[Drama 2015] Hwajung 화정

[gerrytan8063]

@‌SMP567

Do you happen to know why Kim Gae Shi was executed in 1623?...Because she was the deposed king's servant? (Did they kill all the servants if the king was deposed?)....Or because she did crimes?"

She "assisted" in the death of Seonjo to have Gwanghaegun ascend the throne. The court wanted to support Grand Prince Yeongchang to become heir apparent to the throne. If Seonjo was to lived longer, the chances for Gwanghaegun's right to the throne will had diminished.

Kim Gae Shi also had a side line business enterprise in the palace by selling or trading 매관매직(mae gwan mae jik, 賣官賣職, or 賣官鬻爵), that also consolidate her powers in the palace without Gwanghaegun knowledge

매관매직(賣官賣職) is selling official titles & ranks for cash (to take bribes in exchange for granting an official title or Royal favours)

This is why Kim Gae Shi hold the rank of Seung Eun Sanggung (승은상궁,承恩) a 5th rank for Consort for easy movement in the palace, if she takes on higher than that, she will have to be restricted to bestowed residential household. She was in Gwanghaegun admirable favour that she could have been promoted to higher ranks

During the day Retribution of Rectitude revolt, Kim Gae Shi was away from the palace for "pray duty" at the temple, after learning about the revolt, she tries to escape into the population, but was pursue by the Seoin Faction backed revolt guard, caught & was executed the next day

It was also one of Queen Dowager Inmok's set term & condition to give her Royal Endorsement for the Seoin backed revolt to be justified

[SMP567]

Thank you, @gerrytan8063  for answering in details.
So the main reason for her execution was due to her many crimes.

However, if she did not do anything wrong, would she be killed off?   In another word, when a king was deposed, did all the families and servants get executed ?

[gerrytan8063]

Some of the firearms or arsenal that the Bureau of Arsenal/Firearms (Hwa Gi Do Gam, 화기도감火器都監) that was produce between 1614-1615 during the reign of Gwanhaegun

Bul Rang Gi 불랑기(佛狼機) 

Sam An Jung 삼안총(三眼銃) 

So Seung Ja Jang Ga 소승자장가 (小勝字粧家)

Images are from the Kyujanggak (규장각) Archives, maintained by Kyujanggak Institute for Korean Studies at the Seoul National University

[gerrytan8063]

‌@SMP567

"In another word, when a king was deposed, did all the families and servants get executed ?"

Gwanghaegun suffered quite a number of casualties of death in his family members in 1623

Queen Munseong - his wife died in October 1623 at Ganghwa Island

Crown Prince Yi Ji (이지, 李祬)- died June 1623, while trying to escape Ganghwa Island, digging a tunnel, failed in his attempt - committed suicide

Crown Princess of Park clan - died May 1623, committed suicide

Consort Su-ui Yun clan - died 1623 was executed

Consort So Yong Im clan - died 1628, committed suicide

Consort So Yong of Jeong clan - died 1623, committed suicide on the day of the revolt

Other consorts are not known or recorded

After Gwanghaegun was depose & exiled March 1623

1623 Gwanghaegun exile to Ganghwa-Island

1627 Gwanghaegun was exile to Gyodong-Island (교동도) during the 1st Manchu Invasion

1637 Gwanghaegun was exile to Jeju-do during the 2nd Manchu Invasion

1641 Gwanghaegun dies in exile in Jeju-do, aged 67

[MadraRua]

@zenya22 Thanks for the explanation. I just thought he would side with the Princess in deposing Gwanghae and therefore support Injo but maybe not. I've re-read the viki synopsis on each character and Injo hated her, wanted her dead even, so we have all that drama to look forward to!

@gerrytan8063 Thanks for all the indepth details you post. It's really interesting to see the true politics and history of the time.

I finished episode 16 last night. In Woo did really well to suss her out her identity, now all that's left is for her to own up to it. I have a feeling she'll deny all for the time being. But somehow he won't believe her or I hope he doesn't. It was a great episode. I can't believe that evil guy (forgotten his name, something with a g) used her to frame the queen mother.  Tough times ahead for the princess but I love it. Can't wait to see how they get out of this one.

[SMP567]

@gerrytan8063

"Kim Gae Shi hold the rank of Seung Eun Sanggung (승은상궁,承恩) a 5th rank for Consort "
 

1. Is it correct to say that the immediate family ( wife and kids ) of a deposed king will get exiled or executed?  For example, in Gwanghae's case, his queen and children were exiled to the island with him.

2. The consorts, unless they committed suicide, would be executed, right? 
Gae shi was a 5th rank consort, therefore, she would have been executed even if she had done no crimes. 

*BTW, just curious. So Gae shi was not only a palace maid, she was Gwanghae's consort ( wife ) ?
 

[gerrytan8063]

@‌SMP567

"Is it correct to say that the immediate family ( wife and kids ) of a deposed king will get exiled or executed?  For example, in Gwanghae's case, his queen and children were exiled to the island with him."

If I was the succeeding King that has usurp the throne via a revolt, I will definitely eradicate all possibilities of not having the preceding King's family stage a comeback, & threaten my throne.....this is done throughout history

"So Gae shi was not only a palace maid, she was Gwanghae's consort ( wife ) ?"

All palace maids are technically is the King's woman, palace maids need to be promoted into the realm of Consort (hugung, 후궁). Seung Eun Sang Gung (승은 상궁, literally means Court lady who receive the King's benevolence) is the lowest rank in the Consort ranking system

[gerrytan8063]

@‌MadraRua

"Injo hated her, wanted her dead even, so we have all that drama to look forward to!"

Princess Jeongmyeong will eventually render her support to Crown Prince Sohyeon (소현세자) & Crown Princess Minhoe (Gang Bin, 강빈)of Geumcheon Gang clan (hint is given in the chart below in black dotted lines)

Injo became a King through a "default" & had to bear in mind it was Queen Dowager Inmok endorsement that justified his right to the throne & Princess Jeongmyeong being Queen Inmok only living posterity.

Injo had a terrible relationship instigated by Jo Gwi In (Injo version of Kim Gae Shi) with his eldest son Crown Prince Sohyeon (hint given in the chart in red line), this can be seen in the drama Cruel palace, War of the Flowers

Injo is also indicate (red line) being adversary with Hong Joo Won & his father Hong Yeong, Princess Jeongmyeong marital household

 

[gerrytan8063]

This is excerpts taken from Gwanhaegun Dairy (光海君日記) circa 1621

"傳曰: “賊勢日熾, 而我國兵力人心, 無一可恃(之事則) 高談大言, 能遏滔天之兇鋒乎? 鐵騎蹂躪之日, 其可以談鋒擊之乎, 筆翰衝之乎? 廣收廷議, 所益何事? 大槪唐人雖曰歸順, 言飛千里, 耳目極煩, 何必由此路出來乎? 況詔使非隣國相通之書, 此後改書格, 由滿浦出來事, 更待下諭後, 十分勿煩唐人耳目, 而差胡處, 詳密答送, 只受弘立等書狀上送, 而吳仲庫等處, 此賊勢大, 古者創業之主, 亦有卑辭厚禮于賊將, 豈無其意乎? 今我國家, 旣失遼陽, 朝天路絶, 軍兵單弱, 不得不以權辭善處云云。 其所謂詔文則或密謄, 不受如何? 此係宗社存亡, 卿等更加商確, 從長善處(事, 言于備邊司)"

 I will translate the quote in red ( for those who can read the Chinese text can continue to do so)

高談大言, 能遏滔天之兇鋒乎? 鐵騎蹂躪之日, 其可以談鋒擊之乎, 筆翰衝之乎?

Gwanghaegun: Can boisterous debate & imperious speech able to cease in preventing a charge of a menacing adversity that reaches the heavens. When the day the cavalry (Manchu Cavalier Army) ravages, are we capable to repulsive such adversity with brush bristle & verbal talk to thrust?

Gwanghaegun the only pragmatic person in the court as he complained how dogmatic confucianist scholars who ideologically insisted on an attack against the Manchus although in reality it was totally impossible.

Gwanghaegun tells that Joseon is weak military & can't afford to wage wars that even the mighty Ming Dynasty are currently coming to its ends

[SMP567]

This is excerpts taken from Gwanhaegun Dairy (光海君日記) circa 1621

Gwanghaegun: Can boisterous debate & imperious speech able to cease in preventing a charge of a menacing adversity that reaches the heavens. When the day the cavalry (Manchu Cavalier Army) ravages, are we capable to repulsive such adversity with brush bristle & verbal talk to thrust?

Gwanghaegun the only pragmatic person in the court as he complained how dogmatic confucianist scholars who ideologically insisted on an attack against the Manchus although in reality it was totally impossible.

Gwanghaegun tells that Joseon is weak military & can't afford to wage wars that even the mighty Ming Dynasty are currently coming to its ends

​Just the three paragraphs above, it shows what a wise king Gwanghae was...
The more you learn, the sadder you feel. How could a nation get rid of an able king for a foolish one...

 

[gerrytan8063]

‌@‌SMP567

Joseon is so thumbed in pledging subservience (vassalage) to Ming, China, in their suzerainty policy. Korea's Confucianists had agreed with this arrangement in exercising the Confucian virtue of "loyalty (忠), seeing China as the homeland of Confucianism and the font of civilisation and wisdom. Korean obstinate to observe Confucian values continued to impede economic growth that the Confucianists still believing that exchange should be more of gift giving rather inspired by gain.

No one at the time will be in a general consensus or concur with what Gwanghaegun hindsight, not agree to that, they ended in a far worst situation later

After 400 years later, there was an essay written "Confucius Must Die For the Nation to Live" (gong ja ga juk ja eo ya, na ra ga san da, 공자가 죽어야 나라가 산다).

[SMP567]

@gerrytan8063

Although she had committed many crimes, Kim Gae Si might possibly be the one person in the palace who followed Gwanghaegun and supported his policy.
In the drama, she poisoned herself to pave the way for Gwanghae's ascension to the throne.  It was a sacrifice for the better Joseon.
Well, it would have been benevolent if she didn't corrupt the palace with all those trading and bribery.

[SMP567]

as tagged

[SMP567]

           

           as tagged

[valsava]

@gerrytan8063

Although she had committed many crimes, Kim Gae Si might possibly be the one person in the palace who followed Gwanghaegun and supported his policy.
In the drama, she poisoned herself to pave the way for Gwanghae's ascension to the throne.  It was a sacrifice for the better Joseon.
Well, it would have been benevolent if she didn't corrupt the palace with all those trading and bribery.

​@smp567,  In the palace it's damn if you do damn if you don't If she didn't do it someone else would have she was no different then the corrupt minister that used they position in the palace to gain wealth..   

[gerrytan8063]

‌@SMP567

Bureaucratic corruption & administrative ethics were the norms of the times, Kim Gae Shi just follow the trend of the times

[SMP567]

@valsava , @gerrytan8063           

Thanks for the comments ! 

Since Gwanghaegun was a different type of his time, I thought the king would have attracted his followers / supporters who didn't follow the flow of the surroundings...
Well, Yi Chum and Kim Gae Si were just the typical of that era ( greedy and shortsighted). They were not the trend breaker like their king was!

The person who saw a big picture of a better Joseon and didn't corrupt was the ex-prime minister who got killed by Yi Chum. Then we have Hon Joo Won's father who might just be killed for being a good guy!  There are not many good honest people around plus we got that spy-turn-sour, Heo Gyun. How gloomy!

 

as tagged                            
                                                       a bad news X  a bad news

 

 

[Guest MaknaeC]

Finally caught up with the latest episode and the latest page of this thread. Thank you everyone for keep this thread alive with your wonderful posts! 

The storyline of this drama is getting better and better. It has a few plot holes, but overall it's great and I love it. I'm glad that this drama give justice to the historical records especially how they show us about GH's policy regarding foreign affairs (I've stated before, based on history that I know, GH was an outstanding diplomat, eventhough his action regarding Ming somewhat controversial at that time). 

For the upcoming episodes the story definitely will be more intense since we're not too far from 1623 where GH was deposed in a coup. Like many of you I'm curious how they will depict Jungmyung's involvement on this case and I'm also curious whether they will show us about GH when he's in exile or not. I know that after GH was deposed the story will focus to Injo-Jungmyung. But it would be nice if they show us the interaction between the reinstated Princess Jungmyung, the deposed king Gwanghae, and the successor king Injo. 

 

Anyway, I fell in love again and again with CSW portrayal of GH, he's really amazing as GH. And anyone noticed that they show us 'Chajumma' on episode 15? GH's meal time, when Japchae Minister asked him about his vegetables and GH criticized his cooking method. Hahaha that scene is hilarious because it reminds me of Chajumma right away LOL

 

[irilight]

Me too.. caught up.

@SMP567, @gerrytan8063, @valsava, @MadraRua, @zenya22,  @purpledrama. @mangekyux,  @stclaus, @Misstwilightfan1416,  @MaknaeC  and everyone else -     Thank you and everyone else, for all the updates, photos, videos, and insights, everyone...

@gerrytan8063, thank you for historical information and illuminations you provide. I love that you offer them to us. It is a huge help.  

 

‌@‌SMP567

Joseon is so thumbed in pledging subservience (vassalage) to Ming, China, in their suzerainty policy. Korea's Confucianists had agreed with this arrangement in exercising the Confucian virtue of "loyalty (忠), seeing China as the homeland of Confucianism and the font of civilisation and wisdom. Korean obstinate to observe Confucian values continued to impede economic growth that the Confucianists still believing that exchange should be more of gift giving rather inspired by gain.

No one at the time will be in a general consensus or concur with what Gwanghaegun hindsight, not agree to that, they ended in a far worst situation later

After 400 years later, there was an essay written "Confucius Must Die For the Nation to Live" (gong ja ga juk ja eo ya, na ra ga san da, 공자가 죽어야 나라가 산다).

​@gerrytan8063, thank you so much for this explanation.. I could not understand that part, how Kang and his group could openly support China's interests over Korean interests and not be charged for treason.

What an absolutely insane notion that was... that the needs of another nation will come before one's own nation.!

I was disappointed that Gyosan turned out to be the King's adversary. I was pleased before that - when I thought he was Gwanghae's man. I wanted Gwanghae to have someone intelligent on his side, other than Gae-Shi. It is still blows my mind that such a King who really had the interest of his people at heart would be so opposed by them.

I am not sure if it had been asked previously. I wonder if the story of Princess Jeongmyeong being away for so many years in her childhood is true to history - either in Japan or elsewhere... did she in fact disappear and presumed dead for a few years?

Glad that In-Woo finally figured it out.  Smart fellow.

[gerrytan8063]

Some irony to the matters

Injo Restoration of Rectitude backed by the Seoin Faction provided a perfect excuse to dethrone Gwanghaegun by accusing him of unethical act in killing his sibling (Grand Prince Yeongchang) & incarceration of his Mother (Queen Inmok, by default that the Queen is the principal wife to Seonjo, therefore she is the Mother to all his posterity, regardless who had given birth to them)

But Injo was also done a greater unethical act when he killed his eldest son Crown Prince Sohyeon, sentence his daughter in law Crown Princess Minhoe to death by poison for treason in 1646, exile Crown Prince Sohyeon & Crown Princess Minhoe 3 sons to Jeju-do in 1647 & meanwhile killed 2 older sons there in 1648, only the 3rd son Yi Hee (이회 1644-1665) survive to have descendants & was bestowed as Prince Gyeong An Gun (경안군) in 1656 by Hyojong, the King that succeeded Injo

Injo (인조,仁祖) was given the temple name. The word In "인" (仁) which means benevolence, did none of the achievement that his bestowed name had suggested. He only had two wars with the Manchus & a devastation of the economy to his credit