Joo Won 주원 [Drama- The Midnight Studio/ 야한(夜限) 사진관]

[airplanegirl]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:59 PM, kittyna said:

In the meantime, though, @airplanegirl, do you remember from JW's past dramas (e.g. My Sassy Girl) what the guidelines were on this forum re: spoilers? I was around on Soompi back then, but more as a lurker than an active participant, so I don't really remember off the top of my head.

Use the spoilers tag whenever sharing theories/previews/talking about the episode.

[kireeti2]

Second teaser of Alice drama. Damn, I must say it looks intense packed with lot of emotional and action scenes. I guess this sort of confirm that they are Mother and Son in the drama. Kim Hee-seo as a loving mother and Joo won as an outcast at school. And boy! the music as made the teaser ten times better, if the drama holds up to its teasers hype, I am pretty sure this drama will get 20%- to 25% ratings(as Fan I wish), but practically it might hover-around 15%- to 20%

By the way I would like to credit this fan account for letting me know that second teaser was out

Follow this account if you guys are not following

[kittyna]

Spoiler

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, I head it too, I found it hypocritical in nature. Like this province as a cross on their province flag, if I am not right. Like if they want to promote secularism they should start by changing the flag like "charity should start at your home". I completely agree with you, that these sort of reformation of Muslims religion is often used as ammunition by Alt-right groups, everywhere.

 

Since you brought up India, @kireeti2, I think I should return the favour by giving a bit more about the Canadian context - here goes! (Warning: massive layperson's history lesson ahead!)

 

As far as provinces go, Quebec...is complicated. But things make a lot more sense when you realize that it was originally a Roman Catholic colony of France that was conquered by the Protestant British in the 18th century. And while the situation was better for the Québécois (the French colonists and their descendants) than they were for, say, the Indigenous peoples, they were still second-class citizens due to their faith: British law initially barred Catholics from holding government or public positions, and even after those rules were loosened, most of the political and economic power was still concentrated in the English-speaking Protestant minority. At the same time, however, fearing conversions out of the faith for the sake of upward social mobility, the Catholic church really clamped down and took control of the people's social and cultural lives: the Québécois were encouraged to keep their heads down, stay on their farms instead of trying to compete in the big industrial cities like Montreal (which, to this day, is still the locus of wealth and English-speaking communities in the province), and have large families in order to maintain the numerical majority.

 

This approach worked about as well as you imagined: a public pushback against the church took place over the course of the mid-20th century, such that now, even though many Québécois are still practicing Catholics in their daily lives, the government (which is now also Québécois-dominated) swung entirely the other way by promoting a rigid official secularism and separation between church and state.

 

However, the reality is that by this point, the different aspects of Québécois identity (French language, Roman Catholic, being of literal French ancestry, etc.) have all become inextricably linked. So when they see minority and immigrant populations now coming in, many of whom end up settling in English-speaking parts of Montreal, conservative Québécois end up freaking out. They claim that immigrants and ethnic minorities erode the place of the French language - and while they might not be able to be openly racist or anti-immigrant, they double down on their own bloodline as pure laine (literally "pure wool") Québécois.

 

As for religion, that becomes the fuse in this larger immigrant-centred cultural debate: legally, the restrictions apply to all religions (so, just like you can't wear a hijab, you also can't wear a prominent crucifix), but literally everyone knows that the "religious dress" in question is actually referring to religious minorities (Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, etc.). Because, let's be honest: a kippeh, hijab, or turban is far more visible than a cross necklace. 

 

These restrictions in Quebec have been nearly universally condemned by the rest of the country - there are probably citizens who privately agree with Quebec's xenophobic rhetoric, but most official bodies wouldn't do so - but if history has taught us Canadians anything, it's that Quebec's conservative traditionalists form something of the country's rebel child. Because they're still caught up in this victim complex (i.e. "You want to get rid of our language and our culture and our customs by literally trying to outnumber us with all these immigrants."), pushback from other provinces and the federal government just further confirm that sense of victimization and they're liable to just double down on their own stance.

 

Which...is how Bill 21 wound up becoming law anyway  

 

I don't live in Quebec, and although I do hold religious beliefs, I don't flaunt it publicly. But that's a matter of choice - and right now, Quebec's government has taken that choice away from many of its citizens. Not because they outright banned religious dress (they didn't), but because the restrictions limit what job opportunities are available to those who do wear it. Just like the British did all those centuries ago - I wonder if they see the irony in that.

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I am glad you didn't take it in the wrong way, on top of that I was taken-back by your reply. Since no matter how much we modernize deep down we all are tribal in nature and would like to cling on to our beliefs and opinion and will not let others say otherwise and I sort of thought that maybe my reply was reactionary in nature because after typing my reply and reading it, it sort of gave me an impression of person who was lashing-out, but it all started with that Buzz video, the other video was informative but the buzz video made me think, wait I should take this opportunity and promote about real Muslim world Feminist who are trying to reform and fights for the rights of the Women. Here I was like thinking that "Did I just went too far? I was like maybe I should have your know let it go" . And I was like maybe you might think like "Why is this guy preaching like he knows the hardship of minority women?" Sort of things were on mind while I was sleeping 

I was mentally preparing myself to write an apology for going too far.

 

Do you honestly think I didn't notice how reactive your response was? Of course I did - but the good thing about your last post of your day is that, due to the time difference, I get a good chunk of my day to carefully think about my own reply  

 

But the way I see it, there's nothing wrong with being passionate - and I concede by this point that you simply are more passionate about these issues than I am. I'm not particularly interested in politics or social justice causes, but I am interested in learning about and understanding people's stories and real lived experiences.

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the thanks for sharing that ted talk video, now I can follow another brave women and learn from her, she does looks familiar and I think I did saw that video some where but sort lost from my memory, nevertheless, thanks it was refreshing to know that she is your inspiration for creating character like Fatima and I found her character more intriguing than Muhammad's, since women have hard time navigating in west due to their obligation towards their family and their personal freedom

 

So, full disclosure: I only included the Buzzfeed video to show what I meant by "wearing hijab out of solidarity". I actually just saw it for the first time yesterday, before I included it in my post. The other videos, though (the TED talk, the one with two Muslim girls trying out a modest fashion line, and this one I'm sharing now about Muslim teens shopping for formal wear) are the ones that actually informed my fic-writing. Those, and all the pictures of hijabi or Muslim fashion I saw on Pinterest  

 

@kireeti2 - We both tried to share the teaser at the same time, and you just beat me by a hair  I'll come back with my comments on it later, but for now, thanks for sharing!

 

[EDIT]

 

Can we also talk about this AMAZING piece of fanart???

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Do you honestly think I didn't notice how reactive your response was? Of course I did - but the good thing about your last post of your day is that, due to the time difference, I get a good chunk of my day to carefully think about my own reply  

I am really sorry, my reply should have been more measured. And thank goodness for time-difference, otherwise we would have had fierce debate and lost the essence of the topic.

 

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

I think I should return the favour by giving a bit more about the Canadian context - here goes! (Warning: massive layperson's history lesson ahead!)

Yeah, I do now a thing or two about Canadian history but not at the micro level that you have mentioned. I know that Canada is sort of hybrid colony of British and French, and due to diseases spread by the early settlers, the Indigenous population had declined drastically. And it sort of has Federal structure with strong central or federal  control, just like what we have in India(which we obviously copied from you guys). But I never knew that a simple ban has such a deep rooted fear against immigrants. But they due have justification to Ban religious outfits for civil servants, since Canada is sort of secular state(not playing a devils advocate but looking at from law point of view), just like in India citizenship Amendment Law was passed on same technicality, in the name of law and of course legitimacy came from the legislatures approval. The way I see it this particular province(Since the name is difficult to spell and remember the spelling) it is much like mini-french in Canada, rigid interpretation of Secularism meaning.

 

 

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

I don't live in Quebec, and although I do hold religious beliefs, I don't flaunt it publicly. But that's a matter of choice - and right now, Quebec's government has taken that choice away from many of its citizens. Not because they outright banned religious dress (they didn't), but because the restrictions limit what job opportunities are available to those who do wear it. Just like the British did all those centuries ago - I wonder if they see the irony in that.

Well, I am an atheist and I also abhor such kind of bans, it is very dividing and will always erode the social capital and it is also in way dis-empowering women from minorities, just like you mentioned they will lose opportunities. We atheist had never wished of any sort of ban of any religion but sometimes the alt-right people or majoritarians often use of our rational arguments to further their bigotry. And I feel religion do bring people together and give a sense of belongingness and it is only effective way to tackle dysfuntionality of society like loneliness and suicide. Perhaps, it more like phase, and having constant dialogue and bringing more awareness to the majority is key. I mean look at the Ireland, it's more catholic than this province, but they did not ban any sort of religious outfits at work place.

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

ED talk, the one with two Muslim girls trying out a modest fashion line, and this one I'm sharing now about Muslim teens shopping for formal wear)

Aw, it's heartwarming see girls(of any religion) to  do want they want, without any peer-pressure or family pressure or social pressure

 

Spoiler

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

But the way I see it, there's nothing wrong with being passionate - and I concede by this point that you simply are more passionate about these issues than I am. I'm not particularly interested in politics or social justice causes, but I am interested in learning about and understanding people's stories and real lived experiences.

This passion is also sort of a self-interest, firstly I am choosing a wining side in the battle of gender equality and I honestly believe that future is female(to bring a pop reference, if you are following Sherlock Holmes TV series there was a special episode before season 4, sort of mix of present and medieval age, where it shows that and there was dialogue that men are fighting with a force which will win in the end and that force happened to be women). And secondly, I would like to quote Nelson Mandela because it's Nelson Mandela day, he said and I quote "Freedom cannot be achieved unless women have been emancipated from all sort of oppression", Which does makes sense, if a woman cannot get justice, the day will come when I will or my future generation will not get justice. But it's not to say that I will agree with woman no matter what she says, I would still disagree with her respectfully and have a healthy debate.

 

@kittynaAnd the classic background music made the teaser look ten times better and intense. I use to think classic music was overrated,  I couldn't have been more wrong

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

@kireeti2 - We both tried to share the teaser at the same time, and you just beat me by a hair  I'll come back with my comments on it later, but for now, thanks for sharing!

Lol, I guess great minds not only think alike but also do alike. 

And also I am 9 hours ahead of you, so better get use it

Oh, now I get that video incident from joo won's account. Maybe his staff upload the second teaser instead of first teaser, therefore the video was deleted.

And I also would like to add, I just cannot stop playing this teaser it's visuals and music is  exquisite I never knew a teaser with less 60 seconds get bring such joy, if someone would have said this thing in the past I would have just laughed-off it

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Can we also talk about this AMAZING piece of fanart???

Yeah, I saw that too. He/she made Joo won look ten times handsome with that fan-art. It does looks familiar with work of your profile pic, do you think it's the same artist? coincidence ?

 

And also I think I figured out Alice story, it can be a spoiler so I will hide it

Spoiler

I think there are two Kim Hee Seo, like twins or look alike people. So, what I think happened was Joo won's mom was  killed due to mistake in identity. Like the time traveling villains might have  went to kill the badass Kim Hee-seo but killed the innocent one(Ah, RickRoll'D it's similar story line of "The girl who sees smells", that drama was decent one but still, rating were below average, like in that drama villain kills the male lead's sister instead of Female lead since they both have same name in the drama). And after few years  Joo won is still in hot-pursuit of the killers  and some how meets the badass one and the whole story starts to avenge his mom and protect the badass kim hee-seo. It would be funny scene if Joo won acted as a real son towards badass Kim Hee-seo, like when men try to flirt or date with her, he would be like a protective son fending them off her

 

[kittyna]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But I never knew that a simple ban has such a deep rooted fear against immigrants. But they due have justification to Ban religious outfits for civil servants, since Canada is sort of secular state(not playing a devils advocate but looking at from law point of view), just like in India citizenship Amendment Law was passed on same technicality, in the name of law and of course legitimacy came from the legislatures approval. The way I see it this particular province(Since the name is difficult to spell and remember the spelling) it is much like mini-french in Canada, rigid interpretation of Secularism meaning.

 

Yeah - Quebec does openly acknowledge that they looked to France as a model for their own version of secularism.

 

I should point out, though, that by "civil servants", I don't just mean politicians or judges or police, but any public/government employees - including schoolteachers, which is where a lot of Canadians just went, "Whoa...that's a bit too much."

 

Also, the way multiculturalism works in the rest of Canada is that people can wear markers of their cultural/ethnic/religious identities as long as they don't use their public office to actively proselytize. So, for example, the leader of our left wing party (the New Democratic Party) openly identifies as Sikh and wears a turban - and many Canadians aren't fazed by that at all. That's his religion, that's how he chooses to respect his own faith, and as long as he does his job properly, that's what matters. So for a province to try to make a hard-and-fast rule on the issue was just baffling - and also a violation of our national constitution (which somehow didn't stop them from doing it anyway - like I said, Quebec's the rebel child ).

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Well, I am an atheist and I also abhor such kind of bans, it is very dividing and will always erode the social capital and it is also in way dis-empowering women from minorities, just like you mentioned they will lose opportunities. We atheist had never wished of any sort of ban of any religion but sometimes the alt-right people or majoritarians often use of our rational arguments to further their bigotry. And I feel religion do bring people together and give a sense of belongingness and it is only effective way to tackle dysfuntionality of society like loneliness and suicide.

 

I see. I confess that you were so passionate about the rights of Muslim women and so interested in Muhammed and Fatima as fanfic characters that I actually thought you were Muslim all this time. So, you're not the only one who sometimes had that mental reaction of, "Oh, crap - I'm preaching to someone who's an actual insider, aren't I?"  

 

4 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Second teaser of Alice drama. Damn, I must say it looks intense packed with lot of emotional and action scenes. I guess this sort of confirm that they are Mother and Son in the drama. Kim Hee-seo as a loving mother and Joo won as an outcast at school. And boy! the music was made the teaser ten times better, if the drama holds up to its teasers hype, I am pretty sure this drama will get 20%- to 25% ratings(as Fan I wish), but practically it might hover-around 15%- to 20%

 

lol - I guess it does confirm the mother-son relationship, at least in the past/flashback part of the show.  

 

By the way, the whole time they were filming this, I was actually skeptical of JW playing his own teenage self. Like, he's full of aegyo in real life, but he's hardly baby-faced enough to look like a passable teenager now that he's in his early 30s  But then I saw that shot from this second teaser of him reacting to his mom's death and that's when I was like, "Oh...I get it." Like, seriously, that one shot was a combo of similar moments from Yong Pal and Fatal Intuition, and I wouldn't be surprised if the director didn't cast a child actor just for the sake of that scene. 

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, I saw that too. He/she made Joo won look ten times handsome with that fan-art. It does looks familiar with work of your profile pic, do you think it's the same artist? coincidence ?

 

Probably coincidence - because the artist who drew my profile pic is Korean, and this fan artist is Japanese.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

And also I think I figured out Alice story, it can be a spoiler so I will hide it

 

Spoiler

That was an really interesting idea. I think I'll have a better sense of this once someone translates the trailer into English, but I did find a Spanish translation (I can't read Spanish well, but at least I can read it better than Korean ), and there does seem to be a reference to a look-alike or doppelganger: a girl in the present timeline (second female lead, maybe...don't remember who's playing her) is telling JW something along the lines of, "Let's go out on a limb and say he/she is a doppelganger".

 

Now that we have his younger reaction shot, we know for sure his mother actually died (i.e. it's not that she disappeared - she died, and he saw it). So maybe JW, now grown up and still trying to catch his mother's murderer after ten years of trying, comes across Kim Hee Sun and he's just like, "Whaaat...?"

 

By the way, I'm super-super-curious about Kim Hee Sun's role in all of this - I keep looking at that gun she has in these teasers and I end up imagining scenarios like her also being a time traveler who's come to the present (from presumably the future) to chase after criminals who time traveled to escape their crimes, with that gun being some sort of weapon that zaps them back where they came from.

 

And...maybe now I'm starting to overthink things a little  

 

One last thing about the whole doppelganger possibility: I really hope that if that's the case, Alice does it well, because the whole "one actor playing two characters" trope is, in my opinion, starting to get a bit old. Like, I can see why it appeals to actors, but there are so many dramas out there now about twins, or lookalikes, or parallel characters from parallel universes (and, yes, that's a dig at The King: Eternal Monarch, thanks for asking), or past lives/reincarnation plots that I want to see something new and different and outside of the box. Like Room No. 9, for example - which has one of the best "one actor, two roles" premises I've seen so far.  

 

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

14 minutes ago, kittyna said:

for example, the leader of our left wing party (the New Democratic Party) openly identifies as Sikh and wears a turban

Yeah, I read about him, he is the leader of opposition in federal politics, if I am not wrong. But we do have uneasy relationship with Canada. If you were following international news, your Prime Minister was sort of got some smacks from our government, like he was not well received. I think it had to with "Khalistan Issue"(if you know about it, it is actually designated as terrorist Organization in our country). So on behalf of our government I would like to apologies for my government treatment towards your Prime Minister, for heavens sake he came with his family and we should have treated them better.

 

 

Spoiler

19 minutes ago, kittyna said:

I see. I confess that you were so passionate about the rights of Muslim women and so interested in Muhammed and Fatima as fanfic characters that I actually thought you were Muslim all this time. So, you're not the only one who sometimes had that mental reaction of, "Oh, crap - I'm preaching to someone who's an actual insider, aren't I?"  

Lol, my name was big hint that I am not Muslim(not that anything wrong in presuming that I am a Muslim and also s my countries Muslim citizens population is second highest Muslim population after Indonesia). But I am sure there are men in the Muslim community who are also as passionate as I am in advocating equal rights for Muslim Women. And all that Holy book talk I said was from the speeches and literature of the Feminist activist I mentioned in my arguments. I was natural interested in these two characters because I never got a chance to know what exactly does western citizens think about Muslims, since I have pretty clear view about Middle East, South East Asia and East Asia, but not real North American view. So I was sort of naturally interested,since the ideology of west often create ripple effects in East because it is sort of power house powering the globalization and International trade. Being an Atheist it actually makes me an outsider, but I do have my fair share of socialization with Muslim religion, since I had chance of visiting Sufi shrines and I actually belong to a tribal community of Deccan plateau of  India and we do have elements of Islam in our rituals while  worshiping nature, I think my culture is sort of fusion Hinduism and Islam the two dominant religions of India which sort of pushed me away from these two dominant religions. Not only Islam, I did have fair share of engagement with Christianity also, but I don't whether it  was protestant or catholic, I think it was protestant, since catholic christian are found in deep south of India. After all these interaction I finally settled with Atheism, which sort of made sense but I do respect all religions as long as they are not too extreme in their conduct and preaching.

 

43 minutes ago, kittyna said:

second female lead, maybe...don't remember who's playing her

It's Lee Da-In

44 minutes ago, kittyna said:

 So maybe JW, now grown up and still trying to catch his mother's murderer after ten years of trying, comes across Kim Hee Sun and he's just like, "Whaaat...?"

Lol, I just imagined joo won saying that and it cracked me up pretty hardly

50 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Like, seriously, that one shot was a combo of similar moments from Yong Pal and Fatal Intuition, and I wouldn't be surprised if the director didn't cast a child actor just for the sake of that scene. 

You forgot "Bridal Mask", he cried a lot in that drama series also and in "Ojakgyo Brothers", "Baking King: Kim Ta Goo", "Good Doctor". I guess only drama he didn't cry a lot was "Naeil's Cantabile" and "7th Grade Civil Servant", I guess that was the reason for low ratings, he didn't cry enough

[kittyna]

Spoiler

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, I read about him, he is the leader of opposition in federal politics, if I am not wrong.

 

No, that'd be the leader of our Conservative party (which, by international standards anyway, is still fairly moderate/centrist ). But things can always change in a democratic system, so there's that.

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

But we do have uneasy relationship with Canada. If you were following international news, your Prime Minister was sort of got some smacks from our government, like he was not well received. I think it had to with "Khalistan Issue"(if you know about it, it is actually designated as terrorist Organization in our country). So on behalf of our government I would like to apologies for my government treatment towards your Prime Minister, for heavens sake he came with his family and we should have treated them better.

 

Don't worry about it; to be honest, I don't recall much of anything from that visit. But now that you brought it up, I searched up news stories from that visit, and while the Khalistan Issue may have been what was the big deal in India itself, I now remember that the big controversies from that visit over here in Canada were the Prime Minister's decision to meet with Jaspal Atwal (who was convicted of the attempted murder of an Indian politician on Canadian soil), and his many photo opps wearing Indian clothes (I don't know if that was a big deal in India itself, but for many Canadians, felt like a caricature of Indianness at best, and White privilege-fueled cultural appropriation at worst). So, it is the sort of news cycle where we collectively look back at and cringe, but not necessarily for the reasons you describe.

 

Also, if you do want to start counting these things...by rights, there should be a double-whammy of bad blood here since I'm not only Canadian, but also Chinese (i.e. border disputes and clashes right now). But I'm not that sort of a person who'd pull politics or news stories into interpersonal relationships, so no worries.  

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Lol, my name was big hint that I am not Muslim(not that anything wrong in presuming that I am a Muslim and also s my countries Muslim citizens population is second highest Muslim population after Indonesia).

 

And that just about gives away my rather poor knowledge of Indian names 

 

6 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

You forgot "Bridal Mask", he cried a lot in that drama series also and in "Ojakgyo Brothers", "Baking King: Kim Ta Goo", "Good Doctor". I guess only drama he didn't cry a lot was "Naeil's Cantabile" and "7th Grade Civil Servant", I guess that was the reason for low ratings, he didn't cry enough

 

I meant that the way he cried out, "EOMMA!" in that teaser reminded me a lot of Yong Pal - like, it's literally the same scream.

 

Gaksital's crying scenes were really epic - almost a bit too much so - but I think JW's sad scene performances in Ojakgyo Brothers and Good Doctor were also really good.

 

As for Nae Il's Cantabile and Level 7 Civil Servant...he didn't cry much in those roles, but the times he did...dang. The way JW cried during Cha Yoo Jin's hypnosis scene was really subtle, but that's what made sense for Yoo Jin as a character and it's actually one of my favourite crying scenes from JW so far, period. As for Level 7 Civil Servant, one of the few moments that did stand out to me in that drama was how, after that initial breakup in Episodes 10/11 (when Han Gil Ro caught Kim Seo Won breaking into his father's safe), he tried to call his superior to report what happened, but when he did get through on the phone, he just broke down crying instead. And, of course, there's also the bit between Han Gil Ro and his father in the airport, which was just, "Aw....."

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

No, that'd be the leader of our Conservative party (which, by international standards anyway, is still fairly moderate/centrist ). But things can always change in a democratic system, so there's that.

Even in Canada people from Indian origin are in conservative party? Jesus! I thought it was exclusive phenomenon of British politics, these conservatives will try their best to keep immigrants out these countries and I don't how does one's conscience allow to defend such kind of ideology. I thought at least he might be from center-left

 

Spoiler

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

Don't worry about it; to be honest, I don't recall much of anything from that visit

But still, we often take pride in treating "Guest as God", we just let the politics at best out of the situation instead of promotion Indian culture, which also says when an enemy is a guest you should treat with utmost respect

 

Spoiler

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

by rights, there should be a double-whammy of bad blood here since I'm not only Canadian, but also Chinese (i.e. border disputes and clashes right now). But I'm not that sort of a person who'd pull politics or news stories into interpersonal relationships, so no worries.  

 

Huh? But I thought you are from Hong Kong origin? I mean, I am not implying that Hong Kong is different country , but I heard or read articles which said that HongKongers identify themselves different from main land china, so when you said Cantonese, I sort of assumed that you are more Hong Kong. And yeah, I also don't like to mix country disputes with citizens relations, it's the issue of the government and I would never fight with a person based on border dispute(Pakistan is an exception, they are sort of my Brothers/Sisters and the border dispute with them is due to lack of democracy in Pakistan and for that reason I'll never let chance go by to remind them that their country is directly or indirectly ruled by Army which is not accountable to them)

Spoiler

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

, I now remember that the big controversies from that visit over here in Canada were the Prime Minister's decision to meet with Jaspal Atwal (who was convicted of the attempted murder of an Indian politician on Canadian soil)

It's just to show that our present government is Nationalistic, just to score some brownie points in election, lot of politician, or heck even judges were killed by the present government in power. So I was only sorry for the snub which your prime minister got, if it was President of USA, our prime minister would have rolled a silk red carpet, even if he had brought a guy who is anti-India. I will just clear few things about us India, since you brought up the border dispute, right now we are also having border issues not only with China(in this case china is just flexing its muscles to show us our place and it  was successful), but also with Nepal, which is the only Hindu country in the world. Presently my fellow citizens are high on nationalistic fever, like I would dare to compare it with the Nazi era nationalism, since the present government Ideology admires the Nazi's Ideology with respect to treatment of minorities, and we guys have always been xenophobic, like our racism is sort of like subtle. For instance, my countries North-Eastern region citizens looks a East Asian, so they are often labelled as Chinese or China's agent. Women get the worst kind of slur, like when they see woman from that they will just label them as prostitutes or as a massage girl. We still have a long way to go, presently my fellow citizens  empathy and sensitivity have reached nadir. And don't let those Bollywood movies fool you. Since most of my fellow Indians will always praise and will sort of hide these fault lines, in the name of pride or prestige but I don't subscribe to those things

Spoiler

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I don't know if that was a big deal in India itself, but for many Canadians, felt like a caricature of Indianness at best, and White privilege-fueled cultural appropriation at worst)

Don't worry, most of my Indian citizens(most I mean 95%) are not there yet, I mean to understand what cultural appropriation is. They are happy that a White man is wearing Indian clothes, and they see it as a sign of cultural victory, I often do a face slap whenever I hear these sort of things. But the head turban thing is mandatory to visit the Golden Temple with any outfit, it doesn't have to be Indian outfit, that was sort of going too far.

 

2 hours ago, kittyna said:

I meant that the way he cried out, "EOMMA!" in that teaser reminded me a lot of Yong Pal - like, it's literally the same scream.

Yeah, now that you mentioned it, I have re-watched that scene and the facial express was sort of similar with Yong pal scene.

Teaser with English Sub

@kittyna

Spoiler

It does mention about doppleganger, and last dialogue was "I will find her and protect her". So I guess he is convinced that she is his mom, but a mom with different future and past, sort of like a life of his mom if has not given birth to him. Like there was mention of changing past in order to change future topic in the teaser. Guess our theory is sort in the right direction. It's more in line of story of "Avengers: Endgame"

 

[kittyna]

Spoiler

37 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Even in Canada people from Indian origin are in conservative party? Jesus! I thought it was exclusive phenomenon of British politics, these conservatives will try their best to keep immigrants out these countries and I don't how does one's conscience allow to defend such kind of ideology. I thought at least he might be from center-left

 

No, I meant that the leader of the opposition right now in Canada is the leader of the Conservative party - and he's white. The Indian-Canadian politician I mentioned earlier, Jagmeet Singh, is the leader of our third major party.

 

But Canada's political parties, as a general whole, range from central to left - our Conservatives are the furthest right on the spectrum, but they're not, like, extreme far right or anything like that. More, like...the right side of central? If that makes sense?

 

41 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Huh? But I thought you are from Hong Kong origin? I mean, I am not implying that Hong Kong is different country , but I heard or read articles which said that HongKongers identify themselves different from main land china, so when you said Cantonese, I sort of assumed that you are more Hong Kong.

 

I was born in Hong Kong, but I also identify myself as ethnically and culturally Chinese.  

 

43 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Presently my fellow citizens are high on nationalistic fever, like I would dare to compare it with the Nazi era nationalism, since the present government Ideology admires the Nazi's Ideology with respect to treatment of minorities, and we guys have always been xenophobic, like our racism is sort of like subtle. For instance, my countries North-Eastern region citizens looks a East Asian, so they are often labelled as Chinese or China's agent. Women get the worst kind of slur, like when they see woman from that they will just label them as prostitutes or as a massage girl. We still have a long way to go, presently my fellow citizens  empathy and sensitivity have reached nadir. And don't let those Bollywood movies fool you. Since most of my fellow Indians will always praise and will sort of hide these fault lines, in the name of pride or prestige but I don't subscribe to those things

 

Which is why, unlike many others I've seen here in North America, I would never consider racism to be a "white" problem. I think every culture/society has its own "us vs. them" issues if you look hard enough - and I can definitely attest to hearing tons of slurs aimed at...well, literally everyone (whites, blacks, Indians/Pakistanis/South Asians...heck, even at mainland Chinese) from other Cantonese speakers growing up. 

 

46 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Don't worry, most of my Indian citizens(most I mean 95%) are not there yet, I mean to understand what cultural appropriation is. They are happy that a White man is wearing Indian clothes, and they see it as a sign of cultural victory, I often do a face slap whenever I hear these sort of things. But the head turban thing is mandatory to visit the Golden Temple with any outfit, it doesn't have to be Indian outfit, that was sort of going too far.

 

Whether or not something is cultural appropriation depends on context - so it might not necessarily be a bad thing if a non-Indian person wearing Indian clothing is acceptable in India. For instance, I know that, say, many people in Japan or Korea don't mind tourists or expats wearing kimono or hanbok for a day, and it's mostly western netizens who see the photos on social media who go all, "This is appropriation! It's offensive! You're just a weeaboo/koreaboo!" etc. And the actual locals are like, "Um...actually, we're totally okay with this...?"

 

49 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah, now that you mentioned it, I have re-watched that scene and the facial express was sort of similar with Yong pal scene.

 

And the posture and camera angle were like Fatal Intuition  

 

By the way, @kireeti2, your comment about the music in the Alice teaser makes me think of another behind-the-scenes thing I can share about my fic-writing: although I obviously listen to a lot of classical music as I work, another major source of inspiration is actually musical theatre.

 

Okay, I don't write and listen to musical theatre soundtracks at the same time - the lyrics would throw me off my groove if I tried. However, I do sometimes use characters and plot points from different musical shows to help me get more into the drama characters' heads: like, if I notice that a musical character and a drama character have certain things in common (e.g. background, experiences, personality, worldviews, etc.), I will use that musical character's songs to help flesh out the drama character for my fics.

So, I figured...why not offer up a glimpse into some of those musical-drama pairings? I don't have the time to do it right away, but I will come back to this in a future post - so stay tuned!  

[kireeti2]

Spoiler

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

For instance, I know that, say, many people in Japan or Korea don't mind tourists or expats wearing kimono or hanbok for a day, and it's mostly western netizens who see the photos on social media who go all, "This is appropriation! It's offensive! You're just a weeaboo/koreaboo!" etc. And the actual locals are like, "Um...actually, we're totally okay with this...?"

Not only western, there is actually counter influence also, like I have read an article where Japanese people were sort of following Mexican culture, like the outfits and the way the decorate cars, for example- Like low-riders. So I guess as long as they are sincere and know the essence of the culture it's okay to do that. But just doing it for the sake of photos and to brag on social media is somewhat problematic. Like there are lot of westerners who would like to mimic Hindu culture, but clearly don't know the essence behind few rituals. And this is not new, a lot of people in the west wanted to convert to Jewish religion because there were more noble prize winners from that  community, but it as nothing  to do with the religion, it's more like they got best education from childhood and were raised in stable environment, mostly in USA and UK.

 

Spoiler

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

Which is why, unlike many others I've seen here in North America, I would never consider racism to be a "white" problem. I think every culture/society has its own "us vs. them" issues if you look hard enough - and I can definitely attest to hearing tons of slurs aimed at...well, literally everyone (whites, blacks, Indians/Pakistanis/South Asians...heck, even at mainland Chinese) from other Cantonese speakers growing up. 

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Racism was never a white problem, but to identify this particular thing we wasted 2 centuries, I  guess we might need another 3-4 centuries to actually acknowledge it and another 3-4 centuries to come up with a solution. Because the xenophobia and racist slurs of East is kind embedded in the culture, like it's a social norm to exclude few communities and to be hostile towards different culture practices, that's why I always want to important this idea of west, where they readily accept new and different culture practices and accommodate them. But unfortunately we only like to important technology and business practices, only for the sake of modernizing the life not thinking process.

Spoiler

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

I was born in Hong Kong, but I also identify myself as ethnically and culturally Chinese.

Oh, I kind of was aware that you might be more inclined towards main land china, that's I was sort of afraid I might say something offensive while describing about "Cultural revolution and Hong Kong issues(Like one party two system issue and about being different from main land china)". Hope I did not say something which I might have made you feel offensive. And I would also like to give my view about the ongoing protests and power struggle between Hongkongers and Mainland China. I think both were at fault, Hong Kong pro-democrats were at fault for forcing the hand of Mainland China administration, like they did not call-off the protest even after backtracking on that extradition treaty, they did not know when to stop protest, since they have got what they want, and they were also in fault for not implementing their own security bill because it was in the agreement with the Mainland china when they accepted the One country two system deal. And Mainland china is also at fault for being heavy handed towards the protestors, which did not de-escalate the situation but made it worse. I know sovereignty and integrity is important for a  nation, but it cannot be imposed like they are presently doing it in Hong Kong. It's Island which became prosperous due to the freedom and liberty that was guaranteed, now it is danger to go back to it's initial days. I would also like to hear your opinion on this issue, since I am an outsider and I am bias for liberal democracy,  and also you might know the situation better than me

Spoiler

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

No, I meant that the leader of the opposition right now in Canada is the leader of the Conservative party - and he's white. The Indian-Canadian politician I mentioned earlier, Jagmeet Singh, is the leader of our third major party.

Oh, my bad. He was quite active during Canadian elections, so I sort of thought that he was leader of opposition. Lot people here were betting that we would win for Prime Ministerial race. Like they were backing Kamala Harris and Tulsi Gabbard from USA. Lol, sometimes I feel like we are more interested of Indians in other countries than the ones living in India, what a sorry state of affairs we(Indians) are in

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

And the posture and camera angle were like Fatal Intuition  

Yeah, it almost felt like they have used the same footage from Fatal Intuition movie and changed the dialogue

4 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, I figured...why not offer up a glimpse into some of those musical-drama pairings? I don't have the time to do it right away, but I will come back to this in a future post - so stay tuned!  

Oh, interesting. So, does it mean that characters from Europe in your Fan-Fiction are

from Musical-drama?(Like in Naeil's Cantabile)

Spoiler

By the way @kittyna  I meant to ask you, did you recommend me the TV shows like "Little Mosque on the Prairie' because you thought I was "Muslim"(Not like there was nothing wrong in it, I am enjoying the show, it is informative and funny at the same time, so thank you ). I mean no decision is taken in isolation, it does require some kind of information to make one. So I thought maybe,Have given you the impression that I belong to a particular community? As far as I remember, I tried to be neutral and if not I was using the words like "Amen, Jesus, God". So I was expecting that I might be mistaken for Christian(not that there is anything wrong in it) 

 

[kittyna]

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

By the way @kittyna  I meant to ask you, did you recommend me the TV shows like "Little Mosque on the Prairie' because you thought I was "Muslim"(Not like there was nothing wrong in it, I am enjoying the show, it is informative and funny at the same time, so thank you

 

No - that was purely because you mentioned liking some Canadian TV shows, so I thought I'd recommend one that I watched some episodes from and enjoyed. That's all  

 

Spoiler

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Not only western, there is actually counter influence also, like I have read an article where Japanese people were sort of following Mexican culture, like the outfits and the way the decorate cars, for example- Like low-riders. So I guess as long as they are sincere and know the essence of the culture it's okay to do that. But just doing it for the sake of photos and to brag on social media is somewhat problematic. Like there are lot of westerners who would like to mimic Hindu culture, but clearly don't know the essence behind few rituals.

 

For me, personally (and this really is just personal opinion - I can't speak for anyone else), I think that if you want to adopt something from another culture, you need to 1) actually be interested in learning about that practice so you could do so respectfully, and 2) acknowledge your source. What ends up really controversial here, for instance, is that styles that are associated with marginalized communities (e.g. braided hairstyles worn by black girls) are somehow seen as strange or undesirable (re: those hairstyles, they may be called "ghetto", "unprofessional", etc.) but when someone from the majority does the exact same thing, all of a sudden it's cool and edgy and new fashion, etc.

 

Of course I know that no one culture owns any style exclusively and coincidences do happen (so, for instance, I disagree with people who argue that braids in general originated in black communities - they're pretty darn universal), but if it's something that you know is clearly associated with a culture that's different from yours, then at least say so in your Instagram post.

 

And, for the love of God, if this is something that is sacred to the original culture, then just don't. That's where many young North American kids go wrong, because they start wearing Native headdresses to music festivals or because they think it looks bohemian or hipster - but those are actually sacred to the Native cultures who use them and can only be worn by community leaders of a particular rank/social standing/etc.

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Oh, I kind of was aware that you might be more inclined towards main land china, that's I was sort of afraid I might say something offensive while describing about "Cultural revolution and Hong Kong issues(Like one party two system issue and about being different from main land china)". Hope I did not say something which I might have made you feel offensive.

 

I'm not offended - I identify myself as Chinese, but that is separate from political or national identity. So I'm okay with looking at both mainland China and Hong Kong with a critical lens. However, that being said, that's not necessarily something I want to discuss on this forum per se - there's such a large Hallyu fandom in both mainland Chinese and Hong Konger circles that I can't guarantee I won't step on someone's toes. So just know that I have my own stance on the issue, I don't mind if someone else views it differently, and we'll leave it at that  

 

As for the Alice teaser, I didn't have a chance to watch it right away, but I have now  

 

Spoiler

8 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

It does mention about doppleganger, and last dialogue was "I will find her and protect her". So I guess he is convinced that she is his mom, but a mom with different future and past, sort of like a life of his mom if has not given birth to him. Like there was mention of changing past in order to change future topic in the teaser. Guess our theory is sort in the right direction. It's more in line of story of "Avengers: Endgame"

Actually, I understood the line about some people's future being their past as a reference to people who travel back in time and continue aging, living their lives, etc. in that past. But that's just my theory  

 

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Oh, interesting. So, does it mean that characters from Europe in your Fan-Fiction are

from Musical-drama?(Like in Naeil's Cantabile)

 

Not exactly...more like I listen to soundtracks from musical theatre shows, and sometimes a song will make me think back to a character from JW's dramas, or something from the plot. That creates a mental association that I subsequently use to help me get into the zone or into the character's head while planning or brainstorming for fic ideas.

 

Tell you what: I'll give you a chance to see for yourself how this works. I was just going to write up my own list, but I've decided to make it interactive.  

 

So, @kireeti2, give me eight significant characters (they don't have to be the main leads, but just people who get a decent amount of screentime) from any of JW's eight pre-existing dramas (obviously can't do this for Alice yet), and I'll find a song in my musical theatre playlist to match each of them. Maybe I'll already have a song-character link in my head or maybe you'll end up making me find one for this challenge. Either way, this should get some creative juices flowing and that's good for both of us  

[kireeti2]

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, @kireeti2, give me eight significant characters (they don't have to be the main leads, but just people who get a decent amount of screentime) from any of JW's eight pre-existing dramas (obviously can't do this for Alice yet), and I'll find a song in my musical theatre playlist to match each of them. Maybe I'll already have a song-character link in my head or maybe you'll end up making me find one for this challenge. Either way, this should get some creative juices flowing and that's good for both of us  

Sounds interesting, okay then here it goes:

Min Do-Hee(From Naeil's cantabile because I really find her cute)

Jung Da-yeon(From My sassy girl, same reason mentioned above)

Kim Won-Seok(From 7th grade civil servant, because he is sort of funny and serious at the same time)

Lee Chae Young(From Yong Pal, I thought of choosing Oh Na-Ra,but  I felt like she didn't had significant presence in the drama)

Chae Hong-Joo(From Bridal Mask, Her fierce and ambitious nature made choose her)

Hwang Tae-pil(I liked his arch in the series)

Koo Ja-Kyung(From King Of Baking)

Nam Joo Yeon(From Good Doctor, the head nurse)

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

I'm not offended - I identify myself as Chinese, but that is separate from political or national identity. So I'm okay with looking at both mainland China and Hong Kong with a critical lens. However, that being said, that's not necessarily something I want to discuss on this forum per se - there's such a large Hallyu fandom in both mainland Chinese and Hong Konger circles that I can't guarantee I won't step on someone's toes. So just know that I have my own stance on the issue, I don't mind if someone else views it differently, and we'll leave it at that  

Oh, I see. It's like walking on eggshells for you to discuss or give opinion on this topic. I understand, but I do have Idea of what your stance might be, after reading your responses and opinions. But, we'll leave it here

By the way @kittyna , Do you mind me asking what religion you follow? Based on our conversations we had, it mostly point that you might be following "Buddhism" or Chinese folk religion , but I cannot really call the following Chinese culture as equal as following a religion, can I?  Because of what I heard and read so far, Chinese culture is sort of influenced by Confucianism and it is mostly a way of life just like Hinduism. I thought you might be christian because Christianity is also predominate in East Asia, so if it's okay with you I would like to know, just out of curiosity and to avoid offending you in future conversation, if we had a discussion on it.

Spoiler

3 hours ago, kittyna said:

braided hairstyles worn by black girls) are somehow seen as strange or undesirable (re: those hairstyles, they may be called "ghetto", "unprofessional", etc.) but when someone from the majority does the exact same thing, all of a sudden it's cool and edgy and new fashion, etc.

Yeah, I hear that too. I read it somewhere that such kind of hairstyle is natural and cultural thing for African-American Women/Girls, and were discriminated for so long, even were rejected for jobs on these grounds. But, I guess it is now more acceptable because majority has appropriated it. Lol, they didn't even leave Yoga out of it. Satan knows what kind mumbo-jumbo benefits few western have attributed to Yoga, for instance they are using it for physical fitness and weight loss. It's mostly for mental peace , for stretching muscles and to maintain health blood pressure, if we do it with other exercises, also, Yoga itself is not panacea to all the health problems,  like there is proper science behind it. But few Spiritual Gurus and westerns have just made it as a path to salvation and also for  minting money 

 

[kittyna]

5 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Sounds interesting, okay then here it goes:

Min Do-Hee(From Naeil's cantabile because I really find her cute)

Jung Da-yeon(From My sassy girl, same reason mentioned above)

Kim Won-Seok(From 7th grade civil servant, because he is sort of funny and serious at the same time)

Lee Chae Young(From Yong Pal, I thought of choosing Oh Na-Ra,but  I felt like she didn't had significant presence in the drama)

Chae Hong-Joo(From Bridal Mask, Her fierce and ambitious nature made choose her)

Hwang Tae-pil(I liked his arch in the series)

Koo Ja-Kyung(From King Of Baking)

Nam Joo Yeon(From Good Doctor, the head nurse)

 

Well, you certainly don't make things easy, do you?

 

I will have to go back and refresh my memory of some of these characters first, but I'll see what I can do.  

 

In the meantime, loving this little tribute to the second Alice teaser.

 

Also, a quick feature list to tide everyone over until that big one (dang, @kireeti2, I thought you were going to throw the leads at me, but nope!). Since we see JW playing his teenage self in Alice, that made me wonder: what sort of student might JW's drama characters have been like in high school? Or, if high school wasn't a thing, then what might they have been like as teenagers?

 

Nothing fancy - just a quick rapid-fire list. So here goes!

 

Gu Ma Jun

• The quiet one in the corner who carries himself like he's somehow better than or above the "boring stuff" in class
• Still manages to ace his courses anyway  (under that prickly exterior, there is a diligent and hardworking person in there) 
• Doesn't have much of a social life or friendship circle - tries to tell himself he likes it better that way when, really, he craves the company

Hwang Tae Hui

• Quiet and unassuming; he tends to stay out of trouble and just focus on getting his own work done
• The one who constantly gets compared with his brothers by his teachers - usually ends up being seen as the "better" one
• Does well in academics, but really truly excels in athletics, with most of his socialization happening on the sports field or basketball court

Lee Kang To

• Didn't go to high school in order to work to support his family, but able to keep up with his peers by studying on his own (with some tutoring from Kimura Shunji, eventually )
• Despite being highly intelligent, tends to question the actual usefulness of the stuff that's taught at school - has no patience for theoretical concepts that won't teach any practical life skills
• Starts off as one of the popular boys in his neighbourhood, but eventually becomes bullied due to his switching sides towards the Japanese - learns to fight both to pass the police exam and simply to defend himself

Han Gil Ro

• Something of a class clown: always fidgeting, asking stupidly random questions in class, etc.
• Has a very colourful social life, courtesy of his easygoing talkative nature, his good looks, and his family's wealth - however, he struggles with telling the difference between real and fake friends (he tends to just accept them all)
• Argues with his parents on a regular basis about what he should do in life (university, career, etc.) - tends to end up sulking in his room when things don't go his way

Park Si On

• Prone to being picked on and bullied by his classmates, so tends to stick to himself
• Spends almost all his free time in the library: studying, reading for fun, using the computers, etc.
• As a result of his high intelligence, he is generally loved by his teachers

Cha Yoo Jin

• Attends a performing arts high school (like JW), but with a specialization in music rather than drama
• Diligent and something of a nerd; tends to spend his free time either studying or practicing
• Natural charisma means that he tends to be voted class president - however, despite fulfilling his responsibilities well, he has few friends who could help with all the stuff he's dealing with at home (e.g. his trauma, his parents' divorce, etc.)

Kim Tae Hyun

• Not a rebel per se, but still tends to push back against rules that he thinks doesn't make sense
• Prefers to go home right after school and do his studying there rather than in the study hall or library - this is to be able to babysit So Hyun until their mom gets home from work
• Naturally open, friendly, and easygoing, but also very good at reading other people (i.e. distinguishing between pity - which he rejects - and true friendship)

Gyun Woo

• Doesn't attend a modern high school (obviously!) but spends a good chunk of his teenage years at the Sungkyunkwan preparing for the civil service exams
• Has a small, tight-knit group of friends, but much prefers to spend his time studying on his own
• Is something of a bully despite his goodhearted nature - he's so outspoken about his own morals/ethics that it drives most people other than his friends absolutely nuts

 

And, @kireeti2, re: your question about religion, I'm Christian (Protestant), but in a way that's probably rather unusual. Long story short: I hold to the beliefs myself, but rejected the church as an institution years ago (again, you know that I tend to look more critically at the groups I'm in rather than the ones I'm not).

[kireeti2]

56 minutes ago, kittyna said:

: what sort of student might JW's drama characters have been like in high school? Or, if high school wasn't a thing, then what might they have been like as teenagers?

Here's my take about Joo won's character as high school kids

56 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Gu Ma Jun

I think Gu ma Jun will be the popular guy in his class, since he is heir to a successful baking company and usually teenage kids to tend to create their own hierarchy groups, So, I guess Gu Ma Jun will enjoy these attentions from other kids to fill the voids he has about; his worth in the family, since he always tend to be insecure about his Half-brother and feels like he i being treated like child by his over protective mother and not getting enough love from father

59 minutes ago, kittyna said:

Hwang Tae Hui

I think he might have fewer friends, but due to his hot-head I am pretty sure he would have got into lot of fights, not like serious ones, but just below the threshold where teachers will getting him off the hook since he was such a brilliant kid back in school. Most of those fights would be because of his younger brother, but it is debatable if he had fights for his brother or with him

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Lee Kang To

I think that switching of side with Japanese came after seeing his brother went mad due to torture in prison. So assuming that his brother was still in University and Lee Kang To is doing part-time work and attending night school, he would still participate in nationalistic events and protests

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Han Gil Ro

I would beg to differ that he would be clown of the class. Since he has high social skills, he would be popular kid in the class or whole school. I think in academics he might fall behind but do well enough to pass, and would be participate in lot of extracurricular activities and in sports not to win but to enjoy with friends

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Park Si On

I do agree that Si-on will have stuff life during high school years. Since kids are not nice when they are in high school and are not very accommodating towards the kids who are need special care. But, I am sure he will find allies in the form of teacher(Biology) or with school nurse. Since he is really good at medical terms, I betting he would be best friend with school nurse

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Cha Yoo Jin

I actually think he will be the one with no friends, since he draws inspiration from his father, who left his wife for the sake of excelling in music, I am pretty sure he'll also follow in his foot steps. But he would be popular with girls

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Kim Tae Hyun

I think he will spend more time in school than at home, since in the show it was shown that his father comes home without notice and he hates the sight of his father,  and I think he would burn his midnight oil in the library to become doctor as soon as possible. Also, he might be doing part-time to support his family, so he would be spending time at convenient store as an employee

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Gyun Woo

I don't agree that he will be a bully, but he will talk-down to his  peers since he is some kind prodigy and I am sure he will just mind his own business

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

And, @kireeti2, re: your question about religion, I'm Christian (Protestant), but in a way that's probably rather unusual. Long story short: I hold to the beliefs myself, but rejected the church as an institution years ago (again, you know that I tend to look more critically at the groups I'm in rather than the ones I'm not).

Yeah- if I had to go to the church every Sunday I would have done the same thing(Jokes apart I think church as an institution did a lot of good things for  the advancement of western civilization, acted a place where people can meet as a community and share their problems with each other. And also it use to be an institution which first started to teach kids who cannot afford private tutors in medieval times, and also Galileo and Copernicus wrote they discoveries in this very institution(they were catholic churches, surprisingly they were not hostile towards science in the beginning, but once the protestant church started denouncing science and people started to flock towards them, the catholic churches have taken the lead and took it as a challenge and started denouncing science and also it was one of the reason why Galileo ended up as a prisoner of church)

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

Well, you certainly don't make things easy, do you?

 

I will have to go back and refresh my memory of some of these characters first, but I'll see what I can do.  

But.but..you said I could choose anyone. Jeez, next I will try to read between the lines and choose what you like

 

1 hour ago, kittyna said:

dang, @kireeti2, I thought you were going to throw the leads at me, but nope!

You said something about "Creative Juice and stuff", so I thought I will help you with that.

[kittyna]

55 minutes ago, kireeti2 said:

But.but..you said I could choose anyone. Jeez, next I will try to read between the lines and choose what you like

 

No worries - I'm teasing  I just need time to think/brainstorm before presenting it as a neat little package.

 

As for your takes on JW's characters as teenagers/high school kids...it's interesting how different our ideas were  

 

First of all: I really I love your bit about Park Si On being friends with the school nurse - if the muse strikes someday in the future, may I steal that?  

 

Moving on to some others (sorry, adding this after the fact, so can't quote properly):

 

For Hwang Tae Hui, in answer to your question about fights with Tae Pil...I think it would be him against Tae Pil in private, but the second someone tries to give Tae Pil a rough time, Tae Hui turns into his biggest defender. It's the whole, "I'm the only one who's allowed to pick on my brother" kind of deal. And if the whole mess started because Tae Pil did something he shouldn't (which would be most of the time), Tae Hui would defend him in public before whooping him in private. 

 

For Cha Yoo Jin, I agree that he wouldn't have friends (other people might like him, but he's not opening himself up anytime soon). The one exception, at least in the context of my fics, is Chae Do Kyung - who I imagine was one of his classmates and she mentions they've been friends for ten years by the time we get to Nae Il's Cantabile. But I don't necessarily think he is so closed off because he's like his father, though - more like he knows he isn't like his father, but he's trying hard to act like his father in order to appease him.

 

Also, for Kim Tae Hyun, I remember doing some research on this when I started writing Yong Pal fics, and it turned out that legally, high school students couldn't work unless they had written permission from their parents. And since I personally imagine Tae Hyun's mom to be the whole "Don't worry about money; just focus on your studies" sort of parent...I doubt that he'd have an official part-time job until he's in university. Which, as you imagine, frustrates him to no end, but that's life.

 

And maybe my referring to Gyun Woo as a "bully" was poorly expressed. I meant, like, the kid who would hold himself and his peers to such a high standard that he could end up really obnoxious and patronizing without meaning to.

[kittyna]

So, Soompi decided to be a pain in the butt and didn't save my progress on the long post I was working on (and I was literally halfway through it, too).  

 

That being said, here I am with Take Two of my attempt at this Musical + Drama Character Associations challenge. Wish me luck!

 

Before I begin, I do want to offer up a few disclaimers:

1. There's no way I could realistically encompass all of one character (even minor supporting ones) in any of these entries. So what I did was think of what side/aspect of the character or their story I wanted to focus on, then found a song to match. Nothing serious - just going with my gut.
2. I listen to musicals a lot, but my actual scope is pretty limited. So, to give myself more options to work with, I'm also including things like Disney musicals (i.e. stage musicals based on Disney movies) in the mix. Also, I do end up repeating some shows along the way.

That being said, here goes!

 

Spoiler

1. Choi Min Hee (From Nae Il's Cantabile)

 

Song: "Look Down" from Les Miserables

 

 

I have to admit that finding one for Choi Min Hee individually was tough: in my playlist at least, it's hard to find songs by female characters that are neither 1) linked to romance in some way, or 2) big ambitious "I want" style anthems - and those two things...don't really seem to fit Min Hee that well. Like, she's spunky and sassy and certainly won't let anyone push her around, but she's not really much of a dreamer, either. So instead, I'm going outside of the box a little by choosing a song with a part that's not so much a reflection of Min Hee's thoughts, but her overall perspective and role in the story. In this song here, my focus is on Gavroche (the young boy who carries most of it) - like Min Hee, he's more an observer from within the supporting ensemble than a lead character, but he's no fool and his biting almost sarcastic commentary matches a lot of Min Hee's similar aside comments in Nae Il's Cantabile.

 

By the way, a quick note: while I had to find something specific for Min Hee this time, I actually did have something already lined up for the S Orchestra as a whole - the scrappy underdogs who are perfectly content to just enjoy life as it is and who think the elite A's are definitely missing out.  

 

2. Jung Da Yeon (From My Sassy Girl)

 

Song: "Killer Instinct" from Bring It On

 

 

Full disclosure: I actually don't know this musical, so I can't vouch for its story or anything. But my collection of antagonists' songs is pretty darn lacking, and nothing I had quite matched Jung Da Yeon's combination of "sweet on the outside, manipulative on the inside". So, I turned to Google, and ultimately found this. And you know what? With just the lyrics by themselves, it actually works. Like, on the one hand, Da Yeon carries herself as someone who's really poised and demure (although I will admit, @kireeti2, that "cute" caught me by surprise); but on the other hand, she knows what she wants and she won't hesitate to use underhanded measures to get it.

 

So, congratulations: you made me discover something new.  

 

3. Kim Won Seok (From Level 7 Civil Servant)

 

Song: "History has its Eyes on You" from Hamilton

 

 

 

I know the suggestion was originally because of his funnier/quirkier side, but I'm focusing on the side of him that stood out to me the most as a viewer: the way he acts as a leader/mentor to these young rookie agents, some of whom (like Han Gil Ro) have a very romanticized idea of what being in the NIS is actually like. Kim Won Seok's the veteran who's seen it all, and he knows the real cost of being an NIS agent: the constant risk of losing one's friends/colleagues, and the huge negative impact the need for secrecy places on personal relationships (because he can never be fully himself with his family, his marriage is falling apart, his kids barely know him, etc.). So here, I imagine him giving someone like Han Gil Ro a word of advice: you have to take this job seriously, or it'll come back to bite you.

 

4. Lee Chae Young (From Yong Pal)

 

Song: "Satisfied" from Hamilton (again - it's one of my favourites)

 

 

Out of all eight characters suggested, Lee Chae Young's the only one for whom I already had something in advance.  Like the character in this song, Lee Chae Young is an upper-class woman with limited options (her main purpose in life is, like in the song, to marry rich and boost her father's status). So she always finds herself craving something more, and she gets that chance when she meets Kim Tae Hyun: a guy far beneath her in the social ladder that she's attracted to due to his good looks, his intelligence, and his equally strong will. However, Chae Young has to deal with the fact that Han Yeo Jin also loves Tae Hyun (and vice-versa), and I think this song captures some of her struggle between wanting him to be happy...and wanting him for herself.

 

5. Chae Hong Joo/Ueno Rie (From Gaksital)

 

Song: "Goodnight and Thank You" from Evita

 

 

 

So, this was one case where there were so many different ways I could take this that I was rather overwhelmed. But since you mentioned Chae Hong Joo's "fierce and ambitious" side, I decided to go along with it. In this scene, we see a woman (Evita) who uses her strong wit, skills at flirtation, and celebrity status to her advantage: social climbing over a series of love affairs with increasingly powerful men. However, underneath the surface, Evita is nowhere near as confident as she looks: on a subconscious level, she's trying to escape from her more marginalized/lower-class background. We get the same duality in how Chae Hong Joo tries to find acceptance by reinventing herself as Ueno Rie.

 

6. Hwang Tae Pil (From Ojakgyo Brothers)

 

Song: "Proud of Your Boy" from Aladdin

 

 

Like with Chae Hong Joo, there were so many different directions I could have taken this - do I want to look at Tae Pil's carefree view on life, his sideline con artist act, or his relationship with his brothers or the woman he loves? Ultimately, I settled for none of these  Instead, I chose this song because I think it can easily be Tae Pil saying/thinking this to his parents, especially his mother: promising to finally grow up and start acting like the adult he is.

 

7. Gu Ja Kyung (From King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu)

 

Song: "Speechless" from Aladdin (the live action film version)

 

 

Using a film rather than a stage musical might be stretching things a bit, but I honestly think this song is perfect for Gu Ja Kyung. She's perfectly capable of heading up the company as its next CEO, but in the time that she's in, that's next to impossible simply because she's a girl. If she had no brothers, that's one thing, but she does, so she's expected to just stand back and let Ma Jun (her mother's pick) or Tak Gu (her father's pick) take charge instead. But, yeah, Ja Kyung's not having that, and I love that her brothers both decide to let her take control at the end of the drama. She really was the best candidate for the job  

 

8. Nam Joo Yeon (From Good Doctor)

 

Song: "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better" from Annie, Get Your Gun

 

 

 

This one's just a little bit of silly fun - because, to be honest, I actually know far more about the nurse characters in Yong Pal than Good Doctor  But that being said, I do remember the cute bickering friendship-turned-something-more between Nurse Nam and Nurse Jo, and this song does capture some of that same vibe. Also, another similarity here is that in both cases - this song and the nursing team in Good Doctor - the girl has the better comebacks  

 

And...done! Is it perfect? No. But it was fun to see where I could go with this, so thanks for the rather out-of-the-box suggestions, @kireeti2. You certainly kept me on my toes throughout this whole process  

 

Maybe someday I'll come back and do a second list based around some of the leads. What do you guys think: should I?

[kireeti2]

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

No worries - I'm teasing  I just need time to think/brainstorm before presenting it as a neat little package.

I know that I was also teasing you What's the funny in picking what you like?(I find your choices often  boring as hell)

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

First of all: I really I love your bit about Park Si On being friends with the school nurse - if the muse strikes someday in the future, may I steal that?  

Oh please, use everything that you might find useful from my comments, if it helps your fan fictions

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

And since I personally imagine Tae Hyun's mom to be the whole "Don't worry about money; just focus on your studies" sort of parent...I doubt that he'd have an official part-time job until he's in university. Which, as you imagine, frustrates him to no end, but that's life.

He is Yong Pal, he doesn't require any permission, not even from his mom. So I think his choice for doing home-calls for Gang members is not some thing he choose out of impulse. I do think i was an incremental changes like, working as part-timer(lot of people would like to hire such kind of kids so that they can pay below minimum wages) without his mothers permission to help with the medical supplies for his little sister or to buy nice things for her, since his father is of no use and I personally don't think we would look after his little sister. So I think such kind of childhood made him choose do illegal things to make money quickly

 

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

Tae Hui would defend him in public before whooping him in private

What I meant was, sort of out-burst, which he had with his elder brother when he leaked the story about his case. Like grabbing a fellow student collar is seen as an violent act and teachers will punish him for that. I think we will have plenty of such impulsive moments with his younger brother

 

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

And maybe my referring to Gyun Woo as a "bully" was poorly expressed. I meant, like, the kid who would hold himself and his peers to such a high standard that he could end up really obnoxious and patronizing without meaning to.

Oh, thanks for elaborating. I thought by 'bully' you meant,  a smart kid you looks down on his peers just because they got less marks or knows less than him

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

And...done! Is it perfect? No. But it was fun to see where I could go with this, so thanks for the rather out-of-the-box suggestions, @kireeti2. You certainly kept me on my toes throughout this whole process  

Wow, it's perfect. I take my word back that your choices are boring, after this I think your choices are not so boring after all. And now I understand what did you mean by earlier, like drama character and musical character connection

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

7. Gu Ja Kyung (From King of Baking, Kim Tak Gu)

 

Song: "Speechless" from Aladdin (the live action film version)

This is my favorite, like her situation is like princess in Aladdin, where her father thinks that she is only born to be married off to a prince and not fit to rule the kingdom.

 

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

8. Nam Joo Yeon (From Good Doctor)

 

Song: "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better" from Annie, Get Your Gun

I personally found their relationship as a complementary to each other. Of course she does out rank him in terms of hierarchy, but it did not stop him from defying her. And I too find their bickering as some sort of rivalry

10 hours ago, kittyna said:

although I will admit, @kireeti2, that "cute" caught me by surprise

May I ask why? I think he had better chemistry with joo won than oh yeon-seo both in on screen and off screen

 

 

@kittyna I hope I did not stained you much .  All this looks good and exciting to read, but doesn't looked like an easy job, like you had to find the right musical character for the drama character with similar personality

Maybe, I should have at least choose few main characters, that would have been easy on you, now I feel bad. Sorry

Another possible theory of Joo won's character in Alice drama

Spoiler

@kittyna Now that you mentioned of Si-on, it got me thinking that the character played by joo won in Alice, will sort of a special needs person, not like Autistic, but few kids are slow learners and has hard time to grow mental ability like their peers(like they sometimes finis their high school  in their 20s), but eventually they will  catch-up, but if such kind of child belongs to low income group then it can be herculean task for both kid and for parents to overcome this shortcoming, and  it is more difficult for single parent. That might be  the reason why the director choose joo won to play his teenage character rather than using a child actor.

 

[kittyna]

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

He is Yong Pal, he doesn't require any permission, not even from his mom. So I think his choice for doing home-calls for Gang members is not some thing he choose out of impulse. I do think i was an incremental changes like, working as part-timer(lot of people would like to hire such kind of kids so that they can pay below minimum wages) without his mothers permission to help with the medical supplies for his little sister or to buy nice things for her, since his father is of no use and I personally don't think we would look after his little sister. So I think such kind of childhood made him choose do illegal things to make money quickly

 

That's one of the things I find so fascinating about Tae Hyun: his character is so complex that there are a number of different possible backstories for him. I have my own which is different from yours, but I can also see yours working as well  

 

By the way, the fic I just linked was my first attempt at a backstory for Tae Hyun at all: things in my head have changed in some ways since then, but the overall arc is still the same (including the not-so-nice parts, I'm afraid).

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

What I meant was, sort of out-burst, which he had with his elder brother when he leaked the story about his case. Like grabbing a fellow student collar is seen as an violent act and teachers will punish him for that. I think we will have plenty of such impulsive moments with his younger brother

 

Ah...yeah, I can see that happening. We also know that Tae Pil ran away from home once in his teens and Tae Hui was the one to find him and bring him back - probably with a good deal of scolding and arguing along the way. 

 

It's a good thing that Tae Sik and Tae Beom are older so the four brothers were never at the same school at the same time...that would have been chaos. 

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I personally found their relationship as a complementary to each other. Of course she does out rank him in terms of hierarchy, but it did not stop him from defying her. And I too find their bickering as some sort of rivalry

 

Actually, the whole pediatric surgery team is pretty chill about the hierarchy - there is one, but they don't, like, pull rank on each other or start drama because of it.  So, like you, I love how Nurse Nam and Nurse Jo usually interact like equals.

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

May I ask why? I think he had better chemistry with joo won than oh yeon-seo both in on screen and off screen

 

With the actress (Kim Yoon Hye) is one thing, but Jung Da Yeon as a character...she's pretty messed up. I mean, if I delved more into her character, I can consider things like her situation and how she was brought up (i.e. she is the way she is because her father actively encouraged this behaviour), and I'll also concede that her feelings for Gyun Woo are genuine. But she's also the classic Queen Bee/female bully character (of the passive aggressive type according to the link), and her duplicity is really off-putting for me. Mostly because that sort of teenage girl drama that we see in My Sassy Girl (the gossip, the fair weather friendships, etc.) are bitingly realistic.

 

9 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

I hope I did not stained you much .  All this looks good and exciting to read, but doesn't looked like an easy job, like you had to find the right musical character for the drama character with similar personality

Maybe, I should have at least choose few main characters, that would have been easy on you, now I feel bad. Sorry

 

No worries! It was actually a lot of fun

 

My original idea was to limit the challenge to first and second male and female leads, but then I realized that not all of JW's dramas actually follow that character structure. Nae Il's Cantabile and Ojakgyo Brothers are more ensemble casts, and I didn't want to rule out any of the four Hwang brothers or all the Rising Star Orchestra kids. So I broadened my terms and wound up with...well, what you suggested  

 

So, given that, let's do a Round Two: please select eight characters from JW's dramas that fit at least one of these categories

• First male/female leads
• Second male/female leads (except for the three second female leads already covered above, obviously)
• The families of the first male/female leads
• The Nae Il's Cantabile ensemble cast: i.e. the Haneum student body and faculty as a whole

 

[kireeti2]

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

So, given that, let's do a Round Two: please select eight characters from JW's dramas that fit at least one of these categories

• First male/female leads
• Second male/female leads (except for the three second female leads already covered above, obviously)
• The families of the first male/female leads
• The Nae Il's Cantabile ensemble cast: i.e. the Haneum student body and faculty as a whole

• Ku Ma Jun(Actually he comes under second lead category and I really want to know what can of musical character is there for this character)
• Hwang Tae -sik( I really think this character as more arch and ups-and-downs in life than any other character in the drama)
• Jin Se-yun(For her stubborn nature, obviously. Is it going to be song from "Brave" Disney movie?)
• Kim Seo-won(Just because she fits the criteria)
• Cha Yoon-seo(I find her character different from other female leads, like she doesn't try to show her femininity in the show, through  her dressing sense, appearance and make-up, but it sort of comes naturally to her . I find such kind of characters' affections more genuine)
• Ahn Gu Sung(Naeil's teacher, I wonder if he qualifies with the above categories, let me know if he doesn't, I will choose another one)
• Han Yeo-jin(Yong Pal)
• Princess Hyemyung

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

It's a good thing that Tae Sik and Tae Beom are older so the four brothers were never at the same school at the same time...that would have been chaos. 

Yeah- the whole school will become upside-down with their infighting and their fight with other kids

 

16 hours ago, kittyna said:

I have my own which is different from yours, but I can also see yours working as well  

While reading the fan fiction, I came to know that his mom blamed "Asian Financial crisis" for their current destitute situation. I have observed that they use this crisis in many dramas to link it with female/males leads poor condition. I knew it caused a economic havoc in East and South-East Asia, but I never knew things were such so bad that it has become a Pop reference

 

[kittyna]

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

• Ku Ma Jun(Actually he comes under second lead category and I really want to know what can of musical character is there for this character)
• Hwang Tae -sik( I really think this character as more arch and ups-and-downs in life than any other character in the drama)
• Jin Se-yun(For her stubborn nature, obviously. Is it going to be song from "Brave" Disney movie?)
• Kim Seo-won(Just because she fits the criteria)
• Cha Yoon-seo(I find her character different from other female leads, like she doesn't try to show her femininity in the show, through  her dressing sense, appearance and make-up, but it sort of comes naturally to her . I find such kind of character's affections more genuine)
• Ahn Gu Sung(Naeil's teacher, I wonder if he qualifies with the above categories, let me know if he doesn't, I will choose another one)
• Han Yeo-jin(Yong Pal)
• Princess Hyemyung

 

Ooh...that's very interesting. Again: give me some time to think/brainstorm, but I'll get back to you on these.

 

And don't worry about including Professor Ahn - I did say any of Haneum's faculty were fair game, after all  

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Yeah- the whole school will become upside-down with their infighting and their fight with other kids

 

Actually, I think it would have been toughest for Tae Pil, at least in terms of his studies: since he and Tae Hui are just one year apart, I can imagine just how many of his teachers would compare them, like, "Well, last year, your hyung was like..." You get the idea. No wonder the kid's so frustrated  

 

And I also imagine a scenario where, say, little Tae Sik's being picked on by someone (because I honestly think he's the sort who'd end up a magnet for bullies), but then little Tae Beom (they're close enough in age to be in the same school) would just rush in to defend his hyung.

 

3 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

While reading the fan fiction, I came to know that his mom blamed "Asian Financial crisis" for their current destitute situation. I have observed that they use this crisis in many dramas to link it with female/males leads poor condition. I knew it caused a economic havoc in East and South-East Asia, but I never knew things were such so bad that it has become a Pop reference

 

 To be honest, the whole IMF explanation was from my own imagination - I don't know what cause (if any) was officially intended for Tae Hyun's family's situation in Yong Pal. And I don't know much about economics or finance, so I can't really speak to just how bad it was, but I saw references to mass layoffs, the working poor becoming even poorer, etc. in the things I read, so I just went with it.

 

Finally, re: Alice

 

Spoiler

14 hours ago, kireeti2 said:

Now that you mentioned of Si-on, it got me thinking that the character played by joo won in Alice, will sort of a special needs person, not like Autistic, but few kids are slow learners and has hard time to grow mental ability like their peers(like they sometimes finis their high school  in their 20s), but eventually they will  catch-up, but if such kind of child belongs to low income group then it can be herculean task for both kid and for parents to overcome this shortcoming, and  it is more difficult for single parent. That might be  the reason why the director choose joo won to play his teenage character rather than using a child actor.

 

I don't think so, personally. But I do think there is something that's atypical about JW's character - what exactly, though, we'll have to wait and see.