[Drama 2012] Faith 신의

[CharismaDoll]

anace said: So, that's why GC wants to go to the heaven... that kind of plastic surgery hmmmmm and return to be a queen?
I think Noodle will be happy =)) =)) =)) ROFL

http://dcimg1.dcinside.com/viewimage.php?id=greatdoctor&no=29bcc427b68277a16fb3dab004c86b6f6b0b0f26ed5ca8b61ef579f6b1a5875a2f16bdf87941b56fc13c5a88277b13d9b9112af7d765da40f6ad4f3b88c1ef9efbc2dff72fc7&f_no=0490f719b58668ff2095e692 
Credit: DC

[Guest lililovelilica]

anne said: I read an excellent post on timeline branching & thought you all might be interested...

Written by Kim Yoonmi
http://www.dramabeans.com/2012/10/faith-episode-20/#comments

The thing is that the drama so far is predisposing a branching timeline theory. I’m pretty sure people are going to be uber upset at the end when they find that it is a branching timeline theory, because:

There are no paradoxes in a branching timeline theory

You think it’s a time loop, but at two points already we know that it *has* to be a branching timeline.

1. The Trap

She said that the trap *happened* and that Choi Young *died* according to the diary.

If he wasn’t there, he wouldn’t have *died*. As in Future Eun Soo’s timeline Choi Young was dead.

As in it happened, and he was gone, dead, and buried.

But nothing happened to the current timeline, the fabric of time didn’t collapse.

Event 2: What happened in *this* episode.

This new Eun Soo of the future supposedly *already* went to the future, got some film canister, and went to the past of current Eun Soo.

She said that it already happened that Noguk *died*, the King fell apart and Choi Young ended up (in summary) sad and blaming her, never to smile at her again. That she ran in fear.

As in *that* happened.

Clue 3: I submit to the jury what is known as Il Mare.

Used a branching timeline and broke people’s heads over trying to figure it out. Also all those radio-themed movies.

So then, how does a branching timeline work?

Part A:
At any given point a person is given CHOICES.

So, I’m choosing to type right now. Could I be doing something like traveling the world (far fetched choice) or I could be doing something like taking a shower (less far fetched choice)

Part B: The potential to choose those choices creates dimensions of parallel existence *when not chosen* but in time travel can coexist.

So, the fact I’m typing to you now means that the choice to take a shower has vanished, but it’s now in a parallel dimension.

Part C: Time travel only travels along the path of choices and going back in time *erases* those choices thus any point in time can be rewritten for *change*.

Thus, if Eun Soo goes further back than current Eun Soo, she still can *not* exist, but it would be in a different parallel dimension.

So the fact that future Eun Soo rewrote current Eun Soo’s present by staying here and the message *did not disappear* means that we are most likely on the *branching timeline* model. ’cause if it were the circular linear model, then the message, by tradition would disappear entirely from the timeline. But they are coexisting along with the diary.

This is so a branching timeline model. And I know people are going to go on and on about Paradoxes, but I’ve found that the *majority* of time travel done in Eastern Dramas do the branching model (which has no predestiny to it since it’s dependent on individual choices) rather than predestiny model of fate and no choices. (Which seems backwards, but yeah)

So the Eun Soo of the Future *is not* our Eun Soo and our Eun Soo will neither be Diary Eun Soo (as with the pot breaking and Choi Young dying) nor the Eun Soo who wrote the message in the Film Canister. (Because in that the Kingdom crumbled already and CHoi Young hated her, and this Choi Young doesn’t)

============================


The Branching Timeline for geeks fits into the string theory model, which is why it’s becoming popular…

Anyway, parallel dimensions of choices made is how this all works out. So you can have millions of Eun Soo, but what counts is *current* Eun Soo’s decisions, so she has volition and agency. It will not be fatalistic because current Eun Soo can make decisions on her own.

She *could* have run and went through the door but she didn’t.

Branching Timeline does run into the whole Dues Ex machina, however, the consequences outlined here are different. Eun Soo said that she wanted to see her family and friends from the future–she can’t go back and do that. She can’t go back and get medical supplies. She can’t jump whenever she wants to. If she screws up in her current choices, her future *as she knows it* is also screwed up (Which makes for a different Eun Soo jumping back). She could make Noguk end up living. Then her future as she knows it is something else. She could end up killing Choi Young before the legends are made. So she can *still* screw up. =P Find the magical thing that gives everyone powers and take that away.

The problem with the circular timeline besides being fatalistic is that there are no consequences for current action because you can just lay back and do absolutely nothing and it still will happen. No matter how you mess with it, the timeline will prevent you from doing anything, which means the character has absolutely no agency and there is no real consequence for the action.

You can think of the branching timeline like a tree or a bunch of railroad tracks where the track switches. So if she screws up and goes to the future, the future she sees will be different. because she’s on a different railroad track and the sum of choices is different.

Branching timeline model would also allow in some sense for two simultaneous versions of oneself to coexist as well. Because they aren’t the same person. The one in the future is the *potential* person that the other can become.

This might make it possible for her to save Choi Young (from his terrible History book fate) and save Queen Noguk, which is an interesting possibility. Then this would go from a time travel story to an alternate reality time travel story.

[churasan]

joykimlee said:

Thanks to Faithlings' KHS recommendations, am now watching Smile Again which oh wow is hot star studded with Lee Dong Gun, Lee Jin Wook and Yoon Se Ah!  Surprisingly KHS Smile Again character is similar to strong spunky ES in FAITH which seals my believe that KHS real life personality is just like ES.  Like some Faithlings here I too suspect LMH likes KHS as his type of girl and he's nearly fallen for her.  KHS is married but I still ship them cos their chemistry is simply irresistable.

[jerboa83]

azzurri said: Even though this doesn't mention anything about ES, but I found this really nice writeup on General Choi Young on this blog. It's awesome!
http://blog.tcyun.com/post/15823468196/choi-young

[awesomeduck]

@myphim - thanks for the gifs love that scene CY was adorable (the hand to the face so touching) - swooning like @vangsweetie637Leave the new little boy alone hahaha I like how you guys come up with theories when a new person appears...very creative minds@toychoi - I knew LMH and PMY were dating and thought they looked cute together. I thought people liked them because of CH I didn't know she was attacked - poor girl. I discovered PMY in I am Sam when she first started out (coincidentally LMH was also in there but only a minor role whereas PMY was the lead actress) and thought omg that girl is really pretty. I know she has had a lot of work done on the face but still she's really cute. 

[Guest livon123]

OMG, so many pages, wow about the branching theory, I like that idea. I would hope that different parallel universes exist, that mean there could be happy and sad CY and ES, but I am hoping we get the happy version. Through thin and thick they went through so much, if it was up to me to open the gates, CY&ES's love would make me open it.

[Guest lililovelilica]

Adnana said: I've been re-watching my favorite Imja moments, and I really dig this *particular* pattern I've seen developing between CY and ES:

(in episode 16, when ES is still sick from having been poisoned the first time)
ES: I want to talk to Gi Cheol.
CY: No.
Next thing we know: Gi Cheol is entertaining visitors at his estate: ES & CY. )

(in episode 17, when CY confronts ES about her engagement)
CY: Leave the palace with me.
ES: No.
Next thing we know: ES is still in the palace, and then CY returns as well.

(in episode 20)
ES: Let's go back to the King and Queen.
CY: No.
Next thing we know:
1) CY has turned back with ES to inquire in the nearest village about the King & Queen.
He says again: let's continue on our way.
2) ES: No. Do you want me to get angry? >
3) ES gets angry. And CY -- the fearless, unmatched warrior, whose mere name in battle strikes terror in the hearts of his enemies -- basically cowers in fear before the Gangnam princess' anger. He's speechless, completely outclassed and outmatched. :|
4) CY and ES are back in the capital.

(in episode 20)
Auntie Choi: CY, go see the king.
CY: No.
ES: CY, go see the king.
Next thing we know: CY is visiting the King.

(in episode 20)
ES: I want to see DHG.
CY: No.
Next thing we know: ES is visiting DHG.

(in episodes 19-20)
CY: I can't be the Woodalchi Daejang anymore.
ES: I've become a Woodalchi soldier and I'll stay in the Woodalchi Daejang's room.
CY: I'll be the Woodalchi Daejang again! B-)

The poor sucker never stood a chance, did he? =)) =)) =))

[Guest livon123]

haha, I love CY's love and protectiveness for ES. They both protect each other in their own ways, when they are together I feel the safest watching the series haha

[Guest prosperity]

Omo, I can barely keep up with this thread. It is moving so fast! Lots of laughs and newbies. Wow! I think it has a lot to do with the fact that we have great people, with a great sense of humor, reunited because of our love of Faith.
TBH this thread is almost as exciting as the show, and sometimes even more exciting.

[ahoxan]

jerboa83 said: azzurri said: Even though this doesn't mention anything about ES, but I found this really nice writeup on General Choi Young on this blog. It's awesome!
http://blog.tcyun.com/post/15823468196/choi-young

[awesomeduck]

@livon123 - just noticed your picture omg don't tell me you are a fan of millionaire's first love - one of my favourite movies!!! I cried soo much. @Anace - how could you I almost fell of my chair seeing that picture. 
Back to Faith: I've been thinking about the time travelling stuff again and trying to figure out how we can get a happy ending. My theory is that CY did not die the first or second time because ES managed to stop it with or without the diary note. I think ES would have saved him regardless and the note was just a reminder just in case. Think ES only travelled back once and that's the future ES we saw at the Episode 20 - she travelled back 100yrs this could be because she was not able to travel back at any other time (she's 33 and the door not opening again for another 67 years (33+67 = 100) hahaha - might have something to do with this but I can't figure it) I think ES must have ran away in episode 20 and because of the poison she had to go back to her world and upon going back she discovered that history was changed because CY gave up being a warrior. I don't know what happened to CY after she left (hoping the writer will tell us). I really don't think ES is hwata (hwata will be someone else). The tools did belong to ES because as she said they did not look old enough to be from 1000 years ago. And ES must have left the tools behind and made up the story that it was hwata's tools and items from 1000 years ago and somehow gave it to GC's master. So now that ES decides to not run away then history will happen as it is supposed to and hopefully ES was meant to be part of history as CY's wife. So the first time she ran away - history f* up and now if she stays history will be as it is supposed to be and there is no need for future ES anymore. Sorry if this is confusing lol....

[Guest lililovelilica]

Auntie Mame said: Anomalous said:
Adnana said: Sorry to interrupt the vivid pictures everyone here is painting re: the finer points of swordsmanship. :\"> (I humbly bow to your talent with (s)words... )
Just bear with me for a minute, 'cause I really needed to get this off my chest.

At the end of episode 14, CY admitted that if ES leaves Goryeo, he will NOT be all right. We already know that this guy loves to the point of obsession & self-destruction from what happened with Mae-hee, and Mae-hee was only his first love whereas Eun-soo is THE LOVE. His forever love. Anyways, back to what I was saying... CY was already gaga over ES in episode 14. And we all saw him going completely off the rails in episodes 15-16 when ES's life was in danger (gosh, the mere memory of CY pummeling DHG into the ground still makes me giddy with excitement :x ).
And since then, CY and ES have had all these innumerable moments of growing ever more closer, of confiding in each other and of making sacrifices for the well-being of the other. They've become each other's first priority and their trust in each other is absolute. And of course, there's also been all those touches and the leaning on each other and the hand-holding and the hugs and the KISS! 
Above all, I feel as if with each passing moment, ES has imprinted herself ever deeper onto CY's mind and soul. He's let her in completely, and now her beautiful spirit, her joy in life, her loyalty and her courage and indeed, everything about her, has become part of CY's very being. Forget her, like she asked him to, after she's gone? What a joke! As if he ever could, while he still draws breath!

She's not the only person he cares about in the world; in a different way (and to a much lesser extent) he cares about the King and the Queen and his Woodalchi etc. But I *know* that CY won't care about the world if ES is not a part of it anymore. If I had needed more proof of how utterly dependent on ES CY is now (I didn't), then that final scene in episode 20 provided it in droves: CY has only ever been a warrior, yet when he lost his mojo (as @icesiren said it so perfectly), it was only through ES that he could regain it. With ES by his side, he'll be invincible. Without her...

My words above are my argument that "Faith" has to have a HEA for ES & CY. Because otherwise, there wouldn't have been any shrine of the Great General Choi Young (which CY hasn't become yet by 1351) for ES to visit in modern Korea. CY can only become who and what he is supposed to be with ES by his side. You hear that writer-nim? Please be as awesome as you've been until know and stay true to your characters and to what they are!

[Guest livon123]

When I was thinking about it, I thought perhaps ES stayed instead of time traveling back. 1 month and 67 years might have a special meaning on its own. Perhaps if ES stayed for 67 years after she died in the past, she will wake up in the future time, and it only has been 1 month (although she lived a life time with CY), then she will meet the reincarnated CY in the future. OR if she went back to the future, it might be a sad ending, = where she time traveled her age 33 plus 67 years = 100 years to the past, where all the bad things happen and she is trying to prevent it. Or even she goes go back to the future, where later when she is old she will meet CY again (whether in heaven or a real life..) LOL, it is way out there but hey.

[Guest anace]

@prosperity that's right! just pure love for Faith :x :x :x

@awesomeduck yeah me too so i said to myself 'i have to share this!'

We are really excited our OTP is sharing a room together ... so here you have 2 alternatives of IMJA first night together in their couple room:

1. funny ) but c'mon!!... no action? [-(

2. i prefer this one :x :x :x ...aigoo my pervy mind X_X  =D>

Cred: DC

[Guest lililovelilica]

Adnana said: briseis said:

[...]

[flo_oni]

@anace. Nice pics. I'd have to go with #2 myself. Rawr.

#1 is cute too, but those #2 pics are just soooo hot!

Are you ready for tonight? *wiggles eyebrows*

[Guest anace]

@flo_oni I'm ready!  :\">   ... i can't help myself DC is giving me these ideas with some hot pics! O:-) > . Fortunately this ep is just delayed \m/

[Guest myphim]

flo_oni said: @anace. Nice pics. I'd have to go with #2 myself. Rawr.

#1 is cute too, but those #2 pics are just soooo hot!

Are you ready for tonight? *wiggles eyebrows*

[flo_oni]

@anace. I'm pretty sure you're right. I'm happy enough that they put them in one room. This is one plot device that will surely make us all happy. I hope the writers maximize it to the greatest benefit for ES and CY. For us too.

[Guest walkietalkie]

joykimlee said:

My drama addiction journey started as a child with 20th century TVB ...

...BUT in FAITH i love the process of falling in love and the project of being in love so i'm looking forward to a happy ending.