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8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Well, Joo won himself in many occasions made clear that he likes to drink coffee, like it is literally his hobby:P.

 

Hm - I wonder if he has a standard order, or if he likes to change things up, then :) 

 

Anyway, just stopping by with my answers to the question: What would you imagine to be a typical coffee drink for any (or all) of JW's drama characters?

 

Generally speaking, I think I can split them into three broad categories, but I'll also go into some specifics as well.

 

1. More Tea than Coffee - Gyun Woo, Lee Kang To

 

The issue here, as @kireeti2 already pointed out, is availability. Coffee was only introduced into what's now Korea during the final years of the Joseon era, so we can pretty easily place Gyun Woo firmly in tea-drinking territory (actually, in My Sassy Girl, the tea house is a parody of modern coffee shops rather than anything actually historical/traditional).

 

As for Lee Kang To, coffee actually was around during his time - it was available to the elite right at the tail end of the Joseon dynasty, and the Japanese did expand on that somewhat by introducing coffeehouses (along with other Westernized infrastructure and amenities) in urban areas. However, it was probably uncommon for average citizens to drink coffee: I do imagine that Kang To would have access to it at the police precinct (there's this whole joke focused around Shunji sending Kang To for iced coffee at one point), but when he's on his own, he's probably still a tea person, just by force of habit.

 

2. Quick, Cheap, and Convenient - Gu Ma Jun, Hwang Tae Hui, Kim Tae Hyun

 

These three would be the standard instant/brewed coffee crowd - because instant coffee (i.e. those little packets already containing powdered creamer and sugar) is huge in Korea's office/business culture. It's the thing that people reach for when they just want a quick break from work or a quick burst of caffeine, and I think these three characters would be the most likely to opt for that on-the-go lifestyle. Just as importantly (since we have a few more workaholics down below), these three are the ones who probably wouldn't care about the quality of their coffee: as long as it's there, and it wakes them up, then that's okay.

 

A few more character-specific notes.

- I don't remember whether Ma Jun or his colleagues drank coffee at the bakery, so I'm referring to when he switches to an office job towards the end. 

- One of the big draws of instant coffee for Tae Hyun would be that it's cheap. He's never going to be the type to splurge on a coffeehouse drink, even if it's available to him - I imagine the only time he would get something like, say, an Americano would be if a friend or colleague offers to treat him. Another thing I imagine he'd do is swipe packets of instant coffee from the doctors' break room to use at home (drawing inspiration here from IU's character in My Ahjussi, who similarly lives below the poverty line with massive debts).

 

3. Connoisseur or Willing to Experiment - Park Si On, Han Gil Ro, Cha Yoo Jin

 

You may be surprised to see Si On here - and I do think he'd be the instant coffee sort of guy while at work. But I can also see him open to trying new things at a coffee shop, and having an affinity for sweet or specialty drinks (e.g. mocha, caramel macchiato, etc.). That would be in line with his childlike tastes.

 

Han Gil Ro and Cha Yoo Jin are definitely the big coffeehouse patrons out of all 8 characters. Gil Ro likes it for the socialization and, like what I just said for Si On, he's the type who'd like to experiment and try new things (good point on the Dalgona coffee there, @kireeti2).

 

As for Cha Yoo Jin, he doesn't change his order all that much while he's in Seoul. While he does become his mom's guinea pig for specialty drinks (like that black tea coffee), when he's on his own, he seems to prefer espresso and variations thereof. Basically, for him, the stronger the better: he's usually ordering doubles or even triples(!), which freaks his mom out. :P Once he gets to Europe, though, things change. He's definitely still the brewed coffee/espresso guy at home, but when he's at a coffeehouse, he's trying different things. (Seriously, if you haven't done so already, look up how many different coffee beverages there are, just distinct to Austria - it's a little nuts :P)

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1 hour ago, kittyna said:

good point on the Dalgona coffee there, @kireeti2

Was Dalgona famous before lock down or quarantine ? Because I got to know about it during the pandemic:o

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

You may be surprised to see Si On here - and I do think he'd be the instant coffee sort of guy while at work. But I can also see him open to trying new things at a coffee shop, and having an affinity for sweet or specialty drinks (e.g. mocha, caramel macchiato, etc.). That would be in line with his childlike tastes.

Interesting take. But I never saw Si-on as guy who indulges in beverages, since he has no affect of alcohol on him, I hardly think he will be drawn towards caffeine, since caffeine is also a type of addictive beverage like alcohol. I do agree he might give a it a try, if Cha yoon seon ask him to try ;)

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10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Was Dalgona famous before lock down or quarantine ? Because I got to know about it during the pandemic:o

 

That's a good question - I actually don't know. I know that dalgona is actually a classic Korean street food snack in its original candy form, and I think whipped coffee drinks have been around for a long time (or, at least, I remember seeing references to them on TV when I was little). But the idea of it taking off in Korea and being called "dalgona coffee"? I'm not sure.

 

Maybe it was around before the pandemic, but only became super-popular once everyone was stuck at home and actually had enough time on their hands to make it? I don't know.

 

Just for reference: a short video clip of the dalgona candy (note: the video says it's sugar + oil, but commenters say it's actually sugar + baking soda).

 

 

10 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Interesting take. But I never saw Si-on as guy who indulges in beverages, since he has no affect of alcohol on him, I hardly think he will be drawn towards caffeine, since caffeine is also a type of addictive beverage like alcohol

 

I'm not sure if Si On would be in it for the caffeine to begin with, actually, since caffeine may have different effects on people with autism compared to the general population. I just think he's interested in coffee for the taste, or smell, or just because everyone else is drinking it (i.e. it's something he'd do to fit in), etc.

 

Or maybe he's more a hot chocolate kind of guy :P That works, too.

 

Not much else to add today, save for this Instagram Story update:

 

 

 

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Just popping by to start up Round Two of my ongoing tournament-style poll: JW Drama Characters as Dads

 

So, the whole points system thing I used in Round One...didn't really work out as expected :P In hindsight, it was 1) confusing, and 2) not particularly effective at minimizing ties (like, I really had to force myself to change my own ratings to prevent that from happening). So this time, we're going back to the old "pick a winner for each question" style.

 

But before I do that, here are the winners from Round One:

 

Spoiler

Park Si On

Kim Tae Hyun

Hwang Tae Hui

Cha Yoo Jin

 

Let's move on to Round Two!

 

Spoiler

Which JW Drama Character would be the Best Dad? You Decide!

 

Rules/How This Works

For each character in the following pairs, pick the one that you think would be the better dad. No real standards - what you think makes a good dad or not is entirely up to you.

 

Again, feel free to elaborate on your responses at any time, but just casting votes with no explanation is also fine.

 

Round Two

 

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Kim Tae Hyun

 

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Hwang Tae Hui

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

One thing I did think worked better with Round One compared to the previous poll was setting a deadline for votes. So, you guys will have until Sunday, June 7 to send in your responses - I will jump in with mine whenever I feel like it :) 

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9 hours ago, kittyna said:

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Kim Tae Hyun

God! This  is a tough pairing,both have lot of similarities. Like, both had traumatic childhood, both have/had terrible fathers,both are doctors and partners with strong personality:P.

So here it goes

Park si-on- I choose Si-on, because I think he has more family/friends support system, than Kim Tae-Hyun. Kim Tae-Hyun does have family/friends support system too, but none of them might not have any insights on raising kids, except the head nurse, but the position of Han Yeo-Jin might not permit or possible for the friends to be close with the couple, no matter how close they are with them. I general think a father can be better if he has support system from friends/family, and also harmonious relation with his partner, especially in parenting partners should be on same page. And I think si-on and yoon-seon will be on same page while raising their kids. But Tae-Hyun and Yeo-jin might not be, due to different family history, and the way they were raised, Yeo-jin is basically raised as a princess and in the drama it was shown that all the help in the house use to be afraid of her even when she was 10 years old, so, that attitude can be reflected while parenting and she might disagree with Tae-Hyun on parenting matters. I think a father to be better also depends on his open mindedness, si-on is more open minded than Tae-Hyun, since he listens and ponders to what yoon-seo advises him and Tae-Hyun often does the opposite what Yeo-jin wants. And both si-on and yoon-seon had head start regarding raising kids, since they both are pediatrician and they job depends them to be more understanding in helping kids both emotionally and physically, Kim Tae-Hyun and Han Yeo-jin might have hard time in the beginning :D(I almost forgot, si-on's mom will be big help raising the kids since she had missed that chance with si-on,so, I expect her to play an important role):)

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Hwang Tae Hui

B - Cha Yoo Jin

Cha-Yoo-jin- This pair is tough as well. Since both are hot heads and have anger issues, but with help from partners I see them making into better fathers. But if I have to choose best one from them, I will go with Hwang Tae Hui, again, also here I am giving weight to the support system in raising kids and Tae-Hui's support system in not only better than Cha Yoo-jin's but also out numbers it. Tae Hui's mom is going to be big help in raising kids and whole family will do their part in order for tae-hui to be a better father. Yoo-jin have also equally good chances of being better father, but his obsession with music might be a drawback. Nae-il might make up for it but still this makes him a slightly less better father than Tae-Hui. But, I do think yoo-jin will be fun and more understanding father than Tae-Hui, since Tae-Hui does not express his feeling very well, and might have communication problem with kids. So, I will go with Cha Yoo jin:D

 

P.S- I think my cultural bias might have been seen in the answer, giving importance to family structure and implicitly saying that single parents or parents with no family might not be good at raising kids. And I completely do not subscribe to such idea, Parents can mess up even if they have family support to raise kids and sometimes single parents have done excellent job in raising kids, than the parents with family support system. So, support system might play a role in good parenting, but it is no sufficient to be good parent, it boils down to individual's willingness to change, understand , trust towards their child:)

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11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

God! This  is a tough pairing,both have lot of similarities. Like, both had traumatic childhood, both have/had terrible fathers,both are doctors and partners with strong personality:P.

 

I know, right? Park Si On and Kim Tae Hyun - so similar, yet so completely different at the same time. :P 

 

You did bring up some points I hadn't thought about before, so we'll have to see where this ends up going.

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Cha-Yoo-jin- This pair is tough as well. Since both are hot heads and have anger issues, but with help from partners I see them making into better fathers. But if I have to choose best one from them, I will go with Hwang Tae Hui, again, also here I am giving weight to the support system in raising kids and Tae-Hui's support system in not only better than Cha Yoo-jin's but also out numbers it. Tae Hui's mom is going to be big help in raising kids and whole family will do their part in order for tae-hui to be a better father. Yoo-jin have also equally good chances of being better father, but his obsession with music might be a drawback. Nae-il might make up for it but still this makes him a slightly less better father than Tae-Hui. But, I do think yoo-jin will be fun and more understanding father than Tae-Hui, since Tae-Hui does not express his feeling very well, and might have communication problem with kids. So, I will go with Cha Yoo jin:D

 

:lol: A bit of thinking out loud here, huh? You started with Hwang Tae Hui, then changed your mind partway :P 

 

Clearly, neither of these are going to be easy choices for me, either. ;) 

 

11 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think my cultural bias might have been seen in the answer, giving importance to family structure and implicitly saying that single parents or parents with no family might not be good at raising kids. And I completely do not subscribe to such idea, Parents can mess up even if they have family support to raise kids and sometimes single parents have done excellent job in raising kids, than the parents with family support system. So, support system might play a role in good parenting, but it is no sufficient to be good parent, it boils down to individual's willingness to change, understand , trust towards their child:)

 

That's perfectly fine: I did say that what actually constituted a "good father" was up to you. And this gives me a look into what different people value or prioritize in parenting, which also helps me to think about the drama characters in greater depth.

 

As for me...I think my big thing would be that a father should be able to guide his children to have the ethical values and morals that they'll need in real-life society. I know that not all parents agree on what exactly those morals should be - but I think a father should raise his children to be kind, respectful, honest, and hardworking people, as opposed to emphasizing material success (e.g. grades, career, reputation, etc.). Which, I'm well aware, already rules out some of the dads from JW's dramas.

 

I also think a father should be able to practice what he preaches: even if he means well, if he can't live by the same values he wants his children to have, his teaching won't be effective.

 

This is why, in my responses thus far, I've often talked about things like balancing affection and discipline, or having the right priorities in choosing when/how to discipline a child (e.g. scolding a kid for cheating on a test is okay, but scolding a kid for getting less than perfect when they already tried their best isn't).

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44 minutes ago, kittyna said:

 A bit of thinking out loud here, huh? You started with Hwang Tae Hui, then changed your mind partway :P 

Lol!! You are spot on. :joy::joy: (I knew you would figure it out) .Actually I was going to choose Hwang Tae Hui, but when I re-read my my answer I changed my opinion, I guess literature do shape ones opinion, even if it is written by that very same person :joy:

 

50 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I think my big thing would be that a father should be able to guide his children to have the ethical values and morals that they'll need in real-life society.

Indeed, I think those ethical values and morals should also change with time and need be balanced with realism, after all the very same ethical and moral values can sometimes make a person dysfunctional(not all the times, but sometimes), because the world is not always black and white in nature. Maybe teach the kid to find his own golden mean to have balanced approach, like Kim Tae-Hyun in yong-pal, this character of Joo won was by far has best balance both flexible morality and guided by ethical values(like basic values of not killing someone). I had theory that, the reason was his interference  towards Yeo-jin actions were partly driven by realism, like she wanted to rule things by evoking fear among his adversaries and on her subordinates, that's not a good strategy in long run and not at all sustainable, because at some point of the time in your life you'll become weak and at that point you'll end up with more enemies than friends then you are in big trouble, that is something I have learnt from history, "One who rules by fear, lives in fear":)

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6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I had theory that, the reason was his interference  towards Yeo-jin actions were partly driven by realism, like she wanted to rule things by evoking fear among his adversaries and on her subordinates, that's not a good strategy in long run and not at all sustainable, because at some point of the time in your life you'll become weak and at that point you'll end up with more enemies than friends then you are in big trouble, that is something I have learnt from history, "One who rules by fear, lives in fear":)

 

Yeah, that's what I thought about Kim Tae Hyun's actions as well, especially his attempt to rescue Han Do Joon: he did it in hopes that that could prevent Yeo Jin from sinking even deeper into her bitterness and resentment. Partially because of the consequences of ruling by fear, but also because, in Tae Hyun's mind, killing and vengeance were just plain wrong.

 

And now, here I am with my own votes for the poll :) 

 

Spoiler

1. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Park Si On

B - Kim Tae Hyun

 

It's this idea of the "golden mean" that makes me lean more in Tae Hyun's favour.

 

Park Si On is incredibly kind with a good heart; but while that's one of his greatest strengths, it's also one of his biggest weaknesses. Si On thinks of people and the world in relatively simple black-and-white terms, and although he does show signs of broadening his perspective by the end, I don't think that core part of his nature is ever going to change 100%. He has difficulty understanding the thoughts and intentions behind people's actions, so he tends to default to assuming that everyone is good unless they are really over-the-top outwardly bad. That can make teaching and raising children difficult in the long run: he can only see the actions and whether those actions are good or bad, but not times when the intention overrides the outward action (e.g. lying to protect someone, or false displays of friendship). So I expect there might be a number of misunderstandings between Si On and his children - or, if not, then between his children and their peers. Cha Yoon Seo would step in to help sort out some of those shades of grey, but I'm thinking strictly about Si On as an individual.

 

As for Kim Tae Hyun, he's also not going to have an easy time of it, but for a different reason. I think that, just as people, he'd know what he should teach his kids - but as hugely public figures and as potential heirs of a massive conglomerate...yeah, he's kinda lost there :P Like @kireeti2 already pointed out, it's quite likely that Tae Hyun and Yeo Jin would have different expectations of their kids, and thus different opinions on how to raise them to get the results they (i.e. the parents) want. So there might be some areas where Tae Hyun would be lax while Yeo Jin would be strict, and vice-versa - they'd need to work that out themselves. But again, just as an individual parent, I think Tae Hyun has a clear sense of what constitutes a good person, and he'd take all the steps necessary to make sure his kids end up growing in that direction.

 

2. Who do you think would be a better dad?

A - Hwang Tae Hui

B - Cha Yoo Jin

 

Again, a very close contest, but I'm also going to go with Yoo Jin here. To be fair, both Yoo Jin and Tae Hui have IQs that outweigh their EQs - both struggle with understanding other people's feelings as well as communicating their own. However, when push comes to shove, I think that Yoo Jin is just ever so slightly more of a feel-er than Tae Hui is: both because he's a musician (and one that does, when given licence to do so, like to put his emotions into his work), but also because it's his sensitivity and vulnerability that made him a target for his father's emotional abuse and neglect (which means that somewhere underneath that gruff exterior, he's got to be a caring and sensitive person). So, if we think about it that way, Yoo Jin has a slightly stronger incentive than Tae Hui to actually look out for his kids' mental and emotional health - and, if nothing else, spending time with Nae Il's made him a lot better at actually dealing with it.

 

That's not to say that Tae Hui would be a bad parent, by any means. I see him as being the "provider" sort of a dad: the one who shows his love for his family by acting as the main breadwinner, helping with difficult tasks around the house, etc. But he's also the type of person who tends to become preoccupied by his work.

 

(Which is funny, because I actually don't think that about Cha Yoo Jin - like, he's a workaholic, but he's too Type A to ever let his other duties or responsibilities slide just because of his music. That's Nae Il.)

 

Uh-oh - looks like we've got another tie. But this is my honest answer to the question, so I don't want to change it. People still have until Sunday, June 7 to cast their vote - but in the meantime, I'll see what I can come up with in terms of a tie-breaker, just in case. :) 

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If anyone thinks it's inappropriate for me to post my usual stuff on this forum today because of all the more important things happening in the wider world, please forgive me. But I still want to share something anyway, for those whose mental and emotional states have been strained and who want or need some more lighthearted fare.

 

In short: the 10th anniversary of JW's drama debut is coming soon, and already, the fan tributes have started to crop up online.

 

 

 

However, I am honestly wondering: is it just me, or has #BlackoutTuesday been practically non-existent in Korea and the Hallyu fandom? Like, I've seen posts for it everywhere in all the other broad circles/topics I follow on Instagram (e.g. pages for cultural institutions, historical costume/period drama fans, Disney, classical musicians, etc.), coming from users based in North America (obviously), Europe and Australia. But not on anything related to Hallyu: not from artists, not from fan accounts, etc. Like, my usual look at the #joowon tag on Instagram looks...entirely ordinary? Why is that? Does anyone know?

 

Also, I did get a good deal of writing done for the next Seolleim in Salzburg fic these past few days. It's not stuff that I can actually post an official preview because of spoilers, but just for the record: I did finally get to the proposal :wub: No surprise on the outcome (since, you know, Nae Il is Nae Il and she would've said "Yes" from Day One), but you'll have to wait for the finished fic to discover how exactly Cha Yoo Jin does it in my own imaginary universe. ;) 

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Joo won's movie first poster, I skeptical if it is joo won in the poster, since we cannot guess the height with the fire fighter gear. :)

 

13 hours ago, kittyna said:

 

However, I am honestly wondering: is it just me, or has #BlackoutTuesday been practically non-existent in Korea and the Hallyu fandom? Like, I've seen posts for it everywhere in all the other broad circles/topics I follow on Instagram (e.g. pages for cultural institutions, historical costume/period drama fans, Disney, classical musicians, etc.), coming from users based in North America (obviously), Europe and Australia. But not on anything related to Hallyu: not from artists, not from fan accounts, etc. Like, my usual look at the #joowon tag on Instagram looks...entirely ordinary? Why is that? Does anyone know?

I have seen few stars posting #Blackouttuesday, for instance star like Boa, but, what I have observed is most of the stars who have posted or participated in the campaign have some kind of relation with Holly wood or stars who have repatriated to South Korea. In Korean news media there is virtually no mention of this movement(probable due to diplomatic issues). I think a lot of section in Korea are sensitized on racial issue ,for that matter they have less exposure to such kind of incidence through media(I am no expert on South Korean behavior, it is just my observation):neutral: I was hoping Joo won would participate :confounded:

Here the evidence of my observation. Sample size is small, but it does kind of give me some conclusive evidence after searching through South Korean news feed. I guess SK is still busy in dealing with covid-19 situation and also there are no protests going in South Korea per se, only East Asian country to go on protest is Japan if we look at the protest map, so I guess information might not have been disseminated properly :neutral:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1W3fsF5-Mz3_KaBgVt2pU8BDY5GkawUN_&ll=13.239797417324194%2C-93.52065609999997&z=2

 


Repatriated to South Korea case

 

 

Actor from movie "Parasite", which had won Oscar last year

Actress from movie "Parasite", which had won Oscar last year

 

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On 5/30/2020 at 8:48 AM, kireeti2 said:

Was Dalgona famous before lock down or quarantine ? Because I got to know about it during the pandemic:o

Interesting take. But I never saw Si-on as guy who indulges in beverages, since he has no affect of alcohol on him, I hardly think he will be drawn towards caffeine, since caffeine is also a type of addictive beverage like alcohol. I do agree he might give a it a try, if Cha yoon seon ask him to try ;)

Several months ago there was a video by Jung Il Woo and he made the beverage based on a drink he had on his hiking trip in Turkey. The video went viral and a lot of American celebrities started posting it with challenge to others to make it.

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14 hours ago, kittyna said:

If anyone thinks it's inappropriate for me to post my usual stuff on this forum today because of all the more important things happening in the wider world, please forgive me. But I still want to share something anyway, for those whose mental and emotional states have been strained and who want or need some more lighthearted fare.

 

In short: the 10th anniversary of JW's drama debut is coming soon, and already, the fan tributes have started to crop up online.

 

 

 

However, I am honestly wondering: is it just me, or has #BlackoutTuesday been practically non-existent in Korea and the Hallyu fandom? Like, I've seen posts for it everywhere in all the other broad circles/topics I follow on Instagram (e.g. pages for cultural institutions, historical costume/period drama fans, Disney, classical musicians, etc.), coming from users based in North America (obviously), Europe and Australia. But not on anything related to Hallyu: not from artists, not from fan accounts, etc. Like, my usual look at the #joowon tag on Instagram looks...entirely ordinary? Why is that? Does anyone know?

 

Also, I did get a good deal of writing done for the next Seolleim in Salzburg fic these past few days. It's not stuff that I can actually post an official preview because of spoilers, but just for the record: I did finally get to the proposal :wub: No surprise on the outcome (since, you know, Nae Il is Nae Il and she would've said "Yes" from Day One), but you'll have to wait for the finished fic to discover how exactly Cha Yoo Jin does it in my own imaginary universe. ;) 

I did not know about the #BlackoutTuesday event until the day was almost over and I live in a town that had protest and riots.

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1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

I have seen few stars posting #Blackouttuesday, for instance star like Boa, but, what I have observed is most of the stars who have posted or participated in the campaign have some kind of relation with Holly wood or stars who have repatriated to South Korea. In Korean news media there is virtually no mention of this movement(probable due to diplomatic issues). I think a lot of section in Korea are sensitized on racial issue ,for that matter they have less exposure to such kind of incidence through media(I am no expert on South Korean behavior, it is just my observation):neutral: I was hoping Joo won would participate :confounded:

 

I think that, more so than JW, I was expecting to see references from fan accounts - since the K-drama fandom is an international community. Of course, I'm only going by what shows up under that #joowon tag search, so it's a really small sample that is most likely not representative at all.

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

Here the evidence of my observation. Sample size is small, but it does kind of give me some conclusive evidence after searching through South Korean news feed. I guess SK is still busy in dealing with covid-19 situation and also there are no protests going in South Korea per se, only East Asian country to go on protest is Japan if we look at the protest map, so I guess information might not have been disseminated properly :neutral:

 

I'm not entirely sure what factors are involved, but my guess is that Korea being relatively ethnically homogeneous (especially compared to the countries where demonstrations and messages of support have been more prevalent) does mean that what's happening in the US is a bit further off the radar. It's not so much that they don't know (or at least I think not, since the protests across the States are covered by Hong Kong's news media, for instance), but that it's something "out there", foreign, or just surreal (i.e. those news reports are probably still sinking in at the "Wait, what happened where to whom? Like, seriously - this is for real???" sort of level).

 

This is not to say that Korean society as a general whole is innocent: racial prejudices do exist and have permeated a number of common everyday practices and beliefs (e.g. differences in how visitors or expats of different ethnic backgrounds are treated; negative comments about skin tone - which, yes, I'm aware are actually socio-economic in origin, but still disproportionately affect black and brown people in Korea and their descendants). But the whole concept of violent anti-black racism on a systemic or institutionalized level...that's arguably new for a lot of folks, and it's a lot to take in all at once.

 

Not only that, but generally speaking, from my experience, people tend to be far more consciously aware of how they are disadvantaged as opposed to how they are privileged. No specific criticism here: it's simply part of human nature. 

 

So I'm not surprised that it's repatriated Korean artists or those who also do a lot of overseas work (like BoA, who's done collabs in the States) who are more consciously aware of what's going on and choosing to speak out right now. That extends to the cast and crew of Parasite, because the Best Picture win at the Oscars would have thrown the Eurocentrism  of mainstream Hollywood into stark relief. 

 

1 hour ago, kireeti2 said:

Joo won's movie first poster, I skeptical if it is joo won in the poster, since we cannot guess the height with the fire fighter gear. :)

 

It...might be him, just going by the build, general body proportions, etc. But it's hard for me to say, since I can't say I know the other cast members' builds all that well :P 

 

EDIT

 

I see that while I was writing up this post, we've gotten a new face. Welcome, @Nella2019!

 

0fec3af4a175c08d6e7b7791c11a4cf9.jpg

 

So, since you are new to Soompi forums, I just want to give you a quick word of tech-related advice that other fans gave me when I first joined: the general rule is to wait at least one hour between posts. If you want to quote/respond to multiple posts, my suggestion is that you put them all into a single comment before posting :) 

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Not directly JW-related, but given my earlier question about the Hallyu fandom and recent develops relating to Black Lives Matter...I guess this is one way of doing it :P 

 

K-Pop Fans Are Flooding The "White Lives Matter" And "Whiteout Wednesday" Hashtags To Drown Out All The Racist Tweets

 

Why am I not surprised that there would be some sort of counter-protest after #BlackoutTuesday the other day? And for the K-pop fandoms to respond like this.

 

(Just to clarify, again in light of this being an international fandom: there is nothing wrong with being white. A person's race is a result of their genes; it simply is what it is. But this was in response to a white supremacist hashtag, and that's a whole other ball game.)

 

And for something that actually is JW-related - why the heck is Fatal Intuition (literal Korean title: It's Him) translated as Gnome here??? :lol: Like, I understand it's just some weird computerized translation based solely on how the Korean title is pronounced, but still!

 

 

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8 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, since you are new to Soompi forums, I just want to give you a quick word of tech-related advice that other fans gave me when I first joined: the general rule is to wait at least one hour between posts. If you want to quote/respond to multiple posts, my suggestion is that you put them all into a single comment before posting :) 

Welcome to the Class 101 of Soompi forum by @kittyna, @Nella2019:). Jokes apart, Welcome to the group @Nella2019

And yeah a quick advice from me which @kittyna gave me when I was a newbie ,"By the way, just a quick tech-related tip: you can just select the text you want to quote instead of quoting an entire post. I'm not 100% sure how that works on a phone, but on a computer, just highlight the text you're quoting with your mouse, hover around until you see a button that says "Quote selection", and click that. When you quote that way, it's easier for everyone to see what part of someone else's post you're referring to." It will make your replies convenient to type and read.:):)

 

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

relatively ethnically homogeneous

I wanted to use this reason for the non-existence of protest in Korea, but Korea is not as homogeneous as we think it is, at least not in terms of culture and religion. And they do have contacts from other ethnic groups from time to time. Like you can see they came into contact with Turks during Korean war and few of the population did accepted a religion which is completely alien to them, right now South Korea is encouraging immigration as they population is aging and they are need for more working population which shows that the society is capable of living in harmony with different ethnic groups(Like they are lot of people emigrating into South Korean not only from South East Asia , but also from Eastern European countries, Central Asia and Russia). And the protest in Japan was also due to the police brutality on a Kurdish refugee, so yeah they had to protest against the system for being, and also there is no systematic racism in South Korean administration or in policy making, and the protest around the world happened in the countries where there use to exist racism or still exist, in countries like UK, France, Germany etc. In Canada also I have read that indigenous people had or still kind of facing marginalization and systematic racism in some parts of provinces. So the protest are happening in the countries where they are actually sensitized towards racism and know how a systematic racist can harm a section of their society:mellow:

 

9 hours ago, kittyna said:

This is not to say that Korean society as a general whole is innocent: racial prejudices do exist and have permeated a number of common everyday practices and beliefs (e.g. differences in how visitors or expats of different ethnic backgrounds are treated; negative comments about skin tone - which, yes, I'm aware are actually socio-economic in origin, but still disproportionately affect black and brown people in Korea and their descendants

No country is immune from hatred and racism, as time progresses South Korea will become more accepting and accommodating towards other ethnic backgrounds. I think it is kind of unfair to single out SK, even there are absent of protests in South Africa(which is notoriously known to had more systematic racist government than any other government), it was absent  in South East Asia also which known to champion of diversity, or even  in my country it was absent(because of lock down), but still, few celebrities tweeted in support which was ironic, since most of them endorse fairness products, smh:unamused:. So the thing is absent of protest is not synonymous to not showing solidarity, but they need more time to sensitize. And being on online protest not necessarily means showing solidarity, few might be using it to expand they followers base, like social influencers. And this absence of protest is also partly due to search engine SK uses, that is Naver which is used by 92% of SKs, especially under 35 years old age group, so guess it was not a trending topic in that search engine.

On a happy note hears a celebrity(rapper) who is not only participating in campaign but also encouraging his fans today what they can by sharing the link:grin:

 

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4 hours ago, kittyna said:

Not directly JW-related, but given my earlier question about the Hallyu fandom and recent develops relating to Black Lives Matter...I guess this is one way of doing it :P 

 

K-Pop Fans Are Flooding The "White Lives Matter" And "Whiteout Wednesday" Hashtags To Drown Out All The Racist Tweets

 

Why am I not surprised that there would be some sort of counter-protest after #BlackoutTuesday the other day? And for the K-pop fandoms to respond like this.

In my defense, I did not see this post before replying to your previous post. WTF!? White live do matter that's why police never arrest anyone carrying an AR15 refile with them or legalized weed business without any reparations  to Hispanics/Blacks who were primary victims of criminalizing of weed :unamused:, I think South Korean news channel should also be held accountable for not sensitizing their citizens about systematic racism :anguished:

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Here's the actress from "SKY CASTLE" drama posting about #Blackouttuesday:D

Here is  a child actress, in her teens posting. I think this campaign is rather popular among young people, mostly in age group of below 35 years, given the aging population of south Korea, I guess it did not resonate with the mass in South Korea and on top of that some progressive celebrities have also shied away from the online protest, maybe they did their part by signing up the petition or made a donation towards in support of the protest:confused:

 

 

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I do want to point out that my intention has never been to pick on South Korea in particular - the only reason why I'm focusing on it here is because this is ultimately a Hallyu fan forum site, and I want to keep our discussions as relevant as possible.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I wanted to use this reason for the non-existence of protest in Korea, but Korea is not as homogeneous as we think it is, at least not in terms of culture and religion. And they do have contacts from other ethnic groups from time to time. Like you can see they came into contact with Turks during Korean war and few of the population did accepted a religion which is completely alien to them, right now South Korea is encouraging immigration as they population is aging and they are need for more working population which shows that the society is capable of living in harmony with different ethnic groups(Like they are lot of people emigrating into South Korean not only from South East Asia , but also from Eastern European countries, Central Asia and Russia).

 

I am well aware that Korea is not actually ethnically homogeneous - I said "relatively" because I was thinking of it in contrast to Canada (where I live) or the US, the UK, etc. For instance, there was a controversy surrounding admitting Middle Eastern refugees to Jeju-do; and in addition to visible minorities of all sorts (for the case of Korea, that would be people of European, Afro-Caribbean, Middle Eastern, South Asian descent, etc.) there are also the invisible ethnic minorities (i.e. other East Asians). But the proportion of the population that identifies as simply "Korean" is still in the vast majority.

 

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I think it is kind of unfair to single out SK, even there are absent of protests in South Africa(which is notoriously known to had more systematic racist government than any other government), it was absent  in South East Asia also which known to champion of diversity, or even  in my country it was absent(because of lock down), but still, few celebrities tweeted in support which was ironic, since most of them endorse fairness products, smh:unamused:. So the thing is absent of protest is not synonymous to not showing solidarity, but they need more time to sensitize.

 

I know that actually going out to protest isn't possible for everyone - and, if I'm completely honest, I don't entirely agree with it even in places where they have been happening peacefully. My concern here is that a protest, even when it's peaceful, can lead to a spike in COVID-19 transmission due to large crowds of people being in close proximity chanting slogans, giving speeches, etc. And since we know that in multiracial countries like the US, COVID-19 has disporportionately affected Blacks, Indigenous peoples, and other people of colour due to less access to proper healthcare, the fact that many essential workers are racialized minorities, etc., my fear is that going out to protest for the lives of a marginalized community will end up endangering that same marginalized community in a different way.

 

What I was hoping to see from Korea, though, was the netizens - because everyone talks about how powerful that particular force is in enacting social and cultural change, I thought there would be more of a social media protest. Like, say, taking part in #BlackoutTuesday or what I stumbled across yesterday with the international K-pop fandom. Seeing that some celebrities and other public figures did take part and, as you pointed out @kireeti2, are now encouraging the public to sign petitions at least tells me that news of this has at least spread to South Korea. I'm not asking that Koreans speak up to what's happening in North America - that's not realistic when they have their own pressing issues to deal with - but I do hope that awareness of what's happening to racialized people internationally will prompt Korean society as a whole to reflect on their own implicit racial/ethnic biases in hopes that they could treat the immigrants and minorities in their midst with greater respect. Not that the respect isn't already there for a lot of people, but we can always do better :) 

 

So, once again, I do want to give a kudos to Yong Pal for at least touching on the challenges facing undocumented migrants living in Korea - I'm sure that was an eye-opener for many viewers, both in Korea itself and overseas. :heart: 

 

As for me as a JW fan personally, I try to incorporate issues surrounding racial/ethnic identity, racism, Islamophobia, etc. in my Seolleim in Salzburg series - my hope is to show some of the things faced by East Asians in Europe and North America (e.g. always being assumed to be a foreigner, always being assumed to be Chinese, "Yellow Fever" - i.e. showing sexual or romantic interest in Asians simply because they're Asian and you think that's hot, which I chose to highlight in light of Hallyu in particular - , etc.) but also show the reality that East Asians are also incredibly privileged as far as racialized peoples go (e.g. in contrast with Middle Eastern or South Asian people in Europe due to Islamophobia).

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3 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, once again, I do want to give a kudos to Yong Pal for at least touching on the challenges facing undocumented migrants living in Korea - I'm sure that was an eye-opener for many viewers, both in Korea itself and overseas. :heart: 

 

Oh - and also Ojakgyo Brothers, which also addressed prejudices people held towards dark-skinned Asians in Korea. I know that the casting decision for Guk Su leaves much to be desired (since they opted for a Korean child actor wearing dark makeup rather than an actor of Southeast Asian descent), but given that this was almost ten years ago, I hope things have been improving since :) 

 

If nothing else, Yong Pal's production team did a better job with diverse casting: while I couldn't find specific information for the entire migrant family we see in the drama, Ali (the young son who befriends Tae Hyun and Yeo Jin) is actually played by Isaiah Park (real name: Terrance Isaiah Ferguson) who is of mixed Black and Korean descent. It's never stated in the drama where exactly the family's from. So it's not perfect representation (but then again, even Asian American actors in Hollywood rarely end up matching exactly with their characters' ethnicity), but it's still an improvement.

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2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I do want to point out that my intention has never been to pick on South Korea in particular

I didn't realize that I was defending South Korea, must be cultural influence of K-drama:confused:. The soft power strategies used by the countries often camouflage negative things of a country and that's what makes people thing that country is perfect and without any flaws.

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I said "relatively"

My apologies, I missed that "relatively":open_mouth:, I should have read the reply more carefully. And started talking about East Asia's diversity to an East Asian:no_mouth:, again I am terrible sorry

 

Everything to you said can be summed up in this video of "Patriot Act" episode

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

For instance, there was a controversy surrounding admitting Middle Eastern refugees to Jeju-do

I think that reaction was expected in Jeju Island, because the refugees took the "no visa" policy to route to get into the island which is known to hold different political and cultural ideology from mainland south Korea. This is what I have observed in East Asia, there homogeneity is viewed as their strength, it is a fact up to some extent, but this homogeneity has often led to conformity in the society, like accepting everything as it is in social and cultural sphere. As a result it led to high suicide rates, increase in cases of depression, in japan this depression has led to phenomenon of "HIKIKOMORI", where the he/she withdraws from the society due to too much conformity, and as per Korea suicide rate is one of highest in OECD nations group. Therefore, I think in my humble opinion East Asian countries need to have some kind social and cultural revolution before they can look outwards, first they need to accept themselves before accepting refugees.

 

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

always being assumed to be Chinese

I am kind of guilty of doing such thing in the past, assuming every East Asian person to be Chinese origin:cold_sweat:, but I am glad I have changed.

 

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

Yellow Fever

Coming to such kind of slur, which is often used by westerners against East Asians, I think it is mostly because of lack of education, they don't know yellow sea is not just a sea, but it name came from "Yellow river civilization", which is one of the oldest and advance civilization to ever exist. But ignorance of a person often deprives him/her to see things in more meaningful way.

 

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

showing sexual or romantic interest in Asians simply because they're Asian and you think that's hot

I think it has partly do with the K-pop culture, where Female Idols(both in Japan and Korea, but in Japan it is more explicit in nature) are often show in light of sexual appeal implicitly, with the costumes, in others words like Eye candy. I often find the videos to in way de-humanizing about the girls who are performing in the music videos. But still, I might have a narrow understanding about it the topic.  I would like to hear it from you, as woman how do you perceive this Idol culture of girls groups?:mellow:

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  • Guest changed the title to Joo Won 주원
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