[drama 2008] Robbers 불한당

[Guest imogene_af]

chinggus...episode 4 wasn't quite as enjoyable for me as the first three episodes were. the story and character development seemed a bit weak in 4. i can only judge from how the episode seemed to flow from scene to scene, and what i can assume the characters are doing or saying in each scene...so my assessment maybe unfair. overall the episode seemed a little raw...a)some imperfect editing (nothing glaring...but i noticed it); b)some scenes that seemed cut and paste...if you were to rearrange them into any order...they would still give the same effect...which means the flow of the story seemed a little random at times...which leads to the possibility of... c)things (the story?) moving, but not necessarily forward...or even in one direction; and d)some instances where the acting was distracting...it's because this story is heavily character driven...so i rely a lot on the acting to understand the characters and be able to fall into the story. i'm trying to build a good sense of what these characters are like...they are three dimensional characters, yes...their motivations may take some time to develop, and that's fine...but their superficial behaviors, little quirks, simple reactions to common things...things like these should be somewhat consisitent.

this is only my first impression though...maybe it'll change/improve after i've rewatched the episode. that's another thing though...with the first three episodes...i couldn't wait to rewatch them over and over...with 4 however, i didn't find myself so eager. ^^;

some things that didn't sit well w/ me:

scene w/ Man Doo in the cafeteria: the whole time watching this scene i kept thinking it was very deliberate. he's in a cafeteria...yet no free napkins? he has to go buy tissue paper to clean his mess? he needs to use his wallet...so naturally, he sees the picture of him and Oh Joon that's in it. and that was the whole point of that scene...just so he can see the picture and start reminiscing. it just seemed needlessly elaborate...they could have showed him sitting there, wondering intently...then pull out his wallet to look at the picture. it would had the same effect. i would of preferred them include a flashback to their younger days...when that picture was taken...that would have been nice because they could have managed to flesh out a bit more of Man Doo's as well as Oh Joon's character...answer some of our questions about Oh Joon's past, or at least give us some new insights about his history.

gangpae boss + mil: nothing new about these two? come on! she's still mad at him? (and i'm not sure i understand why) and all he can do about it is...have his men follow him in the car while he walks ahead of them, moping about it? i know mr. gangpae boss has a soft inner core...but this is just silly. i hope the writer fleshes out this character a bit...he's a talented actor, he should be given something more to work with. i don't want him to be there just for comic relief...his gangpae minions have got that more than covered...although i found in this episode that their scenes were a bit much...also too silly.

Oh Joon's bad side: this scene was really hard for me to watch...the scene of him yelling at Yoon Ah(sp?). wow...how can you not hate Oh Joon after this scene? we know he's not a saint...so it shouldn't have been a surprise...but the reality of how cruel he is...his profression...really only dawned at me after this scene (i said that before about episode 3...but him running away from her was one thing...this scene he was just short of physically abusing her ). i guess this could be a reason why i didn't quite enjoy episode 4. this scene took place early on in the episode...the rest of the episode sees Oh Joon trying to work his tricks on Dal Rae. i guess it sorta pissed me off >_<...the whole time i'm thinking...'wow, you're going to do the same to this poor woman. you scoundrel! she's already lost a husband...and neither is she rich. you're going to take everything that she has...the worst of all being her heart?! she's going to fall apart...and those two people who depend on her for emotional support...they'll be suffering too!' TT_TT the majority of this episode had scenes of the two of them together...since this thought was in my mind the whole time...i guess that's why i didn't enjoy watching it.

i love Jang Hyuk the actor...and i think he's doing great job portraying Oh Joon (perhaps too great of a job ^^; but there's a problem with the character. what's his motivation? i want to know...so i can TRY to justify his actions. the writer really needs to clue us in on a bit of his history...why he is who he is now...give us something to go on that makes us think he is still redeamable...do it before it's too late. and another thing is...if he can bear to treat someone as vulnerable as Yoon Ah so cruely...what's going to make Dal Rae's situation any different? (it's only episode 4, but i'm already starting to feel like the writer might need to do some magic...pull a rabit out of his/her hat...to try to come up with reasons that justifies his actions...and make them believable so that the character can win back our hearts)

Dal Rae + Oh Joon: so it shouldn't be any surprise that i wasn't thrilled by their scenes >_<; one particular scene stuck out though...where Dal Rae was teaching Oh Joon how to meditate. aigoo...i could have done w/out the bathroom humor. i also didn't like this scene because i felt the actors themselves fell out of character. when they started laughing uncontrollably...it was very distracting because it didn't seem consistent w/ what their characters are like. they both seemed too bubbly...they're still at the stage of getting to know each other...so they shouldn't be so comfortable just yet. it kind of threw me off a bit...and took me out of the story to where i didn't see Dal Rae and Oh Joon...but Da Hae and Jang Hyuk...which is unfortunate. ^^;;

Soon Dae: eeks!...you guys are going to throw rocks at me i think...but let me just say right off the bat that i LOVE kids! and i think the child actress is adorableeeeeeee... @()@V but Soon Dae seems a little spoiled >_<; ...i was a spoiled, bratty little girl too...so i should know >_<;; i suppose that is my real problem with this character...it's hard to be reminded of yourse... *ahem*coughcough*...yourself at ONE point in time *nods skeptically*

but really, i'm not sure if i like the fact that mil and Dal Rae spoils Soon Dae so much. though i can understand how and why...the child is so precious to them...the only real, tangible part of him they have left.

the kiss: i didn't like the kiss...which is crazy because i NEVER dislike a kiss! (i've not seen every kdrama there is...but of those i've seen...i've NEVER disliked kisses ) is it because i'm still biased against Oh Joon's character? maybe. because i don't trust him...thinking this is another part of his plan...and not genuine? *nods* i'll be thrilled if later, in the next episode, it shows that he did kiss her on the whim...completely in the moment and w/out any ulterior motives... but after all we've seen of this character...i can't risk giving him the benefit of my doubt. ^^;;

the only scene in episode 4 that i liked

was the one where we see Jin Goo opening up a bit...attemping to "fly". goodness! there's hope for him yet! haha...that was really so cute!

but that scene of him speaking in English...w/ the America actor (hmmm, you know, he could be Canadian...hahaha...and actually, this one was pretty decent i thought ^^; )...i really couldn't understand what he was saying...especially towards the end. lol...but i love how Kim Jung Tae the actor is so confident saying those lines. he does a great job staying in character...you almost want to believe you can understand him.

Woo, Kirsten, love reading your insights.

I agree about the editing especially the train station scene then going to the "date" with Dal Rae seems a bit off.

Yes at this point, I don't even want him near Dal Rae. The scene with money changer did have a sitting effect, right? I was pretty disgusted with him throughout and just going, "go away! leave Dal Rae alone!"

I do hope so too that they try to "justify" his actions. But I do think the last scene was genuine.

And I agree Soon Dae IS spoiled. .

About the toilet humor scene. Looking at the Behind the Scenes, it did seem they were laughing waaaay too much even offcam over that.

[Auntie Mame]

I agree with everyone who commented on the flashback scene where she first found out about her husband. Lee Da Hae did a most incredible acting job in that scene. From her initial denial that she didn't understand what her husband's friend was saying, then to the blunt-force acceptance of what he was trying to said and finally, to the violent physical reaction to reality. Her acting encompassed all the emotions that one would expect to experience upon hearing such news.

This drama does not minimize any opportunity to add to the show. Such as when Jang Hyuk arrived at the steps of the library, he doesn't just walk in. He does a quick tap dance before he goes up the stairs. I found that very interesting. And, the dialog is great. "...I don't see a UFO..."

This drama is definitely a winner so far. I hope the rest of the show will be the same.

[Guest o-cha]

Auntie Mame : I'm glad to know you're enjoying this drama so far. I feel the same way. There's so many little things that make this drama so near and dear to my heart.

hagrid : Are you all caught up now? hehehe..I know this thread moves rather fast...especially on Weds and Thus...I guess so far the episodes have really given us a lot of stuff to talk about. And you're welcome...I'm glad you find the navi post useful.

pinklily : awwww it's too bad you're not enjoying ep 4 as much. I have to agree though that the editing wasn't as crisp as the other 3 episodes...maybe they were running short on time? Hopefully this won't happen in the next episodes. And yes the Jin Goo part was so touching,wasn't it? Soon Dae is spoiled but that is understandable...she is doted on by her mom and grandma....and even with her being so spoiled she is still so friggin adorable...hehehe.

imogene_af : forgot to tell you. I love the NGs of their kiss scene. Da Hae was laughing wayyy too much..hahaha. It's really nice to se them joking around though...

The more I read people's comments the more I'm wondering how the director will try to fix Oh Joon's character. It would take such a huge effort by the writer, director and actor to try to convince us that there is something good with Oh Joon. I hope they'll do it in a way that makes us believe rather than just force feeding us some nonsensical reason. But like I said previously I still don't hate OJ's character...not loving his character but I can still tolerate him now .

Ahhh..thanks for all the download links everybody (cutiepie, annchong, elaiine, and everyone else that contributed).

[Guest binaa2]

.................

The more I read people's comments the more I'm wondering how the director will try to fix Oh Joon's character. It would take such a huge effort by the writer, director and actor to try to convince us that there is something good with Oh Joon. I hope they'll do it in a way that makes us believe rather than just force feeding us some nonsensical reason. But like I said previously I still don't hate OJ's character...not loving his character but I can still tolerate him now .

Ahhh..thanks for all the download links everybody (cutiepie, annchong, elaiine, and everyone else that contributed).

As i mentioned earlier i really hate Oh Joon. I think he is unfixable. Kill him off asap j/k

But seriously i think this is what it leans towards anyway. The only other solution whould be like "lovers"

And do a 10-years-later-out-of-jail situation.

This i might add was what killed an otherwise decent drama for me.

[Guest ripgal]

Finally, I got around to watching Ep 4.

Well I wasn't exactly disappointed by it..I thought it was pretty well executed, albeit some of the parts coming out sorta random and out of the blue.. but overall, I thought it was pretty good.

First of all, about Oh Joon...sighz..I totally agree with all of you that he's really the man, the scoundrel, scum of the earth. But I don't know why..I feel really sorry for him. I know he's really despicable at this point, having treated Yeon Ah like that, screaming at her and pushing her away, which I thought was really really abusive and mean. But part of me tells me that he hates himself for doing that.. I don't know, but probably he wanted Yeon Ah to forget about him once and for all. And knowing that Yeon Ah's really a softhearted person, she might do everything she can to bring him back. I kinda felt it was the only way for Oh Joon to make Yeon Ah forget about him, the scoundre..who would go out far to do the worst things to scam of her money. I had a feeling that he was actually hurting inside when he said those words to Yeon Ah.. but again, who am I to redeem this guy's fault? ahhhh...

And oh, on to Oh Joon and Dal Rae. I agree that their meditation scene was a bit random.. cos Dal Rae was supposed to be avoiding him and not warming up to him. But then it crossed my mind.. that Dal Rae probably just wanted to thank Oh Joon for what he's done for her (altho she doesn't know his ulterior motives). Going back to where Oh Joon held Dal Rae in his arms when she cried thinking her husband came back..she probably thought it was fortunate for him to be there at that moment, when she needed all the consolation. And assuming that she really believed Oh Joon's story about his dead sister..upon her own experience of having grieved over a close relative, she probably wanted Oh Joon to unleash himself from all the pain, hence the meditation part. I liked the concept, but the way it was played out.. yeah, it was a bit too cheerful and bubbly. It could have been better if they'd toned down the hilarity and cheerfulness there.. But again, Robbers has always been full of surprises up till now

The kissing scene was actually better than I'd expected. Maybe it's because I felt that Oh Joon was genuinely admiring the beauty of Dal Rae at that moment, and wasn't exactly thinking about his money. The lighting did remind me about My Girl, but I thought it made it more romantic..so it was alright. Not that it was really nice or anything, but I don't dislike it.

Kim Jin Goo..he's really growing on me. I really like his individual scenes.. esp the part of him flying! It was so adorable.. but again, that scene showed how much he yearned to be free.. I guess he's always been controlled by his father, that he became so socially inadept, making him soooo hopeless when it comes to doing things that he likes. I hope he finds happiness soon..

Well again, I think this drama still has potential to be really good. The uniqueness of the drama was still there in Ep 4.

I'm looking forward to the next ep!

[Guest lilyrose]

I am quite possibly the only one here who is not looking for a back story to Oh Joon.

I don't think there is any reason for the writers to justify Oh Joon's actions (and it seems that most of the Oh Joon "haters" are offended, primarily, by his treatment of the money-changer girl).

Why do I not care for a back story? Well, nothing really should "justify" Oh Joon's actions.

The character's actions are unethical. He is a con man, a seducer, a womanizer, a thief, etc., etc.

That's who he is. Love it or hate it. Even if the writers come up with some story about his being abused or his having hard life, etc., it won't matter to me. His actions will still remain

despicable

(well, some of this actions--not all of them). Giving him a back story will create sympathy for him, possibly, but I feel sympathy for him despite some of his actions--and so far, he has me in his corner.

Why? Because his character has been punctuated by scenes of intense polarizations.

He moves from violence (perpetrated by him and to him) to tenderness to loneliness (the train station scene) to surprise (noticing that Rae is unmoved by his actions and noticing her/him regardless)...etc. The light and shadows that flicker throughout Oh Joon's scenes make him someone to be feared and loved.

So, for me, Joon is more interesting in how his unethical actions will inform his behavior in the future...NOT in how his past is informing his present. That is, I hope his character is not "fixed" but rather is evolved. If he fails to garner sympathy, that's fine, in my opinion. I don't need to sympathize with him to feel for him.

Therefore, how this kind of unrelentingly self-serving character will become the unselfish character that we know that he is on his way becoming is what's drawing me into this drama.

I desperately hope--since the ratings are low, what do the writers have to lose, anyway --that Oh Joon will be kept on the fringes of our expectations of a romantic lead...and then will be drawn slowly to the "good side," but without negating who he is. The redemptive quality of the show will then be so much more of a punch (a good punch, if there can be one) to the stomach .

Ah, I hope I made sense. Also, I am pretty sure that I am wishing for the impossible.

In all probability, Oh Joon will be turned into a really, really, really good character, after or before he has committed sufficient penance for his actions.

Sigh.

[Guest ripgal]

Why? Because his character has been punctuated by scenes of intense polarizations. He moves from violence (perpetrated by him and to him) to tenderness to loneliness (the train station scene) to surprise (noticing that Rae is unmoved by his actions and noticing her/him regardless)...etc. The light and shadows that flicker throughout Oh Joon's scenes make him someone to be feared and loved.

So, for me, Joon is more interesting in how his unethical actions will inform his behavior in the future...NOT in how his past is informing his present. That is, I hope his character is not "fixed" but rather is evolved. If he fails to garner sympathy, that's fine, in my opinion. I don't need to sympathize with him to feel for him.

Therefore, how this kind of unrelentingly self-serving character will become the unselfish character that we know that he is on his way becoming is what's drawing me into this drama.

WOW..this was so beautifully written. Totally took the words outta my mouth..

I was thinking the exact same thing you'd written.. but just didn't know how to spell it out. I really have to improve my way with words to discuss the drama with all of you articulate writers..

The drama's just playing out the real deal of a Scoundrel..and if it showed how much empathy he had for the girls he'd cheated, then the drama wouldn't be called Robbers..

[Guest monoceros]

Finally, I got around to watching Ep 4.

Well I wasn't exactly disappointed by it..I thought it was pretty well executed, albeit some of the parts coming out sorta random and out of the blue.. but overall, I thought it was pretty good.

First of all, about Oh Joon...sighz..I totally agree with all of you that he's really the man, the scoundrel, scum of the earth. But I don't know why..I feel really sorry for him. I know he's really despicable at this point, having treated Yeon Ah like that, screaming at her and pushing her away, which I thought was really really abusive and mean. But part of me tells me that he hates himself for doing that.. I don't know, but probably he wanted Yeon Ah to forget about him once and for all. And knowing that Yeon Ah's really a softhearted person, she might do everything she can to bring him back. I kinda felt it was the only way for Oh Joon to make Yeon Ah forget about him, the scoundre..who would go out far to do the worst things to scam of her money. I had a feeling that he was actually hurting inside when he said those words to Yeon Ah.. but again, who am I to redeem this guy's fault? ahhhh...

And oh, on to Oh Joon and Dal Rae. I agree that their meditation scene was a bit random.. cos Dal Rae was supposed to be avoiding him and not warming up to him. But then it crossed my mind.. that Dal Rae probably just wanted to thank Oh Joon for what he's done for her (altho she doesn't know his ulterior motives). Going back to where Oh Joon held Dal Rae in his arms when she cried thinking her husband came back..she probably thought it was fortunate for him to be there at that moment, when she needed all the consolation. And assuming that she really believed Oh Joon's story about his dead sister..upon her own experience of having grieved over a close relative, she probably wanted Oh Joon to unleash himself from all the pain, hence the meditation part. I liked the concept, but the way it was played out.. yeah, it was a bit too cheerful and bubbly. It could have been better if they'd toned down the hilarity and cheerfulness there.. But again, Robbers has always been full of surprises up till now

The kissing scene was actually better than I'd expected. Maybe it's because I felt that Oh Joon was genuinely admiring the beauty of Dal Rae at that moment, and wasn't exactly thinking about his money. The lighting did remind me about My Girl, but I thought it made it more romantic..so it was alright. Not that it was really nice or anything, but I don't dislike it.

Kim Jin Goo..he's really growing on me. I really like his individual scenes.. esp the part of him flying! It was so adorable.. but again, that scene showed how much he yearned to be free.. I guess he's always been controlled by his father, that he became so socially inadept, making him soooo hopeless when it comes to doing things that he likes. I hope he finds happiness soon..

Well again, I think this drama still has potential to be really good. The uniqueness of the drama was still there in Ep 4.

I'm looking forward to the next ep!

i agree with you on the quality of ep 4. I didn't think it was anything below the bar that they've been working at.. (which is pretty high).

It's true that dramas can be really deliberate sometimes though

Meditation scene was awkward, and the reasoning behind it was kind of pushing it, but now that it;'s happened, we can only accept it. Actually I didn't like the kiss scene either, just because I know exactly what Dal Rae is going to do. She's not going to like him because he kissed her. She's going to push him away and be angry at him,, unless Robbers pulls another surprise on us which would be nice.

And of course Oh Joon's terrible, but I like it, it's unique how horrible he is. I'm kind of just waiting for the good side of him to shine through somewhere. But a part of me thought that at the part where he was berating Yeon Ah, he was not as mean as he could've been. In fact, he insulted himself more than he insulted her. I think he hates himself a lot. And the most insulting thing I though he said was "What have I taken from you" but I think that's just because Oh Joon doesn't believe in love yet.

[Guest bluenitesky]

hi lily i really like the way you observe Oh joon but do you mind explaining more about what this mean

That is, I hope his character is not "fixed" but rather is evolved

because i was thinking if the writer fix his character to make him a better nicer person isn't that the same as him evolving into a person with more intergrity ?

[shirley]

[*]gangpae boss + mil: nothing new about these two? come on! she's still mad at him? (and i'm not sure i understand why) and all he can do about it is...have his men follow him in the car while he walks ahead of them, moping about it? i know mr. gangpae boss has a soft inner core...but this is just silly. i hope the writer fleshes out this character a bit...he's a talented actor, he should be given something more to work with. i don't want him to be there just for comic relief...his gangpae minions have got that more than covered...although i found in this episode that their scenes were a bit much...also too silly.

she is mad at him because ..she felt quite insulting of relying on gangster money to get her earnings . and whatmore those people didnt know what they are signing .it feel like ..she is a cheater in a way --;;....and that gangpae boss was the one who is "responsible" . she know he has good intention ..but she doesn't appreciate such gesture of pity .

i love Jang Hyuk the actor...and i think he's doing great job portraying Oh Joon (perhaps too great of a job ^^; but there's a problem with the character. what's his motivation? i want to know...so i can TRY to justify his actions. the writer really needs to clue us in on a bit of his history...why he is who he is now...give us something to go on that makes us think he is still redeamable...do it before it's too late. and another thing is...if he can bear to treat someone as vulnerable as Yoon Ah so cruely...what's going to make Dal Rae's situation any different? (it's only episode 4, but i'm already starting to feel like the writer might need to do some magic...pull a rabit out of his/her hat...to try to come up with reasons that justifies his actions...and make them believable so that the character can win back our hearts)

he has no motivation .that is precisely why he is living such a way . * maybe they can tell me why he has such a huge debt but till then .. basically ..to me , he lives the way he lives because that is the only way he know how .

going back to his past wont really make his deeds now more justifiable . --; maybe you can understand why did he turn out to be such a scum but it cant really justify his actions at least to me .so you have a messy childhood or some woman hurt you before ..or you have a dark history of family secrets . ..does that give you the right to ruin women's life , robbed them of their emotions.

i can accept that oh joon is just as he is ..a coward and weaklings who choose the way he lives his life and whatever frustration and hate he ..he inflicted onto others ...SO ..that is what kwon oh joon is about .* .now let see what the future holds for him .

but..higher chances are they will turned him into a saint after he start to repent . --;; though i prefer to see a different treatment ......

btw . i too dun like the kiss ..again it feel staged as if ..okay now we need a kiss scene .let all move to the park and get the lighting on the tree ready ~ maybe i am losing my romantic touches ..

there something not quite right with the editing in esp 4 ~ that why it feel abit random . i fear if the scriptwriter really have time to develop the script ..

And of course Oh Joon's terrible, but I like it, it's unique how horrible he is. I'm kind of just waiting for the good side of him to shine through somewhere. But a part of me thought that at the part where he was berating Yeon Ah, he was not as mean as he could've been. In fact, he insulted himself more than he insulted her. I think he hates himself a lot. And the most insulting thing I though he said was "What have I taken from you" but I think that's just because Oh Joon doesn't believe in love yet.

not as mean as he could have been in the sense ...he didnt beat her up ? .but he told her to

just go die then

that to me is enough , might as well put a gun in her hand .

yes he is frustrated and hated himself . how he had become and what he is doing . it is nothing to be proud of . but i want to know if he has a choice ?! . maybe he just born a weakling .who cant face what he should be . and choose the easy way out .

[Guest imogene_af]

Re: Oh Joon. Just a clear up before I look like a pro male chauvinist.

I don't think his actions are justifiable, I just want more of a root to it. I used the word "justify" in quotations --term used loosely. It is just my desire to sort of delve more into the character. Lex Luthor in Smallville (Smallville seasons 1-3 was pretty good TV then it turned crapola) is one bad richard simmons mofo, but they told his story quite beautifully. In his mind, his twisted ways are fine because he was brought up in an enviroment where he will be eaten alive by having a heart. It is not a way to agree or sympathize with the character but to actually see what's inside that warped mind.

"Dexter" had a serial killer as a lead and you can still see the inner workings of such actions.

I am basically saying to flesh out this character more. Doesn't necesarilly mean we'll have episodes and episodes of crying flashbacks. I just want it all layered out may it be explicit or subtle. Not just leave us up in the air. But I do believe no matter how grimy this character is written there are speckles of light there that will emerge. I can really sense a lot of self-hatred in Oh Joon. I do believe he's one fragile guy underneath his "tough" persona (using that real loosely).

And I think based on this writer's credentials he can flesh this character out more.

Lilyrose brings up a pretty good analysis too on how we're not supposed to sympathize with him.

OhmyGawd, this drama is really making us all type a lot.

[shirley]

there no need to go too far into US dramas ...kdramas does have it gems of the kind who you eventually accepted them as they are ...like .Bok-su in Ruler of your own World , dr jang joon hyuck in white tower. they were brilliant roles that you eventually feel for them...their flaws and their mistakes ..you might not forgive them especically for dr jang ..you cant find in yourself to forgive . .but you weep for them ya and Hyun ji-Seok in 90 days of love ..that man is such a selfish "jerk", sometimes you feel like you want to slap him awake but it was no use. in the end .destiny works a path out for him

.as for this writer .the closest one i can rem was Jo in Sung's role in Piano not in the same category as dr jang . but .he was a wrecked man .determined to destory himself , that man was pure madness at first aiming for self destruction

his sins even include taking a woman he loved by force in his fury .that was rape.

...yet ..there was a light for him ..at the end .

[Guest imogene_af]

there no need to go too far into US dramas ...kdramas does have it gems of the kind who you eventually accepted them as they are ...like .Bok-su in Ruler of your own World , dr jang joon hyuck in white tower. they were brilliant roles that you eventually feel for them...their flaws and their mistakes ..you might not forgive them especically for dr jang ..you cant find in yourself to forgive . .but you weep for them ya and Hyun ji-Seok in 90 days of love ..that man is such a selfish "jerk", sometimes you feel like you want to slap him awake but it was no use. in the end .destiny works a path out for him

.as for this writer .the closest one i can rem was Jo in Sung's role in Piano not in the same category as dr jang . but .he was a wrecked man .determined to destory himself , that man was pure madness at first aiming for self destruction

his sins even include taking a woman he loved by force in his fury .that was rape.

...yet ..there was a light for him ..at the end .

Lex Luthor is the only one I can put at the top of my head because I liked that character. But yes, most US dramas will not come close to the complexities of the way the characters are written in the K-Drama realm.

I think one of the intriguing aspects of ROBBER is the anti-hero Oh Joon, he is just cunning and so the unromantic type of leading man. It's kind of literally falling in love with the "villain" on paper. But such titles like "hero" or "villain" or "good guy" or "bad guy"... it just won't give justice to what this drama is offering me so far.

Anyway, I may have to check out "Piano" and "White Tower" based on your descriptions.

Re: About the kiss. Where can I get that automatic light parade when I choose to kiss someone? So convenient! Haha.

[Guest lilyrose]

OhmyGawd, this drama is really making us all type a lot.

imogene_af, good point. Something about this drama has struck a chord with us. I have been wondering why. I mean, it's not like we haven't had this "bad" characters turn to "good" story before. I think it is credit to Jang Hyuk that we are discussing his character as much as we are!

ripgal Posted Today, 06:22 PM

I really have to improve my way with words to discuss the drama with all of you articulate writers.

Thank you, ripgal. More importantly, I think we are all a pretty articulate group of viewers in this thread, actually. I've been enjoying reading your posts!

bluenitesky Posted Today, 07:50 PM

because i was thinking if the writer fix his character to make him a better nicer person isn't that the same as him evolving into a person with more intergrity ?

bluenitesky : Thank you for your comment...and your question.

I guess to me "fixing" means taking something that is broken and making it whole. So fixing the character will mean giving him reasons or causes for atonement, etc.--making us "like" him.

I think with the "evolving" statement, I meant allowing something broken to remain broken, but the broken pieces are allowed to have growing worth. I guess I would like to see this character remain broken (a con man, womanizer, etc.) and still reflect something worthwhile from the broken shards (his eventual need to love or protect Rae and company).

Hope that makes sense. I know that I am being too esoteric. In fact, I am sure I am! But it is hard for me to not be esoteric with this character so far (maybe future episodes will make him more of a typical romantic lead...and I will be depressed and disappointed, but oh well, it's just fiction )!

imogene_af Posted Today, 10:18 PM

Re: Oh Joon. Just a clear up before I look like a pro male chauvinist

I don't think that your comments anywhere have made you seem that way at all! I hope my comments about not needing justification didn't make you think that.

Also, regardless of whether we like or do not like Oh Joon, it should not ever reflect upon us as people. I don't think we should defend our defense of Oh Joon . I hope we all agree on that!

Where can I get that automatic light parade when I choose to kiss someone? So convenient! Haha.

I will look on Ebay and get back to you on that. I will also see if we can get Hyuk thrown into the deal. The light parade will have better effect if it is Hyuk doing kissing, right?

[shirley]

I think one of the intriguing aspects of ROBBER is the anti-hero Oh Joon, he is just cunning and so the unromantic type of leading man. It's kind of literally falling in love with the "villain" on paper. But such titles like "hero" or "villain" or "good guy" or "bad guy"... it just won't give justice to what this drama is offering me so far.

Anyway, I may have to check out "Piano" and "White Tower" based on your descriptions.

Re: About the kiss. Where can I get that automatic light parade when I choose to kiss someone? So convenient! Haha.

you shd add in Ruler of your own world . that drama is technically one of those which started the mania drama craze and is a cult drama .and the *anti hero* . Ko Bok-su, ..now that is one antihero that even fall short in the appearance department .but Yang Dong-geun performance was excellent .

in short .this is a story about a thief ..who has a brain tumour in his head .

http://www.koreanfilm.org/tvdramas/index.htm#ruler

[Guest imogene_af]

I don't think that your comments anywhere have made you seem that way at all! I hope my comments about not needing justification didn't make you think that.

Also, regardless of whether we like or do not like Oh Joon, it should not ever reflect upon us as people. I don't think we should defend our defense of Oh Joon . I hope we all agree on that!

I will look on Ebay and get back to you on that. I will also see if we can get Hyuk thrown into the deal. The light parade will have better effect if it is Hyuk doing kissing, right?

No, I just looked at my comment again and went... did I say "justify"?! Haha, I did say I'll be a prey for Oh Joon in Episode 3, but a college student paying loans won't be much use for him.

But I honestly love reading this thread because of EVERY SINGLE ONE's take on the story and the characters. Even when we agree or disagree, it's just so amazing how we have a lively and intelligent discussion because of this.

... allowing something broken to remain broken, but the broken pieces are allowed to have growing worth. I guess I would like to see this character remain broken (a con man, womanizer, etc.) and still reflect something worthwhile from the broken shards (his eventual need to love or protect Rae and company).

I am in awe at this description. Oh Joon is one broken man, the parallelism about the broken shards had me nodding here nonstop. You have a way with words.

But I still want Oh Joon to save a puppy to "fix" his character.

And about the Ebay deal, if you do find it... please do tell, and can I get a shirtless Jang Hyuk to go with it?

you shd add in Ruler of your own world . that drama is technically one of those which started the mania drama craze and is a cult drama .and the *anti hero* . Ko Bok-su, ..now that is one antihero that even fall short in the appearance department .but Yang Dong-geun performance was excellent .

in short .this is a story about a thief ..who has a brain tumour in his head .

http://www.koreanfilm.org/tvdramas/index.htm#ruler

Oh thanks for the suggestion. Hm, now it's our lovable anti heroes!

[hagrid0211]

Finally, I got around to watching Ep 4.

Well I wasn't exactly disappointed by it..I thought it was pretty well executed, albeit some of the parts coming out sorta random and out of the blue.. but overall, I thought it was pretty good.

Ripgal... yay! brilliant review on the fourth episode... ive really been waiting for this... thanks on your input on the episode... it's really making me anticipate the release of the subs even more... looking forward to your thoughts on the upcoming episodes...

Why do I not care for a back story? Well, nothing really should "justify" Oh Joon's actions.

The character's actions are unethical. He is a con man, a seducer, a womanizer, a thief, etc., etc.

That's who he is. Love it or hate it. Even if the writers come up with some story about his being abused or his having hard life, etc., it won't matter to me. His actions will still remain

despicable

(well, some of this actions--not all of them). Giving him a back story will create sympathy for him, possibly, but I feel sympathy for him despite some of his actions--and so far, he has me in his corner.

Why? Because his character has been punctuated by scenes of intense polarizations.

He moves from violence (perpetrated by him and to him) to tenderness to loneliness (the train station scene) to surprise (noticing that Rae is unmoved by his actions and noticing her/him regardless)...etc. The light and shadows that flicker throughout Oh Joon's scenes make him someone to be feared and loved.

So, for me, Joon is more interesting in how his unethical actions will inform his behavior in the future...NOT in how his past is informing his present. That is, I hope his character is not "fixed" but rather is evolved. If he fails to garner sympathy, that's fine, in my opinion. I don't need to sympathize with him to feel for him.

lilyrose

*gives standing ovation* you really got me thinking and you've really convinced me not to expect, or better yet not to demand, for a backstory...

it's rather rare that my mind goes through the process of Heidegger's astonishment (Bestaunten) to Descartes' enlightenment in a matter of 5 minutes but your post have certainly done it... you should really really talk to my Philosophy prof whose thoughts and insights have the same effect on me...

i was like... from: what? --to-> ahhhh i see while i was reading your post...

harhaharhar you really could not have put it into any better jumble words... WONDERFUL! it is a rather disturbing yet a really really intelligently mature perspective on the character of Oh Joon... im in AWE... i was like... i wish my mind analyzes and articulates words that well... harhar... thanks for the wonderful phenomenon you've brought to all of us - ENLIGHTENMENT!!!

And of course Oh Joon's terrible, but I like it, it's unique how horrible he is. I'm kind of just waiting for the good side of him to shine through somewhere. But a part of me thought that at the part where he was berating Yeon Ah, he was not as mean as he could've been. In fact, he insulted himself more than he insulted her. I think he hates himself a lot. And the most insulting thing I though he said was "What have I taken from you" but I think that's just because Oh Joon doesn't believe in love yet.

monoceros

aye aye!!! agreeee!!! another good point!!! this room is really full of intelligent threaders... im learning quite a lot... whaharharhar

Re: Oh Joon. Just a clear up before I look like a pro male chauvinist.

I don't think his actions are justifiable, I just want more of a root to it. I used the word "justify" in quotations --term used loosely. It is just my desire to sort of delve more into the character. Lex Luthor in Smallville (Smallville seasons 1-3 was pretty good TV then it turned crapola) is one bad richard simmons mofo, but they told his story quite beautifully. In his mind, his twisted ways are fine because he was brought up in an enviroment where he will be eaten alive by having a heart. It is not a way to agree or sympathize with the character but to actually see what's inside that warped mind.

imogene need i say more (im afraid if i did i would really be devaluing/butchering) your thoughts... yah i thought Smallville was quite good through its first three season too (although i was always cringing with tom welling's lack in the acting department)... but the following seasons were just too painful to watch! anyway i love how you used Lex Luthor vis-a-vis possible Oh Joon depiction to concretely show us your point...

[Guest ripgal]

I am basically saying to flesh out this character more. Doesn't necesarilly mean we'll have episodes and episodes of crying flashbacks. I just want it all layered out may it be explicit or subtle. Not just leave us up in the air. But I do believe no matter how grimy this character is written there are speckles of light there that will emerge. I can really sense a lot of self-hatred in Oh Joon. I do believe he's one fragile guy underneath his "tough" persona (using that real loosely).

Good take of an analysis on Oh Joon's inner character..

I just love how you go deep into the core and roots of this guys' actions, but not necessarily pointing out what's supposed to be inside his mind. * I think the the approach taken by this drama's really different..and I like it.. not so the average Kdrama bad guy we always see*

I think from the preview of Ep 5, we'll see more of Oh Joon's inner conflicts and turmoils..

I remember seeing him crying hard in one of the scenes

.

.as for this writer .the closest one i can rem was Jo in Sung's role in Piano not in the same category as dr jang . but .he was a wrecked man .determined to destory himself , that man was pure madness at first aiming for self destruction

his sins even include taking a woman he loved by force in his fury .that was rape.

...yet ..there was a light for him ..at the end .

Yes! I also thought of Jo In Sung's character in Piano when analysing Oh Joon's actions. *writer's really good with such characters...cos altho JIS was bad in Piano, I couldn't help but feel for him, just like how I'm reacting to Oh Joon's abusive mannerisms here*

I think they're basically the same.. they hate how their lives are played out, and yet they don't have the determination to change or somehow just improve themselves. It's just like giving up on yourself, when you actually know there's this teeny weeny hope for you..but again you choose not to perservere.

[Guest ripgal]

Some Robber goodies

Ep 3 and Ep 4 BTS

--

Kim Jin Goo/ Kim Jung Tae Interview

Download: http://www.fs2you.com/files/6a548f75-c2ae-...9-00142218fc6e/

credits: SBS Bulhandang/ baidu

[Guest maprang]

Thanks for sharing pics ^^