occupations between the two of them are different and as a result, they have different expectations. Also, to say that Liu Wen's life experiences surpasses all of Super Junior's members and makes her more "grown up" is a HUGE claim and a huge diss in many ways.  It's also not needed as these words could HURT someone. If this statement of yours, "And it's not just Siwon; she's probably more grown-up than all of Super Junior combined." was posted on another social media platform or if any Super Junior hardcore fans see it, I think you would have caused a war between Super Junior's fans, Siwon's fans and Liu Wen's fans. It doesn't take much to start a fandom war on a social media platform.

Stop putting words in my mouth. Just because I said Liu Wen never had anything handed to her on a platter and had to work hard for everything does NOT mean I'm implying that Siwon had it differently. And I said she is "probably" more grown-up than the Super Junior members; I have no way of knowing if she is for sure, of course, but I've read up on her and observed her behavior and have now done the same with Super Junior, and it is very clear TO ME who acts more like a mature, grown-up adult. YMMV - maybe the antics of the SJ members correspond to how YOU perceive grown-up adults to behave in the real world, but they certainly don't fit in with my viewpoint. Also, nowhere did I ever say that Siwon "had everything easy and got everything he wanted due to his background" - you are obviously overreacting in his and SJ's defense because you're either a huge fan of the band or K-Pop. Again, when I say this and that in relation to Liu Wen, I am NOT implying the opposite about Siwon. Do I think his wealthy background has helped him in his career? I'm sure it's had an influence however minute, but that doesn't mean I think he hasn't had to work hard to get to where he is today.

As I said before, I don't doubt the SJ members' work ethics, but due to the environment which they've grown up and been nurtured in, it is quite understandable why many of them behave essentially like, well, boys. It's not their fault; they just happen to have lived in somewhat sheltered circumstances. I know enough about life to know that growing up with little means in backwater China and then being dumped in N.Y. at the age of 19/20 and probably living in a dingy closed space with no money and no language skills is likely harder than what many of the SJ members (especially Siwon) have had to go through, and would tend to lead to one being a more mature human being overall. These are my impressions based on the life knowledge I've acquired and based on the research I've done on Liu Wen and Siwon, and I'm perfectly entitled to them just as you are to yours. And you have some nerve in accusing me of belittling SJ's achievements when you act as if rising to the top in such a cutthroat and fickle world that is the modelling industry simply involves how expertly Liu Wen shakes her booty on catwalks and in front of the camera. I could talk about what I think of SJ's talents, 'music', and how they aren't exactly setting the world alight in terms of artistic achievements, in addition to the primary audience and demographic they seem to cater to, but I haven't.

 

[Guest]

"you are obviously overreacting in his and SJ's defense because you're either a huge fan of the band or K-Pop"

1) Did you not read my first few statements? I explicitly said that I was NOT a huge fan of Siwon nor Liuwen. I only heard of both of them several months ago. However, I have recently done a research paper on the rise of K-pop and that I'm currently doing a degree in Communications which requires me to be more critical. So I do have a general idea of what K-pop stars went through and along with academic papers that talk about training in these companies and about the historical background of the the three major entertainment companies in S. Korea, I also have been watching Sixteen, which showcases 16 trainees who are with JYP Entertainment. And I was speaking frankly not overreacting.

2) Right now on my Itunes, I don't even HAVE any Super Junior's songs at all. So no, I'm not a huge fan of the band. However, I am a fan of k-pop but I do listen to other genres of music such as Cantopop, American pop, classical, Disney songs.

3) When you are training or even some singers now, you are separated from your family. Most of these trainees or even the singers now live in dorms. There are other singers who are foreign and who came to Korea on their own. They also started out with nothing and worked their hardest to get to where they are today. Examples: Fei of Miss A, Henry from SJ-M, Amber from f(x), Tiffany from SNSD, Kris who used to be part of EXO.

4) I'm not trying to compare who had it worse type of thing but Liu Wen wasn't "dumped" in New York. According to http://ca.askmen.com/celebs/women/model/liu-wen/, after her graduation, she was encouraged by her friend/mother to enter in the 2005 New Silk Modelling Contest and that was how her career blossomed despite she didn't win in that contest but she "caught the eye of many prominent industry types". And because later on, "Big time Parisian modeling agency Marilyn took notice and signed the budding star in 2008. That relationship gave her the contacts she needed to start working runway shows in fashion capitals like Milan, Miami and New York. " And according to another source (http://www.businessoffashion.com/community/people/liu-wen), "Wen started her modelling career in 2005 as a contestant in the New Silk Road World Model Contest. Although she initially just wanted to win the grand prize – a computer – Wen quickly landed full-time work with features in Chinese editions of Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar. In September 2007, having caught the eye of international stylists and casting directors, she was signed to Parisian modelling agency Marilyn. Wen debuted on international fashion week catwalks in 2008, walking for Burberry, Trussardi, Chanel and Jean Paul Gaultier. Liu has since walked in shows for Tom Ford, Proenza Schouler and Hugo Boss, and has also fronted campaigns for the likes of Tory Burch, Lane Crawford, Roberto Cavalli and Tiffany’s". And another source (http://www.thestyleceleb.com/2012/04/model-behavior-liu-wens-meteoric-rise.html) mentions how "a modeling contract is a holy grail for any model. To have an Asian face represent that, a whole 100 percent Asian born and bred face represent that, that's amazing."-Joe Zee, Elle Magazine’s creative director "

5) It doesn't matter if you said probably or not in this statement "she is "probably" more grown-up than the Super Junior members". That statement alone CAN cause a fandom war. Am I exaggerating that it can cause a fandom war? Not necessarily. The littlest things can start one.

6) "And you have some nerve in accusing me of belittling SJ's achievements when you act as if rising to the top in such a cutthroat and fickle world that is the modelling industry simply involves how expertly Liu Wen shakes her booty on catwalks and in front of the camera"
All I said was compared to other Super Junior members, Liu Wen, and Siwon, other Super Junior members and Siwon have more things to worry about and to gain approval among their family members, company and their fans because a group/singer's success depends on whether or not their fans like the music. And if fans don't like the music they're producing, they won't purchase or even listen to it. Same thing with acting. If a person doesn't like someone's acting, they are less likely to watch the drama/movie. They also need to take care of their bodies and their voices. But in order for a model to be successful, they need to get the approval from the model management team AND the fashion designer's approval. And as a model, being photogenic in front of a camera is a key factor. I never mentioned anything about "how expertly Liu Wen shakes her booty on catwalks and in front of the camera". And finally, to be in k-pop music industry for ten years as a group isn't easy and is considered to be "rare". I am not overexaggerating but the average of years for a group to be together is 5-6 years and according to other k-pop fans, the first five years is very important. And so for Super Junior to have its 10th year, It takes a lot of effort and hardwork from all of the members to make that happen. And this year, 2015 is the 10th year for Siwon AND Liu Wen as they both debuted in 2005 in their respective field.

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

"you are obviously overreacting in his and SJ's defense because you're either a huge fan of the band or K-Pop"

1) Did you not read my first few statements? I explicitly said that I was NOT a huge fan of Siwon nor Liuwen. I only heard of both of them several months ago. However, I have recently done a research paper on the rise of K-pop and that I'm currently doing a degree in Communications which requires me to be more critical. So I do have a general idea of what K-pop stars went through and along with academic papers that talk about training in these companies and about the historical background of the the three major entertainment companies in S. Korea, I also have been watching Sixteen, which showcases 16 trainees who are with JYP Entertainment. And I was speaking frankly not overreacting.

2) Right now on my Itunes, I don't even HAVE any Super Junior's songs at all. So no, I'm not a huge fan of the band. However, I am a fan of k-pop but I do listen to other genres of music such Cantopop, American pop, classical, Disney sons.

3) When you are training or even some singers now, you are separated from your family. Most of these trainees or even the singers now live in dorms. There are other singers who are foreign and who came to Korea on their own. They also started out with nothing and worked their hardest to get to where they are today. Examples: Fei of Miss A, Henry from SJ-M, Amber from f(x), Tiffany from SNSD.

4) I'm not trying to compare who had it worse type of thing but Liu Wen wasn't "dumped" in New York. According to http://ca.askmen.com/celebs/women/model/liu-wen/, after her graduation, she was encouraged by her friend to enter in the 2005 New Silk Modelling Contest and that was how her career blossomed despite she didn't win in that contest but she "caught the eye of many prominent industry types". And because later on, "Big time Parisian modeling agency Marilyn took notice and signed the budding star in 2008. That relationship gave her the contacts she needed to start working runway shows in fashion capitals like Milan, Miami and New York. " 

5) It doesn't matter if you said probably or not in this statement "she is "probably" more grown-up than the Super Junior members". That statement alone CAN cause a fandom war. Am I exaggerating that it can cause a fandom war? Not necessarily. The littlest things can start one.

6) "And you have some nerve in accusing me of belittling SJ's achievements when you act as if rising to the top in such a cutthroat and fickle world that is the modelling industry simply involves how expertly Liu Wen shakes her booty on catwalks and in front of the camera"
All I said was compared to Super Junior members and Siwon, they have more things to worry about and to gain approval among their family members, company and their fans because a group/singer's success depends on whether or not their fans like the music. And if fans don't like the music they're producing, they won't purchase or even listen to it. Same thing with acting. If a person doesn't someone's acting, they are less likely to watch the drama/movie. But in order for a model to be successful, they really just need to get the approval from the model management team AND the fashion designer's approval. And as a model, being photogenic in front of a camera is a key factor. I never mentioned anything about "how expertly Liu Wen shakes her booty on catwalks and in front of the camera".

Talk about not reading statements - I said if you're either a huge fan of SJ or K-Pop and you've just admitted you're a fan of the latter, so that explains your over the top defense in your earlier post. Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting.

And spare me your scholarly education on K-Pop - I've read up enough on it to form cogent opinions on the subject, thank you.

Way to go in taking it literally when I said she was "dumped" in N.Y. - I know she entered a modelling contest in Hunan and then was in Beijing for 1 or 2 years (she's said that move alone was a bit of a culture shock) and finally ended up in N.Y. Her own words tell me that she was living out of two suitcases and couldn't speak a word of English when she arrived, so that'd be enough to make her feel like she'd been "dumped" from one daunting city to one that's even more so. I don't want to get into a who had it worse type of thing either, but it's obvious Liu Wen is more mature than many of the SJ 'boys' despite being younger in age, so shedding some light on their life paths might help to explain why that's the case.

I also don't give a toss if anything I've said causes a fandom war or any such shite - if that happens, it'll only confirm the low opinion I have of these ELFs and others of their ilk.

Lastly, I'm familiar enough with the Asian entertainment industry to notice that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad that it's no ringing endorsement that they've got such huge numbers of fans; it says more about the audiences' tastes than anything else. So yeah, I definitely don't think SJ has to worry about that much, certainly nothing compared to what a true artist has to worry about. I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music.  And you might not have said exactly what I said you did in relation to Liu Wen and modelling, but you were clearly trying to undermine her achievements in comparison with Siwon's, so that statement of mine stands in its intended effect.

 

 

 

[Guest cr1mson]

In episode 10,

When they were making the coconut candy, not sure if it was the steam that made the Chief tear up or he was indeed very touched by Siwon and Liu Wen's love. I would have to say the Chief was just very emotionally touched by their love.  This episode was seriously so sweet. The two couldn't stop letting the world know how lucky they both feel to have each other.

 

Liu Wen: He always says he's very lucky but I have to say I'm very lucky as well. 

-----

Later on when the two were sitting down by the shack waiting for the rain to stop.

Siwon: I'm a lucky guy.

Liu Wen: I'm a lucky girl.

Siwon: I'm lucky. You're okay. (emphasizing heavily to Liu Wen how lucky he feels to be her boyfriend).

-----

What's most beautiful between Siwon and Liu Wen is the love they give each other in the form of small gestures. Such as Siwon's immediate instinct to block the rain for Liu Wen and Liu Wen's gentle care throughout the episodes - helping Siwon wipe his sweat, etc. The smallest gestures are often time the most simple and purest form of love. 

In response to earlier posts, sometimes we might hear Liu Wen stutter a bit when calling Siwon her boyfriend but remember, Liu Wen is a very shy and conservative girl deep inside. Imagine having so many cameras and eyes looking at you, that heightens her shyness probably at least 95%. I think her stuttering and nervousness just comes from being shy when proposed with intimate/relationship questions. She's become so much more comfortable and brave since the previous episodes. Such as during the facial mask part, she told Siwon that it's okay, they're boyfriend and girlfriend now, he can lay on her bed so that she can put the mask on him (even though Siwon respectfully goes back to the couch chair later, lol). This really shows how much they respect and take into consideration of the people around them (not wanting to make things awkward for those around them, etc.) and their viewers (considering their own family members and younger fans who are watching, too. they really set a good example for the young generation. how a female should respect herself and how a male should respect women, etc.). The affection they show each other is what makes us all hope that they do officially end up together in real life. 

In regards to doubts and inquiries about their relationship due to their differing levels of maturity. I personally feel that they both balance each other out very well. Liu Wen learns from Siwon that everything in life is about having a healthy balance. I was also disturbed by how Siwon barged into Liu Wen's make-up office back in episode 5 but having seen how Liu Wen's been handling things and communicates with Siwon, plus, in real life such as how she graciously settled the ridiculous rumor regarding Sui He, I feel that Liu Wen wouldn't have a problem communicating how she, as a girlfriend, should be treated should Siwon throw a fit like that again.

It's true he really is a lucky guy to have found Liu Wen and vice versa.

The Chief tears because of smoke indeed.

They both lucky, we are the not so lucky as we fight each other where we supposed to support both of them in this thread LOL

[Guest]

1)   I am not undermining her achievements. I'm simply saying that while Super Junior's success is hugely dependent on their fans, Liu Wen's success is more dependent on fashion industry critics, the fashion designer, the companies who asks her to model their items and the model management agencies. Her success doesn't depend on her fans. That was my intention and the main reason why I don't think it's necessary or valid to compare the two of them of who had it "easier", "harder", "tougher" because their careers require them different things.

2)  "Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting." Although I am a fan of k-pop, it doesn't mean that I am being over-the-top or overreacting. I will know when I am overreacting and when I am speaking frankly. And if I was speaking out of line, wrong about something or being overly defensive, other users (other than you) or even the Soompi moderators would call me out on it or saying that I'm wrong about a certain issue.

3) "I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music."  I think that for this statement, it depends on the interviewer's intention behind making music and making movies. Because for some artists, "making music", "artist" and "singer" have different meanings. A good example of this would be G-Dragon. G-Dragon was asked the question of "what makes Big Bang different from other groups?". G-Dragon mentioned "We make our own music." as in they produce/compose/arrange their own music. And so when Siwon was asked that, he could be either thinking of that as well and it would depend on what the interviewer meant by making music as well.

4) And if "that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad", I wonder how did these people who lack artistic talent be so popular in Asia, overseas, and in Korea. I also wonder how did the big entertainment companies have signed deals with Google or ended up with millions of views on their channels.

5) As for this statement of yours, "I also don't give a toss if anything I've said causes a fandom war or any such shite - if that happens, it'll only confirm the low opinion I have of these ELFs and others of their ilk", I really like how these soompi users have written on another post/article. "if that person didn't want to face any consequences than 100% they shouldn't have said it. They have every right to say whatever they like, for sure, but that doesn't mean they are exempt from whatever consequences come from it." and "They need to be held responsible for their actions."

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

1)   I am not undermining her achievements. I'm simply saying that while Super Junior's success is hugely dependent on their fans, Liu Wen's success is more dependent on fashion industry critics, the fashion designer, the companies who asks her to model their items and the model management agencies. Her success doesn't depend on her fans. That was my intention and the main reason why I don't think it's necessary or valid to compare the two of them of who had it "easier", "harder", "tougher" because their careers require them different things.

2)  "Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting." Although I am a fan of k-pop, it doesn't mean that I am being over-the-top or overreacting. I will know when I am overreacting and when I am speaking frankly. And if I was speaking out of line, wrong about something or being overly defensive, other users (other than you) or even the Soompi moderators would call me out on it or saying that I'm wrong about a certain issue.

3) "I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music."  I think that for this statement, it depends on the interviewer's intention behind making music and making movies. Because for some artists, "making music", "artist" and "singer" have different meanings. A good example of this would be G-Dragon. G-Dragon was asked the question of "what makes Big Bang different from other groups?". G-Dragon mentioned "We make our own music." as in they produce/compose/arrange their own music. And so when Siwon was asked that, he could be either thinking of that as well and it would depend on what the interviewer meant by making music as well.

4) And if "that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad", I wonder how did these people who lack artistic talent be so popular in Asia, overseas, and in Korea. I also wonder how did the big entertainment companies have signed deals with Google or ended up with millions of views on their channels.

I have only compared Liu Wen and SJ in terms of who's had it harder because I was trying to illustrate why I think she's more mature than these 'boys'. I wasn't trying to draw any parallels between their careers; you started doing that in your first response to me, and you did so because you overreacted by imputing notions to me that I'd never voiced such as SJ and Siwon have never had to work hard for their success and have had everything handed to them on a platter.

Additionally, if Siwon means that his band doesn't make their own music, that reinforces my opinion that SJ doesn't have a whole lot to do in comparison with what real artistes do; real artistes have to worry about the truly back-breaking and soul-searching work, which is composing their own music/product.

And my dear, if you think that shite like My Love from the Star deserves its one trillion views in China because it possesses true artistic merit, there's no point in even continuing this discussion with you.

[Guest]

1)   I am not undermining her achievements. I'm simply saying that while Super Junior's success is hugely dependent on their fans, Liu Wen's success is more dependent on fashion industry critics, the fashion designer, the companies who asks her to model their items and the model management agencies. Her success doesn't depend on her fans. That was my intention and the main reason why I don't think it's necessary or valid to compare the two of them of who had it "easier", "harder", "tougher" because their careers require them different things.

2)  "Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting." Although I am a fan of k-pop, it doesn't mean that I am being over-the-top or overreacting. I will know when I am overreacting and when I am speaking frankly. And if I was speaking out of line, wrong about something or being overly defensive, other users (other than you) or even the Soompi moderators would call me out on it or saying that I'm wrong about a certain issue.

3) "I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music."  I think that for this statement, it depends on the interviewer's intention behind making music and making movies. Because for some artists, "making music", "artist" and "singer" have different meanings. A good example of this would be G-Dragon. G-Dragon was asked the question of "what makes Big Bang different from other groups?". G-Dragon mentioned "We make our own music." as in they produce/compose/arrange their own music. And so when Siwon was asked that, he could be either thinking of that as well and it would depend on what the interviewer meant by making music as well.

4) And if "that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad", I wonder how did these people who lack artistic talent be so popular in Asia, overseas, and in Korea. I also wonder how did the big entertainment companies have signed deals with Google or ended up with millions of views on their channels.

I have only compared Liu Wen and SJ in terms of who's had it harder because I was trying to illustrate why I think she's more mature than these 'boys'. I wasn't trying to draw any parallels between their careers; you started doing that in your first response to me, and you did so because you overreacted by imputing notions to me that I'd never voiced such as SJ and Siwon have never had to work hard for their success and have had everything handed to them on a platter.

Additionally, if Siwon means that his band doesn't make their own music, that reinforces my opinion that SJ doesn't have a whole lot to do in comparison with what real artistes do; real artistes have to worry about the truly back-breaking and soul-searching work, which is composing their own music/product.

And my dear, if you think that shite like My Love from the Star deserves its one trillion views in China because it possesses true artistic merit, there's no point in even continuing this discussion with you.

1)   I am not undermining her achievements. I'm simply saying that while Super Junior's success is hugely dependent on their fans, Liu Wen's success is more dependent on fashion industry critics, the fashion designer, the companies who asks her to model their items and the model management agencies. Her success doesn't depend on her fans. That was my intention and the main reason why I don't think it's necessary or valid to compare the two of them of who had it "easier", "harder", "tougher" because their careers require them different things.

2)  "Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting." Although I am a fan of k-pop, it doesn't mean that I am being over-the-top or overreacting. I will know when I am overreacting and when I am speaking frankly. And if I was speaking out of line, wrong about something or being overly defensive, other users (other than you) or even the Soompi moderators would call me out on it or saying that I'm wrong about a certain issue.

3) "I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music."  I think that for this statement, it depends on the interviewer's intention behind making music and making movies. Because for some artists, "making music", "artist" and "singer" have different meanings. A good example of this would be G-Dragon. G-Dragon was asked the question of "what makes Big Bang different from other groups?". G-Dragon mentioned "We make our own music." as in they produce/compose/arrange their own music. And so when Siwon was asked that, he could be either thinking of that as well and it would depend on what the interviewer meant by making music as well.

4) And if "that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad", I wonder how did these people who lack artistic talent be so popular in Asia, overseas, and in Korea. I also wonder how did the big entertainment companies have signed deals with Google or ended up with millions of views on their channels.

I have only compared Liu Wen and SJ in terms of who's had it harder because I was trying to illustrate why I think she's more mature than these 'boys'. I wasn't trying to draw any parallels between their careers; you started doing that in your first response to me, and you did so because you overreacted by imputing notions to me that I'd never voiced such as SJ and Siwon have never had to work hard for their success and have had everything handed to them on a platter.

Additionally, if Siwon means that his band doesn't make their own music, that reinforces my opinion that SJ doesn't have a whole lot to do in comparison with what real artistes do; real artistes have to worry about the truly back-breaking and soul-searching work, which is composing their own music/product.

And my dear, if you think that shite like My Love from the Star deserves its one trillion views in China because it possesses true artistic merit, there's no point in even continuing this discussion with you.

For the third time, please stop accusing me of over-reacting. And I haven't even watched that drama yet but I did hear that it is very popular in Hong Kong and overseas. And composing their own music/product isn't that easy. Some artists/k-pop groups want to compose/arrange/produce their own music but cannot due to their agency regulations. Example: Sistar. Sistar wanted to compose their own songs but they weren't able to because their agency wouldn't let them!  So the question of why is Super Junior not producing/composing their own product would depend on whether or not they allow Super Junior to compose/produce/arrange their own songs.

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

 

For the third time, please stop accusing me of over-reacting. And I haven't even watched that drama yet but I did hear that it is very popular in Hong Kong and overseas. And composing their own music/product isn't that easy. Some artists/k-pop groups want to compose/arrange/produce their own music but cannot due to their agency regulations. Example: Sistar. Sistar wanted to compose their own songs but they weren't able to because their agency wouldn't let them!  So the question of why is Super Junior not producing/composing their own product would depend on whether or not they allow Super Junior to compose/produce/arrange their own songs.

Don't assert I said this or that when I didn't and I won't accuse you of overreacting. If you did that not because you were overreacting, I can only surmise that you were backed into a corner and had to attribute statements to me that I'd never made to bolster your arguments.

And whatever - your continual mewling just proves my point that Siwon doesn't have to work any harder than Liu Wen does. Sure, he may reach a bigger audience because of the nature of his profession, but I'd even go so far as to say that Liu Wen has to worry about more than he does because she's in an industry that's extremely fickle and exacting whereas Siwon simply has to vary the dance moves and the antics and mouth lyrics which are manufactured by the SM factory for an audience with lowbrow taste.

[Guest]

1)   I am not undermining her achievements. I'm simply saying that while Super Junior's success is hugely dependent on their fans, Liu Wen's success is more dependent on fashion industry critics, the fashion designer, the companies who asks her to model their items and the model management agencies. Her success doesn't depend on her fans. That was my intention and the main reason why I don't think it's necessary or valid to compare the two of them of who had it "easier", "harder", "tougher" because their careers require them different things.

2)  "Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting." Although I am a fan of k-pop, it doesn't mean that I am being over-the-top or overreacting. I will know when I am overreacting and when I am speaking frankly. And if I was speaking out of line, wrong about something or being overly defensive, other users (other than you) or even the Soompi moderators would call me out on it or saying that I'm wrong about a certain issue.

3) "I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music."  I think that for this statement, it depends on the interviewer's intention behind making music and making movies. Because for some artists, "making music", "artist" and "singer" have different meanings. A good example of this would be G-Dragon. G-Dragon was asked the question of "what makes Big Bang different from other groups?". G-Dragon mentioned "We make our own music." as in they produce/compose/arrange their own music. And so when Siwon was asked that, he could be either thinking of that as well and it would depend on what the interviewer meant by making music as well.

4) And if "that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad", I wonder how did these people who lack artistic talent be so popular in Asia, overseas, and in Korea. I also wonder how did the big entertainment companies have signed deals with Google or ended up with millions of views on their channels.

I have only compared Liu Wen and SJ in terms of who's had it harder because I was trying to illustrate why I think she's more mature than these 'boys'. I wasn't trying to draw any parallels between their careers; you started doing that in your first response to me, and you did so because you overreacted by imputing notions to me that I'd never voiced such as SJ and Siwon have never had to work hard for their success and have had everything handed to them on a platter.

Additionally, if Siwon means that his band doesn't make their own music, that reinforces my opinion that SJ doesn't have a whole lot to do in comparison with what real artistes do; real artistes have to worry about the truly back-breaking and soul-searching work, which is composing their own music/product.

And my dear, if you think that shite like My Love from the Star deserves its one trillion views in China because it possesses true artistic merit, there's no point in even continuing this discussion with you.

 

1)   I am not undermining her achievements. I'm simply saying that while Super Junior's success is hugely dependent on their fans, Liu Wen's success is more dependent on fashion industry critics, the fashion designer, the companies who asks her to model their items and the model management agencies. Her success doesn't depend on her fans. That was my intention and the main reason why I don't think it's necessary or valid to compare the two of them of who had it "easier", "harder", "tougher" because their careers require them different things.

2)  "Stop imputing comments to me that I never made and I'll consider that you're speaking frankly and not overreacting." Although I am a fan of k-pop, it doesn't mean that I am being over-the-top or overreacting. I will know when I am overreacting and when I am speaking frankly. And if I was speaking out of line, wrong about something or being overly defensive, other users (other than you) or even the Soompi moderators would call me out on it or saying that I'm wrong about a certain issue.

3) "I saw a video interview with Siwon in which the interviewer asked him whether he preferred making music or making movies, and Siwon took issue with the question because he obviously doesn't consider that he makes music."  I think that for this statement, it depends on the interviewer's intention behind making music and making movies. Because for some artists, "making music", "artist" and "singer" have different meanings. A good example of this would be G-Dragon. G-Dragon was asked the question of "what makes Big Bang different from other groups?". G-Dragon mentioned "We make our own music." as in they produce/compose/arrange their own music. And so when Siwon was asked that, he could be either thinking of that as well and it would depend on what the interviewer meant by making music as well.

4) And if "that one doesn't need a whole lot in the way of artistic talent to make it big there. A vast majority of their actors and singers are so atrociously bad", I wonder how did these people who lack artistic talent be so popular in Asia, overseas, and in Korea. I also wonder how did the big entertainment companies have signed deals with Google or ended up with millions of views on their channels.

I have only compared Liu Wen and SJ in terms of who's had it harder because I was trying to illustrate why I think she's more mature than these 'boys'. I wasn't trying to draw any parallels between their careers; you started doing that in your first response to me, and you did so because you overreacted by imputing notions to me that I'd never voiced such as SJ and Siwon have never had to work hard for their success and have had everything handed to them on a platter.

Additionally, if Siwon means that his band doesn't make their own music, that reinforces my opinion that SJ doesn't have a whole lot to do in comparison with what real artistes do; real artistes have to worry about the truly back-breaking and soul-searching work, which is composing their own music/product.

And my dear, if you think that shite like My Love from the Star deserves its one trillion views in China because it possesses true artistic merit, there's no point in even continuing this discussion with you.

For the third time, please stop accusing me of over-reacting. And I haven't even watched that drama yet but I did hear that it is very popular in Hong Kong and overseas. And composing their own music/product isn't that easy. Some artists/k-pop groups want to compose/arrange/produce their own music but cannot due to their agency regulations. Example: Sistar. Sistar wanted to compose their own songs but they weren't able to because their agency wouldn't let them!  So the question of why is Super Junior not producing/composing their own product would depend on whether or not they allow Super Junior to compose/produce/arrange their own songs.

Yeah, I really wanted Sistar to compose their own songs. It would have been daebaek! Their Shake It vid was okay. I liked their Touch their Body a lot! ~

[Guest Janelle22]

Siwon liked liuwen latest ig where she thanked her 1 million followers...omg I'm like screaming loud right now

[stanncie]

 

Siwon just updated his IG/twitter with some of his members. They just finished a 2 day concert at Tokyo Dome with over 100,000 people in attendance  Hey, talented or not they're sure bringing in the dough lol

 

[Guest exactlywhy407]

 

For the third time, please stop accusing me of over-reacting. And I haven't even watched that drama yet but I did hear that it is very popular in Hong Kong and overseas. And composing their own music/product isn't that easy. Some artists/k-pop groups want to compose/arrange/produce their own music but cannot due to their agency regulations. Example: Sistar. Sistar wanted to compose their own songs but they weren't able to because their agency wouldn't let them!  So the question of why is Super Junior not producing/composing their own product would depend on whether or not they allow Super Junior to compose/produce/arrange their own songs.

Don't assert I said this or that when I didn't and I won't accuse you of overreacting. If you did that not because you were overreacting, I can only surmise that you were backed into a corner and had to attribute statements to me that I'd never made to bolster your arguments.

And whatever - your continual mewling just proves my point that Siwon doesn't have to work any harder than Liu Wen does. Sure, he may reach a bigger audience because of the nature of his profession, but I'd even go so far as to say that Liu Wen has to worry about more than he does because she's in an industry that's extremely fickle and exacting whereas Siwon simply has to vary the dance moves and the antics and mouth lyrics which are manufactured by the SM factory for an audience with lowbrow taste.

"where SIwon has to wary the dance moves and the antics and mouth lyrics which are manufactured by SM"

wow, I think you are just not into Kpop at all & never bother to search anything about suju, so yeah its your opinion and sadly thats not the truth. You have no idea how crazy sj members are to prepare their world tour & other things you may not understand.  They have to create, manage and also prepare their performances mostly by their own, & actually I can give you essays how hardworking sj members are during these 10 years.. but I think its useless cos in the end you wont listen. I know how big liuwen in her career but saying other people have less things to worry about their career is not appropriate either.

actually in this thread I rarely see people who say bad about liuwen & I dont understand why you have to look down on other people.

Suju may be not as big as liuwen in this world but why dont we try to respect each other works

[allnaturalcrunchtime_stv]

 

"where SIwon has to wary the dance moves and the antics and mouth lyrics which are manufactured by SM"

wow, I think you are just not into Kpop at all & never bother to search anything about suju, so yeah its your opinion and sadly thats not the truth. You have no idea how crazy sj members are to prepare their world tour & other things you may not understand.  They have to create, manage and also prepare their performances mostly by their own, & actually I can give you essays how hardworking sj members are during these 10 years.. but I think its useless cos in the end you wont listen. I know how big liuwen in her career but saying other people have less things to worry about their career is not appropriate either.

actually in this thread I rarely see people who say bad about liuwen & I dont understand why you have to look down on other people.

Suju may be not as big as liuwen in this world but why dont we try to respect each other works

I think they're very hard workers; I just don't think they're especially talented. To be fair, I don't think Liu Wen is particularly "talented" either because you don't have to be really "talented" to be a good model, and I definitely don't think any of the SuJu members has to work any harder than Liu Wen does.

And hey, I don't have it in only for SuJu; I think many actors and singers in East Asia are just terrible. Many of them rely solely on their good looks and on that sort of "fan culture" and "idol worship" which is only prevalent in that part of the world - I happen to value real artistry in my entertainers where I come from, so don't blame me for not going gaga over SuJu and others like them.

Like a little birdie just said, it only matters that they appeal to a very common denominator and are raking in that dough, right? After all, monstrosities like Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus bring in lots of cash too, so I guess fair's fair.

 

 

[Guest bibidep]

Oh my only one day I didn't visit this thread and and and.....now.   Don't worry about who better than who and who suffer more than who.  I think Siwon and Liu Wen had their own trouble right now.   They may no longer in contact any more now, so don't worry about them being together.   Siwon acted very weird since July 1, 2015 the day the rumor or terrible news about Sui He.   Last night he liked Liu Wen's Instagram and today he posted all over his SNS about:   """Leave the Pity Behind for the Time Being."""  What happen to him again this time??   Ok you all can shift the gun to shot at my post hahah.

[newone]

funny !!! Stereo Kicks an 8 member boyband from Britain proclaims they are the largest boyband in the world .... i guess they still havent heard of SuJu ... hehe and talk abt raking in moolah 1D and Taylor Swift sure hits the bulls eye...

[silvergrey]

@siwonie407, Thanks for sharing the video with Eng subs.

I liked how Siwon said he wants to experience things he has never done with her. She might be experiencing many firsts (namely a first relationship), but he's also collecting many first memories too (the hospital emergency, sky diving etc). And when they grow old, together or otherwise, they will be able to look back on beautiful memories made together.

Ultimately, it's all a matter of perspective ... whether this is real or an act, if someone has had a tough journey in life, if another is more mature .... 

The main thing I'm taking away from this show was captured mainly in the encounter with Papa Choi. If I were to be looking for a life partner, I'd definitely consider both Siwon and Liu Wen a catch. And as a parent of any child, I'd be more than happy to have either as a partner for my own child. They obviously have healthy, loving and respectful relationships with their parents and family. Papa Choi was right on the money. The most important thing is love. Not just romantic love that causes swooning. But deep abiding love ... for God, for each other and for everyone who come into their lives. Unless both Siwon and Liu Wen are complete shams the minute they walk out their front doors, I see two responsible, thoughtful young people who attract love from others because they themselves show love to others.