[drama 2005] Peculiar Woman, Peculiar Man. 별난여자, 별난&#45224

[Guest professor97]

Well, I don't know the artivle said, but I know that I am surprised that so many of you think Sukhyun and Jongnam are selfish. I understand that Korea is an interdependent country and the belief in following your elders is important. America is an independent society and so we value the right to do as one wants. It is a cultural difference that colors how we see things.

Pumpkin, what is the audience in Korea saying?

[~*kYo*~]

i personally had enough of this "Sukhyun-Jongnam-Selfish-People" tirade...give it up people...it's not your life/future (even though they're just fictional characters)...so chill and let them be!

[dandan1964]

This is FUN! ... ...... For me, it is just fun to watch & debate like this. To each, his own.

I like that people are talking about something besides whether GJW is cuter with or without his glasses...

[Guest emceema]

Coming from an Asian country, I could understand what some viewers say about respecting elders and marrying with their blessing even if it meant settling with a partner. The idea of marrying into a good family has been hammered to children time and again. However, I have lived in the US for 30 some years and I have admired the individuality of americans. I prefer to marry for love and hurdle the obstacles against us. It would be more fulfilling if accomplished.

This topic cannot be debated enough. There are thousands of viewers out there with thousands different opinion. :tongue2:

[Guest kawaiiyuki]

Well i still think it's fun to talk about all this. I mean sure we shouldn't worry and that this whole thing is a show and not likely going to take place in real life. But i think it's great just to talk about.

Looks like we'll have to see if SH tell JN that he's sick. SH and JN look like they are having fun as newlyweds. I do hope they signed the marriage license. NAra will have some nasty plan if they did not. One more thing. I thought NAra kicked her hubbie out. Why is he still living there?

[addex3]

Well i still think it's fun to talk about all this. I mean sure we shouldn't worry and that this whole thing is a show and not likely going to take place in real life. But i think it's great just to talk about.

Looks like we'll have to see if SH tell JN that he's sick. SH and JN look like they are having fun as newlyweds. I do hope they signed the marriage license. NAra will have some nasty plan if they did not. One more thing. I thought NAra kicked her hubbie out. Why is he still living there?

It is fun to talk & write about. Here is something related I got in my email recently that will give you a smile.

HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHO TO MARRY?

( 1 ) You got to find somebody who likes the same stuff. Like, if you like sports, she should like it that you like sports, and she should keep the chips and dip coming. -- Alan, age 10

(2 ) No person really decides before they grow up who they're going to marry. God decides it all way before, and you get to find out later who you're stuck with. -- Kirsten, age 10

WHAT IS THE RIGHT AGE TO GET MARRIED?

( 1 ) Twenty-three is the best age because you know the person FOREVER by then. -- Camille, age 10

(2 ) No age is good to get married at. You got to be a fool to get married. -- Freddie, age 6 (very wise for his age)

HOW CAN A STRANGER TELL IF TWO PEOPLE ARE MARRIED?

( 1 ) You might have to guess, based on whether they seem to be yelling at the same kids. -- Derrick, age 8

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR MOM AND DAD HAVE IN COMMON?

( 1 ) Both don't want any more kids. -- Lori, age 8

WHAT DO MOST PEOPLE DO ON A DATE?

( 1 ) Dates are for having fun, and people should use them to get to know each other. Even boys have something to say if you listen long enough. -- Lynnette, age 8 (isn't she a treasure)

(2 ) On the first date, they just tell each other lies and that usually gets them interested enough to go for a second date. -- Martin, age 10

WHAT WOULD YOU DO ON A FIRST DATE THAT WAS TURNING SOUR?

( 1 ) I'd run home and play dead. The next day I would call all the newspapers and make sure they wrote about me in all the dead columns. -- Craig, age 9

WHEN IS IT OKAY TO KISS SOMEONE?

( 1 ) When they're rich. -- Pam, age 7

(2 ) The law says you have to be eighteen, so I wouldn't want to mess with that. -- Curt, age 7

(3 ) The rule goes like this: If you kiss someone, then you should marry them and have kids with them. It's the right thing to do. -- Howard, age 8

IS IT BETTER TO BE SINGLE OR MARRIED?

(1 ) It's better for girls to be single but not for boys. Boys need someone to clean up after them. -- Anita, age 9 (bless you child)

HOW WOULD THE WORLD BE DIFFERENT IF PEOPLE DIDN'T GET MARRIED?

( 1 ) There sure would be a lot of kids to explain, wouldn't there? -- Kelvin, age 8

And the ..1 Favorite is.....

HOW WOULD YOU MAKE A MARRIAGE WORK?

( 1 ) Tell your wife that she looks pretty, even if she looks like a truck. -- Ricky, age 10

[Guest pumpkin06]

Well, I don't know the artivle said, but I know that I am surprised that so many of you think Sukhyun and Jongnam are selfish. I understand that Korea is an interdependent country and the belief in following your elders is important. America is an independent society and so we value the right to do as one wants. It is a cultural difference that colors how we see things.

Pumpkin, what is the audience in Korea saying?

Viewers in Korea are divided on the issue but maybe even more polar in their opinion based on the forum posting. Some hates JN & SH for being "selfish", some blames JN for all the trouble, some thinks it's just punishement for SH to be sick, and some cheers Nara for her action. Some still insist that they are cousins and it's wrong for them to be together. Of course, many still want JN & SH to be happy. I am not surprised at the recent discussion on this board since KBS forum is even more heated which is why I haven't been spending much time at the KBS forum. Stay just enough to fish out early posting of previews.

I don't want to get into legnthy discussion, but I just want to get one thing off my chest. Many Koreans are prejudice when it comes to orphans, and adoption is still looked at as a shame for both parents and adopted child. And that is a underlying cause of so much ill-feeling toward JN. There is a saying in Korea, "you shouldn't take in black-headed animal" which refers to bringing in/adopting a person ("black-headed"). Whenever KBS viewers mention that and use JN as a good example of that (for "causing trouble in family and betraying JO") my blood just boil. Malja is a good example who belives orphans lack "foundations" and not good enough for her family despite the fact that her family doesn't really have anything to show for either in terms of money, education, or position (if JN had either money or position, there would not be a problem. She would still have problem if she only had education). She told SH (after the kidnap incident) that JN's real parents can be a crimal/bad people and worried what if they show up later. MJ also said that she can accept JN for making JO happy, but JN is not good enough for a grand-daughter-in-law because it's a losing bargain for the family. One of theme among KBS viewers who hate JN is: "how dare she...she is a no match for SH...if I were Nara, I wouldn't want woman like JN to marry my son...etc." I understand that orphans may lack proper upbringing, but then again, even some children in "proper" family grow up to be rotten eggs. At least with orphans, society and citizen that turn their back to them must bear some responsibilities. It's not a coincident that Korea ophans are still likely to be adopted to foreign country than to a Korean couple. Let's not even go to prejudice against children who are of mixed race in Korea. As a Korean (and I am not adopted so I say this strictly from an observer point of view), I always felt ashamed for the culture that values family and the good of society above individuals but fails to take care of members of their own who are born into and grow up in the disadvantaged cirumstance at no fault of their own.

Professor, since I read scripts to catch up with current ep (although I am usually 3 ep behide most of time), I thought to clarify your question about ceremony and marriage license issue. SH told JO that he plans to file for marriage license (since JN is pregnant) even though they would have to postpond the wedding until they have the family blessing (that' when SH also told her that he believes JN is his wife and JO tells him to find a place to live with JN). So he is aware of the fact that filing for marriage licence is important. Also when he picked up JN to go see the apt for them to live, he mentioned that he is busy finding apartment, turning in marriage license ("marriage report"), etc. It's not clear if SH actually was able to officially turned in marriage license, but it's clear that he knows that's what make the marriage official regardless of any form of ceremony (promise ceremony they had and wedding ceremoney they want to have after they have family blessing).

[Guest Mme. De Giry]

I like that people are talking about something besides whether GJW is cuter with or without his glasses...

So...does he? Look cuter with glasses, I mean?

What I just absolutely hate about this drama is the sexism. No matter what happens it's always "that girl/you bad person" and "our dear SH/poor SH." It just makes me gag. Why does JN always get the blame? It wasn't her idea to go to their little tryst by the sea, and yet somehow they still manage to make it look like she was the one doing the dragging and not SH. She avoided SH the moment she knew about him and HI, while SH played stalker-boy (watching her clean tables from outside, etc). And yet, miracles of miracles---it's still JN's fault! Is that really how they look at the sons in Korea? Like they're some faultless, innocent, hey-she-seduced-me-mom-I-couldn't-help-it people? It's just too sexist. That's why I feel protective towards JN. She always gets the short end of the stick. And now with the pregnancy? I felt so riled up watching JO "hit" (it wasn't really hitting, but I don't know how to describe it) JN. If I were JO, I would have charged at SH, brandishing my very sharp knife in the air, screaming at the top of my lungs, "Castrate him!" But JO only "hit" him once and ended up on his feet. Even then, it seemed like she was recognizing his authority as a "man." Gah. It just really irked me watching that.

*EDIT* I just saw pumpkin's reply above... And wow. I'm so stunned to hear that. I really am glad I'm not Korean. I mean, it's all fine and well to uphold the family honor, but if it means you have to step on one person to do that just doesn't make any sense. But then again, different cultures view values differently. Let's just be glad there are many people willing to adopt Korean orphans since some of their own people won't recognize them as integral parts of their society. It's just sad to think about. It wasn't the child's fault to be in that predicament, and yet he suffers for it---something he had no hand in.

[Guest xXeunhaexP]

did they really get married? i think it was just a promise-kinda-thing, nonetheless it was very sweet :blush:

hmm come to think of it, they might ahve not really gotten married. i dunno though. i guess they just made vows then

hmm.. this is my two cents on jH and Sh. well as i watch this drama it frustrates me because everyone awlays picks on JH. i mean i understand where everyone is coming from that SH and JH are "selfish"and dont listen to their elders. but i dunno, they are adults now and the only thing they can do is to live together with their baby. i mean they already concieved a baby and its not like they can erase what has already happened. the only i guess resonable step for them to do is to get married and live together. i am korean and i understand why koreans are like no you shouldnt do that and stuff. but i guess since i got americanized i would much rather have SH and JH just go their own ways. the adults will hopefully allow them to be happy and by watching them be happy, slowly let them be happy ahhh, i just hope its a happy ending

[Guest snam124]

I've been really enjoying reading the discussion here. I think everyone's brought up some good points. It's interesting how a drama can evoke such strong emotions and heated debates!! Well like n5y17cgirl, I don't have the energy to join in on the debate, but I can understand both the korean and american/western point of view.

Like pumpkin mentioned, I really think the main reason the elders and Nara hate JN so much is because she is an orphan :fury: I'm amazed such discrimination still exists and it's unfortunate that so many korean orphans can't find good adoptive families in their own country. I've always wanted to adopt from korea and still hope to one day. However when I bring this idea up to family members/elders, they think I'm joking and are adamantly against the idea. This puts me in a dilemma...can I adopt a child that no one in my family will accept? I know it takes a long time for a society to change, but hopefully adoption advocates and the media (using dramas like this) will help koreans change their views on adoption and orphans...

professor- i'll try to post screen caps by tonight along with the dialogue you asked about. i'll try my best at the translation, but may need some help with the conversation since the script isn't up yet on kbs. so if anyone can lend me hand, thanks in advance!!

[Guest Mme. De Giry]

What you think of as a prejudice against orphans is not a prejudice at all.

It's a statistic of a sort. Kinda like physiognomy. Not everyone believes in it, and I don't believe it as a fortunetelling. But I think it has some validity as a statistical science.

Can you please clarify this for me, donilpark? I don't want to get the wrong impression here, but it sounds to me like you're saying if majority of the people view orphans a certain way, then it doesn't mean prejudice anymore.

[Guest n5y17cgirl]

I don't want to get into legnthy discussion, but I just want to get one thing off my chest. Many Koreans are prejudice when it comes to orphans, and adoption is still looked at as a shame for both parents and adopted child. And that is a underlying cause of so much ill-feeling toward JN. There is a saying in Korea, "you shouldn't take in black-headed animal" which refers to bringing in/adopting a person ("black-headed"). Whenever KBS viewers mention that and use JN as a good example of that (for "causing trouble in family and betraying JO") my blood just boil. Malja is a good example who belives orphans lack "foundations" and not good enough for her family despite the fact that her family doesn't really have anything to show for either in terms of money, education, or position (if JN had either money or position, there would not be a problem. She would still have problem if she only had education). She told SH (after the kidnap incident) that JN's real parents can be a crimal/bad people and worried what if they show up later. MJ also said that she can accept JN for making JO happy, but JN is not good enough for a grand-daughter-in-law because it's a losing bargain for the family. One of theme among KBS viewers who hate JN is: "how dare she...she is a no match for SH...if I were Nara, I wouldn't want woman like JN to marry my son...etc." I understand that orphans may lack proper upbringing, but then again, even some children in "proper" family grow up to be rotten eggs. At least with orphans, society and citizen that turn their back to them must bear some responsibilities. It's not a coincident that Korea ophans are still likely to be adopted to foreign country than to a Korean couple. Let's not even go to prejudice against children who are of mixed race in Korea. As a Korean (and I am not adopted so I say this strictly from an observer point of view), I always felt ashamed for the culture that values family and the good of society above individuals but fails to take care of members of their own who are born into and grow up in the disadvantaged cirumstance at no fault of their own.

pumpkin06 - thank you for your input and for sharing your views on this. I agree with you and many others of you here in that just because JN is an orphan, that shouldn't be a reason for people to look down on her and treat her as such. Ideally, that shouldn't define whether or not someone is "good enough" to marry into a family, irregardless of their status. And yes, I do acknowledge the fact that often times when Korean women marry, many of them are marrying the entire family - even today. Family is just a very central part of Korean culture, and the whole "who you can/should marry thing" is just something that's steeped into tradition... Of course, that's not to say that it's just a Korean thing, either. It's just that from personal experience, as a second generation Korean-American woman who is of marrying age, I understand and can sense the importance of certain qualities or status that our parents' generation look for in a potential husband or vice versa. It's interesting, though, b/c when this whole discussion began, I also thought of the example of how Koreans tend to be prejudice towards half-children (of mixed race/ethnicity) or anyone who is "different". Only recently have Koreans in Korea begun to openly accept half-Koreans, mostly due to the popularity of certain celebrities - i.e. Daniel Henney, Dennis O'Neill, Deena/Dianna(?), etc. For those who are non-Koreans, I understand how harsh this must sound or how difficult it may be to understand... I hope you don't get the wrong idea... but it definitely is a cultural thing - one that I hope will change over time.

I know some of you are tired of reading all this, but that was just my quick thing there. I don't want to get into the whole "JN/SH being selfish" thing. But I did want to reply to what pumpkin had to say above. Anyway, moving on...

It is fun to talk & write about. Here is something related I got in my email recently that will give you a smile.

HOW DO YOU DECIDE WHO TO MARRY?

That was incredibly cute! Thank you so much for sharing. I couldn't help but smile/laugh while reading that.

[Guest donilpark]

Can you please clarify this for me, donilpark? I don't want to get the wrong impression here, but it sounds to me like you're saying if majority of the people view orphans a certain way, then it doesn't mean prejudice anymore.

It is a prejudice.

But I'm just saying it's much like physiognomy.

I'm basically saying the thing called stereotypes is not wrong like many people make it out to be. The word may have a bad connotation for you, but if you really think about it, stereotypes and prejudices are in place because they are right most of the time. (although sometimes wrong prejudice could be reinforced or become a victim of self-realizing prophecy...) That's why they are there in the first place.

They save us time and effort of having to go through each individual case in detail and allow us to make quick decisions.

Now, of course there is the minority who don't fall into such stereotypes.

That's when this gets problematic, but you always have to make a trade-off.

If you're an apple grower, you can closely inspect each apple for best quality.

Alternatively, you can just put all you grew in one box, after taking a sample and ensuring that the average quality of that sample is acceptable.

The decision is yours to make.

But I don't think the so-called 'prejudice' is always bad. It's valid a lot of times. In fact, it's valid most of the time.

I can't expect Suckhyeon's family to get to know Jongnam as closely as Suckhyeon does. They just have certain criteria, and Jongnam just doesn't meet them. I won't blame the family for that. Although by now, it would be good if anyone just gives in. Because Suckhyeon and Jongnam are definitely not joking about all this either. If they continue on this escalating warfare, everyone is going to be hurt in the end. Anyone can yield now, but I think it should have been Suckhyeon and Jongnam who should have given up in the first place. (and they knew this too. They just couldn't help it)

It's like this.

You know how people say "I will never be like my mother/father" but when they grow up and have child, they act just the way their parents did?

I know my mom's like that. She's always said that she wouldn't be like her mother in certain things, but she surprises herself when she does the very things that she swore she would never do.

Jongnam definitely wants to be good. But the family can't be ensured about that.

And it's not like they can try her out for size. Marriage is not something like that.

[Guest cane-cutter]

It is a prejudice.

But I'm just saying it's much like physiognomy.

I'm basically saying the thing called stereotypes is not wrong like many people make it out to be. The word may have a bad connotation for you, but if you really think about it, stereotypes and prejudices are in place because they are right most of the time. (although sometimes wrong prejudice could be reinforced or become a victim of self-realizing prophecy...) That's why they are there in the first place.

They save us time and effort of having to go through each individual case in detail and allow us to make quick decisions.

Now, of course there is the minority who don't fall into such stereotypes.

That's when this gets problematic, but you always have to make a trade-off.

If you're an apple grower, you can closely inspect each apple for best quality.

Alternatively, you can just put all you grew in one box, after taking a sample and ensuring that the average quality of that sample is acceptable.

The decision is yours to make.

But I don't think the so-called 'prejudice' is always bad. It's valid a lot of times. In fact, it's valid most of the time.

I can't expect Suckhyeon's family to get to know Jongnam as closely as Suckhyeon does. They just have certain criteria, and Jongnam just doesn't meet them. I won't blame the family for that. Although by now, it would be good if anyone just gives in. Because Suckhyeon and Jongnam are definitely not joking about all this either. If they continue on this escalating warfare, everyone is going to be hurt in the end. Anyone can yield now, but I think it should have been Suckhyeon and Jongnam who should have given up in the first place. (and they knew this too. They just couldn't help it)

WTF?? People are not apples!

Stereotypes and prejudice can never be right in any situation. Do not try to justify them

[Guest donilpark]

WTF?? People are not apples!

Stereotypes and prejudice can never be right in any situation. Do not try to justify them

Yeah, well that's what most people think.

And I know that.

So I won't push my idea too much.

But you have to realize that you're using as much stereotype and prejudice as I or anyone else. It doesn't even have to be conscious.

(and obviously apple thing is just a thing called 'comparison' or 'analogy'. You surely didn't think I was saying "People are apples!" did you?)

[Guest professor97]

I really agree that there is a problem with adoption in Korea. In many ways, because Korean families don't want Korean orphans, it was lucky for my sister who couldn't have children. She adopted two Korean children, a son and a daughter. We love them as if they were born to my sister. We know very little about their parents, but they are wonderful children. But I know that there have been times that they wondered why they were given up for adoption. My sister has had them in Korean language programs and with other Korean adopted children so they don't forget their culture. We know that my niece's mother was mentally retarded and institutionalized and the state took her and immediately put her up for adoption. Patti has learning problems, but my sister has worked with her over the years and this year she graduates from high school and goes on to college. But it hurts Patti to know that if she had not been adopted by an American family she might have remained an orphan forever.

So Jongnam is from an unknown background, meaning she had parents that probably didn't have a family background either--it's a shame when a culture turns its back on innocent babies who did not choose to be born and who have to take the consequences for their parents' actions. I've noticed, however, that some Kdramas I've seen, like Yellow Handerkerchief, have had adoptions take place. Perhaps Korean society will open its arms to these little innocent victims in the future. Because bad children are not born--they come about because of neglect and bad treatment--humans are born innocent--it's a society that writes on the slate of who they will become.

Although this drama isn't real, some of the discussion about it makes me very, very sad. How sad that anyone would judge another as lacking because of the circumstances of their birth. No one controls to whom they are born. Please don't think I am objecting to anyone's opinion about this drama--I just feel sad that out there in the world there are innocent children paying the price for their parents' recklessness. At least Sukhyun and Jongnam are stepping up to the plate for their child--you have to admire that.

[Guest professor97]

I just want to say there is never a reason for prejudice or stereotyping--ever. Just when you think a certain group falls into a set behavior you'll find other members of that group that don't.

And I agree culture can influence behavior, but culture is not an unchanging thing. If it were then all the racism that pervaded America and still does to a certain extent would not have been changed. Cultural norms after all are there because a majority of people who live in that culture accept them--when the majority want it changed it changes. Just a few years ago in Korea In-Young (in MSMD) could have lost custody of her baby ti Kijong if she didn't get back with him. Korean women took control of that situation and had the laws changed about family registry. Cultural norms can change--and thank goodness they can.

[Guest cane-cutter]

Yeah, well that's what most people think.

And I know that.

So I won't push my idea too much.

But you have to realize that you're using as much stereotype and prejudice as I or anyone else. It doesn't even have to be conscious.

(and obviously apple thing is just a thing called 'comparison' or 'analogy'. You surely didn't think I was saying "People are apples!" did you?)

Your attempts to belittle are barely disguised...

My point is as clear as your attempt at analogy... which I might add has failed.

Prejudice and stereotypes are but a seed of bigotry, racism and classism... it should be cut out and discouraged everywhere and at all levels.

You try to use your analogy to say why waste time getting to know someone when you believe them to be of "bad apple" stock. Well I say people are not apples to be given a cursory glance and thrown away. A bad apple is rotten and cannot be rejuvenated... but a human-being however "rotten" has the inherent potential to blossom and surely deserves some chance at redemption.

What say you donilpark?

[addex3]

I just want to say there is never a reason for prejudice or stereotyping--ever. Just when you think a certain group falls into a set behavior you'll find other members of that group that don't.

I don't think donilpark is justifying prejudice or stereotype, but to deny they exist is like denying that the earth is round. Look at the movie, CRASH. It is good to try to overcome one's prejudice over things, but it is a daily struggle. It does exist. A society should evolve or it will become stagnant. Look at North Korea compared with South Korea.

I like the character of Jongnam. She is strong & independent. I blame more SK for not keeping it in his pants. Like you said, since the deed is done, it cannot be taken back.

[dandan1964]

It's like this.

You know how people say "I will never be like my mother/father" but when they grow up and have child, they act just the way their parents did?

I know my mom's like that. She's always said that she wouldn't be like her mother in certain things, but she surprises herself when she does the very things that she swore she would never do.

Did your mother live with her mother??? If she did that's why she's like her....

It doesn't matter what Jong-nam's birth parents are since she didn't grow up with them as role models...